--- Log opened Sun Sep 16 00:00:36 2012
20120916 00:05:16< zookeeper> mmkay
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20120916 02:02:47< SpoOkyMagician> is there anyway around this? {LOG ("{~" + "add-ons/REPLACE_ME/utils" + "}") this gives me an error because it thinks its a macro but i just want to output this line. I tried without string concatenating but that didnt work either.
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20120916 02:07:12< SpoOkyMagician> I want to output "{~add-ons/REPLACE_ME/utils"}"
20120916 02:07:22< SpoOkyMagician> oops ignore the "
20120916 02:21:14< SpoOkyMagician> eh, ill see if i can figure it out when i get back
20120916 02:23:03< CIA-107> jamit * r55305 /trunk/src/actions/attack.cpp: More function re-ordering. Better match with the header file now.
20120916 02:25:14< SpoOkyMagician> whoops... thats why it didnt work...
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20120916 02:29:13< CIA-107> jamit * r55306 /trunk/src/actions/attack.cpp: Use NULL instead of 0 for pointers.
20120916 02:50:06< CIA-107> ai0867 * r55307 /trunk/data/tools/wesnoth/wescamp.py: Correct a comment about __del__() usage in globals in python
20120916 02:50:06< CIA-107> ai0867 * r55308 /trunk/data/tools/wesnoth/libgithub.py: Make at most 1 temporary build-system clone and get rid of it when you're done
20120916 02:52:48< AI0867> fendrin: how are the plans for WESDGM?
20120916 02:54:18< AI0867> fendin: do you have any existing usecases of vision/jamming? Code tends to rot without those
20120916 02:55:00< AI0867> also, I'm a bit concerned about the (seeming lack of) visualization
20120916 02:55:54< fendrin> AI0867: Hello
20120916 02:57:03< fendrin> AI0867: Yes, I have existing use cases. Alarantalara commited one into UtBS. 
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20120916 02:59:56< fendrin> AI0867: I am working on the visualization, the code needs some cleanup.
20120916 03:00:45< fendrin> AI0867: About the WESDGM, I have rooms for working, not for sleeping but I am not sure when to find time.
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20120916 03:26:06< jamit> If a weapon has the [swarm] special, then any [attacks] specials are ignored. Is this intended? Or should one of these modify the other?
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20120916 03:27:01< jamit> I'm currently leaning towards apply [attacks], then base [swarm] off of that, but I'm not sure what would make the most sense.
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20120916 03:33:08< AI0867> jamit: see lines 197 through 214 in src/actions/attack.cpp
20120916 03:33:34< AI0867> the code assumes you're only going to use one
20120916 03:33:48< jamit> I saw those lines. That's how I realized they don't stack. ;)
20120916 04:09:02< AI0867> jamit: well, I'll have a patch for you once I finish compiling, if you're interested in testing
20120916 04:11:27< jamit> Sure, I guess. I won't do it myself then. (I was just waiting on finding out what was supposed to happen.)
20120916 04:12:32< AI0867> http://pastebin.com/CV5zd1Bk
20120916 04:17:40< jamit> Yeah, that looks like it would do the job. Still need to compile and test though.
20120916 04:22:44< AI0867> it compiles for me, but I don't have a testcase lying around
20120916 04:24:23< jamit> Looks like it's working.
20120916 04:25:50< AI0867> does it also work properly for regular swarm and [attacks] stuff?
20120916 04:28:00< jamit> Oops. Missed the regular swarm test case. One moment...
20120916 04:30:48< jamit> Yes, regular swarm is still working.
20120916 04:36:31< AI0867> [attacks] too?
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20120916 04:39:33< CIA-107> ai0867 * r55309 /trunk/src/actions/attack.cpp: Make [attacks] and [swarm] weapon specials stack (spotted by jamit)
20120916 04:40:02< jamit> Yes, I checked regular [attacks] in the first tests.
20120916 04:40:06< AI0867> k =)
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20120916 04:41:20< jamit> I've got the relevant wiki page open, so I'll update that.
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20120916 13:55:04< fendrin> Hello
20120916 13:55:26< vultraz> hey
20120916 13:57:44< fendrin> hi vultraz
20120916 13:58:16< fendrin> I am currently messing up the hotkeys system.
20120916 13:58:54< fendrin> hotkeys can only bind one event to a function.
20120916 13:59:31< fendrin> That is not enough if you also want to bind joystick buttons or extra mouse keys.
20120916 14:01:07< vultraz> isn't joystick support disabled?
20120916 14:01:43< fendrin> Yes it is.
20120916 14:02:20< fendrin> Well, no. You can enable it easily. Just the gui of wesnoth does not support the configuration which must be done with a text editor.
20120916 14:04:46< fendrin> vultraz: But mouse support isn't disabled. I coded hotkey support for mouse buttons. The player can bind hotkeys to mouse buttons. My old mice features 2 additional ones that are not used by wesnoth in any way.
20120916 14:05:16< fendrin> I thought there is no point in hardcoding them but making them available through the hotkeys configuration system is the way to go.
20120916 14:06:03< fendrin> After finishing the work I thought that most keys named 7 and 8 on mice are the two navigation buttons on the side, where you can go forward and backward on a website for example.
20120916 14:06:23< fendrin> I would have loved to bind them to next and previous unit by default.
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20120916 14:08:32< fendrin> But doing so removes the keyboard binding of those functions.
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20120916 14:29:25< fendrin> hi timotei
20120916 14:29:40< timotei> hello fendrin 
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20120916 17:11:31< lipkab> boucman: Around?
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20120916 17:43:16< fendrin> hi Alarantalara
20120916 17:43:37< Alarantalara> hello
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20120916 18:52:42< fendrin> shadowm: hi, I am currently working on the hotkey preferences dialog. Do you want to get asked about the gui layout?
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20120916 19:03:24< boucman> lipkab: just came back
20120916 19:05:25< fendrin> hi boucman
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20120916 19:06:25< boucman> hey
20120916 19:09:56< fendrin> boucman: Do you want to discuss a little about interface design?
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20120916 19:12:06< boucman> fendrin: ok, but why are you asking me ?
20120916 19:14:30< fendrin> boucman: Well, there is more around it and you are firm on multiple fields.
20120916 19:14:45< boucman> ok
20120916 19:15:06< fendrin> My mouse has 2 buttons that are not supported by Wesnoth.
20120916 19:15:24< fendrin> I have seen gaming mouses with 10+ extra buttons.
20120916 19:16:29< boucman> wesbot: seen mordante
20120916 19:16:29< wesbot> boucman: The person with the nick mordante last spoke 15d 21h ago.  15d 21h ago was here and on the channel #wesnoth-de with the message: Quit: Leaving
20120916 19:16:58< fendrin> In order to make them work I added support for mouse buttons just like I added support for joystick buttons in the whole hotkeys mechanism.
20120916 19:17:52< fendrin> The problem is that Wesnoth's actions can only be bound to one of the hotkeys.
20120916 19:18:50< fendrin> Thus if I assign the "next unit" function to a mouse button the key "n" is no longer assigned.
20120916 19:19:16< fendrin> Same problem with the joystick buttons.
20120916 19:19:22< boucman> ok
20120916 19:19:39< fendrin> I think almost all games support assigning multiple buttons/keys to the same action.
20120916 19:20:01< fendrin> If those things are customizable.
20120916 19:21:40< fendrin> gui wise, I thought it is enough to just change the "Change Hotkey" button to a "Add Binding" one.
20120916 19:22:05< fendrin> Thus you can add more than one binding to an item.
20120916 19:22:24< fendrin> If you want to really change it, use clear first.
20120916 19:22:52< boucman> I agree that allowing multiple bindings make sense, since the bindings are not just keyboards
20120916 19:23:09< boucman> as for the ergonomics of the pref screen, I don't think they are criticall, 
20120916 19:23:22< boucman> but if you have an add-binding you need a remove-binding too
20120916 19:23:46< fendrin> Sure?
20120916 19:24:05< fendrin> We speak about one, two maybe three items at most per action.
20120916 19:24:08< boucman> about which part of my response ?
20120916 19:24:26< fendrin> Do we really need a remove binding?
20120916 19:24:59< boucman> hmm, gimme a minute to test what we currently have
20120916 19:25:13< fendrin> sure :-)
20120916 19:26:03< boucman> ok, here is a gui idea (I don't know much about guui code, so it might not be easy, it's just an idea
20120916 19:27:11< boucman> add 2 more shortcut colums, and when someone clicks in a cell (instead of a line like is currently the case) modify that particular shortcut
20120916 19:27:54< boucman> as for deletion, change the message when changing a key from "... press escape to cancel" to "...press escape to cancel, press delete to supress shortcut"
20120916 19:28:06< fendrin> uh
20120916 19:28:10< boucman> it prevents delete as a shortcut, but overal it's simple..
20120916 19:28:12< boucman> you don't like ?
20120916 19:28:21< fendrin> That would be perfect.
20120916 19:28:36< fendrin> But I guess it is miles above what can be done with the current gui1 dialog.
20120916 19:28:51< boucman> i told you I didn't know the gui code :P
20120916 19:30:50< fendrin> The problem is that single cells can't act as clickable widgets iirc.
20120916 19:31:04< boucman> can't you add a button in them ?
20120916 19:31:11< boucman> or is that gui2 only ?
20120916 19:32:40< fendrin> No, that is not possible. I think not even in gui2. 
20120916 19:32:50< boucman>  ok
20120916 19:33:32< boucman> in that case you can only modify a whole line... maybe open a popup to select which shortcut to change/erase,
20120916 19:33:33< fendrin> I thought about keeping the current dialog and just make binding a list.
20120916 19:34:45< fendrin> Maybe a button that just removes the last item of that list is enough?
20120916 19:35:30< fendrin> That can be used to correct mistakes while keeping the original binding in place, something the clear button can't do.
20120916 19:35:51< boucman> yeah, that might be enough...
20120916 19:36:22< fendrin> I have seen games that only feature the clear button, popping the list is already some kind of luxury.
20120916 19:37:03< boucman> yeah, with three it's always possible to rebuild them from memory, so it might not be such a big deal
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20120916 19:38:36< shadowm> Actually, I wrote a GUI2 dialog that had a listbox with embedded buttons once.
20120916 19:39:03< shadowm> The problem is that such a thing is clearly not officially supported, and it caused some redraw glitches.
20120916 19:42:10< fendrin> shadowm: Do you think it is worth it? Compared to my simpler proposal.
20120916 19:43:40< shadowm> I said that it's clearly not officially supported.
20120916 19:44:21< shadowm> In my experience the only way you can get something to be supported in GUI2 is to get a big name like the art director backing you up.
20120916 19:44:51< fendrin> The list thing would allow many bindings. Maybe a player wants to have a function reachable from mouse, gamepad, and two keys on the keyboard(to serve both hands).
20120916 19:45:31< shadowm> I think it's enough to allow no more than three bindings per action.
20120916 19:45:53< fendrin> Yes, should be.
20120916 19:46:06< fendrin> I never assigned more in a game myself.
20120916 19:46:57< fendrin> I can make sure that there is only one binding per category.
20120916 19:47:20< shadowm> Okay, maybe some people would want to be able to use WASD instead of the arrow keys without having to choose between either set, but I really don't think it's necessary to overcomplicate the GUI view and the hotkeys model to cater to border cases.
20120916 19:48:42< fendrin> Well, coding wise the list thing is the easiest solution. From a user point of view that is also very simple.
20120916 19:48:49< shadowm> For the GUI view, it'd probably be simpler if one could click on an action from the list and it'd automatically expand into a list of bindings without having to display yet another dialog, but I don't know if GUI2's tree view widget can do that (I have never used it) and the list widget certainly can't... not trivially, anyway.
20120916 19:49:54< shadowm> (For the list widget you could have hidden rows within the grid for each row, and toggle their visibility when the list row is selected... But although the WML syntax would suggest that you can define list rows with multiple subrows, I don't know if that works either or whether it's supported at all.)
20120916 19:51:03< shadowm> The official recommendation is not to do anything too fancy with GUI2 listboxes anyway since their implementation and interface are still in flux.
20120916 19:55:28< fendrin> The preferences is still all gui1. 
20120916 19:55:30< shadowm> Okay, no, that's not an official recommendation from anyone but me.
20120916 19:55:42< fendrin> And so is the hotkeys dialog.
20120916 19:56:00< shadowm> But I was officially recommended once to not use GUI2 listboxes at all, so there's that.
20120916 19:56:17< shadowm> I disregarded that official recommendation for the sake of progress.
20120916 19:56:41< fendrin> Every time I use GUI2 there is some trouble with mordante, so I recommend to not use gui2 at all :-)
20120916 19:57:29< shadowm> Unfortunately, it does the job better than GUI1 for various use cases, including formatted text and flexible layouts.
20120916 19:57:56< fendrin> Yes, and the api is nice to use if it already supports what you need.
20120916 19:57:59< shadowm> We have been stuck with a work-in-progress mess since 2008 and it's not our fault.
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20120916 20:00:32< fendrin> shadowm: Well, I am still in favor of using an external lib for gui stuff.
20120916 20:01:00< fendrin> A wrapper around it can provide wml support.
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20120916 22:28:05< CIA-107> ai0867 * r55310 /trunk/src/ (unit_types.hpp unit_types.cpp): Initialize unit variations when building for help
20120916 22:28:05< CIA-107> ai0867 * r55311 /trunk/src/ (help.cpp help.hpp dialogs.cpp): Add help support for unit variations
20120916 22:28:06< CIA-107> ai0867 * r55312 /trunk/data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/units/elves/Kaleh.cfg: hide most of Kaleh's variations as a proof of concept
20120916 22:33:54< AI0867> it may be preferable for unit variations to never show up in the help index. Any opinions?
20120916 22:35:53< zookeeper> i guess the argument could go either way, but personally i think they probably shouldn't be in the help
20120916 22:37:11< zookeeper> i consider variations more of an internal tool, not something that the player would really need to know about.
20120916 22:38:49< AI0867> walking corpses?
20120916 22:39:11< AI0867> that's the big usecase
20120916 22:41:09< AI0867> also, they're linked from the base unit
20120916 22:41:40< AI0867> you can look at both kaleh and the WCs in the test scenario
20120916 22:44:57< zookeeper> yeah, WC's suck :p my idea of how to deal with them would likely be to have the variations themselves not modify their stats, but give each one a _trait_ which displays the stat modifications
20120916 22:46:39< zookeeper> but no time to talk more about that right now... ->
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20120916 22:56:48< CIA-107> ai0867 * r55313 /trunk/src/gui/dialogs/chat_log.cpp: Reduce chat log pagesize to something you can scroll through
20120916 22:56:48< CIA-107> ai0867 * r55314 /trunk/scons/gettext.py: typo
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--- Log closed Mon Sep 17 00:00:40 2012