--- Log opened Tue May 15 00:00:11 2012
--- Day changed Tue May 15 2012
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20120515 00:00:27< Fakespeare> hello
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20120515 00:04:19< Fakespeare> Hello
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20120515 00:38:52< shadowm> but no bye?
20120515 00:41:29< Espreon> :(
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20120515 05:57:26< Blarumyrran> What is currently the expected way a player would choose which add-on campaigns to download & try?
20120515 06:01:32< kernigh> I do not know.
20120515 06:02:26< kernigh> Wesnoth already has many mainline campaigns, so I have less use for add-on campaigns.
20120515 06:04:29< Blarumyrran> The only metrics I could think of as useful are, 1) whether the creator's name is familiar, 2) whether the name & description are stupid or full of errors. But both of these are pretty weak metrics because they can't be applied to most umc campaigns
20120515 06:05:40< kernigh> Some campaigns might have unusual features (like right-click menus, or random maps, or lots of items). You might try a campaign with an unusual feature that you like.
20120515 06:06:17< Blarumyrran> With multiplayer-related add-ons, the choice is much easier, mostly determined by the popularity on the main server
20120515 06:06:43< Blarumyrran> kernigh, I'm asking how would the user make the choice of which campaigns to DOWNLOAD in the first place
20120515 06:06:53< shadowm> There's no plan.
20120515 06:08:08< shadowm> The add-ons GUI is still stuck in the pre-1.0 era despite my best efforts, and even if it wasn't, the user would be expected to make use of the filter box and list sorting by themselves since "we" don't want to recommend any add-ons in particular.
20120515 06:08:55< shadowm> I suspect most people just start by trying out the first add-ons in the list with the default sorting and no filter.
20120515 06:09:28< shadowm> The default sorting is actually no sorting at all; add-ons are displayed in the order they were uploaded to the server by default.
20120515 06:09:59< shadowm> (More strictly speaking, the order in the server's add-ons list WML, which just so happens to be equivalent to the upload order with the current implementation.)
20120515 06:11:46< kernigh> Another idea: visit http://forum.wesnoth.org/viewforum.php?f=8 and look at the first several threads.
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20120515 06:17:47< Blarumyrran> okay
20120515 06:18:58< Blarumyrran> shadowm, any chance of improving it for the next stable? "users who liked this add-on also liked" feature would be great in particular
20120515 06:20:59< shadowm> I don't know yet, we have a major organizational problem and conflicts of interests going on here.
20120515 06:22:05< shadowm> And in any case other developers have spoken against anything resembling content rating before.
20120515 06:24:12< kernigh> Content rating might be difficult to patrol. What if I voted 1000 times that my add-on was 'very good'?
20120515 06:27:42< Blarumyrran> most people wouldn't bother to go through installing wesnoth 1000 times and then installing a number of campaigns each time so as to create a "users who liked this add-on also liked that" connection between them
20120515 06:28:18< Blarumyrran> or I don't know really
20120515 06:29:09< shadowm> How would you know a user is voting the same add-on multiple times without authenticating them to a the add-ons server somehow?
20120515 06:31:39< Blarumyrran> right now how well users perform in camaigns is tracked somehow, right? I assumed that means there's some mechanism for checking what playthroughs belong to the same client
20120515 06:34:27< shadowm> No, we don't track campaign stats.
20120515 06:34:39< Blarumyrran> oh
20120515 06:35:59< kernigh> An old Wesnoth version had an 'envelope button' that sent info about campaigns. Or was that some other game? But I do not see the 'envelope button' in Wesnoth today.
20120515 06:40:29< shadowm> Yes, we originally had that option.
20120515 06:41:27< Blarumyrran> anyway let's say each client upon first run (first connection to the internet?) generates a unique id which can't be changed without more trouble than it's worth, and every time an add-on is downloaded by a wesnoth client, it only increases the "users who liked this add-on also liked that add-on" value of the campaign if it hasn't been downloaded from the same client id before
20120515 06:42:34< shadowm> The unique id could presumably be changed by either deleting its entry in the preferences file or deleting the preferences file altogheter.
20120515 06:42:38< shadowm> *altogether.
20120515 06:42:52< Blarumyrran> maybe it shouldn't be in the preferences file then
20120515 06:42:52< shadowm> That's too easy to do if you'd ask me.
20120515 06:42:57< Blarumyrran> but cleverly hidden inside the exe
20120515 06:42:57< shadowm> WHere else would it be?
20120515 06:43:01< shadowm> Can't be done.
20120515 06:43:28< Blarumyrran> why?
20120515 06:43:33< shadowm> Firstly, Wesnoth has no business modifying its own executable files.
20120515 06:43:58< shadowm> That kind of behavior triggers antivirus software IIRC.
20120515 06:44:19< shadowm> And in any case, Wesnoth should be able to run without administrative privileges while installed to a path which can only be changed by an administrator.
20120515 06:44:34< Blarumyrran> I see
20120515 06:44:41< shadowm> This is the case both in Windows and Linux builds, especially for those bundled in software distributions.
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20120515 06:46:05< shadowm> The reasonable alternative was already ruled out by the person who will be spearheading the add-ons server rewrite project in 1.11.x.
20120515 06:46:27< shadowm> That alternative was optional forum authentication.
20120515 06:48:41< shadowm> (Although that was for uploading add-ons, not ratings.)
20120515 06:52:20< Blarumyrran> and why ""we" don't want to recommend any add-ons in particular" (where "we" would be a small group of trusted volunteers)? 
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20120515 06:55:11< shadowm> I'm too lazy to go and look it up, but the subject has been brought up in Ideas or elsewhere a few times in the past.
20120515 07:01:05< Blarumyrran> forum search seems to give no answers if the "-" character is in one of the query words (eg it claims "add-on" is in no posts)
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20120515 16:36:53< faabumc> hi little wml question: how am I supposed to save a unit_type I modified after [store_unit_type]. Isn't there a [unstore_unit_type]?
20120515 16:38:47< zookeeper> i'm pretty sure there isn't
20120515 16:39:05< zookeeper> likely [store_unit_type] is there only so that you can read stuff from it
20120515 16:40:41< faabumc> thanks zookeeper, what is the way to modify a unit_type then?
20120515 16:41:02< zookeeper> none, unless you can do so with lua
20120515 16:43:22< Crendgrim> no, I don't think there is a way with Lua... at least I didn't figure out how to
20120515 16:45:39< faabumc> ok :(
20120515 16:48:09< faabumc> now would there be a way for me to add a new undead_variation without change the Walking Corpse unit_type?
20120515 16:48:53< artisticdude> [base_unit] ?
20120515 16:52:19< faabumc> let me check
20120515 16:57:10< faabumc> "Subsequent attributes modify the copy": does it stand for arrays?
20120515 16:58:03< artisticdude> Presumably...
20120515 16:58:28< artisticdude> But I've not actually tried it with arrays.
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20120515 22:46:09< igorko> guys hi
20120515 22:46:38< igorko> i need some tip. Is thereany SDl-net function to check if sdl_net is initialized?
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--- Log closed Wed May 16 00:00:59 2012