--- Log opened Tue Mar 05 00:00:50 2013
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20130305 00:48:19< jieverson> hello
20130305 00:48:31< jieverson> any developer from the Wesnoth-AI-Demos here?
20130305 00:49:27< mattsc> Hi, jieverson.  Yes.
20130305 00:49:38< jieverson> cool
20130305 00:49:44< jieverson> i am new at the forum...
20130305 00:50:08< jieverson> I am looking for using reinforcement learning at the game AI
20130305 00:50:11< mattsc> You posted about working on your masters thesis?
20130305 00:50:17< jieverson> yes
20130305 00:50:19< jieverson> it's me
20130305 00:50:36< mattsc> ok - I vaguely remember.  :)
20130305 00:50:51< jieverson> I just got the Git Hub version of the AI Demos...
20130305 00:51:14< jieverson> I should use that on what version? 1.10 or 1.11?
20130305 00:51:28< mattsc> 1.11.1
20130305 00:51:37< jieverson> hum, nice....
20130305 00:51:49< jieverson> and it is just to place the content inside the data folder?
20130305 00:52:07< jieverson> (sorry for bad english)
20130305 00:52:16< mattsc> We're definitely using things that don't work in 1.10; I forgot about 1.11.0, but I think some things got fixed for 1.11.1 that's used also.
20130305 00:52:29< mattsc> Into data/add-ons
20130305 00:52:49< mattsc> of your user directory, not of the main directory
20130305 00:52:49< jieverson> and it need to be recompiled?
20130305 00:53:09< jieverson> hum... so I dont need recompile
20130305 00:53:12< mattsc> No, you just copy it there, and then you can start it from the campaign menu in-game
20130305 00:54:08< mattsc> One thing, the directory needs to be called AI-demos, with that capitalization
20130305 00:56:01< jieverson> so, I dont need the source code? it's just get and install the game, than put the AI-demos inside the data/add-ons for the user?
20130305 00:56:26< mattsc> correct
20130305 00:56:59< mattsc> If you don't need the latest cutting-edge version, you could even just install the add-on from the Add-ons menu item
20130305 00:57:03< jieverson> nice... when I tryed to compile the game... it was like 20 minutes (using the Visual Studio 2012)
20130305 00:57:47< mattsc> I think that's not an unusual compile time for the first time (it does get faster if you only have incremental changes)
20130305 00:58:24< mattsc> Depends a lot on your computer, of course, and probably also on the OS (I'm on a Mac, compiling with Xcode)
20130305 00:58:36< jieverson> are u a developer of the game? or just from the AI?
20130305 00:59:17< mattsc> I'm a recent addition to the developer team, but pretty much only working on AI stuff
20130305 01:01:31< jieverson> nice..... are there any guide or docs about the current AI-demos? how to modify it, or other interesting things?
20130305 01:04:05< mattsc> Not really, as this is currently very much in a development stage.  Some info is on these wiki pages:
20130305 01:04:39< mattsc> Overall guide (although a bit outdated): http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Practical_Guide_to_Modifying_AI_Behavior
20130305 01:05:13< mattsc> Micro AIs (which show how to use most of these AIs, rather than change them): http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Micro_AIs 
20130305 01:05:46< mattsc> Other than that, just ask here, even if we're not around.  Somebody else might be able to help, and we usually read the logs and will reply later.
20130305 01:06:33< mattsc> jieverson: I have to leave in ~5 min.  I'll be back on later tonight, but not sure yet when (it's 16:06 in my timezone)
20130305 01:06:37< jieverson> really thanks =]
20130305 01:06:42< mattsc> Anything I can help with right now?
20130305 01:07:27< jieverson> is possible to change the "function" (or whatever it it) that choose what action to execute in LUA?
20130305 01:07:45< jieverson> or things like this, should be made in c++?
20130305 01:07:53< mattsc> You mean the action the AI executes?
20130305 01:08:31< jieverson> Actions Like, stay at the house, attack the ghost, or run away =p
20130305 01:08:44< mattsc> In that case, yes.
20130305 01:08:55< jieverson> what it the "No" case?
20130305 01:09:00< jieverson> is*
20130305 01:09:44< mattsc> Well, there are some things that cannot be done with Lua, but I don't think you need to worry about that for now.
20130305 01:10:07< mattsc> Those actions are called "candidate actions" in Wesnoth (some info on them at the links above) and can be programmed in Lua.
20130305 01:10:12< jieverson> what file did u recoment to me starting studing?
20130305 01:10:24< mattsc> In fact, almost the entire Ai-Demos set of CAs is written in Lua.
20130305 01:11:03< jieverson> it is just at the 1.11.1 right? i give a look at 1.10, and didnt find so much lua files
20130305 01:11:59< mattsc> There is some code for 1.10 also, but we stopped development for that version some while ago.
20130305 01:12:48< jieverson> so, just to end.. what file do u recomend to me start studing the candidate actions?
20130305 01:13:17< mattsc> As for an example to start with, I'd say have a look at one of the scenarios in the micro_ais directory (patrols.cfg or guardians.cfg should be pretty straight forward).
20130305 01:13:38< mattsc> And then check out the respective engine file in micro_ais/ais/
20130305 01:15:17< jieverson> the AI is separeted by scenarios?
20130305 01:15:31< jieverson> is the AI separeted by scenarios?*
20130305 01:15:54< mattsc> The AIs are separated by functionality, but the scenarios usually only use one type of AI.
20130305 01:16:44< jieverson> thanks mattsc... i will not take more your time by now =p
20130305 01:16:51< jieverson> i will have a look at it all
20130305 01:17:06< mattsc> No worries.  It's always good to have somebody else interested in this!
20130305 01:17:08< jieverson> if I can do something cool... I will share with you all
20130305 01:17:20< mattsc> Great!
20130305 01:17:33< mattsc> I'm off now.  I'll check the logs later to see if there is something else.
20130305 01:17:36< jieverson> i think i will fork the git hub projet
20130305 01:17:41< jieverson> ok
20130305 01:17:43< jieverson> bye
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20130305 02:20:50< jieverson> why can't I execute the "MP rushes" at "AI Modification Demo" campaign?
20130305 02:21:30< jieverson> It dont seens to work (jusr restart the AI Modification Demo)
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20130305 03:17:04< mattsc> jieverson: the MP rushes are multiplayer (MP) AIs only.  The campaign scenario doesn't do anything except tell you (in the messages) how to use them.
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20130305 03:20:43< mattsc> Also, the current version of the Freelands Grunt Rush (Fred) is somewhat in a state of disarray.  It's not playing as it should yet, and it's also very slow at the moment.
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20130305 03:21:06< mattsc> I am actively working on that, but I don't have much time atm, so it's slow progress.
20130305 04:17:00< jieverson> i did not find how to play the MP rushes yet...
20130305 04:17:18< jieverson> should I choose an especific map?
20130305 04:18:03< jieverson> is it on other addon?
20130305 04:19:41< mattsc> Fred only works on the Freelands map.  All the other MP AIs can be played on any map.
20130305 04:19:56< mattsc> How much experience playing Wesnoth do you have?
20130305 04:21:27< jieverson> i am new at the game at all.... I start playing it about 3 weeks
20130305 04:21:59< jieverson> Freelands map? is it on multiplayer section?
20130305 04:22:05< mattsc> Ok - it might be hard to notice the difference in the MP AIs in that case.
20130305 04:22:20< mattsc> Yes, let me walk you through how to set it up.
20130305 04:22:53< mattsc> Start Wesnoth, go to Multiplayer and start a local game.
20130305 04:23:26< mattsc> For Era, choose 'Default+Experimental AI'.
20130305 04:23:41< mattsc> ^ that enables the AI-Demos MP AIs.
20130305 04:24:09< mattsc> Personally, I also disable 'use map settings' and turn off 'fog of war' (because I want to see what's going on)
20130305 04:24:21< mattsc> The click ok.
20130305 04:24:38< mattsc> Does that make sense so far?
20130305 04:24:43< jieverson> "There are no modification current installed" says when i click on the button bellow the Era
20130305 04:25:01< mattsc> Right, ignore those.  That's something different.
20130305 04:25:41< jieverson> owww... now I can the the different AI
20130305 04:25:41< mattsc> Oh, also choose the Freelands map for now on that first screen.
20130305 04:25:48< jieverson> i think my bad was not change the Era
20130305 04:25:55< mattsc> Ok - good.
20130305 04:26:02< jieverson> thanks...
20130305 04:26:35< mattsc> As I said, 'Fred' has some issues at the moment, so if you test that AI, take it with some care (and potentially very long waits)
20130305 04:26:59< jieverson> ok
20130305 04:27:21< jieverson> i will put Default AI to play against the Rush to saw what will happens =p
20130305 04:28:22< mattsc> Latest I know, Ron has an 86% win rate against the Default AI (across all maps and factions).  Fred has a 93% wind rate (but only on Freelands, obviously).
20130305 04:28:34< mattsc> s/wind/win
20130305 04:30:50< jieverson> the game asked me to instal the Machine_Learning_Recruite
20130305 04:31:20< jieverson> but he says it is a path to the version 1.11.0... and I am using the 1.11.1
20130305 04:31:31< jieverson> is it a problem?
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20130305 04:33:54< mattsc> Did you choose one of the ML AIs?
20130305 04:34:35< mattsc> Those only work if you install the ML patch and compile it - and that's SeattleDad's work that I do not know much about myself.
20130305 04:34:52< mattsc> So I'd skip those for now  :)
20130305 04:35:47< jieverson> ok xD
20130305 04:36:40< mattsc> You might be interested in those later on for what you are planning to do, but you should really ask SeattleDad or Alarantalara about those.
20130305 04:36:59< jieverson> nice =]
20130305 04:37:22< jieverson> where are u working?
20130305 04:37:52< mattsc> Vancouver Island, Canada
20130305 04:38:39< jieverson> nice, are u a software developer, or something like that? =]
20130305 04:39:10< mattsc> Nope, I have no formal coding education at all.  I'm an astronomer.
20130305 04:39:35< jieverson> and u just like games? funny =]
20130305 04:39:57< mattsc> What can I say, I'm a science geek  :D
20130305 04:40:58< jieverson> have u worked in other opensource projects?
20130305 04:41:27< mattsc> No, first time I'm doing any shared coding with anybody.
20130305 04:41:37< mattsc> I really am an amateur  :)
20130305 04:42:19< jieverson> I am from Brazil,
20130305 04:42:39< jieverson> i am graduated in Computer Science...
20130305 04:42:57< jieverson> and current work as Software Engineed
20130305 04:42:59< jieverson> Engineer*
20130305 04:43:25< mattsc> Cool!
20130305 04:43:34< mattsc> So you know much more about this kind of stuff than I do.
20130305 04:44:14< jieverson> but I have not so much experiences with games...
20130305 04:44:24< jieverson> =]
20130305 04:44:26< mattsc> That will come quickly enough
20130305 04:44:52< jieverson> i program in a lot of languages, but not current in Lua (i will start studing now)
20130305 04:45:04< jieverson> yes, I think too
20130305 04:45:15< mattsc> Poke around in AI-Demos a bit, and then you can decide whether you want to spin off your own version or participate in it.  I'll be happy to give you commit access if that's what you want.
20130305 04:45:37< jieverson> and my English is a little poor, but I am current trying to improve it =p
20130305 04:45:42< mattsc> Lua's a rather simple language to learn.  Shouldn't take you very long to pick up.
20130305 04:46:09< mattsc> I think your English's very good.  Hardly noticeable.
20130305 04:46:17< jieverson> thanks
20130305 04:47:15< mattsc> I'll be afk for a little.  Be back in half an hour or so (but I'll stay logged in).
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20130305 04:47:55< mattsc> Btw, what time is it where you are now?  1am or so?
20130305 04:48:12< jieverson> nice... I think i will be sleeping after that (now its 1:00 AM here, and I work at morning =p)
20130305 04:48:25< mattsc> oh, there you answer my question  :)
20130305 04:48:50< jieverson> ow, I didnt see your question! hehe
20130305 04:48:58< mattsc> Ok, good night then.  As I said, I always read the logs.  It might take a little until I get back to you, but I will eventually.
20130305 04:51:48< jieverson> ah, how to read the logs?
20130305 04:51:59< jieverson> i am using the webchat
20130305 04:52:13< jieverson> should I get a client?
20130305 04:52:24< mattsc> http://www.wesnoth.org/irclogs/2013/03/%23wesnoth-umc-dev.2013-03-05.log
20130305 04:52:32< mattsc> (scroll to the bottom)  :)
20130305 04:52:51< mattsc> Or this for all the logs: http://www.wesnoth.org/irclogs/2013/03/
20130305 04:53:09< jieverson> thanks !
20130305 04:53:49< mattsc> bye for now
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--- Log closed Wed Mar 06 00:00:08 2013