--- Log opened Tue Nov 06 00:00:41 2012
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20121106 01:09:34< irker817> AI-Demos: mattsc master * r1fac509 / lua/battle_calcs.lua : battle_calcs.battle_outcome: add average HP - http://git.io/_FI6HQ
20121106 01:25:00< irker817> AI-Demos: mattsc master * rff28f22 / lua/battle_calcs.lua : battle_calcs.unit_attack_info: keep only number/string fields - http://git.io/SK86Tg
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20121106 03:05:06< skyfaller> mattsc, Alarantalara: how's it going? :)
20121106 03:05:53< Alarantalara> Reasonably well. I've managed to improve Loyalist performance at the expense of Rebels
20121106 03:06:19< skyfaller> what did you do?
20121106 03:06:24< Alarantalara> But that seems to be because Ron's a bit scout happy at the moment, so that should be easy to fix
20121106 03:06:47< skyfaller> generally the AIs shouldn't need as many scouts as a human player, because you can always see the board in its entirety
20121106 03:06:51< Alarantalara> I told Ron to not exaggerate the differences in defense
20121106 03:07:08< skyfaller> scouts are really for village stealing and running down mortally injured units
20121106 03:07:40< Alarantalara> And not falling behind in Cynsaun, and initial village capturing
20121106 03:07:51< Alarantalara> And then there are cavalrymen
20121106 03:08:17< Alarantalara> And sometimes getting an extra unit to the front in an initial rush
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20121106 03:09:06< skyfaller> fair enough, but all else equal if I play without fog I would prefer units that give you more HP and damage for your buck
20121106 03:09:42< skyfaller> I always have lots of scouts when I play with fog on as a human because I hate being blind, information is key in winning
20121106 03:10:05< Alarantalara> Definitely. I need to do something about the initial recruit to capture villages quickly, and that should let me reduce the number some more
20121106 03:10:47< skyfaller> would you like to play a game? We could do Cynsaun battlefield if you're concerned about AI strategy there
20121106 03:11:24< Alarantalara> This is going to take awhile, isn't it?
20121106 03:11:28< skyfaller> hahaha
20121106 03:11:33< skyfaller> depends :)
20121106 03:12:18< Alarantalara> Sure, why not
20121106 03:12:51< skyfaller> Alarantalara: 1.10 or 1.11?
20121106 03:13:05< skyfaller> since Ron and Fred are now being developed for 1.11...
20121106 03:13:19< Alarantalara> There are no balance changes in 1.11 yet, so it shouldn't matter
20121106 03:13:42< Alarantalara> So, since I'm already logged in in 1.10, I pick that one
20121106 03:13:45< skyfaller> ok :)
20121106 03:14:10< skyfaller> Alarantalara: ladder or friendly?
20121106 03:14:28< Alarantalara> I can do ladder and give you some more points :)
20121106 03:32:13< irker817> AI-Demos: mattsc master * rc207b8f / lua/battle_calcs.lua : battle_calcs.unit_attack_info: set flags for the weapon specials - http://git.io/mYtqdQ
20121106 03:36:49< irker817> AI-Demos: mattsc master * rac23b4e / lua/battle_calcs.lua : battle_calcs.strike_damage: also return other attack information - http://git.io/cHWBwA
20121106 03:41:10< irker817> AI-Demos: mattsc master * r5e65cf2 / lua/battle_calcs.lua : battle_calcs.battle_outcome: take firststrike into account - http://git.io/MiqswQ
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20121106 04:21:28< mattsc> skyfaller: it's going.  This battle_calcs stuff is slow going (and I've been sick, so I'm not exactly at full effectiveness)
20121106 04:30:20< irker817> AI-Demos: mattsc master * r3a91bed / lua/battle_calcs.lua : battle_calcs.unit_attack_info: add 'unitinfo' to cache id - http://git.io/3fUeNQ
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20121106 04:36:32< irker817> AI-Demos: mattsc master * r30a4f73 / lua/battle_calcs.lua : Add a comment - http://git.io/JNG3Zw
20121106 04:50:18< irker817> AI-Demos: mattsc master * r8d968e8 / lua/battle_calcs.lua : battle_calcs.battle_outcome_coefficients: enable caching of results - http://git.io/buk07Q
20121106 04:52:20< mattsc> Alarantalara, skyfaller: I'm not done optimizing yet (but also not quite done adding features), but with this last commit, my battle outcome calculations are now faster (over large sets of combats) than wesnoth.simulate_combat.
20121106 04:53:44< Alarantalara> It will be interesting if I can patch wesnoth to change that
20121106 05:06:37< skyfaller> patch Wesnoth to catch up with mattsc's calculations? But are we using approximations here or calculating it out all the way?
20121106 05:07:26< Alarantalara> I can expose more of the C++ code to Lua, which may allow for some things to be done faster while remaining completely accurate (like swarm)
20121106 05:09:06< mattsc> skyfaller: the calculations are accurate for cases in which they apply.  They just don't take all specials into account.
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--- Log opened Tue Nov 06 08:17:39 2012
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20121106 08:17:47-!- Topic for #wesnoth-umc-dev: Wesnoth-UMC-Dev Project discussion and support channel | http://wesnoth-umc-dev.ai0867.net | Staff: AI0867, Espreon | Blog: http://wesnoth-umc-dev.ai0867.net/blog/ | IRC logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org, http://irclogs.ai0867.net
20121106 08:17:47-!- Topic set by shadowm [] [Mon Aug 27 11:27:23 2012]
20121106 08:17:47[Users #wesnoth-umc-dev]
20121106 08:17:47[@ChanServ    ] [ Cookie   ] [ irker817   ] [ Lukc     ] [ vultraz  ] 
20121106 08:17:47[+shikadibot  ] [ Espreon  ] [ iwaim_     ] [ melinath ] [ wesbot   ] 
20121106 08:17:47[ AI0867      ] [ esr      ] [ janebot    ] [ noy      ] [ zookeeper] 
20121106 08:17:47[ Alarantalara] [ fendrin_ ] [ lobby      ] [ shadowm  ] 
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20121106 08:17:48-!- Home page for #wesnoth-umc-dev: http://wesnoth-umc-dev.ai0867.net
20121106 08:18:06-!- Channel #wesnoth-umc-dev created Mon Mar 31 16:51:24 2008
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20121106 15:09:45< irker687> AI-Demos: Alarantalara master * rd5533a5 / lua/generic-rush_engine.lua : Increase radius to account for 6MP leaders - http://git.io/sSKm3g
20121106 15:09:45< irker687> AI-Demos: Alarantalara master * rf70f3aa / lua/generic-rush_engine.lua : Don't bounce around multiple keeps in small castles - http://git.io/8PZ0dg
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20121106 15:50:49< irker687> AI-Demos: mattsc master * rc2dc158 / lua/battle_calcs.lua : battle_calcs.battle_outcome: don't allow max_hits > enemy strikes - http://git.io/V4c8MA
20121106 16:14:26< irker687> AI-Demos: mattsc master * r90ee71e / lua/battle_calcs.lua : battle_outcome: move calculation of HP distribution into function - http://git.io/c_M2MA
20121106 16:24:21< irker687> AI-Demos: mattsc master * rcac81ce / lua/battle_calcs.lua : hp_distribution: skip calculation of longest term - http://git.io/1UXkSg
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20121106 17:09:41< irker687> AI-Demos: mattsc master * r9b6d613 / lua/battle_calcs.lua : battle_outcome: add poisoned/slowed probability - http://git.io/QLZheg
20121106 17:23:19< irker687> AI-Demos: mattsc master * rd018872 / lua/battle_calcs.lua : unit_attack_info: make chance_to_hit a probabilty - http://git.io/XvVKAw
20121106 17:30:42< irker687> AI-Demos: mattsc master * r771be26 / lua/battle_calcs.lua : battle_outcome: take magical and marksman into account - http://git.io/ZgAL7Q
20121106 17:31:48< mattsc> Ugh!  forgot that marksman only works offensively ...   ^
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20121106 17:34:43< skyfaller> lol!
20121106 17:35:24< skyfaller> yeah, I always imagine marksman as the elf patiently sniping at you from a tree
20121106 17:35:38< skyfaller> and if you're attacking him it ruins his concentration
20121106 17:37:28< mattsc> Makes sense to me.
20121106 17:37:56< mattsc> And it's not hard to fix in my code, it just means that I have to distinguish between magical and marksman
20121106 17:41:22< irker687> AI-Demos: mattsc master * r929187d / lua/battle_calcs.lua : unit_attack_info: distinguish between magical and marksman - http://git.io/lPvqhQ
20121106 17:54:19< irker687> AI-Demos: mattsc master * r822c52e / lua/battle_calcs.lua : battle_outcome: correctly take magical and marksman into account - http://git.io/B7jJfQ
20121106 17:57:07< skyfaller> I just want to know how mages maintain *their* magical concentration under fire
20121106 17:59:11< skyfaller> the character art for the mage shows him/her reading from a book
20121106 17:59:35< skyfaller> how can you read a book when someone is trying to shoot you with an arrow? How can you dodge attacks while reading a book?
20121106 18:14:23< irker687> AI-Demos: mattsc master * r32fbbb0 / lua/battle_calcs.lua : strike_damage: return both attacker and defender strike damage - http://git.io/CYU51Q
20121106 18:15:23< mattsc> skyfaller: that's only for dramatic effect in the illustration.  Once a mage is ready to go into battle, he doesn't need the book any more  :D
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20121106 18:20:40< irker687> AI-Demos: mattsc master * r5d9e042 / lua/battle_calcs.lua : strike_damage: take charge into account - http://git.io/rLZW7w
20121106 18:22:41< AI0867> 17:59 < skyfaller> how can you read a book when someone is trying to shoot you with an arrow? How can you dodge attacks while reading a book? <-- that's what hardcover books are for
20121106 18:23:22< AI0867> first it has to penetrate leather-covered wood, and then there's a ton of pages to punch through
20121106 18:28:14< mattsc> skyfaller, Alarantalara, AI0867, anybody: which direction is the strike damage to be rounded when it comes out to 22.5?
20121106 18:29:34< mattsc> This is a horseman on a grunt during the day: 9 * 2 * 1.25 = 22.5
20121106 18:30:02< mattsc> I'd call that 23, but Wesnoth says 22.
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20121106 18:31:34< mattsc> On the other hand, strong grunt on grunt during the day: 10 * 0.75 = 7.5 and Wesnoth does use 8
20121106 18:31:59< mattsc> Is this caused by rounding errors?
20121106 18:34:07< mattsc> As in, the 22.5 in the first case comes out to 22.49999999999999
20121106 18:37:43< AI0867> could be
20121106 18:37:49< AI0867> dunno, look at the code?
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20121106 19:18:36< skyfaller> mattsc: I remember it rounds one way in some circumstances and the other way in other circumstances, i.e. it is intentional
20121106 19:19:36< skyfaller> I think it rounds down at favorable times of day and rounds up at unfavorable times of day?
20121106 19:19:48< mattsc> skyfaller: any idea why?  Or whom to ask about that?
20121106 19:19:48< skyfaller> I can't remember where I was reading this discussion
20121106 19:21:00< mattsc> The reason why I am asking (and found this in the first place) is because there's a discrepancy between my battle_outcome and what wesnoth says.
20121106 19:22:50< skyfaller> sorry, I'm stumped as to where I read this or who would know... try a top ladder player like Rigor or TBS?
20121106 19:22:55< mattsc> I've looked at the code and there's indeed an if statement in round_damage(), but I haven't figured out the details yet.
20121106 19:23:12< mattsc> Ok, will do.  Thanks.
20121106 19:23:21< mattsc> I really need to stop this for right now anyway.
20121106 19:27:22< skyfaller> I think it's just to prevent units from becoming totally ineffective at bad times of day, or too godlike during their powerphase
20121106 19:27:39< mattsc> skyfaller, AI0867, Alarantalara  : Well, what's going on is: if the combined multiplier due to TOD, leadership and resistance is > 1, it rounds down, if it's smaller than 1, it rounds up.
20121106 19:28:00< skyfaller> ah, yes, that is what I remembered
20121106 19:28:17< mattsc> weapons specials such as charge are not part of that multiplier, but count into the "base damage"
20121106 19:28:52< mattsc> skyfaller: yes, that explanation makes sense.
20121106 19:29:09< mattsc> Well, now that I know what's going on, I can change my code accordingly.  But not now ...
20121106 20:04:41< mattsc> skyfaller: just thought of another reason.
20121106 20:04:53< skyfaller> what's that?
20121106 20:04:59< mattsc> Imagine a grunt with 10 HP damage per strike.
20121106 20:05:16< mattsc> He'd get -2 during the day, but +3 at night, if you round mathematically
20121106 20:07:01< skyfaller> so what's wrong with that?
20121106 20:07:49< mattsc> My guess is that people feel it should be symmetric (and I'd be in that camp too, actually)
20121106 20:08:01< skyfaller> that makes sense
20121106 20:09:20< mattsc> Anyways, whatever the reason, now that I know how it's done, it's easy to adapt my code.
20121106 20:11:05< mattsc> Btw, currently I get anywhere between ~20% and a factor 10 faster results from my code, compared to wesnoth.simulate_combat, depending on how "complicated" the calculation is.
20121106 20:12:20< mattsc> The more complicated, the bigger the improvement (and this does not mean things like berserk or drain, but how many strikes and how many possible combinations of a unit dying there are)
20121106 20:49:37< skyfaller> that sounds good :)
20121106 21:18:51< irker687> AI-Demos: mattsc master * rcbfd1bf / lua/battle_calcs.lua : strike_damage: round damage according to Wesnoth rules - http://git.io/9glzJw
20121106 22:02:21< irker687> AI-Demos: mattsc master * r611b1d9 / lua/battle_calcs.lua : battle_outcome: take swarm into account - http://git.io/-7K1_A
20121106 22:02:35< mattsc> skyfaller: ^ no problem.
20121106 22:02:53< mattsc> Just a little slow for full health cuttlefish against full health cuttlefish
20121106 22:05:12< mattsc> In principle, I could also do berserk in this way, but then the number of possible combinations gets too big to be practical, so I have to come up with a different way of doing that.
20121106 22:06:44< skyfaller> mattsc: can you explain this code to me real quick? I'm a little slow
20121106 22:06:56< mattsc> which part?
20121106 22:06:59< skyfaller> swarm
20121106 22:07:09< skyfaller> your latest commit
20121106 22:08:02< mattsc> lines 570 and 573 are really all there's to it.
20121106 22:08:15< mattsc> The rest is just changing the syntax so that this works.
20121106 22:08:34< mattsc> You change the number of strikes the unit has based on the ratio of hp/max_hp
20121106 22:09:02< skyfaller> what is math.floor?
20121106 22:09:03< mattsc> And in this case, you always round down (I checked), that's what math.floor does
20121106 22:09:12< skyfaller> aha
20121106 22:09:50< skyfaller> ok, I think I get it
20121106 22:09:53< skyfaller> thanks
20121106 22:10:33< mattsc> So, in principle, I could do berserk by giving the unit 120 hits.
20121106 22:10:48< mattsc> In principle, that won't work that way...
20121106 22:11:02< mattsc> Sorry: In practice it won't work that way
20121106 22:12:29< mattsc> So, I need a solution for berserk and drain.
20121106 22:12:42< skyfaller> well, wouldn't there be a complicated interaction between the beserker's strikes and the beserk'd strikes?
20121106 22:12:58< skyfaller> like, if I berserk an assassin
20121106 22:13:02< mattsc> plague and leveling-up are taken care of separately.  And backstab and leadership aren't included yet anyway.
20121106 22:13:06< skyfaller> he doesn't get 120 strikes
20121106 22:13:20< skyfaller> he gets 30 max
20121106 22:13:41< mattsc> He goes through 30 rounds of 4 strikes each = 120
20121106 22:14:04< skyfaller> but an assassin only gets 1 strike to each 4 strikes of an ulf
20121106 22:14:17< skyfaller> so the ulf gets 120 strikes
20121106 22:14:27< skyfaller> but the assassin in a confrontation against an ulf only gets 30
20121106 22:14:27< mattsc> skyfaller: oh, you're right about the interaction between the strikes.
20121106 22:14:40< mattsc> Right.  So my method wouldn't work anyway...
20121106 22:15:09< skyfaller> well, I guess that isn't really an interaction
20121106 22:15:30< skyfaller> it's just the strikes for each berserker or berserkee depends on how many strikes they would get in 30 rounds
20121106 22:16:01< skyfaller> but I feel like there must be some interaction between the berserker and the berserkee? 
20121106 22:16:22< mattsc> Yes.  It does depend on the order.
20121106 22:16:34< mattsc> You cannot just simulate 120 vs 40 strikes.
20121106 22:16:48< mattsc> You need to do sets of 4 vs. 1
20121106 22:16:52< skyfaller> exactly
20121106 22:17:05< skyfaller> you don't get 40 vs. 40 and then 80 free hits
20121106 22:17:09< mattsc> So yes, it's complicated.
20121106 22:17:44< mattsc> But then, the number of strikes is too much for my algorithm to handle anyway, so it's a moot point.
20121106 22:17:58< skyfaller> just pointing out that it wouldn't have worked in theory anyway, so don't be sad ;-)
20121106 22:18:09< mattsc> Right.  Thanks.
20121106 22:18:30< mattsc> Although the code could be adjusted to handle that.  And drain.
20121106 22:18:44< mattsc> But I am tempted to just fall back to wesnoth.simulate combat in those cases.
20121106 22:21:24< mattsc> In any case, berserk and drain are all that's left.  Everything else is either done or irrelevant (at this stage)
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--- Log closed Wed Nov 07 00:00:23 2012