--- Log opened Sat Feb 02 00:00:05 2013
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20130202 00:27:57< irker546> wesnoth: jamit * r56153 /trunk/src/game_events.cpp: 
20130202 00:27:57< irker546> wesnoth: More robust handling of [set_variable]rand=.
20130202 00:36:17< irker546> wesnoth: jamit * r56154 /trunk/src/game_events.cpp: 
20130202 00:36:17< irker546> wesnoth: More type changes that should have been part of my previous commit (more robust
20130202 00:36:18< irker546> wesnoth: handling of [set_variable]rand=).
20130202 00:41:35< mattsc> jamit: you're right that the MP host should not be able to control the RNG, of course.
20130202 00:42:20< mattsc> And the change that I am experimenting with only affects local games launched directly with the --multiplayer option
20130202 00:43:32< jamit> multiplayer_connect.cpp is used for all MP games, though, isn't it?
20130202 00:43:59< mattsc> yes, but the code paths only partially overlap.  This is in a separate path.
20130202 00:44:08< jamit> Ah...
20130202 00:45:59< jamit> That was not clear in your post. You mentioned "MP games" rather than "local MP games launched from the command line".
20130202 00:46:33< mattsc> True.  I should clarify that.
20130202 00:46:42< jamit> Does "--multiplayer" always launch a local game? I haven't used that.
20130202 00:47:13< mattsc> yes, it goes directly into the game, entirely bypassing the lobby
20130202 00:48:37< mattsc> And afaik you cannot specify using a server rather than a local game
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20130202 01:06:08< irker546> wesnoth: jamit * r56155 /trunk/src/game_events.cpp: 
20130202 01:06:08< irker546> wesnoth: Eliminate a string variable by assigning directly to a config::attibute_value.
20130202 01:19:38< irker546> wesnoth: jamit * r56156 /trunk/data/multiplayer/scenarios/2p_Dark_Forecast.cfg: 
20130202 01:19:39< irker546> wesnoth: Simplify the victory check by nesting events and using [filter_condition] instead of [if].
20130202 01:23:14< irker546> wesnoth: jamit * r56157 /trunk/data/multiplayer/scenarios/2p_Dark_Forecast.cfg: 
20130202 01:23:14< irker546> wesnoth: Remove an unused variable.
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20130202 03:38:59< irker546> wesnoth: jamit * r56158 /trunk/data/multiplayer/scenarios/2p_Dark_Forecast.cfg: 
20130202 03:39:00< irker546> wesnoth: Simplify the event extending the turn limit and firing final spawns with more advanced event handling.
20130202 03:40:58< irker546> wesnoth: jamit * r56159 /trunk/data/multiplayer/scenarios/2p_Dark_Forecast.cfg: 
20130202 03:40:59< irker546> wesnoth: Simplify the setting of the final turn limit.
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20130202 03:48:17< irker546> wesnoth: jamit * r56160 /trunk/data/multiplayer/scenarios/2p_Dark_Forecast.cfg: 
20130202 03:48:17< irker546> wesnoth: Reduce calculations by subtracting 1 before calling the REGULAR_RANDOM_SPAWNS macro.
20130202 03:57:53< irker546> wesnoth: jamit * r56161 /trunk/data/multiplayer/scenarios/2p_Dark_Forecast.cfg: 
20130202 03:57:53< irker546> wesnoth: Define the victory-defining event within the event that makes victory possible.
20130202 04:02:28< irker546> wesnoth: jamit * r56162 /trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): 
20130202 04:02:28< irker546> wesnoth: Make sure the scenario-ending events actually fire (there was a chance of them not firing ever since
20130202 04:02:29< irker546> wesnoth: WML division was changed to floating point).
20130202 04:02:29< irker546> wesnoth: Also changelog entries for this and r56147.
20130202 04:08:18< irker546> wesnoth: jamit * r56163 /trunk/src/game_events.cpp: 
20130202 04:08:19< irker546> wesnoth: (Re-)Allow variable substitution in event names.
20130202 04:08:19< irker546> wesnoth: Fixes the second issue brought up in bug #16692.
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20130202 04:26:12< jamit> Eh... that's not the version I meant to commit in r56163.
20130202 04:26:39< irker546> wesnoth: jamit * r56164 /trunk/src/game_events.cpp: 
20130202 04:26:40< irker546> wesnoth: Cut out some of the overhead from r56163.
20130202 04:53:48< irker546> wesnoth: jamit * r56165 /trunk/data/multiplayer/scenarios/2p_Dark_Forecast.cfg: 
20130202 04:53:49< irker546> wesnoth: Lost a "first_time_only=no" in r56158.
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20130202 10:05:34-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: FOSDEM 2013 planning: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Fosdem2013 | 178 bugs, 333 feature requests, 18 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20130202 10:23:39< mordante|FOSDEM> servus
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20130202 10:37:54< shadowm> Is this the part where you are discussing plans that never come to fruition?
20130202 10:40:54-!- AI0867_FOSDEM is now known as AI0867|FOSDEM
20130202 10:41:21< AI0867|FOSDEM> now using a laptop rather than a phone
20130202 10:41:22< mordante|FOSDEM> no we already reached agreements for dinner tonight :-P
20130202 10:42:41< shadowm> Okay, have fun I guess.
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20130202 10:57:24< boucman_fosdem> mordante|FOSDEM: we did ?
20130202 10:57:38< boucman_fosdem> we are discussing switching to git (again :P )
20130202 10:57:50< shadowm> That's exactly what I meant.
20130202 10:58:14< shadowm> No, actually, not. I meant points (1), (2), and (3) from the last FOSDEM wrap-up email.
20130202 10:58:41< shadowm> The git stuff just so happens to be covered by point (2).
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20130202 10:59:14< shadowm> I'm off now, bye.
20130202 10:59:18< boucman_fosdem> shadowm: you are our admin at gna, arn't you ?
20130202 10:59:25< shadowm> What.
20130202 10:59:33< shadowm> Last time I checked, no.
20130202 11:00:21< elias|FOSDEM> seems ivanovic is
20130202 11:00:22< shadowm> The gna.org stuff is Ivanovic's jurisdiction, but I believe he couldn't make it to FOSDEM this time?
20130202 11:01:06< shadowm> noy is also an admin but that's only in case Ivanovic croaks^Wisn't available for something urgent.
20130202 11:04:17< mordante|FOSDEM> boucman_fosdem, yeah we did, it might be a surprise, but it's going to be the Greek
20130202 11:04:36< Ivanovic> mordante|FOSDEM: really?
20130202 11:04:44< Ivanovic> that sounds groundbreaking!
20130202 11:05:16< Ivanovic> wish i was able to be with you in brussels!
20130202 11:05:17< mordante|FOSDEM> Ivanovic, indeed, yesterday I was tempted to sit at another table
20130202 11:05:40< Ivanovic> but we have been at many different tables in that restaurant
20130202 11:05:46< mordante|FOSDEM> yeah that would have been really nice
20130202 11:05:48< Ivanovic> indeed we might already have been at all
20130202 11:06:04< mordante|FOSDEM> only because _our_ table was not available
20130202 11:06:52< boucman_fosdem> Ivanovic: what are the possibilities to migrate out of gna (i.e what sort of exports)
20130202 11:07:02< Ivanovic> no idea
20130202 11:07:20< boucman_fosdem> the general consensus here is that gna will probably break "soon" and we need to migrate the bug DB before that
20130202 11:07:31< shadowm> No, gna.org is already broken. :)
20130202 11:07:44< shadowm> Their tech support is obviously crap.
20130202 11:07:56< mordante|FOSDEM> broken as in, not around anymore
20130202 11:07:59< shadowm> https://gna.org/support/?2953
20130202 11:08:08< shadowm> ^ Pretty sure no-one has even had a look there.
20130202 11:08:29< AI0867|FOSDEM> boucman_fosdem: áàäâ
20130202 11:08:57< AI0867|FOSDEM> compose rules
20130202 11:09:24< boucman_fosdem> éèàçùà
20130202 11:09:47< boucman_fosdem> î
20130202 11:09:59< AI0867|FOSDEM> 'eé`eè`aà,cç`uù`aà
20130202 11:10:01< bumbadadabum> üúùû
20130202 11:10:06< AI0867|FOSDEM> ^iî
20130202 11:10:20< bumbadadabum> ^i
20130202 11:10:22< bumbadadabum> lel
20130202 11:10:37< boucman_fosdem> ü
20130202 11:10:38< shadowm> I'm off now, bye.
20130202 11:11:06< AI0867|FOSDEM> œ
20130202 11:11:08< AI0867|FOSDEM> oe
20130202 11:11:14< shadowm> ^^^^ See? That's a grammatically-correct sentence (the comma!).
20130202 11:11:25< bumbadadabum> æ
20130202 11:11:44< AI0867|FOSDEM> þæð
20130202 11:13:25< bumbadadabum> φατ τη φυκ διδ ιου ιυστ φυκιγγ ση αβαυτ με?
20130202 11:13:58< AI0867|FOSDEM> ij
20130202 11:14:09< bumbadadabum> ij?
20130202 11:14:25< AI0867|FOSDEM> yeah, not that anyone uses that
20130202 11:14:40< AI0867|FOSDEM> ‘’
20130202 11:14:46< AI0867|FOSDEM> “”
20130202 11:14:57< bumbadadabum> What's special about that "ij"?
20130202 11:15:07< AI0867|FOSDEM> it's a single character?
20130202 11:15:14< bumbadadabum> ok
20130202 11:15:26< bumbadadabum> but i+j is correct in dutch as well, rite?
20130202 11:15:29< mordante|FOSDEM> bumbadadabum, you didn't know that?
20130202 11:15:42< bumbadadabum> mordante|FOSDEM: No.
20130202 11:15:52< bumbadadabum> I don't know where to find it on my keyboard either
20130202 11:16:06< mordante|FOSDEM> bumbadadabum, oke, didn't learn it in school?
20130202 11:16:13< bumbadadabum> mordante|FOSDEM: No.
20130202 11:16:24< bumbadadabum> ij = i+j
20130202 11:16:36 * mordante|FOSDEM bangs his head against the table
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20130202 11:17:53< bumbadadabum> mordante|FOSDEM: Why this reaction?
20130202 11:18:45< AI0867|FOSDEM> 11:16  * mordante|FOSDEM bangs his head against the table <-- no you didn't
20130202 11:19:00< boucman_fosdem> :)
20130202 11:19:07< bumbadadabum> lol
20130202 11:19:46 * mordante|FOSDEM hates other people around :-P
20130202 11:20:09< mordante|FOSDEM> well I think it's quite sad people don't know how to write thing properly
20130202 11:20:19< mordante|FOSDEM> and not get it teached properly in school
20130202 11:20:30< bumbadadabum> mordante|FOSDEM: I don't get it
20130202 11:20:34< mordante|FOSDEM> next thing we'll see is things lijk Ijmuiden
20130202 11:20:47< bumbadadabum> well
20130202 11:20:57< shadowm> s/teached/taught/
20130202 11:21:10< mordante|FOSDEM> thanks shadowm 
20130202 11:21:12< bumbadadabum> It's like eu and ou
20130202 11:21:43< mordante|FOSDEM> what about it?
20130202 11:21:55< bumbadadabum> ij isn't a letter
20130202 11:22:08< bumbadadabum> except for capital letters
20130202 11:22:20< bumbadadabum> IJmuiden
20130202 11:22:37< bumbadadabum> but really, idc
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20130202 11:22:47< bumbadadabum> I don't have the 1-character ij on my keyboard
20130202 11:23:33< bumbadadabum> http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=547080#p547080
20130202 11:23:35< bumbadadabum> this post
20130202 11:25:02< mordante|FOSDEM> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IJ_%28digraph%29
20130202 11:25:06< AI0867|FOSDEM> IJmuiden
20130202 11:26:22< bumbadadabum> ok
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20130202 11:56:15< zookeeper> btw, regarding a possible move to git; i was only recently told that at least at github, you can use the git repos through an svn client just fine. since the biggest objection to git seems to be that it's more complicated for a lot of people, maybe that's not an issue after all. assuming what i was told is true, anyway.
20130202 11:57:19< elias|FOSDEM> did someone try that svn access? does it also allow committing?
20130202 11:57:53< elias|FOSDEM> anyway, i find it weird... the reason i like git so much is the client-side tools, i wouldn't mind if it was svn at the server
20130202 11:58:05< elias|FOSDEM> so using git but accessing with an svn client... :P
20130202 11:58:11< AI0867|FOSDEM> elias|FOSDEM: I've seen the tutorial
20130202 11:58:42< AI0867|FOSDEM> it's for people who don't want to learn anything new
20130202 11:59:21< elias|FOSDEM> they'd still have to change thte SVN server URL
20130202 11:59:58< elias|FOSDEM> so basically, new svn checkout most likely
20130202 12:00:22< shadowm> svn switch --relocate
20130202 12:01:06< shadowm> I tried Github's SVN support thing out of curiosity once but I don't remember what my opinion was or whether I recorded it anywhere.
20130202 12:01:37< shadowm> I vaguely remember the notion of 'crap' being somehow involved.
20130202 12:01:54< shadowm> But that might be because I generally think SVN is crap.
20130202 12:02:15< AI0867|FOSDEM> you have the same git-svn problem of having to use the intersection of git and svn, but with a worse client
20130202 12:02:44< shadowm> The most terrible thing about svn is its ridiculous approach to error handling.
20130202 12:02:51-!- knotwork [~markm@unaffiliated/knotwork] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20130202 12:03:01< shadowm> On the other hand, the most terrible thing about git is its ridiculous approach to cloning.
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20130202 12:03:14< boucman_work> and back 
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20130202 12:03:27< shadowm> That is, I can't safely clone any Git repository above 10 MiB here.
20130202 12:03:45< shadowm> Git does nothing to solve that besides offering the very limited shallow clones option.
20130202 12:04:44< shadowm> Hence I have advised in the past offering an option to people like me if we ever move to Git.
20130202 12:05:13< shadowm> That is, offering a tarballed snapshot of the repository that can be updated weekly or so.
20130202 12:05:21< shadowm> That people like me can wget -c.
20130202 12:06:49< shadowm> *bi-weekly
20130202 12:07:25< Ivanovic> boucman_fosdem: [11:59:30] <michaellarabel> If you wanted I could try to organize something informal about graphics drivers/hardware discussions for Linux gaming.
20130202 12:07:34< Ivanovic> i asked him to give you a ping
20130202 12:07:42< Ivanovic> a possible replacement for the now empty slot
20130202 12:08:13< shadowm> Blarghgarrble.
20130202 12:08:26< AI0867|FOSDEM> 12:03 < shadowm> That is, I can't safely clone any Git repository above 10 MiB here.
20130202 12:08:32< AI0867|FOSDEM> that's why github offers ZIP files
20130202 12:08:44< shadowm> AI0867|FOSDEM: Last time I checked they offer ZIP files of the WORKING TREE.
20130202 12:08:56< AI0867|FOSDEM> really? I thought it included the .git tree
20130202 12:09:01 * AI0867|FOSDEM checks
20130202 12:09:07< shadowm> I tried that the other day and banged my head against my keyboard for several minutes after the download finished.
20130202 12:09:29< AI0867|FOSDEM> argh, you're right
20130202 12:09:53< AI0867|FOSDEM> well, that brings us back to hosting our own tarballs of checkouts
20130202 12:10:03< shadowm> IIRC they are decommissioning that misfeature anyway.
20130202 12:10:21< AI0867|FOSDEM> ask them to reintroduce it properly
20130202 12:11:14< shadowm> I am not good with words.
20130202 12:11:21< shadowm> Someone else can do it.
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20130202 12:15:34< AI0867|FOSDEM> shadowm: do you have a link?
20130202 12:16:11< shadowm> I'm not on my desktop and I haven't got around to setup Firefox Sync yet, so, hm.
20130202 12:16:15< mordante|FOSDEM> but we could also pull at our server as backup
20130202 12:17:38< shadowm> Publishing a hidden periodically-updated tarball in our server is what I propose, yeah. We already do that with the git-svn tarball.
20130202 12:18:58< shadowm> Hidden, because we don't want people abusing whatever bandwidth plan we have at that new server we haven't properly tested and set up yet.
20130202 12:19:50< AI0867|FOSDEM> we could dump a frequently updated tarball on github's download page
20130202 12:20:00< mordante|FOSDEM> we could also upload the tarball to something like dropbox/mega or some other free place
20130202 12:20:07< mordante|FOSDEM> free as free of charge
20130202 12:20:13< shadowm> AI0867|FOSDEM: Pretty sure that is being decommissioned too.
20130202 12:20:15< AI0867|FOSDEM> I believe they have a feature for that or something
20130202 12:20:16< AI0867|FOSDEM> oh
20130202 12:20:46< shadowm> https://github.com/blog/1302-goodbye-uploads
20130202 12:22:03< shadowm> Okay, so I misread things and the working tree zip (which is unfortunately advertised next to the repository cloning options) is not part of the feature set bing decommissioned.
20130202 12:22:42< shadowm> Hell, even the mouse over says "Download this repository as a zip file". Wtf.
20130202 12:23:04< shadowm> I guess I should file a bug about this. Eventually.
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20130202 12:24:55< mordante|FOSDEM> yeah but is the zip file an export of the current tree of a zip of the entire repository including history
20130202 12:24:58< shadowm> Assuming they even have a bug tracker for their own interface.
20130202 12:25:37< shadowm> mordante|FOSDEM: No, it's just the working tree.
20130202 12:25:53< shadowm> I just tried it with one of my smaller repositories. There is no .git dir inside.
20130202 12:30:09< mordante|FOSDEM> :-(
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20130202 12:33:31< AI0867|FOSDEM> shadowm: crab suggested using the svn bridge for solving this
20130202 12:34:21< AI0867|FOSDEM> mordante|FOSDEM: I tested and reported on that 20 minutes ago
20130202 12:43:34< shadowm> Okay, away for real now.
20130202 12:44:32< mordante|FOSDEM> bye shadowm 
20130202 12:51:24< AI0867|FOSDEM> esr: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=547038#p547038
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20130202 14:02:50< irker813> wesnoth: boucman * r56166 /trunk/ (7 files in 2 dirs): 
20130202 14:02:51< irker813> wesnoth: apply patch 3656 by coffee to simplify terrain WML
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--- Log opened Sat Feb 02 14:33:10 2013
20130202 14:33:19-!- lobby [~wesnoth@wesnoth/bot/lobby] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130202 14:33:19-!- Topic for #wesnoth-dev: FOSDEM 2013 planning: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Fosdem2013 | 178 bugs, 333 feature requests, 18 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20130202 14:33:19-!- Topic set by wesbot [~wesbot@wesnoth/bot/wesbot] [Sat Feb  2 10:05:34 2013]
20130202 14:33:19[Users #wesnoth-dev]
20130202 14:33:19[ AI0867|FOSDEM  ] [ elias|FOSDEM   ] [ iwaim_         ] [ Rhonda    ] 
20130202 14:33:19[ Akihara        ] [ Elvish_Pillager] [ jamit          ] [ Samual    ] 
20130202 14:33:19[ apoi           ] [ enchilado      ] [ janebot        ] [ shadowm   ] 
20130202 14:33:19[ balrog         ] [ Espreon        ] [ knotwork       ] [ shikadibot] 
20130202 14:33:19[ boucman_fosdem ] [ esr            ] [ lipkab         ] [ skyfaller ] 
20130202 14:33:19[ bumbadadabum   ] [ ettin          ] [ lobby          ] [ Smar      ] 
20130202 14:33:19[ ChrisOelmueller] [ exciton        ] [ loonybot       ] [ timotei   ] 
20130202 14:33:19[ cjhopman       ] [ fendrin        ] [ loonycyborg    ] [ ToBeFree  ] 
20130202 14:33:19[ cjhopman_      ] [ Gallaecio      ] [ LordNasty      ] [ Upthorn   ] 
20130202 14:33:19[ Crab_|FOSDEM   ] [ Gambit         ] [ melinath       ] [ vultraz   ] 
20130202 14:33:19[ Crendgrim      ] [ happygrue      ] [ mordante|FOSDEM] [ wesbot    ] 
20130202 14:33:19[ crimson_penguin] [ Ingmar         ] [ nafac          ] [ yann      ] 
20130202 14:33:19[ csarmi         ] [ irker813       ] [ noy            ] [ zookeeper ] 
20130202 14:33:19[ EdB            ] [ isaac          ] [ Octalot        ] [ {V}       ] 
20130202 14:33:19[ ejls           ] [ Ivanovic       ] [ oldtopman      ] 
20130202 14:33:19-!- Irssi: #wesnoth-dev: Total of 59 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 59 normal]
20130202 14:33:26-!- Channel #wesnoth-dev created Tue Jan 27 06:28:41 2009
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20130202 14:34:16< AI0867|FOSDEM> the entire server is now down, it seems
20130202 14:34:22< AI0867|FOSDEM> port 22 refuses connections
20130202 14:34:49-!- Irssi: Join to #wesnoth-dev was synced in 97 secs
20130202 14:34:58< AI0867|FOSDEM> now I'm in
20130202 14:35:18< AI0867|FOSDEM> uptime 4 minutes
20130202 14:38:36< elias|FOSDEM> hm, i'll move the script to another server, wesnoth.org just is too unstable :P
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20130202 15:50:57< Espreon> Hmmm... isn't the single "ij" character a mere compatibility character, though? I think I read that somewhere.
20130202 15:50:57< mordante|FOSDEM> I'm off bye
20130202 15:51:08< mordante|FOSDEM> Espreon, no it's not
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20130202 15:51:14< Espreon> Hmmm...
20130202 15:51:35< Espreon> http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/133/index.htm
20130202 15:51:46< Espreon> ... ... yeah...
20130202 15:58:50< Espreon> http://www.unicode.org/faq/casemap_charprop.html
20130202 15:59:01< Espreon> But I guess they don't know what they're talking about.
20130202 15:59:04< Espreon> Tee hee.
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20130202 16:05:34-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: FOSDEM 2013 planning: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Fosdem2013 | 179 bugs, 333 feature requests, 17 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20130202 18:01:51< irker696> wesnoth: jamit * r56167 /trunk/src/unit_display.cpp: 
20130202 18:01:51< irker696> wesnoth: Reduce the number of checks for a locked/faked display (already checked by the
20130202 18:01:51< irker696> wesnoth: callers of these functions).
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20130202 18:07:41< irker696> wesnoth: jamit * r56168 /trunk/src/unit_display.cpp: 
20130202 18:07:41< irker696> wesnoth: Small change to scrolling when showing a unit teleporting from a fogged hex.
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20130202 19:15:32< AI0867|FOSDEM> esr: we're looking at moving to git again. wiki.wesnoth.org/WesnothGIT
20130202 19:16:20< fendrin> AI0867|FOSDEM: yeah!!
20130202 19:17:12< esr> AI0867|FOSDEM: My tools are in good shape to assist a conversion.
20130202 19:17:19< Crab_> esr: there're two points on which you can advice us - getting the data out of GNA (maybe we can find a way better than webpage scraping - are you still an admin on gna?), and svn-git conversion.
20130202 19:18:59< esr> Crab_: I totally have you covered on the repository-conversion part.  I have the best tools in existence for it and lots of other experience using it.
20130202 19:19:13< esr> using them, I mean.
20130202 19:20:16< esr> What other data do you want to extract from Gna?  Bugtracker state is possible but there probably isn't any way to re-inject it on the other end.
20130202 19:21:41< Crab_> esr: we were thinking about bug properties, descriptions, comments (even a text dump of them), attached files. bonus points if links to svn still work (as in 'point to corresponding git revision')
20130202 19:22:24< Crab_> to reinject (if we'll go with redmine), we can just code some scripts that use the REST api Redmine has for creating bugs.
20130202 19:22:41< Crab_> (via http post)
20130202 19:23:35< Crab_> scraping that info from gna looks possible, and we'll probably have to do it unless there's a better way (like 'get a database dump').
20130202 19:24:04< esr> Possible but a big messy job.  My forgeplucker code used to be good enough but the last time I looked at it the people now working on it had broken the extractor.
20130202 19:25:48< Crab_> esr: is it possible for you to get a database dump for wesnoth's data from gna for us? (I was told you are an admin there)
20130202 19:26:59< esr> Crab_: I am, but I don't know how to do that or even if it's possible.  That cidebase is totally undocumented and a bigger mess than you could easily imagine.
20130202 19:27:44< esr> Crab_: I looked at trying to fix it a few years back but concluded it was unsalvageable.
20130202 19:33:05< Crab_> esr: ok. so, we'd be better of scraping the website than trying to get the data from DB dump. in that case, will it be useful to extend/fix the forgeplucker code or it's better to code a scraper from scratch?
20130202 19:34:16< esr> Crab_: Probably best to fix the forgeplucker code, as it will give you backj a big JSON blob that's easy t generate other stuff from.  
20130202 19:36:02< esr> It's possible the extractor for Gna is working again.  In any case the code is not really complicated; the design idea was more important than the implementation.
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20130202 19:39:24< Crab_> ok, I'll give it a try.
20130202 19:39:33< Crab_> thanks
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20130202 20:04:29< Crab_> esr: tried it. worked for gna bugs (so far, found several small and fixable glitches like not parsing names properly). hasn't worked for a user list (that one tries to crawl an admin-only url - but we don't need the user list that much)
20130202 20:05:47< esr> Crab_: Oh, good.  I knew the architecture was sound when I left it.  Does the JSON make sense to you?
20130202 20:06:00< Crab_> Yes, it'll work for us after we'll fix it. plus, we'll need to fetch the files it references and reinject the results. any tools that we can base our reinjecting on - or that part is to be written from scratch?
20130202 20:06:22< Crab_> jsor (or whatever structured data that we can iterate over) is good.
20130202 20:11:08< esr> The injector will have to be written from scratch.  When I was working on the problem there was no forge I knew of that had the right kind of API for one.
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20130202 20:17:18< Crab_> esr: ok. redmine's http://www.redmine.org/projects/redmine/wiki/Rest_api looks good enough for us to inject the bugs (even if we lose some info in the process, we'll get what we need)
20130202 20:18:30< esr> Crab_: Good.  I will do a trial conversion of the repo. 
20130202 20:19:35< esr> Crab_: Though that may be difficult. IIRC the full repo ia so large that trying to mirror it runs me out of disk space. :-)
20130202 20:21:48-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20130202 20:22:54< Crab_> Yes.. music, and graphics with all those branches. Yet the end result from git-svn is somehow around 2GB in size when comprssed - or it doesn't include all the info?
20130202 20:23:21< Crab_> esr: or there's need for a lot of extra disk space during intermediate processing that your tool does?
20130202 20:25:19< esr> Yes, a *lot* of intermediate space.  All the blobs have to be stored on disk, uncompressed. (Note to self: implement compression.)
20130202 20:26:28< esr> Crab_: When do you want to pull the trigger on the conversion?
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20130202 20:30:21< Crab_> we just did a calculation and got to the order of 10 TB of temporary disk space. amazon EBS will not provide disks larger than 1 TB - AI0867
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20130202 20:30:59< esr> Crab_: Holy shit.
20130202 20:31:27< esr> Crab_: Where the hell are we going to do this thing?
20130202 20:32:02< Crab_> esr: for the "when?" question - we'll post on the mailing list soon, and, if there'll be no major objections, we'd like to do it soon. albeit, no defined timeframe.
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20130202 20:32:27< Crab_> our calculation was pretty much a 'worst case'
20130202 20:33:18< esr> Crab_: OK.  Perhaps a VM on linode?
20130202 20:34:12< Crab_> what if the algorithm would process all commits in batches, like "first X commits are processed, then the resulting repo is packed, then next X commits are processed, etc" ?
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20130202 20:38:47< Crab_> esr: *while looking at linode VMs disk space : "where's the option for terabytes?" *
20130202 20:39:37< esr> Crab_: Can't do it.  The way reposurgeon works relies on having the whole DAG in memory. (Not the blobs, though, which are the real problem here.
20130202 20:39:52< esr> Looking...
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20130202 20:41:14< esr> I don't see a terabyte-and-up option. Dang. 
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20130202 20:45:29< AI0867|FOSDEM> boucman: still here?
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20130202 20:46:11< Crab_> esr: why simultaneous access to all the blobs is required to construct the DAG? Also note that a lot of space is used by translations, music, images.
20130202 20:47:32< esr> Crab_: That's a long explanation.  You might try reading the reposurgeon documentation.
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20130202 20:54:31< Crab_> esr:  it might take a lot less space even with naive 'don't store blob if it was the same in the previous revision, just create a symlink to previous revision' compression.
20130202 20:55:04< esr> Crab_: It already works that way.
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20130202 20:55:18< Crab_> esr: then our 14Tb estimate is not correct :)
20130202 20:55:44< Crab_> so, might be worth trying to run to see where it breaks.
20130202 20:57:40< esr> What the tool actually does is get a fast-import stream or Subversion dump from the source repo and create in-core metadata structures corresponding to the commits and tags in the input stream, with the contnt stored in tempfiles on disk - just one for each unique blob.
20130202 20:59:12< Crab_> ok, I see, so non-unique blobs don't add to disk space use. that means that it might need much less than 14 terabytes, and this makes things much easier - it's way easier to find just a few terabytes.
20130202 20:59:33< Crab_> and, meanwhile, I'll fix the forgeplucker to export the bugs correctly, and send a email to wesnoth-dev about the migration.
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20130202 20:59:59< AI0867|FOSDEM> if the assumption that "less than 1000 times in the history has a music file been touched", then my worst case estimate drops to 10-100 gigabytes
20130202 21:00:06< AI0867|FOSDEM> assumption holds
20130202 21:00:17< esr> Then you get to do structure editing.  When it writes a repo what it actually does is generate an output fast-import stream and feed it to the target system's importer (but svn is a special case again, it generates a Subversion dump instead)
20130202 21:00:24< AI0867|FOSDEM> for the music that is
20130202 21:01:23< esr> All I know is if I do this locally on my machine I *am* going to have to buy a larger disk.  I've tried checking out the entire repo before.
20130202 21:01:35< Crab_> how much do you had free at the time?
20130202 21:01:48< esr> Dumnno.
20130202 21:02:00< Crab_> do you remember at what rXXX it broke?
20130202 21:02:18< esr> I think BTW we should consider storing the music files as externals.
20130202 21:02:27< esr> No.
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20130202 21:06:36< AI0867|FOSDEM> $ git log --pretty=oneline data/core/music/ |wc -l
20130202 21:06:36< AI0867|FOSDEM> 45
20130202 21:08:32-!- boucman_work [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130202 21:08:39< boucman_work> AH HA
20130202 21:08:48< boucman_work> :)
20130202 21:08:57< AI0867|FOSDEM> irssi rules
20130202 21:09:08< boucman_work> I beat you again, internet connection, my old nemesis
20130202 21:09:15< AI0867|FOSDEM> no, this was just your phone
20130202 21:09:19< boucman_work> :P
20130202 21:09:23< Crab_> :)
20130202 21:09:25< boucman_work> don't spoil my effects :)
20130202 21:13:09< AI0867|FOSDEM> well, I have 220 GB of unallocated disk space I could use...
20130202 21:13:22< AI0867|FOSDEM> (unallocated as in, not part of a partition)
20130202 21:15:24< Crab_> so, we can try. at worst, we'll see the r number where it fails, and we'll know the disk space requirements.
20130202 21:16:33< AI0867|FOSDEM> we can't try here though
20130202 21:16:39< AI0867|FOSDEM> can we get the svn database from GNA?
20130202 21:16:54< AI0867|FOSDEM> so the fetching can be done locally?
20130202 21:19:02< Crab_> btw, where wesnoth's svn repo is physically located? somewhere in France? 
20130202 21:19:09< AI0867|FOSDEM> yeah
20130202 21:23:22< Crab_> esr: any way to download the wesnoth svn repo (apart from a "get a hdd, visit them" option :) ) ? do you have any access to those?
20130202 21:24:27< esr> svnsync
20130202 21:24:43< esr> Tht part isn't hard.
20130202 21:26:21< Crab_> great, so then we can try (svnsync, try reposturgeon locally, if failed - get good estimate of hdd space required)
20130202 21:26:31< esr> But now I have to go to lunch and food shopping with my wife.  To be continued.
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20130202 21:49:03-!- chains is now known as Guest43788
20130202 21:49:34< Guest43788> Just a small note, I've implemented a few bug fixes on the ladder. There's a news post on the ladder with details. So far just small stuff. 
20130202 21:49:40-!- Guest43788 is now known as Greg-pdx
20130202 21:50:13< Soliton> Crab_: our new server has about 2.5TB space free atm.
20130202 21:52:14< Crab_> Soliton: that gives us a lot higher chance of doing it successfully on the 1st try :)
20130202 21:53:10< Greg-pdx> I'm basically fixing the things Cackfiend bugs me about the most, if anyone has any concerns, feel free to contact me.
20130202 21:53:12< Soliton> Crab_: as for redmine.. there is also chiliproject (a redmine fork) to consider. we use that at work.
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20130202 22:09:42< Crab_> Soliton: what's the difference? why it's better?
20130202 22:14:28< Soliton> Crab_: https://www.chiliproject.org/projects/chiliproject/wiki/Why_Fork
20130202 22:16:06< Soliton> many redmine plugin still work with chili, though there have been some API changes.
20130202 22:19:55< Crab_> from the differences page https://www.chiliproject.org/projects/chiliproject/wiki/Differences_Between_Chiliproject_and_Redmine redmine even looked better
20130202 22:20:08< Crab_> but I haven't used either of those, I've not got any preferences
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--- Log closed Sun Feb 03 00:00:11 2013