--- Log opened Thu May 31 00:00:28 2012
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20120531 00:12:30< CIA-61> shadowmaster * r54346 /trunk/src/addon/manager_ui.cpp: addon/mg: "contains additional content" -> "contains additional information"
20120531 00:12:51< CIA-61> shadowmaster * r54347 /trunk/src/addon/manager_ui.cpp: 
20120531 00:12:51< CIA-61> addon/mg: Go back to the All view when trying Upgradable without any applicable add-ons installed
20120531 00:12:51< CIA-61> This regression was introduced by r54336.
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20120531 00:38:37< CIA-61> shadowmaster * r54348 /trunk/src/addon/manager_ui.cpp: 
20120531 00:38:37< CIA-61> addon/mg: Set the busy mouse cursor earlier
20120531 00:38:37< CIA-61> The first call to available_addons() in show_addons_manager_dialog() has
20120531 00:38:37< CIA-61> the potential to be extremely expensive due to filesystem traversal
20120531 00:38:37< CIA-61> inefficiencies, so it's better to set the busy cursor at that point
20120531 00:38:38< CIA-61> instead of right before building the list rows.
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20120531 03:13:48< shadowm> I'm thankful that Ogres almost never speak in mainline.
20120531 03:13:56< shadowm> Very, very thankful.
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20120531 03:15:30< shadowm> (This is obviously regarding http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=530137#p530137 , in which I wouldn't be able post my opinion without being accused of joining the peanut gallery.)
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20120531 07:15:39< CIA-61> espreon * r54349 /website/gettext.wesnoth.org/langs.php: 'Shavian' -> 'English (Shavian chars)'.
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20120531 08:08:36< zookeeper> shadowm, and what opinion is that?
20120531 08:11:48< shadowm> That it looks slightly disgusting.
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20120531 08:25:11< zookeeper> i think it's very close to being "too gross" for a portrait, but... not quite, which is why i haven't said anything
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20120531 10:05:50< Elvish_Hunter> Hi all
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20120531 10:27:02< CIA-61> elvish_hunter * r54350 /trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): TSG: in Choice in the Fog, Urza Afalas' sighted event is fired also when the Lich is seen. Fixes bug #19758
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20120531 10:46:11< Akihara> hi everyone! someone know if it's possible to get the list of unit of a specified side?
20120531 10:47:40< shadowm> You mean in the UI, WML, or something else?
20120531 10:48:12< shadowm> (or Lua or C++)
20120531 10:48:18< matthiaskrgr> Akihara: http://units.wesnoth.org/1.8/C/mainline.html ? 
20120531 10:49:17< Akihara> c++, in game
20120531 10:50:16< Akihara> i would like to get the list of units which are on the field :)
20120531 10:50:45< shadowm> The Unit List dialog does it by interating over the unit map and only considering units whose side attribute getter returns the desired side number; no idea if there's a more optimal way.
20120531 10:50:49< shadowm> *iterating
20120531 10:51:06< Akihara> okay thanks :) 
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20120531 11:57:03< CIA-61> shadowmaster * r54351 /trunk/src/addon/manager_ui.cpp: (log message trimmed)
20120531 11:57:03< CIA-61> addon/mg: Greatly simplify UI logic when no add-ons can be displayed
20120531 11:57:03< CIA-61> We now display the add-ons manager with an amount of controls
20120531 11:57:03< CIA-61> hidden/disabled and a line of text explaining the situation in a few
20120531 11:57:03< CIA-61> words.
20120531 11:57:04< CIA-61> This was necessary to reduce complexity since there are now more
20120531 11:57:05< CIA-61> situations to handle because of the add-on type filtering options. It
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20120531 13:40:56< Nephro> crab_, there are some modifications needed to be done in engine_lua.cpp to the CA wrapper classes. Do you think I better branch the current wrapper or add another one to use polymorphically
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20120531 13:43:03< crab_> branching during the configuration phase is ok
20120531 13:43:23< crab_> but I think it'd be better if the execution/evaluation was without branches
20120531 13:44:04< crab_> i.e. if you use branches to set  the execute/evaluate handlers when parsing, and then just run them (without further branches), I think it'd be great
20120531 13:44:17< crab_> but, no strong opinion here (only slightly in favor of branching)
20120531 13:45:10< Nephro> crab_, the differences are only in constructing and serializing for storage
20120531 13:45:34< Nephro> eval/exec's will remain the same
20120531 13:47:47< crab_> then I think that branching is the way to go
20120531 13:49:50-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 171 bugs, 337 feature requests, 15 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20120531 13:50:03< Necrosporus> http://units.wesnoth.org/1.10/mainline/en_US/mainline.html
20120531 13:50:20< Necrosporus> Why lich is located in humans, but ancient lich in undead?
20120531 13:51:14< Nephro> crab_, there is a problem though. The current implementation does "evaluation_(cfg["evaluation"])" in the constructor. The new syntax will lack evaluation and execution fields, it will only have a location field.
20120531 13:51:32< crab_> why location?
20120531 13:52:16< crab_> i.e. if you allow code= instead of location=, you'll allow to write the CA inline, as well as from file (via wesnoth.require). or you want to forbid that?
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20120531 13:53:43< crab_> but, no matter what is chosen here, once you have the code/location, you have the code
20120531 13:53:58< crab_> then, you can execute it, and get a table with evaluate/execute fields in it
20120531 13:54:52< crab_> then, you can either get those fields from the table and assign them to lua handlers, or use a table directly
20120531 13:55:05< crab_> you'll have to convert the code used by old approach, then
20120531 13:55:34< Nephro> crab_, well, code and location do not make a difference, that is correct, but right now, the CA tag requests the evaluator and executor separately 
20120531 13:55:44< crab_> yes, I know
20120531 13:56:02< crab_> that would need to be changed inside the C++ code - so, after construction, you should have a lua table with functions, or 2 lua functions.
20120531 13:56:09< Nephro> crab_, and the wrapper keeps raw code in the evaluation and execution functions
20120531 13:56:12< Nephro> to store it later
20120531 13:56:23< Nephro> if we have external code we can't split it to keep strings
20120531 13:56:33< crab_> so, if you have the old syntax, you'll have to 'convert' it to get the new format
20120531 13:56:43< Nephro> indeed
20120531 13:57:09< crab_> I'd make the wrapper keep lua functions (or a lua table) internally, and, when serializing, use whatever is available - 2 strings for execute/evaluate or 1 string for code/location
20120531 13:57:20< Espreon> Nephro: Because the Ancient Lich generally doesn't advance from anything.
20120531 13:57:22< Nephro> but if I write another class we can keep both syntaxes. Objects would be constructed from classes depending on what fields does the config have
20120531 13:57:45< crab_> yes, that's also an option
20120531 13:58:48< Nephro> but I'd have to write an abstract class first and then derive from it
20120531 13:59:01< Nephro> since the exec eval code will be duplicated otherwise
20120531 13:59:08< Espreon> Whoops.
20120531 13:59:17< Nephro> and if I derive from the current wrapper i will have unused variables
20120531 13:59:42< Espreon> Necrosporus: Read the sentence above that I accidentally directed to Nephro.
20120531 14:00:43< crab_> yes, I agree that deriving from current wrapper is not good. however, note you don't have to derive here - you can extract exec/eval code to a helper function/class, and use it.
20120531 14:00:58< crab_> but, making an abstract class and basing on that is also ok
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20120531 14:01:20< Necrosporus> Espreon, hmph... Ancient Lich advances from usual lich in DiD
20120531 14:01:41< Espreon> Well, in general, it doesn't.
20120531 14:02:05< Necrosporus> Anyways... that doesn't seem very logical... 
20120531 14:02:05< Espreon> ... and the tools that generate units.wesnoth.org gives the reality of core priority.
20120531 14:02:15< Espreon> *give the
20120531 14:02:23< Necrosporus> but thanks, now I see, it's not just a bug
20120531 14:03:03< Necrosporus> How should I decide the maximum level of a specie?
20120531 14:03:19< Necrosporus> I'm going to make a unit line
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20120531 14:03:53< Necrosporus> But first I should decide, would it be 0-2 like bats, 1-3 like woses or maybe 0-3?
20120531 14:08:25< crab_> Nephro: so, in general, do as you want here. I'd pick 1 internal representation and just convert during configuration to use it
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20120531 14:17:02< Necrosporus>  If the unit is 6 meters long, should it be drawn as multitile like fire dragon or 1 tile would be enough?
20120531 14:17:53< crab_> Necrosporus: I would say that it's not related to unit size
20120531 14:18:15< Necrosporus> What's it related with?
20120531 14:18:23< crab_> Necrosporus: i.e. 'hexes are possibly miles across', so, the dragon is multi-tile just to show how badass it is.
20120531 14:18:34< crab_> if a unit is supposed to be scary&unique
20120531 14:19:20< crab_> so, if it's, for example. a 'boss' in RPG, then it'd made sense to make him big
20120531 14:22:17< Necrosporus> Nope, just usual animal, only relatively big
20120531 14:23:51< Necrosporus> crab_, which level would a giant animal deserve?
20120531 14:24:00< Necrosporus> But giant only for humans
20120531 14:25:40< crab_> check http://units.wesnoth.org/1.10/mainline/en_US/mainline.html#Monsters
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20120531 14:38:30< Necrosporus> Is there any specs for unit pics?
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20120531 14:50:25< crab_> Necrosporus: try asking at the forums
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20120531 15:11:57< Necrosporus> There were a portrait guide, I guess, there should be same for unit pics
20120531 15:14:11< Necrosporus> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/BuildingUnits
20120531 15:14:12< Necrosporus> I guess, this
20120531 15:15:41< artisticdude> Necrosporus: You mean a guide on how to draw the unit baseframe?
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20120531 15:16:17< Necrosporus> Yeah
20120531 15:16:19< Necrosporus> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Creating_Unit_Art
20120531 15:16:38< Necrosporus> I guess, it must be this page
20120531 15:16:47< artisticdude> Yup.
20120531 15:17:05< artisticdude> I updated that page not that long ago, so it should contain the most recent standards and specifications.
20120531 15:17:21< artisticdude> With regard to mainline standards, anyway.
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20120531 18:23:24< mattsc> crab_: around?
20120531 18:23:40< crab_> yes
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20120531 18:24:04< mattsc> I must be missing something in setting up a side AI when there are several sides
20120531 18:24:14< mattsc> http://pastebin.com/Gzxn7Bcs
20120531 18:24:53< mattsc> I have that ^ in a side definition.  It does not work because the ai table is local and therefore not accessible from inside the file I am including (big-animals_engine.lua)
20120531 18:25:26< mattsc> If I make the ai table global, it works, but then I cannot have several sides all having an ai table called 'ai'
20120531 18:25:53< mattsc> which is a problem if I want to have several sides use the same functions (without lots of if's, I mean)
20120531 18:25:55< crab_> return wesnoth.require("foo").init(ai)  ?
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20120531 18:26:39< mattsc> Hmm, let me try that (I am not familiar with that; must have missed it somewhere...)
20120531 18:27:22< crab_> well, the same as  H = wesnoth.require "lua/helper.lua" 
20120531 18:28:06< mattsc> That crashes wesnoth with "attempt to call field 'init' (a nil value)"
20120531 18:28:25< crab_> well, you need an init function, then
20120531 18:28:31< crab_> see http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth/trunk/data/lua/helper.lua
20120531 18:28:35< crab_> it's the same idea
20120531 18:28:51< crab_> you make your file return something
20120531 18:29:01< crab_> this something can be a table, then you can call functions from it
20120531 18:29:13< crab_> even better, that something can be a function, then you can call it directly
20120531 18:29:34< crab_> and when calling a function from ai engine, you can pass the ai table (from upvalue) to that funciton
20120531 18:30:08< crab_> so, from your helper file, return a table with functions or a function
20120531 18:30:24< crab_> then, from lua engine, call the function which would 'create' your ai
20120531 18:30:41< crab_> actually, that the way we want to go with candidate actions 
20120531 18:31:17< mattsc> I see.  I think.  I'll need to wrap my head around that for a moment...  (this is where not being a coder becomes noticeable :)
20120531 18:31:46< mattsc> Thanks much.  I think you've told me what I need to know!  If not, I'll be back with more questions.
20120531 18:31:54< crab_> well, the main point: functions are objects, so you can return a function (and call it later)
20120531 18:32:09< crab_> see helper.lua , it is one of the ways to implement it
20120531 18:32:52< mattsc> Yeah, I know that part.  It's the "I need the file (function) to return something so that something else is available in the function ..." bit.  
20120531 18:33:08< mattsc> But I think I can figure it out.
20120531 18:33:21< crab_> "so that something else is callable as a function"
20120531 18:34:24< mattsc> yes.  I think.  But just to make sure: if I do it right, this will mean that the functions inside my file call use (call) the ai table, right?
20120531 18:34:37< mattsc> *can use
20120531 18:34:46< crab_> it means that inside your file, you'll have a function that would accept the AI table as a parameter
20120531 18:35:00< crab_> and with that parameter, you can do anything you wish, it'll be just a function parameter
20120531 18:35:12< mattsc> Ok.  Thanks.
20120531 18:35:22< Necrosporus> http://storage4.static.itmages.ru/i/12/0531/h_1338481957_3492838_aa153511bf.png
20120531 18:35:26< crab_> you can make it a named funciton, like 'init'
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20120531 18:35:35< Necrosporus> The first unit I made
20120531 18:35:37< crab_> or, you can make it an unnamed function
20120531 18:35:37< mattsc> As I said, I am pretty ignorant about these kinds of things.  :)
20120531 18:35:47< crab_> well, experiment and have fun :)
20120531 18:35:47< mattsc> Ok.  Thanks.
20120531 18:35:53< mattsc> Will do!
20120531 18:36:03< crab_> Necrosporus: looks nice :)
20120531 18:36:18< mattsc> I need to do something else right now (back to my day job!), but will get back to this later today.
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20120531 18:36:37< Necrosporus> But it should be made to take colour of place where it reside
20120531 18:36:41< Necrosporus> Is it possible?
20120531 18:36:59< Necrosporus> Not semi transparent, but, blue on water, yellow on sand and so on?
20120531 18:37:21< Espreon> It's possible.
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20120531 19:22:00< CIA-61> ivanovic * r54352 /trunk/po/wesnoth-tutorial/zh_TW.po: updated Chinese (Traditional) translation
20120531 19:22:07< CIA-61> ivanovic * r54353 /branches/1.10/po/wesnoth-tutorial/zh_TW.po: updated Chinese (Traditional) translation
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20120531 20:02:07< mattsc> crab_: Thanks for the help!  Once I had a few minutes to digest what you had written, this was quite easy.
20120531 20:02:26< mattsc> I now have it set up like this:  http://pastebin.com/r0Er3mUr
20120531 20:02:51< mattsc> Is that ok like that, or am I doing something that I should avoid?
20120531 20:03:35< mattsc> This is called in the engine with: wesnoth.require("~add-ons/AI-demos/lua/big-animals_engine.lua").init(ai)
20120531 20:07:42< mattsc> (I forgot to mention that it does work, with several sides using the same code/file, so I am only asking if I am using unclean coding methods here.)
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20120531 20:21:48< the_new_lipk> shadowm: teamcolorizer doesn't compile with gcc 4.6 because of the -Werror flag
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20120531 20:57:37< anonymissimus> zookeeper: "Naturally you can't display [message]s before the story screen." why you think this is natural ?
20120531 20:58:04< zookeeper> because the story screen takes place before the scenario really starts..?
20120531 20:58:10< anonymissimus> [messages] put into a prestart event are displayed on the story screen at least
20120531 20:58:15< zookeeper> what
20120531 20:58:23< zookeeper> they are?
20120531 20:58:27< anonymissimus> but I don't recall whether it was before or after story
20120531 20:58:42< mattsc> yes they are.  After the story.
20120531 20:58:47< anonymissimus> well, the map at least is not yet there, I remember seeing this
20120531 20:59:33< zookeeper> so they're displayed after the last story screen, but when the background from the last story screen is still visible?
20120531 20:59:37< zookeeper> well, that's new then
20120531 20:59:41< anonymissimus> so I thought that a preload event may display them even before the story
20120531 21:00:03< anonymissimus> not sure about whether the wml action engine is already ready and such though
20120531 21:00:26< mattsc> zookeeper: I am making use of that in my first campaign (displaying a message before the map is there) and I wrote that ~2 years ago. 
20120531 21:01:29< zookeeper> weird.
20120531 21:02:11< anonymissimus> I imagine one may even call [message] from lua which is executed from one of the toplevel [lua] tags...the ones that can modify the wesnoth.game_events.on_load thing...however, the problem that the action engine may not be ready applies even more in thsi case
20120531 21:15:12< ancestral> Quick question: Do macros need to be capitalized?
20120531 21:17:28< zookeeper> ancestral, no
20120531 21:17:33< zookeeper> but that's heavily encouraged
20120531 21:18:29< mattsc> anonymissimus: just in case you did not see that, the Prune Cart AI demo can now be played with trunk; nephro fixed the bug
20120531 21:28:40< anonymissimus> mattsc: yes, thx (I tend to see things)
20120531 21:29:30< mattsc> ok  :)
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20120531 21:47:11< shadowm> the_new_lipk: --disable-strict
20120531 21:47:19< shadowm> I think I fixed that in git the other day.
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--- Log closed Fri Jun 01 00:00:32 2012