--- Log opened Thu Aug 23 00:00:54 2012
20120823 00:02:34< Gambit> Certainly not as exciting as five-hundred and fifty-fifth
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20120823 04:32:51< celticminstrel> I can't seem to move units from variables into an AI's recall list...
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20120823 07:09:34< prize> click and win check: http://codnbeat.hu
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20120823 07:11:26< shadowm> No, I'm not about to ban it and an indeterminate amount of hungarian users. Let network staff deal with it.
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20120823 07:24:25< celticminstrel> Is there any good way to teleport a unit with debug commands?
20120823 07:34:19< celticminstrel> It seems that if you specify ellipse= in a [unit] tag, the ellipse specified in the [unit_type] (if any) takes precedence over it.
20120823 07:42:54< Necrosporus> celticminstrel, you may use unit moves=1000
20120823 07:43:36< celticminstrel> Figured that out a little while ago.
20120823 07:43:51< celticminstrel> And attacks_left=1 to give them a second attack. ^_^
20120823 07:44:07< celticminstrel> (Though I used 20 instead of 1000. Not really important.)
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20120823 12:10:34< Soliton> elias: http://units.wesnoth.org/1.10/mainline/en_US/era_default.html is missing at least spearman from loyalists and footpad from knalgan alliance.
20120823 12:11:13< elias> hm
20120823 12:11:15< elias> thanks
20120823 12:11:22< elias> I'll look into it when I get home
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20120823 12:12:16< elias> guess it's broken ever since the last time I changed something, must have added a bug into the era code
20120823 12:13:02< elias> since those units do appear in the campaign mode... so yeah, I guess the era sorting somehow loses them :/
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20120823 17:20:07< celticminstrel> How on earth does " ({USES}" + _"doses left" + ")" result in displaying "( left)"? (when {USES} is a variable whose value is so,ething like 120)
20120823 17:20:14< celticminstrel> ^something
20120823 17:20:28< zookeeper> well because you have parenthesis inside quotes?
20120823 17:20:36< zookeeper> err
20120823 17:20:36< zookeeper> wait
20120823 17:21:29< zookeeper> "{USES} is a variable" isn't very self-explanatory
20120823 17:21:48< celticminstrel> USES is a macro parameter to which a $variable is passed.
20120823 17:22:08< zookeeper> okay
20120823 17:22:18< zookeeper> i think i'd like to see a bit more comprehensive pastebin of the relevant code then
20120823 17:22:23< celticminstrel> Okay.
20120823 17:23:37< celticminstrel> http://pastebin.com/w82a45DA
20120823 17:25:39< zookeeper> so, which tag are you putting all that inside of?
20120823 17:26:16< celticminstrel> It's in an [event] tag.
20120823 17:26:34< celticminstrel> Which is in a [scenario] tag.
20120823 17:27:23< zookeeper> ok, just checking. so, can you verify that variables do work in description= at all? i don't know if they do (although i'd sure expect them to)
20120823 17:28:41< celticminstrel> Well, it worked before I introduced the macro.
20120823 17:30:17< zookeeper> well, it looks like it ought to work...
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20120823 17:31:12< celticminstrel> Which is probably why I'm so confused. Where is the word "doses" disappearing to? :/
20120823 17:31:30< celticminstrel> Oh, maybe...
20120823 17:32:01< zookeeper> oh, right
20120823 17:32:03< zookeeper> i got it, i think
20120823 17:32:22< zookeeper> it attempts to use the variable $healing_potiondoses
20120823 17:32:28< zookeeper> insert a space to fix :p
20120823 17:32:30< celticminstrel> Yeah, I got it too.
20120823 17:32:36< celticminstrel> Thanks. :)
20120823 17:32:44< zookeeper> that was a fun one
20120823 17:45:23< celticminstrel> Now I have to figure out why it's not adding my custom status...
20120823 17:50:40< celticminstrel> Is there any particular reason why [modify_unit] can't remove things? It seems like an older incarnation of it (in the Wesnoth Lua Pack) was able to.
20120823 17:54:53< celticminstrel> …though, in this case, removal is supposed to be automatic at the end of the level.
20120823 17:56:25< celticminstrel> Basically, if I add the status in my [object] with duration=level, the status never goes away at the end of the level.
20120823 17:57:04< celticminstrel> But when I try to add it with [set_variable] or [modify_unit], it doesn't even show at all.
20120823 17:58:35< celticminstrel> The latter works somewhere else, so I'm unsure why it fails here.
20120823 17:59:25< zookeeper> duration=level doesn't work atm, AFAIK
20120823 18:00:27< celticminstrel> It does work. The other effect is removed at the end of the level.
20120823 18:00:32< celticminstrel> I'm in 1.10.
20120823 18:01:37< zookeeper> anyway, i'm not sure why [modify_unit] can't remove. i think it was kinda hairy to try to design to work as you'd expect in all situations, or due to some other non-obvious problems.
20120823 18:02:08< zookeeper> well, again, without seeing the code it's kinda hard to tell if there's something wrong with it
20120823 18:02:21< celticminstrel> Yeah, I was already in the process of pastebinning. :)
20120823 18:02:28< celticminstrel> http://pastebin.com/LbXgv2Pa
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20120823 18:02:53< celticminstrel> I have all three methods mixed together in there, with comments.
20120823 18:03:49< celticminstrel> (I also tried x,y=$x1,$y1 in the [modify_unit] filter.)
20120823 18:03:59< zookeeper> hrhm
20120823 18:04:02< celticminstrel> (This is inside a [command] in a [set_menu_item].)
20120823 18:06:40< zookeeper> if you give the unit the status with an [object], and then store and unstore it (without any modification), does the status disappear?
20120823 18:07:13< celticminstrel> Considering I did store and unstore it afterwards, and it didn't disappear, I believe I can safely say "no".
20120823 18:07:30< celticminstrel> Oh wait.
20120823 18:07:38< celticminstrel> Maybe "without any modification" is relevant.
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20120823 18:09:21< celticminstrel> With the current code it doesn't make any difference whether they've attacked something (since having attacked something would mean the unit isn't modified).
20120823 18:09:41< celticminstrel> They get the status both ways.
20120823 18:12:14< celticminstrel> And both ways they keep the status in the next scenario.
20120823 18:13:27< zookeeper> err, so just to clarify, does the [set_variable] method set the status at all, or not?
20120823 18:13:33< zookeeper> i got the impression that you meant that it doesn't
20120823 18:15:21< celticminstrel> It doesn't. Which doesn't really make any sense.
20120823 18:17:33< zookeeper> uh. yeah, it doesn't. how are you verifying that it doesn't?
20120823 18:17:46< celticminstrel> With :inspect.
20120823 18:18:16< zookeeper> mmkay... well, that does sound very odd, because it _should_ work
20120823 18:18:35< celticminstrel> I'll test again just to be sure. :P
20120823 18:19:05< celticminstrel> Okay, now it works. :?
20120823 18:19:12< zookeeper> and make sure you don't have another event somewhere which clears it right afterwards... wouldn't be the first time that happens to someone ;)
20120823 18:19:13< zookeeper> oh
20120823 18:19:19< zookeeper> well... good?
20120823 18:19:29< celticminstrel> I dunno what went wrong last time I tested it.
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20120823 18:20:00< celticminstrel> And not carried to next scenario. Yay!
20120823 18:24:41< csarmi> hello
20120823 18:26:11< csarmi> I'm using the 'Ruffian' unit from mainline. I changed its ID however (to 'OK Ruffian') and its cost. I would prefer to change its name too. But how do I do at while keeping the translations working? (just want to add a prefix/suffix to the unit name so that it's clear that it's not the exact same ruffian as the mainline one).
20120823 18:26:40< celticminstrel> It always annoys me when I see people adding arbitrary prefixes/suffixes to the unit name. :(
20120823 18:26:48< csarmi> *how do I do that
20120823 18:27:00< csarmi> well I had to add prefix to unit ID right
20120823 18:27:20< celticminstrel> Yeah, of course. That's not what annoys me.
20120823 18:27:25< csarmi> wouldn't be hood politics to have a different unit with same idea
20120823 18:27:31< csarmi> but what do I do about the name
20120823 18:27:36< celticminstrel> Um. I assume you've made a copy of ruffian.cfg and edited that… did you change the textdomain declaration?
20120823 18:27:44< csarmi> no
20120823 18:27:58< celticminstrel> Have you changed any translatable strings at all?
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20120823 18:28:08< csarmi> nope
20120823 18:28:22< celticminstrel> Okay, so use concatenation.
20120823 18:28:27< csarmi> but if I renamed the unit that'd change the string ofc
20120823 18:28:35< celticminstrel> You probably have your own textdomain, right?
20120823 18:28:47< csarmi> I'm a noob
20120823 18:28:54< csarmi> no I dunno much about textdomain
20120823 18:28:54< celticminstrel> :/
20120823 18:29:02< zookeeper> csarmi, so you want the unit name to be "<non-translated prefix> <translated name>"?
20120823 18:29:08< csarmi> name= _ "Brigand" + " OK"
20120823 18:29:13< celticminstrel> Yes, that'll work.
20120823 18:29:14< zookeeper> yes
20120823 18:29:15< csarmi> that would do Zookeeper
20120823 18:29:17< csarmi> and
20120823 18:29:25< csarmi> textdomain stuff I can learn that too
20120823 18:29:41< csarmi> actually it's just an era of a friend of mine and I'm trying to fix it
20120823 18:29:45< celticminstrel> Or name="OK" + _"Ruffian"
20120823 18:29:52< celticminstrel> Um, with a space after OK.
20120823 18:29:59< csarmi> aha
20120823 18:30:00< zookeeper> if the file only contains the same strings as the core ruffian, then just use #textdomain wesnoth-units or whatever ruffian has
20120823 18:30:12< celticminstrel> It's usually wesnoth-units.
20120823 18:30:16< csarmi> well its basically the core ruffian just +1 costs
20120823 18:30:35< csarmi> what does textdomain do exactly?
20120823 18:30:45< csarmi> for example I'd like to have my 'faction's shown in help
20120823 18:30:49< celticminstrel> If the only thing you've changed is the costs, I'd argue there's not point in a suffix.
20120823 18:30:51< csarmi> Outlaws faction
20120823 18:31:13< csarmi> yea celticminstrel but this way in help I got two slightly different ruffians
20120823 18:31:13< celticminstrel> They'll show in help automatically.
20120823 18:31:23< celticminstrel> Yeah, true. That's also annoying.
20120823 18:31:26< csarmi> with same name in help
20120823 18:31:39< celticminstrel> That's because all eras are loaded at the same time, rather than just the era actually being used.
20120823 18:31:53< celticminstrel> ^no point, not "not point".
20120823 18:32:00< csarmi> yes well 
20120823 18:32:27< csarmi> I don't understand what determines the 'grouping' in help
20120823 18:32:34< celticminstrel> Grouping/
20120823 18:32:36< celticminstrel> ?
20120823 18:32:49< csarmi> elves
20120823 18:32:51< csarmi> falcons
20120823 18:32:53< csarmi> humans
20120823 18:32:59< csarmi> factions
20120823 18:33:02< celticminstrel> It's by race.
20120823 18:33:07< csarmi> only the 6 normal
20120823 18:33:11< csarmi> but khalifate
20120823 18:33:14< csarmi> and outlaws
20120823 18:33:19< csarmi> which is defined in the era
20120823 18:33:19< celticminstrel> No, they're all by race.
20120823 18:33:21< csarmi> dont show there
20120823 18:33:35< csarmi> oh I see
20120823 18:33:36< csarmi> race=human
20120823 18:33:40< celticminstrel> Yes.
20120823 18:33:46< csarmi> but faction=?
20120823 18:33:58< lipkab> There's no such key.
20120823 18:33:58< celticminstrel> Units don't have factions.
20120823 18:34:29< csarmi> but they are grouped by factions for me
20120823 18:34:37< csarmi> under 'weapon specialties'
20120823 18:34:46< csarmi> dtakes, knaigans, etc
20120823 18:34:56< lipkab> In the help? Screenshot, please :P
20120823 18:35:07< celticminstrel> He's talking about the faction descriptions.
20120823 18:35:25< celticminstrel> Which it seems don't even show the era's factions. :(
20120823 18:35:51< lipkab> Ah.
20120823 18:36:18< csarmi> screenie
20120823 18:36:18< csarmi> http://imagebin.org/225599
20120823 18:36:35< csarmi> shoule have say 'khalifate' and 'outlaws'
20120823 18:37:18< lipkab> Probably khalifate and outlaws don't have any [help] sections defined.
20120823 18:37:20< csarmi> era.cfg
20120823 18:37:20< csarmi> http://pastebin.com/MVFjRBRf
20120823 18:37:41< celticminstrel> [help] sections?
20120823 18:37:55< lipkab> Or I dunno...
20120823 18:37:58< csarmi> I thought that when I define a faction, it groups by that in help too. would make sense
20120823 18:38:14< celticminstrel> Apparently khalifate are their own race.
20120823 18:38:15< csarmi> where can I find [help] sections
20120823 18:38:22< csarmi> they are yes
20120823 18:38:34< celticminstrel> I thought they'd be race=human.
20120823 18:38:49< celticminstrel> Then again, aragwaithi are also their own race despite being called human.
20120823 18:38:53< csarmi> race=khalifate 
20120823 18:39:03< csarmi> we have it as race = khalifate
20120823 18:39:29< csarmi> I'm not sure why exactly but I don't think it's bad.
20120823 18:40:13< celticminstrel> lipkab: I see this, but that doesn't look conducive to eras defining their own sections: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/HelpWML
20120823 18:40:34< celticminstrel> Nah, it's not strictly a bad thing. Just slightly surprising, since human units don't have human as their race.
20120823 18:40:41< lipkab> csarmi: Well, I thought that you need some extra stuff in the faction definition to show up in the help, but that's apparently not the case.
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20120823 18:41:02< lipkab> ...UMC factions just don't show up at all.
20120823 18:41:32< lipkab> Maybe you could file a bug report/feature request on this.
20120823 18:41:49< csarmi> I'll see
20120823 18:42:04< csarmi> at some point I'll need a help section for khalifate
20120823 18:42:08< celticminstrel> Is there any way to hide help for the core units ONLY if your era is the one chosen and NOT if some other era is chosen?
20120823 18:42:12< csarmi> but probably not yet
20120823 18:42:31< celticminstrel> The current [hide_help] is simply injected into [+units] and thus will apply no matter which era is chosen.
20120823 18:44:45< csarmi> now this part is greek to me :)
20120823 18:45:07< csarmi> can I make sure my era does hide helps then? I guess not
20120823 18:45:12< csarmi> as it's defined in core?
20120823 18:45:30< celticminstrel> I tried for my era. As I recall I didn't have much success.
20120823 18:45:40< celticminstrel> [hide_help] is really only good for campaigns.
20120823 18:45:43< celticminstrel> I think.
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20120823 18:46:40< csarmi> so I shouldn't worry about help now
20120823 18:46:48< celticminstrel> Probably not.
20120823 18:46:49< csarmi> except for maybe file a feature request
20120823 18:47:01< celticminstrel> You can include your suffix if you want as a distinguishing mark.
20120823 18:47:20< csarmi> cause for this friend's era I dont care and if khalifate ever gets mainline it'd be taken care of in core anyway
20120823 18:47:23< csarmi> aha
20120823 18:47:29< csarmi> well that, yea :)
20120823 18:51:49< csarmi> tx a lot
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20120823 20:23:03< elias> Soliton: it's fixed now (well, once the website updates)
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20120823 20:57:21< csarmi> hiya
20120823 20:57:45< csarmi> I need a unit that either flies or swims and would fit into outlaws theme
20120823 20:58:17< csarmi> anyone has an idea on where I can borrow one :)
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20120823 20:58:33< csarmi> if its in any of the mainling campaigns, better
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20120823 20:58:52< Necrosporus> csarmi, naga?
20120823 20:59:48< Necrosporus> May someone want to test my unit?
20120823 21:00:02< csarmi> Necrosporus naga:
20120823 21:00:11< csarmi> problem is - which naga
20120823 21:00:16< Necrosporus> It's more or less complete, having two portraits, several animations and so on
20120823 21:00:28< csarmi> cant use the guardian, because there is already way too much impact
20120823 21:00:34< Necrosporus> csarmi, there's only one naga for each level
20120823 21:01:25< csarmi> and I cant use the mainling naga because it's supposed to play against northerners for example
20120823 21:01:36< csarmi> and it'd be weird
20120823 21:03:37< csarmi> basically it's an era with the mainling factions
20120823 21:03:45< csarmi> dwarves have only dwarven units
20120823 21:03:48< csarmi> has khalifate
20120823 21:04:00< csarmi> and this outlaw faction which only lacks a flier/swimmer now
20120823 21:04:33< Necrosporus> Than it must be a human?
20120823 21:05:02< Necrosporus> csarmi, do you want a dragonfly?
20120823 21:05:04< csarmi> mnot necessarily
20120823 21:05:17< csarmi> can be some pirate, some ship, whatever
20120823 21:05:28< Necrosporus> There's pirate galeon
20120823 21:05:31< Necrosporus> mainline
20120823 21:05:48< csarmi> yea well that has a weird movetype
20120823 21:05:56< csarmi> mbut i thought about that
20120823 21:06:14< Necrosporus> You may change it if you want to
20120823 21:07:04< lipkab> csarmi: Archaic Era has some pirates.
20120823 21:10:13< Necrosporus> Anyways, how do I test big portrait?
20120823 21:10:19< Necrosporus> one which's transparent
20120823 21:10:36< Necrosporus> I added it to the unit and want to see if it works
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20120823 21:25:01< Necrosporus> csarmi, do you want to take a look at my addon?
20120823 21:29:34< celticminstrel> csarmi: I chose naga hunter for the outlaws.
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20120823 21:30:25< celticminstrel> (It's from Under the Burning Suns.)
20120823 21:30:36< celticminstrel> And I made a level 2 advancement for it, since it had no advancements.
20120823 21:31:09< celticminstrel> Also, if you think it's "weird" for two factions to have the same units, does that mean you've removed the mage from Rebels? :P
20120823 21:31:49< celticminstrel> As for ships, I don't recommend using them since they can't move on land at all, meaning that if you recruit one wrong you'll have the ship taking up keep space indefinitely.
20120823 21:32:16< celticminstrel> Unless you change the movetype, of course.
20120823 21:34:11< celticminstrel> There's also Naga Warden or something in UtbS, which does have a unit for each level 1-3.
20120823 21:34:43< celticminstrel> (Minor downside: these two have sprites that don't match the core naga sprites.)
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20120823 22:20:45< csarmi> mtx celticminstrel
20120823 22:21:00< csarmi> I may choose the poison naga
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20120823 23:03:37< Necrosporus> http://storage3.static.itmages.ru/i/12/0823/h_1345742625_5080147_9c06c0d75e.png
20120823 23:03:45< Necrosporus> Is this unit portrait fine?
20120823 23:05:32< celticminstrel> I see no reason why not? Why are you asking?
20120823 23:06:46< Necrosporus> just to get some opinions of is it fine
20120823 23:07:16< celticminstrel> Not sure what it's meant to be, though.
20120823 23:07:55< shadowm> It will work but it's obviously not mainline-quality.
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20120823 23:12:50< Necrosporus> shadowm, what's wrong with it (compared to mainline)?
20120823 23:15:12< shadowm> The cropping, for starters.
20120823 23:15:46< shadowm> The shading also seems off.
20120823 23:16:15< Necrosporus> What's wrong with cropping?
20120823 23:16:15< shadowm> But really, does it matter? If you are just starting with add-on development, the worst you can do is worry too much about this kind of details, unless you are aiming to become a portrait artist yourself.
20120823 23:16:36< Necrosporus> This one is drawn by an artist
20120823 23:16:39< Necrosporus> I'm coding
20120823 23:16:46< shadowm> Look at every mainline portrait.
20120823 23:16:57< shadowm> All of them are cropped around the waist.
20120823 23:17:42< shadowm> Even the four-legged gryphon.
20120823 23:18:21< shadowm> Necrosporus: Who's the artist, if I may ask?
20120823 23:18:38< Necrosporus> Saurrian
20120823 23:18:49< Necrosporus> Same as author of entire race Shessinsaan
20120823 23:19:03< shadowm> There's no such user in the forums.
20120823 23:19:07< Necrosporus> Yeah
20120823 23:19:14< shadowm> Then?
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20120823 23:19:39< Necrosporus> She doesn't draw for wesnoth except sometimes when asked to
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20120823 23:20:07< shadowm> Okay, that sounds suspicious.
20120823 23:20:28< shadowm> Is the portrait even available under the GNU General Public License version 2 and later?
20120823 23:23:42< Necrosporus> I think so
20120823 23:25:01< shadowm> Well great, then it's probably not. :p
20120823 23:25:08< Necrosporus> shadowm, what does she need to make it awailable under that license besides telling it is?
20120823 23:25:50< shadowm> Generally, just saying it is.
20120823 23:27:01< Necrosporus> Than it is
20120823 23:27:12< Necrosporus> At least she said I may use any license I want to
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20120823 23:27:32< shadowm> Ah, good then.
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20120823 23:28:06< Necrosporus> Also maybe it's required to publish photoshop source?
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20120823 23:29:55< shadowm> No.
20120823 23:30:56< Necrosporus> Well, she may if it's needed, the source is probably few times bigger in resolution and more messy
20120823 23:33:29< shadowm> In mainline, we consider the final .png, .jpg, .wav, and .ogg files as source for licensing purposes.
20120823 23:34:46< shadowm> Some specific .ogg or .jpg assets may be kept in lossless .wav or .png formats for practical purposes, and there are also some layered sources for things like the main Wesnoth map but it's not a requirement, just a convenience.
20120823 23:36:25< Necrosporus> shadowm, do you have an idea how to fix wml bugs?
20120823 23:36:37< Necrosporus> 20120824 05:56:28 error engine: failed to auto-store $this_unit at (12,5)
20120823 23:36:37< Necrosporus> 20120824 05:56:28 warning engine: variable_info: retrieving member of non-existent WML container, this_unit.max_moves
20120823 23:36:37< Necrosporus> 20120824 05:56:31 error engine: failed to auto-store $this_unit at (12,5)
20120823 23:36:37< Necrosporus> 20120824 05:56:31 warning engine: variable_info: retrieving member of non-existent WML container, this_unit.max_moves
20120823 23:36:40< shadowm> Yes.
20120823 23:36:53< Necrosporus> oh, sorry. it's meant to be 2 lines
20120823 23:37:33< shadowm> But I don't generally do case-by-case support.
20120823 23:37:59< Necrosporus> [filter_self]	    [filter_wml]		moves=$this_unit.max_moves	    [/filter_wml]	[/filter_self]
20120823 23:38:16< Necrosporus> shadowm, this bug stays for few days, still noone answered
20120823 23:38:21< shadowm> I obviously can't work without greater conext either.
20120823 23:38:39< shadowm> *context
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20120823 23:44:39< Necrosporus> shadowm, http://pastebin.com/xLjyw2vx this is the ability code
20120823 23:44:51< Necrosporus> And if you want, there's also whole addon
20120823 23:45:17< Necrosporus> http://storage9.static.itmages.ru/i/12/0824/h_1345758260_8329379_0fa3f9111b.png is this portrait better?
20120823 23:46:17-!- sur_nhm [~chatzilla@109.64.12.249] has joined #wesnoth
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--- Log closed Fri Aug 24 00:00:54 2012