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20120509 01:49:50-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 171 bugs, 335 feature requests, 16 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20120509 08:30:43-!- Topic for #wesnoth-dev: 171 bugs, 335 feature requests, 16 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20120509 08:30:43-!- Topic set by wesbot [~wesbot@asteria.debian.or.at] [Wed May  9 01:49:49 2012]
20120509 08:30:43[Users #wesnoth-dev]
20120509 08:30:43[ _vdn           ] [ CIA-22         ] [ Gallaecio ] [ janebot    ] [ matthiaskrgr  ] [ Soliton] 
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20120509 08:30:43[ Akihara        ] [ ejls           ] [ happygrue_] [ koan       ] [ neXyon        ] [ Upthorn] 
20120509 08:30:43[ ancestral      ] [ elias          ] [ Ingeniumed] [ leonid     ] [ Rhonda        ] [ vcap   ] 
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20120509 08:30:43[ Blueblaze      ] [ Espreon        ] [ Ivanovic  ] [ loonycyborg] [ shadowm_laptop] [ wesbot ] 
20120509 08:30:43[ chpln          ] [ esr            ] [ iwaim     ] [ LordNasty  ] [ shikadibot    ] [ yann   ] 
20120509 08:30:43[ ChrisOelmueller] [ fendrin        ] [ jamit     ] [ LovCAPONE  ] [ Smar          ] [ {V}    ] 
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20120509 08:30:48-!- Channel #wesnoth-dev created Tue Jan 27 06:28:41 2009
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20120509 13:18:20< Akihara> hi Crab_ :)
20120509 13:19:14< Akihara> just to say that i just upload the third version of the patch :)
20120509 13:19:24< Akihara> if you have any remarks, just say ^^
20120509 13:21:00< Crab_> ok, thanks, I'll take a look
20120509 13:21:33< Akihara> i'm not to sure concerning "chance to poison"... if it might be in an other place for example 
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20120509 13:46:48< Crab_> Akihara: +is_poisoned_before_attack = (!bc->get_defender_stats().is_poisoned && bc->get_attacker_stats().poisons ? false : true);      - name doesn't correspond to value.
20120509 13:47:06< Crab_> Akihara: also, there's no need for ternary operator here
20120509 13:47:31< Crab_> Akihara: but the main point is that 'is poisoned before attack?' doesn't depend on attacker.
20120509 13:47:32< Akihara> it's true :P
20120509 13:48:33< Akihara> so, "can_be_poisoned" it's probably better
20120509 13:48:43< Crab_> no need to - later, bc->get_defender_combatant().poisoned would be 0.0 anyway, if attacker can't poison
20120509 13:49:00< Crab_> so, it'd be  avg_losses += 0.0 if attacker can't poison
20120509 13:49:41< Crab_> also, 'if (!is_poisoned_before_attack) value += 1;' is probably unnecessary
20120509 13:50:21< Akihara> i was thinking that too...
20120509 13:51:41< Akihara> so i just need to have avg_losses += poison_value*2*bc->get_def_combatant().poisoned if the unit is not poisoned at the beginning, right?
20120509 13:51:51< Crab_> yes, like this
20120509 13:52:26< Akihara> okay, i will cheak the result :)
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20120509 14:22:35< Akihara> Crab_: well, i don't know why.. but it's worse
20120509 14:29:57< Akihara> units don't spread poison around anymore...
20120509 14:36:31< Crab_> then add logging to see what happens
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20120509 14:36:56< Crab_> i.e., there might be another related bug
20120509 14:37:56< Crab_> i.e. check if bc->get_def_combatant().poisoned contains what you think it should contain
20120509 14:38:18< Crab_> then, check the old and new value of avg_losses
20120509 14:38:32< Crab_> since our intent was to add stuff to average losses
20120509 14:38:36< Crab_> let's check if that part is ok
20120509 14:47:12< Akihara> well, i have to go, but i will check all of these :)
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20120509 15:12:20< Crab_> hi, Ayne
20120509 15:12:37< Crab_> how it's going with the mini-campaign?
20120509 15:13:17< Ayne> hey
20120509 15:13:46< Ayne> i've got something that runs, with a few minor problems that are probably due to me missing a line or something
20120509 15:14:05< Ayne> haven't tried it over then network yet though
20120509 15:17:37< Crab_> note: you can run two copies of wesnoth locally on the same pc, and play an mp game on a single pc, with an official mp server or with a local mp server
20120509 15:17:57< Crab_> also note that it's easy to find help in the forums wrt WML.
20120509 15:18:28< Crab_> i.e. if you've got something that doesn't run, show it in the forums (if it's small), most likely someone will point out to those 'line or something'
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20120509 15:41:38< CIA-22> espreon * r54133 /trunk/po/wesnoth-dw/fi.po: Updated the Finnish translation.
20120509 15:42:24< CIA-22> espreon * r54134 /branches/1.10/po/wesnoth-dw/fi.po: Updated the Finnish translation.
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20120509 16:10:02< Akihara> Crab_: around?
20120509 16:10:07< Crab_> yes
20120509 16:11:36< Akihara> :) so, i looked... and my formula is correct. But it seems that we have a negative rating value at the end...
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20120509 16:12:38< Crab_> Akihara: that is not important at first, as long as your  poison_value*2*bc->get_def_combatant().poisoned is >0
20120509 16:13:21< Crab_> If we have two enemy units, in equal condition apart from one of them being slightly damaged and poisoned,
20120509 16:13:51< Crab_> then, the first non-poisoned unit should get that += poison_value**bc->get_def_combatant().poisoned , while the other poisoned unit won't get it
20120509 16:14:06< Crab_> so, the question is, what happens with the attack ratings in this case
20120509 16:14:12< Crab_> both end up negative?
20120509 16:14:16< Akihara> yes
20120509 16:14:30< Crab_> which units you are testing with?
20120509 16:14:38< Crab_> what's the unit type of attacker/defender?
20120509 16:14:52< Akihara> i'm testing with your poison test in te small arena
20120509 16:16:47< Akihara> drake warden
20120509 16:16:47< worduk> greetings everyone
20120509 16:17:06< Akihara> and orcish assassin
20120509 16:19:58< Crab_> Akihara: ok, I see. so, the units do no attacks at all?
20120509 16:21:01< Akihara> not at all
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20120509 16:23:59< Crab_> what happens without your changes? they were doing attacks before?
20120509 16:24:05< Akihara> yes
20120509 16:24:25< Akihara> they loved to poison the same unit, but they did attacks
20120509 16:25:02< Crab_> are you setting the average losses for the defender?
20120509 16:25:16< Crab_> or for the attacker (which would actually penaltize the attack)  ?
20120509 16:25:26< Crab_> it's not clear from the patch without context
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20120509 16:25:47< Crab_> please check avg_losses vs avg_damage_inflicted
20120509 16:26:18< Crab_> it might be that avg_damage_inflicted is actually what we want to +=
20120509 16:26:46< Akihara> i was looking at that
20120509 16:27:33< Crab_> and?
20120509 16:28:08< Akihara> it's probably for the attacker
20120509 16:28:25< Crab_> good, then it's not correct
20120509 16:28:50< Crab_> and that's why the game though avg_losses to be 16 more than they really are, when attacking unpoisoned units
20120509 16:29:01< Crab_> thus pushing the rating to be negative
20120509 16:29:07< Akihara> yes 
20120509 16:29:26< Crab_> let's try to fix it, by using avg_damage_inflicted
20120509 16:30:14< Crab_> also note that there might be further bugs (i.e., what is the chance to poison a unit which dies as the result of the attack? 0 or 1 ? )
20120509 16:30:45< Crab_> if 1, then we must substract the kill probability from poison probability to get the real 'poisoned but not killed' probablity
20120509 16:30:48< Crab_> if 0, all's ok.
20120509 16:57:04< Akihara> well, it's better with avg_damage_inflicted
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20120509 17:39:25< anonymissimus> Ivanovic: can we perhaps make a 1.10 release soon ? there was another forum post about my $owner_side fix
20120509 17:41:05< anonymissimus> Ayne: note that there are "A simple campaign" which is a minimum campaign downloadable from the addons server, and "A simple MP campaign" which I created for my own testing purposes if you need something already working
20120509 17:41:53< anonymissimus> the ladder is only in the wesnoth UMC repo so you can get it only via svn since it's not meant for normal wml authors
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20120509 18:33:16< Ayne> anonymissimus: I will have a look at those, mine works but more than one doesn't hurt, thank you
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20120509 18:36:16< Crab_> Ayne: note that while it's perfectly ok to look at other stuff, I would prefer you to have your own mini-campaign (i.e. with you picking map, unit names, etc) - it'll feel more like 'at home' there 
20120509 18:36:40< Crab_> we'll have to expand it later, during the project
20120509 18:36:46< Crab_> to try various transition rules
20120509 18:38:16< Ayne> crab: I do have my own campaign, though it's very basic. But I think having a look at another campaign meant for testing rather than playing might help me expand mine a bit
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20120509 18:40:13< Crab_> definitely
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20120509 19:00:38< anonymissimus> Crab_: it's just so that it's much harder and time-consuming to make a campaign up from scratch than to copy and understand another one, especially the stuff in _main.cfg and such which isn't related to the project in particular
20120509 19:01:10< anonymissimus> given that basically all of those confusing how-to-create this and that tutorials are out of date
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20120509 19:13:04< Ivanovic> anonymissimus: ah, timing is always so difficult there...
20120509 19:13:14< Ivanovic> i could run a pot-update this weekend to see if strings were added/changed
20120509 19:13:21< Crab_> anonymissimus: yes, you're right
20120509 19:13:30< Ivanovic> if this is not the case, i'd call it a string freeze and try to release next week thursday or friday
20120509 19:14:13< Ivanovic> fine by you, anonymissimus?
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20120509 19:26:01< boucman> wesbot: seen bloodycoin
20120509 19:26:01< wesbot> boucman: The person with the nick bloodycoin 2d 6h ago they left with the message: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
20120509 19:26:07< boucman> hmm
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20120509 19:43:23< fendrin> hello
20120509 19:44:46< Crab_> hi, fendrin
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20120509 19:57:30< anonymissimus> Ivanovic: yes
20120509 19:59:07< anonymissimus> hi fendrin
20120509 19:59:39< Ivanovic> anonymissimus: if there are string changes i might release 1.10.3 during the pentecost weekend
20120509 20:00:02< Ivanovic> Espreon: in case you want to be late with getting changes in: don't commit them over the next days!
20120509 20:01:04< Espreon> Oh, all right.
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20120509 20:05:04< fendrin> hi Crab_, Ivanovic, anonymissimus, Espreon, csarmi
20120509 20:06:10< Espreon> 'Ello.
20120509 20:09:23< anonymissimus> fendrin: I'm ready for some eclipse CDT help; IIRC you said something about that you use an older version since the newer one doesn't work
20120509 20:13:12< csarmi> hello fendrin
20120509 20:13:53< anonymissimus> (there's also other questions though, for instance, why can't I set the resolution above 1024x768, or why does installing the proprietary ATI drivers fail (possibly related to the first issue))
20120509 20:14:22< anonymissimus> or why does my diskette drive not seem to make any mucks...
20120509 20:14:40< anonymissimus> even though it works in xp, so the hardware is alright
20120509 20:15:51-!- Ayne [~Ayne@cpc2-sgyl34-2-0-cust493.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20120509 20:16:18< fendrin> anonymissimus: Diskette drives can be used with a commandline tool. At least the last time I dealed with diskettes (are we talking about those 1.44 MB things, right?) that was the best way to handle them. I think mdtools was their name.
20120509 20:16:45< fendrin> anonymissimus: I am using the current version of eclipse now, it's bug fixed enough.
20120509 20:18:02< fendrin> anonymissimus: apt-get install fdutils
20120509 20:19:49< anonymissimus> fendrin: yes, 1.44 floppy
20120509 20:20:03< fendrin> anonymissimus: Yeah, use the fdutils, they work fine.
20120509 20:20:38< anonymissimus> okay, so the according software or driver is no longer installed by defaukt nowadays it seems
20120509 20:21:09< fendrin> Well, maybe modern linux Desktop environments do have a nice gui frontend instead.
20120509 20:21:21< fendrin> or most likely they have 
20120509 20:21:46< fendrin> The driver is part of the kernel and still installed with every distribution.
20120509 20:22:39< anonymissimus> well, it still just isnt mounted when I click on it in nautilus
20120509 20:23:26< anonymissimus> thats the kind of stuff driving me away, really
20120509 20:24:38< anonymissimus> but thats only a minor issue; at least the soundcard and the cd/dvd drives work (that wasn't always the case)
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20120509 20:27:05< fendrin> anonymissimus: Indeed, at the time I switched to linux I had to handcraft a kernel being able to drive my sound and isdn card.
20120509 20:27:36< fendrin> There is some serious progress noticable in the last 15 years.
20120509 20:29:01< anonymissimus> umm, on my other pc I've also 12.04 and the soundcard, the cd rom, cd rom writer and the floppy drive as well don't work
20120509 20:29:28< fendrin> anonymissimus: And you had to put the dma, irc, and io values of the isa cards into the kernel config.
20120509 20:29:48< anonymissimus> although synaptic was able to access the cd rom so I suspect that may rather be me not having installed something neccessary for mounting them etc
20120509 20:30:09< fendrin> Maybe.
20120509 20:30:21< fendrin> But let's work on the current machine first.
20120509 20:30:37< anonymissimus> they are both current :)
20120509 20:30:57< fendrin> I mean the one you work on at the moment.
20120509 20:31:23< fendrin> I suspected them to be both modern, older hardware is often no problem.
20120509 20:31:43< fendrin> You got everything working except the ati driver?
20120509 20:32:38< anonymissimus> the other one has old hardware
20120509 20:33:43< anonymissimus> well...the floppy doesn't work and the ATI driver/setting the resolution
20120509 20:34:07< fendrin> Please open a shell, choose either: xterm, konsole or gnome-terminal.
20120509 20:34:44< fendrin> anonymissimus: The driver is not the one being responsible for the resolution.
20120509 20:35:15< fendrin> You don't have a driver gui tool.
20120509 20:35:25< anonymissimus> i have shells open
20120509 20:35:38< fendrin> Please pastebin the output of "lspci"
20120509 20:37:12< anonymissimus> fendrin: http://pastebin.com/SCtHBQ3v
20120509 20:37:40< fendrin> 01:05.0 VGA compatible controller: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] nee ATI RS880 [Radeon HD 4200]
20120509 20:38:48< fendrin> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fglrx-installer/+bug/988595
20120509 20:39:15< fendrin> Please execute "apt-get remove --purge fglrx"
20120509 20:40:47< fendrin> anonymissimus: Does the command also want to remove the package "fglrx-updates"?
20120509 20:41:24< anonymissimus> Package fglrx is not installed, so not removed
20120509 20:41:36< fendrin> okay, the driver is simply missing.
20120509 20:41:51< fendrin> Get it installed with "apt-get install fglrx-updates".
20120509 20:41:52< anonymissimus> no
20120509 20:42:24< fendrin> You installed with the shell script from amd's website?
20120509 20:43:36< anonymissimus> ?? I didn't use any shell script
20120509 20:43:47< anonymissimus> or something form amd's website
20120509 20:44:01< fendrin> Okay
20120509 20:44:16< fendrin> Did it work? I mean the apt-get install ...
20120509 20:44:22< anonymissimus> I dunno
20120509 20:44:41< fendrin> Then give me a pastebin of the output please.
20120509 20:45:09< anonymissimus> doesn't look like it
20120509 20:45:33< anonymissimus> I already shut down the shell for a reboot sry
20120509 20:45:43< fendrin> No problem.
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20120509 20:52:34 * fendrin feels that anonymissimus is stuck on the commandline without X.
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20120509 20:56:06< loonycyborg> fendrin: Aren't you supposed to use opensource driver for radeon already?
20120509 20:56:26< anonymissimus> fendrin: now, that's a nice shot into one's own foot; after the reboot the resolution is set to a valu unsupported by the monitor
20120509 20:57:12< anonymissimus> so I suppose I need to login from the live cd and repair it by settign it manually or undoing the install...
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20120509 20:59:55< loonycyborg> anonymissimus: Do you have an old display? That resolution stuff should be handled automatically.
20120509 21:01:34< fendrin> loonycyborg: Well, yeah. On my system they don't work correctly. I need to go with the proprietary ones. I thought anonymissimus was already using the open source one automatically and trying the ati ones is a reasonable next step.
20120509 21:02:15< fendrin> anonymissimus: You can boot into the system without X and repair everything on the shell. Ubuntu gives you a boot menu entry for this. It is something like "safe mode" or "rescue mode".
20120509 21:02:25< vultraz> wesbot: seen mordante
20120509 21:02:25< wesbot> vultraz: The person with the nick mordante last spoke 22h 56m ago.  22h 55m ago was here and on the channel #wesnoth-de with the message: Quit: Leaving
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20120509 21:03:41< fendrin> anonymissimus: There is also an option to detect working X settings from the "failsave" boot method.
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20120509 21:31:10< mordante> servus
20120509 21:31:24< mordante> vultraz, you were looking for me
20120509 21:32:53< vultraz> as yes. well, artisticdude had a gui2 suggestion/wish, and I thought I'd pass it along
20120509 21:33:25< vultraz> [05:56]	artisticdude	vultraz: I don't suppose there is any way in GUI2 you could create moveable "widgets" that you could move around on a grid with the cursor?
20120509 21:33:27< vultraz> [05:56]	artisticdude	Like an actual inventory, where you can select items and move them around to different slots with the cursor.
20120509 21:35:28< mordante> vultraz, I /might/ add it as some point, but after gui2 is finished
20120509 21:35:54< mordante> I'm not against it, just has a very low priority
20120509 21:36:39< fendrin> vultraz: Replacing the mouse cursor for some drag and drop like behavior is doable.
20120509 21:42:15< CIA-22> mordante * r54135 /trunk/src/gui/widgets/ (pane.cpp pane.hpp): 
20120509 21:42:15< CIA-22> Add an accesor for the grid of a pane's items.
20120509 21:42:15< CIA-22> The code is used to experiment with a different approach of the
20120509 21:42:15< CIA-22> implementation of a listbox
20120509 21:42:19< CIA-22> mordante * r54136 /trunk/src/gui/dialogs/ (addon_list.cpp addon_list.hpp): (log message trimmed)
20120509 21:42:19< CIA-22> Implement the expand and collapse button.
20120509 21:42:19< CIA-22> The items in the adon list can now be expanded and collapsed, by
20120509 21:42:19< CIA-22> default the description is collapsed.
20120509 21:42:19< CIA-22> The expanding and collapsing causes a resize event not handled by the
20120509 21:42:19< CIA-22> pane causing a huge slowdown. This will needs some love.
20120509 21:42:20< CIA-22> The code is used to experiment with a different approach of the
20120509 21:43:08< mordante> I'm off again, bye
20120509 21:43:14< anonymissimus> loonycyborg: no, for a monitor, it's rather new I'd say
20120509 21:43:18-!- mordante [~mordante@wesnoth/developer/mordante] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20120509 21:43:56< loonycyborg> anonymissimus: Ideally a driver should use EDID to set the resolution.
20120509 21:44:27< loonycyborg> I have nvidia card and both nvidia-drivers and nouveau can properly get EDID
20120509 21:45:36< anonymissimus> oh yeah, what a lot should work automatically but it just doesn't
20120509 21:46:07< anonymissimus> fendrin: ok well, I'm in the boot menu
20120509 21:46:29< anonymissimus> I need you guiding me or I need to google
20120509 21:47:01< anonymissimus> (which is why one needs at least 2 computers, one for getting help if the other one doesn't work)
20120509 21:48:18< fendrin> What does the boot menu offer you?
20120509 21:50:43< anonymissimus> fendrin: the only suited entry seems something with (recovery mode) at the end
20120509 21:51:06< anonymissimus> below hte normal entry to boot into ubuntu
20120509 21:52:19< anonymissimus> fendrin: i'm in a root shell
20120509 21:53:47< fendrin> anonymissimus: please go into /var/log
20120509 21:54:19< loonycyborg> And pastebin /var/log/Xorg.log or whatever it's called :P
20120509 21:54:34< fendrin> and pastebin the contents of Xorg.0.log
20120509 21:54:36< fendrin> yepp
20120509 21:56:58< anonymissimus> fendrin: the failsave thing doesn't seem to work; it says no screens found or something and drops to hte previous menu
20120509 21:58:57< anonymissimus> how do I get the content displayed
20120509 22:00:08< anonymissimus> ah wait - how do get get it copy-pasted :)
20120509 22:00:52< loonycyborg> That's a fair question. I generally use vim or nano to do those tasks.
20120509 22:01:04< loonycyborg> But I never had to copy/paste it.
20120509 22:01:26< loonycyborg> iirc there are comman-line tools to pastebin stuff.
20120509 22:01:34< loonycyborg> *command-line
20120509 22:02:47< anonymissimus> the last few entries say cannot get EDID-information for CRT1
20120509 22:03:16< anonymissimus> I have a TFT
20120509 22:04:24< fendrin> Is it connected via vga or dvi?
20120509 22:04:27< anonymissimus> what's even stranger is that I recall ubuntu 12.04 detecting my monitor correctly at least once; I don't recall whether it was a previous install I screwed for other reasons or a live boot
20120509 22:04:31< anonymissimus> vga
20120509 22:04:43< fendrin> yeah
20120509 22:04:59< anonymissimus> I also could set the resolution to a higher value at that time IIRC
20120509 22:05:02< fendrin> That isn't working for me on my ati card as well.
20120509 22:05:29< fendrin> dvi does fine.
20120509 22:05:52< anonymissimus> hte board doesn't have a dvi connector whatsoever
20120509 22:06:00< fendrin> I see.
20120509 22:06:29< loonycyborg> Get a videocard :P
20120509 22:06:39< loonycyborg> That is a separate one.
20120509 22:06:42 * shadowm really needs to talk to mordante directly.
20120509 22:06:46< anonymissimus> that is not a solution
20120509 22:07:01< anonymissimus> that is why Linux is a bad operating system :)
20120509 22:07:05< loonycyborg> (hopefully that mobo has AGP or 8x PC Express)
20120509 22:07:14< loonycyborg> *PCI Express
20120509 22:07:18< fendrin> anonymissimus: please execute "aticonfig --query-moniter"
20120509 22:07:20< anonymissimus> yes it has
20120509 22:07:26< fendrin> monitor
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20120509 22:08:15< loonycyborg> That has nothing to do with linux. I just think that onboard videocards are perversion :P
20120509 22:09:25< fendrin> loonycyborg: Yeah, onboard videocards know everything about perversion, addon ones know more about gaming :-)
20120509 22:12:00< fendrin> anonymissimus: One possible next step is to write a Xorg.conf that does the trick.
20120509 22:12:00< OpposingFranz> So I've made some changes to the credits rolling in the about screen: It no longer just _adds_ a delay of 20 ms, but _clamps_ to the configured display delay (which currently seems to be hardcoded to 20 anyway). So the credits should feel less jittery, or that's the theory. Unfortunately I have trouble detecting any difference; not sure whether I've just got used to the original jittering 
20120509 22:12:00< OpposingFranz> or there really is no difference (perhaps it was only in the Debug version?). I'll submit a patch, and perhaps people can give me feedback whether it makes a difference for them. At least it shouldn't get any _worse_.
20120509 22:12:29< anonymissimus> loonycyborg: an extra video card is not needed for anything like wesnoth or office or compilation tasks
20120509 22:12:42< anonymissimus> only for video games
20120509 22:12:42< OpposingFranz> I also made the scroll_speed (and the offset) a float, so you can change the speed more smoothly.
20120509 22:12:47< fendrin> anonymissimus: That can be done by executing: "aticonfig –initial" and then "aticonfig --resolution=0,1280x1024"
20120509 22:13:17< OpposingFranz> anonymissimus (and openCL ;-)
20120509 22:13:59< anonymissimus> loonycyborg: and of course, I usually do not want to be forced to get long help in an irc channel just to be able to set my resolution to a sensible value such as windows allows me in few seconds
20120509 22:14:11< loonycyborg> anonymissimus: But the point is that you either have redundant AGP/PCI Express slot or redundant video card. That bothers my OCD :P
20120509 22:14:36< OpposingFranz> oh, and building wesnoth takes as long as does the Linux kernel :-P
20120509 22:15:02< OpposingFranz> loony: there are solutions that attempt to make you use both cards
20120509 22:16:08< fendrin> anonymissimus: Both operating systems have their advantages.
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20120509 22:16:26< anonymissimus> fendrin: the output of aticonfig --query-monitor told me to put that command and I did yes
20120509 22:16:39< fendrin> which one?
20120509 22:16:46< anonymissimus> --initial
20120509 22:16:49< fendrin> cool
20120509 22:17:26< fendrin> did you also do the resolution one? You must of course enter your hardware resolution there. You can add more resolutions separated by ","
20120509 22:18:38< anonymissimus> hm I don't know which ones it supports
20120509 22:18:58< anonymissimus> the software (windows) always detects it correctly
20120509 22:19:23< fendrin> Does your monitor has a label?
20120509 22:20:38< fendrin> At least you should know the dimension, is it 4:3 or 16:9 or 16:10 or more_wired:more_wired2
20120509 22:20:40< fendrin> ?
20120509 22:21:04< shadowm> why anyone would willingly use an AMD IGP or GPU is beyond me
20120509 22:21:20< fendrin> You say it
20120509 22:21:32< fendrin> nvidia and intel worked ways better
20120509 22:21:44< fendrin> my next card is for sure nvidia again.
20120509 22:21:51< fendrin> but things got much better lately.
20120509 22:22:00< OpposingFranz> works better for what? I'm happy with my 6870
20120509 22:22:18< fendrin> Dual Monitor setup is a pain here.
20120509 22:22:45< fendrin> Nvidia did it more or less out of the box without much problems.
20120509 22:23:48< anonymissimus> fendrin: : well, it seems it's fine now; I can also set the resolution like I should be able to
20120509 22:23:58< fendrin> :-)
20120509 22:24:13< fendrin> floppy was still a problem?
20120509 22:24:32< anonymissimus> the only problem is that it needed this IRC session and that I wouldn't be able to repeat it so I need to save the log somewhere
20120509 22:24:46< anonymissimus> yes, but I'm not very motivated to solve it atm
20120509 22:25:21< anonymissimus> I hardly ever need it probably and if I do I can still escape with windows
20120509 22:26:14< fendrin> anonymissimus: Well, just yell if you need further information.
20120509 22:28:01< fendrin> anonymissimus: And we can have a look at the other system as well. All I need for first scouting is the output of "lspci".
20120509 22:28:09< fendrin> And a list of non working items.
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20120509 22:31:23< anonymissimus> fendrin: well, the soundcard would be nice to get working
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20120509 22:32:32< shadowm> I haven't had a computer with a soundcard in more than a decade.
20120509 22:32:58< loonycyborg> Even an integral one?
20120509 22:33:04< shadowm> That doesn't count.
20120509 22:33:35 * anonymissimus is guessing shadowm 's Linux installations have always been working perfectly intially
20120509 22:33:45< shadowm> No, you are quite wrong.
20120509 22:33:56< loonycyborg> That reminds me that mobos without integral soundcards are even more rare than without videocards.
20120509 22:33:57< shadowm> My previous computer had an ATI Radeon HD 3200 and it was hell from the very beginning.
20120509 22:34:35< shadowm> loonycyborg: how about we avoid calling them * cards when they are actually built into the motherboard? :p
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20120509 22:35:31< shadowm> Since all my computers only have onboard sound controllers they've always worked out of the box.
20120509 22:36:23< shadowm> IGPs are a completely different matter. Especially if they are not 'mainstream'.
20120509 22:36:39< fendrin> anonymissimus: My first installation was 1994. It succeeded but I thought it went wrong because I ended on that black screen with the login prompt. Didn't know what to do there. Thus I formated again, in the believe that the installation failed and the login screen being some sort of failsave session.
20120509 22:36:47< anonymissimus> fendrin: http://pastebin.com/VZL8y7pf
20120509 22:37:11< anonymissimus> :)
20120509 22:37:23< loonycyborg> My first linux install was Gentoo and I compiled my own kernel :P
20120509 22:37:36< fendrin> 00:07.5 Multimedia audio controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82C686 AC97 Audio Controller (rev 20)
20120509 22:37:40< anonymissimus> well that didn't happen to me; I installed my first Linuxn system after seeing my firts login screen
20120509 22:38:10< OpposingFranz> fendrin: lol
20120509 22:38:16< loonycyborg> (And the soundcard didn't work for me because I failed to find the driver in make menuconfig)
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20120509 22:39:49< fendrin> loonycyborg: Mine didn't work because Windows managed to share 2 isa cards with the same dma but linux didn't. And you had to specify those values and jumper the cards, not to mention all the jumpers on the mainboard.
20120509 22:40:12< fendrin> anonymissimus: What tells you that the soundcard is not working?
20120509 22:40:35< fendrin> anonymissimus: Please execute "alsamixer"
20120509 22:40:48< anonymissimus> fendrin: well, no signal in my audio devices
20120509 22:41:04< anonymissimus> "audio devices" being black boxes from sony etc
20120509 22:41:24< fendrin> usb?
20120509 22:41:55< anonymissimus> 3,4 mm Klinke
20120509 22:41:58< anonymissimus> 3,5
20120509 22:42:07< fendrin> okay
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20120509 22:42:15< anonymissimus> and a normal hifi receiver
20120509 22:42:36< shadowm> A common problem I've found with relatively new sound controllers on Linux is getting sane mixer control defaults.
20120509 22:42:48< fendrin> indeed
20120509 22:42:57< anonymissimus> with chinch input, which is working reliably since many years
20120509 22:43:03< loonycyborg> Are they still muted by default?
20120509 22:43:03< shadowm> So I often have to tweak one or more sliders (sometimes 'advanced' ones not shown in kmix by default) after installing.
20120509 22:43:24< fendrin> That is why we use alsamixer.
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20120509 22:43:35< fendrin> It will most likely show every single thing out there.
20120509 22:44:21< shadowm> That can be overwhelming. :)
20120509 22:44:40< fendrin> I never understand it.
20120509 22:44:50< fendrin> I just manipulate until I hear it.
20120509 22:44:54< anonymissimus> that alsamixer I don't have installed...even though lxde desktop contains a "music player" in its menu so one should think it installs everything which is needed
20120509 22:45:43< shadowm> alsamixer is just an alternative mixer control application. Desktop environments tend to have their own built-in applet for that.
20120509 22:46:04< fendrin> anonymissimus: apt-get install alsa-utils
20120509 22:46:06< shadowm> and IIRC alsamixer isn't even GUI-based
20120509 22:46:18< fendrin> but there is alsamixergui
20120509 22:46:36< fendrin> and gnome-alsamixer
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20120509 22:48:06< fendrin> anonymissimus: alsa = advanced linux sound architecture. The open source project which provides the most of the linux audio support.
20120509 22:49:05< fendrin> anonymissimus: And this is the mixer that comes with the driver. It shows too much like shadowm told us but it is your best hope to find the problem if it is just an issue of muted channel.
20120509 22:49:41< OpposingFranz> what distro are we talking about here?
20120509 22:49:48< fendrin> ubuntu
20120509 22:49:55< anonymissimus> precise
20120509 22:49:57< fendrin> or better lubuntu
20120509 22:50:23< anonymissimus> no; I installed the standard distro as a command line system
20120509 22:50:27< fendrin> lubuntu = ubuntu + lxde
20120509 22:50:36< anonymissimus> the apt-get install lxde
20120509 22:50:52< anonymissimus> because lubuntu is not an LTS
20120509 22:50:59< shadowm> I found lxde to be too bland and ugly in Debian squeeze.
20120509 22:51:01< OpposingFranz> you installed ubuntu without gnome?
20120509 22:51:25< OpposingFranz> or got the whole shebang and then went back to lxde?
20120509 22:51:51< fendrin> anonymissimus: Hmmm, did you do that right?
20120509 22:51:51< anonymissimus> depends on what "do that right" means
20120509 22:52:07< fendrin> You need lubuntu-core, lubuntu-default-settings, lubuntu-desktop, maybe some more.
20120509 22:52:22< fendrin> Or you end up with a system that has no sound server running or no mixer installed or whatever.
20120509 22:52:40< fendrin> apt-get install lxde gives you just the desktop.
20120509 22:52:44< fendrin> But there is a huge backend behind a desktop environment.
20120509 22:53:23< fendrin> Make sure you have everything of it or you need to do some stuff manual. Which is quite fun at the beginning. I loved hacking linux the first years.
20120509 22:53:25< shadowm> Technically, if you are going to use ALSA you don't need a sound server.
20120509 22:53:28< OpposingFranz> have you tried playing a sound file from the command line?
20120509 22:53:37< anonymissimus> fendrin: well then I did it wrong it seems
20120509 22:53:51< fendrin> anonymissimus: lubuntu-restricted-addons
20120509 22:54:12< shadowm> I have always considered PA to be just a fancy complication that's absolutely pointless for people like me with an onboard sound controller and two speakers, and not running a sound studio.
20120509 22:54:15< fendrin> anonymissimus: I think installing just everything lubuntu-* is fine.
20120509 22:54:21< fendrin> anonymissimus: apt-get install "lubuntu-*"
20120509 22:54:34< anonymissimus> I don't have anything from Lubuntu and don't want, see above
20120509 22:54:45< OpposingFranz> have you tried playing a sound file from the command line?
20120509 22:55:15< anonymissimus> I want an LTS on this computer which is also leightweigh enough, I already knew lxde and that seemed the only usable solution
20120509 22:56:12< anonymissimus> OpposingFranz: command
20120509 22:56:15< fendrin> anonymissimus: Don't be silly. The lubuntu team also takes care about the "lxde" package and the whole desktop env. You already have a whole bunch of non LTS packages on your system.
20120509 22:56:37< OpposingFranz> well, there are different players, I don't know which ones come with ubuntu
20120509 22:57:04< OpposingFranz> eg mpg123
20120509 22:57:22< anonymissimus> but fendrin is probably right; I probably just lack stuff
20120509 22:57:30< fendrin> anonymissimus: But that doesn't matter much. What counts is that the base of the distribution is well maintained. And you will not use that distribution anymore when the desktop support for lxde runs out, thrust me on this.
20120509 22:57:47< loonycyborg> cat /dev/urandom | /dev/dsp :P
20120509 22:57:53< fendrin> It should be fine to just exectute "apt-get install lubuntu-*".
20120509 22:57:54< OpposingFranz> ouch
20120509 22:58:31< loonycyborg> or cat /dev/urandom > /dev/dsp
20120509 22:58:39< shadowm> trust and thrust are completely different things
20120509 22:59:08< OpposingFranz> mplayer also has a cli component
20120509 22:59:36< boucman> OpposingFranz: i'm  not doing something like a 100% CLI version of DT
20120509 23:00:01< boucman> i'm just making sure that the different files that DT used that were hardcoded can now be overridden from the command line
20120509 23:00:09< fendrin> also it might be a good idea to remove the corresponding "ubuntu-*" packages if not done automaticaly. But that needs to be done more carefully.
20120509 23:00:09< anonymissimus> I don't get that
20120509 23:00:10< fendrin> Don't worry.
20120509 23:00:12-!- Upthorn [~ogmar@69.62.144.56] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20120509 23:00:22< OpposingFranz> dt?
20120509 23:00:32< boucman> OpposingFranz: hmm, i'm completely on the wrong chat window, sry :P
20120509 23:00:36< fendrin> anonymissimus: Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu, whatever buntu. All share the same software pool. It is the same distribution. The difference between the install cds is just that one does "apt-get install ubuntu-desktop" and the other one does "apt-get install kubuntu-desktop".
20120509 23:00:39< boucman> never mind :P
20120509 23:02:35< OpposingFranz> so, do you have a cli-capable audio player installed?
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20120509 23:05:04< OpposingFranz> we might as well all speak German ;-)
20120509 23:05:09-!- anonymissimus [~chatzilla@HSI-KBW-078-042-163-105.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20120509 23:05:52-!- fendrin [~fabi@wesnoth/developer/fendrin] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20120509 23:06:30< OpposingFranz> ok, maybe not... just anon, fendrin and me
20120509 23:06:43< fendrin_> OpposingFranz: I think I am speaking English very good :-P
20120509 23:07:13< OpposingFranz> I can English very well, but I can it not so schnell.
20120509 23:07:25< fendrin_> :-)
20120509 23:07:28< fendrin_> lol
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20120509 23:07:50< anonymissimus> fendrin_: well, thanks for solving the resolution problem, for the other computer I better wait until Lubuntu is a standard distro
20120509 23:07:55< anonymissimus> and also LTS
20120509 23:08:05< OpposingFranz> who cares about LTS??
20120509 23:08:24< OpposingFranz> Now LFS, that's something!
20120509 23:08:39< fendrin_> anonymissimus: It is. That is what I tried to tell you. The only difference is that you will not get updates in 2 years anymore. 
20120509 23:08:44< anonymissimus> I do, since I do not want to go through a long IRC help session after installing a system every few years
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20120509 23:09:32< OpposingFranz> doesn't lint have a lightweight distro based on ubuntu? Or is that only the one based on Debian?
20120509 23:09:38< OpposingFranz> lint->mint
20120509 23:10:13-!- csarmi [csarmi@168.04ec54.tvnetwork.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
20120509 23:10:18< OpposingFranz> there ya go: http://www.linuxmint.com/edition.php?id=98
20120509 23:10:29< fendrin_> anonymissimus: Then go with debian. It has long long term support. I realy mean that. You setup once and keep it for years.
20120509 23:11:04< OpposingFranz> ok, then http://www.linuxmint.com/download_lmde.php
20120509 23:11:15< anonymissimus> I had that in the past; it is awkwardly user-hostile
20120509 23:11:27-!- Gallaecio [~quassel@84.120.114.134.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20120509 23:11:32< shadowm> Nah, it just wants to make sure you are the right kind of user. :p
20120509 23:11:37< OpposingFranz> err...
20120509 23:11:48< OpposingFranz> only in the sense that Unity is user-friendly
20120509 23:12:22< OpposingFranz> Like Windows 8, only meant for touch screens...
20120509 23:12:25 * anonymissimus is sure shadowm knows every shell command he ever needs inclusing all arguments correctly out of the top of his head
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20120509 23:13:40< OpposingFranz> Well, you can't go much lighter-weight than nox.
20120509 23:14:38< OpposingFranz> anyway, gotta go, my Gentoo wants to start using Wifi
20120509 23:15:28< OpposingFranz> (but couldn't you just sudo apt-get install mpg123 and see if that produces any sound?)
20120509 23:15:46< OpposingFranz> (assuming that's the right package name)
20120509 23:16:06< OpposingFranz> i. e. after installing just mpg123 mysong.mp3
20120509 23:16:23< anonymissimus> no; I'll screw this Linux install and stick with windows xD
20120509 23:16:28< OpposingFranz> That's how I confirmed that at least I _had_ sound on my soundless Gentoo
20120509 23:16:46< OpposingFranz> Well, both mints worked out of the box for me
20120509 23:17:13< OpposingFranz> (ubuntu w' gnome and debian w'xfce)
20120509 23:17:52< OpposingFranz> doing a whole wesnoth rebuild takes 10 minutes
20120509 23:18:18< OpposingFranz> (using 2 cores)
20120509 23:19:04< OpposingFranz> k, bye, hopefully next time I'll be talking from my gentoo install.
20120509 23:19:10-!- OpposingFranz [~n.czempin@pD9E9ACEE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit []
20120509 23:19:16< anonymissimus> anyway; fendrin_ : I installed eclipse and eclipse-cdt with synaptic
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20120509 23:23:42< fendrin_> anonymissimus: Okay
20120509 23:24:19< fendrin_> anonymissimus: Let's assume you have a directory /usr/local/src/wesnoth_dev/trunk
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20120509 23:24:59< fendrin_> beyond trunk lies data and src for example.
20120509 23:25:09-!- anonymissimus_ is now known as anonymissimus
20120509 23:25:21< fendrin_> mkdir /usr/local/src/wesnoth_dev/trunk_build
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20120509 23:26:38< fendrin_> anonymissimus: wesnoth_dev can be in your home as well.
20120509 23:27:00< fendrin_> anonymissimus: Do you have a svn checkout already?
20120509 23:29:15< anonymissimus> well, a git checkout
20120509 23:29:30< anonymissimus> on another partition, which I use from windows as well
20120509 23:30:20< anonymissimus> I'm following http://wiki.wesnoth.org/EclipseScons atm
20120509 23:31:37< fendrin_> anonymissimus: Adding all dependencies handish will be painful.
20120509 23:31:46< fendrin_> The cmake route is the better one.
20120509 23:32:02< fendrin_> Anyway, you need to install all the dependencies.
20120509 23:32:06< fendrin_> first
20120509 23:34:30< fendrin_> "apt-get build-dep wesnoth-1.10" catches all pre 1.11 dependencies.
20120509 23:34:47< fendrin_> Thus it is a good start.
20120509 23:35:12< anonymissimus> I already did that
20120509 23:35:43< anonymissimus> from the command line I get a working eecutable, be it cmake or scons
20120509 23:36:34< fendrin_> The biggest different between both methods regarding eclipse is that cmake fills all dependencies in the project file correctly.
20120509 23:36:34< anonymissimus> and interestingly, it was enough to do apt-get build-dep wesnoth-1.10 to get *all* needed dependencies
20120509 23:36:58< fendrin_> hmmm
20120509 23:37:46< fendrin_> I should introduce more experimental stuff to compensate that lack of progress.
20120509 23:38:19< anonymissimus> lol
20120509 23:39:11< fendrin_> anonymissimus: I think you must agree, getting wesnoth to build is a smooth process on linux. That is one of the nicer faces of the OS.
20120509 23:39:20< anonymissimus> be aware that I make you responsible for amount of work I need to update the windows build systems ;)
20120509 23:39:38< anonymissimus> yes thats right
20120509 23:41:28< fendrin_> And I really need "apt-get". Having to fetch all the stuff manually after a windows setup is just so terrible. And all the "Weiter Weiter Wieter" Wollen sie wirklich?
20120509 23:43:46< fendrin_> anonymissimus: Well, I usually fix the scons and the cmake build systems. But I can't take care about every build system on every OS out there.
20120509 23:44:38< anonymissimus> fendrin_: well; I am talking about adding dependencies
20120509 23:44:51< anonymissimus> that is *much* harder to do on windows
20120509 23:45:02< fendrin_> anonymissimus: One more or less ugly thing left is: The eclipse sematic checker. It's a nice thing. But it isn't very much friendly with boost macros and some other preprocessor stuff we use.
20120509 23:45:34< anonymissimus> on Linux, apt-get something would be enough generally, on windows, I need to redompile dependencies, and that can cause all kinds of trouble
20120509 23:45:55< fendrin_> anonymissimus: Thus, configure eclipse to show the errors in blue color instead of red ones. That is important, you will know, the red ones are real compile errors, the blue ones can be false positives from the semantic checker.
20120509 23:46:13< fendrin_> If you don't do this you will not be happy eclipse.
20120509 23:47:01< fendrin_> user
20120509 23:48:18< fendrin_> You can also disable the semantic checker at all but I wouldn't recommend that. It has some useful hints to give.
20120509 23:49:23< fendrin_> And it works on the fly. The red compiler errors need you to recompile to get refreshed. The blue (if you make them blue) semantic checker warnings are updated while you type.
20120509 23:54:03< anonymissimus> well...how do I get it into eclipse at all...I did cmake -G "Eclipse CDT4 - Unix Makefiles"
20120509 23:54:42< anonymissimus> in analogy to what I did in cmake + MSVC or with code blocks
20120509 23:54:42< fendrin_> anonymissimus: You need to execute that command in a different folder
20120509 23:55:05< fendrin_> I have a trunk and a trunk_build folder
20120509 23:55:16< fendrin_> the contents of trunk_build are generated by cmake
20120509 23:55:30< fendrin_> and this folder is opened in eclipse with "import existing project"
20120509 23:55:46< fendrin_> If you executed it in the same directory I don't know what happens.
20120509 23:55:50-!- mattsc [~mattsc@fw.hia.nrc.ca] has quit [Quit: bye]
20120509 23:56:10< fendrin_> I thought having two folders is the usual approach.
20120509 23:57:40< fendrin_> trunk_build:$  cmake -G "Eclipse CDT4 - Unix Makefiles" ../trunk
20120509 23:59:06< fendrin_> anonymissimus: The good thing is that trunk_build is not under version control.
20120509 23:59:27< fendrin_> And there are all the build objects moved in.
--- Log closed Thu May 10 00:00:01 2012