--- Log opened Sun Sep 02 00:00:11 2012
20120902 00:00:22< Failure> i thought hidden is only for the side table information
20120902 00:00:34< zookeeper> it is
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20120902 00:03:47< Failure> hmm, maybe if i set hidden=yes modify the leader as hide_unit and change its total moves to zero and disallow him to recruit, i got a total invisible side, and with the event of changing objectives i can chang this again, this could be a nice workaorund for my Problem, am i Wrong?
20120902 00:04:28< zookeeper> sure, but why would you clumsily hide the leader when you could just create it at the time when the side becomes visible?
20120902 00:05:29< Failure> i can create a leader? how?
20120902 00:06:18< zookeeper> the same way you create any unit, with the [unit] tag. just use canrecruit=yes
20120902 00:06:39< zookeeper> and don't specify any of the leader attributes in the [side] tag originally, but rather use no_leader=yes there
20120902 00:07:38< Failure> so just keep the leader things away of the side tag like ignoring him and put him into game later? 
20120902 00:07:48< zookeeper> yes
20120902 00:08:32< zookeeper> that's the usual way of doing it. or you can just define the leader in the [side] tag normally, but then use [store_unit] in a prestart event to remove him, and [unstore_unit] to put him back when you want
20120902 00:09:04< Failure> Ashes on my Cow's Head for haven't tried this before stealing your time xDD 
20120902 00:09:08< Failure> Thanks Due
20120902 00:09:12< Failure> Dude
20120902 00:09:38< Crendgrim> what, btw, is the use of "no_leader=no"?
20120902 00:09:53< zookeeper> Crendgrim, pretty much none, i guess
20120902 00:09:58< Crendgrim> or, to put it differently: Why does that attribute exist at all?
20120902 00:10:19< Failure> i think for changing to no_leader=yes?
20120902 00:11:17< zookeeper> well i think it'd be silly for the engine to specifically disallow you from using no_leader=no.
20120902 00:11:59< zookeeper> and how else would you make it "not exist"?
20120902 00:12:29< Crendgrim> well, where is the difference for the engine?
20120902 00:12:38< zookeeper> there is none
20120902 00:12:45< zookeeper> but you're still not presenting an alternative
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20120902 00:13:35< Crendgrim> I mean: if you specify "no_leader=yes" and have a leader, how is that different from a scenario where it's "no_leader=no" (standard, as I take it?) with a leader?
20120902 00:13:47< Crendgrim> or is there a difference when there is no leader?
20120902 00:13:56< zookeeper> well presumably different in that you won't get the leader
20120902 00:14:43< Crendgrim> does that mean that you have to modify the side back to no_leader=no once you create a recruiting unit?
20120902 00:14:49< zookeeper> what
20120902 00:14:53< zookeeper> you're not making sense now
20120902 00:15:09< zookeeper> no_leader= only has any effect on scenario-level [side] definitions
20120902 00:15:21< zookeeper> trying to apply it mid-scenario doesn't do anything
20120902 00:16:00< Crendgrim> alright... I'll try to rephrase it in a PM tomorrow, when I'm not that tired and hopefully make more sense :)
20120902 00:16:17< zookeeper> it's only purpose is to tell the game that "don't try to read leader attributes from this [side] tag"
20120902 00:17:06< Crendgrim> ah
20120902 00:17:11< Crendgrim> alright, that explains it.
20120902 00:17:16< zookeeper> well, AFAIK anyway. i'm not sure, but i'd expect you to be able to use no_leader=yes and still define the leader inside the [side] tag as a separate [unit]
20120902 00:17:33< Crendgrim> thanks :) now it makes perfect sense to me again
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20120902 00:54:26-!- shadowm changed the topic of #wesnoth to: Wesnoth User Channel | http://www.wesnoth.org/ | Social channel: #wesnoth-offtopic | Latest stable version: 1.10.4 | Latest development version: 1.11.0 | Public IRC logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20120902 00:54:43< shadowm> Yeah. Now I remember why I stopped doing that.
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20120902 05:48:09< celticminstrel> Heh, [filter_attack] is actually listed twice in the WML tags infobox.
20120902 05:49:50< Espreon> Then fix it.
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20120902 06:02:22< celticminstrel> Working on it.
20120902 06:11:41-!- nerukrg is now known as dkkrg
20120902 06:18:41< celticminstrel> I'm wondering whether a few of these changes were the right way to go (mainly the ones changed from {Event,Animation}WML to Standard*Filter). http://wiki.wesnoth.org/index.php?title=Template%3AWML_Tags&diff=47151&oldid=47145
20120902 06:19:30< celticminstrel> Basically it's a question of, "should this link to where the tag is used, or where its contents are described?:.
20120902 06:19:34< celticminstrel> ^?".
20120902 06:21:53< shadowm> Preferably the latter when the former is not an unique location.
20120902 06:22:25< celticminstrel> Okay.
20120902 06:22:45< shadowm> Filters are debatable, I guess.
20120902 06:24:29< celticminstrel> Heh.
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20120902 12:49:26< Necrosporus> I wonder, if I find an artist who would agree to draw an animated volcano, how would I place it on the map?
20120902 12:49:37< Necrosporus> Terrain animation seems too complex for me
20120902 12:49:55< Necrosporus> At least the mill was made via 3 levels of macros
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20120902 23:25:54< celticminstrel> Verification/clarification would be nice. http://wiki.wesnoth.org/index.php?title=UnitTypeWML&diff=47162&oldid=47113
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20120902 23:28:33< shadowm> celticminstrel: unit_type.portrait is not really intended for public use.
20120902 23:28:54< celticminstrel> Why not?
20120902 23:29:04< shadowm> Or that's what I was told back in the day. The explanation never made much sense to me and most people can simply use the profile attribute.
20120902 23:29:23< celticminstrel> I see.
20120902 23:29:25< shadowm> I have no idea and I don't feel like traveling back to 2008 atm to read the explanation again.
20120902 23:29:31< celticminstrel> Heh.
20120902 23:29:40< celticminstrel> Maybe I should note that then?
20120902 23:30:25< shadowm> The only thing that people need to know about profile is that if you provide foo/bar.png and the game can automatically find a foo/transparent/bar.png file too, it will use the latter in dialogues and use the former only for Help.
20120902 23:30:46< shadowm> You might want to note that [portrait] is reserved for internal use and not really necessary or something like that.
20120902 23:30:51< celticminstrel> Okay.
20120902 23:31:44< shadowm> And that there's a ~RIGHT() image path function (fake, though) that is used by dialogues to show the portrait to the right instead of the left, but perhaps that's already documented too.
20120902 23:32:04< celticminstrel> I think it's documented in the description of [message].
20120902 23:34:17< celticminstrel> [protect_location] and [protect_unit] are deprecated, right? Meaning I probably shouldn't add them to the list?
20120902 23:34:52< shadowm> Are they?
20120902 23:35:02< celticminstrel> I thought they were, in favour of [goal].
20120902 23:35:23< shadowm> I don't know anything about AI-related syntax.
20120902 23:35:48< celticminstrel> Well, it does say they are on the wiki: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/AiWML#Deprecated_AI_Targeting_Aspects
20120902 23:37:01< shadowm> If they still work on current stable or development they should be linked.
20120902 23:38:08< celticminstrel> I'm not sure if they do, but I think I've seen them used in some mainline campaigns, so I guess that probably means they do work in 1.10.
20120902 23:40:10 * celticminstrel searches, finds 37 occurences of [protect_ in the mainline data folder, including [protect_unit], [protect_location], and [protect_area].
20120902 23:41:34< celticminstrel> [protect_area] is only used in A Small Favour in Descent Into Darkness.
20120902 23:43:58< celticminstrel> I should check to see whether [protect_area] is a tag defined only in that campaign…
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20120902 23:59:29< celticminstrel> …why do I have [wml_action] on my list of tags?
--- Log closed Mon Sep 03 00:00:02 2012