--- Log opened Fri Aug 24 00:00:54 2012
20120824 00:07:47< shadowm> Necrosporus: Your ability works for me.
20120824 00:08:17< Necrosporus> shadowm, but it spams wml errors
20120824 00:08:28< Necrosporus> doesn't it?
20120824 00:08:35< shadowm> No.
20120824 00:08:44< shadowm> Oh, actually, yes.
20120824 00:09:27< Necrosporus> also it works glitch (sometimes unit doesn't lose this ability on moving... or get it back when moving back on place it started
20120824 00:09:33< shadowm> It is possible the ability code is being evaluated in a context where the unit doesn't exist or something.
20120824 00:09:35< Necrosporus> But most of time it works
20120824 00:10:44< Necrosporus> shadowm, can it be done without $this_unit? maybe something like this http://paste.org.ru/?lue0q7
20120824 00:11:23< shadowm> That's made-up syntax and won't work.
20120824 00:12:08< shadowm> The filter_wml SUF subtag only does 1:1 matching o.
20120824 00:12:49< shadowm> What you are attempting to do there is match units that have a name attribute with a value of $this_unit.moves and an equals attribute with a value of $this_unit.max_moves, both under the variables container.
20120824 00:14:08< Necrosporus>     [variable]
20120824 00:14:08< Necrosporus>         name=we.gold
20120824 00:14:08< Necrosporus>         greater_than=$they.gold
20120824 00:14:15< Necrosporus> That's from Wiki
20120824 00:14:23< Necrosporus> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SyntaxWML
20120824 00:14:50< shadowm> That's valid in a very specific context, which is conditional evaluation.
20120824 00:15:07< shadowm> As in what is done in [while] and [if], amongst other few possible places.
20120824 00:15:41< shadowm> You can't just assume that syntax that works in one context will somehow automatically work the same in another; that's why context is important.
20120824 00:16:29< shadowm> The filter_wml SUF subtag only does 1:1 matching as I said; it does not do conditional evaluation nor does it interpret any syntax normally used in conditionals.
20120824 00:17:04< Necrosporus> What's SUF?
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20120824 00:17:41< Necrosporus> And anyhow, is this only way to check if unit didn't move? There's is somewhere code which heals idling unit 
20120824 00:17:49< shadowm> The description for [filter_self] in the AbilitiesWML page says the following:
20120824 00:17:59< shadowm> "[filter_self]: if the owner of the ability does not match this filter, it will not receive the effects of the ability. [filter_self] takes a StandardUnitFilter as argument. "
20120824 00:18:05< shadowm> You can easily infer what SUF means from that context.
20120824 00:18:28< Necrosporus> standard unit filter
20120824 00:19:09< shadowm> Yes, I think you could use resting=yes instead, but IIRC the resting attribute is not a reliable indicator of anything. You might as well try, anyway; I don't remember what my particular use case was.
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20120824 00:20:12< shadowm> Since it isn't a formal part of SUFs, it'd have to be filtered with the [filter_wml] subtag too.
20120824 00:20:49< shadowm> Perhaps [not] resting=no [/not] might work more reliably in case the resting attribute simply isn't set at all for a resting unit.
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20120824 00:26:45< Necrosporus> shadowm, seem like it instead makes unit invisible on my turn and visible on enemy's turn...
20120824 00:27:18< shadowm> That's probably what I seemed to remember about the resting attribute not being a reliable indicator of anything.
20120824 00:36:23< Necrosporus> so is there a way to get rid of wml errors without breaking the ability?
20120824 00:37:33< shadowm> *shrug* No idea.
20120824 00:38:54< Necrosporus> shadowm, maybe use something like [not] formula="me.moves != me.max_moves" [/not] ?
20120824 00:39:01< Necrosporus> or just = without not
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20120824 00:40:23< shadowm> I haven't ever tried formulas in SUFs, so no idea whether that works or how.
20120824 00:41:42< Necrosporus> It didn't work, but I'm not sure if I used correct syntax
20120824 00:45:53< Necrosporus> Also do you have an idea how to disable transparency when unit is hidden? I already use transparence in my animation so it's summed with engine added transparency makes unit completely transparent
20120824 00:46:05< Necrosporus> Like shadow in night, btw
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20120824 00:47:43< shadowm> No, it might be hardcoded.
20120824 01:10:54< Necrosporus> Than maybe it need to be fixed, if unit author wants to manage transparency himself
20120824 01:11:53< shadowm> It's not a bug, but it may qualify as a simple feature request.
20120824 01:13:59< Necrosporus> shadowm, there's other problem, I made standing animation via progressive alpha, but if unit stands on place it appears again after some time, probably because engine tries to do idling animation, which is not present and plays standing animation again
20120824 01:14:41< Necrosporus>     [standing_anim]
20120824 01:14:42< Necrosporus> 	duration=3000
20120824 01:14:42< Necrosporus> 	alpha=1.0~0.3:3000
20120824 01:14:42< Necrosporus>     [/standing_anim]
20120824 01:15:43< shadowm> No, it's simply the standing animation looping itself over.
20120824 01:16:06< shadowm> The last frame uses alpha 0.3, and then it obviously goes back to the first frame which has an alpha value of 1.0.
20120824 01:17:11< shadowm> If that behavior isn't what you want, then you need to ensure in your animation's definition that the last frame can transition seamlessly back to the first frame.
20120824 01:17:30< celmin|away> [Aug 23@6:38:54pm] Necrosporus: shadowm, maybe use something like [not] formula="me.moves != me.max_moves" [/not] ?
20120824 01:17:31< celmin|away> I believe it would be formula="moves != max_moves".
20120824 01:17:54< celmin|away> I'll check quickly for the place I used it once...
20120824 01:17:55< shadowm> Perhaps something like alpha=1.0~0.3:1500,0.3~1.0:1500 so it spends an equal amount of time fading out and fading back in.
20120824 01:18:07< Necrosporus> celmin|away, can you write all the syntax inside [hide] which is to be added?
20120824 01:18:15< celmin|away> Huh?
20120824 01:18:25< Necrosporus> celmin|away, can you write entire code?
20120824 01:18:39< Necrosporus> http://pastebin.com/xLjyw2vx
20120824 01:18:51< celmin|away> I can maybe do it, but I think you're asking me to do it for you, which in IRC I think will probably be a no.
20120824 01:19:02< Necrosporus> celmin|away, no
20120824 01:19:06< Necrosporus> I already got a code
20120824 01:19:15< Necrosporus> I do not know which tags to nest
20120824 01:19:35< celmin|away> I used formula="hitpoints < max_hitpoints * 0.5" for an inverse swarm special.
20120824 01:19:48< celmin|away> So, just drop the "me." part.
20120824 01:20:08< Necrosporus> celmin|away, I probably tried it and it didn't work
20120824 01:20:17< celmin|away> So did I.
20120824 01:20:19< Necrosporus> so I missed some tag
20120824 01:20:30< celmin|away> But I think that was because of some additional thing, not because of the formula.
20120824 01:20:48< Necrosporus>         [filter_self]           [filter_wml]                moves=$this_unit.max_moves
20120824 01:20:55< Necrosporus> what it is currently 
20120824 01:21:09< Necrosporus> which tags do I have to nest to use the formula?
20120824 01:21:11< celmin|away> So, try just formula="moves != max_moves" instead of the [filter_wml] stuff and see if it works.
20120824 01:21:25< celmin|away> The formula goes straight into the filter_self tag.
20120824 01:21:54< celmin|away> Or == if that's what you want.
20120824 01:22:08< Necrosporus> == instead of =?
20120824 01:22:12< celmin|away> Though, if that is what you want, the [filter_wml] construct should work...
20120824 01:22:27< celmin|away> Maybe? Check the FormulaAI page on the wiki.
20120824 01:22:28< Necrosporus> it works but spams console with errors
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20120824 01:22:49< celmin|away> By "console" do you mean "chat area"?
20120824 01:24:03< Necrosporus> no, I mean TTY i started wesnoth from
20120824 01:24:15< celmin|away> What errors?
20120824 01:24:30< Necrosporus> 20120824 06:56:36 error engine: failed to auto-store $this_unit at (11,7)
20120824 01:24:30< Necrosporus> 20120824 06:56:36 warning engine: variable_info: retrieving member of non-existent WML container, this_unit.max_moves
20120824 01:24:35< celmin|away> Also, by "works" do you mean "does exactly what you want it to"?
20120824 01:24:42< celmin|away> Ah.
20120824 01:25:10< celmin|away> Then try the formula= method.
20120824 01:25:25< Necrosporus> It does what I want it to most of time, but sometimes goes glitch (doesn't unhide)
20120824 01:25:40< celmin|away> I dunno, maybe [filter_self] mysteriously doesn't offer the $this_unit variable.
20120824 01:25:59< Necrosporus> but it works
20120824 01:26:11< celmin|away> shadowm: Do you happen to know the difference between [filter_self] and [filter] in an ability tag? The wiki says both are allowed.
20120824 01:26:23< celmin|away> But you said it doesn't quite work correctly.
20120824 01:26:35< Necrosporus> maybe [filter] filters other units?
20120824 01:26:40< Necrosporus> yeah...
20120824 01:26:44< shadowm> celmin|away: I don't.
20120824 01:26:57< Necrosporus> Like adjacent?
20120824 01:27:12< celmin|away> That'd be [filter_adjacent], wouldn't it?
20120824 01:27:50< celmin|away> Anyway, try the formula, look at this page for syntax, and maybe I can help again a bit later. http://wiki.wesnoth.org/FormulaAI
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20120824 01:29:14< Necrosporus> celmin|away, I did look at that, i's currently formula="moves = max_moves"
20120824 01:29:26< Necrosporus> I'm goting to start wesnoth now and check
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20120824 01:30:45< Necrosporus> celmin|away, formula doesn't work
20120824 01:31:25< Necrosporus> it doesn't unhide unit at all
20120824 01:31:33< Necrosporus> it always stays hidden
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20120824 01:36:35< Necrosporus> I guess formula is only evaluted at the start of turn
20120824 01:40:24< Necrosporus> shadowm, I want the unit (since it's chameleon) to became normal before movement (not transparent), or better during movement, than when it stops moving, slowly became transparent again
20120824 01:40:48< Necrosporus> http://pastebin.com/1eXVcjNM this code I tried and it doesn't seem to play post and pre movement animations
20120824 01:41:03< Necrosporus> since it becomes transparent almost instantly
20120824 01:41:36< Necrosporus> when it was standing animation as I shown before, it at least worked as slowly fading, but unit appeared again after a while
20120824 01:42:00< shadowm> Necrosporus: Did you try providing an empty [frame] with the specified duration?
20120824 01:42:38< Necrosporus> do you mean empty as without image? than yes
20120824 01:42:53< Necrosporus> if you look at code you'll see it
20120824 01:43:31< shadowm> I am supposed to look at the paste, or something else? I am asking based on the paste.
20120824 01:46:15< Necrosporus> Yes, you are supposed to look at paste. I didn't quite get what you mean, as it's already frame with only duration and alpha specified. or you ask me if I tried to remove alpha directive from standing?
20120824 01:46:16< shadowm> This is what I am actually proposing: http://pastebin.com/GJPgtD7W
20120824 01:54:24< Necrosporus> Can alpha be used in [frame] too? And seem to work, but timing is to be adjusted 
20120824 01:55:39< shadowm> Yes, it can.
20120824 01:59:58< Necrosporus> Also can I move this animations into ability definition? And anyhow, this animations should probably be used via something like {ANIM_CHAMELEON} via separate macros if it can't
20120824 02:02:11< shadowm> No, it isn't possible to define animations inside an ability or [abilities], but you could do something creative like this (just an idea): http://pastebin.com/NMdFJEVW
20120824 02:03:27< shadowm> The [+abilities] at the end causes the WML parser to continue writing into the last [abilities] tag it encountered, which is important since the macro will be substituted under one and may be followed by more abilities.
20120824 02:03:37< Necrosporus> Thanks, looks interesting
20120824 02:04:04< shadowm> The mainline definition for the feeding ability uses this trick to force an unit type-bound [event] too.
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20120824 02:14:09< Necrosporus> It looks fine, but other units can't be moved until post movement animation played
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20120824 02:42:18< Necrosporus> so I going to distribute alpha fade between movement, post_movement and standing animation
20120824 03:01:45< celmin|away> Necrosporus: Did you try == instead of =?
20120824 03:03:18< celmin|away> In the formula key.
20120824 03:03:53< celmin|away> Ah, but it seems that = is in fact correct. Never mind then.
20120824 03:04:07< Necrosporus> no, but the wiki page it should be "="
20120824 03:04:17< celmin|away> As I just discovered.
20120824 03:05:52< Necrosporus> But wiki page may lie actually
20120824 03:06:12< celmin|away> True, it's possible.
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20120824 03:15:44< Necrosporus> Formula error in formula:1
20120824 03:15:44< Necrosporus> In formula = 
20120824 03:15:44< Necrosporus> Error: Illegal unary operator: '='
20120824 03:15:56< Necrosporus> Game aborted
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20120824 03:18:27< celticminstrel> Heh.
20120824 03:18:36< celticminstrel> Well, try == then?
20120824 03:18:47< Necrosporus> I tried ==
20120824 03:18:53< Necrosporus> And it's what happened
20120824 03:33:23< celticminstrel> Ah.
20120824 03:33:31< celticminstrel> So = is indeed correct then.
20120824 03:33:52< celticminstrel> Because it saw = as a valid operator and then thought the second = was a separate operator.
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20120824 06:12:25< celticminstrel> Should units' personal names be marked as translatable?
20120824 06:13:31< shadowm> .name should be marked as translatable, if you mean that.
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20120824 06:21:22< celticminstrel> I mean name= in a [unit] tag.
20120824 06:23:13< celticminstrel> Also, is there anything special needed for translatable strings in .lua files?
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20120824 06:23:54< celticminstrel> Something that mirrors the #textdomain declaration, I mean (I'm already using local _ = wesnoth.textdomain and so forth).
20120824 06:26:17< celticminstrel> shadowm?
20120824 06:28:04< shadowm> celticminstrel: There's an explnation in the LuaWML page, I think.
20120824 06:28:29< celticminstrel> Okay, but about the name?
20120824 06:28:37< shadowm> Basically, you need both that object and some commented out text resembling the WML #textdomain directive so that both the Lua engine and the catalog generator agree on something.
20120824 06:28:57< shadowm> celticminstrel: .foo is how I call the attribute or subnode foo given an arbitrary WML node.
20120824 06:29:10< celticminstrel> So, what you said is the same as what I said.
20120824 06:29:14< shadowm> So I basically said that the name attribute should be marked as translatabe.
20120824 06:29:16< shadowm> *ble
20120824 06:29:25< celticminstrel> It just seems kinda odd to see personal names being marked translatable. :P
20120824 06:29:37< shadowm> Some translations may choose to transliterate them.
20120824 06:29:54< celticminstrel> Ah, I see.
20120824 06:30:15< celticminstrel> So that native speakers of that language will pronounce them in roughly the same way.
20120824 06:30:44< celticminstrel> The only thing I see in LuaWML is the textdomain object...
20120824 06:31:01< celticminstrel> Ah, but the documentation for wesnoth.textdomain shows an example.
20120824 06:31:19< shadowm> For example, I believe "Elynia" would  have to be transliterated in Japanese using the katakana sequence ェリニア (roughly "Erinia"), but the japanese translators here are lazy and don't transliterate.
20120824 06:31:25< shadowm> Other languages may absolutely need to transliterate, though.
20120824 06:31:26< celticminstrel> Heh.
20120824 06:31:47< shadowm> The rule of thumb is that not all languages in the world use the latin script.
20120824 06:32:14< celticminstrel> Somehow I didn't even think of that.
20120824 06:33:07< celticminstrel> Presumably I can run wmlxgettext or something to make sure this actually works...
20120824 06:35:15< celticminstrel> Or not.
20120824 06:35:39< celticminstrel> From the message when running it with no arguments, it seems it's overly specialized for just the main project...
20120824 06:50:54< shadowm> celticminstrel: You might be interested in this: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=415065#p415065
20120824 06:51:18< celticminstrel> Does that require the Perl version of wmlxgettext?
20120824 06:51:42< shadowm> Yes. The Python version isn't supported.
20120824 06:53:00< celticminstrel> Any reason not to take the latest version in svn?
20120824 06:53:09< celticminstrel> Considering that I'm working in Wesnoth 1.10.
20120824 06:53:18< celticminstrel> No idea whether that's actually relevant though.
20120824 06:53:57< shadowm> The latest version should work just fine.
20120824 06:54:30< celticminstrel> Oh wait, maybe I need some of those .pm files.
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20120824 06:55:12< celticminstrel> A glance at the code implies probably not.
20120824 06:55:38< shadowm> Yeah, it doesn't have any dependencies on utils/.
20120824 06:57:33 * celticminstrel contemplates the possibility of a shell-glob pattern that will match all .cfg/.lua files in arbitrarily nested subdirectories… though, I don't actually have any nested subdirectories so maybe that's a little pointless.
20120824 06:57:59< celticminstrel> Oh wait. I have exactly one.
20120824 06:58:16< celticminstrel> …which is empty.
20120824 07:00:43< shadowm> wmlxgettext [...] `find -name '*.cfg'` [...]
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20120824 07:01:45< shadowm> Ah right, lua too: wmlxgettext [...] `find -name '*.cfg' -or -name '*.lua'` [...]
20120824 07:02:02< celticminstrel> That's… not a shell-glob, but maybe it'll work. Um… it doesn't need a -print?
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20120824 07:04:10< shadowm> Not here at least.
20120824 07:04:27< shadowm> A simple glob won't do because it'll only look under the current directory.
20120824 07:05:11< celticminstrel> Well, pretty sure you can include slashes in a glob, so */*.{cfg,lua} would match any cfg and lua files nested one level.
20120824 07:05:35< shadowm> And only one level.
20120824 07:05:42< celticminstrel> Yes, true.
20120824 07:07:33< celticminstrel> Which would be problematic in a campaign that defines whole new factions and groups the unit configs into folders.
20120824 07:08:06< celticminstrel> One missing detail in your find is that it needs a . after the name: find . -name ...
20120824 07:08:12< celticminstrel> To specify where to start searching.
20120824 07:08:52< celticminstrel> Yay, errors.
20120824 07:09:24< celticminstrel> It doesn't like unbalanced WML.
20120824 07:09:43< celticminstrel> Oh, I remember something about this in core files...
20120824 07:10:16< shadowm> celticminstrel: It doesn't need it here and assumes the current directory.
20120824 07:10:48< celticminstrel> I guess your find is different then, because mine complained about invalid options n, a, m, e, etc.
20120824 07:10:51< shadowm> I imagine that doesn't hold true for all versions of find out there; I've been spoiled by GNU coreutils'.
20120824 07:11:01< celticminstrel> Ah.
20120824 07:11:35< shadowm> More like GNU findutils, anyway; still GNU.
20120824 07:12:30< shadowm> I guess I also tend to assume people here either use Windows, Linux, or Mac OS X, and don't deal with terminal commands in any of the edge cases.
20120824 07:12:34< celticminstrel> So I guess the bug they exploit in wmlxgettext is simply that it recognizes tags within comments.
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20120824 07:13:36< shadowm> It also doesn't understand Lua, hence to get some degree of internationalization in Lua code it's necessary to make it seem like valid WML.
20120824 07:14:12< shadowm> Which is absolutely inelegant, but hey, it works.
20120824 07:14:41< celticminstrel> Currently I'm just trying to see whether it even saw the two translatable strings in the Lua.
20120824 07:15:29< celticminstrel> Looks like it did. Somehow?
20120824 07:16:57< celticminstrel> The comment is "[lua]: wesnoth.theme_items.unit_status" for both of them.
20120824 07:17:15< celticminstrel> Not sure how it got that, but hey, it works, so that's the main thing.
20120824 07:17:49< shadowm> Yeah, as I said it doesn't understand Lua, so it isn't surprising that it'll provide crap in the comments for strings extracted from Lua.
20120824 07:18:02< celticminstrel> Heh.
20120824 07:19:34< celticminstrel> Surrounding the stuff with -- [element] and -- [/element] comments doesn't change that, so I guess I'll just let it put whatever it wants.
20120824 07:21:58 * celticminstrel also vaguely wonders if compiling to .mo is required for the game to be able to use the translation.
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20120824 07:23:12< celticminstrel> (By the way, where's the comment key in the [about][entry] used? It didn't seem to appear in the end credits.)
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20120824 07:24:11< shadowm> It's only used for the wiki.
20120824 07:24:25< celticminstrel> Aw.
20120824 07:24:29< shadowm> Namely, here: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Credits
20120824 07:24:32< celticminstrel> Maybe that'll change someday?
20120824 07:24:40< shadowm> Maybe.
20120824 07:26:32< celticminstrel> Apparently the comments are not supposed to be translatable… :O
20120824 07:27:46< celticminstrel> I'm guessing keys not marked as taking a translatable string actually won't be looked up in the translation catalogue even if they do have a translatable string for some reason?
20120824 07:28:31< shadowm> There's no simple answer.
20120824 07:28:52< celticminstrel> Ah.
20120824 07:29:14< celticminstrel> I suppose it wouldn't hurt to include the translation mark just in case then.
20120824 07:29:23< shadowm> Most code paths simply resolve attribute contents, which may or may not involve the localization engine doing anything depending on whether the parser found a translation mark in the first palce.
20120824 07:29:54< shadowm> But it's possible to get the raw unlocalized string, although there should rarely be a need for that.
20120824 07:30:18< shadowm> In general, it's assumed that the WML author knows what they are doing when distributing translation marks. If they don't, some problems might arise.
20120824 07:32:16< celticminstrel> Minor problems?
20120824 07:33:11< shadowm> All kinds of problems.
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20120824 07:34:10< shadowm> For instance, if you _unintentionally_ marked a side number used to create a unit as translatable, and some translator decided to translate it to something else, you might either end up with a unit on the wrong side with that translation, or an error at runtime if the translation is not a number.
20120824 07:34:31< celticminstrel> Ah.
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20120824 07:34:46< shadowm> Or at least that would be the case in 1.8 and earlier. I'm not sure how localization interacts with data storage optimizations in 1.10.
20120824 07:34:55< celticminstrel> Um. I'd at least make sure any extra translatables were strings!
20120824 07:35:20< shadowm> In case it isn't clear, the engine does not define a syntax schema for WML.
20120824 07:35:56< celticminstrel> That's what schema.cfg is supposed to be for eventually, right?
20120824 07:36:00< shadowm> Some components make assumptions and take value as they need them, but rarely validate the WML document or node structure. The one exception at this point is GUI2, and even that's not all-inclusive.
20120824 07:36:16< shadowm> *values
20120824 07:36:42< shadowm> schema.cfg defines the schemata validated at load-time by the GUI2 framework for GUI2 WML (widget and dialog definitions mainly), yes.
20120824 07:37:10< celticminstrel> Ah.
20120824 07:43:51< celticminstrel> I went to the forum to see if anyone had responded to my post, and realized I'd forgotten to submit it. XD
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20120824 11:50:11< Necrosporus> Can I do post movement animation without blocking next unit movement?
20120824 11:51:21< shadowm> No.
20120824 11:53:01< Necrosporus> I got an idea, maybe if I make standing animation few hours long, than it would actually never repeat?
20120824 11:53:28< shadowm> Why would you want to prevent animation looping?
20120824 11:53:31< Necrosporus> But sounds pretty crutchy
20120824 11:53:40< zookeeper> for all intents and purposes it wouldn't
20120824 11:53:42< Necrosporus> shadowm, my unit is a chameleon
20120824 11:53:50< shadowm> That doesn't tell me anything.
20120824 11:53:56< zookeeper> although it'd probably re-start when loading a game or in other situations as well
20120824 11:54:21< Necrosporus> Unit moves, than slowly takes terrain color and doesn't change it for a while
20120824 11:54:45< Necrosporus> * then
20120824 11:54:49< shadowm> Then have a post-move animation with the fade-out and have the standing animation be a static frame with a specific opacity.
20120824 11:55:02< zookeeper> frankly i don't get why you're so obsessed with those animations for some chameleon unit. that's so completely secondary to whatever kind of faction/era/scenario/campaign/unit you're trying to make.
20120824 11:55:09< Necrosporus> But post move animation blocks next unit
20120824 11:55:25< Necrosporus> So you would have to wait ten seconds before making turn with another unit
20120824 11:55:27< shadowm> Yes, so make it very short.
20120824 11:55:44< shadowm> That kind of animation shouldn't take more than 750 millisecnds.
20120824 11:55:47< Necrosporus> Than it won't take color of terrain very slowly as I intendent
20120824 11:56:16< Necrosporus> real chameleons take about one minute to take terrain color
20120824 11:56:28< shadowm> This is a video game, not real life, though.
20120824 11:56:45< Necrosporus> So I can shorten it to 3-7 second
20120824 11:56:47< Crendgrim> in real life, the day/night schedule is a bit longer as well.
20120824 11:56:52< Necrosporus> Yeah
20120824 11:57:19< Necrosporus> So only way I see is to make standing animation take forever and make unit fade at its start
20120824 11:58:03< Necrosporus> alpha=0.9~0.3:5000,0.3
20120824 11:58:17< Necrosporus> and duration about 3600000
20120824 11:59:30< Crendgrim> would it maybe work with a custom animation by triggering it from within a moveto event?
20120824 12:01:56< Necrosporus> maybe, but how to make its move undoable than?
20120824 12:03:44< Necrosporus> zookeeper, I want to make only one unit, but make it perfect, then maybe I try to make a scenario/campaign/whatever
20120824 12:04:00< Crendgrim> Necrosporus:  [allow_undo] 
20120824 12:07:43< Necrosporus> Can I make AI use that unit more wisely? If AI makes it move every turn, as it usually is, it would never be invisible
20120824 12:08:05< Necrosporus> And ability would be wasted
20120824 12:08:53< Crendgrim> do you only make it *transparent*, not *invisible*?
20120824 12:08:57< Crendgrim> or..
20120824 12:09:05< Crendgrim> only invisible, not "unseeable"?
20120824 12:10:10< zookeeper> no, the AI doesn't use it wisely.
20120824 12:10:41< Necrosporus> Crendgrim, unit is transparent as animation
20120824 12:10:54< Necrosporus> And it's invisible if it didn't move this turn
20120824 12:11:11< Necrosporus> So while it stays on place enemy can't see it
20120824 12:11:24< Necrosporus> If it moved, than enemy will see it unit next turn
20120824 12:11:29< Crendgrim> ah.
20120824 12:12:24< Necrosporus> Also it's currently made via moves=$this_unit.max_moves in filter_wml in filter_self and spams console with errors
20120824 12:12:39< Necrosporus> So I maybe can make it into moveto event
20120824 12:13:04< Necrosporus> Unhide, play animation as it unhides, move and fade again
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20120824 14:41:34< svenstaro> omg guys you need a systemd file
20120824 14:41:36< svenstaro> for wesnothd
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20120824 14:45:21< loonycyborg> svenstaro: I hope I'll get around to trying systemd on my gentoo system soon. Though that would involve lot of unmasking since I'm on stable branch :P
20120824 14:46:21< svenstaro> loonycyborg: do you have commit rights?
20120824 14:46:24< svenstaro> I have a working file
20120824 14:46:32< loonycyborg> To wesnoth? Yes.
20120824 14:47:29< svenstaro> wanna commit mah file? it is really is
20120824 14:47:31< svenstaro> easy
20120824 14:47:41< svenstaro> too easy too fail :P
20120824 14:48:14< loonycyborg> I guess I could commit it untested.
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20120824 14:49:34< svenstaro> Are you still maintaining autotools?
20120824 14:49:47< loonycyborg> Nope.
20120824 14:49:50< svenstaro> yay
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20120824 14:50:34< svenstaro> are you the dude gnerally responsible for this kinda stuff?
20120824 14:50:37< svenstaro> systemd and such?
20120824 14:50:45< svenstaro> it's really quite easy
20120824 14:51:36< loonycyborg> I maintain scons, and also keep getting distracted from rewriting wesnothd to use asio :P
20120824 14:52:53< svenstaro> cmake and scons need to be maitnained right?
20120824 14:53:13< svenstaro> let's do this together real quick
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20120824 14:53:18< svenstaro> what is the fifo stuff for?
20120824 14:54:35< loonycyborg> To send commands to wesnothd. Soliton uses it iirc.
20120824 14:55:02< svenstaro> is there any standard path to put that?
20120824 14:56:00< loonycyborg> /var/run/wesnothd
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20120824 14:58:01< heftig> loonycyborg: is that the default path for FIFO_DIR?
20120824 14:58:51< loonycyborg> At least buildsystems install it there :P
20120824 14:59:42< Soliton> it's also the default in c++.
20120824 15:03:26< svenstaro> ok nice thanks
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20120824 15:05:36< svenstaro> how would you like the patch?
20120824 15:05:42< svenstaro> and when's the next maintenance release?
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20120824 15:12:54< loonycyborg> svenstaro: svn diff would be fine.
20120824 15:13:35< sur_nhm> It seems that when I compile BfW via SVN, it compiles the whole thing.
20120824 15:13:40< loonycyborg> /Topic in #wesnoth-dev says when releases are planned.
20120824 15:13:48< sur_nhm> How do I compile the delta?
20120824 15:14:01< loonycyborg> 1.10.4 planned for 24th August | 1.11.0 planned for 25th August
20120824 15:14:30< sur_nhm> (I'm currently using svn up && scons && scons install)
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20120824 15:15:04< svenstaro> loonycyborg: oh new release today?
20120824 15:15:40< loonycyborg> sur_nhm: Pretty sure it would use incremental rebuild in this case, but header changes cause near-full rebuild.
20120824 15:16:00< sur_nhm> I see.
20120824 15:16:02< sur_nhm> :/
20120824 15:16:41< svenstaro> loonycyborg: let's get my patch in for that
20120824 15:16:43< loonycyborg> And such a rebuild *is* needed since header changes can cause breakages otherwise.
20120824 15:17:00< sur_nhm> Ah.
20120824 15:17:18 * sur_nhm 's programming fu never went past the scripting stage.
20120824 15:19:32< loonycyborg> svenstaro: 1.10 releases are not from trunk but from 1.10 branch. You probably need to target trunk and thus 1.11
20120824 15:21:33< svenstaro> this is easy to backport
20120824 15:21:35< svenstaro> can we do both?
20120824 15:23:15< loonycyborg> Not sure. 1.10 is in feature freeze. Bug fixes and translation updates only.
20120824 15:23:43< svenstaro> it's a bug fix, it doesn't work with systemd
20120824 15:23:56< heftig> it didn't work with anything :p
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20120824 16:34:35< svenstaro> loonycyborg: http://ompldr.org/vZjgybQ
20120824 16:34:37< svenstaro> gogogo
20120824 16:39:49< svenstaro> it even backports!
20120824 16:39:55< svenstaro> loonycyborg: pls commit :3
20120824 16:40:13< loonycyborg> I'd need to add it to scons first :P
20120824 16:40:26< svenstaro> yeah
20120824 16:40:30< svenstaro> I have no idea about le scons
20120824 16:40:38< svenstaro> but I hear your are just the man for the job
20120824 16:40:53< svenstaro> it should be fairly trivial as I'm not doing anything fancy
20120824 16:42:58< loonycyborg> Still, those placeholders don't make sense for it. I guess I could fill them in anyway for now..
20120824 16:44:23< svenstaro> placeholders_
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20120824 16:55:44< svenstaro> loonycyborg: any questions about the patch?
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20120824 16:57:06< loonycyborg> svenstaro: I'd like to find a way to have one template of wesnothd.service for both buildsystems :P
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20120824 17:01:03< svenstaro> what format does scons need for substitution?
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20120824 17:07:21< loonycyborg> svenstaro: The way I've used for Wesnoth.nsi.in uses %foo style placeholders.
20120824 17:07:43< loonycyborg> iirc it could be changed to use @foo but not @foo@
20120824 17:10:09< svenstaro> so how does Wesnoth.nsi.in work with cmake?
20120824 17:11:36< loonycyborg> It doesn't. That's what I'm using when making windows releases and I use scons for it.
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20120824 17:12:39< svenstaro> heh so what's wrong with committing something that only works on cmake?
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20120824 17:19:01< loonycyborg> Because I want to eventually use it too :P
20120824 17:19:31< loonycyborg> svenstaro: http://pastebin.com/YkVeMzt7 <- are install locations correct modulo /tmp/wesnoth?
20120824 17:21:43< loonycyborg> it == systemd unit file
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20120824 17:25:13< svenstaro> yep looks fine
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20120824 17:49:29< loonycyborg> svenstaro: Hm.. It seems that pkg_check_modules uses pkg-config. If so then it won't find anything if systemd development files aren't installed.
20120824 17:49:39< loonycyborg> Otherwise I'm ready to commit :P
20120824 17:51:13< svenstaro> it's implicitly optional though isn't it?
20120824 17:51:20< svenstaro> I didn't add REQUIRED
20120824 17:51:24< svenstaro> so it will fail but that's ok
20120824 17:52:12< loonycyborg> It won't install them for users that use systemd without development files for it installed. But I'll commit if it's fine with you :P
20120824 17:52:56< loonycyborg> .pc files are usually installed with -dev packages.
20120824 17:53:04< svenstaro> wat
20120824 17:53:11< loonycyborg> On debian-based distros.
20120824 17:53:15< svenstaro> hah
20120824 17:53:20< svenstaro> screw them
20120824 17:54:00< svenstaro> there is no other way to sensibly check for systemd otherwise I think
20120824 17:54:14< svenstaro> let's use it like this for now and change it a bit when bug reports come in
20120824 17:54:26< svenstaro> all those other lowly distros use their own systemd files anyway
20120824 17:54:40< loonycyborg> There's also `which systemd`
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20120824 17:55:35< heftig> systemd might not be in the path
20120824 17:56:02< heftig> the binary is /usr/lib/systemd/systemd, with a symlink /sbin/init for booting
20120824 17:56:08< loonycyborg> Anyway, committed as r55081
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20120824 18:09:51< svenstaro> yay
20120824 18:09:55< svenstaro> yay~~~~
20120824 18:11:06< svenstaro> can we get a new release? :3
20120824 18:13:18< loonycyborg> The release manager doesn't seem to be very active right now..
20120824 18:14:22< svenstaro> give him a tasteful smack to activate him again
20120824 18:19:47< loonycyborg> Oh shit! I forgot to give credit in commit message :(
20120824 18:22:13< Necrosporus> Which editor would you recommend for WML for Windows? 
20120824 18:22:32< Necrosporus> (I'm using KWrite myself, it's fine)
20120824 18:22:51< loonycyborg> People were recommending notepad+ iirc
20120824 18:23:33< loonycyborg> Or maybe even notepad++ :P
20120824 18:23:53< loonycyborg> I don't remember for sure.
20120824 18:24:21< loonycyborg> Aren't kde apps ported to windows so you could just use kwrite there too?
20120824 18:24:34< Necrosporus> Well, its not for me
20120824 18:24:40< Necrosporus> I do not want to use windows
20120824 18:25:07< Necrosporus> But yes, it is, but it requres to install a lot of stuff along
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20120824 18:35:59< svenstaro> er
20120824 18:36:15< svenstaro> just use notepad++
20120824 18:36:46< Necrosporus> Ok, so i recommended it
20120824 18:36:59< Necrosporus> Does it need anything to support WML highlighting
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20120824 20:44:50< Ivanovic> hi
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20120824 21:54:39< mordante> svenstaro, around?
20120824 21:54:56< svenstaro> mordante: wat
20120824 21:55:42< mordante> svenstaro, regarding your systemd patch, what is the wesnothd.tmpfiles.conf.in file for? (I'm the CMake maintainer)
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20120824 21:57:22< svenstaro> mordante: it's for recreating temporary file directories
20120824 21:58:24< mordante> ok thanks
20120824 21:59:10< mordante> I'll probably tweak some things after 1.11.0, disabling it when no -dev packages are installed seems like a bad idea to me
20120824 21:59:51< svenstaro> mordante: that is pretty much a debian problem
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20120824 22:00:07< svenstaro> i dont think there is any way to detect if systemd is installed otherwise
20120824 22:00:33< mordante> true, but if no dev packages are installed the user can't select the option
20120824 22:00:47< mordante> and on servers I don't expect dev packages to be installed
20120824 22:02:32< loonycyborg> sysctl can be absent too?
20120824 22:03:10< svenstaro> dev packages are purely a debian thing though
20120824 22:03:16< svenstaro> pretty much their problem
20120824 22:03:40< mordante> great attitude towards Debian :-|
20120824 22:04:16< mordante> your patch also fails if somebody only installed the wesnothd package
20120824 22:07:43< lipkab> svenstaro: By the way, Arch is pretty much the only distro which does *not* have dev packages :P
20120824 22:08:00< celticminstrel> Isn't Debian the one that never has up-to-date packages?
20120824 22:08:13< celticminstrel> Or one of the ones, at least.
20120824 22:08:41< mordante> celticminstrel, debian unstable has up-to-date packages most of the time
20120824 22:08:55< mordante> Debian stable often lags behind
20120824 22:08:59< celticminstrel> Wait, so Debian comes in two flavours.
20120824 22:09:22< lipkab> Three, actually.
20120824 22:09:30< celticminstrel> Blargh.
20120824 22:09:34< mordante> actually it has stable, testing, unstable and experimental although the latter is not a real flavour
20120824 22:10:04< mordante> so you can choose how much you like to be on the bleeding edge
20120824 22:10:43< mordante> much like that Redhat has RHEL, which also lags behind
20120824 22:11:07< mordante> and on servers you rather have more matured software instead of bleeding edge
20120824 22:11:26< celticminstrel> No
20120824 22:11:44< celticminstrel> I'd rather have up-to-date software, though not necessarily bleeding edge.
20120824 22:12:02< celticminstrel> If "matured" means "a year or three old", then that's not what I want at all.
20120824 22:12:34< lipkab> celticminstrel: (And, just to be clear, dev package doesn't mean package of development releases in this context.)
20120824 22:12:34< svenstaro> lipkab: there is no real reason to have dev packages nowadays
20120824 22:12:56< lipkab> svenstaro: That doesn't change the fact that most distros have it :P
20120824 22:13:01< Ivanovic> svenstaro: there is for embedded platforms with a limited space in the nand
20120824 22:13:21< Ivanovic> on those by default you don't have a compiler so got no need for header files either
20120824 22:13:29< Ivanovic> and every saved MB is worth something there
20120824 22:13:50< Ivanovic> don't forget that there are linux systems not only on desktops/laptops/server
20120824 22:13:50< mordante> celticminstrel, on a server I rather have well tested software and I don't mind that means a few years behind
20120824 22:13:52< celticminstrel> My assumption was that "dev package" meant "package for developers", so for example things like header files or source code or whatever.
20120824 22:14:23< mordante> celticminstrel, and judging by how well Redhat is doing their customers also seem to prefer it that way
20120824 22:14:32< celticminstrel> Well, I do mind that it's a few years behind. A few months or even half a year behind would be okay, but not several years.
20120824 22:14:51< mordante> for a server or for your desktop?
20120824 22:14:54< celticminstrel> Either.
20120824 22:15:07< Ivanovic> celticminstrel: for a server stability is what counts
20120824 22:15:12< Ivanovic> everything else is a bonus
20120824 22:15:12< celticminstrel> For the desktop I might go for bleeding edge if there's notable advantages to that.
20120824 22:15:33< celticminstrel> Yes, but usually these newer things are still stable.
20120824 22:15:41< svenstaro> well then you guys solve that problem
20120824 22:15:45< celticminstrel> If it was a very high-traffic server I might reconsider.
20120824 22:15:46< svenstaro> I solved the problem in a simple distro
20120824 22:15:51< svenstaro> that doesnt do unnecessary stuff
20120824 22:16:20< svenstaro> for distros that think splitting 40kb is worth the trouble, different measures need to be undertaken
20120824 22:17:03< celticminstrel> (Of course, for some software there's also the case when some of the new things are actually security fixes and then lagging several years behind isn't such a good idea.)
20120824 22:17:44< mordante> celticminstrel, that's why you pay Redhat, they backport that fix to the stable release
20120824 22:17:51< celticminstrel> Hah.
20120824 22:18:45< mordante> svenstaro, it only works if you install game or tests as well else your patch _will_ fail
20120824 22:20:50< lipkab> celticminstrel: Your assumption was right, but then I don't understand why did "dev packages are a Debian thing only" made you ask "Isn't Debian the one that never has up-to-date packages?" :P Or should I not assume a relation between the two? ;)
20120824 22:21:17< celticminstrel> I think the latter (not assuming a relationship between the statements).
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20120824 23:02:12< svenstaro> meh
20120824 23:02:18< svenstaro> well you guys fix that patch then
20120824 23:02:55< svenstaro> it works for my purposes at least
20120824 23:03:02< svenstaro> which is better than before
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--- Log closed Sat Aug 25 00:00:54 2012