--- Log opened Tue May 29 00:00:24 2012
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20120529 01:49:50-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 173 bugs, 337 feature requests, 15 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20120529 10:22:30< CIA-61> espreon * r54333 /trunk/data/core/about.cfg: Updated one of my credits entries.
20120529 10:23:21< CIA-61> espreon * r54334 /branches/1.10/ (Doxyfile data/core/about.cfg): Updated one of my credits entries.
20120529 10:23:39< Espreon> ... Hmmmm... oh well.
20120529 10:23:46< Espreon> It brings no harm.
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20120529 15:21:23< neph_> hello Crab_. I need to discuss something with you. We had a pretty long conversation with mattsc yesterday. One thing that he really likes to exploit during his debug routine is reloading .lua files on the fly, using the global ai tables and basically not registering these scripts as CA's, just using them as standalone scripts.
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20120529 15:24:06< neph_> Crab_, mattsc says he doesn't mind using this cheating way, but I personally think it needs to be redone right. My idea for some new syntax seems to complement the way I can encorporate on-the-fly reloading
20120529 15:25:08< neph_> If you have a minute, please read yesterdays log. You can search for my nickname, but I think I also pinged you are some point
20120529 15:29:37< Crab_> hello
20120529 15:29:58< Crab_> I've seen those discussions
20120529 15:31:35< Crab_> making lua ai functions be contained in one or more external files looks like a good idea to me.
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20120529 15:32:05< Crab_> storing a candidate function in a table is also good
20120529 15:32:32< Crab_> but, I would prefer to avoid having new mechanism to load those files
20120529 15:34:15< Crab_> please check the example at http://wiki.wesnoth.org/LuaWML:Files#wesnoth.require
20120529 15:34:28< Crab_> it's quite similar to what you wanted to do
20120529 15:36:06< Crab_> i.e., the syntax might look like   [candidate_action] engine=lua     code= << wesnoth.require("~add-ons/MyEra/lua/ai.lua").protect_leader() >> [/candidate_action]
20120529 15:39:25< neph_> Crab_, yes, but this won't reload modified lua scripts
20120529 15:40:30< neph_> or will ir? hmm
20120529 15:43:23< Crab_> no, it wont, but it won't be an AI-specific problem anymore
20120529 15:43:38< Crab_> it will reload on the fly if you will replace 'require' with 'dofile', for example
20120529 15:43:51< Crab_> or if you would add a debug mode for .require() which will always reload stuff
20120529 15:44:04< Crab_> but, it would be solved in the same way for AI-related lua and for non-AI-related lua
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20120529 15:45:57< neph_> Crab_, my main point was that debugging should not involve(or involve minimal) modifications to the scenario code
20120529 15:46:07< Crab_> yes, I agree
20120529 15:46:19< neph_> in this case I like adding a debug branch in the require function
20120529 15:46:20< Crab_> but, in that case it's better to fix wesnoth.require()
20120529 15:47:09< Crab_> but note it has to be a separate switch, not just -d
20120529 15:47:24< Crab_> since that debug branch would kill performance in some cases
20120529 15:47:40< Crab_> we should ask mattsc what he thinks about this approach
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20120529 16:35:10< mattsc> Hi neph_, Crab_: if I understand what you discussed there correctly, that's fine by me.
20120529 16:37:34< Crab_> mattsc: ok. btw, how do you debug non-AI lua?
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20120529 16:38:09< Crab_> mattsc: how do you achieve 'hot redeployment' with it? you use wesnoth.dofile ? or we were wrong about the fact that wesnoth.require caches stuff?
20120529 16:39:11< mattsc> Crab_: the same way.  Yes, wesnoth.require does not reload if it has already been loaded once, but wesnoth.dofile gets executed as is at the time.
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20120529 16:41:45< mattsc> So I use wesnoth.dofile for everything I work on actively, and wesnoth.require for library functions that I only update occasionally (such as my ai_helper.lua file)
20120529 16:43:00< Crab_> do you think that a switch turning wesnoth.require into wesnoth.dofile is a good idea? (maybe it can already be done if wesnoth table is not readonly)
20120529 16:44:31< mattsc> There are certainly times when I would have liked to have that capability.  But I have no idea if it can be done already or if there's a deeper reason why that's not the case, so I cannot comment on that.
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20120529 16:45:09< mattsc> Ah, but anonymissimus just joined, he probably knows.
20120529 16:45:29< anonymissimus> Crab_: for what it's worth; such switch feels like a bad idea to me
20120529 16:45:58< anonymissimus> generally; there are a number of requires when reloading which you do not want to reload
20120529 16:46:35< Crab_> anonymissimus: why? the intended purpose is to make it a debug-only switch, to allow changes to all lua files to be seen as soon as possible, without having to reload the game.
20120529 16:46:44< anonymissimus> there could be a require in a certain function which is called a lot which would be a dofile every time with teh switch on, so the point of using require is basically gone
20120529 16:47:47< anonymissimus> I generally switch between dofile and require in the code, depending on which file I work on...or do a "back to turn x" or something else that reinits the whole lua state
20120529 16:48:23< Crab_> mattsc: would this approach work for you? ^
20120529 16:48:45< Crab_> i.e. if we don't mess with require/dofile, and you'll just use whatever you want for your candidate actions.
20120529 16:49:11< mattsc> Crab_: yeah, that's fine.  That's what I have been doing so far and it's never been more than a minor, occasional inconvenience.
20120529 16:49:26< Crab_> ok. neph ^ 
20120529 16:49:43< Crab_> anonymissimus: ok, agreed, then.
20120529 16:54:23< anonymissimus> hm, seems that computer virus called Flame is written in lua^^
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20120529 20:05:38< mattsc> neph_, Crab_: one thing I just thought about: it is possible to have scenarios where several sides have customized (and different) Lua AIs.  So whatever mechanism you come up with, it needs to be able to deal with that, both in play and in debug mode.
20120529 20:05:54< mattsc> Maybe that trivial and automatic, I just wanted to mention it
20120529 20:06:02< Crab_> mattsc: it would
20120529 20:06:24< mattsc> Crab_: ok, good.  Thanks.
20120529 20:08:21< mattsc> Currently, I am doing this in debug mode by giving the global ai tables different names, resulting in having to call e.g. a move bwith ai_wolves.move()
20120529 20:08:44< mattsc> In normal gameplay mode, this is of course not necessary if the tables are local.
20120529 20:10:00< Crab_> ok
20120529 20:11:24< mattsc> If there's a better (cleaner) way, please let me know.
20120529 20:11:40< mattsc> ^sometime
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20120529 21:02:45< bloodycoin_m> boucman: pushed changes, awaiting for tons of critique :)
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20120529 22:17:16< boucman> bloodycoin_m: k, looking asap
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20120529 23:40:05< boucman> bloodycoin_m: still reading but this all looks quite good
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20120529 23:42:10< bloodycoin_m> boucman: I can comment on some places, if you need a clearer explanation :)
20120529 23:42:50< boucman> bloodycoin_m: :) sure, but i'm still in the proofreading phase
20120529 23:43:29< bloodycoin_m> boucman: just ping me, when I am needed
20120529 23:44:31< boucman> bloodycoin_m: first question, does boost or STL provide something like your functor template, which would avoid rewriting it ?
20120529 23:44:41< boucman> that the sort of stuff I would expect to find in there
20120529 23:45:57< bloodycoin_m> ugh... actually I didn't check.. but I my motivation would be that, I need a very specific functionality, and boost afaik does things in very general way, which increases compile time a lot 
20120529 23:47:08< boucman> hmm, we usually like to reuse rather than rewrite that sort of bits of code... you might to want to look into it for general culture, it's always good to know boost...
20120529 23:47:38< shadowm> While that's true, it hasn't stopped everyone else from turning Wesnoth into a gcc stress-test suite. :p
20120529 23:48:38< boucman> shadowm hehe
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20120529 23:51:13< bloodycoin_m> hmm... I can feel that on my laptop... a lot...
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--- Log closed Wed May 30 00:00:24 2012