--- Log opened Tue Feb 05 00:00:55 2013
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20130205 00:48:44< shadowm> fendrin: What do you think of changing the button "Reset Defaults" in the Hotkeys dialog to just "Defaults"?
20130205 00:49:28< shadowm> Or do you feel too strongly attached to additional words which are generally considered the bane of translators?
20130205 00:50:17< shadowm> Gambit showed me a screenshot in which lipkab failed to both reuse an existing UI string for his modification options dialog and adhere to the Title Case convention, so I'm asking this before deciding what to do about that.
20130205 00:52:04< shadowm> I really need to prepare my plan for officializing our UI conventions before people add more UI elements that later need to be fixed.
20130205 00:52:21< fendrin> shadowm: Just "Defaults" is fine.
20130205 00:52:47< shadowm> Okay.
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20130205 01:07:54< shadowm> lipkab: src/mp_options.cpp generates a GUI2 dialog dynamically?
20130205 01:08:05< shadowm> I suspect mordante would cry rivers if he saw that.
20130205 01:08:48< shadowm> Also, it makes it quite harder for me to enforce our UI conventions there.
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20130205 01:15:37< shadowm> Actually, I think I'll be the one to cry rivers first.
20130205 01:16:48< Gambit> I also feel like the options button should be moved over between the modifications and set password buttons
20130205 01:17:49< shadowm> Yes, it took me a while to figure out how that worked.
20130205 01:18:01< shadowm> e.g. bad UX.
20130205 01:22:40< shadowm> Ah screw this. I'll leave the Reset button alignment to lipkab.
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20130205 01:24:36< irker069> wesnoth: shadowmaster * r56171 /trunk/src/hotkey_preferences_display.cpp: 
20130205 01:24:36< irker069> wesnoth: preferences: Relabel "Reset Defaults" button in Hotkey preferences to "Defaults"
20130205 01:24:37< irker069> wesnoth: Another attempt to reduce translator suicide rates.
20130205 01:24:54< irker069> wesnoth: shadowmaster * r56172 /trunk/src/mp_options.cpp: 
20130205 01:24:54< irker069> wesnoth: mp options: Use a pre-existing standards-conforming label for the "Restore defaults button"
20130205 01:24:55< irker069> wesnoth: Previously that label would have been "Reset Defaults" (hotkey
20130205 01:24:55< irker069> wesnoth: preferences), but since that's just been changed it will be "Defaults"
20130205 01:24:56< irker069> wesnoth: instead.
20130205 01:24:56< irker069> wesnoth: Please use title case for button labels.
20130205 01:28:36< AI0867> esr: after dumping all revisions, reposurgeon prints this and seems to eat infinite amounts of CPUtime without doing anything:
20130205 01:28:39< AI0867> * Dumped revision 56170.                                                              │                                                                                     
20130205 01:28:43< AI0867> reposurgeon: r23986~trunk/src/settings.cpp: properties cleared.                       │                                                                                     
20130205 01:28:46< AI0867> reposurgeon: r23986~trunk/src/settings.hpp: properties cleared.                       │                                                                                     
20130205 01:28:50< AI0867> reposurgeon: r28311~trunk/src/tests/gui/test_drop_target.cpp: properties cleared.
20130205 01:29:23< AI0867> ugh, no it didn't, my pipe just broke...
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20130205 01:56:19< AI0867> esr: after loading the svn repo, this is the result of trying to dump it: http://pastebin.com/4vz5f3X2
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20130205 03:14:32< Gambit> lipkab: Can we get tooltips for the [options] just like the main ones?
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20130205 07:52:33< zookeeper> shadowm, assuming that said button resets hotkeys back to defaults, i think such controls should always include a word like "reset" or "restore"... having it named "defaults" doesn't really tell what it _does_, only that it's something about defaults.
20130205 08:03:19< shadowm> The one in the Hotkey preferences dialog explains what it does after clicking on it.
20130205 08:03:27< shadowm> It could probably use a tooltip, though.
20130205 08:14:30< zookeeper> oh. right. that's okay then, i guess.
20130205 08:14:46< zookeeper> not ideal but at least you won't accidentally screw up anything
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20130205 11:24:33< Rhonda> Can someone suggest a suiting name for the new wesnoth server?  I would like to go with a character based naming schema, coming from the game.
20130205 11:24:55< Rhonda> But I don't want to use konrad, lisar or delfador, they are too obvious.  :)
20130205 11:25:26< Espreon> Yechnagoth
20130205 11:25:29< Espreon> (IDKLOL)
20130205 11:26:07< Rhonda> Somone you can suggest from http://wiki.wesnoth.org/CharactersStorys maybe?
20130205 11:26:20< Espreon> Why does it have to be from there?
20130205 11:26:25< Espreon> What's wrong with Yechnagoth?
20130205 11:26:26< Rhonda> I am not that familiar with all the lore or characters.
20130205 11:26:37< Rhonda> I don't know yechnagoth, who is (s)he?
20130205 11:26:57< Espreon> She's the evil force that drives the story of UtBS, I guess you could say.
20130205 11:27:01< Rhonda> "Yechnagoth, the Eater of Souls and impersonator of Eloh"
20130205 11:27:13< Rhonda> … well, I'm not so sure whether we want an evil name for the server. :)
20130205 11:27:34< Espreon> But we're all bad people here.™
20130205 11:28:09< Rhonda> I don't want the new server to feel bad and act up against us because of the name. ;)
20130205 11:28:30< Espreon> Nah, it would just sway us to do what it wishes.
20130205 11:31:05< Espreon> I'd suggest Anlindë, but she's from IftU... though a lot of people like to accept that as canon.
20130205 11:32:27< Ivanovic> we could just go with short and simple names like arne
20130205 11:32:35< Ivanovic> (he is the hero from two brothers)
20130205 11:32:39< zookeeper> grab something from the random name generator
20130205 11:32:47< Espreon> I thought "Arne" was no more.
20130205 11:32:54< elias> moremirmu
20130205 11:32:59< Ivanovic> ah, right, that was replaced by something other with a
20130205 11:33:00< elias> i always liked his name :)
20130205 11:33:00< Espreon> Sigh.
20130205 11:33:34< elias> (and heir to the throne is the only campaign i really remember by now :P)
20130205 11:34:02< Ivanovic> Arvith is his name now and Baran his brothers
20130205 11:34:11< Ivanovic> then for the next server we would need some name with C
20130205 11:34:13< Ivanovic> ;)
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20130205 11:34:30< zookeeper> not arvith for a server, please -.- it's a lame name
20130205 11:34:35< Espreon> I'd also like to suggest Kaleh, but meh.
20130205 11:34:42< Espreon> zookeeper: Indeed.
20130205 11:34:53< Ivanovic> that is Rhonda already suggested asheviere
20130205 11:34:58< Ivanovic> which is also nice IMO
20130205 11:35:28< Espreon> I loathe HttT with every bit of my being, but whatevez.
20130205 11:35:47< Espreon> Someone's gotta like it.
20130205 11:36:10< Rhonda> Oh, didn't think about that part - it also starts with an a.  Yay me! :D
20130205 11:36:16< elias> well, it is the "main story" of Wesnoth, have to like it :P
20130205 11:36:29< Rhonda> Ivanovic, can you also add a quad-A record?
20130205 11:36:41< Espreon> elias: I don't.
20130205 11:36:48< Espreon> And now I'm officially exiled.
20130205 11:37:39< Ivanovic> Rhonda: you mean as type? there i only have A, MX and CNAME as choice
20130205 11:38:02< Rhonda> No AAAA?
20130205 11:38:13< Rhonda> No SRV?
20130205 11:38:19< Ivanovic> nope
20130205 11:38:22< Rhonda> … yuck.
20130205 11:38:34< Rhonda> I need to spank cyrilb then. :)
20130205 11:38:36< Ivanovic> just A, CNAME or MX
20130205 11:38:39< Ivanovic> exactly
20130205 11:39:02< Ivanovic> everyone: soon you should be able to reach the new box under asheviere.wesnoth.org
20130205 11:39:34 * zookeeper nominates vraurk, pirk and gork :>
20130205 11:40:02< elias> Ivanovic: how is your health btw.?
20130205 11:41:24< Ivanovic> improving, that is the headache is still there but at least the coughing is significantly reduced
20130205 11:41:26< zookeeper> there's a lot of slightly less obvious picks with nice short easy names like alanin, burin, cylanna, dacyn, esanoo
20130205 11:41:46< Ivanovic> and i am still feeling completely powerless
20130205 11:41:56< Ivanovic> meaning: ko after 50m of walking and stuff like this
20130205 11:42:56< Rhonda> Ivanovic, you announced that prematurely, not even ns1 and ns2.jexiste.org return the new server's IP.  :)
20130205 11:43:17< Ivanovic> Rhonda: that is why i said *soon*
20130205 11:43:33< Ivanovic> everyone in this chan should know that dns name propagation usually takes some hours
20130205 11:44:43< elias> Ivanovic: i see. so yeah, guess it's the difference of just a cold and actual flu :P
20130205 11:44:56< Ivanovic> jepp
20130205 11:44:56< Rhonda> Ivanovic: Don't announce things before they happened. ;)
20130205 11:45:07< Rhonda> And it's not about dns name propagation.
20130205 11:45:19< Rhonda> It's about that the servers responsible for the domain don't even know the IP yet.
20130205 11:45:26< Ivanovic> it is, since the 2nd server needs it propagated from the first
20130205 11:45:28< Ivanovic> ;)
20130205 11:45:33< Rhonda> So there is nothing that could propagate.
20130205 11:45:54< Ivanovic> and of course it requires some of the strange jexiste update cycles which i have no info about
20130205 11:46:06< Ivanovic> all info i got is that the value in the webinterface is adusted and stored
20130205 11:46:14< Rhonda> rhonda@anguilla:~$ dig asheviere.wesnoth.org @ns1.jexiste.org +short; dig asheviere.wesnoth.org @ns2.jexiste.org +short
20130205 11:46:17< Rhonda> 65.18.193.12
20130205 11:46:20< Rhonda> 65.18.193.12
20130205 11:47:10< Ivanovic> Rhonda: so be patient
20130205 11:47:34< Ivanovic> elias: yeah, when you order a flue you really get something for the money...
20130205 11:47:48< Ivanovic> sadly i did not place this order for me
20130205 11:47:57< Ivanovic> and there was no way to return it to sender
20130205 11:47:59< Ivanovic> :(
20130205 11:48:09< Rhonda> I am not patient. :)
20130205 11:48:31< Ivanovic> for the start maybe drink a cup of tea
20130205 11:48:37< Ivanovic> at least that is what i am doing right now
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20130205 13:49:45< Rhonda> Ivanovic, do you really think the delay for jexiste *themself* would be 2 hours?  :)
20130205 13:50:34< Rhonda> … it's not that I disbelieve what you've done through their interface - but that's huge.
20130205 13:53:17< Ivanovic> Rhonda: yeah, their system does not update every 5min
20130205 13:53:25< Ivanovic> it was significantly longer
20130205 13:53:41< Rhonda> Somehow I am not convinced about their service anymore …
20130205 13:54:07< Rhonda> Especially since it doesn't seem to be possible to set TTLs at all neither.
20130205 13:54:24< Rhonda> And that in "expert mode".  :)
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20130205 14:33:49< H-Hour_> i'm a developer with another open-source game, ufo: alien invasion. I was wondering if anyone on the wesnoth team is around who might be able to give some advice on open-source fonts and internationalization.
20130205 14:34:12< H-Hour_> we're currently working on a new UI, and i would love to be able to use some interesting fonts, but of course we face the problem that most non-standard fonts are not internationalized
20130205 14:34:44< H-Hour_> and swapping out different fonts for different languages is not easy, since they have very different proportions.
20130205 14:35:06< H-Hour_> i just thought I'd check in here to see if maybe one of you has encountered this problem and has some suggestions for how to deal with it
20130205 14:36:32< Ivanovic> you need to swap out founds for some languages anyway
20130205 14:36:42< ChrisOelmueller> we at not-wesnoth swap out fonts
20130205 14:36:43< Ivanovic> s/founds/fonts
20130205 14:37:21< Ivanovic> e.g. you will most likely find no font which is really great for ascii and also covers chinese, arabic and hebrew at the same time
20130205 14:37:44< Ivanovic> not to forget japanese and traditional chinese
20130205 14:38:13< Ivanovic> though it is good to start with a font which supports many languages, like e.g. dejavu
20130205 14:38:44< Ivanovic> and a general problem you will face in the UI area is space
20130205 14:39:04< Ivanovic> e.g. it makes sense to write the game with >1 language in mind during creation of the texts
20130205 14:39:09< H-Hour_> yes, dejavu is what we're using now. i was hoping you might have encountered a more flexible base, but you're right. we'll just have to handle the swaps
20130205 14:39:16< Ivanovic> and one of those languages should require lots of space like e.g. german
20130205 14:40:21< Ivanovic> e.g. in wesnoth the font order is translateable
20130205 14:40:33< Ivanovic> meaning: japanese has a different font order than chinese
20130205 14:40:48< Ivanovic> depending on what the translators chose
20130205 14:40:58< H-Hour_> yeah, same with us
20130205 14:41:17< H-Hour_> thanks for the response Ivanovic. i figured that was the case but thought I would check with you guys. much appreciated.
20130205 14:41:18< ChrisOelmueller> if you want to cover the most of everything for the sake of displaying *anything*, consider gnu unifont
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20130205 14:41:59< Ivanovic> i could give you more of a response but am currently handicapped by the flu (headache and all the stuff)
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20130205 15:21:48< lipkab> shadowm, Gambit: The area under the minimap is already quite problematic on lower resolutions, I'd rather not throw yet another button there.
20130205 15:22:55< lipkab> shadowm: Dynamic cont
20130205 15:23:08< lipkab> ...ent requires a dynamic interface.
20130205 15:24:33< lipkab> 20130205 01:08:48< shadowm> Also, it makes it quite harder for me to enforce our UI conventions there.
20130205 15:26:07< lipkab> ^ You can't enforce any conventions in random UMC content. It's not special to this dialog.
20130205 15:27:14< lipkab> Gambit: Sure, I'll see what can I do about tooltips.
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20130205 15:35:35< Rhonda> There was a suggestion to add a "random server" entry into the server list, which would have domainname that is DNS round robin'ed to all our servers.
20130205 15:35:51< Rhonda> Could help load balancing for players that don't plan to meet up with someone specific.
20130205 15:36:01< Rhonda> Wanted?  Bad idea?
20130205 15:36:17 * Rhonda . o O ( now that we can update DNS the way we like …  ;) )
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20130205 15:38:47< Soliton> as an option, why not. so far pretty much everyone will be on server.wesnoth.org if possible but that might change especially once we have two powerful servers at our disposal.
20130205 15:41:20< elias> will one of the servers be able to run a VM?
20130205 15:42:20< elias> where wesnoth.exe could be run inside and then if it hits some recursive WML and eats up all RAM nothing bad would happen
20130205 15:45:59< Soliton> both will.
20130205 15:46:48< Soliton> we don't have a windows VM yet though.
20130205 15:47:13< Soliton> you should be in #wesnoth-dev-nonpublic ;-)
20130205 15:50:55< elias> yes, i meant linux wesnoth anyway
20130205 15:51:11< elias> just added .exe to mean the binary
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20130205 15:53:11< elias> i tried fixing units.wesnoth.org during fosdem, but running it on my own server showed that for some UMCs "wesnoth --preprocess" will eat up all available RAM :P
20130205 15:53:31< elias> and ulimit proved quite useless to deal with it
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20130205 17:59:56< bumbadadabum> zookeeper: I made a patch for flag variants in mainline campaigns
20130205 18:00:07< bumbadadabum> thought you might want to take a look at it
20130205 18:02:20< zookeeper> i see
20130205 18:02:38< zookeeper> well, if it works, then i guess i don't need to...
20130205 18:02:50< bumbadadabum> well
20130205 18:02:59< bumbadadabum> I made some changes
20130205 18:03:03< bumbadadabum> mostly in DM
20130205 18:03:16< bumbadadabum> changing the flag variant for delfador to long
20130205 18:03:34< bumbadadabum> and mostly adding the wood elf flag to most campaigns
20130205 18:03:53< zookeeper> mmkay
20130205 18:04:17< bumbadadabum> As I did it, long is now Delfador/Konrad's flag
20130205 18:04:30< bumbadadabum> and the elves use the wood elf flag
20130205 18:04:36< zookeeper> i'm desperately trying to get away from active wesnoth work for a while so i'd have time for other projects, so i'll try to look at things as little as possible ;)
20130205 18:04:45< bumbadadabum> Ok
20130205 18:04:50< bumbadadabum> I'll just submit it then
20130205 18:04:54< zookeeper> sure
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20130205 19:56:37< mordante> servus
20130205 19:56:49< bumbadadabum> hallo
20130205 19:56:59< mordante> hi bumbadadabum 
20130205 20:00:03 * mordante joins shadowm; cries another river
20130205 20:01:01< mordante> lipkap please remove the hard-coded GUI from src/mp_options.cpp this against _ALL_ gui2 design principles
20130205 20:01:42< mordante> the main goal of GUI2 was to remove all hard-coded gui interfaces
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20130205 21:24:51< lipkab> mordante: The layout of the options dialog is not known at load time therefore I can not use the standard GUI2 facilities to define it.
20130205 21:25:43< lipkab> As far as I know, there isn't a way to add widgets "manually" to an existing dialog either.
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20130205 21:53:26< mordante> lipkab, if it is needed there needs to be a proper interface and not this horrible hack
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20130205 22:05:20< mordante> I'm off bye
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20130205 22:17:13< lipkab> mordante: GUI2 only supports config-based dialog construction, and working up a different codepath for this sole little window sounds like an awful wasting of time to me.
20130205 22:18:33< lipkab> (Assuming that it's the pseudo-WML initialization is what you mean by "horrible hack")
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20130205 22:22:49< irker132> wesnoth: jamit * r56173 /trunk/src/ (actions/vision.cpp actions/vision.hpp game_events.cpp): 
20130205 22:22:50< irker132> wesnoth: A tweak to the way fog/shroud is cleared during a [teleport] action:
20130205 22:22:50< irker132> wesnoth: Clear the destination hex before the teleport animation (so it can be seen), and
20130205 22:22:51< irker132> wesnoth: clear the remaining hexes after the animation (when it looks like the unit can see them).
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20130205 23:10:37< fendrin> esr: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=547295#p547295
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--- Log closed Wed Feb 06 00:00:05 2013