--- Log opened Wed Apr 25 00:00:32 2012
20120425 00:29:31< boucman> bloodycoin: i'm going to bed now and the git clone failed, i'll try again tomorow, will you have created some early particle_engine skeleton at this point ?
20120425 00:30:13< bloodycoin> doubtly, I have lectures early in the morning
20120425 00:30:40< boucman> ok
20120425 00:30:42< boucman> np
20120425 00:43:41< boucman> ok, got to go, good night
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20120425 02:03:30< CIA-69> fendrin * r53990 /trunk/src/unit_types.cpp: Made [base_unit] work recursively.
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20120425 03:08:20< shadowm> fendrin: what are the implications of r53990?
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20120425 03:13:37< fendrin> You can stack base units.
20120425 03:14:30< shadowm> Still not sure what that means. Inheriting from a unit which inherits from another didn't work before?
20120425 03:15:09< fendrin> nope
20120425 03:15:14< fendrin> It couldn't.
20120425 03:15:20< fendrin> Have a look at the code.
20120425 03:15:28< fendrin> Around the line I changed it.
20120425 03:15:37< x-acto> hey guys, I was wondering the extent of debugmode in-game. can you add attacks or attributes?
20120425 03:16:13< fendrin> x-acto: You can use the lua interface on the commandline. That can be used to do anything.
20120425 03:20:01< x-acto> huh. thanks, fendrin; is this it? http://wiki.wesnoth.org/LuaWML:Units#wesnoth.add_modification
20120425 03:21:58< fendrin> x-acto: Yes, but the ingame commandline is rather dump.
20120425 03:22:41< fendrin> x-acto: On my TODO is to connect it to stdout/stdin thus text editors can be used to feed the line.
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20120425 03:23:23< x-acto> oh, nice. that would be pretty awesome.
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20120425 06:20:27< CIA-69> brilliand * r53991 /trunk/ (changelog src/replay_controller.cpp): 
20120425 06:20:27< CIA-69> In a replay, only call new_turn() for units on the side about to move
20120425 06:20:27< CIA-69> Fix for bug #19658
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20120425 10:22:49< CIA-69> brilliand * r53992 /trunk/ (2 files in 2 dirs): 
20120425 10:22:49< CIA-69> In HttT: Cliffs of Thoria, give the injured sergeant shared vision when he is discovered by the player
20120425 10:22:49< CIA-69> Fix for bug #19517
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20120425 10:28:06< CIA-69> brilliand * r53993 /branches/1.10/ (2 files in 2 dirs): backport r53992 to 1.10
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20120425 10:30:53< CIA-69> brilliand * r53994 /trunk/changelog: Moved changelog entry for r53992
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20120425 11:19:26< AI0867> zookeeper: would you be opposed to renaming [object]duration=level to duration=scenario? (technically, this already works, as the three options are "turn", "forever" and everything else)
20120425 11:19:34< AI0867> so it's mainly a matter of documenting it
20120425 11:20:20< zookeeper> AI0867, not at all
20120425 11:20:39< AI0867> (we could also add a real "level" value later on, which lasts until the unit levels up)
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20120425 13:42:53< AI0867> I see there are a number of helper functions regarding WML deprecation in src/wml_exception.hpp
20120425 13:43:10< AI0867> none of them help with "deprecated value" though
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20120425 13:48:52< AI0867> zookeeper: actually, currently, the default if no duration key is given is 'forever', but if a duration key is given, all 'other' values are equal to 'level'
20120425 13:48:59< AI0867> do you think that makes sense?
20120425 13:49:49-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 163 bugs, 330 feature requests, 17 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20120425 18:41:50< fendrin> wesbot: seen anonymissimus?
20120425 18:41:50< wesbot> fendrin: The person with the nick anonymissimus last spoke 7d 18h ago.  7d 16h ago they left with the message: Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 11.0/20120312181643]
20120425 18:41:57< fendrin> wesbot: seen anonymissimus_?
20120425 18:41:57< wesbot> fendrin: Sorry, I don't know of anonymissimus_.
20120425 18:42:07< fendrin> uh, that long no see.
20120425 18:44:35< boucman> hey all 
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20120425 18:46:22< fendrin> hi boucman
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20120425 18:55:31< Ivanovic> hi
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20120425 19:49:50-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 164 bugs, 331 feature requests, 17 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20120425 20:39:36< alink> " glibc >= 2.13 && SDL < 1.2.15 " is it a lot of wesnoth users ?
20120425 20:40:10 * alink is investigating that ugly do_reverse_memcpy_workaround_ hack
20120425 20:40:27< alink> wesbot: bug 17573
20120425 20:40:28< wesbot> Bug #17573  Assigned to: Jérémy Rosen <boucman>  Status: Fixed  Priority: 5 - Normal
20120425 20:40:31< wesbot> Summary: SDL_BlitSurface is duplicating the rightmost column when scrolling right
20120425 20:40:34< wesbot> Original submission: Scrolling right with keys/mouse causes the rightmost colu
20120425 20:40:37< wesbot> mn of the screen to be duplicated across the entire screen.The problem was d
20120425 20:40:40< wesbot> URL: https://gna.org/bugs/?17573
20120425 20:40:42< wesbot> Attached file (1st): https://gna.org/bugs/download.php?file_id=12685
20120425 20:43:27< alink> that hack seems very expensive for scrolling
20120425 20:44:12< alink> I think there is an extra copy of the whole screen and with probably 2 pixel format conversions (screen -> neutral -> screen)
20120425 20:44:39< alink> which cost varies depending of screen format (I think)
20120425 20:45:36< alink> here that scrolling step seems several times slower and cost a good extra 10ms
20120425 20:46:01< alink> when we have only 16ms by frame if we aim 60 fps
20120425 20:49:55< alink> I didn't really look the bug detail, since it seems to be an upstream problem possibly irrelevant now
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20120425 20:53:49< mordante> servus
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20120425 20:54:01< alink> hi mordante
20120425 20:54:07< mordante> hi alink 
20120425 20:54:21< mordante> alink, can't we extend the runtime check for the SDL version as well?
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20120425 20:55:21< alink> It already does that if I understand correctly
20120425 20:55:30< Ivanovic> hi mordante
20120425 20:55:37< mordante> hi Ivanovic 
20120425 20:55:48< mordante> alink, ah yes right
20120425 20:55:53< alink> mmh debian stable use SDL 1.2.14, not good :(
20120425 20:56:26< mordante> ah ok
20120425 20:56:34< Ivanovic> alink: they might use some patched version
20120425 20:56:51< mordante> probably they do
20120425 20:56:55< alink> ah indeed
20120425 20:57:17 * alink is now trying to find the used glibc
20120425 20:58:02< mordante> 2.11.3 it seems
20120425 20:58:39< alink> < 2.13, so it's good regarding that hack
20120425 20:59:27< mordante> and Debian testing has SDL 1.2.15
20120425 21:00:30< mordante> jamit, I don't mind a 90° rotation function, I just was puzzled by its name
20120425 21:00:48< mordante> jamit, if you implement it please do it properly and not a combination of flips
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20120425 21:00:57< alink> ah that bug report said that Fedora and gentoo were affected 1 year ago, hopefully it's fixed for them too
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20120425 21:01:36< mordante> well rather slow than buggy
20120425 21:01:48< alink> well if nobody run that code anymore, I can just let that ugly thing lives in its #idef
20120425 21:02:11< alink> mordante: yeah but I had another idea how to avoid the function call
20120425 21:02:21< mordante> alink, ah ok
20120425 21:03:13< alink> we copy the screen to avoid to redraw all the exes one by one. But if we do extra copy and work on this screen copy, then it may be slower
20120425 21:04:00< alink> in that case redrawing the hexes is possibly less pixels to blit (unless too many terrain layers)
20120425 21:05:19< alink> I also wanted to check how be balance that decision in the normal case
20120425 21:06:31< alink> because the animated terrains probably changed things there. We copy the screen but then redraw all the animated hexes, so in some case it's possibly wasteful 
20120425 21:08:16< mattsc> Hi, Crab_.  Did you see the discussion with shadowm about the recruitment aspect last night?  Around '20120424 23:17:19' log time.
20120425 21:08:26< Crab_> haven't seen it yet
20120425 21:08:27< mattsc> Is that the intended behavior or a bug?
20120425 21:09:45< Crab_> a bug
20120425 21:10:02< mattsc> Ok, thanks.  I'll file a report.
20120425 21:10:21< Crab_> note that with Akihara accepted into gsoc, that bug would be dealt with during the project - i.e. I expect that the new recruitment implementation would not have this particular bug.
20120425 21:10:29< Crab_> still, bug report would be useful.
20120425 21:10:37< mattsc> ok
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20120425 21:16:42< mattsc> I'll also add a temporary note to the wiki page
20120425 21:18:14< alink> when reading Linus comments on this fedora glibc bug: "..since I (obviously) always compile my own kernels.."  lol
20120425 21:23:10< mordante> I would have never expected that of him, I somehow expect him to run Windows... :-P
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20120425 21:34:40< mordante> I'm off again, bye
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20120425 22:54:27< alink> Maybe the word "open source" should be more visible on the front page, there is only indirect indications about it.
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20120425 22:54:58< alink> a link to source, and an hyperlink about "free"
20120425 22:56:05< zookeeper> yeah, i guess it could say "free, open source" rather than just "free". but then again i don't know if it's that relevant to anyone who isn't already aware of it, really.
20120425 22:56:45< shadowm> The sources are linked in the front page.
20120425 22:56:48< alink> well, it can make more people aware of it ;)
20120425 22:57:26< alink> there is so many young windows player who doesn't know what open source is
20120425 22:57:53< alink> but, right, most of them will not care
20120425 22:58:29< alink> shadowm: link to source, is different from GPL etc..
20120425 22:59:08< shadowm> I take it when you said "a link to source" you meant a link to the OSD then?
20120425 22:59:39< shadowm> or the OSI's site in general
20120425 23:00:22< alink> no I was talking about the link to the source files.
20120425 23:00:35< shadowm> yeah, that I said we already do.
20120425 23:01:06< shadowm> it even comes with a size estimate for convenience.
20120425 23:01:58< alink> ok I was just saying that this "source" link and "free" link where the only (indirect) clues about being open-source
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20120425 23:03:08< shadowm> I'm really more concerned about the lack of a starting guide for code contributors than the frontpage propaganda, myself.
20120425 23:03:41< shadowm> "Join Us" leads to a currently orthogonal section.
20120425 23:05:34< alink> I was not aiming for open-source propaganda. More about interesting new coders
20120425 23:06:30< shadowm> Skilled coders will likely equate the 'Free' and the link to gnu.org with open-source (inaccuracies aside). ;)
20120425 23:07:34< shadowm> Right now it feels like most new players regard Wesnoth developers as a mysterious closed group regardless of the availability of the sources, but maybe that's just me.
20120425 23:08:08< alink> ok, new young coders, but agreed trying to interest them to coding is a more "propaganda", and less for the project itself
20120425 23:08:20< alink> s/a//
20120425 23:08:59< shadowm> I'm also unsure to what degree unexperienced backend coders can be useful nowadays.
20120425 23:09:17< alink> well the homepage text is not for wesnoth players, it's for visitors discovering the thing
20120425 23:09:47< alink> shadowm: I was not very experienced when I joined the project
20120425 23:10:08< shadowm> (i.e. most of the game engine has been moving towards advanced programming techniques since I joined, and it tends to be overwhelming even for me)
20120425 23:10:27< alink> but indeed the project is bigger now
20120425 23:13:00< alink> maybe just a logo?
20120425 23:13:16< alink> what is freegamealliance again ?
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20120425 23:16:05< alink> and almost 1000 flattr, but no idea how significant it is
20120425 23:19:21< shadowm> mordante: okay, I can see why the editor and game screenshot functions don't use the png writing functions
20120425 23:19:49< shadowm> it's because they are in a really obscure place called src/tools/exploder_utils.cpp :/
20120425 23:20:25< shadowm> and since it involves libpng calls I'm not going to touch that myself. I had enough of that crap back in the day.
20120425 23:21:55< alink> do you think a lot of people build the tools ?
20120425 23:22:08< shadowm> most likely not.
20120425 23:22:19< alink> do packagers do it?
20120425 23:22:39< shadowm> I'd be interested in checking whether they work fine on big-endian platforms since my libpng client application had issues with that.
20120425 23:23:04< alink> oh endianess issue, brrrr
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20120425 23:23:46< shadowm> the comments in exploder_utils.cpp suggest the person who wrote this might have been better aware of how to deal with that than I was.
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20120425 23:24:20< shadowm> alink: I think it's unlikely that they build them since they aren't even in the default target set for scons and cmake
20120425 23:25:14< shadowm> (e.g. it's necessary to enable ENABLE_TOOLS for cmake, and pass cutter and exploder as targets in scons)
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20120425 23:25:45< alink> yeah but maybe there is a package wesnoth-tools, like we had wesnoth-editor at some point (I think)
20120425 23:25:49< shadowm> These are also not documented in-tree.
20120425 23:26:14< shadowm> The Debian wesnoth-tools package only includes the platform-independent stuff from data/tools, I think.
20120425 23:26:31< shadowm> http://packages.debian.org/sid/all/wesnoth-1.10-tools/filelist
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20120425 23:26:54< alink> ah debian still has a transitional package wesnoth-editor
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20120425 23:29:12< shadowm> Moving this code from tools/ to the main units would probably also change a dependency.
20120425 23:30:05< shadowm> In Debian, for example, it'd make the libpng development files mandatory; currently they aren't (libpng itself is, through SDL_image) AFAIK.
20120425 23:30:29< alink> but libpng seems to be a reasonable dependency (unless version problem) 
20120425 23:30:36< shadowm> That's not a very big deal given that I apparently cannot remove the libpng development files without also removing Pango and Cairo's, but one never knows...
20120425 23:32:01< shadowm> In other words, lots of work that might originate lots of complaints later on. I'll pass.
20120425 23:32:55< alink> yeah, that's also why I never tried too, and instead added all kind of waning about screenshot size :)
20120425 23:33:04< alink> *warnings
20120425 23:33:42< shadowm> mordante: but yeah, maybe this is something you'd like to try once you are done playing with handheld devices.
20120425 23:33:47< alink> in the past you could silently fill your disk just because of some hotkey/chat bug
20120425 23:34:15< alink> he plays with handheld devices ?
20120425 23:34:31< shadowm> Optimizing stuff for Ivanovic on the pandora.
20120425 23:34:46< alink> ah ok, good thing
20120425 23:34:50< shadowm> Anyway, the screenshot size warning would still be valid given our default terrain graphics.
20120425 23:35:19< shadowm> Surely a gorgeous, detailed 80x80 map would give a multi-megabyte PNG file.
20120425 23:35:51< alink> yeah but you have a popup about it, and its size
20120425 23:36:19< alink> mmh after the action though
20120425 23:36:58< shadowm> Well, hopefully no-one will run Wesnoth with less than 50 MiB of free disk space.
20120425 23:37:29< alink> I think our WML cache + saves is already not lightweight too
20120425 23:38:01< shadowm> Depends. Somehow my 1.11 (carried over from 1.9) WML cache grew up to 197 MiB.
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20120425 23:38:16< shadowm> I just deleted it and started fresh, and it's only 500 KiB after running the test scenario.
20120425 23:38:31< shadowm> 916 KiB on the titlescreen.
20120425 23:39:03< alink> my old one is 100MB
20120425 23:39:40< alink> but with some uncompressed saves
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20120425 23:40:26< alink> ah and a 55MB addon :)
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20120425 23:41:05< alink> the cache itself is 36MB
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20120425 23:41:56< alink> anyway, need to go, gn 
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20120425 23:42:36< shadowm> It seems Wesnoth could use a mechanism to delete old cache files.
20120425 23:43:13< fendrin> shadowm: I could also enable multiple inherits. 
20120425 23:43:35< shadowm> fendrin: ?
20120425 23:44:00< shadowm> Anyway: http://pastebin.com/tY0rUmpu
20120425 23:44:27< fendrin> shadowm: I made [base_unit] considering ancestors of the parent as well, you remember?
20120425 23:45:05< shadowm> the 1.10.2 cache itself is 12 MiB there
20120425 23:45:18< fendrin> But still only the first [base_unit] is considered. 
20120425 23:45:39< shadowm> there's a similar tendency for other versions (1.10.0 shows up as 37 MiB for some reason)
20120425 23:46:07< shadowm> so this is pretty much a pointless waste of space
20120425 23:46:40< shadowm> fendrin: Not sure why anyone (other than C++ programmers) would want a unit to inherit from more than one unit type.
20120425 23:47:30< shadowm> And given than unit types cannot be seen as different classes (they should all be seen as derived classes of the same class), that notion doesn't really make much sense.
20120425 23:47:45< shadowm> *different independent classes
20120425 23:49:43< shadowm> Ah right, every version's cache should in fact be somewhat smaller than what I have.
20120425 23:49:55< shadowm> I forgot the cache code creates different files for each _SVN revision_.
20120425 23:50:48< shadowm> What ideally should take place here is that the manager checks for 1 month old cache files for other versions and deletes them automatically.
20120425 23:51:35< shadowm> I don't know if this could cause problems when using XDG layout.
20120425 23:55:20< shadowm> I guess I'll write a proof of concept for discussion later.
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--- Log closed Thu Apr 26 00:00:38 2012