--- Log opened Sun May 13 00:00:43 2012
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20120513 01:23:09< shadowm> worduk: please close bugs marked as fixed that never affected a released version
20120513 01:23:24< shadowm> that's for the future. I'm closing those for now.
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20120513 01:37:22< shadowm> wesbot: seen Crab_
20120513 01:37:22< wesbot> shadowm: The person with the nick Crab_ last spoke 2d 16h ago.  10h 54m ago person left:
20120513 01:37:30< shadowm> Crab_: I filed this and assigned it to you: https://gna.org/bugs/?19731
20120513 01:37:43< shadowm> (In case you don't get the email.)
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20120513 05:42:56< nightstrike> hey, I'm trying to figure out the save game files.  I gave a unit the storm trident from the 4th scenario of the first campaign.  In teh save file, there are two identical units with teh same underlying_id that both have the trident
20120513 05:43:05< nightstrike> why would I have a unit listed twice in my save game?
20120513 05:47:44< nightstrike> save game is here: http://sebsauvage.net/paste/?2ad94a67748487e7#4moRQgBOcLxd/WDC9KC1cQ5Q7k5contC1+mkiDd4Cgw=
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20120513 09:01:49< zookeeper> nightstrike, humm, good question. one is r the snapshot of the gamestate, the other is for 
20120513 09:01:53< zookeeper> err
20120513 09:02:38< zookeeper> one is in [snapshot] which contains the gamestate, and the other is in [replay_start] which AFAIK should contain the initial gamestate at the start of the scenario... but i don't know why oceania has the trident even in the latter
20120513 09:04:17< zookeeper> oh, right
20120513 09:04:58< zookeeper> i thought you were in bay of pearls, but you're not. so, there's the answer: one is the snapshot of the current gamestate, the other is the snapshot of the gamestate at the beginning of the scenario, so replays can work right.
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20120513 09:05:46< zookeeper> i just woke up so i'll blame it on that
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20120513 09:13:39< Ivanovic> moin
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20120513 10:17:15< mordante> servus
20120513 10:18:06< mordante> wesbot seen oleg
20120513 10:18:06< wesbot> mordante: The person with the nick Oleg 19d 12h ago they left with the message: Remote host closed the connection
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20120513 13:01:19< loonycyborg> mordante: Do you have a Jabber account?
20120513 13:01:32< loonycyborg> I can give you Oleg's JID
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20120513 13:17:34< mordante> loonycyborg, I've no jabber account, but thanks
20120513 13:18:02< mordante> I was just wondering about the autobuild project that seems to be down
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20120513 13:37:47< Rhonda> mordante: do you have a gmail account?
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20120513 13:51:53< Rhonda> The question was related to that with each gmail account you have gtalk which is jabber.  :)
20120513 13:52:47< Rhonda> So either use a standalone jabber client and configure it for gtalk, or use the talk thingy within gmail directly.
20120513 13:52:54< mordante> loonycyborg, I just learned I have a Jabber account ;-)
20120513 13:53:14< Rhonda> … in contrary to the "jabber" part of facebook, which is NOT connected to the real world.
20120513 13:53:18< loonycyborg> The question is whether you care to use it.
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20120513 14:36:21< nightstrike> zookeeper: thanks!
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20120513 15:11:58< mordante> Ivanovic, do you have plans, regarding releasing 1.11.0 ?
20120513 15:12:05< Ivanovic> nope
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20120513 15:14:51< mordante> ok
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20120513 15:33:27< CIA-22> mordante * r54166 /trunk/src/gui/dialogs/addon_list.cpp: 
20120513 15:33:28< CIA-22> Use hide for the expand button.
20120513 15:33:28< CIA-22> Using hide instead of expand looks a bit nicer with the size of the rows
20120513 15:33:28< CIA-22> in the addon list.
20120513 15:33:28< CIA-22> The code is used to experiment with a different approach of the
20120513 15:33:28< CIA-22> implementation of a listbox.
20120513 15:33:30< CIA-22> mordante * r54167 /trunk/src/gui/ (6 files in 2 dirs): 
20120513 15:33:30< CIA-22> Fire a message when switching visible status.
20120513 15:33:30< CIA-22> Instead of requesting the window to do a full layout fire a request.
20120513 15:33:30< CIA-22> This allows other widgets to intercept the request and handle it at
20120513 15:33:31< CIA-22> another level.
20120513 15:33:31< CIA-22> The code is used to experiment with a different approach of the
20120513 15:33:32< CIA-22> implementation of a listbox.
20120513 15:33:32< CIA-22> mordante * r54168 /trunk/src/gui/widgets/widget.cpp: 
20120513 15:33:33< CIA-22> Set the visible state before requesting an update.
20120513 15:35:41 * mordante kicks CIA-22 
20120513 15:35:41< CIA-22> ow
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20120513 15:43:23< mordante> Espreon, why did you remove debug_border_colour in r52809, you promised a transition time and warning, none where given
20120513 15:43:46< mordante> Espreon, it's really annoying to break code just to get your favourite flavour of English
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20120513 16:47:06< CIA-22> mordante * r54172 /trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
20120513 16:47:06< CIA-22> Add a debug and test code.
20120513 16:47:06< CIA-22> In order to test with formatting growing listboxes I need a growing
20120513 16:47:06< CIA-22> listbox. When showing the addon dialogue only one is shown, the others
20120513 16:47:06< CIA-22> are loaded with the load button. The code is a bit hacky, but hidden
20120513 16:47:06< CIA-22> under the --new-widgets switch.
20120513 16:47:07< CIA-22> The code is used to experiment with a different approach of the
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20120513 17:46:18< CIA-22> mordante * r54173 /trunk/src/gui/widgets/ (pane.cpp pane.hpp window.hpp): (log message trimmed)
20120513 17:46:18< CIA-22> Fix the formatting for a growing pane.
20120513 17:46:18< CIA-22> The code seems to work for this specific case but needs more testing.
20120513 17:46:18< CIA-22> This commit finishes the proof-of-concept prototype it seems the big
20120513 17:46:18< CIA-22> hurdles in the listbox have been tackled. Now need to focus on getting a
20120513 17:46:19< CIA-22> real widget out of this prototype.
20120513 17:46:20< CIA-22> The code is used to experiment with a different approach of the
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20120513 18:53:07< trademark> hello
20120513 18:53:28< trademark> mordante, did you read my mails ? :-)
20120513 18:54:02< mordante> trademark, yes
20120513 18:54:33< mordante> trademark, I prefer to discuss them on IRC just was about to send you an email with some answers
20120513 18:54:40< mordante> so you have a great timing :-)
20120513 18:56:41< trademark> ok nice
20120513 18:56:55< trademark> should we discuss about it with pm ?
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20120513 18:57:22< mordante> prefer to discuss here others might want to chime in and it's quite silent here
20120513 18:57:28< trademark> ok
20120513 18:58:28< mordante> the addon server is mainly about the server, but when the protocol changes the client should also be able to parse the changes
20120513 18:58:41< trademark> my first question; is it still okay to do it under the sponsorship of wesnoth ?
20120513 18:59:11< trademark> to parse the changes on its own ??
20120513 18:59:23< mordante> no idea noy once brought up that idea, however it was never officially discussed
20120513 18:59:49< mordante> so if you want to do it under sponsership it should be first discussed on the dev-ml
20120513 19:00:11< mordante> but IMO should bring up the subject there
20120513 19:00:38< trademark> ok
20120513 19:01:27< mordante> but IMO noy should bring up the subject there*
20120513 19:01:52< mordante> the client needs to parse the WML data send and serialise it into an internal structure
20120513 19:02:43< trademark> In the protocol description, there is often a specific ID field, so why can't we use the couple <campaign name> + <version> ?
20120513 19:02:47-!- crimson_penguin [~ben@wesnoth/developer/crimsonpenguin] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.]
20120513 19:03:26< mordante> no the dependencies point to another id
20120513 19:03:36< mordante> however the name could be the same as the id
20120513 19:05:38< trademark> for example in the umc_list, "id = ID" and "name = NAME". I don't see the goal of the ID field
20120513 19:06:26< mordante> the main idea is like with databases don't use your primary key for other fields
20120513 19:06:58< mordante> if an author decides to change the name of the addon, for example a mappack the id can remain the same
20120513 19:07:07< mordante> thus not breaking possible dependencies
20120513 19:07:38< trademark> ok I understand now ;-)
20120513 19:07:48< mordante> afaik the server protocol is not documented, but the communication protocol can be found in the source of the campaign server
20120513 19:08:16< mordante> you can reuse whatever code you want to, there is no need to reinvent the wheel ;-)
20120513 19:08:40< mordante> the uploading of an addon is done with the download interface, but you need a pbl file
20120513 19:08:50< mordante> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/PblWML
20120513 19:09:20< the_new_lipk> hi mordante
20120513 19:09:26< mordante> ah wait found http://wiki.wesnoth.org/CampaignServerWML
20120513 19:09:28< trademark> about the source, I can't understand what is a "hook"
20120513 19:09:29< mordante> hi the_new_lipk 
20120513 19:09:37< the_new_lipk> have you done anything to the listbox recently?
20120513 19:10:09< mordante> the_new_lipk, jein worked a lot on the infrastructure but not really started with a widget yet
20120513 19:10:22< mordante> the_new_lipk, execpt for the local copy paste of the current listbox
20120513 19:10:53< mordante> trademark, a hook is a way to execute a certain function when a certain thing occurs
20120513 19:10:53< the_new_lipk> so, the current widget changed too? it behaves strangely
20120513 19:10:59< mordante> trademark, have you used git?
20120513 19:11:05< trademark> yes
20120513 19:11:13< mordante> the_new_lipk, no it shouldn't, what happens
20120513 19:12:00< the_new_lipk> it crashes wesnoth... but then i did something wrong
20120513 19:12:09< mordante> trademark, have a look at a .git/hooks/ directory in a git repository, I think that explains hooks nicely
20120513 19:12:40< mordante> the_new_lipk, if you have a recipe to reproduce it...
20120513 19:12:57< the_new_lipk> trying...
20120513 19:13:17< mordante> trademark, you said you started to work on a minimal server any news on it
20120513 19:14:04< mordante> trademark, I'd also suggest to look at the strands of boost asio, in combination with async events they seem to make it easy to use a `threadpool'
20120513 19:14:19< trademark> mordante, nothing serious, I worked on the documentation and protocol friday. 
20120513 19:14:25< mordante> ok
20120513 19:14:47< mordante> regarding the dependency tracking I'm not sure how it's exactly done at the moment
20120513 19:15:04< mordante> but I think circular dependencies are a bad idea in general ;-)
20120513 19:15:11< mordante> solving them is easy however
20120513 19:15:38< mordante> the dependencies are run-time dependencies so you can install an addon then its depencencies
20120513 19:15:46< trademark> I though to simply refuse dependency no ?
20120513 19:15:52< trademark> cyclic*
20120513 19:16:06< trademark> it's not really possible
20120513 19:16:22< mordante> no then you need cycle detection which can be tricky for ABCA depedencies
20120513 19:16:44< mordante> well since they are only required at run-time you can install them in any order
20120513 19:17:00< trademark> ha yes
20120513 19:17:07< trademark> so we don't need to check them
20120513 19:17:29< mordante> you need to check dependencies but not cycles
20120513 19:18:09< mordante> what would be the advantage to keep all versions of an addon?
20120513 19:19:31< trademark> if you upgrade an addon and so it becames inconsistent for lower version of wesnoth ?
20120513 19:20:02< mordante> we have different addon servers for the different stable branches
20120513 19:20:23< mordante> and the WML is not allowed to change in a stable branch
20120513 19:20:55< mordante> so it only happens in the development branch, an area where an addon developer needs to keep track of mainline changes
20120513 19:22:19< trademark> hmmm ok :-) But I though it could be useful to retrieve old versions such as we do with the codes.
20120513 19:23:25< mordante> maybe somethings, but I don't see a real use-case
20120513 19:23:40< trademark> ok
20120513 19:23:49< mordante> also several addon are already developed in umc-dev, a sideproject with a repository
20120513 19:24:14< the_new_lipk> mordante, latest svn, open remove addons, click on the list. it simply crashes for me
20120513 19:24:16< trademark> I saw this, so I though we could merge the projects
20120513 19:24:40< mordante> the_new_lipk, with --new-widgets or without?
20120513 19:24:54< the_new_lipk> without
20120513 19:24:57< mordante> (I assume without)
20120513 19:25:44< mordante> trademark, maybe we can offer some intergration later on, but then we first need to know whether the developers of umcdev want that
20120513 19:26:04< trademark> yeah, it was just a suggestion
20120513 19:26:10< mordante> but then we need to discuss how, probably only transfer tags
20120513 19:26:41< mordante> yeah no problem it's just that I've no idea whether the umcdev developers think it's useful
20120513 19:27:30< mordante> I can't give you server access (don't have access myself) however I think it's not required at this stage
20120513 19:27:37< trademark> During the next week, I'll update the doc and continue to learn Boost.Asio and code a minimalist server.
20120513 19:27:47< mordante> better run a server locally and upload a (dummy) addon there
20120513 19:28:10< trademark> I didn't think to do this :x
20120513 19:28:15< trademark> thank you
20120513 19:28:20< mordante> you're welcome
20120513 19:28:43< mordante> regarding SVN access we like some patches first, after a few good patches we offer SVN access
20120513 19:28:56< trademark> no problem
20120513 19:29:27< mordante> would be nice to see a minimal server
20120513 19:29:35< mordante> if you have one best post it as a patch
20120513 19:30:06< trademark> it's not really "patching" something in this case ;)
20120513 19:30:23< mordante> I think that were all of your questions, did I miss any or do you have more questions
20120513 19:30:52< trademark> no it should be ok to continue working on it this week
20120513 19:30:56< mordante> new features are also patches ;-)
20120513 19:31:28< mordante> I've seen no question regarding wescamp... you know enough about it?
20120513 19:31:56< trademark> indeed I did not look at it very much. 
20120513 19:32:37< trademark> is it just a file format for translating ?
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20120513 19:39:06< mordante> no it's an external repository for translations
20120513 19:41:03< trademark> mordante, it's about the messages send to the client, isn't it ? We should send it in its own language ?
20120513 19:41:42< loonycyborg> It's translations of addons
20120513 19:42:16< mordante> like loonycyborg said it's about the translation of the addons
20120513 19:42:47< mordante> the server uploads the updates of addons and then on a regular basis gets the latest translations
20120513 19:42:54< trademark> and it's the server which upload the umc translations on the external repo ?
20120513 19:43:01< trademark> ok 
20120513 19:43:20< mordante> trademark, yes
20120513 19:43:29< mordante> and others will upload translations
20120513 19:43:54< mordante> and the server needs to update itself with the latest translations so they can be downloaded from the addon server
20120513 19:43:59< trademark> but if it's the server who upload these translations, how the umc-uploaders even now where are their translations ?
20120513 19:44:19< mordante> the umc-uploader doesn't 
20120513 19:44:23< mordante> and doesn't need to
20120513 19:44:49< mordante> for example I upload an addon
20120513 19:45:29< mordante> I can update the translation at wescamp for the Dutch and German language
20120513 19:45:59< mordante> however my French isn't good enough so you could update the French translation 
20120513 19:46:46< mordante> and then a user can download his/her favourite translations
20120513 19:47:20< trademark> ho ok I get it
20120513 19:48:29< trademark> is a translation associated with a specific umc version ?
20120513 19:49:00< mordante> not per se
20120513 19:49:13< mordante> the translation is just a database with strings and its translation
20120513 19:49:23< Crendgrim> trademark, mordante: As a UMC developer using umc-dev myself, I don't really see the need for an integration. It's not hard to push a new version to the correct servers every once in a while; and then you can make sure that the upload was successful.
20120513 19:49:35< mordante> Crendgrim, ok
20120513 19:49:51< Crendgrim> however, if you rely on some automated mechanism, you might have to wait some time until it actually goes onto the server, so you can't quickly check whether everything is in place
20120513 19:50:13< Crendgrim> also, having a method like this would need some configuration file for each add-on on umc-dev specifying for which version of Wesnoth the add-on is
20120513 19:50:15< mordante> Crendgrim, not sure what you mean
20120513 19:51:02< Crendgrim> so, a mechanism automating the upload seems to be a lot of work for me, with very little benefit..
20120513 19:51:28< Crendgrim> but that's only my opinion of course.
20120513 19:52:14< Crendgrim> mordante: well, I already had it several times that I missed to upload a certain file to the server (for example if it was matched by a _server.ign rule or something alike)
20120513 19:52:33< Crendgrim> the way it is now, you are able to download it after it finishes uploading to see whether it actually contains everything.
20120513 19:52:44< Crendgrim> that's definitely not a major issue, though ;)
20120513 19:54:12< mordante> Crendgrim, ah ok
20120513 19:54:30< mordante> well if you upload twice it well be send to wescamp twice as well
20120513 19:54:36< mordante> but I don't see a big issue with that
20120513 19:54:51< mordante> but how often does it happen?
20120513 19:55:36< Crendgrim> I don't really see any real disadvantage of the proposed automation (except maybe the delay between finishing a version, and it showing up on the add-on server), but I don't really see that big advantages either
20120513 19:56:53< mordante> Crendgrim, except if it isn't shown on the server you can't download to test it
20120513 19:57:35< Crendgrim> mordante: yes, but as I said, that's a very minor issue.
20120513 19:57:50< Crendgrim> mordante: more of a problem is that if you finish a version, you also want to announce it on the forums
20120513 19:58:11< mordante> ok
20120513 19:58:12< Crendgrim> and if people read that, and cannot find the updated add-on (or even download the old one), this is kind of sad.
20120513 19:58:32< mordante> trademark, do you have more questions will be off soon
20120513 19:59:04< Crendgrim> so you'd have to wait for the upload to have finished before you can announce it, and this might become a bit complicated
20120513 20:00:20< trademark> mordante, no thank you for responses ;)
20120513 20:00:38< mordante> trademark, you're welcome
20120513 20:03:59< CIA-22> mordante * r54174 /trunk/src/gui/widgets/grid.cpp: 
20120513 20:03:59< CIA-22> Temporary disable r54170.
20120513 20:03:59< CIA-22> the_new_lipk discovered an issue when trying to remove and addon caused
20120513 20:03:59< CIA-22> by this commit. Needs more investigation but I don't have time at the
20120513 20:03:59< CIA-22> moment. So restore its previous behaviour and look for a proper fix
20120513 20:03:59< CIA-22> later.
20120513 20:04:05< mordante> the_new_lipk, ^
20120513 20:06:30< mordante> I'm off bye
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20120513 22:06:43< shadowm> mordante: currently, dependencies are not handled server side beyond being a comma separated list that's transmitted to clients as part of the big add-ons table
20120513 22:09:30< shadowm> mordante: circular dependencies are handled gracefully in 1.10 (they are silently ignored), and in trunk (they cause an error message in stderr, not sure whether that's a good idea or not yet because I happen to use a circular dependency scheme re AtS <-> AtS_Music at the moment)
20120513 22:10:49< shadowm> The version in trunk is obviously my code. In case that wasn't clear atm. Because I announced I'd be working on a lot of client-side crap back in January and absolutely nobody paid attention from what I gather.
20120513 22:12:02< shadowm> The more reason to feel unmotivated lately. Not sure if I'll ever go back to implementing the dependency tiers since you seem to be making plans without telling me.
20120513 22:12:18< fendrin> esr: Around?
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20120513 22:51:51< anonymissimus> fendrin: hi; I need your assistance once more in investigating another problem...the network-related stuff of lubuntu's lxde desktop seem to disable or mess up the network connection; even though I get access on that system by using menu from the recovery mode
20120513 22:53:01< anonymissimus> after making a normal boot after enabling the network in the recovery mode net access also works once the desktop is there, but there's clearly inconsistency in the displayed informartion :)
20120513 22:54:25< fendrin> anonymissimus: Is your system connected by cable?
20120513 22:56:08< anonymissimus> yes
20120513 22:56:15< anonymissimus> (this one)
20120513 22:56:39< anonymissimus> or not, that varies; I only have one cable for several computers
20120513 22:56:43< fendrin> Okay, I mostly go with a static config file.
20120513 22:56:56< loonycyborg> anonymissimus: lxde itself doesn't provide a network manager.
20120513 22:57:12< loonycyborg> Though no idea what did they add in lubuntu
20120513 22:57:29< anonymissimus> but in the other machine ubuntu 12.04 adopty perfectly to whether it's physically connected or not, no matter at what time
20120513 22:58:20< fendrin> anonymissimus: You still don't have installed lubuntu packages but only lxde ones, right?
20120513 22:58:39< anonymissimus> no, I made a reinstall; this time it's a normal lubuntu
20120513 22:58:58< fendrin> Okay, still we can go with a setup that works without network manager.
20120513 22:59:40< fendrin> anonymissimus: http://pastebin.com/vbwvsxxT  
20120513 22:59:42< anonymissimus> and it is now worse, previously, with the ubuntu commmand line only + lxde it was so that inet access on this computer only worked if it was connected during the system boot
20120513 23:00:04< fendrin> anonymissimus: It needs to be in /etc/network/interfaces
20120513 23:00:14< anonymissimus> now it only works if I boot with recovery mode and manually enable it
20120513 23:00:38< fendrin> Okay, I understood, let's try with the config file in place.
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20120513 23:09:31< anonymissimus> fendrin: I have a #NetworkManager# before the last line
20120513 23:10:09< anonymissimus> fendrin: pls don't write while I'm disconnected; I need to switch the cable to test
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20120513 23:16:27< anonymissimus> fendrin: ok well perhaps you should tell me *when* you think that it should work so I cna test ;)
20120513 23:17:08< fendrin> anonymissimus: /etc/init.d/networking restart
20120513 23:17:10< anonymissimus> so that file is in place (can't copy-paste though)
20120513 23:18:00< fendrin> That will read the config file and setup eth0 and the loopback device.
20120513 23:18:31< fendrin> anonymissimus: You removed #NetwrkManager# ?
20120513 23:19:19< anonymissimus> yes
20120513 23:19:46< anonymissimus> do I need to be connected while running that
20120513 23:19:55< anonymissimus> I'm not, obviously
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20120513 23:30:05< anonymissimus> fendrin: "failed to bring up eth0"
20120513 23:39:33< Espreon> mordante: I don't think *I* promised anything.
20120513 23:39:40< Espreon> That was anonymissimus.
20120513 23:39:45< Espreon> ... probably.
20120513 23:39:58< Espreon> mordante: Sorry for the inconvenience, though.
20120513 23:48:12< fendrin> anonymissimus: it makes dhcp thus, yes you need to be on line.
20120513 23:48:49< anonymissimus> Espreon: wtf ? what did I promise ?
20120513 23:49:31< Espreon> A transition period for the colour -> color stuff. Well, it was either you or someone else.
20120513 23:49:40< Espreon> Sadly, I cannot recall who that someone else might be.
20120513 23:51:41< anonymissimus> ah that...I certainly never promised anything...the whole thing is a useless renaming just for the sake of consistency...perhaps I claimed that there should be a transition period though
20120513 23:52:00< Espreon> Yes, "should".
20120513 23:52:05< Espreon> That is the key word.
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--- Log closed Mon May 14 00:00:55 2012