--- Log opened Mon Mar 11 00:00:26 2013
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20130311 02:02:01< faabumc> wesbot, seen lipkab
20130311 02:02:01< wesbot> faabumc: The person with the nick lipkab 12h 19m ago was here and on the channel #wesnoth with the message: Quit: And away we go
20130311 02:06:39< faabumc> lipkab, I am going to commit the revert I proposed for bug #20583 later in the week. Let me know if you have any problem with it.
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20130311 04:05:35-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.10.6 planned for March 16 | 169 bugs, 333 feature requests, 18 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20130311 10:51:12< boucman_work> _Coffee: btw, are you subscribed to the dev mailing list ?
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20130311 12:02:27< leighman> hi guys - thought about working on http://gna.org/bugs/?13703, any advice?
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20130311 12:17:40< _Coffee> boucman_work: I don't think I am subscribed to the dev list
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20130311 12:23:03< _Coffee> leighman: not sure if this helps, but some printer drivers scan the subnet that you are on for printers
20130311 12:23:03< _Coffee> this is how fuji-xerox printers do it for example
20130311 12:23:03< _Coffee> so it is not dependent on Operating System
20130311 12:23:04< _Coffee> whether or not the same principle could be applied to wesnoth, I would think so
20130311 12:29:36< _Coffee> boucman_work: I've now subscribed to the dev list
20130311 12:47:23< Ivanovic> shadowm: make sure to add _Coffee in the forum group devs
20130311 12:50:01< _Coffee> I think I am already a forum group dev
20130311 12:50:15< _Coffee> I have a "moderator control panel" and all :P
20130311 12:50:20< _Coffee> not that I need it much
20130311 12:50:36< _Coffee> it's almost like christmas
20130311 13:08:18< boucman_work> _Coffee: ok, cool
20130311 13:08:28< boucman_work> hehe
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20130311 13:09:29< boucman_work> esr: just as a note, _Coffee above is a new dev, so he might have sliped through your list for the big migration... contact him if you need his info
20130311 13:09:51< boucman_work> _Coffee: just so you know, esr is doing the heavy lifting of migrating wesnoth from svn to git
20130311 13:11:01< esr> _Coffee:: What is your Gna username?  I need your name among humans and your preferred email address, too.
20130311 13:14:16< _Coffee> hi esr
20130311 13:14:29< _Coffee> my email is infiniteloopcounter@gmail.com
20130311 13:14:36< _Coffee> my actual name is David Mikos
20130311 13:14:56< esr> OK.
20130311 13:15:16< esr> And your Gna username?
20130311 13:15:31< _Coffee> ah, that'swhat you actually asked for isn't it :P
20130311 13:15:41< _Coffee> "Coffee"
20130311 13:15:59< _Coffee> a bit unimaginative, but hey
20130311 13:17:01< _Coffee> looks like GNA makes it lowercase
20130311 13:17:12< _Coffee> in case that matters
20130311 13:18:19< esr> My reposujeon code case-smashes usenames, anyway, because it's nort predictable when OSes and web intefaces will do that.
20130311 13:18:31< esr> You are entered.
20130311 13:18:40< _Coffee> thanks
20130311 13:18:51< esr> What are you working on?
20130311 13:19:10< _Coffee> at the moment I am working with boucman on simplifying the animation WML syntax
20130311 13:19:28< _Coffee> and making it more optimized for the cache and RAM usage
20130311 13:19:37< esr> Good.
20130311 13:19:46< _Coffee> which seems to be important as the new art that is going in is raising the RAM usage
20130311 13:20:41< _Coffee> with the recent changes, we've taken about 1/4 of the lines of WML out of the main unit files and macros
20130311 13:20:54< _Coffee> with the same overall effect
20130311 13:21:52< _Coffee> with some more changes (with sound frames) I think it will approach about 1/3 taken out
20130311 13:21:58< esr> I used to do a lot of things on this project - producing campaigns, improving the prose in mainline, WML validation tools, maintaining world continuity.  These days I am semi-retired, but I came back to get the repo lift done, because I wrote the best tool for it.
20130311 13:22:03< _Coffee> so it is more readable
20130311 13:22:35< esr> I think the WML bulk reduction is a good idea.
20130311 13:23:26< _Coffee> the functions may also be useful for terrainWML, I don't know
20130311 13:24:05< _Coffee> actually I don't really know what most of the devs specialize in here
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20130311 13:24:14< zookeeper> _Coffee, boucman_work, btw, that animation-condensing stuff is really nice.
20130311 13:24:23< esr> You'll learn.
20130311 13:25:29< boucman_work> zookeeper: that's all _Coffee's idea, i'm semi-retired too :P
20130311 13:26:08< _Coffee> I'm happy running stuff past boucman, as he wrote the initial code
20130311 13:26:32< esr> I do mean to finish and produce "Wings of Victory" with fendrin, though.
20130311 13:26:47< _Coffee> and it has helped that I know I can get pointers no where to start looking through the code
20130311 13:27:17< esr> And I might be open to producing more campaigns if something really good pops up in UMC.
20130311 13:27:19< _Coffee> *to
20130311 13:28:44< boucman_work> esr: I have to admit that having someone with literrary skills when making UMC mainline quality is awesome
20130311 13:30:10< _Coffee> Is Wings of Victory that drake campaign?
20130311 13:30:53< esr> boucman_work: I hope I have taught some of the rest of you how to raise your game when writing English.  Taurus's writing certainly improved when I was working with him, and I think I've seen some effect omn Shadowmaster as well.
20130311 13:31:11< esr> _Coffee: Yes, it is.
20130311 13:31:41< _Coffee> I know I am only new here, but please finish it and make it mainline ;)
20130311 13:31:54< _Coffee> there are no drake campaigns that are mainline
20130311 13:31:55< esr> _Coffee: I'm glad you like it.
20130311 13:32:14< boucman_work> esr: :) I hope so :P
20130311 13:33:18< esr> _Coffee: I think like a science-fiction writer - I like to do stuff that explores Wesnoth in a logically consistent way - at least working out the consequences of the fantasy premises logically.
20130311 13:36:17< _Coffee> the drakes are certainly unique as a race
20130311 13:36:34< esr> _Coffee: Yes, that's their aoppeal.
20130311 13:37:41< esr> The fun part was inventing a biology and consequent cultural pattern for them that explains their "observed" behavior.  I love doing that sort of thing.
20130311 13:37:42< _Coffee> esr: are you aware that the artists are making a new map?
20130311 13:37:55< _Coffee> I assume it is similar to the old one of course
20130311 13:37:57< esr> Yes but I haven't seen it.
20130311 13:38:21< _Coffee> as far as I can see the top bit may change a little
20130311 13:38:35< _Coffee> that might affect the drakes?
20130311 13:38:43< esr> I hope they didn't throw away all my pretty names. :-)
20130311 13:39:25< _Coffee> you'd better hurry up and finish the campaign then :P
20130311 13:39:29< zookeeper> what names?
20130311 13:39:36< esr> It probably won't.  As long as there are remote areas of the Heart Mountains for them to build eyries in... 
20130311 13:40:31< esr> zookeeper: You've forgotten?  I named the Lintanir Forest, the Estmarks, and a couple of the minor rivers.  Other things as well.
20130311 13:40:41< zookeeper> oh, right. sure, nothing major's missing.
20130311 13:41:26< zookeeper> and if you still haven't seen them, the currently finished ones are in the first post here: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=38186
20130311 13:42:19< esr> _Coffee: One of my other functions is that I am the Oracle of Names :-)  Campaign devs come to me when they need cool names for stuff.
20130311 13:42:47< zookeeper> plenty of room for drakes there, and especially in the south (southeast corner of the TSG map, and further) there's mountains which i figured would be good places for drakes
20130311 13:43:24< esr> zookeeper: Yes, I see that.
20130311 13:43:33< _Coffee> esr: I'll remember that
20130311 13:45:06< esr> _Coffee: There's a trick to generating names that are phonotactiucally consistent, as though they come from a real language rather than being random lumps of phonemes.
20130311 13:45:22< esr> I happen to be good at it.
20130311 13:46:07 * esr notes that Ihe still needs to change "Dan'Tonk" - it doesn't really fit Wesnothian.
20130311 13:48:21< _Coffee> esr: looks like the map is already made with that http://forums.wesnoth.org/download/file.php?id=60793&mode=view
20130311 13:48:37< esr> Wesnothian has a sound pattern mostly like Welsh with a bit of Anglo-Saxon.
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20130311 13:49:46< _Coffee> most of the names look to me like they wouldn't be out of place in a tolien novel
20130311 13:49:52< _Coffee> *Tolkien
20130311 13:50:08< esr> _Coffee: That is deliberate.
20130311 13:50:14< _Coffee> Lintanir, Soradoc
20130311 13:50:40< _Coffee> makes for a good setting, especially when there is an orc faction
20130311 13:50:55< esr> _Coffee: We hace to usr the tropes everyone knows, because the format of campaigns does not readily support a lot of exposition.
20130311 13:51:00< _Coffee> not sure I've seen orcs anywhere but in a Tolkien type world
20130311 13:52:52< esr> One of the rules of writing campaigns is that the setting has to be unchallenging to players' expectations at the beginning, though you can introduce some novelty during it.  Otherwise players become disoriented and fail to connect with the narrative and the world.
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20130311 13:53:58< _Coffee> one thing I valued when I played some of the mainline campaigns was the occasional bit of humour
20130311 13:54:03< _Coffee> like the sea orc :)
20130311 13:54:11< esr> To a limite dextent this rule can be relaxed for "advanced" campaigns like UtBS, for which we can assume players will be more familiar with the peculiarities of the Wesnoth setting.
20130311 13:54:11< _Coffee> I think everyone remembers the sea orc
20130311 13:54:17< esr> Yes :-)
20130311 13:54:34< vultraz> ...I do not remember the sea orc
20130311 13:54:38< esr> "Will somebody please kill that idiot?"
20130311 13:55:01< vultraz> Ohh. TRoW?
20130311 13:55:04< esr> I think that line is still in there.
20130311 13:55:08< esr> Yes.
20130311 13:55:17< vultraz> Or was it HttT...
20130311 13:55:23< _Coffee> HttT
20130311 13:55:36< _Coffee> in the chapter with the storm trident
20130311 13:55:37< esr> Um. You're right.
20130311 13:56:00< esr> I get that confused with TRoW's "Rough Landing".
20130311 13:56:25< vultraz> I always get LoW scenario 2 mixed up with TRoW scenario 3
20130311 13:56:58< esr> TRoW has, IMO, the best prose in mainline.  Even mine isn't reliably that good.
20130311 13:57:20< vultraz> didn't you do um...THoT?
20130311 13:57:31< esr> vultraz: I did.
20130311 13:59:10< esr> vultraz: But I rewrote some other campaigns pretty heavily.  
20130311 13:59:26< vultraz> My fav mainline campaigns are um...TRoW, DiD, UtBS, and AOI
20130311 14:00:26< vultraz> Fav UMC campaigns would be AtS, IftU, and TEG
20130311 14:00:53< _Coffee> IftU is pretty good
20130311 14:01:10< vultraz> AtS is even better :)
20130311 14:01:14< esr> vultraz: I didn't mess with the prose in TRoW much, it didn't need work.  Those others I prose-doctored pretty extensively.
20130311 14:01:28< vultraz> since shadowm had more experience
20130311 14:02:02< esr> What's "TEG"?  Don't think I know that one.
20130311 14:02:17< vultraz> The Earth's Gut
20130311 14:02:43< _Coffee> it was called something else before if I remember correctly
20130311 14:02:58< _Coffee> cna't believe that I can follow you guys with these strange acronyms
20130311 14:03:00< vultraz> Dwarven Kingdom
20130311 14:03:51< esr> I'll have to look at it and evaluate whether it should be produced for mainline.
20130311 14:04:34< _Coffee> consider making a drake campaign for mainline :P
20130311 14:04:45< _Coffee> there's already a dwarf campaign
20130311 14:04:48< esr> _Coffee: Already on it.:-)
20130311 14:04:55< vultraz> I don't think anon ever officially completed it. I asked him about it around a year a go and he said it was "in development" and would be completed "eventually"
20130311 14:05:03< esr> _Coffee: Yes, I wrote that one. :-)
20130311 14:06:00< _Coffee> is there still the intention to make these multiplayer down the line?
20130311 14:06:05< vultraz> I think it's the fact that the naga, saurians, and drakes don't lend themselves much to campaign writing
20130311 14:06:27< vultraz> Dwarves, Elves, Humans, Undead, and Orcs, however, lots of stuff to write there
20130311 14:06:33< _Coffee> you could vary the grunts and other sounds
20130311 14:07:07< vultraz> The Saurian and Naga factions aren't even very extensive
20130311 14:07:08< esr> vultraz: I actually have some notes for a saurians campaign - I've invented a biology and cultural pattern for them.
20130311 14:07:50< vultraz> Ah, that's good. Currently there's basically no info about them or the naga, or the drakes for that matter
20130311 14:07:57< esr> vultraz: They're kind of a cross between Bedou and Sicilians.  Never trust them. :-)
20130311 14:08:48< vultraz> (My personal fav faction is the undead)
20130311 14:09:39< esr> (Both model cultures accept levels of deception and treachery that are extreme by human standards.  The saurians are even more like that.)
20130311 14:09:40< _Coffee> there's a bit about the drakes in the help file under "drakes"
20130311 14:09:46< vultraz> well, mainline faction 
20130311 14:09:56< vultraz> fav UMC factions are Chaos and Shaxthals from AtS
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20130311 14:12:06< _Coffee> when it says boucman_work that doesn't mean you are at work does it? :P
20130311 14:12:18< vultraz> I'm honestly kinda disappointed AtS and IftU will never go to mainline, per shadowm's preference, but I kinda see why he doesn't want them in. They'd get butchered
20130311 14:12:31< _Coffee> I've got a public holiday here so I'm not slacking off
20130311 14:12:50< _Coffee> ;)
20130311 14:13:14< esr> vultraz: I had to be the bad guy who told him they were way too long.
20130311 14:13:34< vultraz> When most mainline campaigns deal with little wars and stuff, and his stuff deals with gods and aspects and ancient powers and the whole universe and a whole slew of planets besides Irdya...yeaaah :P
20130311 14:14:50< vultraz> Though I suppose it'd be an excuse to revive Thunderstone
20130311 14:15:10< vultraz> (inb4 shadowm "NO")
20130311 14:15:55< esr> vultraz: One of the problems with his campaigns is that the clise the universe - they give final answers to what's going on.  That's not good in a game like this.  Makes wtriting campaigns afyerward too constrained.
20130311 14:16:59< vultraz> Well, his campaigns are probably the furthest away, time-wise, from mainline campaigns, I don't think that would be much of a problem
20130311 14:17:26< esr> And yes, I wish someone would revive Thundestone. I put a fair amount of worldbuilding work into it - shame to see that wasted.
20130311 14:17:47< _Coffee> you could always change the ending to "and Kalenz woke up from a bad dream..."
20130311 14:18:08< vultraz> He has confirmed that there is a whole story arc after AtS, but it takes place on a different planet
20130311 14:18:24 * esr hits _Coffee with a large fish
20130311 14:18:29< vultraz> (Ethea, which is basically like Earth, only slightly more advanced)
20130311 14:18:49< _Coffee> ;)
20130311 14:19:02< vultraz> However, he said he scattered a ton of sequel hooks throughout AtS for UMC writers to usew
20130311 14:19:04< vultraz> use*
20130311 14:19:30< vultraz> bumbadadabum is working on a campaign atm using one of those
20130311 14:19:51< esr> vultraz: I don't mean afyterwards in world time.  I mean after the campaign has become canon.
20130311 14:20:30< esr> vultraz: At that point it may constrain other campaigns set earlier in time.
20130311 14:20:38< vultraz> hmm
20130311 14:20:40< vultraz> true
20130311 14:20:57< vultraz> seeing as his story extends back to the time of TDH
20130311 14:21:19< vultraz> that one campaign that never seems to get completed :P
20130311 14:23:25 * vultraz is making cake at midnight
20130311 14:28:29< zookeeper> _Coffee, intention to make what multiplayer?
20130311 14:29:38< _Coffee> I had thought there was the idea that some of the mainline cmapigns would have multiplayer variants added
20130311 14:29:49< _Coffee> like the elvish one
20130311 14:29:50< zookeeper> oh, right
20130311 14:30:05< zookeeper> i haven't heard of any concrete plans
20130311 14:30:23< _Coffee> I suspect that is because there are so many bugs at the moment :P
20130311 14:30:51< _Coffee> and it would be hard to maintain at present
20130311 14:30:59< vultraz> I think that would have been easier if Zaroth hadn't leaft before finishing his SP/MP merge GSoC project
20130311 14:31:04< vultraz> left*
20130311 14:31:18< zookeeper> maybe. and/or because it'd presumably be pretty difficult to adopt an existing SP campaign to MP
20130311 14:31:31< zookeeper> s/adopt/adapt
20130311 14:31:55< _Coffee> yes
20130311 14:32:31< _Coffee> you'd most need to come up with a formula for the difference in gold per type of map, number of enemies, etc.
20130311 14:32:42< _Coffee> or the testing would be long too
20130311 14:33:31< _Coffee> with changes to village support and AI with each version, this would be hard to balance
20130311 14:34:23< _Coffee> but I for sure would like to see it happen
20130311 14:35:16< _Coffee> I assume boucman_work is really at work :P
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20130311 14:36:20< _Coffee> I suppose I'd better get to sleep for work myself
20130311 14:36:49< _Coffee> not that my work involves sleeping, but you know
20130311 14:37:08< _Coffee> night
20130311 14:37:18< _Coffee> nice to meet some of you guys
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20130311 14:41:20< mattsc> esr: while you mentioned the topic, I haven't bugged you about what you want for the WoV AI since you seem plenty busy with other things at the moment.
20130311 14:41:47< mattsc> And I'm not having trouble keeping myself busy easier ...
20130311 14:42:05< esr> mattsc: Sadly. I am.  But I haven't dropped the idea.  Got to get the repo lify finished first.
20130311 14:43:08< mattsc> No worries.  I might actually have some time to continue working on our MP AI that way these next few weeks.
20130311 14:43:54< mattsc> (hmm, grammatically incorrect use of "our" in this context, I guess)
20130311 14:52:06< vultraz> ok maybe drinking 1.3 cans of soda and eating several pieces of bar cake, melted chocolate, and cake better all after 10 PM was a bad idea
20130311 14:55:18< vultraz> especially when most were nearer to midnight...
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20130311 15:26:33< vultraz> anyone recognize this track? https://dl.dropbox.com/u/95558676/reminisce.ogg
20130311 15:26:52< vultraz> trying to figure where I got it
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20130311 15:38:24< zookeeper> vultraz, http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=17246 ?
20130311 15:40:53< vultraz> ah that looks like it
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20130311 16:15:33< bumbadadabum> wesbot: seen fabi
20130311 16:15:33< wesbot> bumbadadabum: Person, who was using the nick fabi 6h ago, last spoke 20d 20h ago.  is now known as fabi_ here and on the channels #wesnoth, #wesnoth-de and #wesnoth-umc-dev.
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20130311 16:18:19< bumbadadabum> Is there someone else to talk about LoW with?
20130311 16:23:23< vultraz> bumbadadabum: fabi_ is here :P
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20130311 19:09:36< AI0867> wesbot: log r56480
20130311 19:09:37< wesbot> ai0867 * r56480 : Don't create El'isomithir twice in MP. Found by bumbadadabum
20130311 19:09:40< wesbot> URL: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth?view=rev&rev=56480
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20130311 19:15:37< esr> I need a wki wizard.  I'm getting some odd results when trying to change a page name.
20130311 19:16:05< esr> I mean, I need a *wiki* wizard.
20130311 19:22:42-!- hechim [~jad@164.67.71.252] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130311 19:23:46< hechim> Hello
20130311 19:23:59-!- mjs-de [~mjs-de@g224185004.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20130311 19:25:19< hechim> I would like to help out with the development of the game
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20130311 19:49:15< timotei> Look, we got art on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogue_%28character_class%29
20130311 19:49:20< timotei> D
20130311 19:49:25< timotei> :D
20130311 19:50:11< fabi_> bumbadadabum: Thanks for fixing the bug :-)
20130311 19:50:41< bumbadadabum> fabi_: No problem
20130311 19:50:52< bumbadadabum> WHAT YOU TALK?!
20130311 19:51:11< fabi_> No, I write.
20130311 19:51:25< bumbadadabum> fabi_: I played LoW S2 MP on easy today, and I noticed it's really easy on medium
20130311 19:51:40< bumbadadabum> the dwarves kill all the orcs
20130311 19:51:40< fabi_> But I must admit, sometimes I repeat what I write loudly.
20130311 19:51:50< bumbadadabum> ok.
20130311 19:51:54< bumbadadabum> *trolls
20130311 19:52:35< fabi_> Noted, the second scenario is too easy on medium. I will set it on my TODO.
20130311 19:53:07< fabi_> Ivanovic: I start working on the revert this evening.
20130311 19:53:38-!- fabi_ is now known as fendrin
20130311 19:54:56< bumbadadabum> fendrin: Also, the AI didn't seem to recruit any lv. 2 trolls
20130311 19:55:28< bumbadadabum> (This is all on MP, don't know about SP)
20130311 19:55:51< fendrin> bumbadadabum: That is strange.
20130311 19:57:19< fendrin> bumbadadabum: I don't really know about the status of MP campaigns. The last information I got is that crab and his gsoc student is working on support for choosing difficult levels of MP campaigns.
20130311 19:58:04< fendrin> That is not trivial since SP campaigns are going to be reparsed after choosing the difficult level.
20130311 19:59:11< fendrin> The MP stuff is only parsed once, when you enter the lobby, thus It wasn't possible to choose difficult levels.
20130311 19:59:18< bumbadadabum> I guess that's also why the LoW MP version is disabled by default
20130311 19:59:30< fendrin> What I did to support them nevertheless was a really ugly hack.
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20130311 20:00:07< fendrin> Indeed, that is why LoW MP is disabled by default. My plan was to resume work on LoW MP after the support for MP campaings is ready.
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20130311 20:00:27< bumbadadabum> I'll see how it's like in SP
20130311 20:00:52< fendrin> Please do so. LoW SP is currently in a much better state.
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20130311 21:53:04< esr> shadowm_desktop: The umcmg branch was yours, correct?
20130311 21:56:35< shadowm> I gave you an answer the other day.
20130311 21:58:46< esr> I must have missed it -there's nothing in my motes.
20130311 21:58:55< esr> s/motes/notes/
20130311 21:59:31< shadowm> wesbot: log 47129
20130311 21:59:32< wesbot> shadowmaster * r47129 : Create branch umcmg
20130311 21:59:33< wesbot> URL: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth?view=rev&rev=47129
20130311 21:59:43< shadowm> I said I don't know that guy.
20130311 21:59:52< shadowm> And that it is all I know about the branch.
20130311 22:07:48< esr> Funny guy.  Did it get mrged?  Should I remove it?
20130311 22:08:17< shadowm> I don't remember whether I continued working on that branch or deprecated it in favor of a private Git branch.
20130311 22:08:44< esr> Sounds like it ought to go, then.
20130311 22:08:47< shadowm> I don't remember whether I squash-merged it, cherry-picked series of patches, or did a plain rebase+FF merge.
20130311 22:08:55< shadowm> *the series
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20130311 22:10:31< shadowm> I personally don't care about the issue because I stopped using public branches at some point after public rebasing against trunk proved to be a difficult and pointless endeavor.
20130311 22:11:52< shadowm> Almost nobody ever checks public branches that aren't X.Y maintenance release branches, unless they are using git-svn, and even then it's difficult to find people with the interest to help.
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20130311 23:01:37< mattsc> Question for those of you more eloquent than I:  ToTB, Scenario 3, story text: "Whether I defeat this horse-warrior or no, the orcs will still come for me; "
20130311 23:01:52< mattsc> Is that intentionally like that, or should it be s/no/not ?
20130311 23:06:09< shadowm> fendrin: What's up with that thing that needs to be reverted?
20130311 23:06:42< shadowm> There's no point in hiding anymore. You last spoke three hours and approximately seven minutes ago.
20130311 23:09:51< shadowm> Ah, never mind, you said something about it in the middle of a completely orthogonal discussion, all right.
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20130311 23:50:56< esr> mattsc "or no" is not correct usage in modern English, but it was in Early Modern.  It's a deliberate archaism.
20130311 23:51:37< esr> mattsc: Usually when you trip over one of those it was me. :-)
--- Log closed Tue Mar 12 00:00:27 2013