--- Log opened Tue Aug 28 00:00:10 2012
--- Day changed Tue Aug 28 2012
20120828 00:00:10< celticminstrel> Can I see your invocation of msgfmt? My manpage is kinda confusing.
20120828 00:00:23< celticminstrel> PM is fine.
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20120828 00:06:54< Espreon> Necrosporus: No, you're using the standard scheme.
20120828 00:12:47< Necrosporus> I'm pretty sure I was doing something wrong, wmlxgettext was generating file with few line missing
20120828 00:13:17< Necrosporus> But I have added it manually and everything translatible is now translated
20120828 00:16:14< Necrosporus> Maybe because of python?
20120828 00:17:40< shadowm> The Python version of wmlxgettext is not supported.
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20120828 00:18:35< Necrosporus> Why is it coming with game itself then?
20120828 00:19:05< shadowm> Because we didn't care.
20120828 00:21:23< Necrosporus> Is it going to be fixed?
20120828 00:21:29< shadowm> Probably not.
20120828 00:22:04< celticminstrel> Anyone object to replacing this huge table with a bulleted list? http://wiki.wesnoth.org/UnitTypeWML
20120828 00:22:46< shadowm> celticminstrel: By all means, do it.
20120828 00:22:59< shadowm> If anyone objects then they'd also object to pretty much every other reference page on the wiki.
20120828 00:23:06< celticminstrel> Oh?
20120828 00:23:15< celticminstrel> Because they all use bulleted lists?
20120828 00:23:43< shadowm> What do you think? :)
20120828 00:24:08< shadowm> e.g. http://wiki.wesnoth.org/DirectActionsWML http://wiki.wesnoth.org/InternalActionsWML http://wiki.wesnoth.org/StandardUnitFilter
20120828 00:25:49 * celticminstrel starts doing it, then realizes regex would help a lot here.
20120828 00:26:11< shadowm> You can copy and paste it all to a file and work with that file before submitting.
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20120828 00:26:18< celticminstrel> Exactly.
20120828 00:41:22< celticminstrel> Can someone confirm the last sentence for [base_unit] here? http://wiki.wesnoth.org/UnitTypeWML#Other_tags
20120828 00:44:05< shadowm> I have seen that being the case so far.
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20120828 00:59:30< celticminstrel> I think [end_turn] as ActionWML breaks replays.
20120828 01:07:32< celticminstrel> It's easy to fix the save file, as it turns out.
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20120828 02:08:17< celticminstrel> Why is it recommended not to make your addon dependent on WLP?
20120828 02:08:45< shadowm> I'm guessing anonymissimus would be able to answer that since he maintains WLP.
20120828 02:09:03< celticminstrel> With Elvish_Hunter, right?
20120828 02:09:14< shadowm> Yes.
20120828 02:09:45< celticminstrel> On the other hand, I do only need one tag, so maybe it's a little pointless to include all the WLP tags...
20120828 02:09:54< celticminstrel> s/need/want/
20120828 02:10:22< shadowm> I for one prefer full control over all my add-on's code.
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20120828 04:41:57< celticminstrel> Hm. How to make an event that triggers on the start of any dusk turn… [filter_condition][have_unit][filter_location]time_of_day_id=dusk?
20120828 04:42:09< celticminstrel> That feels overly convoluted...
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20120828 06:09:19< celticminstrel> Argh, this isn't working for some reason.
20120828 06:11:47< celticminstrel> If anyone is around… http://pastebin.com/1rRqnJDn
20120828 06:24:22< celticminstrel> Ooh, seems like it was probably just a typo.
20120828 06:28:52< celticminstrel> Hm, but still not working… :|
20120828 06:35:12< shadowm> celticminstrel: WML arrays are based at index zero.
20120828 06:35:36< shadowm> If you want to pick a random subscript, it should be between 0 and $($array.length - 1) .
20120828 06:36:21< celticminstrel> …okay, that could be an issue, but… I don't think it explains the discrepancy.
20120828 06:36:31< celticminstrel> I fixed the "next_next" type already.
20120828 06:36:36< shadowm> Your set_variables can probably use to_variable instead.
20120828 06:37:10< celticminstrel> Oh hey, it does support that. I'll try it.
20120828 06:37:12< shadowm> That is, to_variable=possible_nests[$next_nest] instead of the [insert_tag] thing.
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20120828 06:40:10< celticminstrel> Hm. It's storing the correct x coordinate but the wrong y coordinate… :S
20120828 06:40:36< celticminstrel> Wait no.
20120828 06:40:46< shadowm> $next_next vs. $next_nest
20120828 06:41:01< celticminstrel> My debug must be showing the wrong y coordinate because they're not all in a vertical line,
20120828 06:41:05< celticminstrel> What you just said.
20120828 06:41:32< celticminstrel> Okay, looks like it works now.
20120828 06:41:39< celticminstrel> At least, that part does.
20120828 06:42:16< celticminstrel> I think...
20120828 06:42:38< celticminstrel> Oh, wait, yes it does, because I missed a first_time_only=yes elsewhere.
20120828 06:42:58< celticminstrel> =no I mean.
20120828 06:48:47< celticminstrel> Oh dear. I think I might have an infinite loop...
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20120828 07:33:52< celticminstrel> Blah, movement animation issues. :/
20120828 07:35:11< celticminstrel> Each frame needs to be 100ms, but that doesn't mesh well with the 150ms per hex...
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20120828 07:40:14< celticminstrel> Eh. Got something that works.
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20120828 15:30:29< celticminstrel> I now need to tackle that terrain msask that didn't work ages ago...
20120828 15:30:45< celticminstrel> Which I "fixed" by commenting out the ifdefs.
20120828 15:33:37< celticminstrel> http://pastebin.com/XKnrS55V
20120828 15:33:56< celticminstrel> It must be something small and stupid that I've done… :/
20120828 15:34:36< celticminstrel> Maybe I'll try an "old=*^*"...
20120828 15:34:55< celticminstrel> Though I think something like that is supposed to be the default?
20120828 15:40:09< celticminstrel> Moving the ifdefs inside the [rule] doesn't help...
20120828 15:43:06< celticminstrel> …oh, my other terrain mask that's supposed to vary with difficulty also fails to do so. :|
20120828 15:43:22< celticminstrel> Maybe I'd better make a forum post about this.
--- Log opened Tue Aug 28 16:00:44 2012
20120828 16:01:04-!- lobby [~wesnoth@wesnoth/bot/lobby] has joined #wesnoth
20120828 16:01:04-!- Topic for #wesnoth: Wesnoth User Channel | http://www.wesnoth.org/ | Social channel: #wesnoth-offtopic | Latest stable version: 1.10.4 | Latest development version: 1.11.0 | Public IRC logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20120828 16:01:04-!- Topic set by shadowm [~ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] [Mon Aug 27 22:18:35 2012]
20120828 16:01:04[Users #wesnoth]
20120828 16:01:04[ Akihara        ] [ Gallaecio  ] [ linduxed    ] [ shadowm       ] 
20120828 16:01:04[ apoi           ] [ hagabaka   ] [ lipkab      ] [ svenstaro     ] 
20120828 16:01:04[ celticminstrel ] [ HAL_9001   ] [ lobby       ] [ ToBeFree      ] 
20120828 16:01:04[ chimay         ] [ Haldrik    ] [ loonycyborg ] [ tswett        ] 
20120828 16:01:04[ Crendgrim      ] [ happygrue  ] [ MadMerlin3  ] [ vultraz       ] 
20120828 16:01:04[ crimson_penguin] [ horon      ] [ matthiaskrgr] [ vultraz_laptop] 
20120828 16:01:04[ csarmi         ] [ hulavuta   ] [ melinath    ] [ wesbot        ] 
20120828 16:01:04[ dkkrg          ] [ Ivanovic   ] [ mich-       ] [ Xjs|moonshine ] 
20120828 16:01:04[ elias          ] [ iwaim_     ] [ Muad_Dibber ] [ zookeeper     ] 
20120828 16:01:04[ enchilado      ] [ JackBauer24] [ Necrosporus ] 
20120828 16:01:04[ Espreon        ] [ janebot    ] [ notdan      ] 
20120828 16:01:04[ fendrin_       ] [ knotwork   ] [ Rhonda      ] 
20120828 16:01:04-!- Irssi: #wesnoth: Total of 45 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 45 normal]
20120828 16:01:04-!- Home page for #wesnoth: http://www.wesnoth.org
20120828 16:01:12< celticminstrel> And back. I assume.
20120828 16:01:19-!- Soliton [~Soliton@wesnoth/developer/soliton] has joined #wesnoth
20120828 16:01:29-!- Channel #wesnoth created Sun Nov 26 07:42:43 2006
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20120828 16:14:10< Necrosporus> http://storage6.static.itmages.ru/i/12/0828/h_1346162889_6314115_d2163d4c8e.png
20120828 16:14:21< Necrosporus> Attack icon for mosquito
20120828 16:14:27< Necrosporus> Is it fine?
20120828 16:15:21< zookeeper> looks like a magic wand with two whiskers
20120828 16:15:48< celticminstrel> Maybe make wings less transparent?
20120828 16:15:53< Necrosporus> It's meant to be mosquito proboscis
20120828 16:15:56< Necrosporus> There are no wings
20120828 16:16:02< celticminstrel> Oh...
20120828 16:16:09 * celticminstrel looks again.
20120828 16:16:38< celticminstrel> Um… it doesn't really look dragonfly-ish.
20120828 16:16:44< elias> what's the purple ball?
20120828 16:17:18 * zookeeper facepalms
20120828 16:17:20< zookeeper> dudes
20120828 16:17:36< celticminstrel> ?
20120828 16:18:09< Necrosporus> http://storage7.static.itmages.ru/i/12/0828/h_1346163339_9306829_1ff8059593.png Better?
20120828 16:18:24< celticminstrel> Looks the same to me...
20120828 16:19:03< zookeeper> guy posts an attack icon for a mosquito, and one of you says it doesn't look like a dragonfly and the other doesn't figure out that what it depicts is a mosquito's mouthpart
20120828 16:19:24< celticminstrel> Oh.
20120828 16:19:26< celticminstrel> XD
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20120828 16:20:02< celticminstrel> I can see the mosquito-ness now, though I'm not sure it's clear enough.
20120828 16:20:32< Necrosporus> Maybe any advices?
20120828 16:20:47< celticminstrel> I was confused by the fact that he was posting dragonflies yesterday.
20120828 16:24:18< Necrosporus> Yeah, and they are to be designed
20120828 16:24:28< Necrosporus> But do you think this attack icon is fine?
20120828 16:24:47< Necrosporus> Would it be included to mainline if there were mosquitos?
20120828 16:25:00< celticminstrel> I think it's okay. Context may be enough to figure out what it's showing.
20120828 16:25:12< celticminstrel> I may even consider using it myself.
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20120828 16:32:52< Necrosporus> recognision persantage is too low
20120828 16:33:07< Necrosporus> Only one of respondents said it's mosquito head immediately
20120828 16:38:05< Necrosporus> http://storage7.static.itmages.ru/i/12/0828/h_1346164488_7113665_500ecf1af4.png is this version better?
20120828 16:38:57< zookeeper> shifting it down and the right by 2-3 pixels doesn't change anything, really
20120828 16:39:04< zookeeper> +to
20120828 16:42:01< celticminstrel> Perhaps a bit of the body should be visible at the top left?
20120828 16:48:33< celticminstrel> …argh, I lost all my edits to wmllint.
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20120828 16:55:07< celticminstrel> Found them thanks to Time Machine, yay.
20120828 16:55:14< Necrosporus> The last version shows a bit of body
20120828 16:55:43< celticminstrel> I suppose you mean that 1-pixel line at the top?
20120828 16:56:12< celticminstrel> This time I'll put my edited versions in a different place. <_<
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20120828 16:58:22< Necrosporus> What's better, Venom Mosquito or Poison Mosquito?
20120828 16:58:32< Necrosporus> As unit name
20120828 16:58:52< celticminstrel> Not sure. I think I'd pick Poison, but Venom doesn't sound too bad.
20120828 17:03:10< Necrosporus> How to call this attack, proboscis or bite?
20120828 17:03:14< Necrosporus> or somehow else
20120828 17:03:25< Necrosporus> It should be pierce drains
20120828 17:11:01< celticminstrel> I think I called it sting.
20120828 17:11:07< celticminstrel> Though I dunno if that's best.
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20120828 17:31:44< Necrosporus> http://storage4.static.itmages.ru/i/12/0828/h_1346167771_6903506_d3c1be3f4d.png 
20120828 17:31:49< Necrosporus> Another attack icon
20120828 17:33:11< celticminstrel> Looks good.
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20120828 18:04:51< celticminstrel> This MetalKing guy is annoying.
20120828 18:09:43< zookeeper> o rly.
20120828 18:10:09< zookeeper> he posts a lot yet apparently never manages to learn any english
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20120828 18:44:30< Necrosporus> http://storage3.static.itmages.ru/i/12/0828/h_1346172128_3540892_5ef3592857.png
20120828 18:44:38< Necrosporus> Another attack icon
20120828 18:44:54< zookeeper> for the flying spaghetti monster?
20120828 18:46:27< Necrosporus> That's an idea, however its for giant reptile with tentacles %)
20120828 18:49:24< blarumyrran> I don't think reptiles have tentacles
20120828 18:49:37< Necrosporus> Some does
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20120828 18:50:43< celticminstrel> Since when?
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20120828 18:54:47< blarumyrran> Since a terrible accident in Fukushima!
20120828 18:55:23< vultraz> Necrosporus: the first icon is a bit too small, and the second looks like spaghetti :P
20120828 19:00:05< vultraz> Necrosporus: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/95558676/mist_skull.png one I made
20120828 19:01:10< Necrosporus> That's for something like ghost whail
20120828 19:01:18< Necrosporus> wail 
20120828 19:01:34< vultraz> yeah, IDK what I'm gonna use it for
20120828 19:01:45< vultraz> just thought I'd throw it out here :P
20120828 19:02:10< Necrosporus> I'd rather reuse wail icon probably...
20120828 19:02:58< blarumyrran> Ghost whale, the immortal enemy of the Ghost ship!
20120828 19:03:53 * vultraz lollss
20120828 19:05:03< celticminstrel> Heh!
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20120828 19:15:11< Necrosporus> How do I make unit immune to plague?
20120828 19:15:30< Necrosporus> I think, mosquitos are way too to be resurrected
20120828 19:15:40< Necrosporus> &* fragile
20120828 19:16:51< Necrosporus>         [effect]            apply_to=status            add=not_living
20120828 19:17:50< Necrosporus> It's not what I want to, since they are living
20120828 19:18:05< Necrosporus> But they are going to be turned into human zombies
20120828 19:18:36< Necrosporus> Which are few times stronger than mosquitos
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20120828 19:20:58< celticminstrel> I think you can't easily make a unit immune to plague.
20120828 19:21:49< celticminstrel> You could probably do it by having an event that sets the not_living status at the beginning of an attack from a plague weapon and unsets it after the attack.
20120828 19:22:10< celticminstrel> What I did was just put "undead_variation=bat" so they'll turn into zombie bats instead.
20120828 19:22:36< Necrosporus> what if undead_variation=null ?
20120828 19:22:38< celticminstrel> It's not perfect, but at least it's the same movetype (at least with my mosquito; I dunno what movetype you gave yours).
20120828 19:22:51< celticminstrel> If it was null it'd probably use the default zombie.
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20120828 19:23:08< celticminstrel> Presumably that applies for any case where the undead variation isn't a known zombie variation.
20120828 19:23:31< Necrosporus> Do you have mosquitos?
20120828 19:23:40< Necrosporus> May you share it?
20120828 19:23:44< celticminstrel> Come to think of it, the primary issue with the way zombies are done is that add-ons can't add new variations.
20120828 19:23:55< celticminstrel> I do; I took the sprites from the Swamplings campaign.
20120828 19:24:07< celticminstrel> I'll probably put it on the add-on server in an hour or two.
20120828 19:24:10< Necrosporus> Maybe you would like my sprites better?
20120828 19:24:21< Necrosporus> It's going to be animated
20120828 19:24:23< celticminstrel> There's just one bug I'm sort of hoping to fix first...
20120828 19:24:45< Necrosporus> http://storage7.static.itmages.ru/i/12/0828/h_1346171035_3914921_d94cce3b45.png
20120828 19:24:52< celticminstrel> The Swamplings one is animated. I'm satisfied with it. Yours would have to be exponentially better for me to switch.
20120828 19:25:07< Necrosporus> Animated?
20120828 19:25:10< celticminstrel> Yours is nice, but not better (about the same probably).
20120828 19:25:31< celticminstrel> The Swamplings one is a little bigger, which I actually like.
20120828 19:25:50< celticminstrel> Hm?
20120828 19:26:21< Necrosporus> You may like my proboscis
20120828 19:26:32< celticminstrel> The attack icon? Yeah, I may use that.
20120828 19:26:49< celticminstrel> Currently I'm using the bat fangs icon, which isn't ideal.
20120828 19:27:13< Necrosporus> May you share your code somehow?
20120828 19:27:34< Necrosporus> I'm going to make three softs of mosquitos
20120828 19:27:40< celticminstrel> Softs?
20120828 19:27:40< celticminstrel> 3.
20120828 19:27:42< celticminstrel> Sorts?
20120828 19:27:48< celticminstrel> (Ignore the 3.)
20120828 19:28:25< Necrosporus> Usual ones, poison ones (which are not actually mosquito) and plague ones, which are like malaria, but worse
20120828 19:29:11< Necrosporus> So it's poison basically, but it kills and turns into zombie
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20120828 19:29:20< Necrosporus> Also can't be cured in vilage
20120828 19:30:13< celticminstrel> I went with poison ones.
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20120828 19:31:44< Necrosporus> Poison ones can shout chitinous darts with poison
20120828 19:32:00< celticminstrel> I got impatient and uploaded it earlier than I planned, so if you want to look at the mosquito you can get it from the add-on server (it's DruidSiege).
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20120828 20:10:04< Necrosporus> celticminstrel, why not to add halo to ones who illuminate?
20120828 20:10:19< Necrosporus> like of mages of light
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20120828 20:43:38< celticminstrel> Necrosporus: Hm?
20120828 20:44:04< Necrosporus> celticminstrel, there are initiates who illuminate terrain
20120828 20:44:10< celticminstrel> Oh that.
20120828 20:44:26< celticminstrel> Main reason is because they don't illuminate it as much as a mage of light.
20120828 20:44:38< Necrosporus> Than make the halo dimmer
20120828 20:44:49< celticminstrel> So just slapping on the normal illuminates aura would be misleading.
20120828 20:45:05< celticminstrel> And I hadn't gotten around to looking into making a custom halo or tweaking the normal one.
20120828 20:45:05< Necrosporus> Also how much do they illuminate?
20120828 20:45:13< celticminstrel> 15% if I recall correctly.
20120828 20:45:54< celticminstrel> You can see if you put a lawful or chaotic unit next to them and check the bonus by hovering over the weapon damage.
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20120828 20:46:37< celticminstrel> In any case, I probably won't do it until 1.11 where there's an [effect] that can change halos.
20120828 20:47:21< celticminstrel> (Does this mean you're playing the campaign?)
20120828 20:49:42< celticminstrel> The mosquitoes are only a minor flavour role in scenarios 6 and 8.
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20120828 21:04:20< Necrosporus> celticminstrel, I started it and played till scout return
20120828 21:04:43< celticminstrel> I see.
20120828 21:04:58< Necrosporus> how do you see?
20120828 21:05:28< celticminstrel> In this context that means something like "I understand".
20120828 21:05:29< Necrosporus> Also... have I copy image art I use from mainline campaign?
20120828 21:06:03< Necrosporus> I probably want to use ants from UtBS
20120828 21:06:14< celticminstrel> If it's from a mainline campaign and being used in an add-on campaign, I suppose it may be safe to not copy it, but I think I'd recommend copying it anyway just in case.
20120828 21:06:34< celticminstrel> Did you have anything else to say about mine?
20120828 21:07:50< Necrosporus> Maybe make more of initiates found in villages loyal
20120828 21:11:37< celticminstrel> I had some thoughts about that and ended up going with non-loyal because a) having too many loyal units isn't good and b) the only real reason to make them loyal would be for the lack of upkeep costs, but they're level 0 so they don't have upkeep anyway.
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20120828 21:13:13< Necrosporus> celticminstrel, why having to many loyal units isn't good?
20120828 21:13:51< celticminstrel> Because it makes it too easy?
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20120828 21:14:09< Necrosporus> but at least one with each special?
20120828 21:14:24< celticminstrel> That's five loyal initiates.
20120828 21:14:56< celticminstrel> I'll keep your suggestion in mind, though.
20120828 21:17:42< Necrosporus> You may add more loyal initiates later
20120828 21:17:47< Necrosporus> with said specials
20120828 21:19:16< Necrosporus> id=Giant Mosquito
20120828 21:19:27< Necrosporus> celticminstrel, are you sure you want it be this way?
20120828 21:19:45< Necrosporus> It may interfere with giant mosquitos found in other addons, may it not?
20120828 21:20:14< celticminstrel> No.
20120828 21:20:22< celticminstrel> Campaigns can only conflict with core.
20120828 21:20:33< celticminstrel> Unique prefixes are needed for eras, but not for campaigns.
20120828 21:20:35< Necrosporus> Mine is call like "saurrian mosquito_giant" for avoiding collision
20120828 21:20:50< celticminstrel> That's fine; it doesn't actually matter what it's called.
20120828 21:21:07< Necrosporus> maybe though I should change its name
20120828 21:22:09< celticminstrel> I probably wouldn't bother. If you look in one of the files you'll see there's an id=Giant Toad but name=_"Giant Frog" because I changed the name and didn't bother changing the ID. :P
20120828 21:22:24< celticminstrel> Still, it's up to you. :)
20120828 21:30:46< Necrosporus> Can I make unit which is weaker than 0 lvl?
20120828 21:31:00< Necrosporus> And doesn't let you get xp for killing
20120828 21:31:18< Necrosporus> I see there are modifier for map
20120828 21:31:21< Necrosporus> but for unit?
20120828 21:36:53< celticminstrel> I don't think you can...
20120828 21:37:38< Necrosporus> Why is wesnoth so unflexible?
20120828 21:38:35< Necrosporus> It should have been initially made flexible as possible
20120828 21:38:58< Crendgrim> "unflexible" also is a new term to describe one of the most powerful open source game engines out there...
20120828 21:39:42< Necrosporus> It's powerfull, but not enough
20120828 21:40:33< Necrosporus> Crendgrim, so if I'm wrong (I hope I am), can you point me out, how do I make an unit which doesn't give xp to killers
20120828 21:40:41< Necrosporus> and which is immune to plague
20120828 21:41:01< Necrosporus> but not immune to poison or other stuff (thus not not_living)
20120828 21:42:40< Crendgrim> that's actually interesting.
20120828 21:44:12< Necrosporus> Also how do I add custom undead variations for my new units?
20120828 21:44:17< celticminstrel> You don't.
20120828 21:44:40< celticminstrel> Or, you recreate the entire Dark Adept and Walking Corpse line.
20120828 21:44:47< celticminstrel> ^lines
20120828 21:44:48< Necrosporus> celticminstrel, I have heard, but since wesnoth is so powerfull we probably have
20120828 21:44:53< Necrosporus> dark adept?
20120828 21:44:54< Necrosporus> Why?
20120828 21:44:57< Crendgrim> celticminstrel: there actually is a "undead_variation=" key for [unit_type] ...
20120828 21:45:04< Necrosporus> yes
20120828 21:45:10< Crendgrim> though I'm not too sure how that works
20120828 21:45:14< celticminstrel> Because it levels up to a Necromancer which has a plague staff.
20120828 21:45:14< Necrosporus> But what if want custom one
20120828 21:45:23< Crendgrim> regarding the no EXP, I would try something with a "last breath" event
20120828 21:45:39< celticminstrel> The undead_variation is useful, but it won't help you define the variations in the Walking Corpse unit_type.
20120828 21:46:18< celticminstrel> And the immune to plague can probably done by temporarily granting not_living status in an attack event and removing it in an attack end event.
20120828 21:46:18< Necrosporus> http://storage5.static.itmages.ru/i/12/0828/h_1346182683_9763424_c68dff2301.png
20120828 21:46:23< Necrosporus> New attack icon
20120828 21:46:37< celticminstrel> I'm not sure what it is.
20120828 21:47:08< Espreon> It's either a syringe's needle or a mosquito's proboscis.
20120828 21:47:15< Crendgrim> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/WML_Abilities#Immune_to_drain_or_plague_or_poison
20120828 21:48:43< Necrosporus> I'd say, that's a crutch
20120828 21:48:51< celticminstrel> ?
20120828 21:49:13< Necrosporus> There should be straight forward ways for everything
20120828 21:49:21< Necrosporus> Not making unit temporary undead
20120828 21:49:39< Necrosporus> There should be all specials moved out of wml itself
20120828 21:50:00< celticminstrel> It's not making it undead.
20120828 21:50:37< celticminstrel> It's making it nonliving.
20120828 21:50:45< Necrosporus>     [status]           not_living=yes
20120828 21:50:53< Necrosporus> Anyway, it even sounds stupid
20120828 21:51:02< celticminstrel> Does it? Why?
20120828 21:51:23< Necrosporus> because event should not make unit not living temporarily
20120828 21:52:03< zookeeper> yeah, that's how wesnoth is. tough.
20120828 21:53:32< Necrosporus> Also it still doesn't work against weapons with multiple specials
20120828 21:53:46< zookeeper> it's kinda obvious that the engine "should" be more flexible, pointing it out isn't of any interest to anyone really.
20120828 21:54:16< Necrosporus> Not really, I haven't released that until now.
20120828 21:54:58< Necrosporus> There are a lot of non-universal decisions in engine
20120828 21:55:32< zookeeper> yes! yes there are! everyone knows it!
20120828 21:55:57< Necrosporus> I didn't know until I started trying to make something myself
20120828 21:56:28< Necrosporus> I thought I can do everything in clear and obvious way since I lean WML
20120828 21:57:08< zookeeper> everyone == everyone who might be or have been able to actually do something about it
20120828 21:57:18< Necrosporus> And now I discovered, I can't even make unit immune to plague or to add alternative variation to zombie and walking corpses
20120828 21:57:23< zookeeper> dunno why you'd ever think that though
20120828 21:57:33< zookeeper> game engines are extremely rarely _that_ flexible
20120828 21:57:42< zookeeper> ones which are as easy to mod as wesnoth, anyway
20120828 21:58:11< zookeeper> of course you can. you're simply complaining that you can't do it in a particularly straightforward and easy way.
20120828 21:58:19< Necrosporus> "Others are worse" is not an argument
20120828 21:58:27< zookeeper> it wasn't an argument
20120828 21:59:13< Necrosporus> Even if engines are rarely that flexible it should not stop Wesnoth from being flexible
20120828 21:59:23< zookeeper> it doesn't
20120828 21:59:57< zookeeper> the lack of volunteers to actually make it so very flexible does
20120828 22:01:41< Soliton> there is also the point of actually getting stuff done instead of making the perfect engine in 10 years.
20120828 22:02:10< zookeeper> well that too. the flexibility of the engine ought to be secondary to the needs of the core game.
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20120828 22:02:26< zookeeper> although frankly that's usually not been the case
20120828 22:03:57< celticminstrel> You can add alternative variations to the walking corpse by copying the walking corpse and necromancer lines into your own addon (minus the lich) or even by just copying the walking corpse, soulless, and necromancer together with a little trickery to make dark sorcerer advance to your custom necromancer instead of the default one.
20120828 22:04:03< Soliton> if you've done any programming even in a general purpose language you'd already realised that things of any remote complexity can rarely be done in clear and obvious ways.
20120828 22:04:52< celticminstrel> That may be an argument for redesigning the basic principle of how the walking corpse works, though.
20120828 22:05:32< celticminstrel> On a related not, I'm guessing undead_variation= is used for any type of plague attack?
20120828 22:05:40< celticminstrel> Including custom ones.
20120828 22:05:53< Necrosporus> celticminstrel, there's plague for vampires
20120828 22:06:02< Necrosporus> Count Kromire campaign
20120828 22:06:28< Necrosporus> it turns unit into lvl0 vampires instead of corpses
20120828 22:06:33< celticminstrel> So, to make up an example, if you have a plague attack the turns victims into a giant worm, and the giant worm had the same variation set as the walking corpse, all default units would react as expected to that plague attack.
20120828 22:06:47< celticminstrel> ^note
20120828 22:06:48< celticminstrel> .
20120828 22:07:22< zookeeper> celticminstrel, err, it sounds like you got it backwards
20120828 22:07:38< zookeeper> undead_variation tells which WC variation the unit becomes if killed by plague
20120828 22:07:57< zookeeper> ok, so... on second though, yeah, you got it right
20120828 22:08:01< zookeeper> thought
20120828 22:09:29< celticminstrel> And trying to set a nonexistent variation is equivalent to setting the default variation.
20120828 22:09:58< zookeeper> most likely
20120828 22:11:08< celticminstrel> Wiki was misleading on this point, implying it should be an image.
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20120828 22:25:10< Necrosporus> Giant dragonflies are living relics of ancient ages, distant progeny of Carboniferous insects
20120828 22:25:18< Necrosporus> Is this description fine?
20120828 22:25:30< Necrosporus> Someone really should help me with unit descriptions
20120828 22:25:53< zookeeper> no one knows what carboniferous insects are, nor do i see any reason why they'd need to be living relics
20120828 22:27:22< Necrosporus> You may offer better description for giant dragonfly unit than
20120828 22:27:40< Necrosporus> http://storage6.static.itmages.ru/i/12/0828/h_1346098526_6894251_c31ce33c6a.jpeg
20120828 22:27:42< celticminstrel> I assume by "no-one" you mean "no Wesnoth character".
20120828 22:28:37< zookeeper> no, i meant "most people who play the game"
20120828 22:28:48< zookeeper> and no, i won't offer a better one :p
20120828 22:36:00< celticminstrel> Ah.
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20120828 22:40:45< Necrosporus> http://storage8.static.itmages.ru/i/12/0829/h_1346185909_6702346_4112261ba4.png
20120828 22:40:59< Necrosporus> http://storage9.static.itmages.ru/i/12/0829/h_1346185909_9260661_05b03a79b6.png
20120828 22:43:43< Necrosporus> celticminstrel, few more proboscises
20120828 22:43:54< celticminstrel> I see that.
20120828 22:49:12< Necrosporus> Giant dragonflies are living relics of ancient ages, when insects ruled the land, just a shadow of their former greatness
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20120828 22:49:15< Necrosporus> Better?
20120828 22:50:35< celticminstrel> It works.
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--- Log closed Wed Aug 29 00:00:39 2012