--- Log opened Fri Nov 30 00:00:47 2012
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20121130 00:35:30< AI0867> does lua have access to remove (3) ?
20121130 00:35:37< AI0867> looks that way in src/lua/loslib.c
20121130 00:39:20< Alarantalara> AI0867: The code is still there, but the API call is removed in scripting/lua.cpp
20121130 00:40:14< Alarantalara> see line 3955-3964 of that file
20121130 00:44:47< AI0867> ah, k
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20121130 01:48:09< gh0st> mattsc: Hi! About the step 2 of lurkers micro ai, at the first look i didn't find anything that needs to be generalized, i.e didn't find any hard coded values. Do i need to come with parameters that would customize the lurkers behavior?
20121130 01:51:35< mattsc> gh0st: yes, that's what Step 2 involves for the lurkers, coming up with some parameters
20121130 01:51:39< mattsc> This page: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Google_Code-in_Micro_AI_Tasks#Lurkers_.281_AI.29
20121130 01:52:17< mattsc> gives you suggestions for 2 things you could change pretty easily, and then asks that you come up with a third on your own (but I can help)
20121130 01:54:52< gh0st> ok, now i get it. Right now i am glacing through the lua manual, to get some basic understanding of the language.
20121130 01:55:42< gh0st> s/glacing/glancing
20121130 01:58:24< mattsc> And I'm just noticing that I said I'd commit the lurker code after resolving that conflict, didn't I?
20121130 02:00:49< gh0st> i think, yea. :)
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20121130 02:02:24< mattsc> Sorry, too many things going on today.  Doing it right now.
20121130 02:12:34< mattsc> gh0st: ok, all should be up to date now, and I removed the old engine file as well.
20121130 02:12:56< mattsc> I tested it briefly and everything seems to work, but let me know if you find any problems.
20121130 02:15:40< gh0st> okay, great.
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20121130 02:44:51< mattsc> Hi Nephro.  Isn't it getting pretty late where you are?
20121130 02:45:15< Nephro> i've lost track of time
20121130 02:45:25< mattsc> :)
20121130 02:46:06< mattsc> Unfortunately, I found another issue with the external CAs that keeps me from using them right now: I need to be able to pass config parameters to the eval and/or exec functions 
20121130 02:46:28< mattsc> Is that currently possible?  If not, how hard is it to add that?
20121130 02:47:10< Nephro> it's probably not possible
20121130 02:47:18< Nephro> and I assume it's pretty hard to do
20121130 02:47:21< Nephro> but doable
20121130 02:48:01< Nephro> question is, where do you apprehend the config data you want to pass?
20121130 02:48:02< mattsc> Ok.  It could be done the same way as for the evaluation/execution= keys for other CAs: with a string
20121130 02:48:31< mattsc> Add another key to the [candidate_action] tag that takes a config string?
20121130 02:49:06< mattsc> Having it take a lua table would be preferable, of course, but I don't know if that's possible since we're in a WML environment
20121130 02:49:52< mattsc> Or, if we have a persistent data variable, it might be possible to use that if there's a way to assign it a value from outside the CA or engine./
20121130 02:52:47< mattsc> The reason why I came across this is because I did try to convert one of the AIs to using the external CAs today - so I am really trying to use the things you wrote during the summer  :)
20121130 02:56:16< Nephro> the fact that you discover these things, means I've done my job bad. I'm really thankful to you for doing this, I've still got much to learn
20121130 02:57:13< Nephro> I think the worst thing about all this is that we haven't conducted a proper dialogue with you, about what you actually need and I did stuff as I thought it would be good
20121130 02:57:19< mattsc> I beg to disagree.  :)  I think you did the job we set out to do just fine, just neither of us knew exactly how we were going to use it, so we didn't think of some of these things.
20121130 02:57:26< Nephro> yes
20121130 02:57:34< Nephro> But either way
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20121130 02:57:51< Nephro> I'm not sure if fixing all these bugs is actually a good idea
20121130 02:57:59< Nephro> patches upon patches are never good
20121130 02:58:25< Nephro> I think what we actually need to do, is sit down one or twice and have a good long talk
20121130 02:58:58< Nephro> I'll fix up the things that are bleeding at the moment, so that everything at least works(good or bad doesn't matter)
20121130 02:59:06< Nephro> and then we could discuss it all more
20121130 02:59:14< mattsc> To me these don't sound like bugs, but feature request, but you know the inner mechanics of this much better than I.
20121130 02:59:14< Nephro> tomorrow is my last deadline for this year
20121130 02:59:19< mattsc> Sounds good.
20121130 02:59:24< Nephro> that is 
20121130 02:59:28< Nephro> today is the deadline alrady
20121130 02:59:37< mattsc> yeah ...
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20121130 02:59:53< mattsc> I won't keep you then.  I just wanted to tell you while it was fresh on my mind.
20121130 03:00:24< Nephro> Yes, the feeling that someone is trying to use my work, but struggles with it, is not the best I've had
20121130 03:00:51< mattsc> Look at it this way: somebody's trying to use your work, so you must have done something right!
20121130 03:01:26< mattsc> New and untested code always has things that need to be changed or added.
20121130 03:01:45< mattsc> Untested by the users, I mean, not by the developer.
20121130 03:02:02< Nephro> Is Crab around here often lately? I think I'm past the point where I would need him to approve my steps regarding the Lua engine, but it'd still be nice to hear his thoughts on this.
20121130 03:02:26< mattsc> I think Crab just moved, so he has very little time.
20121130 03:02:38< mattsc> I've seen him only a couple times over the last few weeks.
20121130 03:02:49< Nephro> I see.
20121130 03:04:55< Nephro> Well either way, I really hate myself for becoming the stereotype programmer, who never does things on time, and is always postponing everything. The difference between good programmers and bad ones, is that good ones can actually manage their time and plan for the future, and their plans don't get crushed by things like uni.
20121130 03:05:53< mattsc> I think you sound tired and more down on yourself than you need to be.
20121130 03:06:31< Nephro> Lets arrange a time and have something like a client/developer interview, disregarding everything that has been done before, so we can get the idea of what we really want to achieve with the Lua AI system, not distorted by the current problems. How does that sound?
20121130 03:06:36< mattsc> And, your uni work is really what's important (even if unpleasant at times), so don't worry about this until you have time for it.  :)
20121130 03:06:53< mattsc> Sounds great.
20121130 03:07:18< mattsc> The one problem is that I only know what I really want when I am starting to use it, that's why I didn't notice that this summer.
20121130 03:07:29< mattsc> So you can blame me just as well as yourself.
20121130 03:08:05< Nephro> well, if developers start to blame the clients for the lack of quality in their software, this world might not take it too well :D
20121130 03:09:05< mattsc> True.  WTH did you not implement this feature that I never asked for before but now absolutely need right away ?!?  :D
20121130 03:10:11< Nephro> we have a course on how to professionally gather requirements of the clients and engineer documentation to show them, so that when the system is implemented it does what it is actually expected of it
20121130 03:10:40< Nephro> I might use skills obtained there
20121130 03:10:43< mattsc> cool
20121130 03:10:57< Appleman1234> Nephro, in the real world requirements are hard to gather like diamonds 
20121130 03:11:17< mattsc> anyways, I need to go and read stories about bunnies or dinosaurs or something.
20121130 03:11:28< mattsc> Good luck with the uni work and talk to you later.
20121130 03:11:43< Nephro> Appleman1234, I know, the fact that users of my systems struggle with it, even though we seemed to discuss it properly, proved that to me
20121130 03:11:46< Nephro> mattsc, wait
20121130 03:11:50< Nephro> lets settle on the time
20121130 03:12:11< mattsc> ok, if that's possible...
20121130 03:12:41< Nephro> How about Monday?
20121130 03:12:46< mattsc> my schedule is not always plannable more than about 10 minutes in advance  :)
20121130 03:13:03< mattsc> In general that's ok, depends on the time.
20121130 03:13:37< mattsc> Early afternoon PST would be good for me.
20121130 03:14:06< Nephro> what time is it in PST now?
20121130 03:14:13< mattsc> GST-7
20121130 03:14:26< Nephro> no no I mean what time is it in your places?
20121130 03:14:38< mattsc> 18:15
20121130 03:15:14< Nephro> it's like 6 here... I'll turn on IRC at 5 on Monday, and you just ping me up when you're free ok?
20121130 03:15:34< mattsc> Sounds great.  Thanks!
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20121130 03:16:06< Nephro> Alright, bye
20121130 03:16:15< mattsc> bye
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20121130 13:58:08< AI0867> who here uses MSVC?
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20121130 14:07:16< loonycyborg> AI0867: You're working on filesystem stuff, right? Do you open files with boost::filesystem::fstream?
20121130 14:14:44< AI0867> yes
20121130 14:15:10< AI0867> espreon is testing stuff for me using cygwin, but it doesn't seem to work there
20121130 14:15:24< AI0867> and I've read that this may be a cygwin/mingw-specific issue
20121130 14:16:11< AI0867> that is, MSVC provides wchar_t overloads for the fstream stuff (which boost then uses), but they don't
20121130 14:16:54< AI0867> the regular char versions use "whatever the current code page is"
20121130 14:16:59< AI0867> and utf-8 is not a valid code page
20121130 14:17:13< loonycyborg> I know a possible workaround
20121130 14:19:03< loonycyborg> Use file descriptor streams from boost.iostreams
20121130 14:19:22< loonycyborg> With a descriptor from a manual call to CreateFile
20121130 14:20:47-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.11.1 planned for once the hotkey and MP issues are fixed | 191 bugs, 333 feature requests, 15 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20121130 14:22:27< loonycyborg> At least it seems to be only tolerable way to make a stream from a file descriptor. Maybe I'm missing something though :P
20121130 14:26:55< loonycyborg> http://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_52_0/libs/iostreams/doc/classes/file_descriptor.html
20121130 14:45:04< AI0867> yeah
20121130 14:45:43< AI0867> http://pastebin.com/FWMA5SYq
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20121130 14:58:22< loonycyborg> http://boost.2283326.n4.nabble.com/boost-filesystem-path-as-utf-8-td4320098.html#a4322460 <- this is how you supposed to handle  utf-8 paths btw
20121130 15:00:28< loonycyborg> So no idea why you're doing utils::string_to_wstring stuff :P
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20121130 15:39:14< gh0st> mattsc: hey, can you add some time on my lurkers step 2 task? 23mins left.
20121130 15:39:16< mattsc> Hi, rspencer: I'm currently checking out your code.
20121130 15:39:32< rspencer> mattsc:  Hi!  Thanks.
20121130 15:39:43< mattsc> gh0st: let me check
20121130 15:40:29< mattsc> gh0st: you will automatically get 24 more hours once this expires, so there's nothing that needs to be done right now.
20121130 15:40:40< gh0st> ok, great.
20121130 15:40:51< mattsc> After that I can extend it, if you need more time.
20121130 15:41:37< mattsc> rspencer: why did you put in the check for unit (if unit then ...)?  These are BCAs, they are automatically removed when the unit dies.
20121130 15:42:09< mattsc> Did you get an error message (which would mean that something isn't working correctly)?
20121130 15:42:13< rspencer> When the unit died, I got a bunch of error messages about trying to access the moves property of null variable "unit"
20121130 15:42:48< mattsc> Huh, strange.  I'll put that on my list of things to look into sometime...
20121130 15:42:59< rspencer> Perhaps part of the problem is that the remove funtion is totally wrong.
20121130 15:43:03< rspencer> Just noticed
20121130 15:43:30< mattsc> Also, I started by playing the scenario and the return guardians don't move.
20121130 15:43:54< rspencer> They never moved (not that I noticed)?
20121130 15:44:14< mattsc> The return function should have nothing to do with that.  That's for manual removal.  Removal upon a unit's death should be automatically done by Wesnoth.  Maybe there's a bug somewhere.
20121130 15:44:48< rspencer> Ok.  Will look into the return guardians not moving...
20121130 15:45:25< gh0st> mattsc: I have a question: The unit type in micro_ai tag wich i will add, has to be an array i guess, because we might want to set the ai for sevral unit types on one particular side, right?
20121130 15:46:33< gh0st> How can we define an array in WML?
20121130 15:47:09< mattsc> gh0st: If you do it in WML, it's just a comma separated list, e.g.:
20121130 15:47:20< mattsc> type=Orcish Grunt,Orcish Archer,Wolf Rider
20121130 15:48:57< gh0st> Well, we need to do it in WML because type key is going to set in micro_ai tag?
20121130 15:49:12< gh0st> be set*
20121130 15:49:25< mattsc> Probably.
20121130 15:49:31< rspencer> mattsc:  I put in a debug line of printing.  The return guardians don't move, but their relevant funtion is called.  ie is is a problem (if any) with the lua function.  I don't ever remember them moving and the code looks as if it never will (if it starts on the target hex?)
20121130 15:49:56< mattsc> Check out how it is done in the bottleneck MAI.  x,y and enemy_x,enemy_y there are arrays
20121130 15:50:17< mattsc> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Micro_AIs#Bottleneck_Defense_Micro_AI
20121130 15:50:50< rspencer> mattsc:  Also, although the unit dies, I have confirmed that the eval function is still called (hence the stopgap for the unit=null case)
20121130 15:51:21< mattsc> rspencer: I know for sure that the return guardians did move within the last couple days.
20121130 15:52:24< rspencer> As far as the code looks, return guardians try to move towards the target hex, right?
20121130 15:52:25< mattsc> As for the unit dying, ok.  You have a working version, so that's good.  I'll check out some other time why it isn't doing what I think it should be doing.
20121130 15:53:44< mattsc> return guardian: yes, but look at the eval score.
20121130 15:54:19< mattsc> It greater than the combat CA score if the unit is away from that hex, and smaller if it is on the hex.
20121130 15:54:56< mattsc> So, if it is on the hex, the combat CA kicks in first and the unit will attack if an enemy is within range (the combat CA includes the move next to the enemy)
20121130 15:55:30< rspencer> Aah, ok.
20121130 15:56:33< rspencer> Found the problem
20121130 15:56:45< rspencer> Need to pass stuff to the eval as well as exec
20121130 15:57:42< mattsc> Yep, just found it too  :)
20121130 15:58:21< rspencer> Testing a fix, and will upload if it works
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20121130 16:10:57< rspencer> mattsc: changes uploaded
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20121130 16:15:02< mattsc> Ok, works now, great.  And I like how you dealt with the required and optional parameters.
20121130 16:15:18< mattsc> As you said yourself, removal of the CAs won't work yet though.
20121130 16:15:39< rspencer> Ta.  Yeah, the removal issue is dodgy.  You need to get the id of the unit in there somehow.
20121130 16:15:41< mattsc> And I think for BCAs, we need to make the unit ID a required parameter for removal also
20121130 16:16:16< mattsc> Exactly.  So make it a required parameter for removal.
20121130 16:16:30< rspencer> Yes
20121130 16:16:54< mattsc> I'll leave you to that then and eat breakfast  :)
20121130 16:17:44< rspencer> Ok
20121130 16:30:46< rspencer> mattsc: (when you get back) the delete wml tag is not called upon unit death.  What *is* called?
20121130 16:33:46< mattsc> rspencer (I'm not back yet, was just checking on something): according to this: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/LuaAI#Behavior.28sticky.29_candidate_actions
20121130 16:34:21< mattsc> the BCA gets automatically removed (by wesnoth) on the unit's death.
20121130 16:34:47< mattsc> I thought that I had tested that that works before, but if so that was a long time ago, so I'm not sure.
20121130 16:39:08< rspencer> ok...
20121130 16:39:39< mattsc> rspencer: one more thing, I think all other wesnoth tags use only lowercase letters.  We should stick with that convention, so lets rename 'unitID' to 'unit_id'.  Actually, usually simply 'id' is used in other tags, so let's go with that if it doesn't conflict with something else.
20121130 16:40:01< rspencer> Ok, will make the change
20121130 16:57:05< rspencer> mattsc: am I right in thinking this requires me to change the tag type from modify_ai to add_ai_behaviour?
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20121130 17:09:15 * rspencer is going to supper and will be back in an hour (hopefully)
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20121130 17:20:27< mattsc> rspencer: no, I don't think so.  All you need to do is replace 'stat_guard' in candidate_action[stat_guard] with whatever the actual ID of the BCA is.
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20121130 18:03:28< rspencer> mattsc: I don't think so.  The wesnoth.wml_actions.micro_ai(cfg) is not getting called on the destroy
20121130 18:04:39< mattsc> rspencer: umm, we might be talking about different things here...  Can you say again what you are referring to?
20121130 18:05:17< rspencer> When the unit is killed, the wesnoth.wml_actions.micro_ai(cfg) funtion is not called.  Thus the guardian_CAs.lua".remove(cfg.side,cfg.id) is never called
20121130 18:05:51< mattsc> Yes, that is correct.  (That's not what I was talking about, sorry.)
20121130 18:06:26< mattsc> When the unit is killed, Wesnoth should remove the BCA automatically.  If it doesn't, that's a bug.
20121130 18:06:26< rspencer> Ok.  So what does get called?
20121130 18:06:30< rspencer> Oh.
20121130 18:06:37< mattsc> Either way you don't need to worry about it for this task.
20121130 18:07:06< rspencer> Ok
20121130 18:07:13< mattsc> What somebody (I?) should be doing at some later time is test what's going on and then submit a bug report if needed.
20121130 18:07:40< rspencer> Right.  Then I am going to submit the change from unitID to id.
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20121130 18:08:10< mattsc> What you need to do is make sure that you can remove individual CAs manually, by using the [micro_ai] tag in a, say, turn 3 event.
20121130 18:08:24< gh0st> mattsc: How can i check that the Lurker micro ai has been applied to some unit?
20121130 18:09:46< mattsc> gh0st: not sure I udnerstand.  The lurker AI is a sidewide AI, it doesn't apply to a specific unit.
20121130 18:10:54< gh0st> Um, i mean if it has been run at.
20121130 18:10:59< gh0st> all
20121130 18:11:42< mattsc> well, with the standard lurkers, you can test whether they also attack units from non-swamp hexes, for example
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20121130 18:12:49< gh0st> ok
20121130 18:14:23< mattsc> gh0st: essentially, you set up a situation for it that you know the micro ai would do differently from the normal ai and then test what happens.
20121130 18:14:37< mattsc> Or you add some debug messages to the code and see if those appear.
20121130 18:17:08< gh0st> how can i add those?
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20121130 18:18:42< gh0st> more importantly where do they appear?
20121130 18:19:44< mattsc> if you use print() it appears at stdout (where that is depends on your OS)
20121130 18:20:00< mattsc> if you use wesnoth.message(), it will appear in the wesnoth window
20121130 18:20:23< gh0st> ok got it.
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20121130 18:31:30< rspencer> mattsc: All up and working (afaik)
20121130 18:32:41< mattsc> rspencer: ok, give me a few minutes
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20121130 18:45:04< mattsc> rspencer: it is possible to attach several BCAs to the same unit.  So we should keep the guardian_type in the CA id and name
20121130 18:45:34< rspencer> mattsc:  Ok.  That means that the person will have to specify which one to remove right?
20121130 18:45:54< mattsc> yes
20121130 18:46:13< rspencer> Ok.
20121130 18:48:27< mattsc> rspencer: besides that, the code looks good, as does the wiki
20121130 18:49:11< mattsc> Once you've made this last change, I'll do a couple tests and if they work out, we're done.
20121130 18:49:57< rspencer> Thanks.  Do I get 3a and b?
20121130 18:50:12< mattsc> Yes.
20121130 18:51:09< rspencer> Cool
20121130 18:51:27< mattsc> It's great that you did both.  The problem with that is that somebody else could have claimed 3b in the meantime and then you would not have gotten credit for it even though you did the work.
20121130 18:52:06< mattsc> ... and I understand that you submitted the 3a work first, but I do have to sleep sometime.  I'm getting old, apparently  :)
20121130 18:52:37< rspencer> Heh.  That is the problem with being half way round the world
20121130 18:53:14< rspencer> I did both because I thought I knew the code better than a newcomer so it would be faster.
20121130 18:53:15< mattsc> Yep.  But it's pretty cool that otherwise it really doesn't matter where anybody is!
20121130 18:53:29< rspencer> Yeah.  Internet.
20121130 18:54:00< mattsc> Sure, and that's great.  Just telling you that there's a small risk that you might not get the task officially then.
20121130 18:54:53< rspencer> Oh, right.
20121130 18:55:13< mattsc> But in this case it worked out, so no problem.
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20121130 18:58:38< rspencer> Hmm.  Git is not pushing.
20121130 18:59:31< mattsc> I've had some connection problems through the morning.  Usually it worked for me on retry.
20121130 19:02:28< rspencer> My side claims it is done and dusted, but github says nothing
20121130 19:03:45< rspencer> Ah screw it.  I'll do it in the browser
20121130 19:04:01< mattsc> you sure you did a commit and sync, not just a local commit?
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20121130 19:04:31< rspencer> Yes
20121130 19:05:36< mattsc> well, sometimes the github site takes a while for things to get there.
20121130 19:05:43< rspencer> Ok.  We will see...
20121130 19:07:43< mattsc> I don't know why it's sometimes doing that.  Maybe they're rebooting or something.
20121130 19:07:55< mattsc> Are you waiting for this in order to move on?
20121130 19:08:57< rspencer> Well, I would ask for 3b and then call it a night.  I am going away on the weekend so I will only be back on tuesday.  Can I get the files to you some other way (pastebin or sth?)
20121130 19:09:36< mattsc> Yeah, sure.
20121130 19:10:26< rspencer> http://pastebin.com/iYmV2aKM
20121130 19:11:08< rspencer> http://pastebin.com/YrHFTZPN
20121130 19:11:39< mattsc> well, they just came through on github, just took a few minutes.
20121130 19:11:59< rspencer> Whoah.  Ok.
20121130 19:12:09< rspencer> Might be a few unneeded ones just now...
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20121130 19:18:15< mattsc> There's some trouble with the commits not coming through, or not yet being all through or something.
20121130 19:18:34< mattsc> I think we'll have to wait a few more minutes before I can look into it.
20121130 19:18:43< rspencer> ok
20121130 19:22:09< mattsc> rspencer, martin__bede: between the commits the two of you did, something went wrong.
20121130 19:22:29< mattsc> Somehow we threw github into a loop, and some of the previous changes were erased.
20121130 19:23:07< rspencer> Uurgh
20121130 19:23:09< rspencer> What got lost?
20121130 19:25:00< rspencer> I can see one file that I need to redo, will do that now.
20121130 19:25:08< mattsc> I think some of your recent commits to the common files did get undone when martin__bede submitted his. 
20121130 19:25:29< mattsc> If you could, that would be great.  Otherwise I have your pastebins and I can sort it out.
20121130 19:25:53< rspencer> It is just the wml tags file that got killed.  I will redo it
20121130 19:26:00< mattsc> great.
20121130 19:26:18< mattsc> and after that, hopefully github will stop recommiting everything every few minutes.
20121130 19:26:40< martin__bede> oh im sorry
20121130 19:27:19< mattsc> martin__bede: don't worry about it.  I should have set this up so that you're not working on the same file.  I just didn't think about that beforehand.
20121130 19:28:09< mattsc> after rspencer recommits his, could you look at that version then and make sure nothing of your own changes got lost, please?
20121130 19:29:34< rspencer> commit sent
20121130 19:30:53< mattsc> thanks.  you can call it a night then.  I do have the pastebins and if there are further problems, I'll sort things out.
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20121130 21:28:47< irker751> wesnoth: zookeeper * r55788 /trunk/data/core/images/units/monsters/seaserpent.png: 
20121130 21:28:47< irker751> wesnoth: Shadow update to the Sea Serpent.
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20121130 22:13:02< mattsc> Hi, Crab_.  I am going to chat with Nephro on Monday about some additions to the external CA method.
20121130 22:15:15< mattsc> I'd like to switch the whole Micro AI stuff over to using external CAs, so that we don't have to define an engine at the beginning of the scenario (which is very restrictive for some things).
20121130 22:15:46< mattsc> There are two things missing for that currently: the persistent data variable, and a way to pass parameters to the eval/exec functions.
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20121130 23:40:39< Espreon> AI0867: I'm actually using MinGW.
20121130 23:41:12< Espreon> It just so happens that I have Wesnoth in my cygwin home directory.
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20121130 23:58:46< anonymissimus> just to be sure, the wesnoth preprocessor doesn't support #elseif clauses ? :P
20121130 23:58:58< anonymissimus> I'd really need them atm
--- Log closed Sat Dec 01 00:00:01 2012