--- Log opened Sat Jun 30 00:00:07 2012
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20120630 05:20:04< janebot> Twitter: @Wesnoth: Yes! More memes please! http://t.co/YLZmtgl4 [ Jun-30-2012 03:16 ] [ http://tinyurl.com/6mo33em ]
20120630 05:21:17< shadowm> Gambit: That's not @Wesnoth-worthy.
20120630 05:21:28< Gambit> Your face... is not... @Wesnoth worthy
20120630 05:21:40< shadowm> My face is the owner of the @Wesnoth account.
20120630 05:21:50< shadowm> Be careful about complaining about it.
20120630 05:22:24< Gambit> I will turn your facepalm photo into a meme
20120630 05:22:37< Gambit> Don't tempt me Frodo!
20120630 05:22:39< shadowm> Don't care.
20120630 05:23:16< Gambit> DOESN'T READ POSTING GUIDELINES
20120630 05:23:16< Gambit> WONDERS WHY HE IS BANNED
20120630 05:23:50< shadowm> The stuff the people are doing in that topic encourages braindead posting.
20120630 05:23:55< shadowm> *people
20120630 05:24:01< Gambit> really?
20120630 05:24:09< Gambit> Because I've been sitting here for 15 minutes trying to think up a decent one
20120630 05:24:12< Gambit> :((
20120630 05:24:39< shadowm> You do realize you are the epitome of meme-induced stupidity?
20120630 05:26:43< Gambit> I'm totally making this picture now.
20120630 05:31:04< Gambit> as soon as I figure out how to outline text in GIMP...
20120630 05:36:57< Gambit> shadowm: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/20566997/images/memes/shadowmemester.jpg
20120630 05:37:16< Gambit> I wonder post it on the forums.
20120630 05:37:19< Gambit> *won't
20120630 05:37:43< Gambit> except I guess the meme text is supposed to be about the person in the picture
20120630 05:37:44< Gambit> hrmph
20120630 05:37:49< Gambit> I suck at this, you know?
20120630 05:37:58< shadowm> Still don't care.
20120630 05:37:59< Gambit> err wait no
20120630 05:38:04< Gambit> Sometimes it's the person in the picture talking
20120630 05:38:09< Gambit> So it works.
20120630 05:38:13< Gambit> shadowm: Pffffft
20120630 05:38:54< Gambit> Maybe I will post it on the forums...
20120630 05:38:59< Gambit> Not without your permission though.
20120630 05:39:19< Gambit> I wouldn't want my picture where hooligans would do things
20120630 05:39:33< Gambit> Although there was that one time I made the wikipedia donation parody with this same photo...
20120630 05:39:35< Gambit> derp derp
20120630 05:39:44< Gambit> shadowm: Stop being so grumpy
20120630 05:40:04< shadowm> I'm not being grumpy.
20120630 05:40:24< Gambit> USES MY PHOTO TO MAKE STUPID MEMES
20120630 05:40:24< Gambit> STILL JOKES ABOUT ME BEING BALD
20120630 05:46:26< Gambit> INTENTIONALLY ANNOYS ME ON DAILY BASIS
20120630 05:46:26< Gambit> WANTS TO BE FORUM MODERATOR
20120630 05:46:27< Gambit> :P
20120630 05:46:38< Gambit> okay good night
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20120630 09:17:15< Ivanovic> moin
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20120630 10:56:37< Drakefriend> Can someone please tell me how to update the strings-to-be-translated? I do not understand the wiki sites thereon..
20120630 10:57:33< Drakefriend> The concrete prolem: I removed one of the Therains race in EoM, and want to change the translations to reflect this change.
20120630 11:04:02< Espreon> Drakefriend: It's a WesCamp thing.
20120630 11:04:19< Espreon> Drakefriend: I'll give you updated po files if you want.
20120630 11:04:31< Drakefriend> Thanks.
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20120630 16:19:24< gecko_> hello
20120630 16:19:29< Espreon> Hello.
20120630 16:19:37< lipk> hi gecko_
20120630 16:19:49-!- lipk is now known as the_new_lipk
20120630 16:20:53< gecko_> i have a question. im using wesnoth 1.10.2 and i got about 5-6 addons. when i start multiplayer, i have to wait about a minute till i enter the server
20120630 16:20:59< gecko_> same with offline multiplayer
20120630 16:21:31< the_new_lipk> what add-ons do you have installed?
20120630 16:21:39< gecko_> and if i look at the taskmanager it says about 25% cpu used constantly and the ram is filling up very slowly then a bit less again..
20120630 16:21:48< gecko_> wait i gotta look at the complete list
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20120630 16:22:12< the_new_lipk> some addons, e.g. Ageless Era can kinda slow things down
20120630 16:22:29< gecko_> ageless era, creep war, dov mp maps, sxcollection, survivalxaddonpacks, survival fusion 2
20120630 16:22:35< gecko_> i first noticed it with ageless era
20120630 16:22:46< the_new_lipk> yeah, as expected :/
20120630 16:22:52< gecko_> but then it got even slower with other addons
20120630 16:22:57< gecko_> and i just wonder why..
20120630 16:22:59< the_new_lipk> I blame ageless
20120630 16:23:38< gecko_> i mean i dont see a reason for that: cpu isnt rly doing something, ram is moving a bit (100-300mb up and down, but very slowly)
20120630 16:23:41< Espreon> Always blame ageless.
20120630 16:23:45< gecko_> where is the technical reason?
20120630 16:24:05< the_new_lipk> it's reading data from the hard drive
20120630 16:24:13< the_new_lipk> and that is a slow thing
20120630 16:24:14< gecko_> its not even reading anything from the drive
20120630 16:24:18< gecko_> i got an ssd
20120630 16:24:29< gecko_> and its not even reading when im waiting.. the led isnt blinking
20120630 16:24:37< gecko_> its just like doing nothing, like a joke
20120630 16:24:45< the_new_lipk> that is strange
20120630 16:25:17< the_new_lipk> could you look up your userdata directory, please?
20120630 16:25:23< gecko_> ok
20120630 16:25:43< gecko_> what to do there?
20120630 16:25:53< the_new_lipk> enter add-ons/Ageless_Era
20120630 16:26:05< gecko_> ok, im in
20120630 16:26:28< the_new_lipk> rename _main.cfg to _main.cfg.disabled or whatever you wish
20120630 16:27:11< gecko_> done so, shall i try again?
20120630 16:27:27< the_new_lipk> yes, and make sure to close wesnoth before
20120630 16:27:32< the_new_lipk> *restart
20120630 16:27:32< gecko_> i did
20120630 16:27:38< the_new_lipk> ok then
20120630 16:28:19< the_new_lipk> does it load faster now?
20120630 16:28:40< gecko_> hmmmm
20120630 16:28:45< gecko_> doesnt seem so
20120630 16:29:17< the_new_lipk> what OS are you using?
20120630 16:29:27< gecko_> windows 7 home premium (32bit)
20120630 16:31:19< gecko_> without addons it worked perfectly, then it got slow with ageless, but with new addons it got even slower i think
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20120630 16:32:23< the_new_lipk> well, you could try two more things: 1) update to 1.10.3 and see if the problem persists 2) disable all add-ons with the above method and see if it works then
20120630 16:32:54< gecko_> hmm
20120630 16:32:55< the_new_lipk> wait swap 1) and 2)
20120630 16:33:03< the_new_lipk> do 2 first
20120630 16:33:23< gecko_> there is no way to directly update to 1.10.3, is there? (i mean instead of loading the complete game again)
20120630 16:33:50< the_new_lipk> I believe not
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20120630 16:34:19< the_new_lipk> loonycyborg: ^
20120630 16:34:51< gecko_> ok disabling all addons worked
20120630 16:35:16< the_new_lipk> mmkay, then try to enable them one by one to find the murderer
20120630 16:35:19< gecko_> so its definitely an addon issue
20120630 16:38:03< gecko_> ok
20120630 16:38:31< gecko_> with just creep war, dov mp and fusion survival 2 its slower than normal, but its just 3 seconds or sth
20120630 16:38:44< gecko_> so the sxaddonpack and the ageless are the troublemakers
20120630 16:39:10< the_new_lipk> that is more than possible
20120630 16:39:15< gecko_> btw i uninstalled the survivalxaddonpack completely, since it only contains 3 unused maps anyway
20120630 16:39:42< gecko_> well, i dont need the survival maps, not rly playing sx anymore anyway, but i rly like ageless
20120630 16:40:07< gecko_> without ageless i dont rly have a reason to play the game x) the default units are just too boring after a long time
20120630 16:41:03< the_new_lipk> well, even if ageless is slow to load it shouldn't take a whole minute
20120630 16:41:15< the_new_lipk> especially on an ssd
20120630 16:41:36< gecko_> as i said, the ssd is just idling around
20120630 16:42:01< gecko_> cpu constantly 25% and ram moving up and down slowly (100-300mb)
20120630 16:42:20< gecko_> so the hardware is bored
20120630 16:42:25< gecko_> and thats what i dont understand
20120630 16:42:32< the_new_lipk> yeah, but the usual bottleneck for loading speed is the harddrive afaik
20120630 16:43:23< zookeeper> not really
20120630 16:43:50< the_new_lipk> then, what?
20120630 16:44:03< loonycyborg> WML macros :P
20120630 16:44:25< zookeeper> it's just cpu load, sorting through all the WML
20120630 16:44:43< zookeeper> ...and a lot of those add-ons have tons of macro-heavy bloated WML
20120630 16:44:53< gecko_> oh yeah ageless does
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20120630 16:45:05< gecko_> animations etc right?
20120630 16:45:09< zookeeper> no
20120630 16:45:35< the_new_lipk> heh, gecko, do you have a 4-core cpu?
20120630 16:45:40< gecko_> yes
20120630 16:45:49< gecko_> a8-3870 (4x3ghz)
20120630 16:45:53< zookeeper> that explains the 25% load
20120630 16:46:06< gecko_> ah its not multithreaded?
20120630 16:46:09< the_new_lipk> no
20120630 16:46:14< zookeeper> yeah, it's not
20120630 16:46:15< gecko_> :(
20120630 16:47:01< gecko_> what is an wml macro actually?
20120630 16:48:00< the_new_lipk> it's a wrapped up piece of code which you can invoke in a different place by just providing its name
20120630 16:48:00< Gambit> it gets replaced with code
20120630 16:48:05< zookeeper> wesnoth is built in a pretty performance-ineffective way, and a lot of add-ons are too... so, even with a fast computer the loading times can be pretty long. in any case, the subsequent loading times after you've installed/removed an add-on and gone through the multiplayer loading screen once ought to be shorter. if nothing has changed since the last time, it uses cached files which is faster.
20120630 16:49:06< gecko_> hm ived noticed wesnoth is pretty ineffective alrdy
20120630 16:49:12< gecko_> ai is using pretty much cpu
20120630 16:49:17< zookeeper> it is
20120630 16:49:47< gecko_> and btw why does wesnoth make the cache new everytime u play?
20120630 16:50:32< zookeeper> it doesn't, it re-rebuilds it only when you've added/removed add-ons
20120630 16:51:48< gecko_> ok, i just thought cuz it says "reading data and making cache" everytime it loads
20120630 16:52:25< zookeeper> yeah, it probably shouldn't say that every time...
20120630 16:52:48< the_new_lipk> everytime you start up the game, you mean?
20120630 16:53:09< gecko_> yeah and everytime i start multiplayer or an campaign
20120630 16:53:23< the_new_lipk> for mp, it just once in a session
20120630 16:53:31< the_new_lipk> *it does so
20120630 16:54:07< the_new_lipk> start local mp, click cancel, then start local mp again. woo-hoo, no load screen
20120630 16:55:05< gecko_> i know, ive noticed that, but it just sucks..
20120630 16:55:18< gecko_> i usually dont leave the server, when playing online :)
20120630 16:55:36< gecko_> but if u wanna play and gotta wait so long, it rly frustrating
20120630 16:55:43< the_new_lipk> you must rebuild the cache once in a session, since wesnoth can't detect if the files are the same as last time
20120630 16:56:32< gecko_> :(
20120630 16:57:06< gecko_> i think it should check before if the files are still all the same. if so, it wouldnt have to rebuild the cache
20120630 16:57:17< Gambit> Well it could, but that would take even longer I'd imagine.
20120630 16:57:53< the_new_lipk> I believe I saw some plans to switch to on-demand data loading, though
20120630 16:58:08< the_new_lipk> ...somewhen, somwhere...
20120630 16:58:18< gecko_> hm
20120630 16:58:29< gecko_> but why should it take longer? its just a list of file names
20120630 16:58:49< the_new_lipk> file names are a thing, file content is a different thing
20120630 16:59:30< Gambit> checksumming all those files...
20120630 16:59:49< Gambit> Wesnoth data isn't cabinetized (totally a real word) at all
20120630 17:00:05< gecko_> hmmm
20120630 17:00:17< gecko_> is wesnoth singlethreaded completely?
20120630 17:00:38< the_new_lipk> almost
20120630 17:00:58< Gambit> Except for some networking stuff
20120630 17:01:08< the_new_lipk> and music stuff
20120630 17:01:30< gecko_> hm
20120630 17:01:38< gecko_> so just for the stuff that doesnt pull any power anyway
20120630 17:02:35< gecko_> i guess theres no hope on the game getting more efficient in the future?
20120630 17:05:12< zookeeper> there's always hope, but i wouldn't hold my breath
20120630 17:05:31< the_new_lipk> since the inefficient loading is already recognized as an issue,  it's likely to get addressed sooner or later
20120630 17:06:35< gecko_> ok :)
20120630 17:06:41< the_new_lipk> (with an emphasis on  later)
20120630 17:06:49< zookeeper> well the thing about loading times is that it's just the way the game has been built. things can always be optimized more, but the basic architecture of it is simply slow and it's unlikely that anyone's going to rewrite it to work in a completely different manner.
20120630 17:07:18< the_new_lipk> that is where lazy initialization comes in
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20120630 17:07:42< the_new_lipk> it wouldn't require a *total* rewrite
20120630 17:07:53< gecko_> if it isnt too complex (im not an programmer) why is the game basically inefficient? i mean is it the engine or what?
20120630 17:08:39< the_new_lipk> I guess nobody foresaw the advent of Ageless Era at that time :/
20120630 17:09:03< zookeeper> gecko_, i'd guess that mostly because when dave was writing it 10 years ago he didn't think it'd ever need to handle the tons of content it needs to when you got ageless era, creep war, dov mp maps, sxcollection, survivalxaddonpacks, survival fusion 2 :p
20120630 17:09:44< gecko_> no i dont mean the loading times. i mean i know it isnt only wesnoth´s fault, ageless is just not built good. but i mean in general.
20120630 17:10:09< gecko_> btw i only got creep war and ageless era left now xD everything unimportant got thrown out.
20120630 17:12:06< the_new_lipk> what do you mean by "basically inefficient"?
20120630 17:12:40< zookeeper> gecko_, there's only two notable inefficient aspects: loading and graphics. the in-game graphics are drawn _without_ using any hardware acceleration, which really hurts performance when you got a lot of units with standing animations, animated terrain, etc.
20120630 17:13:16< gecko_> but also the ai.. it needs a lot cpu power
20120630 17:13:30< gecko_> and for the graphics: does it even use the gpu?
20120630 17:13:37< the_new_lipk> no
20120630 17:13:38< Gambit> No. That's what he just said.
20120630 17:14:38< zookeeper> it seems all the graphics programmers prefer to work on flashier action games :p
20120630 17:15:32< gecko_> ok, didnt know without hardware acceleration = without gpu :)
20120630 17:15:52< the_new_lipk> ...and no one volunteers to rewrite the wesnoth graphics engine, how strange :P
20120630 17:16:29< Gambit> actually plenty of people volunteer
20120630 17:16:34< Gambit> And then we never hear from them again.
20120630 17:17:04< Gambit> Some psychopath is out there killing off people skilled in OpenGL that want to work on FOSS strategy games :OOO
20120630 17:17:07< zookeeper> gecko_, well, when it comes to graphics, gpu = hardware acceleration
20120630 17:17:28< gecko_> foss = turn based?
20120630 17:17:46< Gambit> free and open source software
20120630 17:17:50< gecko_> ah :)
20120630 17:18:48< gecko_> well, there are some os games with pretty good graphics, but well since sourceforge is dying slowly i have the feeling, the opensource games are getting less, too
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20120630 17:19:19< gecko_> btw i once saw a plan for wesnoth 3d, but the game got cancelled. wouldve loved to play that one :(
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20120630 17:19:51< the_new_lipk> hi janebot
20120630 17:20:00< Gambit> We couldn't decide on red-cyan or magenta-green glasses
20120630 17:20:32< janebot> Hey there lipk
20120630 17:21:14< gecko_> Gambit: i dont get that one
20120630 17:21:19< the_new_lipk> Gambit: was that you? If not, why does it take her so much time to respond?
20120630 17:21:26< Gambit> the_new_lipk: It was :<
20120630 17:21:37< Gambit> gecko_: It was a joke about 3D glasses
20120630 17:21:47< gecko_> ah
20120630 17:21:59< Gambit> Also about Wesnoth bureaucracy.
20120630 17:22:03< gecko_> no i dont mean real 3d, but with mountains etc
20120630 17:22:21< gecko_> yeah i had a few looks into the forum when ideas were discussed. rly awful..
20120630 17:22:53< zookeeper> more likely it was not as much a "plan" as someone making a suggestion they thought was cool but didn't have any idea how unfeasible it would be
20120630 17:23:32< gecko_> no they alrdy had screenshots
20120630 17:23:43< gecko_> i think it was called silvertree rpg or something
20120630 17:24:03< gecko_> http://forums.wesnoth.org/download/file.php?id=16402
20120630 17:24:46< the_new_lipk> oh, no, that was a different game by Dave
20120630 17:25:13 * Gambit goes into Dave fanboy mode
20120630 17:27:23< gecko_> well im rly disappointed the project didnt work out
20120630 17:27:47< Gambit> In hindsight, I'm glad it did.
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20120630 17:27:57< Gambit> The engine he moved onto afterwards is kick ass.
20120630 17:28:59< Gambit> janebot: !youtube ri614C_Buwg
20120630 17:29:00< janebot> "New Features in the Frogatto Editor" Length: 9:12 (by Frogatto)
20120630 17:29:00< janebot> 6524 views, 116 likes, 3 dislikes (no region restrictions) http://youtu.be/ri614C_Buwg
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20120630 17:29:34< gecko_> wow
20120630 17:29:37< gecko_> cool game
20120630 17:29:47< gecko_> im always searching for free jumpnruns, but most are just crap :)
20120630 17:29:55< gecko_> that one looks pretty cool, gonna try it out
20120630 17:30:40< Gambit> Also has Wesnoth's art director doing most of the art
20120630 17:31:48< gecko_> wow
20120630 17:31:50< gecko_> 150mb?
20120630 17:31:53< gecko_> why is it so huge?
20120630 17:32:09< Gambit> A ton of art and music.
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20120630 17:32:22< Gambit> It's a beautiful game
20120630 17:32:42< Gambit> Not actually that fun IMO... though I don't like "jumpnruns" in general.
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20120630 17:35:26< Gambit> Dat editor...
20120630 17:37:57< gecko_> dan
20120630 17:38:06< gecko_> this little frog reminds me of the haribo frogs
20120630 17:38:08< gecko_> u know them?
20120630 17:38:28< Gambit> No
20120630 17:38:31< Gambit> They're candy?
20120630 17:39:18< gecko_> yes
20120630 17:39:36< gecko_> gummi bears
20120630 17:40:11< gecko_> http://picture.yatego.com/images/4a673716a82715.3/2876-kqh/haribo-quaxi--froesche--fruchtgummi--18-beutel--200g.jpg
20120630 17:40:40< gecko_> do u think frogatto is a difficult game?
20120630 17:40:47< gecko_> i mean would u say so?
20120630 17:40:56< the_new_lipk> no
20120630 17:41:03< the_new_lipk> let alone the last level
20120630 17:41:09< Gambit> I'm not a good judge of the genre.
20120630 17:41:12< the_new_lipk> that *is* difficult
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20120630 17:41:39< Gambit> If you get the latest version from GIT they've implemented difficulty levels
20120630 17:41:52< gecko_> ok
20120630 17:41:52< gecko_> and
20120630 17:41:57< gecko_> can u play it with a gamepad?
20120630 17:42:08< Gambit> I think so
20120630 17:42:27< Gambit> You could probably try asking things in their channel here on freenode
20120630 17:42:51< gecko_> ill just try it :)
20120630 17:42:58< gecko_> gonna test it now, download is rdy ^^
20120630 17:43:58< gecko_> hm u cant play it fullscreen :(
20120630 18:00:16< gecko_> awesome game!
20120630 18:06:14< gecko_> well i wish u a good evening, im off now ^^
20120630 18:06:21< gecko_> thanks for the explanations
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--- Log closed Sun Jul 01 00:00:15 2012