--- Log opened Mon Jun 18 00:00:49 2012
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20120618 00:19:09< AI0867> esr: pong?
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20120618 00:39:55< AI0867> ancestral: I haven't touched it in months, don't know if anyone else has
20120618 00:40:55< AI0867> ancestral: have you specified the proper defines with -d ? Depending on what you're trying to parse, an empty file may be the correct result
20120618 00:45:51< ancestral> You know I might have left that out come to think of it
20120618 00:49:38< ancestral> AI0867: What file would I specify for -d?
20120618 00:49:41< AI0867> well, if you just want the core, it's not needed
20120618 00:49:43< AI0867> not a file
20120618 00:49:47< ancestral> Hmm
20120618 00:49:50< AI0867> it's like, -d MULTIPLAYER
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20120618 00:51:14< ancestral> AI0867: I'm trying to run JSON output again from everything in /data/_main.cfg
20120618 00:52:21< AI0867> then you shouldn't need it
20120618 00:52:23< AI0867> let me try
20120618 00:52:30< ancestral> Thanks
20120618 00:53:25< AI0867> ./data/tools/wesnoth/wmlparser2.py -d data/ -i data/_main.cfg  -w wesnoth -j
20120618 00:53:33< AI0867> that works for me
20120618 00:53:43< ancestral> Hang on lemme give it another shot
20120618 00:53:43< AI0867> from within my trunk checkout
20120618 00:54:03< ancestral> I've tried 1.10 and trunk with a 1.10 executable (yeah, I know, it's not built)
20120618 00:54:12< ancestral> I'll give it another go
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20120618 00:58:52< ancestral> Okay, I have a couple of errors
20120618 00:58:57< ancestral> Let me try in trunk
20120618 01:00:34< ancestral> Trying without relative paths also…
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20120618 01:02:41< ancestral> Alright, I get errors
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20120618 01:05:25< ancestral> This is 1.10: http://pastebin.com/AD8QXm6L
20120618 01:06:58< ancestral> Same error with trunk + 1.10 executable. I haven't built with trunk so I can't test with it
20120618 01:08:51< ancestral> AI0867: Does it matter which version of Python I'm using?
20120618 01:08:58< ancestral> I wonder if that's it
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20120618 01:14:35< ancestral> AI0867: I've got 2.6.6, do I need an earlier version?
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20120618 01:42:35< AI0867> ancestral: 2.6 is fine
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20120618 01:43:47< AI0867> ancestral: that looks like wesnoth refuses to parse your WML tree for some reason
20120618 01:45:51< AI0867> ancestral: can you rerun it from /Applications/Wesnoth.app/Contents/Resources/ with relative paths?
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20120618 01:48:00< ancestral> Sure
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20120618 01:49:57< ancestral> awesome:Resources martinproud$ python ./data/tools/wesnoth/wmlparser2.py -d data/ -i data/_main.cfg -w ../MacOS/Wesnoth -j > ~/Desktop/main.json
20120618 01:51:24< ancestral> Wow, pastebin is naughty today
20120618 01:51:25< ancestral> http://pastebin.com/h0nSksex
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20120618 02:05:13< ancestral> AI0867: Yeah, still no worky. That's with 1.10.3 that I downloaded and installed yesterday. Hmm.
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20120618 02:09:50< AI0867> ancestral: well, I'm out of ideas
20120618 02:10:29< ancestral> That's okay, I'll mess around with it a little. Maybe I can run it on another system in the meantime.
20120618 02:10:47< ancestral> It's promising it's working for someone, anyway
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20120618 02:25:36< AI0867> ancestral: there's a wesnoth invocation in your errorlog somewhere, sounds like it's what wmlparser2 uses
20120618 02:25:43< AI0867> could you invoke that by hand?
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20120618 02:33:04< ancestral> AI0867: You mean the --preprocess bit?
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20120618 02:44:08< AI0867> yeah
20120618 02:47:19< ancestral> So ./Wesnoth --preprocess ../Resources/data/_main.cfg > ~/Desktop/out.txt
20120618 02:47:29< ancestral> terminate called throwing an exceptionAbort trap: 6
20120618 02:52:35< esr> AI0867: I typoed and sent you an interview card in Echo Bazaar (you're the first entry on the drop-down list it generates for me).  Sorry, I know you're not playing much sany more, but would you please accept that one?
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20120618 03:08:46< AI0867> esr: let's see if I can still log in
20120618 03:09:23< AI0867> done
20120618 03:10:21< AI0867> ancestral: that looks like a different error
20120618 03:10:27< AI0867> does out.txt have any contents?
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20120618 03:10:40< ancestral> Zero bytes
20120618 03:12:00< AI0867> and if run from Resources?
20120618 03:13:41< ancestral> ../MacOS/Wesnoth --preprocess data/_main.cfg > ~/Desktop/out.txt   -- same error
20120618 03:14:01< esr> AI0867: Thanks.
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20120618 03:52:09< AI0867> bleh
20120618 03:52:26< AI0867> ancestral: well, I think we can safely call this a bug
20120618 03:52:39< ancestral> Yeah I might file a report thanks
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20120618 07:49:50-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 179 bugs, 339 feature requests, 16 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20120618 15:58:23< David_Mulder> Ok, bit of a weird question, but I am looking for the resolution to the GPL and app store issue from a few years back. I am considering into delving into the wesnoth code and very maybe contributing (although I am a fairly capable full time programmer, I have never developed any professional gaming or graphical stuff), but I wouldn't want my code ever to be contributed to the apple app store (except if I am payed for it like @ work, 
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20120618 16:02:28< shadowm> You can't place further restrictions on your code than those required by the GNU GPL. (Also, your message was truncated at "like @ work,".)
20120618 16:03:19< David_Mulder> o, great, I mentioned I searched in the archives and couldn't find it and asked whether the official conclusion was written somewhere
20120618 16:03:36< David_Mulder> because everybody seemed to agree that technically GPL didn't allow distribution in the app store
20120618 16:04:02< David_Mulder> and there were plans to take out all the code from developers who didn't agree to redistribute their code under a different license
20120618 16:04:10< shadowm> I don't think anyone a consensus was actually reached.
20120618 16:04:14< shadowm> s/anyone//
20120618 16:04:33< David_Mulder> wait... if there isn't a consensus... what in the world is wesnoth doing in the app store :S ?
20120618 16:07:00< shadowm> I guess there wasn't a consensus regarding that either.
20120618 16:08:09< David_Mulder> wait, so just because there wasn't a consensus you all allow your code to be distributed illegally? That doesn't make any sense... as long as there wasn't a consensus the app should have been taken out... right?
20120618 16:08:28< shadowm> I mean that there wasn't a consensus on any such notion of illegality.
20120618 16:08:31< Espreon> Illegal in the eyes of whom?
20120618 16:08:32< fendrin_> hello
20120618 16:08:53< David_Mulder> Illegal if you read the GPL and also in the eyes of the free software foundation which is quite an authority in this field I would say
20120618 16:09:05< shadowm> Sorry, but the copyright holders aren't the FSF.
20120618 16:09:21< shadowm> Each copyright holder has the right to decide how their code should be used.
20120618 16:09:29< David_Mulder> Of course not, I know, but as long as there isn't a consensus to distribute
20120618 16:09:33< David_Mulder> under a different license
20120618 16:09:44< David_Mulder> the only license it has been released under is GPL
20120618 16:10:05< Espreon> fendrin_: Good morning to you.
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20120618 16:10:13< David_Mulder> which is a law-binding piece of text which can be interprented better by the FSF (with lawyers) then by random developers like us :P
20120618 16:10:20< fendrin_> Espreon: Good afternoon to you, my friend :-)
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20120618 16:10:55< Espreon> :)
20120618 16:11:01-!- EdB_ is now known as EdB
20120618 16:11:52< shadowm> I am pretty sure I don't care much about how the FSF thinks I should interpret the GNU GPL when using it for my own code. If someone needs me to lift some of the license's restrictions for a purpose I deem legit, I will gladly do so because I'm not obsessed with the license like some people.
20120618 16:12:09< Espreon> Indeed.
20120618 16:12:12< shadowm> That's just my opinion anyway, and that's pretty much the crux of the issue.
20120618 16:12:23< shadowm> Many of the other copyright holders have different opinions.
20120618 16:12:28< David_Mulder> Oh well, guess I will continue searching for another open source graphical project which cares about free software (I want to get some graphics experience). Either way, good luck with the development of wesnoth, and btw
20120618 16:12:30< shadowm> Some just don't care.
20120618 16:12:35< David_Mulder> the only reason I care about it
20120618 16:12:47< David_Mulder> is not so much that I am obsessed 
20120618 16:12:54< David_Mulder> with the license itself
20120618 16:13:07< shadowm> Can you tell me how the iOS port taints the mainline version, though?
20120618 16:13:09< David_Mulder> but if I put free time in it, I dislike it if a company like Apple earns
20120618 16:13:14< David_Mulder> money from it
20120618 16:13:32< loonycyborg> It doesn't matter from what do they earn their money..
20120618 16:13:33< shadowm> Apple doesn't receive that much from those sales.
20120618 16:13:49< fendrin_> David_Mulder: Yeah, apple receives too much from it. 
20120618 16:14:01< David_Mulder> And right now Apple is getting the benefits of a walled garden (control+money) without the disadvantages (software like this shouldn't be available)
20120618 16:14:07< fendrin_> It's about 30% iirc.
20120618 16:14:57< fendrin_> But that is part of the gpl. Suse and redhat used to sell their distributions as well.
20120618 16:15:12< shadowm> They still do, if you mean Novell and Red Hat.
20120618 16:15:47< David_Mulder> True, but they still comply perfectly to the license
20120618 16:15:57< David_Mulder> In the sense
20120618 16:16:01< David_Mulder> that they earn money from
20120618 16:16:04< David_Mulder> their support
20120618 16:16:10< David_Mulder> whilst without support you can simply take their
20120618 16:16:18< David_Mulder> code and run it for free (centOS for example)
20120618 16:16:25< loonycyborg> David_Mulder: Actually control isn't much of a benefit, they just want it as dictated by their OCD.
20120618 16:16:30< shadowm> The IRC line byte count limit is approx. 510, by the way.
20120618 16:16:31< David_Mulder> with Apple you can't (without paying a $100 developer license)
20120618 16:16:46< shadowm> i.e. no need to keep writing partial sentences in separate lines.
20120618 16:17:05< David_Mulder> True true, I tend to do that sometimes, my bad
20120618 16:17:14< loonycyborg> And it's pointless to argue with mentally ill people. Let them have their 'control'.
20120618 16:17:31< shadowm> I am going to ask again, how does the iOS port somehow make the mainline version less free?
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20120618 16:19:27< David_Mulder> First of all, guess you haven't had any first hand contact with Apple in that case (they are horrible in their randomness) and as I said, if I would contribute code, I want anybody anywhere to be able to run it without any restrictions... if that's not possible on Apple hardware people should realise that and not buy apple devices rather than getting something that shouldn't be there
20120618 16:19:45< loonycyborg> Basically, I think there are far more disadvantages to the walled garden than lack of free software like wesnoth.
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20120618 16:21:43< Espreon> Sadly, the consumer just doesn't care...
20120618 16:21:45< loonycyborg> David_Mulder: Actually I'm pretty sure that it's possible to compile wesnoth on apple hardware no matter what.
20120618 16:21:46< shadowm> Wanting people to be able to run Wesnoth on any device without restrictions seems a little far-fetched. I'm pretty sure Apple's platform isn't the only one where Wesnoth could be made to run regardless of the users' freedom to do so.
20120618 16:22:13< shadowm> loonycyborg: iOS, not Mac OS X.
20120618 16:22:37< loonycyborg> And you can't make a personal build for iOS?
20120618 16:23:02< David_Mulder> Back again (got called by a colleague, should be working now but making plans for the summer :P ) either way, nope, you can't run anything on iOS except through the App store 
20120618 16:23:02< the_new_lipk> you can't sideload apps on iOS afaik
20120618 16:23:09< shadowm> loonycyborg: No idea.
20120618 16:23:15< David_Mulder> and true, there are devices where you can't run it because the technology doesn't allow it
20120618 16:23:21< shadowm> David_Mulder: Isn't jailbreaking a thing?
20120618 16:23:27< loonycyborg> Well. That sucks.
20120618 16:23:36< Espreon> Yeah, about all the jailbreaking magicks?
20120618 16:23:39< David_Mulder> True@jailbreaking, but that's illegal in a lot of countries (not in the US)
20120618 16:23:51< David_Mulder> and jailbreaking is currenlty possible, but the number of exploitable bugs is decreasing
20120618 16:23:54< Espreon> (It shouldn't be...)
20120618 16:23:56< shadowm> Well, it shouldn't be, AFAIK.
20120618 16:23:58< David_Mulder> so in a few years that won't be an option anymore
20120618 16:24:05< Espreon> (But remember, it's only illegal if you get caught)
20120618 16:24:16< David_Mulder> no, it's illegal irrelevant from getting caught
20120618 16:24:45< shadowm> I meant "shouldn't" as it "it doesn't make sense for that to be illegal".
20120618 16:24:49< Espreon> (No one has to know...)
20120618 16:24:52< shadowm> It's not our fight anyway.
20120618 16:25:15< David_Mulder> It is, as developers we should make sure that companies like Apple won't survive 
20120618 16:25:19< David_Mulder> and every little bit helps in this
20120618 16:25:29< shadowm> Haha. Yeah. We are going to take Apple down...
20120618 16:25:43< David_Mulder> every little bit helps, I mean, recently I convinced a client
20120618 16:25:45< shadowm> Haven't people been trying to do the same thing with Microsoft for two decades?
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20120618 16:26:10< David_Mulder> indirectly to buy android devices (a lot) instead of ipads... it's not much, but it definitly countes
20120618 16:26:10< Espreon> Yeah... that's great and all, but we're not taking down Apple anytime soon.
20120618 16:26:25< Espreon> It's better to just reap the benefits and get stuff done with teh moniez.
20120618 16:26:27< shadowm> AFAIK Android is a whole different can of worms.
20120618 16:26:38< shadowm> Not that I care a lot since I don't want to use either platform.
20120618 16:27:08< David_Mulder> In what sense@android, true, technically it's a horror story sometimes :P but technically it's fair enough from a developer point of view
20120618 16:27:10< David_Mulder> and btw
20120618 16:27:53< David_Mulder> you can say that we - as developers - can't influence apple, but we - as developers - did convince a lot of smartphone makers to take their bootlockers out
20120618 16:28:04< shadowm> What I don't understand is why some people want to turn Wesnoth into a platform for software politics when it was never meant to be any such.
20120618 16:28:09< Espreon> *We* didn't do anything.
20120618 16:28:16< shadowm> Dave just wanted to write a fun game. :p
20120618 16:28:25< Espreon> I especially didn't do anything.
20120618 16:29:16< shadowm> That is, the GNU GPL is meant to be our tool, not our goal.
20120618 16:29:23< David_Mulder> Then you should have kept it closed source and nobody would have helped you out probably...
20120618 16:29:36< shadowm> I am not Dave.
20120618 16:29:40< shadowm> :p
20120618 16:29:45< Espreon> And why would that have been done?
20120618 16:30:02< fendrin_> I can understand David_Mulder's concerns. But it isn't our fight as shadowm already said.
20120618 16:30:03< David_Mulder> the beuatiful thing about licenses is that you know what you can except if you decide to work on a project
20120618 16:30:30< David_Mulder> and if you know that a project isn't comply'ing to it's own license... well... that's just odd... 
20120618 16:30:42< shadowm> We are complying to our own license.
20120618 16:30:53< shadowm> The iOS port is not maintained by _us_.
20120618 16:30:55< fendrin_> David_Mulder: Well, then Welcome to Wesnoth if you like the GPL. Feel free to take any legal actions against apple.
20120618 16:31:13< Espreon> No legal action, please.
20120618 16:31:18< Espreon> We like our moniez.
20120618 16:31:25< Espreon> ... it helps get things done around here.
20120618 16:31:32< David_Mulder> Want me to quote the license@shodowm?
20120618 16:31:47< fendrin_> Espreon: Well, the iphone wesnoth app is a fraud.
20120618 16:31:50< shadowm> How would that negate what I just said?
20120618 16:31:56< loonycyborg> I'm not even sure that the guy who made apple port is still active..
20120618 16:32:02< fendrin_> It doesn't work well but takes peoples money.
20120618 16:32:18< shadowm> I already said we don't maintain the iOS port. The license doesn't decide who the maintainer is.
20120618 16:32:18< fendrin_> We don't do ourselves a favour in taking that profit.
20120618 16:32:19< loonycyborg> ios port I mean
20120618 16:32:21< Espreon> But we're given a portion of it...
20120618 16:32:24< Espreon> ... right?
20120618 16:32:32< Espreon> I thought that's what I've read.
20120618 16:32:33< fendrin_> Well, sadly yes.
20120618 16:32:40< Espreon> Sadly? Are you out of your mind?
20120618 16:32:40< shadowm> Espreon: I suspect at this point Wesnoth earns more from GSoC than the port.
20120618 16:32:45< Espreon> It's getting... ART made!
20120618 16:32:47< Espreon> ART!
20120618 16:32:50< David_Mulder> http://lwn.net/Articles/396535/ this is the most extensive article about it
20120618 16:32:50< Espreon> BLACK MAGICK!
20120618 16:33:27< David_Mulder> so yeah, the artists are getting money from it whilst the developers are not AFAIK and have read (a few articles I could find)
20120618 16:33:30< shadowm> David_Mulder: Sorry, why are you linking to an external article about us to try to explain our own situation to us insiders?
20120618 16:33:46< David_Mulder> because espreon
20120618 16:33:46< shadowm> There's something very weird about that.
20120618 16:33:54< David_Mulder> was showing uncertainty
20120618 16:34:08< David_Mulder> concerning the legal construction between Wesnoth and the developer of the port
20120618 16:34:29< David_Mulder> so by quoting an external article which explains it (even if incompletely) is better than you insiders
20120618 16:34:34< shadowm> Anyway what I meant here: 10:32:39 <shadowm> Espreon: I suspect at this point Wesnoth earns more from GSoC than the port.
20120618 16:34:40< David_Mulder> who weren't sure about the details right now
20120618 16:34:40< shadowm> is that IIRC sales have decreased.
20120618 16:34:44< shadowm> It helps that the port is badly outdated.
20120618 16:35:16< Espreon> ... Indeed.
20120618 16:35:21< Espreon> Well, it *did* help at one point.
20120618 16:35:26< Espreon> ... I've read...
20120618 16:35:31< Espreon> ... Blargh it all.
20120618 16:36:11< shadowm> Okay, that article certainly doesn't cite any meeting notes since those weren't published.
20120618 16:36:19< David_Mulder> Oh well, maybe I will drop a line to apple and who knows, I will have quite a bit of time this summer, so in the end I might delve into wesnoth :P who knows who knows
20120618 16:36:30< Espreon> Hoo boy...
20120618 16:36:34< David_Mulder> @shadowm: that's why I got here to ask what conclusions where reached back then
20120618 16:36:38< shadowm> In fact the meeting happened on August 1st.
20120618 16:36:54< shadowm> David_Mulder: You may have better luck asking noy directly about it.
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20120618 16:37:16< David_Mulder> I would love to know how :P ?
20120618 16:37:35< shadowm> Forum PM, for example.
20120618 16:37:36< shadowm> But seriously, I fail to see why the existence of the iOS port should be a reason to not contribute to the mainline version.
20120618 16:38:00< fendrin_> Yes, since the ios port is dying away anyway.
20120618 16:38:02< Espreon> He probably doesn't want there to be any chance for his code to be put in such a vile thing.
20120618 16:38:15< Espreon> I dunno.
20120618 16:38:20< shadowm> Espreon: In that case he should be able to tell me that himself. You can stop second-guessing now.
20120618 16:38:22< Espreon> I really don't care what is done with my stuff.
20120618 16:38:29< David_Mulder> Haha, yeah sort of, I have had enough trouble with Apple already :P
20120618 16:38:29< gabba> ejls: Hi
20120618 16:38:48< David_Mulder> Hmm~ will try that@pm, normally people don't tend to read that
20120618 16:39:02< shadowm> David_Mulder: sorry? I said forum PM.
20120618 16:39:45< shadowm> I'm sure he can read that since he's one of the forum admin.
20120618 16:39:46< shadowm> *s
20120618 16:40:16< shadowm> (Although I wonder what the "people don't tend to read that" part really referred to.)
20120618 16:40:24< David_Mulder> @shadowm: yeah, i realized that~@forum pm, I was simply abbreviating it (and wow this web irc client is badly frustrating, miss my home one)
20120618 16:41:17< David_Mulder> And most developers get spammed so many forum notes that they tend to let it pile up if it's not from fellow developers... I have done the same thing with my mail box (hate giving support on older open source projects... quite a selfish thing)
20120618 16:41:44< shadowm> I for one don't get spammed like that, and we don't use the forums for developer-developer communication anyway.
20120618 16:43:32< ejls> gabba: Hey
20120618 16:43:47< shadowm> I do suspect you are thinking of developers in general, not dedicated Wesnoth developers in particular.
20120618 16:45:00< gabba> ejls: Howdy, how are you?
20120618 16:45:24< ejls> ejls: Fine, fine, and you?
20120618 16:47:03< David_Mulder> back again, and yeah, I was thinking about developers in general
20120618 16:48:25< gabba> ejls: I'm good, thanks :)
20120618 16:48:33< gabba> as I said I'll be half-afk until 16h GMT, but you can already ask me questions
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20120618 16:49:51< David_Mulder> Btw, what do you guys think, would it be possible to use emscripten to run wesnoth in the browser https://github.com/kripken/emscripten (if you haven't heard about it, it might be worth considering, it translates LLVM bitcode to javascript executable code and supports quite a number of native features with 'fakes').
20120618 16:50:18-!- horon [~horon@nttkyo216070.tkyo.nt.ngn2.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...]
20120618 16:50:30< ejls> gabba: well, first, should I write something in the changelog?
20120618 16:50:47< ejls> gabba: if yes, in which changelog?
20120618 16:51:07 * shadowm only knows he prefers running Wesnoth natively.
20120618 16:52:30< David_Mulder> Emscripten tends to be 3 till 4 times slower only I have heard say and it does make the potential audience a *lot* bigger (+solves the iOS issue, but that's irrelevant now :P)
20120618 16:53:17< ejls> gabba: Also, some functions (like unit_has_actions) are taking pointer but use them as if they weren't NULL. I suppose I can rewrite them to use references?
20120618 16:55:10 * the_new_lipk finds LLVM evil 'cause it's financed by Apple
20120618 16:56:09< David_Mulder> @the_new_lipk: It's still released under a BSD-style licencse, but you have a point
20120618 16:56:29< David_Mulder> Either way, if you are curious, check out this presentation by mozilla: http://syntensity.com/static/splashpres.pdf
20120618 16:57:09< gabba> ejls: put something only in the changelog, not in the player_changelog, since there are no player-visible changes (unless you also fix the bug, of course)
20120618 16:57:57< gabba> changing those methods to take references sounds fine
20120618 16:58:07< shadowm> the_new_lipk: wesnoth.org is evil because its hosting is financed by the iOS port.
20120618 16:58:46< David_Mulder> shadowm: valid point as well of course :P
20120618 16:59:30< shadowm> Suddenly I feel much better about the whole forum admin business.
20120618 16:59:34< the_new_lipk> artisticdude is evil because he uses a mac
20120618 16:59:46 * the_new_lipk stops trolling
20120618 16:59:48< ejls> gabba: Speaking of this bug, I have strictly no idea of its origin, but there is a lot of code using possibly-NULL pointers as non-NULL pointers. I suppose I can commit my change while letting it unfixed? For now, I don't know the code outside of side_actions well enough to be able to guess what the problem is, but I suppose working on enable_visit_all will help me.
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20120618 17:00:56< ejls> gabba: Maybe a call to on_gamestate_change or something similar is missing?
20120618 17:01:38< ejls> gabba: It's because it can't find the owner of a move that it segfaults (the underlying id is not present in the unit_map).
20120618 17:07:22< gabba> ejls: yeah, since the bug isn't your fault you can commit anyways
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20120618 17:09:16< gabba> ejls: not sure about the cause myself, I'll look into it on my end as well
20120618 17:09:29< the_new_lipk> hey mattsc
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20120618 17:11:15< gabba> ejls: if it happens only in network games on other clients, it probably means that we're trying to use underlying_id to find the same unit on both clients, but it doesn't work
20120618 17:11:51< gabba> or we're assuming the unit is still around when we should be doing a validation, as you said
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20120618 17:15:15< mattsc> the_new_lipk, hi
20120618 17:15:51< ejls> And last question, in side_actions::get_turn_num_of, 0 is returned if the unit has no action planned… so does it if the unit has only one action planned on turn 0… this doesn't sound right, should I return -1 instead (and change the return type)?
20120618 17:15:56< the_new_lipk> mattsc, I've been trying to use your cowardly AI in a scenario and ran into a strange problem
20120618 17:16:00< ejls> gabba: ^
20120618 17:16:43< the_new_lipk> mattsc, when I attempt to make lots of cowards (15-20) the engine crashes
20120618 17:17:22< the_new_lipk> mattsc, it is likely not your fault but I guess you could do a better job debugging it
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20120618 17:17:45< mattsc> the_new_lipk: hmm, let me try something really quickly (just to see if it's a general problem)
20120618 17:18:20< the_new_lipk> (speaking about trunk)
20120618 17:18:29< Nephro> the_new_lipk, can you please show the crash dump?
20120618 17:18:43< the_new_lipk> Nephro, sure, wait a minute
20120618 17:20:48< mattsc> the_new_lipk: brief question first: are you using the code from the wiki or from AI Demos (I forgot whether those are exactly the same atm)
20120618 17:21:22< the_new_lipk> mattsc, I ripped it from AI Demos
20120618 17:21:54< mattsc> the_new_lipk: that's good, that should be the most up to date version
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20120618 17:22:56< the_new_lipk> Nephro, I'm having a problem... the crash freezes my terminal at the same time... stand by...
20120618 17:23:23< Nephro> the_new_lipk, if you can send me a scenario file I can launch it myself
20120618 17:26:02< the_new_lipk> Nephro, here you go http://pastebin.com/6PYiKitj
20120618 17:26:44< Nephro> nah, this tells me nothing
20120618 17:27:21< the_new_lipk> I can send you the scenario if it's better
20120618 17:27:30< the_new_lipk> ...or just the problematic code
20120618 17:27:43< Nephro> send the whole thing, I will just launch it and see
20120618 17:27:54< mattsc> the_new_lipk, Nephro: hold on for a moment, I am testing something here also
20120618 17:28:25< the_new_lipk> Nephro, are you 'Nephro' on the forums as well?
20120618 17:28:44< Nephro> the_new_lipk, yes, but I am not too active ther
20120618 17:28:50< Nephro> there*
20120618 17:29:15< the_new_lipk> that matters little right now :P
20120618 17:30:07< mattsc> the_new_lipk: I just tried with 20 coward in 1.10.3. no problem.  Let me try with trunk...
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20120618 17:32:31< mattsc> no problem either (although this isn't quite the latest revision).  So maybe you should show us your code.
20120618 17:34:52< gabba> ejls: about get_turn_num_of, I can't easily check now where it's used, but it does sound like there's a wrong assumption on the return value - feel free to change the return type
20120618 17:36:04< ejls> gabba: Ok, thanks, I'm going home now. I'll commit the change in the week. :)
20120618 17:36:04< gabba> ejls: You've got turn numbering figured out, it starts at zero isn't it?
20120618 17:36:17< ejls> Yeah, except in some log output.
20120618 17:36:33< gabba> that would be a good thing to uniformize
20120618 17:36:46< ejls> Yep, it's what I did.
20120618 17:36:50< gabba> maybe that method assumed the wrong numbering, who knows
20120618 17:36:54< gabba> thanks :)
20120618 17:38:44< the_new_lipk> mattsc, Nephro, sent you the code
20120618 17:39:42< ejls> gabba: Well, thanks for your answer and for your mail. Should I send you another "final" patch before commiting?
20120618 17:41:39< gabba> ejls: no it's ok, go ahead - just make sure to make some final tests
20120618 17:42:03< gabba> see ya, keep up the good work :)
20120618 17:42:19< ejls> gabba: Yeah, of course. Thanks, bye! :)
20120618 17:47:47< the_new_lipk> Nephro, mattsc, what is weird about the bug is that it's utterly random. Sometimes it succeeds in adding 15 cowards, but if I try to add 16, it crashes attempting to create 12th or so.
20120618 17:48:55< Nephro> the_new_lipk, how should I launch it?
20120618 17:49:24< the_new_lipk> did you unpack it to data/add-ons?
20120618 17:49:34< Nephro> yes
20120618 17:49:49< the_new_lipk> then launch wesnoth and go to campaign selection
20120618 17:50:11< mattsc> the_new_lipk: working on it.  I'm getting crashes because of music files not found.  So I'll have to comment out some lines...
20120618 17:50:24< the_new_lipk> ...there should be a campaign called "Back to the Underworld"
20120618 17:50:38< the_new_lipk> I set the critical scenario to be the first
20120618 17:51:02< mattsc> Actually, Wesnoth should not crash to Desktop if it cannot find a music file, should it?
20120618 17:51:23< the_new_lipk> no, and actually I don't think it does...
20120618 17:51:26< mattsc> Oh, no, that's not the reason.  My bad.
20120618 17:52:04< mattsc> I think I am running into the error you describe (just that I did not expect the critical scenario to be the first)
20120618 17:53:30< the_new_lipk> it is probable that I didn't copy everything from AI demos I should have; however, it works fine with two or three cowards
20120618 17:53:56< the_new_lipk> ...and it shouldn't crash anyways
20120618 17:54:56< mattsc> Well, the crash might be related to a known problem that Nephro is already working on
20120618 17:58:00< mattsc> the_new_lipk: It looks like I still get a crash even if I delete everything AI related from the scenario...
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20120618 17:58:58< Nephro> I can't get to the crash, cause I don't have some helper file
20120618 17:59:14< the_new_lipk> mattsc, that is strange, it works fine for me if I comment out the FOREACH sequence
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20120618 17:59:44< mattsc> the_new_lipk: Ah, crap, apparently I am not awake yet today...  Hold on (again)  
20120618 18:00:21< Nephro> where do I get the ai_helper.lua ?
20120618 18:01:20< mattsc> the_new_lipk: yes, you're right.  I'm an idiot!
20120618 18:01:29< the_new_lipk> Nephro, ohhh.... apparently I forgot to copy that. download AI Modification Demos from the add-ons server
20120618 18:01:37< the_new_lipk> mattsc, okay :P
20120618 18:03:27< mattsc> Nephro: yes, that's one of my files.  And the_new_lipk still has it linked in from the AI Demos campaign.
20120618 18:05:04< Nephro> aw the sticky ca's
20120618 18:05:11< Nephro> yeah, that thing is broken
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20120618 18:08:39< mattsc> Nephro, no they work just fine in all my scenarios
20120618 18:08:56< Nephro> mattsc, have you tried save/load?
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20120618 18:09:41< mattsc> Nephro: not here (because I never get there), but in other contexts, yes.
20120618 18:10:03< mattsc> The problem is only with [add_ai_behavior], which I am not using, and then only if you are trying to remove sticky CA's.
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20120618 18:10:10< mattsc> The sticky AI's themselves are just fine
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20120618 18:12:37< mattsc> the_new_lipk: still trying to figure out what is going on...
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20120618 18:16:29< Nephro> the_new_lipk, mattsc how are the coords for the animals calculated?
20120618 18:16:59< the_new_lipk> Nephro, I've got no clue, look up the SCATTER_UNITS macro in core
20120618 18:17:15< mattsc> the_new_lipk: found it, I think
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20120618 18:19:13< mattsc> the_new_lipk: it has indeed nothing to do with the AI, but with SCATTER_UNITS
20120618 18:19:51< the_new_lipk> ...
20120618 18:20:02< mattsc> I must be doing something like also choosing terrain on the border, which the creates problems in combination with the AI...
20120618 18:21:12< the_new_lipk> yeah, that could make sense
20120618 18:21:33< the_new_lipk> it explains why does it work sometimes
20120618 18:21:34< mattsc> I added 'x,y=1-27,1-32' to the terrain filter in the macro and added 100 coward units, no problem
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20120618 18:22:23 * Nephro is relieved
20120618 18:22:33< the_new_lipk> then I guess it's time to ping zookeeper...
20120618 18:22:38< the_new_lipk> zookeeper: ping
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20120618 18:24:00< the_new_lipk> Nephro, mattsc, thanks for the assistance
20120618 18:24:13< mattsc> the_new_lipk: np
20120618 18:24:35< mattsc> Btw, you can delete the FAI code from the side definition, unless you also use home guardians
20120618 18:25:02< the_new_lipk> ok, thankies
20120618 18:25:54< the_new_lipk> mattsc, and I wanted to discuss something else with you as well if you got some more time...
20120618 18:26:07< mattsc> the_new_lipk: sure
20120618 18:26:46< the_new_lipk> I was wondering if you could implement a swarm AI. Swarm intelligence is pretty cool in general
20120618 18:27:27< mattsc> the_new_lipk: probably - but tell me what exactly you want to see before I commit to it  :)
20120618 18:27:29< the_new_lipk> (not sure if 'swarm intelligence' is the correct term, though)
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20120618 18:29:30< the_new_lipk> mattsc, it is rather simple, in fact. You've got a big swarm of atomic elements, which follow trivial rules mainly based on the behaviour of the others, and these interactions make the mass behave intelligently
20120618 18:31:23< the_new_lipk> one of the best example is 'salmon and the shark'. The salmon are swimming in a big group. All of them has just a few things in mind:
20120618 18:31:32< the_new_lipk> 1, stay away from the shark
20120618 18:31:41< the_new_lipk> 2, stay close to the others
20120618 18:32:28< the_new_lipk> and when the shark attacks, the group can dissolve and the regroup in just a few seconds
20120618 18:32:48< the_new_lipk> *then
20120618 18:33:19< mattsc> the_new_lipk: as long as these rules (and their relative weights) can be written down in equations, that's not a problem.  I'd also need to know if there's an order in which the units in the swarm move
20120618 18:33:29< the_new_lipk> try to do the same with people; they will tread eachother to death
20120618 18:33:46< mattsc> :)
20120618 18:35:03< mattsc> In fact, the 'Wolves' AI that I just put on the aerver yesterday does pretty much that, just on the predator side, rather than the prey side
20120618 18:37:24< the_new_lipk> mattsc, a fun thing to play around with could be to let the units make 'signs', for e.g. the 'feeding frenzy' effect: an attacking unit would make the others more aggressive, too
20120618 18:39:05< mattsc> the_new_lipk: hmm, not exactly sure how you mean that (as the wolves currently are 100% aggressive, unless attacking would split up the pack)
20120618 18:39:15< the_new_lipk> I don't really have more concrete ideas... I just thought it could be amusing to program such AIs, since they tend to turn out more intelligent than expected
20120618 18:40:18< the_new_lipk> mattsc, for e.g., you walk into a beehive. The bees are generally friendly, but if you attack one, it will turn aggressive, and also stimulate the others
20120618 18:40:36< mattsc> Oh, I see.
20120618 18:40:56< mattsc> Something like that is easy.
20120618 18:42:47< mattsc> the_new_lipk: I'll think about the (prey) swarm thing a bit.  I can probably reuse large parts of what I have and simply combine it with different rules.  If you have more concrete ideas, let me know.
20120618 18:43:44< the_new_lipk> another application, a group searching for something. They can give signs such as 'nothing to see here', 'need some help', 'look, I found it', and then watch them crawling through the map searching
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20120618 18:44:28< the_new_lipk> That would be eventually an AI which works in fog, too :P
20120618 18:45:43< mattsc> The problem is coming up with strict rules (equations) for something like "I need _some_ help", other than that that can certainly be done.
20120618 18:46:40< mattsc> And the AI currently ignores fog, but if you wanted an allied AI that clears the fog for you, that's an option.
20120618 18:49:02< the_new_lipk> mattsc, hmmm... I'm afraid you still don't really get what is the real fun in this ;) I might try to put together an example what I'm thinking about the other day
20120618 18:49:25< the_new_lipk> *example of
20120618 18:49:32< mattsc> That's quite possible.  :)  Sounds good.
20120618 18:51:44< mattsc> If you mean having the AI develop it's behavior itself, rather than telling it what to do, well, the program still requires equations of some sort.  ;)
20120618 18:51:53< mattsc> *its
20120618 18:53:10< the_new_lipk> yeah, the really amazing about these structures is that they work with very simple and strict rules (or equations) and still produce amazing results
20120618 18:55:16< mattsc> right.  But you still need those rules, even if they are very simple.  "Stay away from the shark" doesn't quite work for a computer.  ;)
20120618 18:55:18< the_new_lipk> It's a bit like recursive algorithms; it often looks simple but can perform very complicated tasks
20120618 18:56:09< the_new_lipk> meh. Do I have to do all the work? :)
20120618 18:57:15< mattsc> No.  :)  I said up there that I';; think about it.  ;)
20120618 18:57:15< zookeeper> the_new_lipk, hmh?
20120618 18:58:06< the_new_lipk> zookeeper, SCATTER_UNITS is evil, it throws units out of the map
20120618 18:58:25< the_new_lipk> ...or more precisely, places them on the border
20120618 18:58:53< the_new_lipk> I don't think that is desired...
20120618 18:59:10< zookeeper> right
20120618 18:59:28< zookeeper> i can see why/how it'd do that, gimme a moment to check...
20120618 19:01:05< zookeeper> okay... so, i presume it's because [store_locations] also stores border hexes. assuming that's true, then it does by so default, and there's no way to tell it not to.
20120618 19:01:26< zookeeper> except, of course, by specifying the coordinates so that they don't include the borders
20120618 19:02:11< mattsc> zookeeper: yes, that is all correct (both the problem and the solution to it)
20120618 19:02:54< the_new_lipk> zookeeper, or store the map dimensions inside SCATTER_UNITS and add the extra filter automatically
20120618 19:03:01< zookeeper> well, the thing is that IMO SLF absolutely needs a borders=yes|no or similar
20120618 19:03:02< mattsc> I've encountered that before in some of my AI code and that's how I've worked around it (with [store_locations], not the macro)
20120618 19:03:25< zookeeper> the_new_lipk, sure, that'd be a workaround, but a pretty messy one
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20120618 19:03:47< zookeeper> i suggest doing the following...
20120618 19:03:50 * zookeeper summons sapient
20120618 19:04:20< zookeeper> that is, unless someone else wants to add a similar feature ;)
20120618 19:05:00< boucman> hey all 
20120618 19:05:03< boucman> bloodycoin_m: around ?
20120618 19:05:18< the_new_lipk> zookeeper, I'll let you decide, since now I know how to fix it in my scenario, I pretty much don't care :P
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20120618 19:07:14< zookeeper> the_new_lipk, okay. i'll ask what sapient thinks first, i don't want to write such an ugly workaround if it can be avoided
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20120618 19:09:13< mattsc> the_new_lipk: as for the swarm AI, sounds like we think that it's fun for similar reasons (I'm just also thinking ahead to the practical implementation).  If you want to see something specific, let me know, otherwise you might be stuck with the way how I think it's fun.  ;)
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20120618 19:12:39< bloodycoin_m> boucman: yep
20120618 19:13:02< boucman> so what's up, I havn't seen some code in quite some time now, and time is flying..
20120618 19:13:29< bloodycoin_m> I did push like 3 hours ago...
20120618 19:13:57< bloodycoin_m> I spent half week at least with university stuff since last commit... -.-
20120618 19:14:29< boucman> ok I havn't checked in the last three hours, looking...
20120618 19:14:30< bloodycoin_m> and I was having some serious fights with segfaults..
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20120618 19:24:11< boucman> bloodycoin_m: on first look it looks fine (though I avoid commenting code, I simply get it back out of git, but that's a detail)
20120618 19:26:08< bloodycoin_m> I don't usually do that too, but that wasn't in git and/or I forgot to remove it before commit
20120618 19:29:38< bloodycoin_m> boucman: also I play to squash most of my commits into few before committing to svm repo
20120618 19:30:07< boucman> do as you feel, but remember that doing lots of small commits helps me when reviewing...
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20120618 19:39:48< bloodycoin_m> boucman: I guess I should make my copy of some campaign, to test how effects should be described in wml..
20120618 19:40:28< boucman> yes integration to units seems fine as it is, now you need to add some wml
20120618 19:40:47< boucman> so do you need some guidance on that ?
20120618 19:41:38< bloodycoin_m> I wouldn't mind some guidance :)
20120618 19:46:12< boucman> ok
20120618 19:47:22< boucman> ok, so your entry point is unit_animation::subanimation::subanimation int unit_animation.cpp:733
20120618 19:48:05< boucman> this constructor has two parameters. the config object is the whole animation WML (parsed into a cfg object) and the frame_string is the name of our subanimation
20120618 19:49:34< boucman> could you open data/core/units/humans/Horseman.cfg ?
20120618 19:49:40< boucman> we will use it as an example
20120618 19:49:50< bloodycoin_m> 3 secs
20120618 19:49:50-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 180 bugs, 339 feature requests, 16 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20120618 19:49:59< boucman> k, tell me when you are done
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20120618 19:50:21< bloodycoin_m> done
20120618 19:51:58< boucman> ok, go at the very bottom 
20120618 19:52:14< boucman> to the very last [attack_anim] block
20120618 19:52:18< bloodycoin_m> attack_anim block?
20120618 19:52:33< boucman> yes, at the bottom...
20120618 19:52:34< bloodycoin_m> mm..
20120618 19:52:49< boucman> starts line 53 ends line 67
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20120618 19:55:03< boucman> you good ?
20120618 19:55:08< bloodycoin_m> yep
20120618 19:56:01< boucman> ok, so that animation contains multiple frames, one is the [sound_frame] block
20120618 19:56:28< boucman> the others are hidden in the ATTACK_ANIM_QUAD_DIRECTIONAL_12_FRAME macro
20120618 19:57:17< boucman> hmm
20120618 19:58:09 * boucman is wondering why I pushed you to attach to frame and not anim now..
20120618 19:58:35 * bloodycoin_m rolls eyes...
20120618 19:58:42< boucman> oh wait, I see now
20120618 19:58:49< bloodycoin_m> hehe
20120618 19:58:51< boucman> :P
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20120618 19:59:27< boucman> however I am not sure it was a good idea now that I look at it. 
20120618 19:59:34< boucman> but don't worry, I'll do the moving around
20120618 20:00:29< bloodycoin_m> I think the main argument was, that we could attach effect to projectiles...
20120618 20:00:55< boucman> ok, I need to think about it a bit
20120618 20:01:08< bloodycoin_m> but imho, that could be achieved, by attaching different effect to the same animation, depenting on wml part... (just my 2 cents)
20120618 20:01:40< boucman> the main argument was that we wanted to attach multiple efects to an animation, defined orthogonally
20120618 20:02:20< boucman> and since we can only inherit once from effect_user...
20120618 20:02:27< bloodycoin_m> what exactly do you mean by "defined orthogonally"?
20120618 20:02:36< boucman> not knowing about each other
20120618 20:02:42< bloodycoin_m> oh, ok
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20120618 20:03:35< bloodycoin_m> soo... if effect_user keeps a lits of effects, it not very orthagonal then?
20120618 20:03:56< bloodycoin_m> sopposing it's attached to animationa nd not subanimation
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20120618 20:04:06< bloodycoin_m> /s/nd/and
20120618 20:04:13< boucman> no, that would be good enough, as long as the WML is orthogonal... unit_animation would have to reimplement a big chunk of effect_user's methods
20120618 20:04:41< boucman> or we can have unit_animation contain a vector of effect_user reimplementations instead of being one itself
20120618 20:04:54< boucman> independantly of the frame mechanism, that would make more sense
20120618 20:06:06< boucman> yes, we give unit_animation a list of effect_user (or a reimplementation of it if need be) and we keep that separate from particle
20120618 20:06:29< bloodycoin_m> I where it is going :)
20120618 20:06:51 * boucman feels bad for making your run around so much
20120618 20:07:09< boucman> I have a bit of time right now, i'll give it a try right now if you want
20120618 20:09:36< bloodycoin_m> why not make effect_user handle arbitrary number of effects in general, and create effect_user member inside unit_animation (or even somewhere higher)
20120618 20:09:56< boucman> hmm
20120618 20:12:53< boucman> why not, 
20120618 20:13:23< boucman> I am a bit worried about synchronizing effects and animations, but that should be fine
20120618 20:13:38< bloodycoin_m> that way there could be as few as 0 effects, and as many as N
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20120618 20:14:25< boucman> in that case we move effect_user in units up a level to unit_animation (that's a trivial change) and start working on WML
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20120618 20:15:26< bloodycoin_m> sure
20120618 20:16:28< boucman> ok so two possible next steps, 
20120618 20:16:36< boucman> having multiple effects in effect_user
20120618 20:16:48< boucman> or start working on WML
20120618 20:16:54< boucman> you have a favorite ?
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20120618 20:18:01< bloodycoin_m> wml... because multiple effects are "rather easy" and will do it anyways somewhere in between
20120618 20:19:27< bloodycoin_m> and it's even more so easy, when I made effects malloced and particle_engine cleans unused ones
20120618 20:19:44< boucman> ok, makes sense
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20120618 20:21:12< boucman> so your new entry point is unit_animation::unit_animation at line 188 of unit_animation.cpp
20120618 20:21:46< boucman> at that point you get a config object which is the whole animation wml (for instance the complete [attack_anim] block in Horeseman.cfg)
20120618 20:22:07< boucman> this is a config object as described in config.cfg
20120618 20:22:44< boucman> did you have a look at that class yet ?
20120618 20:23:18< the_new_lipk> *config.cpp
20120618 20:23:21< bloodycoin_m> quick look... I find that I learn think better by use...
20120618 20:23:38< boucman> thx the_new_lipk
20120618 20:23:42< boucman> ok
20120618 20:24:07< bloodycoin_m> /s/think/
20120618 20:24:15< boucman> it is inspired by stl containers and have some similar semantics
20120618 20:24:52< boucman> for instance all_children_range() will return an iterator on all sub [] blocks
20120618 20:25:27< boucman> you have an ordered_begin() and an ordered_end() to get iterators on the begin and ends on which you can iterate as usuall...
20120618 20:26:16< boucman> child_range(std::string key) will return all childs with a given key
20120618 20:26:52< boucman> the various child calls return allow to access individual child blocks
20120618 20:27:13< boucman> operator [] allows access to attributes
20120618 20:27:32< boucman> so there is not much to explain, you'll get the hang of it pretty fast
20120618 20:27:58< boucman> Did you give some thought to the actual effect syntax on the WML side ?
20120618 20:28:00< bloodycoin_m> mm... atm I see as combination of map/dict and list
20120618 20:28:30< boucman> internally yes, but you should really think of it as an stl structure and not try to access the internals 
20120618 20:29:32< bloodycoin_m> strange... I was looking at external part of it, not internal.. :)
20120618 20:29:41< boucman> hmm
20120618 20:29:54< boucman> where did you see accessible dicts...
20120618 20:30:08< bloodycoin_m> python?
20120618 20:30:15< boucman> oh :P
20120618 20:30:19< bloodycoin_m> :)
20120618 20:30:44< boucman> well, we are looking at the c++ right now :)
20120618 20:31:47< bloodycoin_m> but it's c++ internally, and and the external part should be more or less generic between languages :)
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20120618 20:33:13< boucman> yes and no... different languages have different philosophy, and different tools
20120618 20:33:40< boucman> for instance std::set are not like python dict at all, they arn't as convinient nor as optimized (static language don't optimize in the same way)
20120618 20:33:51< boucman> but we digress, did you give the actual syntas some thoughts ?
20120618 20:34:33< bloodycoin_m> aside from that... I though of doing [effect] block and describe effect attributes inside (type, particle variation, particle lifetime)
20120618 20:35:52< boucman> ok, let's start from that, could you write a typical particle in a pastebin somewhere so I can look at it and comment ?
20120618 20:37:43< bloodycoin_m> python has set for representing set, and yes comparing dynamic languages with compiled ones is like comparing shoes with wheels with levitation (levitation being functional programming)
20120618 20:37:46< bloodycoin_m> sure
20120618 20:43:17< bloodycoin_m> http://pastebin.com/rdaacAVz
20120618 20:43:41< boucman> ok
20120618 20:44:22< boucman> so for our next step, you might want to have "type=test" :P
20120618 20:44:45< boucman> but that looks like an ok syntax, you might want to have some sort of start_time and end_time, 
20120618 20:44:52< boucman> but the idea as is seems fine
20120618 20:45:00< bloodycoin_m> with the current state... effect_type can be created dynamically from the wml... I only need hardcoded functions
20120618 20:45:19< boucman> ok
20120618 20:46:57< boucman> so on unit_animation creation, you pass the cfg to the effect constructor
20120618 20:47:10< boucman> which should build the effect_type IIUC
20120618 20:47:15< bloodycoin_m> erm... start|end_time can be exchanged with particle lifetime I think... currently I have it in effect_type... but if needed I could put it to effect itself
20120618 20:47:30< boucman> and on unit_animation::start_animation you create the effect itself
20120618 20:47:50< boucman> bloodycoin_m: ok, let's forget about start time for the moment
20120618 20:48:20< boucman> we might want it to have an effect fire at a precise time wrt the unit animation, but maybe that's a case where the unit side overloading could do the job
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20120618 20:49:42< pyknite> Hi!
20120618 20:50:34< boucman> ok, so bloodycoin_m, can you work with that ? passing the wml to the effect on unit_animation creation, checking for [effect] childs, parsing them into effect_type if there are any, 
20120618 20:50:38< bloodycoin_m> ermm.. on unit_animation creation, I pass cfg to effect_user, which could create missing types, if any, then create effects, but not start them. Finally start_animation would start effect
20120618 20:50:42< boucman> and running the effect at anim start tim
20120618 20:51:13< boucman> yes, that's it
20120618 20:52:32< bloodycoin_m> yep, will be done...
20120618 20:52:44< boucman> ok, good... when ? :)
20120618 20:53:48< pyknite> I have a problem in formulaai... I want to find the nearest unowned village of an units. I tried with reduce,choose,filter,... But I can get it... Any advice?
20120618 20:54:16< pyknite> (find the loc, to be able to move)
20120618 20:54:54< bloodycoin_m> [today;day after tomorrow]
20120618 20:55:03< boucman> sounds good
20120618 20:55:16< bloodycoin_m> there is another question though...
20120618 20:55:55< bloodycoin_m> should I add my wml block to existing units for testing to see how they work?
20120618 20:56:09< bloodycoin_m> or create a copy or some unit?
20120618 20:56:16< boucman> yes, since you are in your own branch in git I see no reason not to...
20120618 20:56:23< boucman> we'll clean that up eventually
20120618 20:56:54< bloodycoin_m> true... almighty VCS :)
20120618 20:57:07 * boucman uses clearcase at work
20120618 20:57:14< boucman> which is a major cause of stress
20120618 20:57:41< bloodycoin_m> tech question: when lvl is loaded, are unit data read from save or data dir?
20120618 20:57:53< bloodycoin_m> I mean loaded as in from save
20120618 20:58:12< bloodycoin_m> clearcase? (looking it up)
20120618 20:58:33< boucman> i'm not sure... I guess the unit_type is read from datadir and the unit from the save
20120618 20:58:52< boucman> bloodycoin_m: you don't want to, it's really VCS done wrong
20120618 20:59:05< boucman> (unlike CVS which is VCS done naïve)
20120618 20:59:25< bloodycoin_m> you have to know about evil part of the world to actually appreciate good part of it ;)
20120618 20:59:43< boucman> boy, do I appreciate git :P
20120618 21:00:24< bloodycoin_m> hehe
20120618 21:00:26< boucman> I mean... I had to use git over clearcase because clearcase cannot work without access to its servers (connected at all time) and our integration machines cannot be on the corporate network
20120618 21:01:04< bloodycoin_m> ouch...
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20120618 21:03:58< bloodycoin_m> anyways my question directly would be... if I have saved lvl, and change unit wml description, would I see changes on lvl load?
20120618 21:04:35< bloodycoin_m> /s/lvl load/savegame load
20120618 21:12:55< pyknite> anyone for my problem?
20120618 21:14:02< boucman> pyknite: apparently not, wait for mattsc or Crab_ to be around...
20120618 21:14:18< pyknite> yep :(
20120618 21:14:30< boucman> bloodycoin_m: there are ways to do that, yes... look at unit modification.
20120618 21:14:44< boucman> unit_animation can be added to specific units that way
20120618 21:15:14< mattsc> pyknite, I'm here, but hadn't check the IRC window in a while
20120618 21:16:08< mattsc> pyknite, give me a minute.  I haven't used FAI in quite some time.
20120618 21:17:21< mattsc> pyknite: how about 'is_unowned_village' : http://wiki.wesnoth.org/FormulaAI_Functions#.27is_unowned_village.27_function
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20120618 21:19:31< pyknite> mattsc: yeah but this function return if a village is owned or not
20120618 21:19:45< pyknite> mattsc: I want to find the nearest village from my unit
20120618 21:20:10< pyknite> mattsc: there is: distance_to_nearest_unowned_village, but it return the distance, not the location
20120618 21:21:12< mattsc> ok, I see.  As I said, give me a second, I'm a bit rusty with FAI (have only used Lua AI recently)
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20120618 21:23:08< pyknite> mattsc: ok, thx, cool
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20120618 21:25:58< pyknite> mattsc: hum, I think that nearest_loc should work
20120618 21:27:12< mattsc> that seems the other way around though, doesn't?  returns unit closest to location...
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20120618 21:29:46< pyknite> mattsc: wich other way? if I write nearest_loc(unit.loc,enemy_and_unowned_villages) it seems to work
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20120618 21:30:30< mattsc> pyknite: ok, cool.
20120618 21:30:38< pyknite> mattsc: thx ;)
20120618 21:30:49< mattsc> pyknite: I didn't do anything.  :)
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20120618 22:09:44< mattsc> the_new_lipk: I'm already almost done.  You're right, this is fun...  (not that I doubted that)
20120618 22:10:17< the_new_lipk> looking forward to it
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20120618 22:13:41< mattsc> I won't have time to put together a "clean scenario" until tonight, so look for a post in my Coder's Corner thread tomorrow morning your time.
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20120618 23:09:42< mattsc> the_new_lipk: I lied (I'm bad!).  You can check out the scenario now and make suggestions if you want
20120618 23:10:32< mattsc> The behavior is very simple, as you said earlier.  (Try to place a gryphon in the middle of the bats at some point, it's fun.)
20120618 23:10:57< the_new_lipk> I forgive your lie
20120618 23:11:17< mattsc> :)
20120618 23:12:10< mattsc> The one thing I still want to do, but really don't have time for right now, is to speed things up a little.  There's a short but noticeable delay at the beginning of each move.  I know where it comes from, I think, just need to write the code to streamline that.
20120618 23:13:04< the_new_lipk> errr... which scenario should I look at exactly?
20120618 23:13:13< mattsc> 'Swarm'
20120618 23:13:45< the_new_lipk> meh. you apparently didn't add it on the main screen...
20120618 23:14:05< mattsc> I did.  Do you have v0.9.0?
20120618 23:14:07< the_new_lipk> no, my bad
20120618 23:14:28< the_new_lipk> I always hit 'OK' instead of 'Update all'
20120618 23:17:50< Crendgrim> mattsc: if the bats flee from an enemy, they do not care where they move to, even if the hex they move to is nearer to another enemy than the one they came from. I don't know whether that is intentional..
20120618 23:18:54< mattsc> That is intentional.  I am figuring a panicked animal that just runs straight away from whatever the immediate threat is.
20120618 23:19:03< Crendgrim> good.
20120618 23:19:24< mattsc> That is easily changed, it's just how I set this one up
20120618 23:23:58< the_new_lipk> mattsc, looks pretty cool. One thing that could be nice is to 'restrict' the bats' vision, so that they wouldn't regroup so quickly, but would move around in smaller but growing packs
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20120618 23:24:50< mattsc> the_new_lipk: That's an interesting idea.  One for tomorrow...
20120618 23:24:57< the_new_lipk> I guess it's not that much work since there isn't central control for the whole group
20120618 23:25:42< mattsc> It should be pretty easy, but I've gone way over my "wesnoth allowance" for the day already.  :)
20120618 23:26:00< the_new_lipk> yeah, me too... good night
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20120618 23:26:07< mattsc> good night
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20120618 23:55:08< pyknite> mattsc: sorry to bother you again, but how an I get the location of an ennemy in fai?
20120618 23:56:08< mattsc> pyknite: Isn't there a variable 'enemies'?
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20120618 23:57:32< mattsc> oh, no, that's just the sides that are enemies.
20120618 23:57:52< mattsc> but you can use that in combination with 'units_of_side'
20120618 23:58:08< pyknite> mattsc: there is enemy_units... But I want to get a loc list of all enemies
20120618 23:58:22< mattsc> oh, and therre's 'enemy_units'
20120618 23:59:06< mattsc> I don't understand, the locations are in that variable.
--- Log closed Tue Jun 19 00:00:36 2012