--- Log opened Tue Mar 26 00:00:12 2013
--- Day changed Tue Mar 26 2013
20130326 00:00:12< shadowm> I also have a bunch of git-svn trees relying on the repository URIs.
20130326 00:00:21< shadowm> *the old
20130326 00:00:26< elias> SF automatically upgraded all my SF projects over the course of a few weeks, without asking me
20130326 00:00:50< shadowm> Well, it hasn't done that for me.
20130326 00:00:52< elias> so i guess eventually the upgrade isn't optinoal anymore
20130326 00:00:55< Espreon> It only automatically upgrades "inactive" projects.
20130326 00:00:59< shadowm> It's only pestered me about it over the course of months.
20130326 00:01:04< Espreon> ... from what I've read.
20130326 00:01:04< elias> ah, ok, that may be the case for mine
20130326 00:01:50< shadowm> Glad to know they don't consider wesnoth-tc inactive.
20130326 00:01:58< shadowm> That was a joke right there.
20130326 00:02:59< Espreon> Yeah, it was probably "active enough".
20130326 00:03:00< Espreon> LOL
20130326 00:03:01< shadowm> esr: Do you have an experience with the upgrade process for SVN-based projects?
20130326 00:04:55< shadowm> Espreon, elias: Anyway, IIRC there is a deadline for upgrading any projects that haven't done the opt-in ugprade yet.
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20130326 00:07:12< elias> if wesnoth isn't upgraded yet, might be a good idea to do it before moving over the git repository
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20130326 00:14:45< shadowm> The email we got (wesnoth-umc-dev) back in October (or December? stupid date formats) had this:
20130326 00:15:02< shadowm> "Our goal is to have everybody off of the old platform in the first quarter of next year, so that we can retire that code and focus our attention on the new platform. It would, of course, be preferable if you migrate your own project in your own time."
20130326 00:16:04< shadowm> And I guess Q1 is about to tend.
20130326 00:16:23< shadowm> end.
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20130326 00:28:35< shadowm> *any experience
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20130326 01:16:31< Alarantalara> Apparently some interesting things have happened recently. When I started a game, all the images in the story screens were interestingly recoloured.
20130326 01:18:26< Alarantalara> http://imagebin.org/251613
20130326 01:20:18< lipkab> Alarantalara, Hmm. Is this the first time you run trunk in the last few weeks?
20130326 01:21:56< Alarantalara> In about 2 months
20130326 01:22:11< Alarantalara> That
20130326 01:22:24< Alarantalara> is supposed to be the 1.11.2 OS X build
20130326 01:23:01< lipkab> Uh-oh. Probably I broke something.
20130326 01:23:10< lipkab> Something really special...
20130326 01:23:32< lipkab> ...since no one else complained about this yet.
20130326 01:23:38< shadowm> Alarantalara: Cold you try reverting a recent wesnoth-optipng pass just in case?
20130326 01:23:49< shadowm> No, don't commit to SVN, revert it locally.
20130326 01:23:53< Alarantalara> The story image you see there is perfectly fine on the main screen
20130326 01:24:01< shadowm> Ah, okay then.
20130326 01:27:03< lipkab> Alarantalara, will try to look into it... but it's already late for 1.11.2, I guess...
20130326 01:27:27< Alarantalara> We can add it to the known issues :)
20130326 01:27:49< shadowm> lipkab: It's always possible to publish a patch post-release.
20130326 01:28:21< shadowm> Also, since the issue appears to be Mac OS X-specific (zookeeper would have complained already if it affected Windows), Alarantalara can publish a patched build.
20130326 01:28:56< shadowm> Alarantalara: Is this the PPC or the Intel build?
20130326 01:29:09< shadowm> (Do you even make PPC builds anymore?)
20130326 01:29:17< Alarantalara> That would be intel, since I don't have a convenient PPC to test on
20130326 01:29:34< lipkab> shadowm, Yeah, but since I don't have access to any OSX machines it might take some back and forth to fix it which could stall the announcement.
20130326 01:29:52< lipkab> Which I'm not sure is desired.
20130326 01:30:17< shadowm> lipkab: I am sure Ivanovic doesn't mind. ;)
20130326 01:30:59< lipkab> Well, I personally don't care when it is released.
20130326 01:31:40< Alarantalara> I can upload it as is and add an extra patch later. No non-story images are affected so it's not as though the game is suddenly unplayable. (And the battle markers on the map are unaffected)
20130326 01:33:18< shadowm> I think you should really ask Ivanovic about whether to just go without the Mac OS X build for now or wait for the issue to be solved.
20130326 01:33:35< shadowm> That kind of bugs shouldn't really occur in a release.
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20130326 01:34:15< lipkab> I'm also the one responsible for 1.10.6 not building on Pandora... well, this is embarrassing.
20130326 01:35:30< shadowm> It happens to the best of us.
20130326 01:36:10< shadowm> I mean, look, mordante was responsible for the big delay with tagging 1.11.2.
20130326 01:37:52< AI0867> esr: I'm ai0867 @ SF
20130326 01:42:29< lipkab> Alarantalara, Could you please send a bug report and assign it to me?
20130326 01:43:01< Alarantalara> If I can't find a good solution in the next 5-10 minutes, sure
20130326 01:43:40< Alarantalara> The last time something like this happened, I ended up patching SDL, so I have some idea of how things work
20130326 01:43:58< lipkab> Oh.
20130326 01:44:02< lipkab> Okay.
20130326 01:46:51< Alarantalara> Half fixed
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20130326 01:58:15< Alarantalara> lipkab: I'm feeling too lazy to set up git right now, so I assigned the patch to you.
20130326 02:10:02< shadowm> There is no public git repository yet.
20130326 02:20:16< Alarantalara> Well, then it shall have to wait, since mordante has a lock on the affected file in svn.
20130326 02:22:08< shadowm> Do you read the devs ML?
20130326 02:23:26< shadowm> https://mail.gna.org/public/wesnoth-dev/2013-03/msg00033.html
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20130326 02:23:39< shadowm> "1) Please be patient and do try to not commit anything into svn at gna.org"
20130326 02:24:15< Alarantalara> I do. I must have missed that message
20130326 02:24:50< Alarantalara> or not read to the end
20130326 02:25:34< shadowm> Well, Ivanovic's quirky syntax tends to cause me to skip to the end of every one of his messages, so...
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20130326 02:32:08< ancestral> It appears Wesnoth’s phpBB software doesn’t link URLs with umlauts in them
20130326 02:32:24< ancestral> *wesnoth.org I mean
20130326 02:33:04< Espreon> What about diæreses? ;)
20130326 02:33:29< ancestral> Yes, fail
20130326 02:33:45< Espreon> It seems "trema" is the most neutral.
20130326 02:34:13< shadowm> phpBB is not ours.
20130326 02:35:02< ancestral> It is customized ever-so-slightly
20130326 02:35:11< shadowm> You are not being specific enough.
20130326 02:35:22< shadowm> The [url] bbcode tag implementation is the one from upstream.
20130326 02:36:10< _8680_> I just tested; [wiki] works.
20130326 02:36:12< shadowm> The post parser code implementation is also the one from upstream, since you are apparently complaining about a post with auto-parsed URLs.
20130326 02:36:15< ancestral> http://tracker.phpbb.com/browse/PHPBB3-3981
20130326 02:36:17< shadowm> *psot URL parser
20130326 02:36:21< shadowm> *post URL parser
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20130326 04:05:35-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: git conversion started, please keep svn commits to a minimum! | 1.11.2 released, announcing "soon" | 168 bugs, 332 feature requests, 20 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20130326 04:12:34< mattsc> Hi esr : I'm mattsc000 on sourceforge  (mattsc was taken ...), could you add me too?
20130326 04:13:43< esr> mattsc: Matthias Schoeck?
20130326 04:13:52< mattsc> esr: yes
20130326 04:13:57< esr> Done.
20130326 04:14:01< mattsc> Thanks!
20130326 04:15:03< esr> Repo compression is now 39% complete.
20130326 04:15:56< shadowm> esr: Will you answer my question or not?
20130326 04:16:19< esr> shadowm: Sorry, which question?  
20130326 04:16:31< shadowm> 20:02:59 <shadowm> esr: Do you have an experience with the upgrade process for SVN-based projects?
20130326 04:16:36< shadowm> *any
20130326 04:16:40< esr> Oh.
20130326 04:16:56< shadowm> 21:37:51 <AI0867> esr: I'm ai0867 @ SF
20130326 04:16:59< shadowm> That too.
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20130326 04:17:11< esr> Yes, I do.  It's pretty painless. I did it with giflib.
20130326 04:17:18< shadowm> (You really need to either use your IRC client correctly or use a better IRC client.)
20130326 04:17:34< shadowm> esr: For a large repository with many committerS? I'm talking of wesnoth-umc-dev here.
20130326 04:17:47< shadowm> How long could the upgrade take?
20130326 04:17:59< esr> ai0867: You're in.
20130326 04:18:02< shadowm> And is there any way to set the original repository to read-only mode?
20130326 04:18:16< shadowm> I tried issuing locks, but guess what, SVN sucks ass.
20130326 04:18:29< esr> shadowm: I don't know of a way to do that.  
20130326 04:18:31< shadowm> Especially when both server-side and client-side decide to be antagonistic.
20130326 04:19:20< shadowm> Like this: http://pastebin.com/HK3wGVnW
20130326 04:19:38< shadowm> (And all the relocation messages are wrong.)
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20130326 04:20:10< shadowm> (It's probably just trying to tell me that locks are disabled on the server side.)
20130326 04:20:18< shadowm> esr: Well, that's unfortunate.
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20130326 04:20:38< shadowm> I hoped you had more experience with this kind of thing since you like to boast about it all the time.
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20130326 04:22:03< esr> I'nm noto longer even cerain what "kind of thing" you mean.  If you mean SF project upgrades, I've only seen twop of those. If you mean SVN to git conversions, I've done at least a dozen.
20130326 04:22:42< shadowm> The kind of thing that involves software forges in general.
20130326 04:24:35< shadowm> Especially considering that you seem to like SF.net a lot for some reason.
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20130326 08:18:46< shadowm> Alarantalra: So is the Mac OS X build you uploaded fixed?
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20130326 08:41:49< shadowm> Alarantalara
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20130326 10:01:21-!- Topic for #wesnoth-dev: git conversion started, please keep svn commits to a minimum! | 1.11.2 released, announcing "soon" | 168 bugs, 332 feature requests, 20 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20130326 10:01:21-!- Topic set by wesbot [~wesbot@asteria.debian.or.at] [Tue Mar 26 04:05:35 2013]
20130326 10:01:21[Users #wesnoth-dev]
20130326 10:01:21[ _Coffee     ] [ Crendgrim      ] [ fendrin   ] [ lipkab     ] [ shadowm      ] [ Upth          ] 
20130326 10:01:21[ AI0867      ] [ crimson_penguin] [ Gallaecio_] [ lobby_     ] [ shikadibot   ] [ Upthorn       ] 
20130326 10:01:21[ Anakonda    ] [ ejls           ] [ happygrue ] [ loonycyborg] [ Sirp         ] [ vultraz       ] 
20130326 10:01:21[ apoi        ] [ ejls_          ] [ Ingmar    ] [ melinath   ] [ Smar         ] [ vultraz_laptop] 
20130326 10:01:21[ balrog      ] [ elias          ] [ isaac     ] [ Nephro     ] [ Soliton      ] [ wesbot        ] 
20130326 10:01:21[ bderooms    ] [ enchilado      ] [ Ivanovic  ] [ noy        ] [ Soundlust    ] [ witness       ] 
20130326 10:01:21[ Blueblaze   ] [ Espreon        ] [ iwaim     ] [ rei4dan    ] [ thunderstruck] [ yann          ] 
20130326 10:01:21[ boucman_work] [ ettin          ] [ janebot   ] [ Rhonda     ] [ timotei      ] [ zookeeper     ] 
20130326 10:01:21[ cjhopman    ] [ exciton_       ] [ knotwork_ ] [ Samual     ] [ ToBeFree     ] [ {V}           ] 
20130326 10:01:21-!- Irssi: #wesnoth-dev: Total of 54 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 54 normal]
20130326 10:01:31-!- Channel #wesnoth-dev created Tue Jan 27 06:28:41 2009
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20130326 11:34:20< AI0867> mordante: this might interest you: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=38566
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20130326 11:35:46< esr> *** ANNOUNCEMENT: REPOSITORY COMPRESSION IS COMPLETE ***
20130326 11:35:56< shadowm> My ears.
20130326 11:35:59< esr> Uploading it to SourceForge comes next.
20130326 11:36:12< esr> shadowm: Sorry. :-)
20130326 11:36:42< esr> Repo is 2539044 blocks.
20130326 11:37:34< shadowm> What does that even mean, what's the block size, etc.
20130326 11:37:49< AI0867> 1 KiB blocks?
20130326 11:38:23< AI0867> the latest git fast-import stream found on baldras can be brought down to 1.5 GiB
20130326 11:38:36< shadowm> Don't filesystems usually use 512 KiB blocks?
20130326 11:39:20< shadowm> I mean 512 bytes.
20130326 11:39:31< shadowm> I am seeing that mke2fs here uses 4 KiB by default?
20130326 11:40:47< AI0867> du defaults to 1024 byte units
20130326 11:41:13< AI0867> unless POSIXLY_CORRECT is set, then it uses 512
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20130326 11:43:01< shadowm> shadowm@reicore:~$ sudo dumpe2fs /dev/sda6
20130326 11:43:02< shadowm> Last mounted on:          /home
20130326 11:43:08< shadowm> Block size:               4096
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20130326 11:50:35< esr> AI0867: I used yor repack invocation.
20130326 11:50:57< Nephro> esr: are developer privileges going to be transferred to the new repositories or one should make explicit requests for such?
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20130326 11:51:28< AI0867> is it possible that repack ran out of memory and did something suboptimal? I've seen that happen once
20130326 11:51:41< esr> Nephro: You must request it, there's no way yo do it automatically.
20130326 11:52:31< Nephro> esr: what is the process for a request? (forums, irc msg, anything else)?
20130326 11:52:42< esr> AI0867: That's possible.  If so we may be screwed as the memory on my movo is maxed out (I bought more for this conversion.)
20130326 11:53:10< esr> Nephro: Tell me your SourceForge ID, I'll set you up.
20130326 11:53:36< Nephro> esr: I don't thin I have a sourceforge id at all
20130326 11:54:07< AI0867> esr: how much memory does your system have?
20130326 11:54:22< esr> AI0867: I guess I can try a repack on SF once I get the repo over there.
20130326 11:54:30< AI0867> this laptop can theoretically go up to 4x8GiB
20130326 11:54:36< Nephro> I will message you when I acquire one
20130326 11:54:39< esr> AI0867: Jusr 4GiB, it's a bit old.
20130326 11:54:58< AI0867> yeah, baldras has 32 GiB at its disposal
20130326 11:55:12< AI0867> and it ran out of memory when I used a larger window than the one in the script
20130326 11:56:35< shadowm> If SF.net has any semblance of sanity, they'd probably not provide a lot of system resources for an optimal repack there.
20130326 11:56:57< AI0867> esr: how fast can you push 2.5 GiB to baldras.wesnoth.org?
20130326 11:57:33< esr> Dunno.  Guess I'll find out,
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20130326 12:05:25< esr> Ivanovic: I'm fixing references to Subversion for a changeover vommit.  Any loss id I just remove attic/wesnoth-pngcrush?
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20130326 12:06:31< esr> Er, of course there isn't.  We can get it out of the git history if we need it. Duh.
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20130326 12:21:49< esr> This is a ukase from the tsar of conversion: the repo version will hence be distinguished not by the suffix "+svn" but just "+".  That way we don't have yet another silly set of changes to make if we ever change VCSes again.
20130326 12:23:13< shadowm> esr: Here's an idea: +dev
20130326 12:23:31< shadowm> Using just + will make a certain piece of code behave funny IIRC.
20130326 12:24:26< esr> shadowm: OK, that can work.
20130326 12:24:34< shadowm> I normally use -dev for my own projects, but historically we have X.Y.0-svn and X.Y.0+svn versions.
20130326 12:25:08< shadowm> Both are obviously relative to X.Y.0.
20130326 12:27:49-!- Guest44736 [~eli@66-189-34-122.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130326 12:27:54< esr> OK, +dev it is.
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20130326 12:54:15< esr> FYI, everybody, I'm still fixing up references to "svn" and "SVN" in the repo.
20130326 12:54:58< shadowm> Waste of time.
20130326 12:55:15< shadowm> I'd have just marked every SVN commit with [SVN] on the first line.
20130326 12:55:24< shadowm> Also included the revision number somewhere in it.
20130326 12:55:33< shadowm> Alternatively, would have done that on the last line.
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20130326 12:59:39< shadowm> Have fun with your misdirected perfectionism. Later.
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20130326 13:26:24< shadowm> lipkab: Is this really complete? https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?20435#comment1
20130326 13:26:51< shadowm> I was about to close it, but although it is marked Fixed, that comment makes it sound like it should actually be In Progress?
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20130326 13:28:48< Alarantalara> Ivanovic: The OS X package for 1.11.2 is uploaded
20130326 13:29:38< fendrin> shadowm: I did another run on the editor's gui. There are some questions left that I would like to ask you. 1) Would you like to see the "group" menu button greyed out when there is no palette for the current tool or should it be better hidden?
20130326 13:31:23< shadowm> What things can other tools display aside from palettes?
20130326 13:31:36-!- Alarantalara [~Adium@CPEc0c1c09e8055-CM00252eac6d62.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
20130326 13:31:40< fendrin> nothing
20130326 13:31:47< fendrin> none
20130326 13:32:10< shadowm> I suppose it would be less confusing in this case to just hide it then.
20130326 13:32:19< fendrin> Fine.
20130326 13:32:26< fendrin> The second question is more complicated.
20130326 13:32:38< fendrin> I want to get rid of the old terrain group buttons.
20130326 13:33:08< fendrin> Instead the terrain group is represented by one of its prominent terrains.
20130326 13:33:24< fendrin> Shallow Water for the whole water group for example.
20130326 13:33:26< shadowm> Bad idea.
20130326 13:34:25< fendrin> ?
20130326 13:34:39< shadowm> Firstly, you'd be sending some pretty menu icons to waste. Secondly, hexes are much larger than those menu icons, and scaling them down tends to result in a significant loss of detail which could make some icons nearly undistinguishable.
20130326 13:34:46< shadowm> I suspect one such case would be forest vs. flat.
20130326 13:35:18< fendrin> Well, I like to display them in the terrain palette itself.
20130326 13:35:56< fendrin> The groups button would be a checkbox one controlling if the palette shows the groups or one group.
20130326 13:36:20< shadowm> Huh?
20130326 13:36:55< shadowm> That'd be incredibly weird and inconsistent with every other analogue UI concept we use.
20130326 13:37:35< fendrin> Well, that is true for the whole palette. It isn't very Wesnothish.
20130326 13:37:57< shadowm> Let's not make it worse.
20130326 13:39:37< shadowm> There's also the thing that what you are suggesting would involve even more clicks for switching palettes.
20130326 13:39:49< shadowm> To be more specific, three clicks instead of two.
20130326 13:39:51< fendrin> No, the number of clicks stays the same.
20130326 13:39:56< shadowm> Or possibly four if you add double-click support.
20130326 13:40:39< shadowm> I don't see how the number of clicks can stay the same if you are suggesting to add a toggle between displaying the terrain palette's terrains or a list of palettes.
20130326 13:40:41< fendrin> You do not need to uncheck the box if you want to select a group.
20130326 13:40:58< fendrin> That is done automatically.
20130326 13:41:21< fendrin> You just need to uncheck it if you do not want to switch the current group.
20130326 13:41:40< shadowm> Ugh.
20130326 13:41:50< shadowm> This is the kind of thing for which I'd rather see a proof of concept.
20130326 13:42:14< fendrin> I have a working prototype. It is rather ugly with the normal image for checkbox buttons.
20130326 13:42:59< fendrin> But with a normal button used as a checkbox one it seems to fit.
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20130326 13:55:31< shadowm> Ivanovic: Just closed all bugs fixed/invalidated/whatever by 1.10.6 and 1.11.2.
20130326 13:55:50< shadowm> Except for a few specific cases (including a reminder for myself).
20130326 13:58:37< esr> Ugh.  The PHP website-generation stuff is going to be a bit ugly to fix after the move.
20130326 13:58:37< esr> I'm testing the normal build process with SVN stuff ripped out now.
20130326 14:05:05< shadowm> fendrin: The 1.11.1 release announcement had this: "There is still a bug with hotkeys if a user deletes "ctrl+space" and assigns it again. But reassigning works fine. This is only true for the "ctrl+space" combination, space is a special key and needs extra handling. This issue will hopefully be handled soon."
20130326 14:05:10< shadowm> I assume that's fixed in 1.11.2?
20130326 14:05:43< fendrin> no
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20130326 14:09:10< shadowm> ...
20130326 14:09:10< shadowm> Color me unimpressed.
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20130326 14:09:22< shadowm> fendrin: Is it only for Ctrl+space, or also Alt+space, etc.?
20130326 14:09:45< shadowm> Ivanovic: I am writing half of the release announcement for your convenience.
20130326 14:09:58< shadowm> THe other half (summarizing the changelog) will be your task.
20130326 14:10:38< shadowm> Also, I refuse to disallow 1.11.1 clients on the MP server until the announcement is up.
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20130326 14:12:25< fendrin> shadowm: iirc it is really only ctrl+space.
20130326 14:14:57-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130326 14:15:22< fendrin> shadowm: yes, only this special combination.
20130326 14:15:28< shadowm> Okay.
20130326 14:16:39< esr> Buiild was successful.  Continuing...
20130326 14:20:50< shadowm> Is any of you abusing wesnoth.org right now?
20130326 14:20:50< shadowm> Eeek. > ssh: connect to host wesnoth.org port 22: No route to host
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20130326 14:31:24< shadowm> Ivanovic: Also, edited the Downloads page. As a side-effect, the 1.11.x file sizes listed now match SF.net's.
20130326 14:31:28< shadowm> No idea where you people got your previous file sizes from.
20130326 14:32:45< vultraz> How soon can we expect a repo url?
20130326 14:32:55< shadowm> Ask esr.
20130326 14:33:08< shadowm> Or better yet, don't ask esr.
20130326 14:33:16< esr> vultraz: Working on it.
20130326 14:33:18< shadowm> I will probably download it into wesnoth.org and proivde a private download.
20130326 14:33:47< shadowm> Unless esr had a secret plan for us people who cannot clone more than 100 MiB in one go.
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20130326 14:37:46< shadowm> esr: Did you have a secret plan for us people who cannot clone more than 100 MiB in one go?
20130326 14:37:46< vultraz> I had to clone a 2.5 gb repo before..it was hell
20130326 14:37:46< esr> Until this very moment I had no idea there were such people.
20130326 14:37:46 * vultraz raises hand
20130326 14:37:46< shadowm> esr: For the love of God.
20130326 14:37:46< shadowm> I have been very noisy about it.
20130326 14:37:46< shadowm> I am one of those people.
20130326 14:37:46< vultraz> esr: and so am I
20130326 14:37:46< shadowm> But okay, I will do my own thing as usual.
20130326 14:37:46< shadowm> Abusing my admin powers and stuff.
20130326 14:37:46< shadowm> vultraz: The difference being that things won't fall apart if you are unable to commit for a couple of weeks.
20130326 14:37:46< esr> "cannot clone more than 100 MiB in one go" - what causes this?
20130326 14:37:46< shadowm> Whereas I seem to be the one caring about things I shouldn't care about for some reason? Like wmllint.
20130326 14:37:46< shadowm> esr: 3.5G mobile broadband in a rural area in a third-world country.
20130326 14:37:46< shadowm> In my case.
20130326 14:37:46< shadowm> No, I am not about to conjure money out of thin air to move to your place where you have optic fiber and crap.
20130326 14:37:46< esr> I will try AI0867's method to get it down to 1.5GB.
20130326 14:37:46< shadowm> I don't think I'd even survive an airplane trip.
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20130326 14:37:59< shadowm> Great, just when I want to edit the front page wesnoth.org kicks the bucket.
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20130326 14:43:54-!- Topic for #wesnoth-dev: git conversion started, please keep svn commits to a minimum! | 1.11.2 released, announcing "soon" | 168 bugs, 332 feature requests, 20 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20130326 14:43:54-!- Topic set by wesbot [~wesbot@asteria.debian.or.at] [Tue Mar 26 04:05:35 2013]
20130326 14:43:54[Users #wesnoth-dev]
20130326 14:43:54[ _Coffee     ] [ Crendgrim      ] [ Gallaecio_] [ loonybot   ] [ Samual       ] [ trewe         ] 
20130326 14:43:54[ AI0867      ] [ crimson_penguin] [ Guest44736] [ loonycyborg] [ shadowm      ] [ Upth          ] 
20130326 14:43:54[ Anakonda    ] [ ejls_          ] [ happygrue ] [ LordNasty  ] [ shikadibot   ] [ Upthorn       ] 
20130326 14:43:54[ apoi        ] [ elias          ] [ Ingmar    ] [ mattsc     ] [ Sirp         ] [ vultraz       ] 
20130326 14:43:54[ balrog      ] [ enchilado      ] [ isaac     ] [ melinath   ] [ Smar         ] [ vultraz_laptop] 
20130326 14:43:54[ bderooms    ] [ Espreon        ] [ Ivanovic  ] [ mjs-de     ] [ Soundlust    ] [ wesbot        ] 
20130326 14:43:54[ boucman_work] [ esr            ] [ iwaim     ] [ nephro     ] [ stikonas     ] [ witness       ] 
20130326 14:43:54[ bumbadadabum] [ ettin          ] [ janebot_  ] [ Octalot    ] [ thunderstruck] [ yann          ] 
20130326 14:43:54[ cjhopman    ] [ exciton_       ] [ knotwork_ ] [ rei4dan    ] [ timotei      ] [ zookeeper     ] 
20130326 14:43:54[ Crab_       ] [ fendrin        ] [ lobby     ] [ Rhonda     ] [ ToBeFree     ] [ {V}           ] 
20130326 14:43:54-!- Irssi: #wesnoth-dev: Total of 60 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 60 normal]
20130326 14:43:59< shadowm> Oh wait, it's back.
20130326 14:44:02-!- Channel #wesnoth-dev created Tue Jan 27 06:28:41 2009
20130326 14:44:54< vultraz> esr: In my case, it's the 28 - 32 KB/s connection that can be frequently inturrupted
20130326 14:44:54< AI0867> ah, here it is: 100 Mbit/s-bandwidth if 10.000 GB is exceeded 6,90 € per TB
20130326 14:44:54< vultraz> sometimes, even someone using the phone will knock it off
20130326 14:45:02< AI0867> *There are no charges for overage. We will permanently restrict the connection speed to 10 Mbit/s if more than 10.000 GB/month are used (the basis for calculation is for outgoing traffic only. Incoming and internal traffic is not calculated). 100 Mbit/s speed can be optionally restored by committing to pay 6,90 € (incl. VAT) per additional TB used.
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20130326 14:48:35< shadowm> Okay, good, wesnoth.org is back but the sshd doesn't want to talk to me.
20130326 14:48:48< shadowm> Or the httpd, for that matter.
20130326 14:52:37< shadowm> Meh, it's a network issue at the remote. It's hopeless.
20130326 14:52:56< shadowm> I can't even reach olm.net.
20130326 14:53:17< AI0867> AGAIN?
20130326 14:53:23< AI0867> they just had this issue last month
20130326 14:53:51< shadowm> Maybe they are being DDoSed?
20130326 14:54:13< shadowm> Who knows, really, since they never figured out that having an off-site status page could be useful.
20130326 14:55:19< AI0867> well, they have a twitter account that hasn't been updated since 2010
20130326 14:55:31< AI0867> and a facebook page where someone else is complaining about the same thing
20130326 14:57:54< shadowm> Woo, back.
20130326 15:01:55-!- mattsc [~mattsc@207.230.251.234] has quit [Quit: I'm asleep]
20130326 15:19:14< shadowm> Ivanovic: So I went and did the changelog part of the 1.11.2 announcement for you too.
20130326 15:19:34-!- mattsc [~mattsc@fw.hia.nrc.ca] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130326 15:19:42< shadowm> _Coffee: In the future, consider using RELEASE_NOTES so I don't have to make up promotional blurbs for you.
20130326 15:20:08< shadowm> _Coffee: See the "new animationwml syntax" block here and suggest amendments in a reply if necessary: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=38567&p=550340#p550340
20130326 15:21:15 * vultraz can't read it
20130326 15:21:39< shadowm> vultraz: You are not supposed to.
20130326 15:21:43< shadowm> Stop stating the obvious.
20130326 15:21:47< vultraz> :(
20130326 15:22:50-!- lipkab [~lipk@host-91-147-212-174.biatv.hu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130326 15:25:56< shadowm> Ivanovic: Incidentally, I don't see the point in mentioning files.w.o in release announcements.
20130326 15:26:22< shadowm> SF.net is very large and files released there are mirrored on multiple servers on different locations around the world.
20130326 15:26:48< shadowm> I think mention files.wesnoth.org is just redundant and an invitation for abuse.
20130326 15:26:52< shadowm> *mentioning
20130326 15:27:08< shadowm> Not to mention that I am too lazy to make the relevant paragraph's phrasing not suck.
20130326 15:27:49< lipkab> shadowm: I made another commit after the one mentioned there, apparently without linking to the FR.
20130326 15:28:09< lipkab> So yes, "Fixed" is correct, just a comment is missing.
20130326 15:28:38< shadowm> ?
20130326 15:28:47 * shadowm rewinds his log.
20130326 15:28:56< shadowm> #20345, okay.
20130326 15:29:36< shadowm> Closed.
20130326 15:30:08< Octalot> I think there's a few tricks to do a non-atomic git clone, but AFAICS little documentation about it.  Wesnoth may get the honour of writing the documentation, I'll give it a shot once the new repo is open. ("git clone --depth" then multiple runs of "git fetch --depth", followed by a final "git fetch" looks promising).
20130326 15:30:09< lipkab> Oh, you were quick.
20130326 15:30:38< shadowm> Actually, why don't I make the release announcement myself?
20130326 15:30:41< shadowm> I mean, I already have the text.
20130326 15:30:49< shadowm> Hehehehehe.
20130326 15:33:38< shadowm> Nah.
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20130326 15:37:08< shadowm> Okay, see you later now, for real.
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20130326 15:49:16< esr> I've finished removing Subversion references and dependencies.
20130326 15:49:38< esr> Now I'll copy this thing to baldras and try to recompress it.
20130326 16:01:41< esr> Copying to baldras.
20130326 16:11:36< Octalot> "git clone --depth 1" isn't going to help as much as I thought, it's still a 372MB initial download.  I'm now looking at tricks with get-fetch.
20130326 16:15:43< fendrin> Octalot: Why not providing a tarball?
20130326 16:23:24< esr> Octalot: If you figure this one out, I can get the script into the git project tree.
20130326 16:23:55< esr> Octalot: There's no reason anyone should have to solve this problem a second time.
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20130326 17:24:47< AI0867> Octalot: that will also decompress the repo to some extent
20130326 17:34:04< Octalot> Partial success with the tricks that I've tried so far.  Testing with local repos, Git appears to only let me fetch named references, not arbitary commits by SHA1.  Fetching the history for tag 1.1, then 1.2, then 1.3 etc looks to work (I'm having to do some mucking about, which I hope is just an artifact of my shallow-copied git-svn checkout).
20130326 17:35:24< Octalot> I'll script it up once I've worked round the mucking about.
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20130326 17:40:48< Octalot> The reason that I'm not thinking of tarballs is that they'd be about the same size as the git method.  But they would have the advantage of resumable downloads.
20130326 17:42:56< Octalot> I haven't figured out a way to get Git to reuse local objects that match ones on the server, unless I can give Git a commit ID that matches one on the server.  (Was trying to reuse images from an installed copy of the game).
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20130326 18:05:50< Ivanovic> shadowm, esr, vultraz: why not host the tarball of git on sf.net in the files section?
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20130326 18:34:55< esr> Octalot: Easiest way to get a resumable download would be just to copy a git repo as a directory with a tool that supports resumes.
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20130326 18:44:48< loonycyborg> I'm surprised that git clone isn't resumable :/
20130326 18:47:09< esr> I'm now repacking the repo on baldras, which has eight times as much core as my desktop machine.
20130326 18:49:52 * zookeeper wonders what "eight times as much core" means
20130326 18:50:07 * vultraz wonders too
20130326 18:50:47< esr> 4GiB RAM vs. 32GiB.
20130326 18:51:09< zookeeper> core memory, then
20130326 18:51:29< esr> AI0867 think that might give better compression.  It's plausible.
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20130326 19:05:28< esr> Recompression is 14% done.
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20130326 20:17:46< esr> Recompression is 25% done.
20130326 20:19:16< Ivanovic> shadowm: thanks for writing the forum announcement and updating the wiki
20130326 20:20:00< Ivanovic> regarding the download size: what i am using is the 'classical' version of MB which is these days changed in its name to MiB (meaning a factor of 1024 instead of 1000)
20130326 20:27:49< lipkab> I've discovered a cool new bug, which crashes the game on a common WML action, and the solution might require the intervention of multiple inactive devs.
20130326 20:27:52< lipkab> Yays.
20130326 20:42:26-!- Samual [diotecktec@xonotic/core-team/Samual] has quit [Quit: The person who said nothing is impossible obviously never tried to slam a revolving door.]
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20130326 20:43:15< mordante> servus
20130326 20:43:23< bumbadadabum> slaaf
20130326 20:44:26< mordante> hi bumbadadabum 
20130326 20:45:26< lipkab> hi mordante
20130326 20:45:37< mordante> Alarantalara I locked trunk and 1.10 to avoid accidental commits 
20130326 20:45:39< mordante> hi lipkab 
20130326 20:46:10< lipkab> wesbot: seen Ayne
20130326 20:46:10< wesbot> lipkab: The person with the nick Ayne 27d 21h ago they left with the message: Quit: Leaving
20130326 20:46:16< mordante> Alarantalara better wait for the git tree to be online
20130326 20:46:17-!- Ivanovic changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: git conversion started, please keep svn commits to a minimum! | 168 bugs, 332 feature requests, 20 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20130326 20:46:29-!- anonymissimus [~chatzilla@HSI-KBW-078-042-163-136.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130326 20:46:57< anonymissimus> esr: I'm anonymissimus at sf, pls add me
20130326 20:47:14< anonymissimus> (who would have guessed that)
20130326 20:48:07< esr> anonymissimus: I for one am shocked, *shocked* to hear it.  You're in.
20130326 20:48:42< anonymissimus> is the bug tracker still open ? I would like to post one
20130326 20:48:50< esr> Recompression is 30% done.
20130326 20:49:15< anonymissimus> meaning, is it a good idea to do it, independently from whether it works
20130326 20:50:51< lipkab> anonymissimus: I've just posted one... IIUC it's a completely different matter than the repo migration.
20130326 20:52:23< mordante> shadowm, uhm why am _I_ suddenly to blame for the big delay of 1.11.2?
20130326 20:53:18< mordante> esr, recompressing since yesterday?
20130326 20:53:56< mordante> shadowm, I already placed locks on trunk and 1.10
20130326 20:54:51< esr> mordante: No, this is a secoind try on baldras which has 4x the core of my machine.  The hope is to get the compressed repo from 2.5GiB down to 1.5.
20130326 20:55:22-!- thunderstruck [~thunderst@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust174.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20130326 20:55:33< mordante> esr, ah ok so you ended with 2.5GB, how long did it take?
20130326 20:56:05< esr> About 14 hours, I think.
20130326 20:56:55< lipkab> esr: I'm 'lipk' at sf, please add me too.
20130326 20:58:15-!- ancestral [~ancestral@mobile-198-228-233-238.mycingular.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130326 20:59:04< anonymissimus> wesbot: seen jamit
20130326 20:59:04< wesbot> anonymissimus: The person with the nick jamit last spoke 16d 22h ago.  16d 22h ago they left with the message: Quit: Leaving.
20130326 20:59:17< bumbadadabum> seen wesbot
20130326 20:59:25< bumbadadabum> wesbot: seen wesbot
20130326 20:59:25< wesbot> bumbadadabum: I am wesbot!
20130326 20:59:33< esr> lipkab: Done.
20130326 20:59:58< lipkab> Thanks.
20130326 21:00:04< esr> No!  *I* am wesbot.  (Now they'll crucify us all on the Via Appia.)
20130326 21:00:21< bumbadadabum> No! I am wesbot
20130326 21:00:36< lipkab> Blargh.
20130326 21:00:46< lipkab> Everyone knows you're not wesbot.
20130326 21:01:47< bumbadadabum> http://www.explosm.net/comics/1715/
20130326 21:01:55 * esr reads about Common Lisp while waiting for the compression to finish.
20130326 21:06:42< mordante> lipkab, did you file a bug report regarding the WML crash?
20130326 21:07:18< mordante> thanks for the forum link AI0867 
20130326 21:08:16< lipkab> mordante: Yes.
20130326 21:09:13< mordante> found it
20130326 21:10:29< anonymissimus> esr: do you type these announcements or are they somehow generated by the tools ?
20130326 21:10:55< _Coffee> shadowm: thanks for putting in the RELEASE NOTES about the syntax changes animation WML
20130326 21:10:58< lipkab> mordante: And "end_scenario" means of course "endlevel".
20130326 21:11:06< esr> I'm typing them.  You can tell by the typos. :-)
20130326 21:11:24< anonymissimus> no, I can't, haven't seen any
20130326 21:11:43< lipkab> _Coffee: Something isn't ok with the Orcish Archer's ranged animations.
20130326 21:12:12< mordante> lipkab, ok, could you ping me when you post a test-case?
20130326 21:12:20< lipkab> mordante: Sure.
20130326 21:12:33< _Coffee> lipkab: yes, many units are off a bit on timings
20130326 21:12:39< mordante> thanks
20130326 21:12:46< lipkab> _Coffee: Ah ok.
20130326 21:12:57< _Coffee> they are being worked on and we will soon have a thread in the art section asking for the main offenders
20130326 21:13:06< _Coffee> I've ran it past Jetrel and co
20130326 21:13:26< _Coffee> so we can get perfect timings and smooth movements
20130326 21:13:51< lipkab> Right, I'll report there then.
20130326 21:16:22< _Coffee> all the elfs range animations are out too if you look closely enough
20130326 21:16:47< anonymissimus> lipkab: that bug sounds like something that should happen frequently; I'd expect additional conditions
20130326 21:16:58< bumbadadabum> lipkab: I was working on those
20130326 21:17:20< _Coffee> yes, bumbadadabum has fixed a couple of units that were big offenders in the past
20130326 21:17:20-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130326 21:17:47< _Coffee> such as the bandit line
20130326 21:17:54< bumbadadabum> I thought I fixed the Orc Archer
20130326 21:18:27< _Coffee> well, what is wrong iwth the archer anyways?
20130326 21:19:47< lipkab> anonymissimus: Maybe or maybe not... there aren't many playtesters on 1.11.x.
20130326 21:20:05< _Coffee> we can find out :)
20130326 21:20:12< _Coffee> and lot of the bugs have been around for years
20130326 21:20:32< _Coffee> like the naga attack starting as it is moving backwards
20130326 21:21:02< lipkab> _Coffee: The first frames of the burst halo aren't displayed.
20130326 21:21:05< _Coffee> or the ulf non-first wave of attacks timings being instant, etc.
20130326 21:21:29< lipkab> ...or something like that.
20130326 21:21:41< _Coffee> we need to fix the problem where the animations require a blank hex picture in them at the start and end
20130326 21:22:23< _Coffee> many macros and units have blank pictures inserted at the start and end for a duration of 1 tick
20130326 21:22:34< _Coffee> I suspect this will cause problems for some people
20130326 21:22:41< _Coffee> and not some others'
20130326 21:23:02< _Coffee> I'll need some pointer on where to start from boucman for that though
20130326 21:27:38< _Coffee> probably should clean up some of the sound stuff in the wiki, as the duration parameter is now not required for simple sounds
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20130326 21:36:45< anonymissimus> lipkab: I just finished a playthrough of Dead Water on trunk :P
20130326 21:37:19< bumbadadabum> _Coffee: Why do units need the blank-hex frame?
20130326 21:39:01< anonymissimus> _Coffee: you know that your new animation syntax proably prevents wmlscope from checking that all the images used in the animation code are resolved, that is, do exist under that filename and directory ?
20130326 21:39:45< anonymissimus> if I have to choose between that check and the syntax simplification I certainly choose the check
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20130326 21:40:30< _Coffee> anonymissimus: so, we change wmlscope for frames?
20130326 21:40:54< _Coffee> anonymissimus: before there were many bugs
20130326 21:40:58< _Coffee> that still exist
20130326 21:40:59< anonymissimus> otherwise we'd have to rely on bug reports about "flashing missing image in animations"
20130326 21:41:13< _Coffee> to have any hope of fixing timings, etc. we needed a beter syntax
20130326 21:41:35< anonymissimus> as for unresolved animation images, it is basically guaranteed that there were *none*
20130326 21:41:48< _Coffee> um
20130326 21:41:55< _Coffee> if there is a missing image it will show up
20130326 21:42:00< _Coffee> when that unit is loaded
20130326 21:42:02< anonymissimus> that is, it was, now it's no longer
20130326 21:42:06< _Coffee> so
20130326 21:42:14< _Coffee> you just run the addon that shows all units
20130326 21:42:20< _Coffee> and look for images that don't show
20130326 21:42:21< anonymissimus> yes, but thats way too tedious to checks
20130326 21:42:23< _Coffee> easy enough
20130326 21:42:29< anonymissimus> and difficult to see
20130326 21:42:36< _Coffee> you don't have to see it
20130326 21:42:44< _Coffee> even if the units don't attack it will check
20130326 21:43:04< _Coffee> all you need to do is have them somewhere on screen and it will display output if there is a missing image
20130326 21:43:19< anonymissimus> hm, an error message about missing image will show in stderr, but only if the respective animation is triggered
20130326 21:43:27< _Coffee> no
20130326 21:43:34< _Coffee> it preloads these animations into RAM
20130326 21:43:41< _Coffee> this is why wesnoth gets quite big
20130326 21:44:03< _Coffee> about 1/5 I think of RAM is just this aniamtion stuff
20130326 21:44:11< anonymissimus> preloading is done for *some* animations ?
20130326 21:44:16< _Coffee> all animations
20130326 21:44:23< _Coffee> when a unit is loaded on the screen somewhere
20130326 21:44:46< _Coffee> try it for yourself ;)
20130326 21:44:53< anonymissimus> is that new ? doesn't match my experience
20130326 21:45:08< _Coffee> well, the sounds are not preloaded
20130326 21:45:12< _Coffee> it is not new
20130326 21:45:13< anonymissimus> in any case, checking with wmlscope is much more handy
20130326 21:46:04< zookeeper> well sounds like writing an automated animation tester wouldn't be too hard.
20130326 21:46:20< _Coffee> we already have one
20130326 21:46:27< _Coffee> the UMC addon PYR
20130326 21:46:33< _Coffee> has an scenario show all units
20130326 21:46:40< _Coffee> and links to default unit code
20130326 21:46:44< zookeeper> oh.
20130326 21:46:51< _Coffee> even shows units from campaigns
20130326 21:47:23< _Coffee> all you need to do is run it once to test all the unit animations exist
20130326 21:47:49< _Coffee> and if for some reason this doesn't work as claimed we can make it work, like for sound files as well
20130326 21:47:51< _Coffee> not hard
20130326 21:47:57< _Coffee> and almost no overhead
20130326 21:48:48< _Coffee> I think you guys just got used to bad timings, etc. :P
20130326 21:48:55< bumbadadabum> yup
20130326 21:49:04< bumbadadabum> after 8-9 years
20130326 21:49:15< _Coffee> but when you play wesnoth for the first time (with slow speed) you notice these things more
20130326 21:49:32< bumbadadabum> nowadays, yes
20130326 21:49:37< _Coffee> and it don't look professional
20130326 21:49:47< bumbadadabum> I've been using 2x speed for 2-3 years now
20130326 21:49:59< bumbadadabum> and before that, animations weren't that long or complex for the most part
20130326 21:50:35< bumbadadabum> maybe 3-4 years lol
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20130326 21:52:53< _Coffee> anonymissimus: I'll take a look at these concerns later
20130326 21:53:06< _Coffee> need to go to work unfortunately :P
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20130326 21:53:53< mordante> I'm off, night
20130326 21:54:10< Crab___> mordante: I've added some gsoc projects to the list in the wiki.
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20130326 21:54:57< anonymissimus> _Coffee: not used to them, but it's just that I consider everything graphics or sound-related rather secondary
20130326 21:55:41< anonymissimus> it does not really hinder the functionality of a program
20130326 21:55:41-!- ancestral [~ancestral@75-168-48-55.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130326 21:58:07< ancestral> shadowm: http://r.wesnoth.org/t38571 it’s true, read text on main page, just below the date of the Dev release post
20130326 21:58:24< ancestral> says 1.11.3
20130326 22:02:57< anonymissimus> shadowm: nice job wmllint-cleaning mainline btw
20130326 22:05:35-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: git conversion started, please keep svn commits to a minimum! | 170 bugs, 332 feature requests, 20 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20130326 22:12:58< anonymissimus> _Coffee: I have just proven you wrong; the error message about missing attack animation images only shows up once the animation is triggered
20130326 22:13:48< anonymissimus> I debug-created a unit with some missing image
20130326 22:14:13-!- skyfaller [~skyfaller@wikipedia/Skyfaller] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20130326 22:14:51< anonymissimus> yup, messages come while the animation runs
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20130326 22:19:48< Ivanovic> anonymissimus: fixed
20130326 22:20:10< Ivanovic> ehm, meant ancestral
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20130326 23:38:06< shadowm> Ivanovic: But you only know the correct size for the tarball, not the other files.
20130326 23:39:17< shadowm> From what I saw, some files were listed with the SF.net measurements, and others with whatever the uploader's OS said.
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20130326 23:57:31< esr> *Shit.*  Recompression failed: "fatal: Out of memory, malloc failed (tried to allocate 13230710 bytes)"
--- Log closed Wed Mar 27 00:00:46 2013