--- Log opened Thu Feb 21 00:00:22 2013 20130221 00:02:18< pydsigner> Hello Alarantalara 20130221 00:02:40< Alarantalara> hello 20130221 00:08:40-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20130221 00:12:03-!- pydsigner is now known as pyndragon|afk 20130221 00:12:18-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20130221 00:15:47-!- Crendgrim [~crend@port-92-204-27-74.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20130221 00:16:17-!- Crendgrim [~crend@port-92-204-27-74.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20130221 00:18:36-!- pyndragon|afk is now known as pydsigner 20130221 00:20:48< mattsc> Alarantalara: the relative damage metric we're currently using in Fred appears to be too simplistic. I don't think I can make things work the way I want to with it the way it is. 20130221 00:21:00< mattsc> So I am trying to come up with an approximate counter attack damage metric instead. 20130221 00:21:37< mattsc> ... and in the process, I've discovered a bug in the full counter attack calculation. 20130221 00:22:52< mattsc> I doubt that fixing that will make Fred suddenly play a lot better, but it might prevent the occasional careless attack by the AI leader. 20130221 00:40:42< pydsigner> Erg, I have no idea why my Lua does not work 20130221 00:40:55< _8680_> Ask in the Lua Labs. 20130221 00:41:17< pydsigner> Yeah 20130221 00:41:52< pydsigner> However, is there any in-depth guide to Lua+WML? The link I saw in that categories description is not helpful at all 20130221 00:42:28< _8680_> ? 20130221 00:43:33< bumbadadabum> Post subject: This game is turn based crack 20130221 00:43:35< bumbadadabum> LMAO 20130221 00:57:41-!- shadowm_desktop is now known as shadowm 20130221 01:00:45-!- _8680_ [~quassel@198.134.93.254] has quit [] 20130221 01:02:44-!- pydsigner is now known as pydsigner|away 20130221 01:03:35-!- bumbadadabum [~bumbadada@d155109.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: bumbadadabum] 20130221 01:18:39-!- mattsc [~mattsc@fw.hia.nrc.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20130221 01:38:50-!- Octalot [~noct@host86-148-68-137.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [] 20130221 02:04:03-!- mattsc [~mattsc@d154-20-32-241.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20130221 02:31:36-!- loonybot [~loonybot@wesnoth/bot/loonybot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20130221 03:03:33-!- Crendgrim_ [~crend@port-92-204-91-78.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20130221 03:07:50-!- Crendgrim [~crend@port-92-204-27-74.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20130221 04:15:13-!- shadowm [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20130221 04:16:37-!- shadowm [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20130221 04:24:03< mattsc> Alarantalara: difference in average HP of the exact and approximate counter attack calcs: http://pastebin.com/53bw36zX 20130221 04:24:16< mattsc> s/of/between 20130221 04:25:19< mattsc> This isn't quite a representative sample in that it is always an orcish archer, but he randomly starts with between 20 and 35 HP and is up against 1 to 5 enemies (either grunts or archers) with random starting HP. 5000 samples. 20130221 04:26:28< mattsc> For what I need, this is quite acceptable, I think, and it's *a lot* faster than the exact method. 20130221 04:32:25< Alarantalara> Wasn't the reason for the exact values due to units with single high strength attacks like thunderers? 20130221 04:43:02< mattsc> Among other things, yes. 20130221 04:43:40< mattsc> And it wouldn't work for the percentages either, but it's ok for average HP (on average). 20130221 04:44:41< mattsc> The thing is that using relative damage as we do so far is even farther off, and the full calculation is too expensive to do for all moves, so this is the best compromise I've come up with so far. 20130221 04:46:14< mattsc> My goal is to use the exact calculation when it's critical (for the AI leader etc.), and the approximation in most other cases. No idea yet if that will work... 20130221 04:50:27-!- happygrue [~happygrue@wesnoth/developer/wintermute] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20130221 04:52:34< mattsc> Alarantalara: just for the hell of it, here are 500 runs against 1-5 thunderers: http://pastebin.com/EKbDYC3h 20130221 04:53:00< mattsc> I wouldn't exactly call that a problem 20130221 04:54:42< Alarantalara> Looking at the results, I'm starting to think I don't know what they're being used for 20130221 04:54:47< mattsc> (and of course the variance if I go to higher-defense terrain, but it's still much better than the current method) 20130221 04:55:02-!- _8680_ [~quassel@ma92736d0.tmodns.net] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20130221 04:55:08< mattsc> *variance would increase* 20130221 04:55:31-!- pydsigner|away is now known as pydsigner 20130221 04:55:41< mattsc> I am putting an orcish archer out there (onto flat terrain) and randomly give him between 20 and 35 HP. 20130221 04:56:20< mattsc> The I create 1-5 thunderers (randomly), with between 10 and full HP and run a counter attack calculation of all those thunderers against the archer. 20130221 05:00:16< pydsigner> _8680_, that is the link I saw and found un-helpful 20130221 05:01:29< _8680_> pydsigner: What more do you want, then? 20130221 05:02:21< pydsigner> I'm constructing WML in Lua from new segments and passed WML. 20130221 05:02:28< pydsigner> And... it's failing terribly. 20130221 05:03:33< _8680_> I again recommend Lua Labs. 20130221 05:04:21< _8680_> "constructing WML in Lua from new segments and passed WML" how? 20130221 05:04:28< _8680_> Like [insert_tag]? 20130221 05:04:33< _8680_> But in Lua? 20130221 05:04:40< mattsc> Alarantalara: just ran it once more with the archer on 60% terrain (against thunderers) and it doesn't look a whole lot different. 20130221 05:04:52< mattsc> A bit more divergent, but not by much. 20130221 05:05:12< _8680_> pydsigner: (Disclaimer: I have never done anything of the sort, nor used [insert_tag].) 20130221 05:06:19< Alarantalara> mattsc: What I'm missing is what the values represent and how the result is used by Fred 20130221 05:09:42< mattsc> Oh, sorry, that makes sense ... (duh) 20130221 05:10:09< mattsc> The front column is the average HP outcome from the exact calculation 20130221 05:10:36< mattsc> the other columns are how often we get what difference for the approximate calculation. 20130221 05:11:18-!- pydsigner [~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/pydsigner] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20130221 05:11:36< Alarantalara> Ah, if you just do averages, then yes, they would be close most of the time. 20130221 05:12:11< mattsc> Right. Everything else wouldn't work very well, so that's all I'm going for. 20130221 05:13:09< mattsc> So what I want to do with Fred is calculations like: "if I move to hex x,y with my archer, how many enemies can attack me there and what's the average outcome if they all attack me" 20130221 05:14:03< mattsc> But doing this correctly is too much in terms of calc. time, while this approach might work - and will be better than the generic relative damage rating we're currently using./ 20130221 05:14:39< mattsc> ... and which just don't work; thus my exclamations of frustration yesterday 20130221 05:27:19-!- _8680_ [~quassel@ma92736d0.tmodns.net] has quit [] 20130221 05:33:55-!- shadowm [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has left #wesnoth-umc-dev [] 20130221 05:47:59-!- ancestral [~ancestral@67-6-49-155.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20130221 05:59:50-!- _8680_ [~quassel@ip68-225-249-82.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20130221 06:37:27-!- ancestral 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20130221 12:14:51-!- lobby [~wesnoth@wesnoth/bot/lobby] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20130221 12:14:51-!- Topic for #wesnoth-umc-dev: Wesnoth-UMC-Dev Project discussion and support channel | http://wesnoth-umc-dev.ai0867.net | Staff: AI0867, Espreon | Blog: http://wesnoth-umc-dev.ai0867.net/blog/ | IRC logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org, http://irclogs.ai0867.net 20130221 12:14:51-!- Topic set by shadowm [] [Mon Aug 27 11:27:23 2012] 20130221 12:14:51[Users #wesnoth-umc-dev] 20130221 12:14:51[@ChanServ] [ Crendgrim] [ iwaim ] [ melinath ] [ vultraz ] 20130221 12:14:51[+wesbot ] [ esr ] [ lobby ] [ shadowm_laptop] [ zookeeper] 20130221 12:14:51[ AI0867 ] [ fendrin ] [ loonycyborg] [ skyfaller ] 20130221 12:14:51-!- Irssi: #wesnoth-umc-dev: Total of 14 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 1 voices, 12 normal] 20130221 12:14:52-!- Home page for #wesnoth-umc-dev: http://wesnoth-umc-dev.ai0867.net 20130221 12:15:18-!- Channel #wesnoth-umc-dev created Mon Mar 31 16:51:24 2008 20130221 12:16:13-!- Irssi: Join to #wesnoth-umc-dev was synced in 89 secs 20130221 12:22:12-!- loonybot [~loonybot@wesnoth/bot/loonybot] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20130221 12:22:16-!- mode/#wesnoth-umc-dev [+v loonybot] by ChanServ --- Log opened Thu Feb 21 12:43:15 2013 20130221 12:43:26-!- lobby [~wesnoth@wesnoth/bot/lobby] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20130221 12:43:27-!- Topic for #wesnoth-umc-dev: Wesnoth-UMC-Dev Project discussion and support channel | http://wesnoth-umc-dev.ai0867.net | Staff: AI0867, Espreon | Blog: http://wesnoth-umc-dev.ai0867.net/blog/ | IRC logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org, http://irclogs.ai0867.net 20130221 12:43:27-!- Topic set by shadowm [] [Mon Aug 27 11:27:23 2012] 20130221 12:43:27[Users #wesnoth-umc-dev] 20130221 12:43:27[@ChanServ] [ Crendgrim] [ iwaim ] [ melinath ] [ vultraz ] 20130221 12:43:27[+loonybot] [ esr ] [ lobby ] [ shadowm_laptop] [ zookeeper] 20130221 12:43:27[+wesbot ] [ fendrin ] [ loonycyborg] [ skyfaller ] 20130221 12:43:27-!- Irssi: #wesnoth-umc-dev: Total 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has quit [Client Quit] 20130221 16:14:12-!- _8680_ [~quassel@ip68-225-249-82.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20130221 16:30:48-!- mattsc [~mattsc@fw.hia.nrc.ca] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20130221 17:06:10-!- bumbadadabum [~bumbadada@d155109.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20130221 17:42:06-!- AI0867 [~ai@wesnoth/developer/ai0867] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20130221 17:53:19-!- AI0867 [~ai@wesnoth/developer/ai0867] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20130221 18:16:01-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20130221 18:36:39-!- fendrin [~fabi@wesnoth/developer/fendrin] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20130221 18:38:14-!- fendrin [~fabi@88-134-46-174-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20130221 18:38:15-!- fendrin [~fabi@88-134-46-174-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Changing host] 20130221 18:38:15-!- fendrin [~fabi@wesnoth/developer/fendrin] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20130221 18:41:11-!- bumbadadabum [~bumbadada@d155109.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: bumbadadabum] 20130221 19:07:34-!- bumbadadabum [~bumbadada@d155109.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20130221 19:19:35-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy] 20130221 19:36:24-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20130221 20:43:33< bumbadadabum> _8680_: If you think it's a problem, feel free to delete my post in Flameslash's thread 20130221 20:43:39< bumbadadabum> it was mainly just me being silly 20130221 20:45:38< _8680_> bumbadadabum: Apology accepted, if you are apologizing. 20130221 20:45:49< _8680_> The post, however, shall remain as a warning to others. 20130221 20:45:56< bumbadadabum> ok 20130221 20:48:18< bumbadadabum> my post was not supposed as a meta-thread though 20130221 22:52:39-!- _8680_ [~quassel@ip68-225-249-82.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [] 20130221 22:59:19-!- _8680_ [~quassel@ip68-225-249-82.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #wesnoth-umc-dev 20130221 23:50:01-!- 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