--- Log opened Thu Aug 23 00:00:54 2012
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20120823 07:09:08< prize> click and win check: http://codnbeat.hu
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20120823 08:25:45< Crab_> jamit: now I'm around
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20120823 10:08:03< Necrosporus> How do I generate translation file from addon?
20120823 10:08:20< Necrosporus> Or should I search for translatibles manually?
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20120823 10:31:06< Crab_> Necrosporus: there's a tool for that (wmlxgettext);
20120823 10:32:18< Necrosporus> Traceback (most recent call last):
20120823 10:32:18< Necrosporus>   File "/usr/share/wesnoth/data/tools/wmlxgettext", line 82, in <module>
20120823 10:32:18< Necrosporus>     m = re.search(r"#define VERSION\s+(.*)", open("src/wesconfig.h").read())
20120823 10:32:18< Necrosporus> IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'src/wesconfig.h'
20120823 10:34:26< Crab_> it's present when you have the C++ sources of wesnoth
20120823 10:38:29< Necrosporus> /usr/share/wesnoth/data/tools/wmlxgettext >> translations/ru/LC_MESSAGES/messages.po
20120823 10:38:32< Necrosporus> This way, right?
20120823 10:39:35< Necrosporus> I fixed that by commenting out that search and adding line «version = "1.10.3"» to the python thing
20120823 10:40:56< Crab_> no, slightly different way. 
20120823 10:41:16< shadowm> Do you really need to do this? Why not let the Wescamp people do it instead?
20120823 10:42:38< Crab_> Necrosporus: i.e. http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=415065#p415065 (if you want to do it manually)
20120823 10:42:48< Necrosporus> I'm translating my addon into russian
20120823 10:44:36< shadowm> I guess I'm supposed to infer the actual answer from that.
20120823 10:44:54< Crab_> Necrosporus: you can also upload your addon to addon server (if it can be uploaded there), wait a few days and then download the files-to-be-translated, and then translate it.
20120823 10:45:29< Crab_> Necrosporus: see http://wiki.wesnoth.org/WesCamp for that route
20120823 10:45:57< Necrosporus> I don't think it worth uploading yet, since it still have buggy ability  (it spams console with error messages) and it's just one unit
20120823 10:46:44< Necrosporus> If I get a whole campaign or at least scenario with my own units, and it would be more or less stable...
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20120823 11:59:53< Soliton> jamit: how would the proposed min/max_light keys work? (also in respect to non-standard ToDs)
20120823 12:05:06< Soliton> jamit: as to the tooltip: it seems that tooltip is for one specific unit so local effects should be taken into account IMO.
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20120823 14:20:20< jamit> Soliton: I was thinking that min/max_light would work similar to min/max_value for the illuminates ability.
20120823 14:22:06< jamit> Soliton: Assuming light is positive (flip things around if it's negative): if ambient light > max_light, then the terrain's light is the ambient light. Else if ambient light + light > max_light, then the terrain's light is max_light. Else, the terrain's light is ambient light + light.
20120823 14:22:29< jamit> For terrain, "ambient light" would be the light from the time of day.
20120823 14:23:27< jamit> So max_light would be the most the terrain could raise the lighting level to, but would not cause time-of-day light to be reduced.
20120823 14:24:23< jamit> Crab_: Still around?
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20120823 14:45:48< Soliton> jamit: the problem i see there is that max_light depends on ToD values (ambient light). if that dependency is already in the illuminates ability it's less of an issue though.
20120823 14:47:54< jamit> The standard illuminates ability will not raise the lawful bonus above 25%. If you're on the 24-hour schedule, there's a time when the lawful bonus is 5%. That 5% + illuminates = 25% lawful bonus.
20120823 14:48:14< jamit> Is that what you mean by the dependency?
20120823 14:51:00< Soliton> yeah, the dependency is that max_value is equal to the highest lawful bonus in the *standard* schedule. the value doesn't make sense if the highest bonus would be 50% or whatever.
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20120823 14:52:32< Soliton> nicer would be for example to say that illuminates does not raise the bonus higher than the max bonus, i.e. without using specific values from some schedule.
20120823 14:53:06< Soliton> same thing for illuminated terrain.
20120823 14:54:11< jamit> What if you want the illumination to be less than full daylight? Maybe a terrain is lit by some glowing fungus or something like that. Maybe that terrain would have light=10 and max_light=15, while full sunlight is standard (25).
20120823 14:54:24< Crab_> jamit: around
20120823 14:54:47< jamit> At least, that's the sort of thing I see as being possible from the ability's keys.
20120823 14:55:48< jamit> Crab_: I was looking at [unit]placement=map_overwrite, and it looks rather easy to implement. So I was just wondering if there was a reason for it not being done (other than "I didn't get around to it").
20120823 14:56:26< jamit> Crab_: If there's no reason to put it off, I could get it in before 1.11.0 gets tagged.
20120823 14:58:16< Crab_> there was a talk on IRC some time ago, where there were complains about placement=, and I was asked to deprecate placement= and use a number of yes/no keys instead.
20120823 14:58:37< Crab_> the deprecation/change was rather easy to implement
20120823 14:59:36< jamit> Something like placement=map/leader/recall  and  passable=yes/no  and  overwrite=yes/no?
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20120823 15:00:30< Crab_> jamit: yes, something like passable=yes/no and overwrite=yes/no and recall=yes/no
20120823 15:00:48< Crab_> there were some examples pastebinned somewhen , as well :)
20120823 15:01:34< jamit> Any decisions made? Or just discussions of "it should be like..."?
20120823 15:02:03< jamit> I looked at this because I saw a few bugs dependent on this.
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20120823 15:03:51< Crab_> there was a consensus to replace placement= with that set of yes/no attributes
20120823 15:03:59< Crab_> there is some loss of functionality, but minimal
20120823 15:04:09< Crab_> the current default behavior is to be preserved
20120823 15:05:35< jamit> That set is missing the "leader" option.
20120823 15:05:50< Crab_> the attributes were to be named to be something like "allow_overwrite, allow_recall, allow_impassable"... 
20120823 15:06:03< Crab_> without the logs, I don't remember how it was handled
20120823 15:06:27< Crab_> when there's no x=,y=, units can be realistically placed next to leader or to recall list
20120823 15:07:16< jamit> Right. No x,y given and not allowed on the recall list could imply placement=leader.
20120823 15:08:47< Crab_> well, it's actually better to use allow_overwrite, near_leader, allow_impassable,    then
20120823 15:09:05< Crab_> since the no/no/no would match current default behavior, then
20120823 15:09:21< Crab_> and it'll be easy to add something like "near_leader=yes"
20120823 15:10:42< jamit> Current default is to allow impassable. So that option should be "check_passable" instead?
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20120823 15:11:26< jamit> (Or whatever key like that is used elsewhere.)
20120823 15:11:57< Crab_> I'd vote for changing the default for 1.11 to disallow impassable
20120823 15:12:14< Crab_> since more often than not, placement into a impassable hex is an unintended bug
20120823 15:12:22< jamit> Makes sense.
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20120823 15:13:01< Crab_> i.e. if we have hexes like 1234 , and 1 is impassable, we want to place in 2, but there's a unit in 2 already.
20120823 15:13:15< Crab_> then, a unit can be placed in 1 due to 'allow_overwrite=no' default
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20120823 15:13:29< Crab_> but 1 is impassable ..
20120823 15:16:08< fendrin> hello
20120823 15:16:27< Crab_> hi, fendrin
20120823 15:16:46< fendrin> Crab_: who is the whiteboard student?
20120823 15:17:19< Crab_> Ejls
20120823 15:17:37< fendrin> Crab_: thanks
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20120823 15:18:56< fendrin> ejls: Currently the [select_unit] tag causes Wesnoth to abort because of a failing assertion in the whiteboard code, would you have a look at it please? Best before the release on Saturday...
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20120823 15:20:01< Soliton> jamit: not sure what your example shows. IMO light=10 + my suggested restriction would mean 10% is added and if it'd go over the max bonus it'd be capped there. (i.e. min(calculated bonus, max bonus))
20120823 15:21:41< Soliton> jamit: one issue is that in underground scenarios the max bonus is probably not +25% currently, so illumination would not work as intended there...
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20120823 15:29:39< jamit> Soliton: Yes, that is one difficulty. If the maximum is not specified in the terrain definition, how would it be defined? It might be simplest to define core terrain with the assumption that full daylight is 25%, and just require EMC authors to redefine the terrain if they want a different percentage for full daylight.
20120823 15:30:27< jamit> *UMC, not EMC
20120823 15:31:49< jamit> For some idea of the scope of this: there are 5 terrain definitions in core with light= defined. (lit overlay, lit mushroom overlay, lava, lava chasm, and volcano)
20120823 15:35:37< jamit> Another option would be to define max_light = light, but that takes away some flexibility, and still does not address the maximum light from ToD.
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20120823 18:08:41< Necrosporus> zookeeper, code you suggested works in opposite way (perhaps because of [no]) from what's expected, though if I remove "no" it works somehow glitchy and spams console with errors
20120823 18:09:02< zookeeper> yep, so you said
20120823 18:09:25< Necrosporus> 20120824 01:09:14 error engine: failed to auto-store $this_unit at (17,16)
20120823 18:09:26< Necrosporus> 20120824 01:09:14 warning engine: variable_info: retrieving member of non-existent WML container, this_unit.max_moves
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20120823 18:31:15< Soliton> jamit: IMO ideally the ToD schedule should specify a maximum for illumination abilities/terrain etc. that's where the setting logically belongs. but it might be a lot of work to change things around to work that way for little gain, so assuming standard ToDs is fine really.
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20120823 19:51:25< Ivanovic> AI0867, Akihara, bloodycoin, ejls, elias, Espreon, esr, fendrin, happygrue, loonycyborg, Rhonda, shadowm, Soliton, Upthorn, zookeeper, crab_, mordante, everyone else who cares: i still plan to tag 1.10.4 tomorrow (late in europe) and 1.11.0 on saturday (early!)
20120823 19:51:44< Ivanovic> if there are any blockers on your side for such a release, please make sure to tell me ASAP!
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20120823 20:12:28< elias> does CIA-107 not work?
20120823 20:20:31< fendrin> Ivanovic: I am still going to commit once before that, I see no blockers.
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20120823 20:27:47< timotei> Hmm, I am the only one getting emails with Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender, from Mailer-Daemon@gna.org ?
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20120823 20:28:09< timotei> They say something like they could send an email to cia [at] cia.navi.cx
20120823 20:28:14< Ivanovic> elias: yes, CIA is borked
20120823 20:28:21< timotei> OK, Thanks
20120823 20:28:44< Ivanovic> timotei: this was also meant for elias
20120823 20:28:46< Ivanovic> ;)
20120823 20:28:49< timotei> Ah
20120823 20:28:50< timotei> :)
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20120823 20:30:21< elias> yeah, seems CIA wants to use XMLRPC instead of email now... guess gna.org didn't change that yet
20120823 20:32:49< Ivanovic> probably
20120823 20:36:09< vultraz> how come all the CIAs still don;t work?
20120823 20:36:12< mordante> fendrin, it would be best to commit your changes ASAP since it might break things or not revert cleanly
20120823 20:38:58< mordante> Ivanovic, no blockers for me regarding 1.11.0
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20120823 20:40:30< Necrosporus> How to test bigger portrait? Is there a command to make unit say something?
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20120823 21:21:05< mordante> I'm off bye
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20120823 21:21:31< anonymissimus> jamit: regarding placement= etc, pls try to use the names several other unit-placing tags already do
20120823 21:22:24< anonymissimus> such as find_vacant and check_passability
20120823 21:25:07< anonymissimus> Ivanovic: the current state of the map stuff definitely is a blocker for me, as the editor would force people to write map files in a format they would manually need to revert later, just to make it clear
20120823 21:32:26< timotei> lipkab: hi :D
20120823 21:32:29< timotei> Did you try an update?
20120823 21:33:33< lipkab> timotei: Not yet.
20120823 21:33:42< lipkab> But I can do now.
20120823 21:33:42< timotei> OK, no problem. Just asking.
20120823 21:39:10< lipkab> timotei: Hmmm, it's still not perfect.
20120823 21:39:47< lipkab> In an #ifdef #else #endif sequence, it won't highlight #endif.
20120823 21:40:04< lipkab> ...and it even shows an error on it!
20120823 21:41:55< timotei> Wow?
20120823 21:42:10< timotei> It should work. I've tested yesterday
20120823 21:42:16< timotei> Do you have the code you are using?
20120823 21:42:23< Ivanovic> fendrin: you saw what anonymissimus wrote?
20120823 21:42:23< timotei> (pastebin it maybe?)
20120823 21:44:19< lipkab> timotei: Oops, sorry, it indeed works. I just didn't write anything between the directives the first time, that caused the problem.
20120823 21:44:27< timotei> :D
20120823 21:44:30< timotei> Good.
20120823 21:44:54< timotei> Well, between #ifdef #else, it can be no code, but between #else and #endif no
20120823 21:45:21< lipkab> Yeah, that makes sense.
20120823 21:47:26< lipkab> timotei: Although I think a warning would be more appropriate; an error implies that the empty else clause is syntactically incorrect which isn't the case (afaik).
20120823 21:48:08< lipkab> But that's a really minor issue.
20120823 21:50:39< fendrin> Ivanovic: Yes, I think my email made all that clear. It seems anonymissimus missed it.
20120823 21:52:24< anonymissimus> fendrin: no, I didn't
20120823 21:53:24< anonymissimus> fendrin: I just somehow don't trust you on this thing
20120823 21:53:49< anonymissimus> fendrin: and others don't do as well, as can be seen by shadowm 's and mordante's comments
20120823 21:54:27< fendrin> Yes, the gang of usual suspects. That is normal business.
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20120823 22:26:57< shadowm> fendrin: That wouldn't happen if you provided us with reasons to trust you. So far it's been quite the contrary, with this nearly last minute decision to revert things you had been previously advertising as final and shipping in 1.11.0.
20120823 22:27:53< jamit> anonymissimus: Well, using the same keys would be nice, but then the defaults would not all be "no", which I think is a goal.
20120823 22:28:22< jamit> anonymissimus: So... I guess I can see why it takes so long to get something like this done. :)
20120823 22:28:36< shadowm> Necrosporus: [message] is a good command. You can place it anywhere if necessary, and if the unit isn't even available you can still provide 'narrator' as the speaker, along with a custom value for image (the image= attribute).
20120823 22:30:03< Necrosporus> shadowm, is only awailable in scenario code?
20120823 22:30:19< Necrosporus> I mean I want to do that during game in debug mode
20120823 22:31:14< jamit> anonymissimus: What I might do is implement "map_overwrite" after 1.11.0 is tagged as sort of a "provisional" fix for bug #19427/#19748. (TRoW Temple of the Deep currently uses "map_overwrite".) If people can agree on what the new keys are, they can go in and maybe "map_overwrite" will never see a stable release.
20120823 22:31:24< shadowm> I think there's a hidden Lua mini-console option, which would presumably allow to invoke a WML action through the Lua call path, but I haven't really seen it myself.
20120823 22:31:31< shadowm> Ugh, my connection is being useless as usual.
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20120823 22:44:12< anonymissimus> jamit: that we generally don't do or certainly try to avoid, creating a key which is not definitely meant to stay in the first place
20120823 22:45:13< anonymissimus> jamit: as far as I'm concerned, there's never been a rule that defaults for keys should be "no"
20120823 22:45:36< anonymissimus> the defaults should be the most suitable/frequent value
20120823 22:46:02< anonymissimus> or so that it's backwards compatible in case the tag isn't new
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20120823 22:46:37< anonymissimus> as in this case
20120823 22:48:06< jamit> I'm just seeing two people with different views on what the keys should be named, and map_overwrite sitting unimplemented for over 2.5 years (Earliest reference I know of is January 2010: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=28616#p405473 )
20120823 22:49:27< jamit> If someone was willing to implement this rather easy value for a key (not actually a key itself), even though it is not meant to stay, there would have been at least one less bug in 1.10.
20120823 22:50:03< shadowm> I think that was mistakingly added to the wiki as if it were implemented at some point.
20120823 22:50:21< shadowm> And it still is on that page, in fact: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SingleUnitWML
20120823 22:50:34< anonymissimus> I don't want to add a key which isn't meant to stay since a better fix is needed anyway
20120823 22:50:39< jamit> Avoiding creating a key that won't last is usually a good practice, but sometimes something is better than nothing.
20120823 22:50:41< anonymissimus> or value
20120823 22:50:49< anonymissimus> just to remove a bug
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20120823 22:52:02< anonymissimus> I added that note about that it currently doesn't work at some spot IIRC though
20120823 22:52:03< jamit> That is one reason I would do it after 1.11.0 though. If people can give me (or Crab_) a definite "this is what the new keys should be called", then "map_overwrite" might not even see a development release.
20120823 22:52:35< jamit> Call it motivation for reaching a consensus on the details? :)
20120823 22:54:22< jamit> Eh, if it is too objectionable, I won't do it. But I do think that in this case, something temporary is better than nothing.
20120823 22:56:16< jamit> And right, it being listed in the wiki is another reason it looks to me that implementing it temporarily is not such a bad thing.
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20120823 22:58:59< anonymissimus> I found the IRC discussions crab mentioned, it was on http://www.wesnoth.org/irclogs/2012/01/%23wesnoth-dev.2012-01-19.log
20120823 22:59:17< jamit> Cool. I'll take a look.
20120823 22:59:37< anonymissimus> people sometimes write the things they want into the wiki to "support" them getting coded
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20120823 23:30:14< shadowm> src/tests/test_whiteboard_side_actions.cpp:54:67: error: cannot allocate an object of abstract type ‘dummy_action’
20120823 23:30:36< shadowm> Who should I poke about this? 
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--- Log closed Fri Aug 24 00:00:54 2012