--- Log opened Tue Aug 28 00:00:13 2012
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20120828 00:07:50< CIA-107> shadowmaster * r55176 /trunk/ (players_changelog changelog): Correct recent changelog entries' formatting
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20120828 00:44:57< shadowm> shadowm@reicore:~/src/wesnoth$ du -h build/debug/libwesnoth_extras.a
20120828 00:44:57< shadowm> 883M    build/debug/libwesnoth_extras.a
20120828 00:45:06< shadowm> I missed debug builds so much.
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20120828 01:02:50< Necrosporus> oh... gigabyte lib...
20120828 01:24:10< shadowm> Argh, I think I need a new computer.
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20120828 01:29:16< shadowm> 5 minutes to relink a build after recompiling only one file is excessive.
20120828 01:34:39< CIA-107> shadowmaster * r55177 /trunk/ (players_changelog changelog src/dialogs.cpp): 
20120828 01:34:39< CIA-107> gui1: Restore saved games info count test, preventing a segmentation fault when deleting all saved games in the Load Game dialog
20120828 01:34:39< CIA-107> This is a trunk-specific regression. The test is intact in 1.10.
20120828 01:40:06< AI0867> shadowm: note that regarding #20011, the change has already been made...
20120828 01:40:07< Necrosporus> shadowm, how many cores does your processor have? If only one, you really need to
20120828 01:40:33< AI0867> so it is now 'wrong', depending on what your definition of wrong is
20120828 01:40:58< shadowm> wesbot: bug 20011
20120828 01:40:58< wesbot> Bug #20011  Assigned to: Dan Gerhards <beetlenaut>  Status: Fixed  Priority: 5 - Normal
20120828 01:41:01< wesbot> Summary: Stun (merman brawlers) not working while retaliating
20120828 01:41:04< wesbot> Original submission: Noticed it while playing the Dead Water campaign. Sometim
20120828 01:41:07< wesbot> es, have no idea exactly how it's decided, when a brawler is attacked he'll reta
20120828 01:41:10< wesbot> URL: https://gna.org/bugs/?20011
20120828 01:41:53< shadowm> Necrosporus: Two, but I know what the actual deficiencies are. 
20120828 01:42:10< shadowm> AI0867: The change on UtBS?
20120828 01:42:31< shadowm> Or the change on DW, which Gambit said had been approved by beetlenaut himself and is therefore not wrong?
20120828 01:49:51-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 184 bugs, 340 feature requests, 18 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20120828 01:58:29< shadowm> Ivanovic: I just finished closing all bugs marked as Fixed, Upstream Problem, Won't Fix, Invalid, Duplicate before the release of 1.10.4 and 1.11.0 and most of the Need Info and Ready for Test (prom. to Fixed) bugs too,.
20120828 01:59:50< shadowm> The exceptions are  #19856 and #10978 (too recent RFT and unpolished feature RFT respectively) and #19751 (too recent WFM).
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20120828 02:04:32< CIA-107> shadowmaster * r55178 /trunk/src/hotkeys.cpp: Replace "Add new Side" hotkey label with "Add New Side"; hotkeys operate as menu entries and should use title case as such
20120828 02:04:42< shadowm> I also think someone broke the difficulty field in saved game summaries in 1.11.0, I'll see if I can determine the cause and fix or file a bug report later.
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20120828 02:58:31< AI0867> shadowm: eh, the "stun" stuff
20120828 02:58:40< AI0867> if they're different, that's another problem in itself
20120828 03:02:50< shadowm> AI0867: Yes, which stun?
20120828 03:19:05< AI0867> iirc, utbs stun is attack-only, DW stun is (now) both attack and defend
20120828 03:19:17< AI0867> thanks to that bug
20120828 03:19:51< shadowm> Hence I said a separate FR should be filed for UtBS if desired.
20120828 03:20:41< shadowm> The bug only concerns the DW definition of the special, which was already different in a few ways (in particular, the description).
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20120828 07:36:10< Ivanovic> shadowm: thanks for closing the bug reports
20120828 07:36:13< Ivanovic> completely forgot about those
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20120828 10:36:25< fendrin_> AI0867: stun in utbs?
20120828 10:39:23< shadowm> !log 55053
20120828 10:39:23< shikadibot> shadowm: Revision 55053 (ayne) on Mon Aug 20 17:22:47 2012:
20120828 10:39:24< shikadibot> shadowm: Moved difficulty, current and next scenario info to new carryover_info and game_data
20120828 10:39:27< shikadibot> shadowm: Web interface URL: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth?view=rev&rev=55053
20120828 10:39:48< shadowm> I'm guessing this is what broke difficulty in Load Game.
20120828 10:42:02< shadowm> Hm, okay, it looks like the breakage goes beyond UI aspects.
20120828 10:42:27< shadowm> This is rather serious.
20120828 10:42:51< shadowm> Upon reloading a save of AToTB's first scenario and switching to scenario 3, I get unlimited turns and enemies with zero gold.
20120828 10:43:12< shadowm> Probably because none of the relevant attributes are set since all of them depend on EASY, NORMAL, or HARD being defined.
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20120828 10:45:52< shadowm> H, doesn't seem to be the case on HttT.
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20120828 10:46:34< shadowm> IIRC when a saved game's difficulty is missing the game assumes NORMAL?
20120828 10:46:57< shadowm> And AToTB is designed with only EASY and HARD in consideration.
20120828 10:48:06< shadowm> Yeah, effectively, if I start HttT on HARD and get to scenario 2 and then reload the save, I get the turn limit for EASY/NORMAL instead of the turn limit for HARD.
20120828 10:53:01< shadowm> Ivanovic: The bug is indeed caused by Ayne's commit and I'm writing a report. Who should I assign it to?
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20120828 11:04:40< shadowm> https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?20106
20120828 11:07:48< shadowm> ... We released with open blockers.
20120828 11:08:47< shadowm> Well, looks like Gna.org died while I was attempting to read one of them.
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20120828 13:49:51-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 186 bugs, 340 feature requests, 18 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20120828 14:46:16< fendrin_> I am currently working on multiple movetypes for a unit. 
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20120828 14:48:13< fendrin_> hi lipkab
20120828 14:48:23< lipkab> hi fendrin_
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20120828 15:30:35< fendrin_> es
20120828 15:31:06< fendrin_> esr, Espreon: I am getting a commit ready soon, but I need some help with the vocabulary.
20120828 15:31:23< esr> ?
20120828 15:31:26< fendrin_> I need user visible names for our movementtypes.
20120828 15:31:35< esr> OK
20120828 15:31:39< fendrin_> The id of the type is "woodlandfloat"
20120828 15:32:07< fendrin_> The movetype used by the Elvish Sylph for example.
20120828 15:36:34< fendrin_> I do not know if it is a good idea to display: "Movetype: Woodlandfloat"
20120828 15:36:57< fendrin_> Most of them sound rather if they were no valid English words to me.
20120828 15:37:07< fendrin_> esr: ^
20120828 15:37:57< esr> What ios special about this modement type?
20120828 15:38:12< esr> s/modement/movement/
20120828 15:39:09< fendrin_> There is nothing special with it. I just wanted to name an example.
20120828 15:39:45< fendrin_> Needed are names for all the types.
20120828 15:42:14< Soliton> what are you trying to do?
20120828 15:42:48< fendrin_> Give the movetypes names and display them to the player.
20120828 15:43:10< fendrin_> That was suggested in the forum and it does not work that easy because the movetype can be modified for each unit.
20120828 15:43:41< fendrin_> But that can be handled with renaming a derived movetype.
20120828 15:44:44< fendrin_> For example would the normal woodland movetype be named "Woodland Light" while the one that is modified by the {LESS_NIMBLE_ELF} macro could be named "Woodland Heavy".
20120828 15:44:51< esr> Before I can come up with a valid word or phrae, I need to understand what it's trying to describe.
20120828 15:45:00< Alarantalara> And the one that is modified by the feral trait?
20120828 15:46:18< Soliton> what's the benefit of naming movetypes?
20120828 15:46:50< fendrin_> esr: It is a table that maps terrain to movespeed and a second one that maps terrain to defense values. http://wiki.wesnoth.org/UnitsWML#.5Bmovetype.5D
20120828 15:48:01< fendrin_> esr: The contents of that tables are displayed in the unit help description. The movetype name would be displayed above. I can make you a screenshot.
20120828 15:48:57< esr> Well...sounds like the phrase for Woodlandfloat ought to be something like "Woodland Flyer".
20120828 15:49:06< fendrin_> Soliton: Well, you can easily get how a unit behaves if you know the movetype already, and you can distinguish between different movetypes if the one got changed.
20120828 15:49:22< fendrin_> esr: Yes, that sounds more like English.
--- Log opened Tue Aug 28 16:00:56 2012
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20120828 16:01:04-!- Topic for #wesnoth-dev: 186 bugs, 340 feature requests, 18 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20120828 16:01:04-!- Topic set by wesbot [~wesbot@wesnoth/bot/wesbot] [Tue Aug 28 13:49:51 2012]
20120828 16:01:04[Users #wesnoth-dev]
20120828 16:01:04[ AI0867         ] [ Espreon  ] [ knotwork   ] [ stikonas      ] 
20120828 16:01:04[ Akihara        ] [ esr      ] [ lipkab     ] [ Tigge         ] 
20120828 16:01:04[ Alarantalara   ] [ fendrin_ ] [ lobby      ] [ ToBeFree      ] 
20120828 16:01:04[ apoi           ] [ Gallaecio] [ loonybot   ] [ Upthorn       ] 
20120828 16:01:04[ balrog         ] [ HAL_9001 ] [ loonycyborg] [ vultraz       ] 
20120828 16:01:04[ ChrisOelmueller] [ happygrue] [ LordNasty  ] [ vultraz_laptop] 
20120828 16:01:04[ CIA-107        ] [ horon    ] [ melinath   ] [ wesbot        ] 
20120828 16:01:04[ Crendgrim      ] [ Ingmar   ] [ mjs-de     ] [ yann          ] 
20120828 16:01:04[ crimson_penguin] [ isaac    ] [ Necrosporus] [ zookeeper     ] 
20120828 16:01:04[ csarmi         ] [ Ivanovic ] [ Rhonda     ] [ {V}           ] 
20120828 16:01:04[ ejls           ] [ iwaim_   ] [ SeattleDad ] 
20120828 16:01:04[ elias          ] [ janebot  ] [ shadowm    ] 
20120828 16:01:04[ enchilado      ] [ Jetrel   ] [ shikadibot ] 
20120828 16:01:04-!- Irssi: #wesnoth-dev: Total of 49 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 49 normal]
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20120828 16:01:31-!- Channel #wesnoth-dev created Tue Jan 27 06:28:41 2009
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20120828 16:05:10< zookeeper> fendrin_, wth are you doing
20120828 16:05:23< fendrin_> naming movetypes
20120828 16:05:24 * zookeeper reads
20120828 16:06:03< AI0867> fendrin_: one of kaleh's AMLAs
20120828 16:06:26< zookeeper> yeah please don't do that
20120828 16:06:50< fendrin_> why not?
20120828 16:07:00< zookeeper> because of the issues that were already explained
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20120828 16:08:10< Alarantalara> AI0867: The effects of Kaleh's AMLA's don't appear in help, so that won't be affected.
20120828 16:08:39< fendrin_> zookeeper: Issues that were explained?
20120828 16:09:21< Soliton> afaiac i've never heard anyone complain about how he can't figure out how units move. there are plenty of interface options that allow you to explore how units will move and defend.
20120828 16:09:35< zookeeper> fendrin_, what alarantalara said
20120828 16:10:39< AI0867> Alarantalara: they do appear in the sidebar
20120828 16:10:50< Soliton> giving the player one more virtual stat about a unit that in many cases will just tell them that there is some modification he has to know about is unlikely to help anyone.
20120828 16:11:33< zookeeper> want to display info about movement to the player? put the movetype info in a tooltip for the MP display, if it doesn't have one already
20120828 16:12:10< Alarantalara> AI0867: True, but the proposal as described so far didn't mention displaying the movement_type there.
20120828 16:12:21< zookeeper> just don't display the player a stat which has never been intended to be displayed to the player and which have not been assigned with such in mind
20120828 16:13:19< fendrin_> There are 36 out of how many units that modify the movetype?
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20120828 16:13:42< fendrin_> Still the information modified something is quite useful.
20120828 16:14:19< fendrin_> In most of the cases you can find a good name for the modified movetype. Like the less nimble elf for example.
20120828 16:14:23< Alarantalara> About 20% of units are modified
20120828 16:14:48< Alarantalara> And where would you store the modified name?
20120828 16:17:12< fendrin_> [movetype] name=heavy_woodland user_name= _ "Heavy Woodland Walker Whatever" parent=woodland {LESS_NIMBLE_ELF} [/movetype]
20120828 16:18:02< Alarantalara> Ah, so you plan on changing the definition of {LESS_NIMBLE_ELF} as well.
20120828 16:18:11< fendrin_> nope
20120828 16:18:40< fendrin_> I plan no syntax changes. Old code will work on like ever.
20120828 16:18:53< AI0867> Alarantalara: I didn't mention that either, the weapon special is shown there (including description)
20120828 16:19:50< Alarantalara> Less nimble elf is currently a unit modification, not a movement_type modification. It does not actually require that the movement be woodland.
20120828 16:20:41< fendrin_> Alarantalara: The code that I gave you is already working in my prototype. It is the original LESS_NIMBLE_ELF macro working like expected.
20120828 16:21:36< fendrin_> Alarantalara: And you are wrong, LESS_NIMBLE_ELF is a movetype modification.
20120828 16:21:42< Soliton> so you'll make up new movetypes for all the variations?
20120828 16:22:40< fendrin_> Soliton: Yes, for all where it is doable. Some may have to live wiht just "Modified <parent>"
20120828 16:22:41< zookeeper> i have an idea similar to this which is like 5 years old and it's tons better
20120828 16:22:56< fendrin_> zookeeper: Please tell.
20120828 16:23:21< Soliton> where is the discussion about this feature anyway?
20120828 16:25:07< fendrin_> Soliton: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=36810 and now and here at irc.
20120828 16:25:18< Soliton> btw, what Alarantalara obviously meant was that the modification is in the unit type not the movetype.
20120828 16:25:32< Soliton> hence why you had to make up a new movetype.
20120828 16:26:05< zookeeper> fendrin_, can't find it. either it's a forum post somewhere or i've otherwise lost it.
20120828 16:26:28< fendrin_> zookeeper: That is a pitty. Don't you remember the basics?
20120828 16:26:32< Alarantalara> Exactly. Currently LESS_NIMBLE_ELF can be applied to woodlandfloat and woodland
20120828 16:27:03< zookeeper> fendrin_, i do, but i don't feel like typing it down again because i see no point in doing so.
20120828 16:28:10< fendrin_> Alarantalara: Sure, but as I told you, I do not plan to modify the LESS_NIMBLE_ELF macro, it works well for old and my new current purposes, thus I don't get your point, sorry.
20120828 16:28:44< fendrin_> zookeeper: Well, as I am working on a similar issue right now, it could be useful for me if you do so.
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20120828 16:29:54< Alarantalara> Ah, sorry. I forgot that resistance is included in movement_type as well. That more than doubles the number of units with modifications to movement_type.
20120828 16:30:11< Alarantalara> So almost half are not defined solely by movement_type
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20120828 16:32:07< Soliton> funny that the discussion threat already outlined the issues and ends in the OP being fine with the status quo.
20120828 16:32:48< fendrin_> Sure, she was told that it is not doable, by me, with the argument that the parent gets modified too often.
20120828 16:33:41< Soliton> so where is the discussion that changed all that?
20120828 16:34:03< fendrin_> But I thought twice and came to the conclusion that displaying the parent name + extra hint what is changed or at least that it is modified is a good thing to do.
20120828 16:36:15< Soliton> where do you want to display the name?
20120828 16:37:56< zookeeper> displaying the movement values is good. naming a _movetype_ to the player is not.
20120828 16:38:20< zookeeper> as i said before, a tooltip for the MP counter would be a good way to do it, if it doesn't already have one
20120828 16:38:39< Soliton> (and IMO there are plenty ways movement values are shown to the player already.)
20120828 16:38:46< fendrin_> Soliton: Above the resistance and movement table in the unit types description.
20120828 16:39:42< zookeeper> what, in the unit description, not the side panel? well _that_ sounds even worse
20120828 16:40:42 * Soliton was thinking about the side panel as well.
20120828 16:40:57< fendrin_> zookeeper: It can have a place in the side panel as well, just the movetype name with the exact values as a tooltip to it.
20120828 16:41:05< Soliton> well, less clutter there but an even more useless location.
20120828 16:41:21< zookeeper> sure no one wants to go to unit desc to check up on stats, but having to go there just to check a vague general description of what kind of movement the unit has directly above the detailed table of its movement values would be pretty much completely useless
20120828 16:41:35< fendrin_> No.
20120828 16:41:54 * Soliton completely agrees with zookeeper.
20120828 16:42:23< fendrin_> You can see the name and the tooltip on the side panel and have the same name attached to it to the same values in the unit description.
20120828 16:43:46< Alarantalara> How would you deal with walking corpses? They have a single stat page but 10 different movement_types?
20120828 16:44:30< fendrin_> Alarantalara: The next step of the project is to implement several different movetypes per unit.
20120828 16:44:51< Alarantalara> And all of the movement types are modified twice. Once for walking corpses and once for the specific type.
20120828 16:45:15< Soliton> what in the world does that mean?
20120828 16:45:46< Alarantalara> The walking corpse has a base movement_type depending on variation.
20120828 16:45:47< Soliton> maybe you want to give a bit more general outline about that "project"?
20120828 16:46:12< Alarantalara> Ah, you weren't asking me, Soliton.
20120828 16:46:18< fendrin_> It is not more than that.
20120828 16:46:20< Soliton> Alarantalara: yeah, sorry.
20120828 16:46:25< fendrin_> Just multiple movetypes per unit.
20120828 16:46:35< Soliton> fendrin_: well, it doesn't make any sense to me so far.
20120828 16:46:53< fendrin_> Okay, I can give you a concrete example.
20120828 16:47:10< fendrin_> I work on that drake campaign, WoV Wings of Victory.
20120828 16:47:13< Soliton> maybe you mean movetype inheritance?
20120828 16:47:21< fendrin_> nope
20120828 16:47:32< fendrin_> but that is already working, isn't it?
20120828 16:47:46< fendrin_> If not I will take care about that as well.
20120828 16:47:59< fendrin_> The drakes don't behave very well in the caves.
20120828 16:48:03< Alarantalara> There isn't any inheritance right now. Just macros for automatic inclusion.
20120828 16:48:04< zookeeper> oh good heavens. you want to be able to define multiple movetypes for a unit, and a scenario can define which ones get used?
20120828 16:48:13< Soliton> well, doesn't sound like we're talking about the same thing so just go on with your example.
20120828 16:48:36 * Soliton crosses fingers that zookeeper is not right.
20120828 16:49:03< Alarantalara> Soliton: zookeeper's right. I remember this discussion earlier.
20120828 16:49:04< fendrin_> zookeeper: Yes, but not the scenario, also a wml action thing. [modify_unit] active_movetype?
20120828 16:49:10 * zookeeper huddles up beside soliton and wails
20120828 16:49:11< fendrin_> s/?/=
20120828 16:49:41< fendrin_> Okay, back to the example.
20120828 16:49:45< Soliton> Alarantalara: oh so there was more discussion? anywhere public?
20120828 16:50:24< fendrin_> Most drakes fly and they fly on all sort of terrains no matter if that is inside of a cave or not.
20120828 16:50:33< Alarantalara> It was in IRC a month or so ago. fendrin_ was asking about the same sort of thing but by modifying the terrain definitions instead of movement types at that time.
20120828 16:51:15< Soliton> ok, guess i skipped over that. good that there was at least some discussion.
20120828 16:51:17< fendrin_> I need to modify the movement table to make sure I can use water terrain for example in a cave.
20120828 16:51:51< fendrin_> That is all a little hacky and hard to guess for the player, thus having multiple movetypes is a good solution.
20120828 16:52:18< fendrin_> But there are plenty of use cases.
20120828 16:52:21< Soliton> because those are blindingly obvious to the player, right i see.
20120828 16:52:56< Soliton> well, i'll leave to expand on your example maybe it makes sense at some point.
20120828 16:53:09< Soliton> s/leave/leave you/
20120828 16:53:11 * Soliton goes home.
20120828 16:53:14< fendrin_> A dryad can be a shapeshifter that has a treelike form and a humanoid form.
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20120828 16:54:11< Alarantalara> In which case you'd want to transform the unit, not just change the movement
20120828 16:56:12< fendrin_> Yes, that is true. Changing the whole unit is always an option.
20120828 16:58:05< fendrin_> I had some sort of "aspect changing" for my RPG addon in mind.
20120828 16:58:41< fendrin_> Where the unit stays basically the same, just uses different well "aspects" from turn to turn.
20120828 16:59:12< Tigge> win 21
20120828 16:59:15< Tigge> argh
20120828 16:59:48< fendrin_> I guess that can all be done by having different units and transform them into each other, still I would prefer to have all the data in one place and show it to the user in one unit description.
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20120828 17:21:58< Necrosporus> How to call basic mosquito unit, giant mosquito or just mosquito?
20120828 17:22:18< Necrosporus> Its 9hp, 8-1 dmg 
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20120828 17:26:12< fendrin_> Necrosporus: Well, a mosquito with 9hp I would call Nightmare Mosquito.
20120828 17:26:33< zookeeper> this channel really is for mainline development, not coming up with names for UMC mosquitoes
20120828 17:27:56< fendrin_> Necrosporus: You must know, everything about open source game development is very serious business. Especially if it is a fantasy game.
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20120828 18:16:25< Necrosporus> Wesnoth segfaulted when I tried to create unit on place where unit already was, 1.10.4
20120828 18:16:33< Necrosporus> Accidentally, though
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20120828 19:51:58< CIA-107> zookeeper * r55179 /trunk/images/flags/flag-icon.png: An improved default flag icon from Blarumyrran.
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20120828 20:30:21< mordante> servus
20120828 20:33:52< lipkab> hi mordante
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20120828 21:11:12< Soliton> fendrin_: still working on multiple movetypes?
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20120828 21:13:41< Ivanovic> mordante: ping
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20120828 21:47:49< CIA-107> alarantalara * r55180 /trunk/data/core/images/terrain/cave/wall-rough-convex-br.png: Get rid of a sharp corner on the cave wall
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20120828 22:20:24< CIA-107> jamit * r55181 /trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): Play healing animation when poison is cured.
20120828 22:45:54< CIA-107> alarantalara * r55182 /trunk/data/core/images/terrain/cave/ (3 files): Clean up more sharp edges in the cave walls
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20120828 22:55:43< shadowm> wesbot: seen Crab_
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--- Log closed Wed Aug 29 00:00:39 2012