--- Log opened Mon Jun 11 00:00:28 2012
20120611 00:01:27< mattsc> Crendgrim: Thanks, I got the replay and see what's happening.  He has a safe attack (no significant retaliation possible on next turn) there and decides to do that rather than the move.
20120611 00:02:17< Crendgrim> mattsc: hm, but he almost dies, and I think he even could have died.. or did I miss some ZOC there preventing it?
20120611 00:03:07< mattsc> Well, the no-retaliation takes the current situation into account, not what could happen if that Spearman blocking him dies (which it probably will).
20120611 00:03:36< mattsc> Anyways, I'm not arguing that he shouldn't go to the goal, just saying what the AI is doing
20120611 00:04:14< Crendgrim> ah, alright
20120611 00:04:15< mattsc> This should be an easy fix, but I don't have time right now.  I'll do that tonight (GMT+7)
20120611 00:04:19< Crendgrim> that explains it :)
20120611 00:04:44< Crendgrim> well, I was just noticing it while looking through your demos.. very impressive work you did there.
20120611 00:05:31< mattsc> Thanks.  :)  But there's definitely lots of room for improvement, so if you find anything else, please let me know.  I'll PM you back when I have this one fixed.
20120611 00:07:12< Crendgrim> great :) I will if I find something.
20120611 00:09:59< CIA-88> jetryl * r54392 /trunk/data/core/ (3 files in 3 dirs): New portrait for troll warrior.
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20120611 01:01:15< CIA-88> espreon * r54393 /trunk/data/core/images/portraits/trolls/ (transparent/troll-warrior.png troll-warrior.png): Ran umcpropfix.
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20120611 04:52:10< mattsc> Crendgrim: the Protect-the-Wizard AI has been updated (it wasn't really a bug as the code did exactly what it was supposed to do; non-ideal algorithm is probably a better description)
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20120611 10:50:17< CIA-87> shadowmaster * r54394 /trunk/ (changelog src/scripting/lua.cpp): 
20120611 10:50:17< CIA-87> lua: Allow wesnoth.scroll_to_tile() to instantly warp to the selected location
20120611 10:50:17< CIA-87> This adds a fourth argument (boolean) to wesnoth.scroll_to_tile(). When
20120611 10:50:17< CIA-87> true, the display code instantly warps to the chosen location regardless
20120611 10:50:17< CIA-87> of the scroll speed setting in Preferences.
20120611 10:50:25< CIA-87> shadowmaster * r54395 /trunk/ (changelog data/lua/wml-tags.lua): 
20120611 10:50:25< CIA-87> Add an optional .immediate (def. false) attribute to the [scroll_to] and [scroll_to_unit] WML actions
20120611 10:50:25< CIA-87> When immediate is set to a true value, the display code will instantly
20120611 10:50:25< CIA-87> warp to the chosen location regardless of the scroll speed setting in
20120611 10:50:26< CIA-87> Preferences.
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20120611 11:26:58< shadowm> What's the deal with HttT's portraits atm?
20120611 11:26:59< shadowm> 20120611 05:26:34 error display: could not open image 'portraits/konrad.png'
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20120611 11:36:35< zookeeper> shadowm, portrait references haven't been updated yet, only the portraits themselves committed
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20120611 11:37:20< CIA-87> shadowmaster * r54396 /trunk/src/scripting/lua.cpp: lua: Forgot code documentation in r54394
20120611 11:37:21< shadowm> Okay, I guessed as much.
20120611 11:37:36< CIA-87> shadowmaster * r54397 /trunk/src/ (display.cpp display.hpp game_events.cpp): 
20120611 11:37:36< CIA-87> display: Allow disabling viewport scrolling
20120611 11:37:36< CIA-87> This will later allow WML/Lua to lock the viewport so the user cannot
20120611 11:37:36< CIA-87> scroll away from the current viewport location. WML and Lua actions such
20120611 11:37:36< CIA-87> as [scroll], [scroll_to] and [scroll_to_unit] will always be able to
20120611 11:37:37< CIA-87> scroll the screen regardless of this setting.
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20120611 13:19:48< Crendgrim> hm, seems that wmlindent cannot handle FAI comments properly..
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20120611 15:33:57< Crendgrim> is there any way to reset shroud_data for a side? [modify_side]shroud_data= seems to only unshroud areas.
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20120611 17:15:53< mattsc> Crendgrim: aroudn?
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20120611 18:02:15< mattsc> Nephro: around?
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20120611 18:14:25< Crendgrim> mattsc: yes
20120611 18:15:39< mattsc> Crendgrim: changing the wolf AI to work with more than 3 wolves is not too difficult, but there are a bunch of different ways to do that, so I figured I ask directly what you want.
20120611 18:16:09< mattsc> So, do you want packs that are larger than 3, or split up into several packs when there are more than 3 wolves?
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20120611 18:17:04< mattsc> Also, should the wolves in the packs always be the same (once assembled), or do they change from pack to pack based on the situation?
20120611 18:17:23< mattsc> (as in, do wolves switch between packs?)
20120611 18:18:27< Crendgrim> mattsc: well, I guess I will just describe the behavior I'd like best, and you'll see in how far it can be implemented without too much work
20120611 18:18:40< mattsc> perfect
20120611 18:19:52< Crendgrim> I already had the idea of having multiple wolves scattered through the forest part of my map, all being guardians. With your AI, up to three wolves can pack up and sometimes even attack the village, which is great from a gameplay experience side.
20120611 18:20:19< Crendgrim> The only disadvantage of it is that there can be only three wolves now, which is why I asked about having multiple packs
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20120611 18:21:06< Crendgrim> I like the idea of having small (that is: up to three wolves) packs, but considering the size of the forest, it would be nice to have multiple (I guess 2 or 3 would be best) of them
20120611 18:22:13< mattsc> Do you decide (and tell the AI) which wolves are in a pack, and when, or should the AI decide that itself?
20120611 18:22:14< Crendgrim> whether or not they stick together forever once assigned I do not care too much about, as for the most time they'll be hidden under fog anyway
20120611 18:22:44< Crendgrim> if the AI can handle that itself, that would be great. Else, I can also assign them to packs on creating them
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20120611 18:23:31< Crendgrim> what would be nice, though, is this: If a wolf is part of a pack, and all other wolves of that pack die, he looks for a new pack — if this is possible.
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20120611 18:24:34< mattsc> So, there are packs of 3 and 2, but once the size is down to 1, the wolf will look for another pack?
20120611 18:25:20< Crendgrim> yes.
20120611 18:26:10< mattsc> ... and it would join up with other single wolves or those in packs of 2, since we restrict the max size to 3?
20120611 18:26:27< Crendgrim> right
20120611 18:27:36< Crendgrim> in case there is one (or multiple) pack of 3 and one single wolf, I think he should stray around for himself, though
20120611 18:28:04< mattsc> ok, all of that is doable.  What I don't understand yet is the "all of them being guardians" bit.  When are they guardians and when are they roaming in packs?  Or is that something you do by switching the AI?
20120611 18:28:25< Crendgrim> ah, no
20120611 18:28:34< Crendgrim> that was just describing how I did it before I saw your AI ;)
20120611 18:28:44< mattsc> oh.  ok.
20120611 18:28:54< Crendgrim> with your AI, that doesn't matter anymore. I like how it is semi-aggressive towards the village
20120611 18:30:10< mattsc> You mean toward units on/in villages?  I don't think I have it set to capture villages, they just hunt deer or wander randomly if no deer are around.
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20120611 18:30:48< Crendgrim> ah, sorry.
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20120611 18:31:01< Crendgrim> well, I have one area in my map where there are villages and peasants
20120611 18:31:34< mattsc> ah, yes, that makes sense.  Anyway, how about this:
20120611 18:31:41< Crendgrim> and sometimes the wolves seem to attack the village (as they are walking there)
20120611 18:31:49< Crendgrim> which feels just right :)
20120611 18:32:32< anonymissimus> shadowm: IIRC you asked about some unbalanced #undef wmlscope message...I got that a few times but it was always valid meaning I was #undefing something at the end of a file which had never been never #defined previously
20120611 18:33:07< mattsc> At the beginning of each turn, the AI looks for wolves that are not in packs.  On the first turn, that means all wolves.  On later turns it means either new wolves or those whose packs are down to one.
20120611 18:33:24< anonymissimus> sure I imagine it can fail with your exorbitant complex macroish wml xD
20120611 18:34:15< mattsc> Those are assigned into packs of 3, if possible (2 otherwise) in "some logical way" (still need to figure out what exactly that means) and then stay together in those packs until all but one have died.
20120611 18:34:59< mattsc> A single wolf will join other in packs, unless there are only full packs of 3 and 1 single wolf, which will then wander alone.
20120611 18:34:59< Crendgrim> "some logical way" probably being their distance from each other?
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20120611 18:35:56< mattsc> yes.  And maybe it's as simple as that.  But what do you do, e.g. if you have 3 wolves in the center close together, and 3 in each corner?
20120611 18:36:31< mattsc> The easiest would be to make the 3 in the center one pack, and have the 3 in the corners join each other.  But it's not the quickest way of getting 2 complete packs together.
20120611 18:36:48< mattsc> But it might just be what wolves would do.
20120611 18:37:29< Crendgrim> and it would be the quickest way of getting one pack together
20120611 18:37:36< mattsc> yes
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20120611 18:38:17< mattsc> So, maybe: whichever 3 wolves are closest together are the first pack.  Then repeat until all of them are assigned.
20120611 18:38:51< mattsc> And as the scenario designer, you can use that by creating them in groups of 3, rather than scattered over the map.
20120611 18:39:06< Crendgrim> that sounds good to me :)
20120611 18:40:00< mattsc> Ok, I'll give that a shot.  I'm traveling all week.  Sometimes I have time on these trips to code, sometimes not at all.  Don't know yet.  So I might have something tonight, or it might be next weekend.  :)
20120611 18:40:13< Crendgrim> would be great :)
20120611 18:40:35< mattsc> Talk to you later then.
20120611 18:45:04< mattsc> Oh, one more thing.  Do you want them to attack as a group or individually
20120611 18:45:06< mattsc> ?
20120611 18:45:37< mattsc> Currently, I just have the combat CA do that, so any wolf in attack range in a pack does so, the other continue their random wander, possibly away from the ones that attack
20120611 18:45:59< Crendgrim> if it's easy to implement, it would be nice to have them all attack
20120611 18:46:28< mattsc> It's conceptually easy, I just need to write the code.  :)
20120611 18:47:17< mattsc> Ok, I'll include that too (and you can always have the other behavior by not using that candidate action)
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20120611 19:56:03< boucman> bloodycoin_m: around ?
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20120611 20:25:09< bloodycoin_m> boucman: just arrived
20120611 20:25:16< boucman> k
20120611 20:25:21< boucman> how did your exams go ?
20120611 20:25:37< bloodycoin_m> pretty good
20120611 20:26:01< boucman> cool :)
20120611 20:26:07< bloodycoin_m> unfoortunatelly, though I still have pretty tight schedule this week >.<
20120611 20:26:15< boucman> oh :(
20120611 20:26:44< bloodycoin_m> but when I was preparing for exam, I tried experimenting with wesnoth, and studied during compile times xD
20120611 20:26:51< boucman> hehe
20120611 20:26:54< bloodycoin_m> worked rather well
20120611 20:26:59< boucman> :)
20120611 20:28:56< bloodycoin_m> I tried connecting effect_user to anim_elem in animator and/or unit....
20120611 20:29:11< boucman> k
20120611 20:29:28< bloodycoin_m> tried to get some persistance between one animation and another, but result weren\t pleasing >.<
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20120611 20:30:56< boucman> why do you want persistance between animations ?
20120611 20:30:58< bloodycoin_m> in most cases, animation got expired, while the effect was just starting...
20120611 20:31:13< boucman> I think we have a difference in "vision" here... 
20120611 20:31:21< boucman> hmm
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20120611 20:31:34< bloodycoin_m> well, I wanted to do keep the same effect and particle data for different effect :)
20120611 20:31:59< bloodycoin_m> I just wanted to do it more my way... but I didn't have much luck -.-
20120611 20:32:05< boucman> :P
20120611 20:32:12< boucman> well, you learn :P
20120611 20:32:27< anonymissimus> zookeeper: it looks as if you forgot to commit an image: misc/flag-red2.png
20120611 20:32:48 * zookeeper looks
20120611 20:33:11< boucman> bloodycoin_m: but appart from the restarting did it work ?
20120611 20:34:09< anonymissimus> zookeeper: this was in r54360; anyway, the image isn't there
20120611 20:34:24< CIA-87> zookeeper * r54398 /trunk/data/core/images/misc/flag-red2.png: Added a missing image which should have been in r54360.
20120611 20:34:24< zookeeper> yeah, fixed
20120611 20:34:26< zookeeper> thanks
20120611 20:34:36< bloodycoin_m> boucman: you mean, keeping err... effect reference and reusing it later? not really... animator is recreated... unit are temporary created... 
20120611 20:35:27< boucman> no I meant overall, I'm not really interested in reusing effects as I've already mentionned, I'd like to move on to effect creation through WML descriptions
20120611 20:35:32 * anonymissimus wonders why wmlscope doesn't show the HttT portraits as unresolved
20120611 20:35:32< bloodycoin_m> theoretically it could be possible though.. but it looks like that would require "a bit" code restruturisation >.>
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20120611 20:36:05< boucman> yeah, code restructuration in the anime engine which are a bit out of scope for this SoC...
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20120611 20:36:49< bloodycoin_m> aaa...  other than that - yea it works... 
20120611 20:36:58< boucman> cool :)
20120611 20:37:08< bloodycoin_m> well... it's kinda subjective on the word "works" xD
20120611 20:37:15< boucman> :P
20120611 20:38:07< bloodycoin_m> I guess I will just reset those few files and go back to subanimations...
20120611 20:38:42< boucman> or branch from before you started that, if you think it's worth keeping for later...
20120611 20:39:37< bloodycoin_m> not really... it's mainly std::cout with few creation lines xDD
20120611 20:40:03< boucman> ok, your call :)
20120611 20:40:25< boucman> so, do you want some info on WML parsing, or did you already explore that a little ?
20120611 20:41:31< bloodycoin_m> any info is worth :) I did see few glimpses...
20120611 20:41:43< boucman> hehe, ok...
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20120611 20:41:50< boucman> so. We work in two phases
20120611 20:41:55< bloodycoin_m> well.. as a result I think now I got a better view of anim engine
20120611 20:42:00< anonymissimus> is any of the GSoC students this year developing on windows btw ?
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20120611 20:42:12< bloodycoin_m> linux here
20120611 20:42:19< boucman> 1) an animation is created at game start time, this is when we parse WML
20120611 20:42:50< boucman> as far as you are concerned, this is where unit_animation::particle::particle(config &cfg, ...) is called
20120611 20:43:23< boucman> at this point you have the WML and can either parse it or save it to parse it later (I would recommand parsing it)
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20120611 20:44:07< boucman> later, when the unit wants to start an animation, the animation is copied (through a copy constructor) and unit_animation::start_animation is called on it
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20120611 20:44:45< boucman> which in turn calls unit_animation::particle::start_animation
20120611 20:45:04< boucman> (where particle is obviously sub_animation, I am not used to the name change yet :P )
20120611 20:45:29< bloodycoin_m> no prob, I can /s it realtime :)
20120611 20:46:33< boucman> in that function you probably want to call an effect::start_animation or something similar, at this point the WML should be parsed (since it's parsed at load time) but ideally the surface hasn't been created (to avoid creating useless surfaces and avoiding the problems with copying surfaces) and now is a good time to do it
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20120611 20:47:46< boucman> good ?
20120611 20:47:57< bloodycoin_m> boucman: then... where does anit_animation::fill_initial_animations and unit_animation::add_anims come into play?
20120611 20:48:30< boucman> they are before unit_animation::unit_animation you are lucky not to have to deal with these :P
20120611 20:48:37< boucman> they are mainly here for two purposes
20120611 20:48:59< boucman> 1) dealing with conditional animations (i'll explain this later)
20120611 20:49:39< boucman> 2) fill default animations that are not provided by wml (like white flash on selection, default sliding on movement and attacks, fade in and out on leveling and death etc...)
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20120611 20:50:14< boucman> conditional animations allows you to specify a wml that says, within an attack animation "if the attack is successfull play sound X if it isn't, play sound Y"
20120611 20:50:37< boucman> however internally we can't handle if/else structures within an animation. so we transform this into two animations
20120611 20:50:57< boucman> one of which is not a valid choice if we hit, and one that is not a valid choice if we miss
20120611 20:51:30< boucman> but all that is analyzed, filled and expanded before the actual unit_animation objects are created, so you don't have to deal with it
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20120611 20:51:46< boucman> it comes for free when you attach your structures to subanimation objects :)
20120611 20:51:50< boucman> you lucky :)
20120611 20:52:41< bloodycoin_m> hm.... ok, because I saw unit_anim vector there and some string key assignments, so I tought, maybe I could use that information to differentiate between animations... but now it doesn't look as usefull
20120611 20:53:09< boucman> yes, that's part of the filling defaults logic
20120611 20:53:25< boucman> that logic is quite complicated because we base our defaults on existing animations
20120611 20:53:32< boucman> i'll take an example
20120611 20:53:39< boucman> suppose our unit is the drake glider
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20120611 20:54:33< boucman> that unit has a standing animation where it flaps its wing. It is important that this unit flaps its wings on all default animations, so we reuse that anim as a base for all defaults
20120611 20:54:58< boucman> so we can't create a default from scratch starting by the unit's default frame, we have to start from a default anim and edit it
20120611 20:55:27< boucman> and we can have multiple default anims that have to be used in different cases (still drakes, they fly over water but stand on ground)
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20120611 20:55:39< boucman> but yeah, overall you shouldn't need to worry about that
20120611 20:57:04< bloodycoin_m> right... now I know why I am glad I don't have to mess with it :D
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20120611 20:57:44< boucman> well, I'm working on it since ~2006 so yeah, it has complicated requirements ;)
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20120611 21:06:16< bloodycoin_m> boucman: so parsing wml... are there some tools/functions for that or I have to do it manually?
20120611 21:06:22< bloodycoin_m> reference code?
20120611 21:07:15< boucman> well, in particule::particule you get a config object (defined in config.hpp, this is the WML that is already parsed, so no need to deal with it)
20120611 21:07:27< CIA-87> anonymissimus * r54399 /trunk/data/campaigns/ (2 files in 2 dirs): some wmllint fixes
20120611 21:08:43< boucman> that config object is the whole [animation] block
20120611 21:09:38< boucman> the subanimation::subanimation constructor has a second parameter frame_string which is the xxx in the [xxx_frame] for that particular subanimation
20120611 21:09:47< anonymissimus> wesbot: seen Alarantalara
20120611 21:09:47< wesbot> anonymissimus: The person with the nick Alarantalara last spoke 16d ago.  8d 2h ago they left with the message: Quit: Leaving.
20120611 21:10:07< boucman> with these two you should be able to get what you want. the config class is very complete
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20120611 21:10:31< anonymissimus> Alarantalara: I've just seen that the objectives in the morning after don't appear to evaluate the show_if on the fly
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20120611 21:10:36< boucman> (but it takes memory space, which is why I analyze it at ctor time to avoid keeping it around)
20120611 21:11:02< anonymissimus> so, after discovering Garak, if opening the objectives dialog, his death isn't shown as a loss condition
20120611 21:11:10< boucman> in particular the debug() method returns the object as a sstring, which helps a lot when debugging
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20120611 21:12:41< bloodycoin_m> boucman: oh, one of the best thing, when trying to figure out structure.... reading template classes in gdb is "a bit"... unconvenient
20120611 21:12:56< boucman> hehe
20120611 21:14:49< bloodycoin_m> ah... btw... when I was playing effect_user attachments... I got that effect_user destor is called twice, when anim_elem is inherited from it...
20120611 21:15:25< boucman> I am not sure what you mean...
20120611 21:15:37< bloodycoin_m> could non-virtual destor in effect_user be areason, or is there is something else?
20120611 21:16:46< boucman> hmm, non-virt destor in that case is a bug (non-virt dtor and inheritence mix very badly) but I am not sure if it could have that sort of side effect
20120611 21:16:52< bloodycoin_m> I mean... when I do animator::anim_elem : public effect_user.... and anim_elem gets detrpyed... effect_user's destor is called twice
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20120611 21:18:29< boucman> that's weird, you are sure both dtor were called from the same location ?
20120611 21:19:10< boucman> (and why are you tweaking anim_elem, that's not a structure you should need to deal with.... it's about syncing multiple anims, not about drawing them)
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20120611 21:19:43< bloodycoin_m> (well, like I said, I was playing around, trying things out)
20120611 21:20:01< boucman> ok, that's a good reason :)
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20120611 21:20:39< bloodycoin_m> I am not sure where they are called.... any good way to figure out?
20120611 21:21:17< boucman> gdb, breakpoints, backtraces ? :P
20120611 21:22:05< boucman> you might want to look at your ctor too, it's easy to miss a call to a copy ctor which would lead to two objects being destroyed later
20120611 21:22:17< bloodycoin_m> right... why do somethimes I think after writing... -.-'
20120611 21:22:30< boucman> we all do, no big deal
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20120611 21:25:17< bloodycoin_m> mm... so the current plan is to create respective effect w/o surfaces in subanimation ctor; and start it later (creating surfaces) with effect::start
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20120611 21:26:37< boucman> that's how I see it, and that mirrors how things work for subanimations, if you're fine with it, it soulnds like a plan
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20120611 21:29:43< bloodycoin_m> mm... more or less I am fine with it... I don't have courage and time to refactor code to support persistive effects (as I would like...)
20120611 21:30:11< boucman> bloodycoin_m: that would be a nice extra, but still something I wouldn't prioritize at this point
20120611 21:30:36< bloodycoin_m> I know... like I said... time and courage issue xD
20120611 21:31:07< shadowm> anonymissimus: So, I want to expose the viewport lock (r54397) feature to WML. How do you recommend I implement that? A Lua getter and setter and a WML tag for the latter? What names would you suggest?
20120611 21:33:40< bloodycoin_m> oh.. boucman, another thing... if you tried my code, I guess you noticed, that when you are scrolling, effects with particles lags one frame behind... I suspect I am calling particle_engine a bit in wrong place... or there could be anything else?
20120611 21:34:21< boucman> I don't remember anything like that when working on animations...
20120611 21:34:53< boucman> you might be calling at a wrong place, i'm not sure, let's keep tab on this, but I don't have an answer for you off the top of my head...
20120611 21:35:08< anonymissimus> shadowm: I don't think I understand the feature
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20120611 21:35:29< shadowm> anonymissimus: locking the viewport... so the player can't scroll.
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20120611 21:41:51< anonymissimus> shadowm: so you want to get/set display::view_locked_ ?
20120611 21:42:27< anonymissimus> perhaps functions wesnoth.lock_view, wesnoth.release_view and tags with the same name
20120611 21:42:37< shadowm> I guess you can say that... I added public accessors for that to the display class.
20120611 21:44:01< anonymissimus> the feature may confuse players I think
20120611 21:44:10< shadowm> Yes, sure, everything can confuse players.
20120611 21:44:19< anonymissimus> if it's what I expect, and a wml author abuses it
20120611 21:44:21< shadowm> Absolutely everything.
20120611 21:44:52< shadowm> Can we skip the coder abuse part? Because I already said it should be even possible to deplete available RAM with WML.
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20120611 21:45:14< boucman> it might be very usefull for cutscenes, though
20120611 21:45:22< shadowm> Yeah, that's exactly why I coded it. :)
20120611 21:46:31< anonymissimus> perhaps it's be useful to add parameters to tags/functions that scroll whether to lock the view afterwards as well
20120611 21:46:46< anonymissimus> scroll_to_unit, scroll and message ?
20120611 21:47:04< shadowm> I don't think that's necessary since the coder can issue a lock immediately afterwards.
20120611 21:48:29< shadowm> Or immediately before. [scroll], [scroll_to] and [scroll_to_unit] already ignore the lock, in any case.
20120611 21:49:57< shadowm> I assume that a coder who will want one of those to _not_ ignore the lock will also be able to conditionally execute them based on the lock status, or will know about it beforehand because they have full control over it, which is usually the case in SP cutscenes.
20120611 21:51:21< shadowm> [message] should theoretically ignore the lock as well.
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