--- Log opened Sun Nov 04 00:00:16 2012
--- Day changed Sun Nov 04 2012
20121104 00:00:16< SeattleDad> I'm thinking of moving the bulk of ML Recruiter into AI-Demos
20121104 00:00:33< SeattleDad> I wanted to chat about this to see if you think it makes sense
20121104 00:00:49< SeattleDad> The idea is that the C++ stuff would remain as a patch
20121104 00:01:02< Alarantalara> That's all mattsc (which is fortunate, since I have to leave in about 5 minutes)
20121104 00:01:03< mattsc> Should we wait until Alarantalara is here too?
20121104 00:01:19< mattsc> Ah, ok.
20121104 00:01:34< SeattleDad> However all of the Lua would move over to AI-addons
20121104 00:02:00< mattsc> SeattleDad: that's fine by me if you think it makes sense from your point of view.
20121104 00:02:29< Alarantalara> Personally I have no objection as long as the UI clearly marks which parts require the C++ patch
20121104 00:02:41< SeattleDad> I'm thinking it might make it easier for people to try out ML Recruiter
20121104 00:03:08< SeattleDad> I'm also wanting to integrate more tightly with some of your stuff for testing purposes
20121104 00:03:24< mattsc> That's probably true.  The alternative would be to put together your own add-on.
20121104 00:03:33< mattsc> That way you get full credit for it  :)
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20121104 00:03:55< skyfaller> how would the add-on work with C++ stuff? I have not tested ML Recruiter myself
20121104 00:04:21< SeattleDad> You would have to first install the C++ patch, then you could use the ML Recruiter parts of the add-on
20121104 00:04:45< SeattleDad> What I'd really like is for the C++ patch to get accepted into Wesnoth so there won't be this issue
20121104 00:05:47< SeattleDad> I'll need some help testing the builds, but, assuming it builds, it won't create risk for the game 
20121104 00:06:21< SeattleDad> It would just enable things like the add-on to work until we're ready to incorporate it into the mainline
20121104 00:06:44< Alarantalara> Well, you could always rewrite waffles in Lua, at which point you don't need a patch :)
20121104 00:07:36< SeattleDad> That's a really big project.  Lots of very complex C++ code which is handling the run-time execution of the neural net
20121104 00:07:44< SeattleDad> Also, it will run a lot faster in C++
20121104 00:08:05< Alarantalara> Oh it's definitely a silly suggestion
20121104 00:08:48< mattsc> SeattleDad: For getting it into Wesnoth, I'd suggest that you lurk around on #wesnoth-dev until Crab's around and then ask him while he's there.  Unless Alarantalara has a better suggestion.
20121104 00:09:10< SeattleDad> I've been watching for Crab for a while and haven't caught him
20121104 00:09:32< SeattleDad> He's the one who's signed up on gna.org for my patch
20121104 00:09:38< mattsc> Yeah, he's hard to get a hold of, but when you manage, he's really helpful.
20121104 00:09:49< SeattleDad> When I chatted with him a couple months ago, he sounded open to it
20121104 00:09:56< Alarantalara> I could commit it myself, but I don't feel I have the authority to just add something so large
20121104 00:10:03< mattsc> He does respond to forum PMs too, eventually.
20121104 00:10:20< SeattleDad> I think I'll shoot him a PM.
20121104 00:10:33< Alarantalara> anyway, I have to leave now
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20121104 00:10:50< SeattleDad> I'm thinking that this idea of factoring the Lua out into AI-addons might make this an easier sell
20121104 00:11:17< SeattleDad> Nothing would be user-visible in 1.11 at the beginning
20121104 00:11:34< SeattleDad> Then we can work out the kinks before it appears as an option in multiplayer
20121104 00:12:04< mattsc> Maybe.  (I really don't know much about how hard it is to get patches accepted.)
20121104 00:12:27< SeattleDad> My medium term ambition is to get this to be the default recruiter for multiplayer, but we can take baby steps
20121104 00:12:47< mattsc> As for putting it into AI-Demos, as I said, I have no objections whatsoever, if you think it's the right thing for you to do.
20121104 00:14:12< SeattleDad> Some of my upcoming projects are going to require using some stuff from AI-Demos
20121104 00:15:21< SeattleDad> For instance, I need to start using your version of get-units (AI.get-units?) to avoid seeing petrified units
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20121104 00:16:19< mattsc> Cool.   (yes, it's ai_helper.get_live_units)  
20121104 00:16:31< SeattleDad> I'd also like to try some tighter integration with the Ron Recruiter
20121104 00:16:49< mattsc> Sounds like it makes sense to merge then.
20121104 00:16:58< SeattleDad> For instance, bring over some of the logic from Ron Recruiter as features in ML Recruiter
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20121104 00:19:44< SeattleDad> Yep, agreed.  I think it makes sense to merge
20121104 00:20:27< SeattleDad> I'm thinking my Lua code will go in lua/, obviously
20121104 00:20:28< mattsc> Do you need me to do anything for that at this point?
20121104 00:21:30< SeattleDad> My only question is how do you run an AI from AI-Demos in the GUI?
20121104 00:21:46< SeattleDad> On a particular multiplayer map
20121104 00:22:16< mattsc> Do you mean how you start it in game, or how you set it up to be started from the MP lobby?
20121104 00:22:26< mattsc> I think I know the answer, just making sure
20121104 00:22:56< SeattleDad> I think I mean "in game".
20121104 00:23:16< mattsc> Oh, ok.  Do you have AI-demos installed and Wesnoth open?
20121104 00:24:52< SeattleDad> I do now
20121104 00:25:51< mattsc> Go to the MP lobby and start a local game
20121104 00:26:27< mattsc> Then for era, choose "default+exp ai"
20121104 00:27:03< SeattleDad> Ah, okay
20121104 00:27:16< mattsc> Then when you click on ok, choose "computer player" and it will give you Ron and Fred as options
20121104 00:27:51< SeattleDad> Got it
20121104 00:28:28< mattsc> If you ever forget, you can also start the AI-Demos campaign and Grnk will explain it to you.  :)
20121104 00:28:48< SeattleDad> :)
20121104 00:29:26< SeattleDad> So if I add my .cfg to ais/, it will show up on that list?
20121104 00:30:21< mattsc> You also need to include it in multiplayer/era.cfg
20121104 00:30:31< mattsc> But other than that, yes, it should
20121104 00:30:40< SeattleDad> Also, what's "Default + Experimental (Adjustable Parameters)
20121104 00:31:03< mattsc> Nothing any more.  It's deleted in the current github version.
20121104 00:31:20< mattsc> It used to be a setup where the user could choose certain AI parameters.
20121104 00:31:24< SeattleDad> Okay, sounds good
20121104 00:31:32< mattsc> But currently there are no AI parameters, so I deleted it.
20121104 00:31:38< irker350> wesnoth-umc-dev: shikadilord * r16150 /trunk/After_the_Storm/ (units/faeries/Fire_Faerie_Spirit.cfg changelog):
20121104 00:31:39< irker350> AtS: give Forest Spirits the spirit trait instead of undead
20121104 00:31:39< mattsc> I might reintroduce it later.
20121104 00:31:39< irker350> This change was apparently supposed to take place at some point
20121104 00:31:40< irker350> following r3700 in 2009 but it was completely forgotten later. IftU had
20121104 00:31:40< irker350> been using the spirit trait for this unit since r51 nearly a year
20121104 00:31:41< irker350> before.
20121104 00:32:21< SeattleDad> I think we'll just have to mark my .cfg files as requiring the patch until the patch gets incorporated
20121104 00:32:55< SeattleDad> I'll put that in the description
20121104 00:33:01< mattsc> That's fine.
20121104 00:33:18< mattsc> If you could set it up so that the game throw up an error message rather than crashing, that would be good.
20121104 00:33:51< mattsc> But I probably don't need to tell you that...
20121104 00:35:02< SeattleDad> Okay, do you have any "error message and exit" code you could point me to?
20121104 00:35:16< mattsc> Yes, hold on ...
20121104 00:36:33< mattsc> Look at lua/grunt_rush_helper.lua: function GRFLS1_hello()
20121104 00:37:29< mattsc> I check a bunch of things, and then I simply display a message and throw a defeat event.
20121104 00:38:23< SeattleDad> Got it.  Makes sense.
20121104 00:39:10< SeattleDad> Okay, I'll get cracking on this.  
20121104 00:39:29< mattsc> Great
20121104 00:39:45< mattsc> I'll be around on and off throughout the weekend, but will stay logged on most of the time.
20121104 00:39:47< SeattleDad> Please feel free to let me know if I blow anything up and/or roll back my changes
20121104 00:40:13< SeattleDad> I can be reached by PM through the forums if something goes wrong
20121104 00:40:28< mattsc> Will do.  No worries.
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20121104 00:54:56< irker350> AI-Demos: mattsc master * rbb02c55 / lua/battle_calcs.lua : battle_calcs.lua: lift equal strike number restriction - http://git.io/q_NI2A
20121104 01:08:47< irker350> AI-Demos: mattsc master * r6c152eb / lua/battle_calcs.lua : battle_calcs.lua: combine attacker and defender config tables - http://git.io/rK1Svw
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20121104 02:10:46< irker350> AI-Demos: mattsc master * ra52c1de / lua/battle_calcs.lua : battle_calcs.lua: take firststrike into account - http://git.io/oldOBw
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20121104 02:48:26< irker350> AI-Demos: mattsc master * rdc1f4d3 / lua/battle_calcs.lua : battle_calcs.lua: flag the longest term in a battle for omission from calculation - http://git.io/8BrtAA
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20121104 03:57:29< irker350> wesnoth-umc-dev: shikadilord * r16151 /trunk/After_the_Storm/changelog: 
20121104 03:57:30< irker350> wesnoth-umc-dev: AtS: document a side effect of r16150
20121104 03:58:26< irker350> wesnoth-umc-dev: shikadilord * r16152 /trunk/After_the_Storm/sounds/break.ogg: 
20121104 03:58:27< irker350> wesnoth-umc-dev: AtS: add generic break sound
20121104 03:58:27< irker350> wesnoth-umc-dev: 
20121104 03:58:28< irker350> wesnoth-umc-dev: [SwordBreak.wav from Frogatto, re-encoded as Ogg Vorbis (quality factor of 2).]
20121104 03:58:28< irker350> wesnoth-umc-dev: 
20121104 03:58:29< irker350> wesnoth-umc-dev: 17:44:09 <shadowm> Jetrel: I'm interested in using SwordBreak.wav in a Wesnoth campaign. Would it be relicenseable as CC-0/PD?
20121104 03:58:29< irker350> wesnoth-umc-dev: 19:37:24 <Jetrel> shadowm:  yup
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20121104 06:43:10< irker350> wesnoth-umc-dev: shikadilord * r16153 /trunk/After_the_Storm/images/portraits/transparent/elyssa-unscarred.png: 
20121104 06:43:11< irker350> wesnoth-umc-dev: AtS: add an edited version of Elyssa's portrait
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20121104 15:38:12< irker350> AI-Demos: mattsc master * rf4726b6 / lua/battle_calcs.lua : New function battle_calcs.unit_attack_info() - http://git.io/RCBeDw
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20121104 17:23:08< irker350> AI-Demos: Alarantalara master * rb60682a / (3 files in 2 dirs): Remove more checks for 1.11 now that this is 1.11 only - http://git.io/lv2IZg
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20121104 17:49:25< irker350> AI-Demos: mattsc master * re3e7d09 / lua/battle_calcs.lua : unit_attack_info: add alignment - http://git.io/PhOkuw
20121104 17:54:50< mattsc> Hi, Alarantalara.  Could you try this command for me and tell me what you get:
20121104 17:55:02< mattsc> wesnoth.get_time_of_day(5)
20121104 17:55:15< mattsc> or, in fact, for any other turn number
20121104 17:55:21< Alarantalara> Any particular version of wesnoth?
20121104 17:55:43< mattsc> I'm doing this in 1.11.0, but if you use trunk, that would be an additional test
20121104 17:56:20< mattsc> I get an error message "turn number out of range" and am wondering if I am doing this wrong or if ...
20121104 17:56:50< mattsc> ... this is a bug (sorry, got distracted by an idea that turned out to be nonsense, I think)
20121104 17:59:30< Alarantalara> Look like a bug. It should work if you call it in a scenario with a turn limit
20121104 17:59:49< mattsc> Ok.  I'll put in a bug report.
20121104 18:00:18< Alarantalara> I found a check for < num_turns, which is −1if there is no turn limit
20121104 18:00:22< mattsc> Oh, hold on.  My test scenario does not have a turn limit...
20121104 18:00:47< mattsc> Let me change that...
20121104 18:03:26< mattsc> Alarantalara: indeed it works now.  Thanks.  But does it make sense for it not to work in scenarios without turn limits?
20121104 18:03:59< Alarantalara> No, it should work there. I think it's a bug with the check on parameters passed from Lua
20121104 18:04:21< mattsc> Ok, so I put in a bug report?  Or do you just want to fix it quickly?
20121104 18:05:02< Alarantalara> I'm checking tod_manager to find out why it cares about the turn limit first in case it's a more involved problem
20121104 18:06:51< Alarantalara> It doesn't seem to
20121104 18:10:03< mattsc> ok.  so should I file a bug report?
20121104 18:10:20< Alarantalara> I'll just commit a fix now
20121104 18:10:26< mattsc> Cool!
20121104 18:19:11< Alarantalara> I'm getting a bit annoyed at most of the function keys not working in svn
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20121104 18:24:13< mattsc> :|
20121104 18:27:12< Alarantalara> It's fixed now. You'll still get an error if you ask for a turn outside the legal range, so you may want to check for errors in scenarios with turn limits
20121104 18:29:28< irker350> AI-Demos: mattsc master * r65222eb / lua/battle_calcs.lua : New function battle_calcs.strike_damage - http://git.io/JpAIxQ
20121104 18:29:58< mattsc> Alarantalara: sounds great.  Thanks!
20121104 18:32:53< Alarantalara> Of course you can do something special for the last turn of the game - after all, there won't be any retaliation if you're checking for it on the next turn
20121104 18:37:31< mattsc> True.  I'll try to keep that in mind for when I get there.
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20121104 20:35:22< irker350> AI-Demos: Alarantalara master * re1ac52d / CHANGELOG : Add note to changelog regarding effect of version detection bug fix - http://git.io/H9t0ZQ
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20121104 22:02:25< mattsc> Alarantalara: we should probably put out a new release soon just because of that ^ bug (even though Fred is pretty messed up at the moment)
20121104 22:02:51< mattsc> Most of the comments we got in the forum post this morning are likely caused by that.
20121104 22:03:01< Alarantalara> All of them are
20121104 22:03:11< Alarantalara> except the HttT one
20121104 22:03:51< mattsc> That - and the AIs starting moving in Bottleneck is not a bug, I think.
20121104 22:03:59< mattsc> stopping to move, I mean
20121104 22:06:51< Alarantalara> Oh yes. I think that happened to me once a long time ago.
20121104 22:07:59< mattsc> I've seen it too, but it usually works itself out again when it turns night.  It happens when the RCA AI has only wounded units and doesn't want to attack.
20121104 22:08:29< mattsc> The Bottleneck AI is instructed to hold the pass, so as long as it isn't attacked, it will just sit there, doing exactly what it should.
20121104 22:08:56< mattsc> I think that can be "fixed" by setting the aggression for the RCA AI to 1
20121104 22:09:53< mattsc> Any objections to putting out a new release tonight (together with a message that Fred's not quite himself at the moment)?
20121104 22:10:10< Alarantalara> I noticed it happening when all the units were full strength when I was defending. I think it happened after I had leveled several units.
20121104 22:11:07< mattsc> Hmm, ok, I can see how that could be the case.  But that would also be taken care of with a higher aggression setting.
20121104 22:11:23< Alarantalara> Fred seemed to be doing reasonably well when I played a game recently. Though that was before yesterday's commits.
20121104 22:12:14< Alarantalara> Anyway, I have no objections. Ron's recruiting is a bit worse right now, but I don't see myself fixing that soon.
20121104 22:12:27< mattsc> Nothing in yesterday's commits should have changed any of that.
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20121104 22:12:55< mattsc> Fred seems to be doing as well as ever against the RCA AI also, but he consistently loses to Ron at the moment.
20121104 22:13:13< mattsc> Of course that could be because of all your improvements to Ron!
20121104 22:13:56< mattsc> Anyways, is your part of the changelog up to date?  I won't commit for several hours, so no rush if it's not.
20121104 22:14:10< Alarantalara> I believe it is. I'll check to be certain though.
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20121104 22:14:42< mattsc> Ok.  I'll probably upload a new version sometime tonight then.
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20121104 22:16:41< irker350> AI-Demos: Alarantalara master * re9b70aa / CHANGELOG : More changelog updates - http://git.io/3lQt8g
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20121104 23:54:07< irker350> AI-Demos: mattsc master * rb0d90fc / scenarios/bottleneck-defense.cfg : Bottleneck Defense: make RCA AI side more aggressive - http://git.io/vtRv7Q
--- Log closed Mon Nov 05 00:00:24 2012