--- Log opened Thu Aug 16 00:00:57 2012
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20120816 00:41:21< mattsc> Nephro: Thanks.  I will look at this asap (not today any more though).
20120816 00:47:44< mattsc> SeattleDad: not sure if Crab_ has been talking to you, but I strongly suspect that your problem with having two Lua AI's play against each other comes from using global ai tables for both sides.
20120816 00:49:10< mattsc> I used to do that and had those problems.  Since I switched to local ai tables, I can have as many Lua AI's play against each other as I want.  Have a look at a recent version of AI Demos on how to do that.
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20120816 01:49:51-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.10.4 planned for 24th August | 186 bugs, 338 feature requests, 18 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20120816 02:42:25< CIA-88> jamit * r55002 /trunk/src/ (game_display.cpp game_display.hpp): Consolidate the fake_unit assignment implementations.
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20120816 03:55:22< CIA-88> jamit * r55003 /trunk/src/actions.cpp: Reorder an if-{if}-else to if-else-if.
20120816 04:00:25< CIA-88> jamit * r55004 /trunk/src/actions.cpp: 
20120816 04:00:26< CIA-88> Missing a check before logging a message.
20120816 04:00:26< CIA-88> (No change in functionality, just when a message is logged.)
20120816 04:00:26< CIA-88> (Compare this to the preceding if-else-if.)
20120816 04:02:00< jamit> crab_: Whatever happened to [unit]placement=map_overwrite ? It looks fairly easy to implement. Did it just get lost by the wayside?
20120816 04:06:04< jamit> Ack. For r55004, I meant no change in gameplay functionality. (Changing what gets logged is a change to functionality, albeit a small one.)
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20120816 08:51:33< ancestral> Espreon: http://r.wesnoth.org/p535379
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20120816 16:50:20< fendrin_> hello
20120816 16:50:30< Espreon> fendrin_: Hello.
20120816 16:50:51< fendrin_> Ivanovic: are you answering to my mail?
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20120816 17:29:20< SeattleDad> Hi crab_
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20120816 18:23:24< mattsc> Hi SeattleDad.  Have you solved your 2 Lua AIs vs. each other problem yet?
20120816 18:35:14< Ivanovic> hi fendrin_
20120816 18:35:28< Ivanovic> fendrin_: uhm, i don't see an area where a reply is required
20120816 18:41:53< SeattleDad> Hi mattsc.  No, but I reported it at https://gna.org/bugs/?20046 and crab_ said he's working on it
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20120816 18:42:20< mattsc> Nephro: umm, wesnoth.debug_ai() does not have a get_ai() field in my case.  Only a 'data' and 'components' field.  (I just rebuilt to make sure I have the latest version)
20120816 18:42:41< mattsc> Is there anything I need to do (or avoid doing) so that that shows up?
20120816 18:43:29< SeattleDad> I also reported an issue with the Lua AI new syntax at https://gna.org/bugs/?20052
20120816 18:44:23< SeattleDad> I'd like to see an optional "init" function there in addition to "eval" and "exec"
20120816 18:49:16< mattsc> SeattleDad: I saw the report on the "init" function.  Sounds like a good idea.
20120816 18:49:30< mattsc> As for the 2 Lua AI's, did you see my comments to you on that?
20120816 18:51:49< SeattleDad> No, I'm afraid I didn't
20120816 18:51:56< SeattleDad> Didn't see your comments
20120816 18:52:42< mattsc> 20120816 00:47:44< mattsc> SeattleDad: not sure if Crab_ has been talking to you, but I strongly suspect that your problem with having two Lua AI's play against each other comes from using global ai tables for both sides.
20120816 18:52:43< mattsc> 20120816 00:49:10< mattsc> I used to do that and had those problems.  Since I switched to local ai tables, I can have as many Lua AI's play against each other as I want.  Have a look at a recent version of AI Demos on how to do that.
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20120816 18:54:26< SeattleDad> Okay, thanks.  I'll check it out.
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20120816 18:57:35< mattsc> Hi, neph.  Comment for you ^ about 15 min ago
20120816 18:58:35< neph> mattsc, well that's weird
20120816 18:59:02< neph> mattsc,  oh, I know
20120816 18:59:24< neph> you're using a manually defined engine, with no get_ai function
20120816 18:59:41< mattsc> Ah ...
20120816 18:59:59< mattsc> Yes, since you said things would be backward compatible, I'm just using my 1.10 scripts
20120816 19:00:32< neph> the get_ai() function must be defined in order to use external ca's
20120816 19:00:41< mattsc> Ok, I'll check this out in a little while then
20120816 19:00:43< neph> that's another thing I probably forgot to mention in the docs
20120816 19:01:00< mattsc> Yeah, that would be good to mention
20120816 19:09:11< mattsc> neph: also, did you see the request by SeattleDad for an init function with the new syntax?
20120816 19:09:23< neph> no
20120816 19:09:27< neph> is it on gna?
20120816 19:09:36< mattsc> yes
20120816 19:09:50< mattsc>  https://gna.org/bugs/?20052
20120816 19:10:20< mattsc> He's online at the moment, so the two of you could discuss it directly.  :)
20120816 19:15:00< vultraz> does [store_locations] work in prestart?
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20120816 19:25:51< neph> SeattleDad, so you want wesnoth to run the init function at the point of registering the CA?
20120816 19:26:04< neph> that's easy to do actually
20120816 19:29:54< SeattleDad> neph:  Yes, that's the idea
20120816 19:30:15< neph> SeattleDad, and you have the problem with storing the .json data somewhere solved?
20120816 19:31:10< SeattleDad> I need to load the .json file on initialization.  I'm able to do this with the old Lua syntax, but don't see a good way to do it with the new
20120816 19:31:29< SeattleDad> This is all in my patch, which is at https://gna.org/patch/?3479
20120816 19:31:47< neph> SeattleDad, you are aware that you can use the old syntax still? it hasn't been deprecated
20120816 19:32:04< neph> but I like the idea
20120816 19:32:09< neph> I will implement that
20120816 19:32:45< SeattleDad> Yes, I'm using the old syntax.  Your new syntax looks cool and I'd like to move to it, but I need this functionality
20120816 19:33:43< SeattleDad> If you look at data/ai/ais/ml_ai_faction_specific.cfg in my patch, you can see what I'm doing
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20120816 19:35:31< SeattleDad> neph:   Note the other thing on my request on gna.  I need some way to pass parameters into the init routine.
20120816 19:36:08< SeattleDad> I've got no way to pass parameters from the command line into Lua
20120816 19:36:27< SeattleDad> This is a big issue in development, although not so much of an issue for the user
20120816 19:36:39< neph> argh, through the command line
20120816 19:36:45< neph> this can be fun
20120816 19:37:08< neph> you mean the launch command line or the ingame command line?
20120816 19:37:20< SeattleDad> I'm thinking about the launch command line
20120816 19:37:48< SeattleDad> In particular, I'd like to be able to pass flags in when I'm running in nogui
20120816 19:39:07< neph> SeattleDad, I'll take a closer look on that on Monday, ok? I need to finish one task for my GSoC still and polish some docs or my mentors will eat me alive
20120816 19:39:41< neph> GSoC finishes on Monday, I'll do what I can for my tasks until then, and after we'll talk about your ideas
20120816 19:40:01< neph> although, the init thingy is like 4 lines of code I could even do that this evening
20120816 19:43:24< mattsc> neph: When I am not putting an engine definition in for a side, wesnoth.debug_ai() gives me an empty table.  What am I missing?
20120816 19:45:19< neph> mattsc, are you using LuaAI for that side?
20120816 19:45:28< neph> the dummy engine is defined on first use
20120816 19:47:42< neph> i need to go now
20120816 19:47:46< neph> I'll read the logs
20120816 19:47:46< mattsc> Hmm, I see.  
20120816 19:47:54< neph> mattsc, I can fix that too
20120816 19:47:55< neph> tbh
20120816 19:47:56< mattsc> Ok, I'll test a few things and report back here.
20120816 19:47:59< neph> I'll do that :)
20120816 19:48:08< mattsc> Cool.  Thanks.
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20120816 19:49:30< mordante> servus
20120816 19:49:32< mordante> timotei, thanks for the link
20120816 19:49:39< mattsc> Ah, yes, there's get_ai()  :)
20120816 19:49:45< mattsc> neph: ^
20120816 19:56:16< SeattleDad> neph:  That sounds fine.  Thanks for looking at this.  I know you have other priorities.  
20120816 19:57:12< SeattleDad> Basically, I'm looking for the init function to be parameterized either by A) input from the command line or B) input from a .cfg file
20120816 19:58:03< SeattleDad> I think data/ai/ais/ml_ai_faction_specific_weighted_random.cfg would be a good example of what I'm trying to do.
20120816 19:58:15< SeattleDad> The above is from my patch
20120816 19:58:55< Ivanovic> hi mordante
20120816 19:58:58< SeattleDad> You'll notice that I define a function there which raises a metric to the sixth power there.  6 is something I'd like to parameterize in the .cfg
20120816 19:59:34< CIA-88> espreon * r55005 /branches/1.10/ (24 files in 23 dirs): Updated the British English translation.
20120816 20:00:59< mordante> hi Ivanovic 
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20120816 20:07:02< CIA-88> espreon * r55006 /trunk/ (24 files in 23 dirs): Updated the British English translation.
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20120816 20:32:21< mattsc> neph: Ok, so I've done some testing using a simple external CA.  For the most part, things seem to be working well.
20120816 20:33:14< mattsc> The main issue that I have found is that the eval() functions are not part of the CA tables (you can also see that in the example you put up on the wiki)
20120816 20:34:46< mattsc> Second, when I mess with units in debug mode (such as changing their MP), the movemaps don't necessarily get updated.  So, I need to build a ai.recalculate_move_maps() into my testing algorithm.  That's just fine.
20120816 20:35:23< dimitrian> Hello all, is there someone can help with debugging issue in Xcode4 ?
20120816 20:35:27< mattsc> However, that doesn't update the attack maps.  So we'll need an ai.recalculate_attacks() also.
20120816 20:37:31< mattsc> Those two things (missing eval() and need for recalc_attacks()), are the only issues I've found so far.
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20120816 20:57:42< CIA-88> jamit * r55007 /trunk/src/ (actions.cpp actions.hpp): Eliminate the need to temporarily create a vector.
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20120816 21:13:32< CIA-88> jamit * r55008 /trunk/src/actions.cpp: Update a comment.
20120816 21:15:05< jamit> General question: Would it be a good or bad idea to cancel a unit's goto instruction when it is attacked? It currently is not done, but it makes sense from my experiences playing the game.
20120816 21:16:31< anonymissimus> jamit: that could introduce lots of bugs
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20120816 21:17:21< jamit> The AI still uses gotos?
20120816 21:17:31< anonymissimus> if it is still connected to the "wml gotos" unit.goto_x unit.goto_y
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20120816 21:18:15< anonymissimus> of course, wml or lua set gotos shouldn't be canceled by anything, unless desination reached or wml/lua does it
20120816 21:20:01< Mishinih> is there anyone develop with Xcode ?
20120816 21:20:14< anonymissimus> mordante: I recall you saying something about that you need to write stuff in winword at your work; what is that, out of curiosity; why and how much of the working time is it ?
20120816 21:20:15< mordante> I'm off bye
20120816 21:20:24< anonymissimus> oh sorry, kay
20120816 21:20:32< mordante> anonymissimus, I can stay a bit longer
20120816 21:20:37< anonymissimus> :)
20120816 21:20:49< anonymissimus> well, that answer doesn't take long probably
20120816 21:21:07< mordante> depends, not sure what you mean with the question
20120816 21:21:33< jamit> anonymissimus: Hmm... I wonder if the people setting those gotos anticipate being attacked, but OK. Maybe just cancel the gotos for human-controlled units that get attacked?
20120816 21:21:47< mordante> I write documents in Word
20120816 21:24:26< mordante> anonymissimus, ^
20120816 21:25:06< anonymissimus> mordante: well, I mean, if I'm a developer then I am since I want to code, not since I want to write, that is
20120816 21:25:29< anonymissimus> so if it's just code documentation or so then that should be fine
20120816 21:26:40< anonymissimus> jamit: I have a usecase in my campaign and I certainly don't want it to be canceled
20120816 21:27:12< anonymissimus> jamit: it is basically as if the AI would move Konrad and Delfador in HttT scenario 1
20120816 21:27:47< mordante> anonymissimus, IMO writing documentation like specifications, design documentation are part of the job
20120816 21:28:26< mordante> writing user manuals is another discussion, but I also consider that a part of the job, when in a small company
20120816 21:29:58< mordante> and I sometimes use Word for that job, although I prefer LaTeX
20120816 21:31:08< jamit> anonymissimus: That is for AI-controlled sides?
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20120816 21:32:36< anonymissimus> jamit: yes
20120816 21:32:45< anonymissimus> mordante: hmm okay
20120816 21:32:50< anonymissimus> thanks
20120816 21:33:34< mordante> anonymissimus, also when working on, for example, communication protocols it is often good to have specifications before starting to code
20120816 21:33:37< jamit> So maybe just cancel gotos for human-controlled units that get attacked?
20120816 21:33:43< anonymissimus> jamit: although I don't know how it's handled now (after crab's last fix to it)
20120816 21:33:56< mordante> and with proper specifications, coding afterwards can be a really nice job
20120816 21:34:25< anonymissimus> jamit: it would certainly be better to have some wml/lua-only gotos which are never automatically canceled or touched by the engine
20120816 21:34:35< anonymissimus> and which take priority over anythign else
20120816 21:39:51< mordante> anonymissimus, do yo have more questions?
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20120816 21:40:15< anonymissimus> mordante: no
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20120816 21:40:24< mordante> ok
20120816 21:40:40< mordante> then I'm really off now
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20120816 21:40:44< anonymissimus> bye
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20120816 21:44:56< mattsc> jamit, anonymissimus: The AI has a goto CA that always gets executed first thing when goto_x,goto_y are set for a unit.  Is that what you're talking about?
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20120816 21:45:48< crab_> jamit: no, don't cancel it, I'd say.
20120816 21:45:54< jamit> mattsc: That's when the gotos are executed.
20120816 21:46:17< mattsc> Oh, there's the real expert.  I'll leave this to crab_ then...
20120816 21:47:25< mattsc> crab_: I tested Nephro's debug code and it's working well as far as I can tell so far, except for a couple missing things.
20120816 21:49:29< jamit> crab_: Never cancel or just never for the AI? It still seems to me that players would be helped if their gotos were canceled if, say, an ambusher attacked one of their units with a goto order.
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20120816 21:50:44< crab_> mattsc: great, what's missing? have you told him?
20120816 21:50:56< mattsc> crab_: a separate point about the goto CA, it's pretty dumb.  It always goes for the goal in a straight line and can get itself into a dead end.  How hard would be to change that to use a next_step/find_path combination?
20120816 21:50:58< jamit> I can see expecting an AI writer to decide whether or not to cancel a WML-goto on an attack (they can add an event handler for attacks), but a player does not have that option. And an attack often means a plan needs changing.
20120816 21:51:18< mattsc> It's easy to do that in Lua, so my guess is it shouldn't be too hard.  Or maybe there's a different reason for that?
20120816 21:51:21< crab_> jamit: well, 'don't cancel for AI' (as ai writer can make it pedantically check everything)
20120816 21:52:07< crab_> jamit: and, for humans, I don't have a strong opinion. 
20120816 21:52:18< mattsc> crab_: I told him a couple hours ago here on IRC (he was gone, but said he'd check the logs).
20120816 21:52:39< jamit> crab_: That could be read a really interesting way, if taken out of context. :)
20120816 21:52:41< mattsc> Missing pieces: eval function for CA's (in debug table) and recalculate_attacks()
20120816 21:54:51< crab_> jamit: :))
20120816 22:07:03< anonymissimus> mattsc: yes
20120816 22:07:56< anonymissimus> mattsc: actually, I lately fixed some problem in DiD a small favor with actually this problem; draken volk could get stuck
20120816 22:08:35< mattsc> So you used a Lua CA instead?
20120816 22:09:32< mattsc> anonymissimus: ^
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20120816 22:11:19< anonymissimus> mattsc: no, wml only, with find_path tag
20120816 22:12:31< mattsc> anonymissimus: yeah, I guess that's easily done.  No reason to make it more complicated.
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20120816 22:13:03< anonymissimus> my main reason was to create a mainline usage of the find_path tag IIRC
20120816 22:13:39< mattsc> I still think it would make sense for the built-in goto CA to do that automatically.  Or is there a reason why it should move in a straight line?
20120816 22:13:50< anonymissimus> 09_A_Small_Favor3.cfg line 212ff
20120816 22:14:22< anonymissimus> well, there could be code out there which expects it do to that...I better wouldn't chance
20120816 22:16:48< mattsc> Just looked at it.  Nice.  (If you ever want to do something like that in Lua, I already have a next_hop in ai_helper that you could use  :) )
20120816 22:17:29< mattsc> anonymissimus: I guess so (concerning not changing it)
20120816 22:19:53< mattsc> neph: I did some testing and left you some comments in the logs.  What I have tried all seemed to work, just a couple missing things.
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20120816 22:20:10< neph> thank you
20120816 22:20:17< neph> I must say though
20120816 22:20:40< neph> I will focus on finishing the last task first and then I'll fix the debug_ai
20120816 22:20:58< neph> I probably won't even fix it, just replace it with the proper version
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20120816 22:21:13< neph> since this one is temporary, due to my screwup
20120816 22:21:46< mattsc> neph: sure, that makes sense.  (and if you hadn't said so, I wouldn't have known anything about a screwup!)
20120816 22:22:07< mattsc> neph: the final task are the CA filters?
20120816 22:22:10< neph> :) the back-end isn't too beatiful
20120816 22:22:23< neph> mattsc, yes, at least one of them
20120816 22:22:34< mattsc> neph: that's between you and crab_, I don't care  :D
20120816 22:23:11< neph> nah, I just don't like it myself
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20120816 22:43:19< CIA-88> jamit * r55009 /trunk/src/actions.cpp: Make the code more readable with a meaningfully-named function.
20120816 22:52:58< CIA-88> jamit * r55010 /trunk/src/actions.cpp: 
20120816 22:52:58< CIA-88> Orbs are hidden during movement now/again, so keep AI gotos during movement
20120816 22:52:58< CIA-88> in case WML wants to read them mid-move.
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--- Log closed Fri Aug 17 00:00:57 2012