--- Log opened Mon Jul 23 00:00:49 2012
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20120723 01:37:08< vultraz> Jetrel: http://imagebin.org/221777 am I finally doing it right?
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20120723 01:49:51-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 179 bugs, 338 feature requests, 17 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20120723 08:02:26< CIA-87> vultraz * r54838 /trunk/images/editor/tool-overlay-label.png: Added hex overlay for label tool
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20120723 18:19:31< fendrin> helle
20120723 18:19:36< fendrin> hi AI0867
20120723 18:21:17< fendrin> AI0867: I have a working prototype that allows defining [area]s with the editor's hex field selection feature. There is also a rough design of a class that implements the [area] at the game side of the application.
20120723 18:21:44< fendrin> AI0867: May I ask what you need about [area]?
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20120723 18:52:28< AI0867> fendrin: nothing currently, just wondering about the progress
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20120723 18:53:52< AI0867> despite [slf]find_in, I think it would be useful in WML even without the editor part
20120723 18:54:38< fendrin> AI0867: What kind of use cases do you see?
20120723 18:55:03< vultraz> fendrin: should I also commit the soundsource and item buttons?
20120723 18:57:07< AI0867> not sure, haven't thought about it in a while, but it feels more elegant to actually address areas
20120723 18:58:40< vultraz> AI0867: like, [area] instead of a huge SLF with 20 x,y coords?
20120723 18:58:50< fendrin> AI0867: It can serve as an interface, you can specify scenarios that can be played with maps that provide a certain set of [area]s.
20120723 18:59:54< fendrin> vultraz: Yes, please. I can put the items in place already.
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20120723 19:06:52< CIA-87> vultraz * r54839 /trunk/images/buttons/ (6 files): Added soundsource and item tool buttons
20120723 19:07:20< vultraz> fendrin: ^
20120723 19:07:22< CIA-87> fendrin * r54840 /trunk/src/editor/editor_controller.cpp: 
20120723 19:07:23< CIA-87> Set the resources::state_of_game pointer when creating the editor.
20120723 19:07:23< CIA-87> Fixes a segfault when placing a unit whose drawing deponds on a working gamestate at the default map.
20120723 19:07:52< fendrin> vultraz: Thanks.
20120723 19:10:01< vultraz> no prob :)
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20120723 19:17:18< CIA-87> fendrin * r54841 /trunk/src/editor/action/mouse/mouse_action_map_label.cpp: Enabled the label tool specific icon image.
20120723 19:17:39< fendrin> vultraz: ^ It just looks horrible in game :-)
20120723 19:19:35< Espreon> Ivanovic: Ummm... A New Land is mainline.
20120723 19:19:36< vultraz> erm?
20120723 19:20:45< Espreon> Ivanovic: Yes, I read the e-mail you sent me.
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20120723 19:30:13< mordante> servus
20120723 19:30:29< mordante> wesbot, seen Akihara
20120723 19:30:29< wesbot> mordante: The person with the nick Akihara last spoke 7d 2h ago.  2d 10h ago was here and on the channel #wesnoth with the message: Remote host closed the connection
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20120723 19:46:32< lipkab> hi mordante
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20120723 19:46:59< lipkab> How annoyed you would be if I expanded my patch a bit?
20120723 19:47:13< lipkab> About 500 actual code lines.
20120723 19:49:33< Ivanovic> Espreon: oh, really?
20120723 19:49:43< Ivanovic> man, it sounded so unfamiliar in the early morning...
20120723 19:50:21< Ivanovic> Espreon: will you commit it anyway?
20120723 19:51:16< mordante> lipkab, not a problem, but please keep the formatting in mind
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20120723 20:03:36< vultraz> fendrin: did you disable the unit tool?
20120723 20:03:45< vultraz> cuz it's not working here
20120723 20:10:20< vultraz> fendrin: also, shouldn't the 'Side' menu be the same size as the other menus if there's enough space/high enough res? http://imagebin.org/221874
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20120723 21:04:03< fendrin> vultraz: Yes, if the space is enough I am going to use the bigger menu button.
20120723 21:04:21< fendrin> vultraz: The unit tool is not disabled, but you need to define at least one side to be able to use it.
20120723 21:08:15< vultraz> fendrin: ahhh. maybe you should indicate that in the tooltip or something
20120723 21:09:12< vultraz> and stdrr is spitting weird stuff...
20120723 21:09:15< vultraz> Assertion failed: (valid()), function operator*, file ../../src/unit_map.hpp, line 201.
20120723 21:10:31< fendrin> äh
20120723 21:10:48< fendrin> How can I reproduce the assertion failed thing?
20120723 21:11:18< lipkab> mordante: I've been converted, I don't use long lines anymore.
20120723 21:11:33< lipkab> zookeeper: around?
20120723 21:12:09< mordante> lipkab, nice :-)
20120723 21:12:29< fendrin> lipkab: no more long lines? That means you can't press a whole application in a single line any more?
20120723 21:13:22 * fendrin believes, the wesnoth source code should be in a single file...
20120723 21:13:58 * mordante wonders whether he should call a doctor for fendrin, looks like a sunstroke
20120723 21:14:04< fendrin> ;-)
20120723 21:14:25< lipkab> fendrin: No, it means that I'm now breaking code into 20 char lines ;)
20120723 21:14:36< mordante> fendrin, good thing you gave us your address at the Fosdem :-P
20120723 21:16:00< lipkab> And actually the Wesnoth source code is in a single file, it's called wesnoth-1.10.3.tar.gz or something like that.
20120723 21:18:20< mordante> fendrin, some nice c code for you http://www.ioccc.org/2011/2011.tar.bz2
20120723 21:19:53< zookeeper> lipkab, yes
20120723 21:20:06< vultraz> fendrin: try dragging the hex while a unit is selected, like you would to draw a line of terrain
20120723 21:20:35< vultraz> fendrin: yup...that just made it segfault...
20120723 21:20:45< vultraz> same assertion error
20120723 21:21:05< lipkab> zookeeper: Well, three things...
20120723 21:21:29< fendrin> vultraz: Ah yes. When you try to drag and drop an empty hex --> assertion exit
20120723 21:22:02< vultraz> yes
20120723 21:22:44< fendrin> vultraz: That is easy to fix, I just did not try to test that, thank you very much :-)
20120723 21:23:04< lipkab> zookeeper: Firstly, I discarded the option grouping idea. I was afraid that the dialog would be ridiculously thin if the widgets were displayed only in a single column, and the grouping method would have served as a simple way to determine how to break them into two.
20120723 21:23:17< vultraz> no porb
20120723 21:23:21< vultraz> prob*
20120723 21:23:34< lipkab> zookeeper: But actually, it looks pretty well in one row.
20120723 21:23:50< lipkab> *column
20120723 21:24:10< fendrin> vultraz: Beside of that bug, how do you think about the new features? Do they "feel" fine? Can you save the map and use it in the multiplayer lobby?
20120723 21:24:45< lipkab> zookeeper: So, if you can't think of other use cases, I'd let the groups go.
20120723 21:26:07< vultraz> fendrin: I haven't tried saving for awhile, but last time I did it worked. I can't do anything outside the editor tho, bc of some stupid Mac OS X 10.7 issue that only allow me to run the editor :S
20120723 21:26:12< vultraz> allows*
20120723 21:27:25< vultraz> fendrin: the part about creating a side first seems a bit clumsy. I think you should always have at least side 1 defines by default
20120723 21:27:43< zookeeper> lipkab, "option grouping" == displaying each set of [modifications] (or whatever the tag was called) under a separate heading? like gambciv and snowflakes in http://imagebin.org/221674 ?
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20120723 21:28:52< lipkab> zookeeper: No, those're different components there. Groups would have allowed subsections within a single add-on.
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20120723 21:29:16< zookeeper> oh right, good.
20120723 21:31:01< lipkab> zookeeper: Secondly, I changed the WML interface a bit compared to what I've discussed with you. The options used to be named after the values they were meant to retrieve, but I realized that all values will be converted into the standard WML attribute value format anyways, so it's kind of misleading to distinguish them by value type. Instead the options are now named after the widget which represents them.
20120723 21:32:05< zookeeper> yeah i don't think that's an important feature. it'd be good practise for a modification to provide as few options as possible anyway (rather than bloating the dialog with all sorts of random crap), and if you absolutely need more grouping you can simply provide more primary groups.
20120723 21:32:23< lipkab> Okay, good.
20120723 21:33:02< lipkab> (More primary groups == more modifications, though)
20120723 21:33:31< zookeeper> i did consider suggesting renaming the tags when you showed be your WML proposal, but i felt it was good as it is as [boolean] etc did convey the function just as well as [checkbox] would. i have no particular opinion on it.
20120723 21:34:49< zookeeper> so... thirdly? :P
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20120723 21:35:03< zookeeper> oh.
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20120723 21:35:43< lipkab> No panic, I'm alive.
20120723 21:36:16< vultraz> hehe
20120723 21:37:29< lipkab> So, thirdly: setting the options in a prestart event has much more limitations than I initially thought of - for e.g. you can't use a boolean option's value for a first_time_only key.
20120723 21:38:27< lipkab> zookeeper: This is plain theory (I surely won't implement anything like that in the current patch), but it'd be desirable to have a preload-like event which triggers only once.
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20120723 21:39:53< zookeeper> "you can't use a boolean option's value for a first_time_only key" <- why's that a problem? AFAIK you've never been able to use variables in first_time_only (except when creating nested events)
20120723 21:40:23< lipkab> Yeah, but I'd imagine that as a common use case.
20120723 21:40:55< lipkab> So common that I wanted to use it in my very first test stuff.
20120723 21:40:59< zookeeper> dunno. i've never felt the need :P
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20120723 21:42:36< lipkab> Stupid wifi.
20120723 21:43:01< lipkab> The problem is that you set the options in the game creation screen which implies that the values are available at startup.
20120723 21:43:09< zookeeper> so, it'd be difficult to just... set the variables immediately (so that they carry onto the scenario whenever it starts) rather than creating events which set the variables?
20120723 21:43:25< lipkab> *gulp*
20120723 21:43:33< lipkab> I don't know.
20120723 21:43:49< lipkab> But starts as a frighteningly low level operation.
20120723 21:43:53< lipkab> *sounds
20120723 21:43:53< zookeeper> if there's a way to create events which set the variables, then why can't you just set the variables directly? it sounds awfully similar :P not that i know that particular code at all
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20120723 21:45:02< fendrin> vultraz: At the time you create a side, one is written to the map file when saving. Thus the user may not always want to create sides.
20120723 21:45:03< zookeeper> if you have code which checks the values and then creates events which set corresponding variables, then it doesn't sound very different to have code which checks the values and then sets the variables. to me, that is.
20120723 21:45:30< lipkab> The difficulty is with syncing among the clients. Inserting some stuff in the scenario code is rather easy and WML is automatically sent to all clients.
20120723 21:46:03< vultraz> fendrin: hm..yes, good point....
20120723 21:46:52< fendrin> vultraz: I mean, the alternative is to have the side in control with the text editor, in the scenario file, and not in the map file.
20120723 21:46:56< lipkab> I won't pretend that I have the slightest clue of how variables are set, but I guess that's way inside the unsynced deeps in the WML engine.
20120723 21:47:14< lipkab> *of the WML engine
20120723 21:47:34< fendrin> vultraz: The main problem is that I don't really know what MP scenario designers would like to see.
20120723 21:47:50< zookeeper> lipkab, maybe, maybe not. worth taking a look, perhaps? in any case, i'd still say prestart is fine, but i do wonder what'd happen if you have a preload event without first_time_only=no
20120723 21:48:01< fendrin> vultraz: My current goal is to enable a "chess problem" like type of scenario creation.
20120723 21:48:22< vultraz> fendrin: I'm guessing the former would allow basic mp scenario creation and use w/o exiting the game, right?
20120723 21:48:43< fendrin> vultraz: Most turn&hex based games come with scenarios where units are already spread over the map.
20120723 21:48:59< lipkab> zookeeper: Hmm, ok. As I said, this isn't a top priority problem right now, but I'll think about it.
20120723 21:49:58< fendrin> vultraz: Well, there a basically two types of MP scenarios possibly currently. The first one defines only starting positions thus, the recruit list is determined by the faction and leader chosen to fit in this place by the player.
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20120723 21:51:06< fendrin> The alternative, like LoW multiplayer scenarios do it, is to determine the leader and recruit/recall lists in the [side] tags and to disable the faction choosing.
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20120723 21:51:37< fendrin> Still the UI is insufficient to inform the player correctly about the later.
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20120723 21:52:07< vultraz> fendrin: so..I'm still sorta confused of the problem here
20120723 21:52:34< fendrin> The "chess problem" type of scenario design, seems to fit better with predefined leaders/recruit lists.
20120723 21:53:07< fendrin> But this means the user needs to be in control of some [side] attributes from inside the editor.
20120723 21:53:35< fendrin> You can currently only design player start points together with sides providing extra units.
20120723 21:53:46< vultraz> hm...
20120723 21:54:44< vultraz> so basically, right now you can do like, side 1 start here with these units, using the stats I've given in [side]side=1?
20120723 21:54:55< vultraz> (from the editor)
20120723 21:55:29< vultraz> and you want to be able to control [side] from within the editor?
20120723 21:56:03< fendrin> Well, currently you can add a side in the editor which is preconfigured to support a starting position where a user cosed leader with the recruit list of his faction is deployed.
20120723 21:56:44< fendrin> s/cosed/chosen
20120723 21:57:01< vultraz> hm...
20120723 21:57:07< fendrin> The new place unit feature allows to add additional units to this side.
20120723 21:57:16< fendrin> But I think that does not make much sense.
20120723 21:57:44< fendrin> It would be better to place leaders in the editor and to also choose recruit lists there.
20120723 21:58:19< fendrin> This way one can easily produce "chess problems", out of the box.
20120723 21:58:56< vultraz> so why not add some kind of side config dialog
20120723 21:59:19< vultraz> or a tool in the sidebar (I recall you have 2 empty spaces, I think)
20120723 21:59:27< fendrin> The gui2 system still lacks some widgets needed for such a dialog.
20120723 21:59:59< vultraz> for example?
20120723 22:00:35< fendrin> easy to use selection boxes with predefined contents.
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20120723 22:00:53< vultraz> like listboxes?
20120723 22:00:57< fendrin> yes
20120723 22:01:05< fendrin> or radio buttons
20120723 22:01:16< vultraz> what's wrong with the current listboxes
20120723 22:01:50< AI0867> radio buttons are better for small numbers of options
20120723 22:02:04< AI0867> you can see verything *without* having to open up the list
20120723 22:02:05< vultraz> as for radio buttons...wouldn't a checkbox do?
20120723 22:02:26< fendrin> yeah, and the listboxes need to much coding, they are not working out of the box like text or boolean input fields.
20120723 22:02:39< AI0867> checkboxes have been hacked into radio buttons occasionally, but that's just confusing the user
20120723 22:02:55< AI0867> but what we really need is the art, the code isn't that hard
20120723 22:03:16< fendrin> At the end I need a gui dialog that can be feed with a wml schema and thats it.
20120723 22:03:17< AI0867> though I suppose making it function with some programmer art first would helpl that
20120723 22:03:41< fendrin> a schema + the current values
20120723 22:03:50< fendrin> meaning just the config
20120723 22:04:04< vultraz> fendrin: so, basically, a sideconfig dialog can't be made
20120723 22:04:13< fendrin> well, it can be made
20120723 22:04:20< fendrin> but I do not want to hardcode it
20120723 22:04:38< fendrin> I want a dialog that is able to edit any wml tag whatever.
20120723 22:04:48< vultraz> ahh
20120723 22:04:56< vultraz> so not just stuff for [side]
20120723 22:05:04< fendrin> right
20120723 22:05:18< vultraz> that complicates things...
20120723 22:05:25< fendrin> well yes
20120723 22:06:05< fendrin> on the other hand, I need dialogs for unit, side, label, soundsource, scenario and maybe more.
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20120723 22:06:41< vultraz> basically you would need to have the dialog print out 1 option for each modifiable attribute in any given tag?
20120723 22:06:45< fendrin> At least some framework that can be easily feed with the semantics of the tag to edit if not read out of a schema cfg would be very nice.
20120723 22:07:10< CIA-87> espreon * r54842 /trunk/po/wesnoth-anl/el.po: Updated the Greek translation.
20120723 22:07:20< fendrin> vultraz: The dialog needs to look into the schema to get what attribute supports what type of input.
20120723 22:07:38< fendrin> Then it needs to generate the fitting gui line for that attribute/subtag.
20120723 22:07:47< vultraz> ah...even harder..
20120723 22:07:58< fendrin> Well yes.
20120723 22:08:31< vultraz> is that even vaguely possible?
20120723 22:08:50< fendrin> sure
20120723 22:09:06< mordante> I'm off night
20120723 22:09:11< fendrin> mordante: bye
20120723 22:09:18< vultraz> cya mordante 
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20120723 22:09:43< lipkab> vultraz: I've just done it ;)
20120723 22:10:23< vultraz> lipkab: oh is THAT what all this stuff I've been hearing about what you're doing is?
20120723 22:10:55< fendrin> lipkab: What did you just do?
20120723 22:11:33< lipkab> I've done a code which produces a dialog out of a WML schema at runtime.
20120723 22:11:39< lipkab> *some code
20120723 22:11:53< fendrin> lipkab: Goodlike, is it already commited?
20120723 22:12:00< fendrin> godlike
20120723 22:12:03< lipkab> Of course not.
20120723 22:12:09< fendrin> Hell
20120723 22:12:25< fendrin> I need it.
20120723 22:12:37< lipkab> And it isn't really a general framework.
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20120723 22:13:09< fendrin> lipkab: Please tell me more.
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20120723 22:13:55< lipkab> Well, what I'm working in on is an interface to allow to set custom WML variables on the game creation screen.
20120723 22:14:06< lipkab> *working on
20120723 22:14:19< lipkab> These are the so-called options.
20120723 22:14:52< Espreon> mordante: And it seems CMake can't find fribidi on here. I have fribidi 0.19.2-r2; I'm using Sabayon Linux.
20120723 22:15:16< fendrin> lipkab: Well, that sounds pretty much general enough to be used for my purposes as well, at least we can see that it can work for both use cases of not more.
20120723 22:15:28< fendrin> s/of/if
20120723 22:16:46< lipkab> fendrin: I'll upload the new version of the patch soon, have a look at the mp_options.cpp part, and if you think you can make use of it, I can make it into an independent chunk.
20120723 22:16:51< CIA-87> espreon * r54843 /branches/1.10/po/wesnoth-anl/el.po: Updated the Greek translation.
20120723 22:18:53< fendrin> lipkab: Every gui element should have it's own class.
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20120723 22:21:22< lipkab> fendrin: Uh-oh, there're no classes at all atm ;)
20120723 22:21:57< lipkab> It's really just some code which turns some kind of WML into another kind of WML.
20120723 22:22:24< lipkab> OptionWML to GuiToolkitWML, namely.
20120723 22:22:54< lipkab> fendrin: https://gna.org/patch/index.php?3297
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20120723 22:26:24< fendrin> lipkab: Okay, I will have a look.
20120723 22:26:58< fendrin> vultraz: It's still not mentioned that you can drag and drop the unit's facing with the right mouse button.
20120723 22:27:25< vultraz> oh, you can do that? cool
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20120723 22:30:44< fendrin> vultraz: Adjusting the facing when coding cutscenes is always a pain in the ass. I always dreamed of a tool which can arrange the facing visually. Still the editor is not fit to arrange cut scenes.
20120723 22:31:37< vultraz> how could you do that, when facings in a cutscene change at a totally random basis that replies on the cutscene design...
20120723 22:31:41< vultraz> relies*
20120723 22:33:53< vultraz> fendrin: that would mean making the editor generate event code too
20120723 22:36:35< vultraz> fendrin: is your ultimate goal to make the editor the scenario creator people have been searching years for? :P
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20120723 22:37:17< shadowm> fendrin: And why are facings a PITA?
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20120723 22:39:08< shadowm> It's always possible to write a quick macro to change a unit's facing (although {MODIFY_UNIT id=foobar facing nw} is enough in most cases).
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20120723 22:56:56< fendrin> shadowm: PITA?
20120723 22:58:20< fendrin> vultraz: No, I do not want to provide support for events. Thus no scenario creator ;-P
20120723 22:58:35< vultraz> aww
20120723 22:58:59< Espreon> fendrin: PITA = "pain in the ass"
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20120723 23:14:25< fendrin> shadowm: You say it. I need to write a macro for each unit.
20120723 23:14:59< shadowm> ... No.
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20120723 23:16:52< shadowm> http://pastebin.com/7ir5asXv
20120723 23:17:26< CIA-87> fendrin * r54844 /trunk/src/editor/action/mouse/mouse_action_unit.cpp: Fix the assertion when trying to drag and drop an empty hex with the unit tool.
20120723 23:18:16< fendrin> shadowm: Yes, thanks. I had a rough idea how to do such stuff. Maybe our feelings about pain are just different.
20120723 23:18:36< shadowm> That's probably why I asked why you feel it's a PITA.
20120723 23:18:57< shadowm> It's not any worse than writing [move_unit] actions.
20120723 23:19:18< fendrin> Yeah, I hate those [move_unit] actions as well.
20120723 23:19:33< fendrin> That is why I seek for a editor interface to those pains as well.
20120723 23:19:56< shadowm> The kind of solution that suits the lazy, not the creative, unless you integrate a code editor as well.
20120723 23:20:42< fendrin> Imagine a path.
20120723 23:20:48< shadowm> Yes, I know what you mean.
20120723 23:20:52< fendrin> A path is just a list of locations.
20120723 23:20:53< shadowm> [move_unit] was just an example.
20120723 23:21:24< fendrin> The editor could provide a "path tool" working similar to the whiteboard.
20120723 23:21:34< fendrin> Those paths are saved inside the unit.
20120723 23:21:49< shadowm> Yeah right, that works when the unit exists in the first place.
20120723 23:21:54< fendrin> The coder can use them. For cutscenes, or patrol paths. or whatever.
20120723 23:22:56< shadowm> Interestingly, you said "I do not want to provide support for events" above, yet you want to implement support for coding things that can only be used in events.
20120723 23:23:18< fendrin> Well, the whole [area] tag is only usable from inside events.
20120723 23:23:38< fendrin> It is completely obsolete without any handcoded stuff.
20120723 23:23:58< shadowm> "Obsolete" is something that no longer has any use.
20120723 23:24:04< shadowm> That can't be the case because [area] hasn't been implemented yet.
20120723 23:24:24< fendrin> Right, it was the wrong word.
20120723 23:24:30< fendrin> Useless
20120723 23:25:27< shadowm> I personally think it should be feasible to make certain scenario-level descriptors support SLFs.
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20120723 23:26:21< shadowm> If it isn't currently feasible, it would be convenient to look into making it so.
20120723 23:26:35< fendrin> shadowm: Please tell me more. What are scenario-level descriptors?
20120723 23:26:39< shadowm> Ugh.
20120723 23:26:50< shadowm> item, sound_source, time_area
20120723 23:26:57< fendrin> okay
20120723 23:27:05< shadowm> Nodes that describe things associated to a location or set of locations.
20120723 23:27:18< shadowm> Those three in particular have equivalent event commands that do support SLFs.
20120723 23:28:09< fendrin> Would be cool.
20120723 23:28:30< shadowm> side.village or wherever its new-map-format equivalent is right now too.
20120723 23:28:41< shadowm> *whatever
20120723 23:28:41< fendrin> side.village?
20120723 23:28:48< shadowm> Yes.
20120723 23:29:35< fendrin> side.village is not related to map format in any way. That should have stayed the same since ages.
20120723 23:30:00< fendrin> At least I hope so because I rely on side.village behaving like ever when implementing the editor feature.
20120723 23:30:08< shadowm> I thought it would have a new-map-format equivalent now since there's a "village ownership" tool in the editor.
20120723 23:30:35< shadowm> Ah let me guess, sides are noew part of the map format...?
20120723 23:30:44< fendrin> right
20120723 23:31:00< fendrin> you can save sides inside the map file. But there is no need to do so.
20120723 23:31:45< shadowm> I wonder what would happen if both the map and the scenario defined a side.
20120723 23:31:52< fendrin> sides.unit is serving for the unit tool.
20120723 23:32:51< fendrin> Yes, that is a very interesting question, I will investigate it.
20120723 23:33:23< shadowm> The logical step would be to choose one of the conflicting definitions and ignore the other, and issue a loud warning about it for the scenario author.
20120723 23:34:06< fendrin> sides need a number and having a side with the same number already leads to an error iirc.
20120723 23:36:38< fendrin> shadowm: 20120723 23:36:18 error general: Error while reading the WML: Invalid side number.
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--- Log closed Tue Jul 24 00:00:49 2012