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20120609 04:35:07< wesbot> shadowm: The person with the nick anonymissimus last spoke 4d 7h ago.  4d 7h ago they left with the message: Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 11.0/20120312181643]
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20120609 08:40:39< mordante> servus
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20120609 08:56:53< CIA-88> ivanovic * r54381 /trunk/ (5 files in 4 dirs): updated Greek translation
20120609 08:56:53< CIA-88> ivanovic * r54382 /branches/1.10/ (4 files in 3 dirs): updated Greek translation
20120609 08:58:27< Ivanovic> moin
20120609 08:58:44< mordante> hi Ivanovic 
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20120609 09:07:07< CIA-88> ivanovic * r54383 /branches/1.10/data/core/about.cfg: updated Credits for Greek translation
20120609 09:07:09< CIA-88> ivanovic * r54384 /trunk/data/core/about.cfg: updated Credits for Greek translation
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20120609 09:42:29< mordante> does anybody know who TuukkaH is?
20120609 09:43:39< mordante> the_new_lipk can you please remove the trailing whitespace from your patch and reformat the code to 80 chars per line?
20120609 09:45:18< mordante> the_new_lipk also please add Doxygen comment in the header files for the class members
20120609 09:46:00< mordante> the_new_lipk using explicit in a constructor with more than one parameter makes no sense
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20120609 10:29:41< shadowm> Since when do we _require_ 80 characters per line?
20120609 10:30:44< shadowm> CodingStandards in the wiki says "You may use long lines."
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20120609 10:38:56< shadowm> loonycyborg: Did the SDL version shipped with the Windows package change starting with 1.10.2?
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20120609 10:39:33 * shadowm starts to think it'd be a good idea to mention which version is shipped with the release announcement and/or wiki page.
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20120609 10:43:52< loonycyborg> shadowm: Either 1.10.2 or 1.10.1, don't remember which :P
20120609 10:44:09< shadowm> Some people appear to have sound problems starting with 1.10.2
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20120609 10:44:17< shadowm> er, Windows 7 users, to be specific.
20120609 10:45:46< shadowm> Oookay, "some people" being a moderator, and _potentially_ a user.
20120609 10:46:34< loonycyborg> http://www.libsdl.org/release/ <- they can get an older dll from here and try it with 1.10.3
20120609 10:47:42< shadowm> That's a lot of files.
20120609 10:48:17< shadowm> I guess it'd be better to tell them to try some specific version with a link.
20120609 10:48:44< loonycyborg> 1.2.12 or 1.2.13
20120609 10:48:52< shadowm> Here you have the bug report: https://gna.org/bugs/?19643
20120609 10:49:05< shadowm> (I bet money it should be marked Upstream Problem.)
20120609 10:49:31< shadowm> Forum topic, although the OP is ridiculously hard to communicate with: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=36959
20120609 10:52:04< shadowm> Blargh it all to blargh: http://shadowm.rewound.net/f/mods-800x480.png
20120609 10:52:10< loonycyborg> http://www.libsdl.org/release/SDL-1.2.12-win32.zip
20120609 10:52:43< the_new_lipk> mordante, I've added doxydoc for the dialog classes, but do I really need to document every single function in mp::depcheck::manager as well? :S
20120609 10:53:17 * shadowm prods the_new_lipk with a poiny object.
20120609 10:53:22< shadowm> *pointy
20120609 10:54:00< shadowm> There's something wrong with this picture: http://shadowm.rewound.net/f/mods-800x600.png  (pretend the stuff at the right of the map selection box doesn't exist)
20120609 10:55:28< shadowm> It's always advisable to keep things short (especially for translations), so perhaps just "Modifications..." would be a much better label choice.
20120609 10:56:07< the_new_lipk> okay...
20120609 10:56:11< shadowm> There's also something terribly wrong with what I get when I don't have any suitable modifications installed: http://shadowm.rewound.net/f/mods-800x600-why-so-empty.png
20120609 10:57:29< shadowm> Basically, the user has no way to know what the dialog is about being all empty like that. Perhaps a transient_message telling them that they don't have any modifications installed and where they can get them would be a _much_ better feedback choice in this situation.
20120609 10:57:49< loonycyborg> shadowm: I've replied to the thread.
20120609 10:58:11< shadowm> loonycyborg: thanks
20120609 10:59:38< shadowm> In a very related note, the game setup screen needs a redesign. Badly.
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20120609 11:12:54< shadowm> the_new_lipk: the previous Done button in the add-ons manager dialog in 1.9.x/1.10.x was silene's doing, not mine.
20120609 11:13:48< shadowm> Sounds like you intend to introduce a new type of add-on?
20120609 11:14:10< the_new_lipk> yes
20120609 11:14:36< shadowm> What would it be?
20120609 11:14:53< the_new_lipk> MP Modification, most likely
20120609 11:15:18< shadowm> Incidentally, when I introduced add-on types in 1.5.x I left a commented-out ADDON_TYPE enumeration entry for future use.
20120609 11:15:22< shadowm> //ADDON_MOD,// Modification of the game for SP and/or MP.
20120609 11:15:38< the_new_lipk> :)
20120609 11:16:06< shadowm> But back then I had no idea what it could be used for, which is why it was left commented.
20120609 11:16:47< shadowm> One thing about your idea is that I think the total-conversion camp also considered using the "modification" moniker.
20120609 11:18:05< the_new_lipk> As for me, I always regarded the add-on categories as technical categories
20120609 11:18:38< the_new_lipk> so, if a conversion is implemented as an era, then it's an mp era
20120609 11:20:01< shadowm> Hm, total conversions were/are/will be (?) intended to be a little more complicated than that, affecting game_config attributes and other stuff like that.
20120609 11:25:24< the_new_lipk> maybe, but you still use them as eras
20120609 11:27:09< shadowm> I meant this: https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?8832
20120609 11:32:21< the_new_lipk> hmmm... interesting. however, this stuff isn't likely to be implemented in the foreseeable future, so I'm not sure if we should really take it into consideration
20120609 11:32:39< shadowm> Nah, obviously not.
20120609 11:33:11< shadowm> I'm sure whoever finally does it will be able to find a more suitable name, such as "conversion".
20120609 11:36:33< shadowm> mordante: and another thing, do you have anything against using WML macros in GUI2 grid definitions (e.g. to avoid repeating specific sub-layouts a dozen times)?
20120609 11:37:09< fendrin> the_new_lipk: Well, if I hadn't started to work on the request, I wouldn't have marked the bug "In progress".
20120609 11:38:02< shadowm> s/repeating/copy-pasting complete/
20120609 11:39:02< shadowm> And we don't have a paging control for switching between different grids yet, right?
20120609 11:39:18< fendrin> the_new_lipk: I want to finish it before the release of 1.12.
20120609 11:39:48< the_new_lipk> fendrin, all right, then do you have anything against using the "modification" category for "cumulative modification in multiplayer" ?
20120609 11:39:59< the_new_lipk> *modifications
20120609 11:41:11< fendrin> the_new_lipk: No, I think the result of implementing feature request 8832 will be something like "core" or "conversion". Thus "modification" is fine.
20120609 11:41:29< the_new_lipk> shadowm, is this ok with you? (besides the obvious typo) http://imagebin.org/215741 
20120609 11:42:07< shadowm> the_new_lipk: Hm, using the stock transient_message instead wasn't feasible?
20120609 11:42:32< the_new_lipk> why would that be better?
20120609 11:42:32< shadowm> Also, I believe we are supposed to avoid contractions (especially trivial ones like that) in UI messages.
20120609 11:42:39< shadowm> the_new_lipk: Consistency™.
20120609 11:43:19< shadowm> See for example the transient_message displayed when attempting to fire up Load Game without any saves.
20120609 11:43:31< the_new_lipk> all right
20120609 11:43:45< fendrin> the_new_lipk: May I ask how the "modifications" work?
20120609 11:43:55< shadowm> Also, but button's label on the titlescreen is Add-ons, not Add-on.
20120609 11:44:10< the_new_lipk> (that is the obvious typo)
20120609 11:44:11< shadowm> I have also made a point of calling it add-ons server wherever I can.
20120609 11:44:42< shadowm> And don't forget the stop. :p
20120609 11:45:10< the_new_lipk> fendrin, from a technical or a user's viewpoint?
20120609 11:45:26< shadowm> Also not sure whether there should be a line-break at all.
20120609 11:45:37< fendrin> the_new_lipk: technical, because I made some plans about it while thinking about 8832. 
20120609 11:46:23< the_new_lipk> shadowm, could you please make a suggestion what should the message exactly say? :P
20120609 11:47:12< the_new_lipk> fendrin, technically, it just copies the  [event]s from the activated modifications to the scenario's config
20120609 11:47:52< shadowm> the_new_lipk: "There are no modifications currently installed. To download modifications, connect to the add-ons server by choosing the 'Add-ons' option on the main screen."
20120609 11:48:10< the_new_lipk> thanks
20120609 11:48:24< shadowm> I don't know whether anyone has called the titlescreen by its name in UI text yet.
20120609 11:48:50< shadowm> That's something that can be addressed in a future UI cleanup pass if necessary, anyway.
20120609 11:48:58< fendrin> the_new_lipk: I see. Should be enough to do some nice stuff.
20120609 11:50:40< the_new_lipk> fendrin, I plan to add some more complicated stuff later, which allows modifications (and eras and scenarios) to define options can be set on the game creation screen
20120609 11:55:22< fendrin> the_new_lipk: I like to talk to you more about this but need to turn off my machine now. Installed some new hardware and the process is not complete. I hope I can find some more time for the conversation this weekend.
20120609 11:55:41< the_new_lipk> ok
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20120609 14:00:56< mordante> shadowm, yeah that line stands there added by TuukkaH, but I can't recall it ever being discussed on the dev-ml
20120609 14:02:09< mordante> the_new_lipk documentation doesn't hurt
20120609 14:02:27 * mordante wonders why most coders seem to be against documentation so badly :-(
20120609 14:03:25< mordante> shadowm, not per se, I've used WML macros at several occasions in the GUI code
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20120609 15:00:41< the_new_lipk> mordante: okay, let's agree that I make the docs but don't reformat to 80 chars
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20120609 16:16:33< vultraz> mordante: I got the row with the listboxes in it to stick to a certain minimun height....but now the listboxes themselves are resizing
20120609 16:19:25< vultraz> mordante: ok, getting somewhere. the scroll label has decided to start using its scrollbar
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20120609 16:32:01< vultraz> mordante: ok, window resizing I can live with. Only thing I need to figure out is how to stop the listboxes from resizing
20120609 16:34:00< vultraz> mordante: ok...I think I may have got it
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20120609 17:01:03< vultraz> mordante: ok, last thing I want to fix is the big gaps between the listboxes http://imagebin.org/215758
20120609 17:02:32< vultraz> http://pastebin.com/W3XkEXL7
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20120609 19:49:50-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 177 bugs, 337 feature requests, 16 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20120609 21:18:40< shadowm> mordante: I don't think that line merits discussion. Artificial limitations are silly.
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20120609 21:19:18< shadowm> Also, the thing about documentation is that sometimes takes longer to write than code, especially when the code is self-explanatory.
20120609 21:19:23< shadowm> *it sometimes
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20120609 23:19:23< mordante> the_new_lipk I'm really not happy with overlong lines, they read badly
20120609 23:21:32< mordante> vultraz try to give the last listbox column a grow_factor of 1
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20120609 23:22:16< mordante> shadowm, actually it does merit since apparently somebody modified the coding standards without discussing
20120609 23:22:30< mordante> and we don't even seem to know who that person is
20120609 23:23:49< shadowm> The coding standards are best defined by existing practice.
20120609 23:24:19< mordante> also 80 characters per line is a rather common limit and long lines fit badly on my terminal
20120609 23:24:22< shadowm> *overly long lines
20120609 23:24:44< shadowm> You could ask your text editor or pager to use line wrapping.
20120609 23:24:50< mordante> unfortunately too many people thing code is self-explanatory when written...
20120609 23:25:39< mordante> so we just allow everybody to add new coding standards :-|
20120609 23:25:54< mordante> my editor wraps lines, making the code harder to read
20120609 23:25:56< shadowm> No, that wasn't what I meant.
20120609 23:26:20< shadowm> And to be perfectly honest with you, it's your fault for not using the wiki correctly. It is possible to protect pages from editing by non-admin users.
20120609 23:27:58< mordante> that page existed long before I joined so don't start to blame me
20120609 23:28:30< shadowm> You have created a lot of auto-generated pages which could use the same level of protection.
20120609 23:28:55< shadowm> Anyway,looking at the page's history, TuukkaH did not add that line in its current form.
20120609 23:29:24< shadowm> He had first added in parenthesis "could we change this to max 80 colums per line".
20120609 23:29:35< shadowm> Then Sapient removed that: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/index.php?title=CodingStandards&diff=21023&oldid=18486
20120609 23:30:24< shadowm> Both people have or had developer access at one point.
20120609 23:30:49< CIA-88> mordante * r54385 /trunk/src/gui/widgets/tree_view_node.cpp: 
20120609 23:30:49< CIA-88> Remove an unused typedef.
20120609 23:30:49< CIA-88> The issue was detected by the upcomming gcc-4.8.
20120609 23:30:55< CIA-88> mordante * r54386 /branches/1.10/src/gui/widgets/tree_view_node.cpp: 
20120609 23:30:56< CIA-88> Remove an unused typedef.
20120609 23:30:56< CIA-88> The issue was detected by the upcomming gcc-4.8.
20120609 23:31:08< CIA-88> mordante * r54387 /branches/1.10/src/editor/editor_palettes.cpp: 
20120609 23:31:08< CIA-88> Remove an unused typedef.
20120609 23:31:08< CIA-88> The issue was detected by the upcomming gcc-4.8.
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20120609 23:32:28< shadowm> I imagine this all means you will post in the ML asking for review of the current page anyway.
20120609 23:41:11< CIA-88> mordante * r54388 /trunk/ (CMakeLists.txt changelog): 
20120609 23:41:11< CIA-88> Fixes strict compilation with gcc-4.8 and CMake.
20120609 23:41:11< CIA-88> In gcc-4.8 there will be a new warning -Wunused-local-typedefs. This warning is
20120609 23:41:11< CIA-88> triggered by boost's static asserts, causing strict compilation to fail when
20120609 23:41:11< CIA-88> using this compiler.
20120609 23:41:12< CIA-88> Note the compiler is not officially released yet so used a recent snapshot.
20120609 23:42:07< CIA-88> mordante * r54389 /branches/1.10/ (CMakeLists.txt changelog): 
20120609 23:42:07< CIA-88> Fixes strict compilation with gcc-4.8 and CMake.
20120609 23:42:07< CIA-88> In gcc-4.8 there will be a new warning -Wunused-local-typedefs. This warning is
20120609 23:42:07< CIA-88> triggered by boost's static asserts, causing strict compilation to fail when
20120609 23:42:07< CIA-88> using this compiler.
20120609 23:42:08< CIA-88> Note the compiler is not officially released yet so used a recent snapshot.
20120609 23:42:18< mordante> loonycyborg, you might want to do something similar for scons^
20120609 23:42:45< shadowm> mordante: What's the situation with trademark's patch?
20120609 23:43:00< mordante> shadowm, no time to look at it yet
20120609 23:44:05< shadowm> Okay, so I guess you can't tell me yet whether I could go ahead with my own plans.
20120609 23:44:20< mordante> no
20120609 23:46:52< loonycyborg> mordante: You mean adding -Wno-unused-local-typedefs for strict compilation?
20120609 23:47:02< mordante> loonycyborg, yes 
20120609 23:47:10< mordante> but it's new in gcc-4.8
20120609 23:49:42< loonycyborg> I guess I'll do that, though probably boost will fix that in future versions..
20120609 23:50:16< mordante> probably they will
20120609 23:50:45< mordante> however it broke my testing 'farm' so decided to fix it
20120609 23:58:47< mordante> I'm off night
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--- Log closed Sun Jun 10 00:00:34 2012