--- Log opened Sat Feb 23 00:00:23 2013
--- Day changed Sat Feb 23 2013
20130223 00:00:23 * pydsigner dies laughing
20130223 00:00:39< pydsigner> Anyways, I have an Idea for smaster's unit.
20130223 00:00:53< bumbadadabum> is it going to be a Shadow Master?
20130223 00:00:57< bumbadadabum> like in IftU?
20130223 00:02:44< pydsigner> I could do that, but I was thinking a Dwarven Arcanister with 80% CTH banhammer.
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20130223 00:02:54< bumbadadabum> 80%?
20130223 00:03:04< bumbadadabum> just 80%?
20130223 00:03:21< pydsigner> Precise feels too overpowered. ATM, anyways
20130223 00:03:29< bumbadadabum> yeah, it might be
20130223 00:03:50< pydsigner> Especially since I might add a special.
20130223 00:04:27< pydsigner> This idea might belong in TWFF though.
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20130223 00:10:56< pydsigner> Unless mattsc wants something else, I think I'm going to make him an over-powered rouser with level 5 or 6 leadership
20130223 00:11:09< bumbadadabum> do that
20130223 00:12:25< bumbadadabum> what are you going to make me?
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20130223 00:56:22< pydsigner> Haven't decided yet
20130223 00:57:34< bumbadadabum> make wesbot a huge automaton
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20130223 00:58:47< pydsigner> The Pacificator?
20130223 00:58:58< bumbadadabum> bigger
20130223 00:59:07< bumbadadabum> at least AtS Magnum Suit level
20130223 01:00:13< pydsigner> Magnum Suit? Don't see that unit
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20130223 01:01:09< bumbadadabum> it's big and it flies
20130223 01:01:21< bumbadadabum> plus it has a badass hammer
20130223 01:02:49< pydsigner> Is that in a newer version or what? I don't see it
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20130223 01:02:57< bumbadadabum> yes
20130223 01:03:00< bumbadadabum> latest version
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20130223 01:05:29< mattsc> I like goblins, in particular those carrying prunes.
20130223 01:05:46< bumbadadabum> make a boss prune goblin
20130223 01:05:48 * pydsigner lols
20130223 01:05:58< pydsigner> mattsc: The prunes are awesome
20130223 01:06:09< pydsigner> That will be the ranged weapon
20130223 01:06:12< mattsc> And they are tasty too.
20130223 01:06:16< bumbadadabum> explosive prunes
20130223 01:06:18< pydsigner> Regenerates
20130223 01:06:23< mattsc> Hi, Alarantalara.  Combinatorics question for you:
20130223 01:06:50< pydsigner> "You have been hit by a giant explosive AI-guided prune. You have been killed. Game over."
20130223 01:07:23< mattsc> Currently the biggest bottleneck in the (approximate) counter attack calculation is getting all the attack combinations of the enemy units against the given AI unit.
20130223 01:07:41< mattsc> Do you know any smart (=fast) algorithms to do that?
20130223 01:07:54< bumbadadabum> that can be a lot of combinations
20130223 01:08:08< mattsc> Indeed, that's why it takes so long.
20130223 01:08:36< bumbadadabum> what was the general formula for those things again?
20130223 01:08:39< mattsc> But I just made something up and coded it myself.  Somebody smart must have come up with something that's better than that.
20130223 01:09:11< bumbadadabum> (attacks + ]
20130223 01:09:18< bumbadadabum> damnit fat fingers
20130223 01:09:32< bumbadadabum> I had this stuff a few years ago
20130223 01:09:48< mattsc> If you want just the number, then (under certain circumstances) you can get it from the binomial distribution.
20130223 01:09:56< bumbadadabum> yes
20130223 01:10:02< mattsc> But I don't just want the number of how many there are, but the actual combinations.
20130223 01:10:24< bumbadadabum> but that'd only be if the defense is 50% and the resistance 0
20130223 01:11:52< mattsc> Well, that's for the outcome.  And no, you can generalize that.  The question I am asking is different.
20130223 01:11:59< bumbadadabum> I'm trying to visualize a way to count combinations
20130223 01:13:07< bumbadadabum> well, take each combination separately
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20130223 01:15:35< mattsc> Well, if you have n units, each of which can get to k hexes (with k<n), you have n * (n-1) * ... (n-k+1) combinations
20130223 01:15:58< mattsc> = n! / k!
20130223 01:16:05< bumbadadabum> yes
20130223 01:16:07< bumbadadabum> ]
20130223 01:16:09< bumbadadabum> I know that much
20130223 01:16:23< mattsc> That is, if the order matters, that is
20130223 01:16:41< bumbadadabum> yes, but I think it doesn't in this scenario
20130223 01:16:56< bumbadadabum> right?
20130223 01:17:06< mattsc> Right.  That's a minor difference though, that's just another division.
20130223 01:17:13< mattsc> But, first of all, in a general situation in Wesnoth not all units can make it to all hexes.
20130223 01:17:41< mattsc> And second, I don't want the _number_ of combinations, but the actual combinations themselves.  All of them, in a table.
20130223 01:18:11< bumbadadabum> I should have payed attention during math class
20130223 01:18:56< shadowm_desktop> MATHS.
20130223 01:19:48< pydsigner> Hahahah
20130223 01:20:11 * shadowm_desktop faints.
20130223 01:20:13< Alarantalara> mattsc: What's supposed to be in the table?
20130223 01:20:30< Alarantalara> I'm having trouble finding what you're currently doing
20130223 01:20:58< pydsigner> Alarantalara: Is there a unit that you would like to have?
20130223 01:22:28< Alarantalara> pydsigner: What is the context of your question?
20130223 01:24:00< pydsigner> Alarantalara: I'm going to write an IRC UMC Devs RPG Era
20130223 01:25:01< mattsc> Alarantalara: ai_helper.get_attack_combos()
20130223 01:25:02< pydsigner> So if you have noticed these discussions, mattsc is going to be a super-Rouser (with prunes!), I intend to be a mechanical dragon, etc.
20130223 01:25:36< bumbadadabum> shadowmaster must have a banhammer
20130223 01:25:47< bumbadadabum> AI0867 needs to be an AI
20130223 01:25:56< mattsc> Alarantalara: ideally I want a table that is something like:
20130223 01:26:19< mattsc> { hex_index = unit_index, ... }
20130223 01:26:53< pydsigner> bumbadadabum: So I imagine I will keep the Arcanister?
20130223 01:27:04< bumbadadabum> bigger hammer
20130223 01:27:19< pydsigner> Troll Warrior?
20130223 01:27:21< bumbadadabum> and more shadowy
20130223 01:27:28< bumbadadabum> I'm sure he can make his own sprite
20130223 01:27:39 * pydsigner imagines a Stealth Troll Warrior
20130223 01:27:51< bumbadadabum> with a crown
20130223 01:28:01< mattsc> Alarantalara: However, a table just listing the unit indices in the order of the hex indices (or vice versa) would be fine too.
20130223 01:28:20< mattsc> E.g { 1, 0, 0, 3}
20130223 01:28:42< mattsc> Meaning, Unit 1 on hex 1, no units on hexes 2 and 3, U3 on H4.
20130223 01:29:23< Alarantalara> And hexes are 1-6 around the target?
20130223 01:29:52< mattsc> They could be, or just the hexes that reachable by enemies.
20130223 01:30:38< pydsigner> bumbadadabum: So kinda like Zerovirus, only with a hammer. And a cloak. And a crown.
20130223 01:30:49< bumbadadabum> ask him
20130223 01:30:55< Alarantalara> So it's a list of all units and where they attack from, with all legal combinations?
20130223 01:31:28< pydsigner> shadowm: Are you interested?
20130223 01:31:43< mattsc> exactly
20130223 01:32:40< mattsc> Alarantalara: actually, having a quick look at AH.get_attack_combos, the problem could be the AH.get_attacks at the beginning not the creation of the combinations.
20130223 01:33:06< mattsc> Sorry, I missed that before.  So, forget (for now) that I ask.  I'll test that and report back.
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20130223 01:33:13< mattsc> *asked
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20130223 01:38:38< mattsc> Alarantalara: do'h, I'm an idiot.  That indeed seems to be the case.  Sorry for the bother in that case.
20130223 01:38:49< Alarantalara> no problem
20130223 01:39:32< mattsc> I think that's something I can work around, by creating the attack map only once at the beginning of each move, rather than for each attack combo calculation.
20130223 01:41:13< Alarantalara> pydsigner: I'd be something with the phase ability from here: http://wesnoth-umc-dev.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/wesnoth-umc-dev/trunk/Cataclysm/units/Allonna.cfg?revision=16365
20130223 01:41:24< Alarantalara> assuming I had unlimited choice
20130223 01:42:56< mattsc> Well, actually, no, it's not that easy.  But I'll figure something out.
20130223 01:43:03< Alarantalara> I think it's what a skirmisher would be like if it were magical, and I like that sort of idea
20130223 01:45:59< pydsigner> Alarantalara: Well, that could be thrown onto anything
20130223 01:46:30< mattsc> It comes back to the: where can the enemy units move to is my unit _were_ at a hex different from where it is.  I don't know of a way of doing this other than using the pathfinding tools, which take time...
20130223 01:47:13< mattsc> s/is/if  (I can't type again today; not even talking about the other typos in that sentence)
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20130223 01:48:12< pydsigner> bumbadadabum: Wow, the magnum warrior is rather huge
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20130223 01:48:30< Alarantalara> So you want a pathfinding algorithm that returns a result
20130223 01:48:43< Alarantalara> But which you can then modify and it updates?
20130223 01:48:49< Alarantalara> with recalculating everything
20130223 01:48:53< Alarantalara> *without
20130223 01:49:13< mattsc> Ideally.
20130223 01:51:33< Alarantalara> That sounds doable. I wonder if the speed cost of Lua will outweigh the reduction in calculation.
20130223 01:54:33< mattsc> Yeah, me too, in principle Nephro implemented something that exposed the C++ functions to Lua, but last time I tested it it didn't work for me.
20130223 01:54:46< mattsc> It's possible that I just did it wrong.
20130223 01:57:29< mattsc> I need to be off now though.  ttyl.
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20130223 17:05:36< mattsc> Alarantalara: I just tested a different method for getting the attacks that is significantly faster.
20130223 17:07:32< Alarantalara> excellent!
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20130223 17:08:13< mattsc> I knew the old method was very slow, but so far I've never had a need to change that.
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--- Log closed Sun Feb 24 00:00:41 2013