--- Log opened Thu Mar 14 00:00:48 2013
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20130314 04:05:35-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.10.6 and 1.11.2 planned for March 16 | 171 bugs, 333 feature requests, 19 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20130314 07:20:17< shadowm> if (scroll_type == ONSCREEN || ONSCREEN_WARP) {
20130314 07:20:37< shadowm> display.cpp:2051 is borked.
20130314 07:21:12< shadowm> I wonder if I haven't been chasing the wrong bug all along...
20130314 07:45:41< shadowm> !log 49988
20130314 07:45:42< shikadibot> shadowm: Revision 49988 (fendrin) on Thu Jun 23 15:00:46 2011:
20130314 07:45:42< shikadibot> shadowm: Added the ONSCREEN_WARP scrolltype which compines the features of ONSCREEN and WARP scrolling.
20130314 07:45:45< shikadibot> shadowm: Web interface URL: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth?view=rev&rev=49988
20130314 07:45:49< shadowm> !tag 1.10.0
20130314 07:45:50< shikadibot> shadowm: Tag 1.10.0, revision 52748 (ivanovic) on Sun Jan 22 14:57:43 2012:
20130314 07:45:53< shikadibot> shadowm: tagged 1.10.0 (using r52747)
20130314 07:45:55< shikadibot> shadowm: 1.10 will be branched off after the announcement was posted
20130314 07:45:58< shikadibot> shadowm: posting the announcement is planned for January 29th
20130314 07:46:00< shikadibot> shadowm: Web interface URL: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth?view=rev&rev=52748
20130314 07:46:07 * shadowm bites fendrin.
20130314 07:47:09< shadowm> 03:32:18 <Krista^> it's equivalent to ((scroll_type == ONSCREEN) || ONSCREEN_WARP)
20130314 07:47:23< shadowm> Which always yields true because ONSCREEN_WARP is non the first enum member.
20130314 07:47:29< shadowm> *not
20130314 07:47:50< shadowm> Looks like I've got my fix for #18793.
20130314 07:48:47< shadowm> And here I was overengineering something with WML and Lua gaining access to a parameter that I guess isn't necessary after all.
20130314 08:01:06< shadowm> !log HEAD
20130314 08:01:07< shikadibot> shadowm: Revision 56493 (shadowmaster) on Thu Mar 14 07:00:08 2013:
20130314 08:01:07< shikadibot> shadowm: display: Fix broken conditionals in display::scroll_to_tyles()
20130314 08:01:07< shikadibot> shadowm:  
20130314 08:01:07< shikadibot> shadowm: This purportedly fixes bug #18793.
20130314 08:01:07< shikadibot> shadowm: (+21 discarded lines)
20130314 08:01:09< shikadibot> shadowm: Web interface URL: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth?view=rev&rev=56493
20130314 08:01:14< shadowm> I would like people to test this.
20130314 08:03:36< shadowm> Also, fixed irker's ML subscription. Gna.org decided to stop delivering to it because of the bounces during the VPS downtime.
20130314 08:03:47< shadowm> So hopefully we should be getting commit notifications here again.
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20130314 08:47:35< shadowm> !tag 1.11.1
20130314 08:47:36< shikadibot> shadowm: Tag 1.11.1, revision 55836 (ivanovic) on Sat Dec  8 12:03:38 2012:
20130314 08:47:39< shikadibot> shadowm: tagged 1.11.1, using r55835
20130314 08:47:42< shikadibot> shadowm: Web interface URL: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth?view=rev&rev=55836
20130314 08:51:42< shadowm> Ivanovic: I heard you like blockers: https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?20611
20130314 08:52:36< _Coffee> Ivanovic: sorry for posting that right next to a new release :P
20130314 08:53:17< shadowm> Nah, it's good.
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20130314 08:53:53< shadowm> The editor shouldn't keep breaking all the time, that's just weird and terrible.
20130314 08:54:35< _Coffee> it makes it hard now that there are all the new terrains to use
20130314 08:54:51< _Coffee> before, you could use the 1.10.5 editor to make the map
20130314 08:55:19< shadowm> I stick to 1.10 for developing my add-on for this and various other reasons.
20130314 08:55:59< _Coffee> what are the various other reasons if you don't mind me asking?
20130314 08:58:17< _Coffee> I suppose it's not yet late enough in the cycle to develop seriously for 1.11 a large addon properly
20130314 08:58:46< _Coffee> but if you delay it too much, it won't be ready for people to play when the next stable version comes out?
20130314 08:59:01< _Coffee> thee addon that is
20130314 09:03:17< shadowm> I'm already playtesting it on 1.11.1+svn.
20130314 09:03:34< shadowm> The fact that some people have managed to play it to the end on 1.11.1 also indicates that I must be doing something right.
20130314 09:04:10< _Coffee> oh I see
20130314 09:04:12< shadowm> I will obviously move to 1.11.x as my primary development platform once 1.11.x enters beta stage, just like the last time.
20130314 09:04:14< _Coffee> that makes sense
20130314 09:04:19< shadowm> It'll be a while before that happens, of course.
20130314 09:04:38< shadowm> No wait, actually the last time I developed on 1.9.x from the (re)start.
20130314 09:04:46< _Coffee> I've played your first in the series campaign on 1.10 and it is really quite good
20130314 09:04:50< shadowm> Which was somewhat counterproductive on the long run.
20130314 09:04:59< shadowm> No, IftU is crap.
20130314 09:05:05< shadowm> Pure unadulterated crap.
20130314 09:05:09< _Coffee> well ,I thought it was good
20130314 09:05:52< _Coffee> had a good level of difficulty
20130314 09:07:44< shadowm> That's usually indicatative of that people not playing it right (if there can even be such a thing).
20130314 09:08:03< shadowm> Playing it right results in the player having a preposterous amount of gold and high-level units near the end. Quite the cakewalk.
20130314 09:08:13< _Coffee> well, ok :P
20130314 09:08:18< _Coffee> I played it on hardest mode
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20130314 09:08:30< shadowm> Oh yeah, well, I never playtest my campaigns on Easy or Hard.
20130314 09:08:43< Espreon> Does anyone do that?
20130314 09:09:00< shadowm> I just make up some numbers according to my experience/design on Normal, and assign those to Easy and Hard.
20130314 09:09:29< shadowm> I have exactly one internal playtester and it'd be abusive from me to ask him to play on multiple difficulties.
20130314 09:09:33< shadowm> I'd need two more playtesters.
20130314 09:09:34< _Coffee> although my stuff is not as long or involved, I test on hardest mode first and the most
20130314 09:10:03< shadowm> The thing is that it's hard to keep slaves interested for long.
20130314 09:10:06< shadowm> Er.
20130314 09:10:11< shadowm> Playtesters.
20130314 09:10:15< shadowm> I mean playtesters.
20130314 09:10:20< _Coffee> :)
20130314 09:11:18< _Coffee> I have a brother who can test things with me
20130314 09:11:25< _Coffee> so that helps a bit
20130314 09:13:05< _Coffee> but it is hard to keep attention on repeating things
20130314 09:13:55< _Coffee> so, is there a feature/commit freeze now that we are close to a new release?
20130314 09:14:22< shadowm> It's not a beta release, so no.
20130314 09:14:37< shadowm> It'll be a while before that happens and you will hear noise from the Big Man everywhere.
20130314 09:14:59< shadowm> At this rate it'll probably not happen until 1.11.6 or so.
20130314 09:15:56< _Coffee> the Big Man, is he Sirp?
20130314 09:16:12< shadowm> No, Ivanovic is the release manager.
20130314 09:16:21< shadowm> Sirp hasn't been active as a developer since 2008 or so.
20130314 09:16:46< _Coffee> ok
20130314 09:18:02 * _Coffee needs to remember no Russian jokes
20130314 09:18:33< shadowm> He's German.
20130314 09:18:48< _Coffee> phew, that makes it easier
20130314 09:18:50< _Coffee> :P
20130314 09:27:09< esr> This project is, for some unknown, stiff with Germans.  Every ince in a while I poke fun at German Comma Disease.
20130314 09:29:32< esr> Their English is pretty good on the whole but they have a tendency to apply German comma-placement rules wgen writing it.
20130314 09:29:44< esr> Hilarity ensues.
20130314 09:30:38< _Coffee> Idon'twanttogotofarconsideringIamnewhere, but IthoughtthisishowatypicalGermansentencelooks/
20130314 09:30:55< esr> :-)
20130314 09:32:12< esr> That's academic German.  The guys here are less prone to excessivecompoundformation.
20130314 09:33:02< esr> I meant "for some unknown reason", duh.
20130314 09:37:01< _Coffee> Most words in English come from old german, latin, or french I think
20130314 09:38:13< _Coffee> I never learned any of these languages, but I wonder if the grammar is a sort of a blend of these
20130314 09:38:45< shadowm> It seems as though the defense animations' "i just got hit" sounds no longer play consistently.
20130314 09:39:23< _Coffee> hmm
20130314 09:39:35< shadowm> _Coffee: Try spawning two footpads in the test scenario, and switching one to the enemy side.
20130314 09:39:56< _Coffee> I put in a minor commit to optimize this recently, from the bug fix boucman and I found here a few days ago
20130314 09:40:04< shadowm> If they manage to simultaneously hit each other, one of them will not play their "i just got hit" sound.
20130314 09:40:16< esr> No, English grammar is basically Germanic but was been stripped to the running gears by creolization during contact with Old Norse and Norman French.
20130314 09:40:18< shadowm> At least at 1.75x animation speed.
20130314 09:40:43< shadowm> (Yeah, I do not use 1.0x because Jetrel & co made sure to make the game experience as unpleasant as it can possibly be for me with that setting.)
20130314 09:41:03< esr> shadowm: How?
20130314 09:41:30< shadowm> Long story, I'm busy playtesting so I won't get into that.
20130314 09:43:12< Espreon> 09:37 < _Coffee> Most words in English come from old german, latin, or french I think
20130314 09:43:19 * Espreon would really like to smack _Coffee 
20130314 09:43:27< Espreon> ... but he won't.
20130314 09:43:48< _Coffee> what have I done? :P
20130314 09:44:07< Espreon> "from old german," ... that.
20130314 09:44:27< _Coffee> I thought so
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20130314 09:48:31< shadowm> AAaaaaaaaagh.
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20130314 10:05:34-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.10.6 and 1.11.2 planned for March 16 | 170 bugs, 333 feature requests, 19 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20130314 10:06:10< _Coffee> shadowm: I've tested with footpads and now need to test with 10.5
20130314 10:06:16< _Coffee> seems fine to me :P
20130314 10:06:38< _Coffee> but I will test with different speed settings and all
20130314 10:07:45< shadowm> There might be some randomness involved, so make sure to test a few times.
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20130314 11:15:05< _Coffee> *sigh*
20130314 11:15:10< _Coffee> you are right shadowm
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20130314 11:15:23< _Coffee> it don't work as expected
20130314 11:17:03< _Coffee> this is particularly annoying as this type of thing was supposed to serve for another big optimization
20130314 11:17:24< _Coffee> really slimming down on the file sizes of the unit WML
20130314 11:19:02< _Coffee> but it should affect poison and slow sounds also
20130314 11:19:09< _Coffee> as they are done the same way
20130314 11:19:58< _Coffee> before any changes to syntax that is
20130314 11:37:19< _Coffee> problem is with the 'if' branching
20130314 11:37:26< shadowm> boucman_work: Why does move_unit_between() call display::scroll_to_tiles() with the force argument set to false?
20130314 11:38:33< boucman_work> what does the "force" argument do ?
20130314 11:39:09< shadowm> It species whether the scrolling should actually happen down the ensuing call tree.
20130314 11:39:13< shadowm> specifies
20130314 11:39:15< shadowm> > if(!force && (view_locked_ || !preferences::scroll_to_action())) return;
20130314 11:39:36< shadowm> This is in display::scroll_to_xy(), which is further down the call tree.
20130314 11:40:08< boucman_work> ok, IIRC the whole point of the scroll_to_action pref is to not scroll the map due to animation
20130314 11:40:18< boucman_work> so users that don't want to see animations don't get jumped back to it
20130314 11:40:31< boucman_work> force is for WML events that need to really show something
20130314 11:40:41< boucman_work> does that answer your question ?
20130314 11:41:08< shadowm> Okay, so this is a case of a feature conflict I didn't foresee.
20130314 11:41:36< shadowm> I used the force parameter as part of the implementation of the [lock_view]/[unlock_view] actions.
20130314 11:42:33< shadowm> So this poses a problem in the event that the scroll_to_action option _is_ enabled, [lock_view] is in effect, and I want to perform a [move_unit_fake] action.
20130314 11:43:13< shadowm> Do you think [move_unit_fake] should respect preferences::scroll_to_action() in the first place?
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20130314 11:44:19< boucman_work> it depends
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20130314 11:44:33< boucman_work> (i'm sure you love that answer :P )
20130314 11:45:04< boucman_work> if the fake unit moves as part of the normal game (a WML implemented ability) then yes, it should respect the scroll_to_action
20130314 11:45:26< boucman_work> but if it's part of a story arc event, like a king fleeing his castle, it should not
20130314 11:45:39< boucman_work> so it's probably a key you want to add to [move_unit_fake]
20130314 11:45:49< shadowm> I'm not sure what kind of WML-based ability would move a unit so far away from its original location, but okay.
20130314 11:46:07< shadowm> If I were to add an option to the MUF action, then the next problem would be: what should the default be?
20130314 11:47:49 * _Coffee away
20130314 11:47:55< _Coffee> oops
20130314 11:48:12< _Coffee> sorry, wrong command (going to watch important match on tv)
20130314 11:48:59< boucman_work> shadowm: multi-dimensional teleport could bring the unit to a totally different area using [tunnel]
20130314 11:49:44< boucman_work> and default to "whatever it used to do" and if not possible, probably default to force, since MUF is mainly for storyline
20130314 11:52:35< shadowm> It currently defaults to not forcing the scrolling when required.
20130314 11:53:19< shadowm> Anyway I'm not sure what teleport/[tunnel] has to do with [move_unit_fake]'s implementation.
20130314 11:57:20< shadowm> Meh, I'll make MUF (and MUsF) default to force then.
20130314 12:03:53< boucman_work> if you use MUF, IIUC it will use wesnoth code to pathfind, so it might go through a tunnel
20130314 12:03:55< boucman_work> no ?
20130314 12:05:10< shadowm> Eh.
20130314 12:05:25< shadowm> I guess.
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20130314 12:09:49< shadowm> I'm now unsure whether this approach is the most optimal for UMC coders, or I should just rethink the internal display scrolling semantics.
20130314 12:10:46< shadowm> i.e. making the force parameter an enum type (FORCE_NEVER, FORCE_WHEN_VIEWPORT_IS_LOCKED, FORCE_ALWAYS).
20130314 12:11:12< shadowm> I need to think about this further later.
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20130314 14:57:39< mattsc> Hi Crab_ 
20130314 14:57:45< Crab_> hi
20130314 14:58:14< mattsc> Brief question: there are a number of deprecated and removed AI parameters: https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?20611
20130314 14:58:27-!- skyfaller [~skyfaller@wikipedia/Skyfaller] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20130314 14:58:48< mattsc> but lots of mainline campaigns still use those (e.g. attack_depth).  Is there a plan to reintroduce any of those later?
20130314 14:58:49< Crab_> mattsc: the bug seems to be non-ai-related
20130314 14:59:07< mattsc> Crab_: oops!
20130314 14:59:24< mattsc> Wrong link.  Sorry.  Try this one: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/AiWML#Deprecated_AI_Targeting_Aspects
20130314 15:00:13< Crab_> mattsc: no, the deprecated should be, in theory, removed. there should be little-to-no feature loss
20130314 15:00:50< mattsc> How about attack_depth and the other two in that section?
20130314 15:01:15< Crab_> other two are recruitment related. the plan was to rewrite the recruitment last gsoc, which failed.
20130314 15:01:36< mattsc> I'm asking because people post [ai] tags all the time containing those, presumably because they copy example from mainline campaigns.
20130314 15:01:52< Crab_> not so sure about attach depth, atm
20130314 15:02:18< mattsc> It appears in the code, but has a hard-coded value of 5.
20130314 15:02:24< Crab_> in practice, the deprecated stuff would still work - there's just an extra conversion step at config load time.
20130314 15:02:59< Crab_> so, by coding using [goal] you get what you write, if you use [target] or [protect_...], you get something derived from what you write.
20130314 15:03:10< Crab_> that's why [goal] is better.
20130314 15:03:21< mattsc> Yeah, we should probably add a deprecation message and then remove it some (long) time after that
20130314 15:03:25< mattsc> ok
20130314 15:03:32< Crab_> yes, like this
20130314 15:04:17< mattsc> Ok, I can look into doing that at some time.
20130314 15:05:03< mattsc> As for the removed parameters appearing in mainline campaigns, do we deleted those occurrences or leave them?
20130314 15:05:20< mattsc> ... delete
20130314 15:05:39< zookeeper> if they don't do anything anymore, then delete
20130314 15:05:49< zookeeper> however
20130314 15:06:09< mattsc> zookeeper: they don't do anything at the moment, but I don't know if there are plans to add functionality for them later.
20130314 15:06:09< Crab_> mattsc: http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth/trunk/src/ai/configuration.cpp is the place which does the config upgrades, it already has some debug messages
20130314 15:06:27< Crab_> mattsc: they might be somewhat useful if recruitment is ever rewritten
20130314 15:06:27< zookeeper> ...since they might indicate some intentions the scenario designer had regarding AI behaviour, i'd say they should only be deleted when rewriting the AI params for that scenario
20130314 15:06:53< Crab_> mattsc: so I'd fully agree with what zookeeper just wrote :)
20130314 15:06:53< mattsc> Crab_: thanks
20130314 15:07:28< zookeeper> now we just need someone to play through all campaigns and meticulously customize the AI for each scenario :p
20130314 15:08:26< mattsc> zookeeper: right.  And playtest each of them 3 times, as the obvious intention is always to make the difficulty levels behave differently.  :)
20130314 15:08:33< zookeeper> yep
20130314 15:09:04< mattsc> Crab_, zookeeper: thanks.
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20130314 16:31:06< trewe> mattsc: when I have installed your add-on 'AI-Demos' the tipps of the day at the main screen do not appear translated anymore
20130314 16:32:19< mattsc> trewe: Uh, I have no idea how AI-Demos would have any effect on that.
20130314 16:32:40< mattsc> Did you try uninstalling it and see if they are translated again?
20130314 16:33:11< trewe> me neither. Yes I moved it outside and they appear translated again
20130314 16:33:43< trewe> affects any language
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20130314 16:35:08< trewe> mmh textdomain is misspelled
20130314 16:35:08< mattsc> In which version of BfW do you see this?
20130314 16:35:18< trewe> 1.11.1+svn
20130314 16:36:58< mattsc> in _main.cfg?
20130314 16:39:07< mattsc> I don't see a spelling error, but I am using 'wesnoth' as textdomain and assign a local directory to it.  So maybe that overrides the default translation?
20130314 16:40:28< mattsc> I don't really know very well how translations and textdomains work (whether they are cumulative or overwrite each other)
20130314 16:42:28< trewe> I changed the textdomain to wesnoth-AI-demos and now it works fine (BTW this one is wescamp compatible)
20130314 16:42:57< mattsc> trewe: Thanks!  I'm amazed that nobody has noticed that before ...
20130314 16:43:16< trewe> you used textdomain=wesnoth that '=' should dissapear
20130314 16:43:31< trewe> replaced by a space
20130314 16:43:38< mattsc> Oh ... duh
20130314 16:44:22< mattsc> I'll change that in the add-on.  Thanks!
20130314 16:47:36< trewe> if you want to use textdomain wesnoth delete the whole [textdomain] block
20130314 16:48:36< trewe> otherwise the engine looks for translations for the core game in your add.on... which obviously does not exist
20130314 16:49:13< mattsc> Yep.  Sorry for that.  (As I said, I am surprised that nobody has noticed that before.)
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20130314 19:46:04< mordante> servus
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20130314 21:01:10< zookeeper> aww, nested #defines don't work.
20130314 21:01:24< zookeeper> the first time i wanted to use them, i think
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20130314 21:23:50< mordante> esr, Ivanovic I'm working on adding the Git ID to Wesnoth, expect to commit it tomorrow
20130314 21:24:14< esr> mordante: Thanks.
20130314 21:24:25< esr> mordante: My end is ready.
20130314 21:25:02< AI0867> what else needs to be done?
20130314 21:25:13< AI0867> also, the import script has been sitting on baldras for a while
20130314 21:25:20< mordante> esr, you're welcome
20130314 21:25:31< mordante> esr, and nice job by you as well
20130314 21:26:04< esr> AI0867: I moved the work to my machine - the large file copies over the network got too painful.
20130314 21:26:21< AI0867> yeah, I noticed, you didn't appear in last -40
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20130314 21:28:34< esr> AI0867: I had to buy a larrger drive and more memory.  The repo is *huge*.
20130314 21:35:20< mordante> I'm off, night
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20130314 21:37:17< AI0867> but is there anything else that needs to be done before "blue day"?
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--- Log closed Fri Mar 15 00:00:00 2013