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20120622 07:15:11< Ivanovic> shadowm: i think in our terms of usage we state that it has to be GPL when uploaded
20120622 07:15:13< Ivanovic> everything that is
20120622 07:16:08< shadowm> That does not answer my question.
20120622 07:18:25< shadowm> Then again, I guess you consider the "terms of usage" to be the forum post; in such case, it does, and leads to a new question.
20120622 07:18:31< shadowm> Why can't it be otherwise?
20120622 07:18:46< Ivanovic> no, i mean the popup you get before uploading to the server from ingame
20120622 07:19:07< Ivanovic> there it states explicitly "what you upload has to be gpl"
20120622 07:19:26< shadowm> It says, "all add-ons", and later says "content".
20120622 07:20:01< shadowm> We have been using both terms interchangeably for years, so it isn't clear whether it may refer to specific portions of a given add-on, or not.
20120622 07:21:57< Ivanovic> i think the meaning is a clear "*everything* you upload is licensed by GPL since you upload it and agree during the upload to place it under the GPL"
20120622 07:22:34< Ivanovic> so yeah, if the user uploads something which is not under GPL and can't be relicensed by the user uploading, that is a copyright infridgement by the uploading user
20120622 07:22:37< shadowm> I already said it's clear in the forum post. It isn't in the add-ons server, no matter how much you want to pretend it is.
20120622 07:22:42< shadowm> *add-ons server notice
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20120622 07:23:08< shadowm> 01:18:24 <shadowm> Then again, I guess you consider the "terms of usage" to be the forum post; in such case, it does, and leads to a new question.
20120622 07:23:09< Ivanovic> why is it not clear there, too?
20120622 07:23:12< shadowm> 01:18:31 <shadowm> Why can't it be otherwise?
20120622 07:23:19< vultraz> Crendgrim has a non-gpl soundfile in his addon, but he left a note saying it's license(CC0) and origin
20120622 07:23:34< shadowm> vultraz: CC-0 is effectively PD in the U.S. where the add-ons server is hosted.
20120622 07:23:46< shadowm> And elsewhere, it may just as well be relicensed at will.
20120622 07:25:24< Ivanovic> shadowm: again, *why* is the message when uploading from ingame not clear?
20120622 07:25:35< Ivanovic> i think it always clearly stated that what you upload is gpl
20120622 07:25:42< Ivanovic> and has to be so
20120622 07:25:56< shadowm> I already said we use "add-on" and "content" interchangeably, hence the ambiguity.
20120622 07:26:02< shadowm> Again, why can't it be otherwise?
20120622 07:26:46< Ivanovic> yes, since the add-on consists of "content"
20120622 07:29:43< Ivanovic> do you have the exact wording for the uploading terms at hands?
20120622 07:29:49< Ivanovic> and can you paste it?
20120622 07:30:22< shadowm> The current one is:
20120622 07:30:23< shadowm> network::send_data(construct_message("All add-ons uploaded to this server must be licensed under the terms of the GNU General Public License (GPL). By uploading content to this server, you certify that you have the right to place the content under the conditions of the GPL, and choose to do so."), sock);
20120622 07:30:38< shadowm> (You keep evading my other question...)
20120622 07:33:06< Ivanovic> i think this states clearly enough, what you upload (all of it) is under GPL when uploading it
20120622 07:33:24< Ivanovic> so everything can also come with some additional license, but one license has to be GPL
20120622 07:33:41< Ivanovic> and that is IMO the case simply because those terms of usage say so
20120622 07:34:02< Ivanovic> yeah, terms of usage can be changed but are a hell to change regarding the implications for already uploaded stuff
20120622 07:34:49< shadowm> Okay, good to know that kind of artificial limits are imposed by admin laziness.
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20120622 13:21:31< light_mage> hi, is the line #textdomain wesnoth-Name_of_Campaign   a comment or not? Thank you
20120622 13:24:28< Crab_> light_mage: it is a comment. yet, there is a tool which searches for such comments and uses them.
20120622 13:24:51< light_mage> Crab_: what is that tool
20120622 13:25:33< light_mage> Crab_: also, sir, won't all lines beginning with # in the cfg file, be comments?
20120622 13:26:01< Crab_> in this particular case, the tool which collect strings (to be used by translators) uses those comments to identify into which 'group' the strings from that file should be put
20120622 13:26:53< Crab_> # - those are comments from the point of view of WML preprocessor (except special cases like #ifdef ). but other tools can use them for their purpose. for example, it's possible to instruct wmllint by using some special comments
20120622 13:28:00< Crab_> you can read here - http://wiki.wesnoth.org/WesCamp#The_textdomain_bindings - about the usage of #textdomain comments to help translate campaigns
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20120622 13:32:27< Crab_> hi, Ayne
20120622 13:33:08< Ayne> hello
20120622 13:33:28< Crab_> It's great to see that patch committed. 
20120622 13:34:56< Ayne> Yes. My first commit ever, I hope I haven't broken anything important (or preferably anything) ;)
20120622 13:35:24< Crab_> well, at least no one has noticed until now, that gives us chances that all will be good :)
20120622 13:35:41< Crab_> What do you plan to do now, apart from cleaning up the code?
20120622 13:38:30< Crab_> If there're no good plans, as of now, I have several things to suggest.
20120622 13:42:32< Crab_> I would suggest to focus on refactoring the game_state class
20120622 13:43:02< Ayne> I was going to clean up and do the rest of the refactoring you suggested and figure out what the next step after that is in the meantime
20120622 13:43:16< Crab_> cleanup+refactoring is a good thing
20120622 13:43:56< Crab_> yet, I think that proper next step would be to make sure that game_state has in-game state separate from out-of-game state
20120622 13:44:37< Crab_> so far, you've added carryover_info which would, in the future, contain all out-of-game state
20120622 13:45:02< Crab_> yet, so far out-of-game code has full access to game_state, which contains a lot of in-game state
20120622 13:45:06< Crab_> this leads to subtle bugs
20120622 13:45:33< Crab_> for example, code that is out-of-game can freely mess with variables in game_state
20120622 13:45:52< Crab_> yet, technically, 'variables' in-game and variables 'in the bank' are two different sets of variables
20120622 13:46:18< Crab_> and, if we want to allow restart of scenarios in different difficulty level, we need to store both sets at the same time
20120622 13:46:51< Crab_> the easiest way to deal with that problem is to modify the code in a way that would make those logic errors to be compile errors
20120622 13:48:31< Crab_> for example, remove all in-game info from game_state, pushing it into a separate class (you can name it game_info , to sound like 'carryover_info'), and make this class accessible from play_controller or via resources::
20120622 13:48:37< Crab_> and only fix the places where it's used in-game
20120622 13:48:53< Crab_> the remaining compile errors would show you, exactly, where the mess is.
20120622 13:49:11< Crab_> (make sure to do this when you'll have no other uncommitted changes, so cleanup/refactor first, and commit that)
20120622 13:49:28< Crab_> this also means that clas game_state would no longer inherit from variable_set
20120622 13:49:44< Crab_> this would break a lot of code initally, but the fix would be trivial in 99% of cases.
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20120622 13:54:42< Crab_> then, game_state might look like this - http://pastebin.com/Pirxsh2a
20120622 13:55:13< Crab_> later, we might even drop game_info from here completely.
20120622 13:55:23< Crab_> and move it to play_controller
20120622 13:55:42< Crab_> the main benefit would be that a lot of code would break
20120622 13:55:48< Crab_> break because it was not valid before
20120622 13:56:03< Crab_> (but worked before 'just because')
20120622 13:56:22< Crab_> for example, any out-of-game variable access would break because there'll be no variables in game_state
20120622 13:56:32< Crab_> this would force you to add them to carryover_info
20120622 13:57:00< Crab_> and, at the end of game, copy game variables to carryover_info
20120622 13:57:07< Ayne> ok.. Once I've finished the current refactoring, could we go through gamestate and make sure I know exactly what would have to be moved to game info? 
20120622 13:57:17< Crab_> yes, of course
20120622 13:57:53< Crab_> in general, 'everything which is writable from within the game, except, maybe, snapshot and replay configs'
20120622 13:58:13< Crab_> wml variables - yet, menu items -yes, last clicked hex - yes, and so on
20120622 13:58:36< Crab_> note that since menu items and wml variables are persistent between scenarios, you'll need to add them to carryover info, as well.
20120622 13:59:04< Crab_> in some cases that would mean creating a new helper class to deal with them (to reuse that class as member in game_info and carryover_info)
20120622 14:00:03< Crab_> by the way, in the end, game_state would contain exactly all the info which goes into the save game sections - replay, game_info (which can be turned into a snapshot), carryover_info, starting position
20120622 14:00:33< Crab_> thus save/load would work on game_state in some quite simple ways (except for some backward compatability code blocks)
20120622 14:01:47< Crab_> Does this seem reasonable?
20120622 14:02:59< Ayne> It sounds like a lot of work, but that's what I'm here for after all ;) I can definitely see the benefits
20120622 14:03:16< Crab_> If you'll have questions then, ask, when you'll be ready, we'll go over the code in game_state and figure out where to put everything
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20120622 14:03:49< Crab_> I'll be afk for the weekend (until Tuesday), but would  have some email access
20120622 14:04:57< Ayne> Ok, I will keep working on the carryover code for now and hopefully when you are back we can discuss the changes to game_state in more detail and deal with any questions that might come up
20120622 14:05:05< Crab_> great
20120622 14:07:01< Crab_> Ayne: as I see from your original schedule, you'll be on holidays at the start of July, right?
20120622 14:07:55< Ayne> Yes, one week. I don't know yet if I will take my laptop with me, but if I do I will probably not have a lot of time to work
20120622 14:08:11< Crab_> no, it's ok to have this holiday and don't work
20120622 14:08:48< Crab_> I would expect you to finish the cleanup before that, but it's ok if this refactoring that we're talking about now would be finished later, after the holidays and midterm evaluation
20120622 14:09:05< Crab_> just note that you'd have to complete your part of midterm evaluation in time.
20120622 14:09:48< Crab_> (the evaluation is open from July 9 19:00 UTC to July 13 19:00 UTC)
20120622 14:10:25< Ayne> Unless I run into any major issues I definitely plan to finish cleaning up carryover_info before I leave
20120622 14:10:46< Ayne> Hopefully earlier
20120622 14:10:54< Crab_> Ok, sounds good. Notify me if you'll spot any issues in there.
20120622 14:11:05< Ayne> I'll put a note in my calendar, but I will be back by then, so that should not be a problem
20120622 14:11:40< Crab_> by the way, how's the project going for you overall? are there any things that you'd prefer to be done in a better way?
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20120622 14:13:35< Ayne> No, I'm quite happy with it so far. It's a bit scary how much they haven't taught us at uni, but I think I'm learning a lot from what you've been telling me about the issues with my code
20120622 14:14:15< Crab_> Ok, that's good. Good luck, then :)
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20120622 14:17:01< Ayne> Thank you :)
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20120622 15:41:50< bloodycoin_m> boucman: I am having a bit of trouble trying to kill PE on game exit... >.<
20120622 15:42:04< boucman> ok
20120622 15:42:18< boucman> naive question, why do you want to ?
20120622 15:43:06< bloodycoin_m> reporting situation + maybe you have a suggestion?
20120622 15:44:27< boucman> bloodycoin_m: ok, your singleton is still not how I would expect it to be...
20120622 15:44:52< bloodycoin_m> what do you mean?
20120622 15:45:18< boucman> gimme a sec
20120622 15:45:54< boucman> ok, your way of doing it works, it's not the common pattern, but it works
20120622 15:46:02< boucman> so don't worry about it for the moment
20120622 15:47:07< boucman> http://www.codeproject.com/Articles/1921/Singleton-Pattern-its-implementation-with-C
20120622 15:47:37< boucman> not very different, but i am so used to seeing the standard pattern that your coded looked weird to me at first sight
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20120622 15:47:50< bloodycoin_m> ;P
20120622 15:49:59< boucman> ok, so if PE exists for the duration of the program (which seems to be the case) 
20120622 15:50:05< boucman> then just don't call the dtor
20120622 15:50:58< bloodycoin_m> but don't you have to call delete on dynamically allocated objects?
20120622 15:51:16< boucman> the OS cleans it for you at program exit
20120622 15:51:48< bloodycoin_m> oh... didn't know this one..
20120622 15:52:07< boucman> that's not a good advice, you usually want to clean up at program exit, but it's not crucial and I want to move on to more concrete stuff
20120622 15:52:37< boucman> want do you think the next step should be ?
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20120622 15:53:02< Crab_> well, the OS is not calling the destructors for you, but the memory is reclaimed and files are closed. so, if your destructors have no side effects (like creating files, etc), you can just ignore the 'leak'.
20120622 15:53:06< bloodycoin_m> just to get clear... which part of my singleton confuses you? that I check if it exist in ctor?
20120622 15:53:36< boucman> that you return the new object and that the new object ctor sets the singleton_
20120622 15:53:41< boucman> that's not the common pattern
20120622 15:54:20< boucman> moreover it's a good habit to make the ctor private (like in the example I sent to you) so accidental copies won't happen (right now you still have a public copy ctor iirc)
20120622 15:54:35< boucman> that way they will  be caught at compile time
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20120622 15:55:13< bloodycoin_m> hmm... singleton_ = this is done in display.cpp too... soo... :)
20120622 15:55:30< boucman> I'm not mentoring that code :P
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20120622 15:55:58< boucman> but yes, as I said your code is not wrong, it's just not the way I am used to see that pattern, so I can't "fast track" it, I have to analyze it
20120622 15:56:13< bloodycoin_m> I also did check in ctor, because ctor was directly called in play_controller.... but I think it's not needed anymore
20120622 15:56:16< boucman> though I think having  a private ctor would be really safer, you should do that
20120622 15:56:32< bloodycoin_m> yes, will do
20120622 15:56:40< bloodycoin_m> (almost done)
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20120622 16:00:24< bloodycoin_m> boucman: as for next step.. I am not sure... should I work more on wml parameters, or move on to different kind of user..
20120622 16:00:38< boucman> i'd go for WML
20120622 16:01:14< boucman> try to implement a couple "real effects" like sparks or whirlwinds so we can showstuff to the artists and readact some wiki pages to get them drolling
20120622 16:01:33< boucman> adding to terrain and WML will be cool later, but they will have something real to play with
20120622 16:03:44< bloodycoin_m> ok, but then we need to think how much customization we want to give through wml..
20120622 16:04:20< boucman> we are still talking of hardcoded but parameterized effects, not lua effects...
20120622 16:04:41< boucman> so the parameters will depend on the effect itself, at least for most of them
20120622 16:05:15< bloodycoin_m> err... what I mean.. how much and what parameter we want to expose
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20120622 16:06:57< bloodycoin_m> because, now I am taking all info from effect_type, but I can move those parameters to the effects, to allow more variation.
20120622 16:07:38< bloodycoin_m> yet, again, if I allow to much variation, effects might not look good
20120622 16:07:56< boucman> well, move all the parameters that make sense to WML, but now that I think of it, we don't have a mechanic in effect_type to add effect dependant parameters, do we ?
20120622 16:08:19< boucman> "look good" is not your responsability, it's the artist's/wml author
20120622 16:08:55< boucman> you need only make sure that the sensible range is within the legal range, you don't need to make sure they are equal nor that relationship between parameters make sense
20120622 16:09:05< bloodycoin_m> "look good" is partly mine, because I still hardcode movement functions ^^'
20120622 16:09:39< bloodycoin_m> what do you mean by "effect dependant parameters"?
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20120622 16:11:34< boucman> suppose that you have an effect that make particle circle the unit as in ellipses as if there was a gravitic pull
20120622 16:12:08< boucman> the you probably want some parameters like "big axis range" "small axis range"
20120622 16:12:22< boucman> however they only make sense for that particular type of effect
20120622 16:12:43< boucman> so you don't want to add it to other types of effect
20120622 16:14:34< bloodycoin_m> hmm... ok, true, makes sense... and I thnk I know how to do it
20120622 16:14:40< boucman> inheritence :)
20120622 16:14:51< bloodycoin_m> nop
20120622 16:14:56< boucman> oh ?
20120622 16:15:28< boucman> my first idea would have new effects inherit from an abstract effect_type adding whatever is needed to parse the new WML arguments 
20120622 16:15:35< bloodycoin_m> parameter map in effects, and parameter extraction in movement function
20120622 16:15:48< boucman> though I would need a way to limit pairing with effectçconfigurator to correct ones
20120622 16:15:55< boucman> mkay
20120622 16:16:39< bloodycoin_m> since I know what kind of parameters I am expecting in movement function
20120622 16:17:06< boucman> ok, go for it if you feel confident it will work, i'll look at it once it's done
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20120622 19:01:41< anonymissimus> Ayne: okay, here's a first "bug report": in the test scenario, when ending the scenario via the menu, there now comes the transient dialog saying that I won the scenario...I'm not sure but I think this wasn't the case previously
20120622 19:01:57< anonymissimus> not a very important problem though
20120622 19:03:38< Ayne> anonymissimus: I'll look into it, thanks for letting me know
20120622 19:06:34< anonymissimus> it also looks as if I can no longer load any of my savegames
20120622 19:07:19< anonymissimus> while we officially do not provide such compatibility over versions there in practice is
20120622 19:07:37< Ayne> Yes, both my fault, sorry. For some reason I was able to load old savegames when I tried it, then committed, and it hasn't worked since, I don't know why it worked the first time
20120622 19:07:49< anonymissimus> especially for start-of-scenario saves
20120622 19:08:53< Ayne> I already fixed that and I found the reason for the report showing up, I'll commit a fix today
20120622 19:09:12< anonymissimus> (I would expect that even saves from 1.6 load so-so in trunk, with some values reset to default and such probably)
20120622 19:17:45< anonymissimus> Ayne: perhaps it's because the error only appears with start-of-scenario saves as opposed to turn saves
20120622 19:19:27< Ayne> That could be it. I don't remember what I first tested it with
20120622 19:19:55< anonymissimus> it tries to read a carryover_bank config child in gamestatus:513 which is normally there probably
20120622 19:20:59< anonymissimus> hm, another old save which is a turn save also doesn't work
20120622 19:21:12< Ayne> It's there with new saves, but not with old ones, since it's what I've added. I just need to check a few things to make sure that what I've been doing since the commit works and then I will commit the fix
20120622 19:21:19< anonymissimus> okay, guess I let you work on it now :P
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20120622 20:34:20< CIA-87> ayne * r54460 /trunk/src/ (5 files): 
20120622 20:34:21< CIA-87> Fixed issue with old savegames and victory reports
20120622 20:34:21< CIA-87> Refactoring still WIP
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--- Log closed Sat Jun 23 00:00:00 2012