--- Log opened Tue Jul 10 00:00:20 2012
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20120710 01:28:08< ancestral> Is the recruit list the same per faction, or does it vary depending on the leader?
20120710 01:29:53< ancestral> It appears it is the same across leaders in a faction
20120710 01:30:12< ancestral> data/multiplayer/factions/
20120710 01:30:33< ancestral> Answered my own question. Rock on.
20120710 01:49:51-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 180 bugs, 338 feature requests, 17 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20120710 02:14:31< CIA-87> alarantalara * r54677 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/scenarios/11_Battle_for_Zocthanol_Isle.cfg: Side 9 is never used so kill it
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20120710 02:20:47< CIA-87> alarantalara * r54678 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/scenarios/11_Battle_for_Zocthanol_Isle.cfg: Side 5 is only used for cutscenes, so give it a null controller to avoid wasting time between turns
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20120710 02:50:10< CIA-87> alarantalara * r54679 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/scenarios/11_Battle_for_Zocthanol_Isle.cfg: Use {SCATTER_UNITS} instead of custom {CREATE_BATS}
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20120710 02:53:47< CIA-87> alarantalara * r54680 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/scenarios/11_Battle_for_Zocthanol_Isle.cfg: Erase now irrelevant comment
20120710 03:05:10< CIA-87> alarantalara * r54681 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/scenarios/11_Battle_for_Zocthanol_Isle.cfg: Remove captured_keep variable
20120710 03:14:38< CIA-87> alarantalara * r54682 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/scenarios/11_Battle_for_Zocthanol_Isle.cfg: Merge four duplicate dialog blocks
20120710 03:28:05< CIA-87> alarantalara * r54683 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/scenarios/11_Battle_for_Zocthanol_Isle.cfg: More filter_conditions to replace ifs
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20120710 09:43:35< loonycyborg> wtf? spam on wesnoth-dev ml? With broken grammar no less? :P
20120710 09:44:34< shadowm> The From field has "Scott Klempner", who, IIRC, is the Wesnoth scott.
20120710 09:45:41< shadowm> Yes, I know From fields can be spoofed but I have no idea whether the gna.org mailing list software does.
20120710 09:49:15< zookeeper> on a related note, the commit list mails are always marked as if coming from the person who did the commit. what is that if not spoofing of the from field?
20120710 09:54:20< loonycyborg> You can write whatever you wish into from: field as long as the sender address is correct.
20120710 09:54:36< loonycyborg> Spoofing the address is somewhat harder :P
20120710 09:56:01< zookeeper> in that case gmail doesn't show me the sender address anywhere
20120710 09:56:24< loonycyborg> Scott Klempner <n1401e@hotmail.com>
20120710 09:56:50< loonycyborg> And nobody uses hotmail except spam relays..
20120710 09:57:01< zookeeper> that's the from field
20120710 09:57:43< shadowm> loonycyborg: And Sapient.
20120710 09:58:03< shadowm> Or did last time he posted according to my email client, back in 2010.
20120710 09:58:44< shadowm> TSI apparently did as well.
20120710 09:59:02< loonycyborg> Oh.
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20120710 10:05:12< loonycyborg> zookeeper: Well.. I was saying that there is at least some effort to ensure that <..> part of from: field is authentic.
20120710 10:06:29< zookeeper> and if you look at any commit list mail, you'll see that it's exactly the address which is "spoofed"
20120710 10:08:46< loonycyborg> Yes. It's not impossible, but harder.
20120710 10:09:00< loonycyborg> At least enough to stop an amateur like me :P
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20120710 12:46:38< Crab_> neph_: hello
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20120710 12:46:48< neph_> hi Crab_ 
20120710 12:47:30< Crab_> neph_: so, do you have time now to talk about the enemy attacks aspect? 
20120710 12:47:30< neph_> Crab_, as I stated in the message, I'm kind of stuck with the enemy attacks. I could make them in an ugly way, but that's no good imho.
20120710 12:47:36< neph_> Crab_, yes
20120710 12:48:23< Crab_> what you've tried to do to avoid the duplication?
20120710 12:50:01< neph_> I've tried to factor out a class containing methods that isolate the points, where the attacks are calculated specifically for MY side. That lead to extracting small functions out of big ones, lots of renaming and then trying to reconstruct the attacks vector back
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20120710 12:50:29< neph_> Cause lots of mixup and it got beyond all repair
20120710 12:50:34< neph_> caused*
20120710 12:52:00< neph_> I can try doing the same thing again more carefully
20120710 12:52:19< Crab_> you wanted to do the attack analysis 'for the enemy', as well?
20120710 12:52:50< neph_> Crab_, yes, to preserve consistency between the maps
20120710 12:53:26< neph_> since mattsc, for example, does retaliation calculations using his own calculated enemy_attacks, but in that case he can't compare attack ratings
20120710 12:53:56< Crab_> I see. Well, it's doable but it's quite hard to do. In fact, I thought that we might sometime later have a separate gsoc devoted to work on attacks aspects :))
20120710 12:54:21< Crab_> but, it's possible to do it 'cleanly' now, just be aware that it'll take quite a lot of time
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20120710 12:54:50< neph_> yes, considering that i've already lost a week or so, it seems pretty time consuming
20120710 12:55:15< Crab_> so, let's figure out if we want to do that, or no.
20120710 12:56:07< Crab_> i.e. you can reuse the aspect code for enemy attacks, but calculate enemy attacks 'by hand', by a different routine
20120710 12:56:39< Crab_> that way, at first, you won't get the ability to compare attack ratings, and you'll only get a list of simple attacks
20120710 12:57:06< Crab_> it depends on your plans for July and first part of august
20120710 12:58:14< neph_> Crab_, well, I was planning to do the enemy attacks already in April
20120710 12:58:27< neph_> would be unfair if I would just drop the idea and do something else
20120710 12:58:44< Crab_> well, you can add 'unrated' attacks fairly quickly
20120710 12:58:56< Crab_> especially if you only get 'simple' attacks
20120710 12:58:59< Crab_> that's better than nothing
20120710 12:59:12< Crab_> but, if you choose to do it 'in the right way', you'll spend several weeks on it
20120710 12:59:45< Crab_> so, the question is - if you just add this 'rated enemy attacks' thing, would you be happy with the amount of work done during the summer overall?
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20120710 13:00:40< Crab_> if 'yes', I'd describe the way I think it can be done
20120710 13:01:14< neph_> I think I would be, yes... The timeline and my project page are completely screwed up anyway
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20120710 13:01:49< Crab_> what's important is the usability factor of the lua ai, not the original timeline.
20120710 13:01:59< neph_> I think it would be fine if I just work on what wesnoth really needs
20120710 13:02:17< neph_> Crab_, well, mattsc as the power user of LuaAI seems to be pretty happy
20120710 13:02:30< Crab_> i.e. we want to have it bug-free, and with all the good features. if mattsc thinks that all's good overall, then it'd make sense to try to add the feature
20120710 13:02:31< neph_> I mean about the system
20120710 13:02:39< Crab_> yes, and that's good
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20120710 13:03:21< neph_> It all started because I thought there actually is an equivalent implemented already, and I would just have to expose it
20120710 13:03:26< neph_> turned out otherwise
20120710 13:03:38< Crab_> no, that part is not yet done
20120710 13:03:50< Crab_> so, let's start with http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth/trunk/src/ai/testing/aspect_attacks.cpp
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20120710 13:05:10< Crab_> neph_: we want to have several such aspects in the AI, reusing as much interface/code as possible
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20120710 13:05:29< Crab_> neph_: i.e., 'attacks' and 'enemy attacks'
20120710 13:06:32< Crab_> so, this function checks some filters and then calls do_attack_analysis
20120710 13:07:10< Crab_> each 'do_attack_analysis' is a simulation of an attack of multiple attackers vs a single defender
20120710 13:08:02< Crab_> it should be relatively easy to modify it to allow it to call do_attack_analysis for enemy units attacking our units
20120710 13:08:06< Crab_> that's the easy part
20120710 13:08:18< Crab_> but, not all parameters to do_attack_analysis are passed to it as parameters
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20120710 13:08:43< Crab_> do_attack_analysis also gets some stuff from ai context and current team
20120710 13:11:34< Crab_> and, do_attack_analysis also calls itself recursively (in order to account for multiple attackers)
20120710 13:12:07< Crab_> so, in do_attack_analysis, we have two 'contexts'
20120710 13:12:52< Crab_> first context is the 'current team and situation' context, telling things like available own and enemy moves, current time, previously found attacks, etc'
20120710 13:13:23< Crab_> second context is the actual attack_analysis, which contains info about used attackers and their attack locations, and about various ratings and left hitpoints
20120710 13:13:46< Crab_> note that the first context is not a first-class entity here -it's scattered over various variables and functions
20120710 13:14:27< Crab_> I think that the first refactoring step would be to make a new class/struct for 'current_attack_evaluation_context' (whatever name you want)
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20120710 13:15:37< Crab_> neph_: then, we can have do_attack_analysis(current_attack_evaluation_context &ctx, attack_analysis &analysis);
20120710 13:16:38< Crab_> then, since no actions are done during attack analysis, we can populate current_attack_evaluation_context in aspect_attacks::analyze_targets(), from ai context and various resources::, depending on if it's attacks/enemy attacks
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20120710 13:17:29< Crab_> neph_: then, it'll be easier for you to refactor. i.e., if there'll be a cache of attacks, you can put it into current_attack_evaluation_context
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20120710 13:18:16< Crab_> also, note that, if you want, you can just use the aspect itself as current_attack_evaluation_context - since aspect_attacks::do_attack_analysis is non-static function, you can use aspect_attacks class to store the info.
20120710 13:18:47< Crab_> but, in this case, be sure to clean it up, resetting to proper values before using it
20120710 13:19:16< Crab_> then, attack evaluation won't depend on ai_context at all
20120710 13:19:50< Crab_> attack evaluation would use that 'current_attack_evaluation_context' (which might be set from ai_context at the beginning of evaluation, or set to values proper for the enemy)
20120710 13:20:02< Crab_> neph_: what do you think about trying this approach?
20120710 13:22:08< Crab_> (separate note: also note, when coding, that for some enemy sides, their next turn would have different time-of-day)
20120710 13:22:11< Crab_> i.e. if player is P1 and P3, and ai is P2, then during turn 134 'dusk' of the P2 AI, it's enemy P3 would have turn 134 'dusk', while it's enemy P1 would have next turn at turn 135 'first watch'.
20120710 13:24:36< neph_> Crab_,the approach sounds good, but I'm pretty sure I'll take a turn somewhere and it won't come out just as planned(experience)
20120710 13:25:07< Crab_> yes, I know. but, if things are done right from the architecture point of view, it'll be possible to say what belongs where
20120710 13:25:19< Crab_> so, ping me if you'll encounter issues
20120710 13:25:42< Crab_> and start with just creating a helper class to hold all the info you need for attack evaluation
20120710 13:25:52< neph_> Crab_, what about that SUOKKO code part, is it used at all?
20120710 13:26:40< neph_> it's written inside IFDEFS
20120710 13:26:49< neph_> IFDEF's
20120710 13:26:50< neph_> *
20120710 13:26:52< neph_> damn
20120710 13:27:01< Crab_> No. once upon a time (before I was a developer here), esr had to fix the AI in a situation where there was no active AI maintainer, and ai was broken.
20120710 13:27:40< Crab_> he reverted all the 'suspected' pieces of code, yet, just in case they were important, he put them in #ifdef SUOKKO (named after the developer who committed them)
20120710 13:28:03< Crab_> but, after the fixes, everything was working fine, so the pieces stood not used.
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20120710 13:30:30< Crab_> so, you can just drop those pieces if you want
20120710 13:31:55-!- lipk is now known as lipkab
20120710 13:37:22< neph_> Crab_, and if I start comitting I do that to trunk?
20120710 13:37:42< Crab_> since you start with pure refactoring, you should be able to make sure nothing is broken.
20120710 13:37:44< neph_> example if I want to show you what I've come up with recently, unfinished and broken probably
20120710 13:37:47< Crab_> so, it can be committed to trunk.
20120710 13:38:03< Crab_> but, if you want to show something which is 'probably broken', just send me the patch
20120710 13:38:09< neph_> right
20120710 13:38:43< neph_> just have to keep a copy of the original to see how things were done before the intrusion
20120710 13:39:43< neph_> ok, then, I won't be wasting any more of your time. Thanks, I'll report on the progress
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20120710 13:41:51< Crab_> but ping me (via email) if you need me to do something or take a look at something. and make sure you fill out the evaluation form at google's site (if you haven't already)
20120710 13:42:43< neph_> I have :)
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20120710 16:15:08< CIA-87> anonymissimus * r54684 /trunk/projectfiles/VC9/wesnoth.vcproj: 
20120710 16:15:08< CIA-87> Remove _SECURE_SCL=0 from the preprocessor definitions.
20120710 16:15:08< CIA-87> This caused the visual studio release builds to crash instantly
20120710 16:15:08< CIA-87> upon startup. Apparently due to it being buggy.
20120710 16:15:08< CIA-87> timotei: Please check whether it works for you now.
20120710 16:15:08< CIA-87> gabba: Please be careful with such experiments.
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20120710 16:17:43< anonymissimus> fendrin: around ? I forgot something; you made it so that replace_map takes a [map] child but [terrain_mask] doesn't, that's not good, tehy should have consistent syntax
20120710 16:18:51< anonymissimus> I'm not sure whether they should take a [map] child but it allows to easily preprocessor-include map files into the tags then
20120710 16:19:31< fendrin> anonymissimus: I see.
20120710 16:20:18< anonymissimus> I suggest that you add that [map] child to terrain_mask as well
20120710 16:20:38< anonymissimus> it's still unreleased, so hard syntax changes don't matter
20120710 16:23:54< fendrin> Yes, I will do so.
20120710 16:27:26< anonymissimus> fendrin: "The first version which will not recognize the old format will be 1.13." did we decide to deprecate the old syntax ? I wouldn't mind then, if we had proper wmllint support
20120710 16:29:05< fendrin> anonymissimus: There was a discussion about it. 1.13 seemed to be fine, maybe a better decision process would be with the mailing list involved. 
20120710 16:30:12< fendrin> anonymissimus: Wmllint is another problem, not only related to the map changes. Since esr disappeared the future of the whole tool needs to get discussed. 
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20120710 16:31:47< anonymissimus> hm, esr didn't exactly disappear, did he ? if you say such things he pops up every moment :P
20120710 16:32:10< anonymissimus> its just that he's not working on it
20120710 16:32:45< anonymissimus> but honestly, I can't think what to do without wmllint, even shadowm would agree that it's essential I suppose
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20120710 16:40:28< mattsc> neph_, Crab_: Hi.  I read your discussion.  I'm sorry that it's so difficult...  Didn't know that when I asked for it.
20120710 16:41:03< Crab_> mattsc: hi. it's ok. it's just that part wasn't refactored by me in 2009, so the code in there is somewhat messy.
20120710 16:41:25< mattsc> Question: how hard is it to add [filter_own] and [filter_enemy] to CA's other than combat?  In particular to MtT?
20120710 16:41:55< Crab_> mattsc: (continuing about the attacks and enemy_attacks aspects) if neph_ would be able to do it in the 'proper' way, it'd be easy to plug-in custom attack raters/evaluators
20120710 16:42:58< Crab_> mattsc: on your second question, we talked about it and the answer is 'easy from a coding perspective'
20120710 16:43:28< mattsc> Crab_: but difficult from some other perspective?
20120710 16:43:51< Crab_> mattsc: no, not really
20120710 16:44:02< Crab_> mattsc: the syntax would be like with the attacks aspect
20120710 16:44:15< mattsc> Crab_: ok.  May I change my mind then?
20120710 16:44:19< Crab_> and, see http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth/trunk/src/ai/testing/aspect_attacks.cpp
20120710 16:44:28< Crab_> note config aspect_attacks::to_config() const
20120710 16:44:32< mattsc> Because the more I work on the AI, the more important that (excluding units from CAs) seems to become
20120710 16:44:38< Crab_> note aspect_attacks::aspect_attacks(readonly_context &context, const config &cfg, const std::string &id)
20120710 16:44:42< neph_> Crab_, mattsc I need to scram now, I'll be back in 3 hours, I will read this convo in the logs
20120710 16:45:07< mattsc> neph_: ok.  I'll stay logged in throughout my work day, although I might be afk from time to time
20120710 16:45:49< Crab_> mattsc: note that atm ~6 lines of code are required per each filter (plus 1 line per actual use)
20120710 16:46:01< Crab_> 3 lines for construction, 3 lines for serialization, and 1 line for use
20120710 16:46:12< Crab_> so, the coding required is 7 lines per filter.
20120710 16:46:54< mattsc> Crab_: I've ssen that piece of code before (that's how I found out about it :) ).  Doing exactly the same thing for the other CAs would be perfect.
20120710 16:47:54< mattsc> Well, obviously [filter_enemy] does not apply to a lot of CAs.
20120710 16:48:09< Crab_> there are some catches
20120710 16:49:06< Crab_> MtT, as written, checks actions in a loop like 'foreach target, foreach friendly unit which still can move...'
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20120710 16:49:46< mattsc> Crab_: yeah, I believe from what I have seen that all units are moved with only a single call to MtT, right?
20120710 16:49:48-!- neph_ [~neph@80.233.231.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
20120710 16:50:05< Crab_> mattsc: it'd be slow if we just check the filter each time, since, as opposed to 'guardian', we don't want to strip the unit from moves if he's not moving now.
20120710 16:50:13< mattsc> Rather than: move one unit, then reevaluate?
20120710 16:50:20< Crab_> mattsc: yes, just a single call. this is to optimize speed.
20120710 16:51:02< mattsc> That causes some limitations for customizability also, but maybe that's unavoidable in this case.
20120710 16:51:30< Crab_> MtT is supposed to be the 'last catch-all'
20120710 16:51:35< Crab_> so, MtT would have to be slightly rewritten to allow filtering
20120710 16:52:00< Crab_> but, in most of the other CAs it's easy to add support for filters.
20120710 16:52:16< Crab_> it'd need to keep a cache of 'eligible' units
20120710 16:52:28< Crab_> Ayne: hello
20120710 16:52:32< mattsc> From my perspective, MtT is by far the most important though.  So is that reasonable to ask for or another one of those that turns into a rats tail of work also?
20120710 16:53:02< Crab_> mattsc: compared to work on attacks/enemy attacks, changes to MtT to support filters are very easy coding.
20120710 16:53:16< Ayne> hello
20120710 16:53:29< Crab_> Ayne: I've not done a full review, but I've looked through the code.
20120710 16:53:36< Crab_> Ayne: I think that game_data should not be accessed outside of game, with the exception of transitions like move from game_data to bank', 'move from bank to game_data', 'initialize game_data from config', 'snapshop game_data to config'.
20120710 16:53:37< mattsc> Crab_: I understand the 'last catch-all' thing, but I have encountererd situations where I wanted to do something different and couldn't.  At least not "cleanly".
20120710 16:54:03< Crab_> mattsc: no, I'm not saying 'it should remain a catch-all'. I'm just saying that it was designed to be fast in different use-case.
20120710 16:54:21< Crab_> mattsc: so, we need to add a cache there to make it fast with 'not all units are moved' use case.
20120710 16:54:22< Ayne> Crab_: so the parts I mentioned would be alright to keep the way they are as they are initializing game_data?
20120710 16:54:33< Crab_> I think that game_data should not be accessed outside of game, with the exception of transitions like move from game_data to bank', 'move from bank to game_data', 'initialize game_data from config', 'snapshop game_data to config'.
20120710 16:54:40< Crab_> So, if out-of-game access to in-game data is, in theory, invalid, then each and every place where this happens must be somehow broken/fishy :)
20120710 16:54:56< mattsc> Crab_: ok.  I'll let you discuss things with Ayne.  I'll be online for the next ... many hours.
20120710 16:55:17< Crab_> mattsc: :))
20120710 16:55:26< Crab_> Ayne: but, note that variables and wml menu items are special
20120710 16:56:46< mattsc> Crab_: I'll just write it down now, but no need to reply.  Currently, my preference of priorities would be:
20120710 16:57:05< mattsc> 1a: Filter for in/excluding units from all CA's, in particular MtT
20120710 16:57:27< mattsc> 1b: Move units one at a time in MtT (don't know if that is necessary for 1a anyway)
20120710 16:57:31< Ayne> Crab_: special in what way?
20120710 16:57:59< mattsc> 2: get_enemy_attacks()
20120710 16:58:08< Crab_> Ayne: they exist both out-of-game and in-game
20120710 16:58:59< Crab_> Ayne: so, out-of-game they exist 'in the bank'
20120710 16:59:06< Crab_> then, they are carried over to the game
20120710 16:59:11< mattsc> 3. Implementing a 'suicidal_leader' aspect as an option, i.e., being able to let the leader participate in MtT (this is a request as a WML campaign designer, not as a Lua AI coder :D )
20120710 16:59:33< mattsc> 4. The other things listed here: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Practical_Guide_to_Modifying_AI_Behavior#Ideas_for_Potentially_Easy_AI_Patches
20120710 17:00:03< Crab_> Ayne: then, at the end of game, they're carried 'to the bank' (and to the next scenarios)
20120710 17:00:20< Ayne> that carrying over, should that happen outside or inside the game? I.e. in the places it currently is happening or in play_controller?
20120710 17:01:13< mattsc> Besides that, the changes neph has made already are great improvements already and everything I've tested so far works.
20120710 17:02:32< Crab_> Ayne: ideally, play_controller should collect all the info 'into a package' or provide access to it, and code in playcampaign should put it into a bank
20120710 17:03:57< Crab_> Ayne: I think that current playcampaign.cpp does it nicely with gold in store_carryover()
20120710 17:04:15< Crab_> (there's some extra UI-related code there, but, apart from that, it's ok)
20120710 17:04:59< Ayne> So I move the transfer to game_data into play_controller, and add the transfer from game_data into carryover_info to playcampaign?
20120710 17:05:06< Crab_> so, apart from 	gamestate.carryover_sides.transfer_from(t, carryover_gold); for each team , there should be code to do something like    gamestate.carryover_sides.transfer_from(game_data);
20120710 17:05:24< Crab_> yes for the second part
20120710 17:06:34< Crab_> and, for the first part, also 'yes'
20120710 17:06:57< Crab_> since you pass the 'config init_level' to play_controller
20120710 17:07:13< Crab_> so, all the variables/teams/gold/recalls/menu items are supposed to be available in that level
20120710 17:08:07< Crab_> so, play_controller would be able to populate its in-game data from that level config.
20120710 17:08:23< Ayne> ok, so I'll just have to make sure that I pass the correct variables and stuff over in init_level, the same way I'm currently doing it with gold and recalls and then transfer it into game_data in play_controller
20120710 17:08:36< Crab_> yes
20120710 17:09:50< Crab_> also note that we're slightly cheating on the transfer back from play_controller into the bank
20120710 17:10:21< Crab_> instead of doing it 'after the game ends, out of game, based on something like serialized config end_level_state', we're doing it differently
20120710 17:11:01< Crab_> we're doing it 'just after the game ends from player's Point of View, but still in game (playcontroller is alive), based on play_controller's state and objects'
20120710 17:12:13< Crab_> We can continue doing that, this is just something to be aware of
20120710 17:12:50< Crab_> but note, that we need to support 'save game' function
20120710 17:12:51< Ayne> ok
20120710 17:13:00< Crab_> so, we need the code to serialize the game state to snapshot
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20120710 17:13:14< Crab_> so, as we need this code anyway, we can stop "cheating"  if we want to.
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20120710 17:14:00< Crab_> that way, after level ends, just ask play_controller to shapshot itself (basically, snapshot of game_data - same as in the snapshot which is the savegame)
20120710 17:14:46< Crab_> s/shapshot/snapshot
20120710 17:15:08< Crab_> Ayne: then, we'll have  "transfer from end level snapshot to the bank"
20120710 17:16:07< Crab_> but, so far I see no concrete benefit of doing so.
20120710 17:17:04< Crab_> Ayne: so, for now, let's just make sure we cleanly separate out-of-game info vs in-game info. And the access to in-game info in playcampaign.cpp is ok if it happens in store_carryover method
20120710 17:17:22< Crab_> but, other access to in-game info from out-of-game should not be ok.
20120710 17:17:42< Ayne> my personal preference would be to transfer from game_data to bank rather than from snapshot. It makes it easier to understand as well in my opinion.
20120710 17:17:42< Ayne> ok
20120710 17:18:31< Crab_> yes, transferring from game_data to bank is better code-wise, I agree.
20120710 17:19:35< Crab_> I just wanted to explain why we access game_data at that point (since the game has technically ended, yet it all the data is still "alive", and it's possible to launch play_controller in linger mode or collect all the data to the bank)
20120710 17:21:28< Crab_> and we put it in playcampaign, not in play_controller, just to have all the carryover code closer to playcampaign.cpp , in one piece.
20120710 17:22:51< Ayne> makes sense
20120710 17:22:51< Crab_> Ayne: please let me know if you'll find any other access to in-game info from outside the game where you'll need explanation of why it happens
20120710 17:22:59< Crab_> (or any write access to out-of-game info from within the game)
20120710 17:23:44< Ayne> I will, thank you, but so far it seems to be only those 3 places where the variables are set. We'll see what the compiler finds later on
20120710 17:24:28< Crab_> And, multiplayer connection stuff should use out-of-game access rules.
20120710 17:24:38< Crab_> i.e. mess with the bank - ok, mess with init level config -ok, etc.
20120710 17:26:00< Crab_> i.e. check the lifetime of the rng - it might be out-of-game as well, at least partially.
20120710 17:31:42< Crab_> Ayne: I'll have to go, bye. Mail if you'll have more questions or suggestions. And make sure you complete that questionnaire at Google's site.
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20120710 17:32:13< Ayne> ok, thanks :)
20120710 17:32:14< Ayne> bye
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20120710 19:02:41< mordante> servus
20120710 19:02:56< lipkab> hi mordante
20120710 19:03:49< mordante> hi lipkab 
20120710 19:25:11< vultraz> mordante: are there any other GUI2 window size keys besides maximum_width/height?
20120710 19:27:26< mordante> vultraz, IIRC not
20120710 19:28:03< vultraz> then how come min_width/height and width/height are documented in the wiki
20120710 19:29:01< mordante> they are around for other widgets, not 100% sure whether also for the window
20120710 19:29:15< lipkab> mordante: I've uploaded the newest iteration of the modifications patch to Gna, in case you're interested.
20120710 19:29:17< mordante> but not all those keys work entirely as wanted yet :-(
20120710 19:29:50< mordante> lipkab, I am, maybe have time later this evening
20120710 19:29:57< mordante> maybe I*
20120710 19:30:26< lipkab> That'd be really awesome.
20120710 19:30:56< lipkab> I'm all available for comments.
20120710 19:33:53< mordante> ok
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20120710 20:58:42< anonymissimus> mordante: cmake+MSVC worked except for libintl prob
20120710 20:59:02< anonymissimus> timotei: you may try again, I found some problem
20120710 20:59:09< mordante> anonymissimus, ok nice :-)
20120710 20:59:31< anonymissimus> timotei: did you also add debug info to the release build ?
20120710 21:00:23< anonymissimus> mordante: I guess the next release is still a while, so if you rush in your cmake patch I can test it
20120710 21:01:24< mordante> anonymissimus, I just rebased my patch, compile testing now
20120710 21:01:35< timotei> anonymissimus: no I didn't IIRC
20120710 21:01:45< timotei> anonymissimus: I'll try recompiling now
20120710 21:04:41< anonymissimus> timotei: ok well, my MSVC release build has been crashing and now it works as in the past; that added define was the cause
20120710 21:05:29< anonymissimus> and I wondered how you could know about where it crashes without debug info
20120710 21:07:09< CIA-87> mordante * r54685 /trunk/ (CMakeLists.txt INSTALL RELEASE_NOTES): (log message trimmed)
20120710 21:07:09< CIA-87> Changes the CMake compiler flags.
20120710 21:07:09< CIA-87> At the moment the flags are determined on the first run and stored in
20120710 21:07:09< CIA-87> CMAKE_CXX_FLAGS, CMAKE_CXX_FLAGS_DEBUG and CMAKE_CXX_FLAGS_RELEASE[*].
20120710 21:07:09< CIA-87> This was actuall not a good idea, since CMake combines CMAKE_CXX_FLAGS
20120710 21:07:10< CIA-87> with the CMAKE_CXX_FLAGS_<BUILD_TYPE>. The problem with this setup is
20120710 21:07:10< CIA-87> when the compiler is changed the flags are reset to their defaults and
20120710 21:08:13< mordante> anonymissimus, ^
20120710 21:08:35< mordante> no idea why libintl gives you so much trouble
20120710 21:09:08< timotei> anonymissimus: what error you get for libintl?
20120710 21:09:41< timotei> anonymissimus: ..\..\src\gui\auxiliary\window_builder.cpp:119 ASSSERTION FAILED: 0
20120710 21:09:42< timotei> xD
20120710 21:09:46< timotei> mordante: ^
20120710 21:09:58< timotei> When starting wesnoth
20120710 21:11:54< Ivanovic> mordante: in case it makes a difference for packagers please make sure to add the cmake change to the release notes file
20120710 21:12:46< mordante> Ivanovic, The part to determine the CMake compiler flags has been rewritten and now has better support for compiler specific enabling of targets. Therefore it is recommended to regenerate your CMake build.
20120710 21:14:11< mordante> timotei, which revision are you using (that line holds no assert for me) ?
20120710 21:14:24< timotei> mordante: the one just before your commit
20120710 21:14:31< timotei> r54684
20120710 21:15:12< timotei> 		window->finalize(definition->grid);
20120710 21:16:08< mordante> yeah that's line 119 for me as well, but I don't see an assertion
20120710 21:16:26< mordante> is definition->grid the cause?
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20120710 21:24:55< mordante> lipkab, looking at your patch
20120710 21:25:35< mordante> the problem I had with e1 and e2 is that when reading the code it's unclear whether e1 conflicts with e2 or the other way around
20120710 21:28:08< lipkab> mordante: "conflict" is commutative
20120710 21:28:34< anonymissimus> timotei: well...get a debug build and a backtrace...
20120710 21:28:38< lipkab> Also, you have some special talent to always ping me while I'm having shower...
20120710 21:29:07< mordante> that's because I already had a shower today :-P
20120710 21:30:54< mordante> lipkab, sorry meant requires
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20120710 21:32:24< lipkab> mordante: Oh well. I just couldn't think out any clever names.
20120710 21:32:48< lipkab> I think it's clear in the comment, though.
20120710 21:33:24< mordante> yeah but that means you always have to refer to the comment for its meaning, it would be nice to find more descriptive names
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20120710 21:34:45< anonymissimus> mordante: btw are you from Netherlands and just know German ? your name seems to suggest it
20120710 21:35:03< mordante> lipkab, personally I really like more {} after if's and else's, just in case somebody fauls up the indent level
20120710 21:35:13< mordante> especially when deeper nested
20120710 21:35:35< lipkab> Me, too, but I just can't overcome my lazyness in some cases.
20120710 21:35:46< mordante> but I think with BOOST_FOREACH we really need to add them, they are no normal language construct
20120710 21:36:14< lipkab> ...and where did I miss that?
20120710 21:36:59< mordante> 1 sec
20120710 21:37:35< lipkab> Time over. I found it, by the way.
20120710 21:38:13< mordante> both? at line 1245 and line 1309
20120710 21:38:25< lipkab> Both :P
20120710 21:38:29< mordante> good
20120710 21:38:37< mordante> anonymissimus, my real name or my IRC nick?
20120710 21:38:44< lipkab> I just know which functions are copypasted.
20120710 21:38:53< mordante> ok good
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20120710 21:39:21< mordante> btw I'll try to come up with better names for e(lem)1 and and e(lem)2
20120710 21:39:43< mordante> I'm sure my compiler won't finish compiling the patch before I'm off
20120710 21:39:58< lipkab> They'll be welcome.
20120710 21:41:17< mordante> will have a closer look when I can compile the patch
20120710 21:41:30< lipkab> Alright.
20120710 21:45:10< anonymissimus> mordante: real name
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20120710 21:45:37< anonymissimus> I can't parse your nick
20120710 21:47:19< mordante> ok and then is the question does my real name sound Dutch or German, obviously I know the answer ;-) so yeah I'm from the Netherlands and also speak German
20120710 21:49:57< anonymissimus> okay :)
20120710 21:50:23< anonymissimus> was just wondering
20120710 21:52:00< mordante> speaking German while visiting Germany makes life a lot easier ;-)
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20120710 21:58:13< anonymissimus> mordante: could we somehow set the default warning level to 4 when generating the MSVC project file ? that's what it's set to in teh standalone version
20120710 21:58:36< anonymissimus> and I see it's set to 1 atm, that's unfortunate
20120710 21:59:42< mordante> let me have a look
20120710 22:02:35< mordante> anonymissimus, what about this patch? http://paste.debian.net/178522/
20120710 22:08:26< anonymissimus> mordante: works
20120710 22:08:39< mordante> anonymissimus, ok cool shall I commit it?
20120710 22:09:27< shadowm> anonymissimus: wmllint is the wrong solution to the problem it's supposed to solve. I wouldn't mind a replacement with equivalent and better functionality.
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20120710 22:10:28< anonymissimus> mordante: I'm getting spammed with warnings...so no, better not...but at least I can set automatically, thx
20120710 22:11:01< mordante> anonymissimus, ok is there a better default level?
20120710 22:15:51< anonymissimus> mordante: actually, seems the -Wall parameter causes the warnign spam
20120710 22:17:50< mordante> anonymissimus, ok maybe we can comment them out for MSVC with if(NOT MSVC)
20120710 22:18:20< mordante> I could cook up a patch later this week; I'm about to leave
20120710 22:19:32< anonymissimus> mordante: okay, perhaps remove the -Wall if MSVC but set warn level to 4
20120710 22:20:20< anonymissimus> and I don't know what -Wall eneables additionally for MSVC, never used it and fixed or muted warnings
20120710 22:22:39< mordante> anonymissimus, ok will cook up some patches later this week
20120710 22:22:42< mordante> I'm off now
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20120710 22:23:56< anonymissimus> mordante: actually, there's mroe to worry about, getting compiler errors now
20120710 22:24:21< anonymissimus> (which must be caused by the changes to Cmakelists)
20120710 22:26:31< anonymissimus> shadowm: sure :)
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--- Log closed Wed Jul 11 00:00:21 2012