--- Log opened Wed Dec 19 00:00:57 2012
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20121219 00:37:59< fendrin> AI0867: What do you think about https://gna.org/bugs/?19545 ?
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20121219 01:10:56< AI0867> fendrin: not sure
20121219 01:14:24< fendrin> AI0867: But you can give me an educated guess?
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20121219 01:50:17< AI0867> fendrin: the patch probably wouldn't hurt, but I'd consider adding some sort of limiter
20121219 01:50:31< AI0867> normal advancement has one too
20121219 01:59:30< fendrin> AI0867: A simple constant like 5?
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20121219 02:45:55< AI0867> fendrin: normal leveling fails to cascade if the remaining XP is more than 80, but whatever you think works
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20121219 15:38:19< vitiv> mattsc: I tested and pushed the lurker AI to my fork
20121219 15:38:21< vitiv> https://github.com/vitiv/Wesnoth-AI-Demos/commit/3a6bb9f06b32fca894abe35720014bf031c038d9
20121219 15:40:34< mattsc> vitiv: l.23 is missing an = sign, isn't it?
20121219 15:41:07< vitiv> 1.23?
20121219 15:41:32< mattsc> little L, not one.  Line.
20121219 15:42:10< vitiv> ow
20121219 15:42:26< vitiv> whoops
20121219 15:43:15< mattsc> Besides that, this looks good.
20121219 15:47:23< vitiv> mattsc: I amended the last commit, somehow, not sure if in the best manner possible
20121219 15:49:30< vitiv> I am currently debugging the sheep one, I get a "cfg(nil value)" in the AI demon
20121219 15:50:29< mattsc> vitiv: for the lurkers, when you're ready, put in a pull request.  You can do that for the lurkers separately, or for all of it together at the end.
20121219 15:51:01< vitiv> I think I'll batch them at the and
20121219 15:51:11< mattsc> sounds good.
20121219 15:51:12< vitiv> as soon as fix the sheep
20121219 15:51:21< mattsc> Concerning your error, that's not enough information for me to be able to help.
20121219 15:51:31< mattsc> Have you figured out how DBG.dbms works?
20121219 15:51:57< vitiv> ? not actually, I've been debugggin with print statements :D
20121219 15:52:24< mattsc> Well, try it.  It's extremely useful.
20121219 15:52:37< mattsc> But besides that, I do a lot of debugging with print statements also.
20121219 15:52:57< vitiv> Ok I'll check it out
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20121219 15:53:24< mattsc> Esp. for tables etc.  For scalar variables it doesn't really matter.
20121219 16:08:26< vitiv> mattsc, it appears that sheep do not receive any kind of "cfg" param from micro_ais_wml_tags.lua
20121219 16:10:09< mattsc> vitiv: there weren't any parameters so far, so it hasn't been set up.  Just add that to the CAs for which you need them.
20121219 16:10:33< vitiv> yep, adding the cfg_str right now
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20121219 16:32:59< vitiv> mattsc: regarding the sheep ai. the center of the herding area seems to be hardcoded  to 32,28 and there is some math involving this center. I think that the only way to properly preserve the behaviour is to separate these 2 coords for the rest of the filter
20121219 16:33:33< vitiv> is it allright?
20121219 16:33:44< vitiv> alright*
20121219 16:42:58< vitiv> sheep diff http://pastebin.com/EwWsDze4
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20121219 17:02:44< vitiv> mattsc: on big animals should "avoid_type" be simply a type list or unit filter?
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20121219 17:04:44< mattsc> vitiv: I think it's easy to make it a filter, right?  So I think it would be good to have that flexibility.
20121219 17:05:18< vitiv> well I already implemented it as a filter but wasn't sure about the requirements :D
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20121219 17:07:19< mattsc> You should take the "requirements" are guidelines only, with a lot of flexibility to do what works best.
20121219 17:07:39< mattsc> The only strict requirement is that you need to document what you do.  :)
20121219 17:08:24< vitiv> ok, I'll soon push these last two ais to my repo. Just a bit left on the big_animals'
20121219 17:09:14< mattsc> Do you want me to add time to your task?  You currently have 18 min left.
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20121219 17:30:27< vitiv> mattsc: my time expired
20121219 17:31:12< mattsc> vitiv: yes, see my comment up there ^, 20 min ago.
20121219 17:31:18< mattsc> You can just sign up for it again.
20121219 17:31:35< vitiv> oh, ok
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20121219 17:38:46< mattsc> vitiv: you should do so as soon as possible, because it is open for anybody else to claim as well right now.
20121219 17:39:21< vitiv> Claimed it
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20121219 18:24:09< vitiv> mattsc: I encountered a problem with the bear goal_filter
20121219 18:24:37< vitiv> bears are supposed to move so thata there is no unit within a radius of 12
20121219 18:26:25< vitiv> sorry, nvm, I misunderstood the ocndition
20121219 18:27:11< mattsc> Ok, I just looked it up and was going to tell you.
20121219 18:27:49< mattsc> That condition is just there so that the unit moves longish segments, rather than lots of small random hops.
20121219 18:28:54< mattsc> It's chosen pretty much randomly and can be changed if that works better.
20121219 18:30:24< vitiv> so it's just supposed to move a minimum of 12 tiles outwards from the current position right?
20121219 18:30:36< mattsc> yes.
20121219 18:31:23< mattsc> That's a condition that should probably be taken out, esp. since it can be added in again if you make this a filter.
20121219 18:31:30< vitiv> shouldn't that be hardcoded?
20121219 18:31:59< vitiv> I mean how is a filter aware of the unit's current position?
20121219 18:33:15< mattsc> Hmm, true, I don't think there's an easy way.
20121219 18:33:36< mattsc> But why should it be 12?  or 5? or 25?  There's no reason for this value other than that it made sense (to me) to use it for bears in this particular scenario.
20121219 18:34:24< vitiv> yeah, but that calls for some hardcoding of this condition
20121219 18:34:27< vitiv> still
20121219 18:34:29< mattsc> Since this AI is supposed to work with arbitrary units on arbitrary maps, we should either take out this condition altogether, or make the value another parameter.
20121219 18:35:40< vitiv> well, logically, it should be able to work with arbitray units, but it's held back by the limitations of the filterWML
20121219 18:36:33< mattsc> The trick here is to find something that does work with arbitrary units.  It might not be the exact same behavior as before, but that's ok.
20121219 18:37:56< vitiv> well I tried with "outside a 12 tile radius of any bear but then I got a nasty error because there was no such location for a bear in a corner :))
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20121219 18:48:11< vitiv> mattsc: I could use a placeholder name such as "current_x" for that x coordinate, traverse the filter beforehand and replace it with the current position 
20121219 18:50:35< mattsc> vitiv: You can, if you want.  I probably wouldn't do it and go back to my suggestion up there ^.  But it's your task, it's really up to you.
20121219 18:51:15< vitiv> I was actually looking for your opinion, because I feel that kinda breaks the WML specification
20121219 18:51:43< mattsc> And that's the reason why I wouldn't do it.  :)
20121219 18:52:17< mattsc> Personally, I am completely fine with dropping the radius thing altogether.
20121219 18:52:28< mattsc> If you want to keep it, make it's value a separate parameter.
20121219 18:53:07< mattsc> That's my opinion, since you asked.  But it's not set in stone.
20121219 18:53:28< vitiv> The most elegant solution would be removing it altogether; adding those parameters means hardcoding it 
20121219 18:53:45< mattsc> No, it doesn't.
20121219 18:54:11< mattsc> You could do something like:
20121219 18:55:15< mattsc> locs = wesnoth.get_locations { { "not", { x = unit.x, y = unit.y, radius = cfg.min_distance } }, move_filter }
20121219 18:55:56< mattsc> I might not have all the commas and brackets right, but I hope you see what I mean.
20121219 18:56:32< vitiv> yeah, but that still means tailoring the code and parameters just for this beahvior
20121219 18:56:38< mattsc> So you have 2 separate cfg parameters here: move_filter and min_distance
20121219 18:56:56< mattsc> right
20121219 18:57:06< vitiv> what if there was another feature you wanted to add later? :D
20121219 18:57:23< vitiv> that would imply another refactoring of the code
20121219 18:57:41< mattsc> Then I'll add it later.  One thing we can be absolutely sure about is that there will be other features that we'll want to add later.
20121219 18:58:44< mattsc> Once we put these Micro AIs out for everybody to use, there'll request for all kinds of things that we never even thought about.  :)
20121219 18:59:27< vitiv> Ok. if you say so, I kinda hoped though that this kind of logic would have its place in the parameters
20121219 18:59:58< mattsc> I don't understand what you are saying with that?
20121219 19:01:22< vitiv> that we sholudn't have to refactor the ai code whenever such a feature is needed, but rather be part implemented in the params :D
20121219 19:02:18< mattsc> Sure, ideally that is true.  But that's only possible if you can predict everything that anybody possibly might want to do with code like that.
20121219 19:03:13< mattsc> What if you somebody wants exactly the feature you are trying to skip here?  Or the opposite, the unit should never move farther than X hexes from its current position?  Or a combination thereof?
20121219 19:03:50< mattsc> You can't take every eventuality into account.  You can only decide at the time whether it's worth implementing that for the general user.
20121219 19:04:26< vitiv> Yeah, that's right, this is getting a little to paradigmatic for the task at hand :D
20121219 19:04:40< vitiv> I'll just add an optional argument
20121219 19:04:45< vitiv> *too
20121219 19:05:12< mattsc> :)  Anyways, I've told you my opinion several times now (I'd skip it altogether), I'll let you do it the way you want now.
20121219 19:05:48< vitiv> Well I've pushed the sheep commit to my repo
20121219 19:05:59< vitiv> I could send you a diff of thiss for revision too
20121219 19:07:01< mattsc> To be honest, I'd rather have it in a way that I can test also, rather than just going over the code, so I'll wait for your pull request.
20121219 19:07:10< vitiv> ok
20121219 19:07:18< vitiv> in a sec
20121219 19:13:10< vitiv> mattsc: sent it
20121219 19:15:18< mattsc> vitiv: ok, I see it.  Do you have any specific questions about it?
20121219 19:15:37< vitiv> like?
20121219 19:16:37< mattsc> Do you just want me to check in general whether it's ok, or is there anything specific that you would like me to look at?
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20121219 19:18:04< vitiv> well, quantitatively the sheep ai was the most work, if there is something wrong it might be there
20121219 19:18:39< mattsc> ok
20121219 19:21:57< mattsc> vitiv: well, first test, the lurker terrain filter does not seem to work.
20121219 19:22:28< mattsc> the lurkers (side 4) attack from all kind of terrain, rather than just swamp.
20121219 19:22:49< vitiv> i'll check
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20121219 19:29:39< vitiv> mattsc: the purple ones?
20121219 19:29:50< mattsc> vitiv: yes
20121219 19:30:17< vitiv> i just debbuged it and their attack and wander filter are nil
20121219 19:30:24< mattsc> vitiv: also, the dogs in Animals clearly don't behave as they did before.
20121219 19:30:38< mattsc> ok, so you know what to check
20121219 19:40:38< mattsc> vitiv: have you found it or do you want me to tell you?
20121219 19:41:12< vitiv> I see i forgot to get wander and attack_terrain nad put them into cfg_lurk
20121219 19:41:17< vitiv> *and
20121219 19:41:18< mattsc> (I just saw it, it's not like I didn't want to tell you previously  :) )
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20121219 19:41:35< vitiv> I think I can fix it
20121219 19:41:57< vitiv> I still need to wrap my head around how the CAs work
20121219 19:42:22< mattsc> yep, you need to do the get_child thing as in the guardian or animals code.
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20121219 19:48:24< vitiv> mattsc: just one thing, what's the difference between cfgand cfg.__parsed?
20121219 19:49:43< mattsc> cfg (in this case) is in userdata format, which includes a metatable.  cfg.__parsed is just the raw table.
20121219 19:50:02< mattsc> ai_helper.serialize needs a raw table
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20121219 19:50:40< isaac> o/
20121219 19:50:56< isaac> the % of people in the channel that I know keeps going down :P
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20121219 20:13:38< vitiv> mattsc: I've tinkered a bit with it
20121219 20:14:20< vitiv> http://pastebin.com/Uuq223fK this is the diff
20121219 20:14:38< vitiv> brb in 15 min
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20121219 20:34:26< vitiv> mattsc: the one I gave you doesn't work, they're still all over the place
20121219 20:34:53< mattsc> vitiv: ok, I haven't had time to look at it yet, am on something else for the moment
20121219 20:35:04< vitiv> no problem
20121219 20:36:03< mattsc> vitiv: the way to test things like this: see if it works with the current settings.  Then change the filter to something very different (like only have them move in water) and see if the behavior changes.
20121219 20:39:45< mattsc> vitiv: are you waiting for help from me right now or are you back on it?
20121219 20:40:32< vitiv> i;m back on it, I'll try to track it down
20121219 20:40:45< vitiv> hopefully
20121219 20:40:57< mattsc> Ok.  Let me know if you'd like me to look at something.
20121219 20:44:38< vitiv> mattsc: just something, is this code ok for passing the cfg to the lurker ai? http://pastebin.com/UY4G4g7z
20121219 20:45:58< mattsc> That looks right.
20121219 20:46:19< mattsc> If you put a print(cfg_str) into line 20, it should tell you if it worked
20121219 20:46:55< vitiv> yeah, i tested it, and in the ai code i should get a raw_table as the cfg right?
20121219 20:47:06< mattsc> And you can put a DBG.dbms(cfg) at the very beginning of lurker_attack_eval
20121219 20:47:24< mattsc> yes (assuming I understand the question correctly)
20121219 20:47:38< vitiv> i mean cfg, won't contain any wml
20121219 20:48:06< vitiv> *no comma intended
20121219 20:48:11< mattsc> No, the cfg should look something like this :
20121219 20:48:35< mattsc> { ... , attack_terrain = { terrain = 'S*' } }
20121219 20:50:11< vitiv> dows that mean that get_child is not neccesary now and I cna use normal table indexes instead? 
20121219 20:50:29< vitiv> dose*
20121219 20:50:36< vitiv> does** 
20121219 20:51:03< mattsc> Oh, no, it does not.  I think what I said there was wrong.  Let me check...
20121219 20:53:32< mattsc> Or maybe it does.  I am not passing it that way in the other AIs, but I forgot why.
20121219 20:54:03< mattsc> So if you pass it like that, then you don't need to get_child on the engine side (assuming it works)
20121219 20:54:19< vitiv> because H.get_child yields a nil, while ["attack_terrain"] gets it properly
20121219 20:54:42< mattsc> Right, that's because of the way how you set of the cfg string.
20121219 20:55:17< mattsc> If it works, then do it that way.  As I said, I don't remember right now why I am doing it differently for the other AIs.
20121219 20:55:46< mattsc> You should make sure that it still works when you give it a sub-tag though, such as [not]
20121219 20:57:35< mattsc> My guess is that I had the things with the parsed raw table messed up somehow.  So assuming yours works with subtags also, it's a better way of doing it.
20121219 20:59:10< vitiv> it doesn't seem to work thoug
20121219 20:59:46< vitiv> nvm
20121219 21:01:34< vitiv> cfg is a table but attack_filter gets a WML table 
20121219 21:03:11< mattsc> Yep - that's why it needs to be done the way I did it.  Thanks for reminding me.  :)
20121219 21:04:02< vitiv> so is it ok?
20121219 21:04:55< mattsc> the last pastebin you showed me?  no.  Have a look at how it's done for Guardians and replicate that
20121219 21:05:40< vitiv> tommorow, I gotta get some sleep, still have school
20121219 21:06:06< vitiv> I hope I can finish it on time, it's taking me too long, sorry
20121219 21:06:24< mattsc> Sure.  And no worries.  There's always a learning curve involved.
20121219 21:06:41< mattsc> If you can hang around for 3 min, I can show you what I mean.
20121219 21:06:51< vitiv> sure
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20121219 21:10:16< mattsc> vitiv: http://pastebin.com/dx0iZq8Y
20121219 21:10:23< vitiv_> mattsc: got disconnected 
20121219 21:10:50< mattsc> Something like that.  That was a quick cut and paste job, so it might contain a typo somewhere
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20121219 21:11:28< vitiv_> why this cfg_lurk[index] = cfg[index] and not cfg_lurk= child?
20121219 21:11:45< mattsc> So you want to find whether there's a child by that name, but then not only insert the child, but the entire table construct around it, in order for it to be in the correct WML table format.
20121219 21:11:52< mattsc> ^ was just typing that
20121219 21:12:01< vitiv_> a, ok :D
20121219 21:12:30< mattsc> I thinnk that's the reason.  If you want me to be sure, then I'll have to try it, but you should not wait for that.
20121219 21:13:04< vitiv_> yeah
20121219 21:13:28< mattsc> Another option _might_ be to insert it as {child} or something, but again, I'd have to think about it for a couple more minutes.
20121219 21:13:50< mattsc> I'll look into it for the guardians, and you can check the logs tomorrow.
20121219 21:15:19< vitiv_> thanks 
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--- Log closed Thu Dec 20 00:00:15 2012