--- Log opened Sat Nov 24 00:00:52 2012
20121124 00:02:21< irker140> wesnoth-umc-dev: battlestarooo * r16235 /trunk/Scarlet_Sea/images/ (19 files in 2 dirs): 
20121124 00:02:22< irker140> wesnoth-umc-dev: update 11/23/12
20121124 00:05:21< irker140> wesnoth-umc-dev: battlestarooo * r16236 /trunk/Scarlet_Sea/images/ (42 files in 6 dirs): 
20121124 00:05:21< irker140> wesnoth-umc-dev: update 11/23/12
20121124 00:06:59< irker140> wesnoth-umc-dev: battlestarooo * r16237 /trunk/Scarlet_Sea/maps: 
20121124 00:06:59< irker140> wesnoth-umc-dev: update 11/23/12
20121124 00:07:39< irker140> wesnoth-umc-dev: battlestarooo * r16238 /trunk/Scarlet_Sea/ (9 files in 2 dirs): 
20121124 00:07:39< irker140> wesnoth-umc-dev: update 11/23/12
20121124 00:10:01< mattsc> Alarantalara: nice!
20121124 00:11:10< irker140> wesnoth-umc-dev: battlestarooo * r16239 /trunk/Scarlet_Sea/scenarios/Prologue-3.cfg: 
20121124 00:11:11< irker140> wesnoth-umc-dev: update 11/23/12
20121124 00:12:14< irker140> wesnoth-umc-dev: battlestarooo * r16240 /trunk/Scarlet_Sea/scenarios: 
20121124 00:12:15< irker140> wesnoth-umc-dev: update 11/23/12
20121124 00:13:11< irker140> wesnoth-umc-dev: battlestarooo * r16241 /trunk/Scarlet_Sea/ (8 files in 3 dirs): 
20121124 00:13:12< irker140> wesnoth-umc-dev: update 11/23/12
20121124 00:14:28< irker140> wesnoth-umc-dev: battlestarooo * r16242 /trunk/Scarlet_Sea/story: 
20121124 00:14:29< irker140> wesnoth-umc-dev: update 11/23/12
20121124 00:16:18< irker140> wesnoth-umc-dev: battlestarooo * r16243 /trunk/Scarlet_Sea/ (4 files in 2 dirs): 
20121124 00:16:18< irker140> wesnoth-umc-dev: update 11/23/12
20121124 00:16:54< irker140> wesnoth-umc-dev: battlestarooo * r16244 /trunk/Scarlet_Sea/units: 
20121124 00:16:54< irker140> wesnoth-umc-dev: update 11/23/12
20121124 00:17:33< irker140> wesnoth-umc-dev: battlestarooo * r16245 /trunk/Scarlet_Sea/ (16 files in 7 dirs): 
20121124 00:17:36< irker140> wesnoth-umc-dev: update 11/23/12
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20121124 00:48:58< mattsc> AI0867, Alarantalara, skyfaller et al.: I have the patch pretty much ready: http://pastebin.com/492iRSA9
20121124 00:49:25< irker140> wesnoth-umc-dev: battlestarooo * r16246 /trunk/Scarlet_Sea/units/_units.cfg: 
20121124 00:49:58< mattsc> This changes all occurrences of "testing ai" in one form or another to "default ai"; for anybody who does not loook into the C++ code, that is.
20121124 00:50:07< irker140> wesnoth-umc-dev: battlestarooo * r16247 /trunk/Scarlet_Sea/units/_units.cfg: 
20121124 00:50:07< irker140> wesnoth-umc-dev: update 11/23/12
20121124 00:50:37< mattsc> Well, there's one place left, but I think it requires a change in the source code that I am not sure about.
20121124 00:51:38< mattsc> As per Crab's suggestion, I kept the old syntax as well, so that add-ons using it do not break.
20121124 00:54:08< irker140> wesnoth-umc-dev: doofus-01 * r16248 /trunk/Bad_Moon_Rising/scenarios2/1_03_Camp.cfg: 
20121124 00:54:08< irker140> wesnoth-umc-dev: cosmetic adjustments to scenario Camp
20121124 00:55:11< irker140> wesnoth-umc-dev: doofus-01 * r16249 /trunk/Bad_Moon_Rising/units/Raenna.cfg: 
20121124 00:55:11< irker140> wesnoth-umc-dev: update Raenna's animation, somewhat
20121124 00:58:50< irker140> wesnoth-umc-dev: doofus-01 * r16250 /trunk/Bad_Moon_Rising/utils/shops.cfg: 
20121124 00:58:51< irker140> wesnoth-umc-dev: upgrades are no longer 'traits', just go into description.  This is not much of an improvement, it would be better if upgrade info could be accessed via the help menu, somehow.
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20121124 01:47:25< irker140> wesnoth-umc-dev: shikadilord * r16251 /trunk/After_the_Storm/sounds/ambient/ (dark-1.ogg dark-2.ogg): 
20121124 01:47:26< irker140> wesnoth-umc-dev: AtS: add stuff
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20121124 06:34:54< irker140> wesnoth-umc-dev: doofus-01 * r16252 /trunk/Bad_Moon_Rising/ (17 files in 4 dirs): 
20121124 06:34:54< irker140> wesnoth-umc-dev: two unrelated things (sorry): 1. updated cutscene between Fort & Defend   2. Adding right-click status menu, only in Part II (for now), and only deals with Shop-bought equipment, (for now)
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20121124 17:04:28< mattsc> AI0867, Alarantalara, skyfaller: I posted the patch: https://gna.org/patch/index.php?3570
20121124 17:05:28< mattsc> I don't think I have the powers to assign this to somebody.
20121124 17:37:33< Alarantalara> mattsc, skyfaller: I've allowed Fred to play as any faction. Needless to say, Fred is really bad if the faction is loyal and fighting chaotic enemies
20121124 17:40:01< AI0867> does ron have heuristics for that?
20121124 17:40:09< Alarantalara> no
20121124 17:40:12< AI0867> or is it hardcoded in?
20121124 17:40:21< AI0867> or does he just ignore the whole idea?
20121124 17:40:28< Alarantalara> Ron uses the RCA AI for attacking right now
20121124 17:40:33< AI0867> right
20121124 17:40:35< Alarantalara> Fred is hardcoded
20121124 17:40:44< AI0867> still, it's also relevant for retreating and such
20121124 17:41:25< Alarantalara> since Fred was originally only Northerners, so the attack retreat timing is assumed chaotic
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20121124 17:53:56< mattsc> IIRC, changing the faction specific things should be relatively easy to change in Fred.
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20121124 17:54:12< mattsc> The map-specific parts are much harder to get rid of.
20121124 17:54:34< mattsc> I'll have a look into that.
20121124 17:56:15< mattsc> AI0867: could you give the irker a kick from us?
20121124 18:02:29< mattsc> Alarantalara: cool.  Was that Ron playing the Loyalists?
20121124 18:02:38< Alarantalara> yes
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20121124 18:06:22< mattsc> Alarantalara: we should also change the descriptions of Ron/Fred in the ais/ directory.  But I am unsure to what.
20121124 18:06:46< mattsc> Rush AI still makes sense for Ron, I think, but not necessarily for Fred.
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20121124 18:08:06< un214> wake me up when you're ready to face the glacier again
20121124 18:08:16< mattsc> We should have something that makes sense for people for selection from the MP menu.
20121124 18:10:41< Alarantalara> indeeed
20121124 18:14:28< mattsc> This could be a job for 007.  But he
20121124 18:14:32< mattsc> 's not around right now
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20121124 18:14:48< irker198> test
20121124 18:16:49< irker198> AI-Demos: Alarantalara master * re6db231 / lua/grunt-rush-Freelands-S1_engine.lua : Retreat higher level units sooner - http://git.io/reQhAA
20121124 18:16:50< irker198> AI-Demos: Alarantalara master * r86e9255 / lua/grunt-rush-Freelands-S1_engine.lua : Actually retreat higher level units sooner - http://git.io/qiMD1g
20121124 18:19:09< mattsc> Alarantalara: unit.__cfg is slow
20121124 18:19:27< Alarantalara> I know, but level isn't available in the proxy table
20121124 18:20:02< mattsc> wesnoth.unit_types[unit.type].level is much faster
20121124 18:20:10< Alarantalara> really?
20121124 18:20:15< Alarantalara> that's distrubing
20121124 18:20:16< mattsc> yep.
20121124 18:21:41< irker198> AI-Demos: Alarantalara master * rdebe8d3 / lua/grunt-rush-Freelands-S1_engine.lua : Improve speed as explained by mattsc - http://git.io/pmfGJg
20121124 18:27:24< Alarantalara> mattsc: Fred refuses to attack from a hex that he currently occupies. It's as though he must move a unit before attacking with it
20121124 18:27:48< Alarantalara> This is causing movement off of villages which gives them up to the opponent
20121124 18:28:01< Alarantalara> when the opponent is adjacent to the village
20121124 18:28:10< Alarantalara> it also moves to worse terrain
20121124 18:28:17< un214> man that would make glacier so easy as he'd never be able to attack
20121124 18:29:54< mattsc> Alarantalara: yes, I've noticed something along those lines, but I hadn't pinpointed the exact cause yet.  Thanks.
20121124 18:30:56< mattsc> It's likely that he uses the wrong version of or parameters for get_attacks or something.
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20121124 18:37:37< irker198> AI-Demos: Alarantalara master * racaa418 / (ais/ai_generic-rush.cfg ais/ai_grunt-rush-Freelands-S1.cfg): Slightly change descriptions of Fred and Ron - http://git.io/s_VIKg
20121124 18:38:11< mattsc> Alarantalara: for determining the right TOD of attack/retreat, should we go with the alignment of the leader?  Or the average of the units on the map?
20121124 18:38:31< Alarantalara> Majority of units in zone
20121124 18:38:56< Alarantalara> Drakes could theoretically be advancing with chaotic units on one side while retreating with lawful units on the other
20121124 18:39:50< mattsc> Yeah ...  Needs to be set once at the beginning of the actions for the zone though, otherwise the loyal units in the zone might attack, and then be deserted by the rest of them.
20121124 18:39:58< mattsc> I think I can do that.
20121124 18:40:21< Alarantalara> I'd also be tempted to switch it to relative damage, since in chaotic vs chaotic matches, time doesn't matter very much
20121124 18:40:33< mattsc> s/loyal/lawful
20121124 18:40:49< mattsc> true.
20121124 18:43:51< Alarantalara> And, by using damage, you might be able to get Northerners to attack Undead during the day using fearless trolls since the relative damage would be better then
20121124 18:45:46< mattsc> Just to confirm that we're on the same page: by relative damage you mean damage done vs. damage received for all units in a zone?
20121124 18:45:56< Alarantalara> yes
20121124 18:47:00< un214> trolls get fearless now? nice.
20121124 18:50:05< Alarantalara> They've had it for 6 years
20121124 18:51:03< Alarantalara> so since version 1.1
20121124 18:54:20< mattsc> Alarantalara: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=37943
20121124 18:54:48< mattsc> That's a really easy CA to write.  Do you know if it's out there somewhere already or should I offer to do it?
20121124 18:55:35< mattsc> I know that ... maybe Coffee (or somebody like that) did a brief 2/3 ratio recruiting FAI CA somewhere, but I think that required the two unit types to be know up front.
20121124 18:56:09< Alarantalara> SeattleDad wrote something that did that, but I don't know if it's available anywhere
20121124 18:57:54< Alarantalara> It is: ml_ai_general, line 140
20121124 18:58:59< mattsc> yeah, I just found it.
20121124 19:00:04< mattsc> could be simplified a bit for the purpose of the forum post and is pretty much how I would have done it.
20121124 19:01:53< mattsc> Do you want to do it or should I?  (I'm fine with doing it, just not right now.)
20121124 19:03:02< Alarantalara> You might be the better choice. I'd probably forget some part of setting up the ai
20121124 19:04:48< mattsc> Not sure about that, but no problem.  Actually, I think I am going to reply first and ask whether he wants to be able to use this on any map, or on a specific map.  Same code, implementation slightly different.
20121124 19:07:44< Alarantalara> I'd guess per map: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=35062#p508582
20121124 19:09:42< Alarantalara> Actually, based on that thread, you might just want to point him to Ron
20121124 19:10:30< mattsc> What do we have documented about Ron?
20121124 19:10:48< Alarantalara> Not enough I suspect
20121124 19:11:01< mattsc> Also, is the last released version very different from the current github version?
20121124 19:11:07< Alarantalara> Yes
20121124 19:11:27< mattsc> So I should point him to the github site.
20121124 19:12:05< Alarantalara> The last released version doesn't have the ability to win 100% on Arcanclave against the RCA AI
20121124 19:12:18< mattsc> :)
20121124 19:12:26< Alarantalara> + there's that replay issue that's now fixed
20121124 19:12:31< mattsc> Actually, it sounds like you should reply to the post.  ;)
20121124 19:12:40< Alarantalara> sure
20121124 19:13:17< mattsc> Also, with the replay issue fixed, should we start on putting Ron into trunk?
20121124 19:13:47< mattsc> (umm, bad grammar, but I hope you understand)
20121124 19:13:50< Alarantalara> That or release a new version. There has been no release with the ML recruiter present either
20121124 19:14:40< mattsc> We should definitely release a new version soon.  I've been waiting for SD to get back on my question concerning the ML recruiter, but he hasn't been here for a while.
20121124 19:15:33< irker198> AI-Demos: Alarantalara master * r57bb595 / CHANGELOG : Update changelog - http://git.io/-GnkAw
20121124 19:15:35< mattsc> I think that putting Ron into trunk is something we could do in parallel with new AI-Demos versions - if we decide he's ready and others agree with this
20121124 19:15:52< Alarantalara> I think he's in a non-embarrasing state
20121124 19:16:05< mattsc> agreed
20121124 19:16:35< mattsc> Btw, I asked Crab whether he has time to review the patch, otherwise I might request to have it assigned to you or AI0867 
20121124 19:17:10< mattsc> unless one of the two of you (or somebody else) wants to pick it up in the first place
20121124 19:18:11< Alarantalara> I'd want to understand the entire C++ AI first, so it would be a long while
20121124 19:23:22< mattsc> As for moving Ron into trunk, we essentially need the ai.cfg, the engine, and a couple lua helper functions, right?
20121124 19:35:41< Alarantalara> mattsc: did I miss anything obvious? http://pastebin.com/EXYqZ6N6
20121124 19:36:10< Alarantalara> Two engine files, but that does sound like everything
20121124 19:36:32< mattsc> Oh, you even wrote the code?  Cool...
20121124 19:37:20< Alarantalara> Yes, the one file version
20121124 19:37:42< Alarantalara> Terrible for debugging, but it's a simple enough AI
20121124 19:38:04< mattsc> Right.  Without looking through it in too much detail, this looks good.
20121124 19:38:34< mattsc> The only thing I can come up with is that it won't recruit a cheaper unit if the one randomly selected is too expensive.
20121124 19:38:57< mattsc> But you could call that a feature.
20121124 19:39:31< Alarantalara> Indeed I could
20121124 19:39:58< mattsc> Well, let me retreat that: if it were me, I'd call that a feature.  :)
20121124 19:40:07< mattsc> s/retreat/repharse
20121124 19:40:57< Alarantalara> I'm calling it "easier than listing all units that are cheap enough to recruit and then selecting one randomly"
20121124 19:41:16< mattsc> Makes sense to me.
20121124 19:41:27< mattsc> Alarantalara: do you have a specific example when Fred moved units off villages to attack?
20121124 19:41:44< mattsc> Because in this case, he certainly attacks from the village: http://imagebin.org/237048
20121124 19:41:45< Alarantalara> I should have saved my replays :(
20121124 19:42:20< mattsc> Sometimes he moves them off for doing trapping attacks, when he couldn't do trapping instead because he cannot get another unit onto the other side.
20121124 19:42:36< mattsc> That should still be discouraged...
20121124 19:42:50< Alarantalara> That wouldn't have been the case. It was a single unit in the bottom right that made me really notice it
20121124 19:43:21< mattsc> Oh, and another thing he does sometimes is just move a unit away to try to retreat, but only be able to move one hex, and then the RCA AI does an attack at the end.
20121124 19:43:48< mattsc> I also need to fix that, but it's not technically moving off a village in order to attack
20121124 19:43:54< Alarantalara> I'll go looking
20121124 19:44:13< mattsc> Ok, if you see another example, I'd appreciate a screen grab or a replay.
20121124 19:44:28< mattsc> I'm aware of those two I mentioned and they are on my list to be fixed.
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20121124 20:09:58< Alarantalara> Everything I've seen so far looks like it was retreat related and getting stuck due to being pinned, then attacking
20121124 20:16:05< mattsc> Ok.  Yes, I have seen that happen and am aware of it.  It's on the list to be fixed.
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20121124 22:02:37< irker198> AI-Demos: Alarantalara master * ra42ead4 / lua/generic-recruit_engine.lua : Remove unguarded print statement used to debug max_cost issue - http://git.io/uFPdUA
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20121124 22:22:31< irker198> wesnoth-umc-dev: espreon * r16253 /trunk/Invasion_from_the_Unknown/macros/storytxt.cfg: 
20121124 22:22:31< irker198> wesnoth-umc-dev: IftU: removed a BOM.
20121124 22:22:49< Espreon> vultraz: Would you please make your editor not insert BOMs?
20121124 22:23:35< vultraz> I dunno how
20121124 22:23:42< vultraz> how do you tell Notepad not to?
20121124 22:24:19< Espreon> ... Stop using Notepad.
20121124 22:24:25< Espreon> Use Notepad++.
20121124 22:26:00< Espreon> vultraz: Please...?
20121124 22:26:05< irker198> AI-Demos: Alarantalara master * re8ff168 / CHANGELOG : Update changelog to include additions by SeattleDad - http://git.io/lny1QA
20121124 22:26:11< vultraz> where do I get that
20121124 22:26:24< Espreon> http://notepad-plus-plus.org/
20121124 22:29:59-!- mnewton1 [~mnewton1@c-76-99-170-226.hsd1.de.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev
20121124 22:43:41-!- Alarantalara [~Adium@CPEc0c1c09e8055-CM00252eac6d62.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
20121124 23:05:24< irker198> AI-Demos: mattsc master * r16e3ce1 / lua/generic-recruit_engine.lua : Put debug messages inside print_eval() rather than print_exec() - http://git.io/Q2vZPQ
20121124 23:05:33< vultraz> Espreon: how do you even find theme BOMs
20121124 23:05:49< Espreon> 1. Wesnoth bitches about them
20121124 23:06:00< Espreon> 2. I use a hex editor to see them
20121124 23:16:17< vultraz> a wut?
20121124 23:17:57-!- mnewton1 [~mnewton1@c-76-99-170-226.hsd1.de.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Rice and Corn]
20121124 23:25:50< irker198> AI-Demos: mattsc master * r601ffd0 / CHANGELOG : Update changelog - http://git.io/fwcA_w
20121124 23:28:45< irker198> wesnoth-umc-dev: shikadilord * r16254 /trunk/After_the_Storm/episode1/maps/ (5 files): 
20121124 23:28:46< irker198> wesnoth-umc-dev: AtS E1: minor map changes
20121124 23:30:07< irker198> wesnoth-umc-dev: shikadilord * r16255 /trunk/After_the_Storm/images/units/spirits/ (6 files): 
20121124 23:30:07< irker198> wesnoth-umc-dev: AtS: add Lumeril Glyph baseframe and death animation
20121124 23:30:40< irker198> AI-Demos: mattsc master * r56c600d / version.txt : Release of v0.12.0 - http://git.io/qfEP1Q
20121124 23:30:55< irker198> wesnoth-umc-dev: shikadilord * r16256 /trunk/After_the_Storm/images/ (2 files in 2 dirs): 
20121124 23:30:55< irker198> wesnoth-umc-dev: AtS: add Lumeril Glyph Mistress baseframe and halo
20121124 23:33:09< irker198> wesnoth-umc-dev: shikadilord * r16257 /trunk/After_the_Storm/images/items/crystal-communicator.png: 
20121124 23:33:10< irker198> wesnoth-umc-dev: AtS: add glyph artifact prop
20121124 23:36:45< irker198> wesnoth-umc-dev: shikadilord * r16258 /trunk/After_the_Storm/images/ (4 files in 2 dirs): 
20121124 23:36:46< irker198> wesnoth-umc-dev: AtS: add Master of Darkness baseframes and portraits from IftU
20121124 23:47:01< irker198> wesnoth-umc-dev: shikadilord * r16259 /trunk/AtS_Music/music/ (ambuscade-loop.ogg ambuscade-begin.ogg): 
20121124 23:47:02< irker198> wesnoth-umc-dev: AtSM: add looping version of Ambuscade
20121124 23:49:18< irker198> wesnoth-umc-dev: shikadilord * r16260 /trunk/AtS_Music/music/ (7 files): 
20121124 23:49:19< irker198> wesnoth-umc-dev: AtSM: umcpropfix pass
20121124 23:53:59< irker198> wesnoth-umc-dev: shikadilord * r16261 /trunk/After_the_Storm/ (17 files in 8 dirs): 
20121124 23:53:59< irker198> wesnoth-umc-dev: AtS: umcpropfix pass
--- Log closed Sun Nov 25 00:00:39 2012