--- Log opened Sat Sep 01 00:00:10 2012
20120901 00:00:40< celticminstrel> I disliked [floating_text] because it uses utterly idiotic Pango markup.
20120901 00:00:52< celticminstrel> ^dislike
20120901 00:02:09< Necrosporus> Can I use floating text inside modify_unit tag? I guess I should take a look at its implementation
20120901 00:02:29< shadowm> No.
20120901 00:04:07< celticminstrel> I would say Pango needs about four times as many "convenience tags".
20120901 00:04:45< celticminstrel> (Though twices as many might be sufficient. Some of those attributes look rarely-used.)
20120901 00:04:48< celticminstrel> ^twice
20120901 00:06:38< Espreon> ... maybe even thrice.
20120901 00:07:02< celticminstrel> I did say four times initially. <_<
20120901 00:07:21< celticminstrel> Whoever had the idea of stuffing everything into one tag… >_<
20120901 00:07:59< shadowm> Pango is loosely based upon HTML.
20120901 00:08:05< celticminstrel> I noticed.
20120901 00:08:12< shadowm> So it's not a novel idea.
20120901 00:08:44< shadowm> Furthermore, in modern HTML you are really encouraged to use stylesheets instead of inline non-semantic formatting.
20120901 00:08:53< celticminstrel> True.
20120901 00:09:18< celticminstrel> But in modern HTML you'll still generally have only single-attribute tags (<span class='myclass'>).
20120901 00:09:39< celticminstrel> For formatting such as Pango does, at least. Obviously some tags need more attributes.
20120901 00:09:43< shadowm> Pango predates that convention.
20120901 00:10:21< shadowm> Otherwise it'd probably support stylesheet like Qt 4 does.
20120901 00:10:24< shadowm> *s
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20120901 00:11:02< celticminstrel> Why was Pango chosen, anyway?
20120901 00:17:56< Necrosporus> Seems like side_turn_refresh event is missing
20120901 00:18:34< celticminstrel> I noticed that too.
20120901 00:18:39< Necrosporus> While it's logical to be present
20120901 00:19:12< shadowm> Not really.
20120901 00:19:44< shadowm> "turn refresh" is fired for every side, so it already fulfills that role.
20120901 00:20:17< celticminstrel> Huh, really?
20120901 00:20:31< celticminstrel> Oh, the wiki does say "like side turn"..
20120901 00:20:38< celticminstrel> So I guess it does.
20120901 00:20:49< celticminstrel> Assuming the wiki is right, of course. :P
20120901 00:20:54< Necrosporus> GS is already used for stoned units
20120901 00:21:05< Necrosporus> So I probably should use other image mod
20120901 00:21:20< celticminstrel> GS?
20120901 00:21:51< shadowm> The grayscale image path function.
20120901 00:22:01< celticminstrel> Try CS>
20120901 00:22:02< celticminstrel> ?
20120901 00:23:39< Necrosporus> shadowm, also there seem no such even as unit hits, so I have to write same code twice, is there easier way to do it (since my weapon special is bidirectional)?
20120901 00:23:53< Necrosporus> for attacker hits and for defender hits
20120901 00:24:20< celticminstrel> Macros.
20120901 00:24:28< shadowm> Have the same event handlers both fire a custom event and add a handler for that custom event.
20120901 00:24:37< celticminstrel> Or that.
20120901 00:24:50< shadowm> Macros result in duplicated code at runtime, whereas custom event handlers don't.
20120901 00:24:55< celticminstrel> (I was meaning to ask sometime; does it ever make sense to check #ifdef MACRO_PARAM?)
20120901 00:25:07< shadowm> No, it does not.
20120901 00:25:18< celticminstrel> It would always be true then?
20120901 00:25:26< shadowm> I have no idea whether #ifdef even looks at local symbols, but regardless, macro arguments are always mandatory.
20120901 00:25:34< celticminstrel> Right, but they can be empty.
20120901 00:25:42< celticminstrel> I guess normal macros could be too though.
20120901 00:25:43< shadowm> They are still defined as empty symbols.
20120901 00:26:05< shadowm> Not too different from built-in conditionals like the difficulty symbols, the campaign definition symbols, or MULTIPLAYER.
20120901 00:26:12< Necrosporus> shadowm, but name for event already accepts several comma-separated names
20120901 00:26:31< shadowm> Yes, but it doesn't let you invert filters.
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20120901 00:27:07< shadowm> The attacker and defender events take filters in mutually inverse order or some nonsense like that.
20120901 00:27:21< Necrosporus> Yeah... :(
20120901 00:27:34< Necrosporus> second_unit <-> first_unit
20120901 00:27:35< celticminstrel> But when you [fire_event] you can swap the units.
20120901 00:27:38< Necrosporus> * unit
20120901 00:27:45< shadowm> Yeah, that's why I proposed fire_event.
20120901 00:27:46< Necrosporus> How?
20120901 00:27:56< Necrosporus> use temp variable?
20120901 00:27:59< celticminstrel> [primary_unit]id=$second_unit.id
20120901 00:28:07< celticminstrel> [secondary_unit]id=$unit.id
20120901 00:28:23< shadowm> [fire_event] takes two optional standard unit filters in primary_unit and secondary_unit; those become the primary and secondary unit for the invoked event handlers.
20120901 00:29:15< Necrosporus> Sounds good, this way i can remove duplicated code
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20120901 00:46:35< Necrosporus> 	    [primary_attack] syntax is not specified
20120901 00:46:41< Necrosporus> in wiki
20120901 00:47:10< Necrosporus> I guess, It's easier to filter attack in someone hits event
20120901 00:47:12< celticminstrel> See FilterWML.
20120901 00:47:21< celticminstrel> The section on weapons.
20120901 00:54:25< Necrosporus> celticminstrel, there should be something like weapon=$second_unit.weapon
20120901 00:55:56< celticminstrel> Logically it'd be something like name=$second_weapon.name… but I don't think second_weapon exists...
20120901 00:56:54< Necrosporus> Maybe I should filter attack special two times
20120901 00:57:21< Necrosporus> and don't filter it in my event
20120901 01:07:38< Necrosporus> Can I save other image mods?
20120901 01:07:51< Necrosporus> In case my infection is combined with poison
20120901 01:08:12< Necrosporus> I want to clear it separately
20120901 01:08:33< celticminstrel> This is perhaps the crus of the issue here...
20120901 01:08:50< celticminstrel> ^crux
20120901 01:08:53< celticminstrel> Stupid typos.
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20120901 01:18:55< Necrosporus> And now I broken something and code doesn't work, thus units don't get infected
20120901 01:19:56< Necrosporus> http://pastebin.com/e72WeEfL
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20120901 01:39:31< Necrosporus> shadowm, seem like using nested events was not a good idea... Was it?
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20120901 02:14:39< shadowm> Necrosporus: I don't see any nested events.
20120901 02:18:02< shadowm> Necrosporus: It should be [secondary_unit], not [second_unit].
20120901 02:18:05< shadowm> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/InternalActionsWML#.5Bfire_event.5D
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20120901 07:41:19< Necrosporus> http://pastebin.com/UtUbjaGt
20120901 07:41:52< Necrosporus> Infection code, now seem to work and visual effects are added, though probably there are some bugs
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20120901 08:31:52< ancestral> Wow
20120901 08:32:14< ancestral> Necrosporus: Looks like you spent quite some time on it!
20120901 08:35:13< Necrosporus> ancestral, yeah... I just also added code to respect gender 
20120901 08:35:35< Necrosporus> And also for undead variation = null, but second doesn't seem to work
20120901 08:38:06< Necrosporus> http://pastebin.com/SjCSqRzp
20120901 08:38:34< Necrosporus> It's same as previous paste, but also with undead variation = null checking, but doesn't seem to work
20120901 08:39:02< Necrosporus> I have a race of giant insects, there are no insect zombies, so I want them to just die
20120901 08:39:17< Necrosporus> Also insects are too fragile to be reanimated, probably
20120901 08:39:45< Necrosporus> So I want the code to don't turn insects into zombies
20120901 08:39:58< Necrosporus> But that condition doesn't seem to work
20120901 08:40:02< ancestral> I'm sure it can be done
20120901 08:40:27< Necrosporus> Ah, not_equals
20120901 08:40:35< Necrosporus> I used equals instead
20120901 08:40:44< ancestral> I hate filter and store
20120901 08:40:56< ancestral> [filter] [filter_wml] [status]
20120901 08:41:06< ancestral> That means nothing to me!
20120901 08:41:15< Necrosporus> Checking unit status
20120901 08:41:32< ancestral> Yes, it's just the semantics
20120901 08:42:03< Necrosporus> Though I wonder, why more or less imperative WML use markup language syntax?
20120901 08:42:34< Necrosporus> Won't it be easier if it was some Tcl-like language for example
20120901 08:42:37< ancestral> WML morphed into many things. It's trying to do too much
20120901 08:43:04< ancestral> It's used for config files, preprocessor macros and general programming
20120901 08:43:16< ancestral> Wayyyy too much
20120901 08:43:36< ancestral> So to answer your question, yes, probably
20120901 08:43:37< Necrosporus> equals_to should be changed into not_equals... I guess ,it should now work
20120901 08:44:06< ancestral> It just boggles my mind you would have a tag [not_equals]
20120901 08:44:19< Necrosporus> That's not a tag
20120901 08:44:29< ancestral> Element
20120901 08:44:31< ancestral> Whatever
20120901 08:44:48< ancestral> It's like writing C code spelling out "plus" when you would otherwise use the + sign
20120901 08:47:42< ancestral> Back to working on my JavaScript Wesnoth client
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20120901 11:50:38< Necrosporus> I wonder, can I make ability "cure slow" without complex events?
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20120901 11:51:16< Necrosporus> Maybe there's something in abilities allowing effects
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20120901 12:27:03< Necrosporus> Anyways, why there's no way easy way to drop object?
20120901 12:27:38< Necrosporus> Were there some object id and an action like [remove_object] to remove all the effects from units
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20120901 13:07:59< Necrosporus> Are there any ready to use bigger volcanos for Wesnoth?
20120901 13:08:11< Necrosporus> The biggest mailine one is just four hexes
20120901 13:08:55< Necrosporus> Do I have to ask someone to draw it or there are already good sprites?
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20120901 13:25:02< zookeeper> Necrosporus, there aren't
20120901 13:26:32< Necrosporus> zookeeper, well, than I guess, I have to make an artist to draw it and learn the way to put it onto map
20120901 13:27:19< zookeeper> if by "make" you mean "ask nicely and hope for the best against all odds", then sure
20120901 13:27:33< Necrosporus> And thanks for help with the code
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20120901 13:28:34< Necrosporus> http://pastebin.com/tyzvuXSA
20120901 13:28:44< Necrosporus> It's now turned into something like that
20120901 13:29:23< Necrosporus> more or less fine (though needs more testing)
20120901 13:32:09< zookeeper> great
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20120901 14:51:25< natasiel> Hey, wondering if those global WML variables could be used within a scenario definition? (eg: experience_modifier=$xp_mod)
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20120901 15:25:38< zookeeper> natasiel, so, scenario-level keys don't do variable substitution (i don't recall if there are any exceptions)
20120901 15:28:48< zookeeper> s/so/no
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20120901 15:46:11< natasiel> zookeeper, thank you
20120901 15:49:59< celticminstrel> Why is "array" in the WML tags sidebar? It links to a general description of WML tags, not to a description of an [array] tag.
20120901 15:50:56< celticminstrel> And [attack_filter] links to AnimationWML which doesn't mention it; I'm guessing it's deprecated/removed?
20120901 15:51:14< celticminstrel> (Ditto to secondary_attack_filter.)
20120901 15:52:17< zookeeper> because there is no [array] tag
20120901 15:52:32< celticminstrel> But why is it in the sidebar then?
20120901 15:53:02< zookeeper> no idea
20120901 15:53:17< zookeeper> also, yeah, there's no [attack_filter] (only [filter_attack]) so that should be removed
20120901 15:53:31< celticminstrel> Think I should remove array or leave it?
20120901 15:53:52< zookeeper> better leave it, doesn't seem to do any harm
20120901 15:53:59< celticminstrel> 'kay
20120901 15:54:39< celticminstrel> bold is another one that's there that doesn't seem to be a WML tag (it links to help system topic markup).
20120901 15:55:59< zookeeper> yeah, there's <bold> but it's not a WML tag so it probably shouldn't be there
20120901 15:56:24< celticminstrel> 'kay
20120901 15:59:18< celticminstrel> There's quite a few missing tags… add_ai_behaviour, adjacent_description, affect_adjacent, to name only a few beginning with A.
20120901 16:02:01< celticminstrel> I wonder if [modifications][advance] is actually used anywhere...
20120901 16:02:18< zookeeper> yeah, i doubt people often remember to update that list :p
20120901 16:02:23< celticminstrel> Heh.
20120901 16:02:37< celticminstrel> add_ai_behaviour isn't even mentioned on any of the ActionsWML pages.
20120901 16:02:46< zookeeper> that's where advancements the unit has gained are stored, methinks
20120901 16:03:03< celticminstrel> Oh true, it'd be used in savefiles.
20120901 16:03:28< celticminstrel> I was wondering if it was used in addons though.
20120901 16:03:37< Necrosporus> http://pastebin.com/YQ473zrA — Few days ago I was asking how to make chameleon fade properly. I got recomendation to use event. So I rewritten the code into event and it works same way as [pre_movement_anim], thus 
20120901 16:03:58< celticminstrel> Mainly because using a different tag name makes it impossible to just say [unit][modifications]{AMLA_DEFAULT}.
20120901 16:04:41< Necrosporus> thus this way event is useless, and I still haven't got rid of WML errors "failed to auto-store $this_unit"
20120901 16:10:09< celticminstrel> My list of tags has "allied_with" but I can't remember where that's used...
20120901 16:11:11< Necrosporus> I have an idea how to render animation in nonblocking way, maybe like it was windmill thing
20120901 16:12:43< celticminstrel> Hm. Need to find where [candidate_action] is described… if it even is...
20120901 16:14:11< celticminstrel> Ditto for [engine].
20120901 16:15:42< celticminstrel> And I guess [stage].
20120901 16:17:33< celticminstrel> The AI pages on the wiki are kinda convoluted. :/
20120901 16:21:14< celticminstrel> What's really needed there, I think, is a basic description of those three tags on AiWML with links to various other relevant pages.
20120901 16:21:27< celticminstrel> Though, AiWML is itself a little convoluted.
20120901 16:23:00< celticminstrel> …where is [castle] a tag?
20120901 16:23:15< zookeeper> sounds like a map generator tag
20120901 16:23:43< celticminstrel> Oh, so it is.
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20120901 17:33:42< celticminstrel> [color_range] and [color_palette] aren't even mentioned on the wiki...
20120901 17:40:08< celticminstrel> {FOREACH} is misnamed. It's not a foreach loop; it's a simple for loop.
20120901 17:40:26< Espreon> 1. Make them mentioned!
20120901 17:40:44< Espreon> 2. Patches welcomed
20120901 17:40:54< celticminstrel> Well, to make them mentioned I suspect I would need to make a new page.
20120901 17:40:58< zookeeper> except that patches for renaming FOREACH are not welcome :p
20120901 17:41:09< celticminstrel> So, lower priority than what I'm doing right now.
20120901 17:41:33< celticminstrel> Regarding FOREACH, if I were to submit a patch for it, it would be for better documentation of how to use it. :/
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20120901 17:53:08< zookeeper> well sure, better commenting is welcome
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20120901 18:34:01< Necrosporus> I'm sorry, got a disconnect
20120901 18:35:00< Necrosporus> So how would I get rid of WML errors? Maybe it's engine bug?
20120901 18:35:08< Necrosporus> Or mine code is somehow wrong?
20120901 18:37:23< Necrosporus> Also why there are a sort of puddles on cave road / flat?
20120901 18:39:04< zookeeper> try to catch sapient on #wesnoth-dev about the errors
20120901 18:57:49< Necrosporus> I will... so, any hints about animation? standing animation makes the unit appear by itself, I guess it got repeated even though I set very long timeframe.
20120901 18:58:15< Necrosporus> Animation on event or post_movement doesn't let user to select next unit, while it's played
20120901 18:59:14< Necrosporus> Only idea left is to find out how terrain animations work and try to invoke it instead of unit animation
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20120901 19:22:06< Necrosporus> An unit can take more than one tile as image, but logically, it's still one tile
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20120901 19:22:36< Necrosporus> I wonder, are there true multitile units?
20120901 19:23:29< Necrosporus> I guess, even if there are no, it's possible to make several units in adjacent hexes, and synchronise their hp and xp via events
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20120901 19:46:49< Necrosporus> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/MultiHexTutorial
20120901 19:47:06< Necrosporus> How am I supposed to read if there are no images, just their names?
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20120901 23:10:34-!- shadowm changed the topic of #wesnoth to: Forums currently down for scheduled maintenance, back in an hour-ish | Wesnoth User Channel | http://www.wesnoth.org/ | Social channel: #wesnoth-offtopic | Latest stable version: 1.10.4 | Latest development version: 1.11.0 | Public IRC logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20120901 23:54:33< Failure> hey dudes i got a question about WML scripting, but Forums down at the moment
20120901 23:55:12< Espreon> Ask away.
20120901 23:55:17< shadowm> Ask away, maybe there's someone who knows a possible answer.
20120901 23:55:33< Crendgrim> maybe that's possible indeed.
20120901 23:55:53< Espreon> Quite.
20120901 23:56:53< Failure> kay thanks for your attention. maybe its to easy, but im not able to create another side after changing my Objectives
20120901 23:57:33< Crendgrim> do you try to create a side mid-scenario?
20120901 23:57:40< Failure> i want to kill the leader of side 2, and straight after that side 3 shall appear
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20120901 23:58:09< Failure> yes or at least let it look as if the side created in mid game scenario
20120901 23:58:33< shadowm> It's not possible to do that, but you can hide and unhide a side as you wish during a scenario.
20120901 23:58:49< zookeeper> well, just originally define side 3 without any units (no_leader=yes and so forth) and then create some units for it whenever you choose
20120901 23:58:53< shadowm> You could configure the side initially setting hidden=yes, and later set that to no with [modify_side].
20120901 23:59:05< shadowm> And the stuff zookeeper said.
20120901 23:59:06< zookeeper> and yeah, i guess these days we can completely hide it too
20120901 23:59:11< Failure> they dont do anything while they are hidden? cause i dont want to use shroud or fog
20120901 23:59:23< zookeeper> if they have no units, they can't do anything
--- Log closed Sun Sep 02 00:00:11 2012