--- Log opened Fri Apr 05 00:00:49 2013
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20130405 00:22:07< nurupo> http://gna.org/bugs/index.php?20381
20130405 00:22:53< nurupo> it says "not turn 1", but you can't save a game before the first turn, right?
20130405 00:23:48< lipkabb> nurupo: You can't save manually, but there's an autosave made at the "0th turn".
20130405 00:24:55< nurupo> lipkabb: just started the tutorial, looked up into Load game menu, it says that autosave is saved at turn 1
20130405 00:25:02< shadowm> That's called an start-of-scenario save, and it is correctly labeled as such in the Load Game dialog's sidebar on 1.11.x (on 1.10.x it's labeled as a "replay" because of a bug).
20130405 00:25:19< shadowm> Start-of-scenario saves are not created for the first scenario of a campaign, only for subsequent scenarios.
20130405 00:25:45< shadowm> Try :debug :n to skip the first scenario and you'll get the start-of-scenario save for the second.
20130405 00:29:26< nurupo> is there something special about tgame_load that i need to know, because none of my breakpoints there work? going to setup a clean version of wesnoth and rebuild it
20130405 00:30:20< shadowm> nurupo: gui2::tgame_load is the Load Game dialog _only_ if you use --new-widgets in the command line (not recommended unless you are actually debugging a GUI2-specific issue).
20130405 00:30:40< shadowm> Otherwise I think the Load Game dialog is handled by a function declared in dialogs.hpp.
20130405 00:31:34< nurupo> it's not gui2, it's just gui::tgame_load
20130405 00:31:55< shadowm> The nomenclature sounds GUI2 to me.
20130405 00:32:10< nurupo> it's in Dialogs\tgame_load.cpp
20130405 00:32:20< shadowm> Uh.
20130405 00:32:22< nurupo> *game_load.cpp
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20130405 00:32:36< shadowm> You are looking under src/gui, right? That's all GUI2.
20130405 00:32:53< shadowm> Most types declared in files there are part of the gui2 namespace, too, not gui.
20130405 00:33:11< nurupo> oh, i see. it's gui2
20130405 00:33:11< shadowm> What I said still applies; the regular Load Game dialog is implemented in src/dialogs.cpp, function load_game_dialog().
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20130405 00:34:06< nurupo> i'm just trying to find a code that displays the information about the save-file on the left sile of Load game dialog
20130405 00:34:32< shadowm> It must be called from that function, at least.
20130405 00:35:02< nurupo> and the only place i found is tgame_load::evaluate_summary_string(), which, i guess, never called, since my breakpoint don't get triggered
20130405 00:35:17< shadowm> Yeah, that's only used by the GUI2 version of the dialog.
20130405 00:35:30< nurupo> okay, will look for gui1 alternative
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20130405 00:38:29< nurupo> shadowm: thanks for gui1/2 clarification. i thought that i messed up my project setup and wanter to rebuild the whole thing, but it's actually was gui2 code which doesn't get executed by default :)
20130405 00:38:44< nurupo> *wanted
20130405 00:42:19< anonymissimus> what's up with this "descriptions should no longer include the name as the first line" apparently bogus wml error message ? It seems to come at random when I click on units.
20130405 00:44:12< nurupo> shadowm: so, if i fix something in gui1, i better also fix this in gui2 version too, since wesnoth is switching to it, right?
20130405 00:45:52< shadowm> It's a good idea to do so, although you should note that in this particular case, the GUI2 version of the dialog has remained mostly unmaintained for years.
20130405 00:46:14< shadowm> We are not switching to it 'soon', for sure.
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20130405 01:02:04< anonymissimus> shadowm: -N didn't help...
20130405 01:02:21< shadowm> What happened?
20130405 01:02:51< anonymissimus> well, same as  always
20130405 01:03:03< shadowm> What SVN version are you using?
20130405 01:03:13< anonymissimus> svn: REPORT of '/svn/!svn/vcc/default': timed out waiting for server
20130405 01:03:33< anonymissimus> I believe that that can't be a problem, since it used to work not long ago
20130405 01:04:22< anonymissimus> svn, version 1.6.17 (r1128011)
20130405 01:04:27< shadowm> Just wanted to check whether you should have used -N or --depth.
20130405 01:04:35< shadowm> Okay, -N should still work with 1.6.x.
20130405 01:04:43< nurupo> shadowm: is it possible to disable Option gui element (a checkbox) having only a dialog handle? gui::dialog doesn't have any obviously-named method that would return an option-box and gui::dialog::add_option doesn't return any handle to the option-box
20130405 01:04:52< anonymissimus> well, it didn't complain about it so I supposed it's still supported
20130405 01:06:27< shadowm> nurupo: Since this is GUI1, you have two options:
20130405 01:06:53< shadowm> 1) Expose an appropriate get_option method in the gui::dialog class (but I'll get to this later); or
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20130405 01:07:24< shadowm> 2) Add the checkbox yourself. If you look at the add_option method's implementation, you'll see it's actually pretty much a normal button with some options set.
20130405 01:08:08< shadowm> This happens to be why a get_option method might not be as easy to implement as just taking the second approach instead.
20130405 01:09:08< nurupo> what do you mean by "add checkbox yourself"? it's being added "myself" by gui::dialog::add_option() already
20130405 01:09:13< shadowm> (Note: I am no GUI1 expert, I have only messed with it a few times for very specific tasks related to implementing the current post-1.10.x Add-ons Manager dialog compared to its 1.10 incarnation.)
20130405 01:09:21< shadowm> *post-1.11.0
20130405 01:09:54< shadowm> nurupo: If you check the implementation of that method, you'll notice that it creates a non-scoped instance of a gui::dialog_button object and does some stuff with it.
20130405 01:10:36< shadowm> So it's not as magic as it seems to be on the outside; such non-scoped instances of similar objects are already created externally to handle some of the additional non-checkbox buttons used in that dialog.
20130405 01:11:21< shadowm> Uh, in fact, all of the non-checkbox buttons used in that dialog follow the same principle.
20130405 01:11:32< shadowm> TThat is, the OK, Cancel, and Delete Save buttons.
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20130405 01:12:45< nurupo> i see
20130405 01:13:58< shadowm> If you are looking at dialogs::load_game_dialog(), all that you'd need to replace, is the lmenu.add_option() call for the Change difficulty checkbox with a manual instantiation of a checkbox (following the gui::dialog::add_option() implementation) that you later check again near the end of the function when setting the value pointed to by select_difficulty.
20130405 01:14:21< nurupo> so i can do something like ` T* t = new gui::standard_dialog_button(); add_button(t);` and set some options on t myself. i hope i can do this outsde of the gui::dialog code
20130405 01:14:22< shadowm> This would be around line 618 and line 652 of my working copy of dialogs.cpp.
20130405 01:15:06< shadowm> nurupo: I believe you can. The gui::dialog_button class doesn't seem to be a private member of any other type.
20130405 01:18:24< nurupo> it would be a lot easier to make add_option() return a reference to the created gui::standard_dialog_button
20130405 01:19:27< shadowm> None of those add_foo() methods seem to return a reference or pointer to what they just created, though.
20130405 01:20:54< nurupo> uh-huh. for design consistency a get_foo() is required
20130405 01:21:21< nurupo> seems like someone just forgot to implemet one for the option :)
20130405 01:22:46< shadowm> To my knowledge, GUI1 was designed for the specific needs Wesnoth had back then (2005?), so it's probably just that nobody needed such a thing back then.
20130405 01:24:46< shadowm> I had to add a couple of things in that regard rather recently.
20130405 01:25:26< shadowm> Namely, the ability to pass the checkbox's tooltip string in add_option(), and the ability to have a button on the top-right corner of the dialog.
20130405 01:26:35< shadowm> Anyway, I'll stop now before I end up ranting about GUI1 vs. GUI2 again.
20130405 01:26:47 * shadowm goes awaaaaaaaay.
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20130405 01:48:29< irker915> anonymissimus wesnoth:master * 1.11.2-110-g90316ec / .gitignore src/.gitignore: .gitignore some files for cmake generator+Linux+CodeBlocks way of building
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20130405 02:00:12< nurupo> shadowm: i need to make a private pointer to the option-box in `dialogs.hpp`, how bad is it?
20130405 02:01:46< shadowm> That sounds like regular GUI1 business?
20130405 02:01:51< nurupo> dialogs is a generic class for dialogs and if every dialog starts putting its own private members there, it would be ugly. the pointer also would be accessible to other dialog members, which is again ugly
20130405 02:02:25< nurupo> /s/members/functions/
20130405 02:02:33< shadowm> 'dialogs' is a namespace.
20130405 02:02:53< nurupo> em... yes, it is
20130405 02:03:27< shadowm> Why would you need to make the pointer part of the namespace instead of keeping it local to the dialogs::load_game_dialog() function?
20130405 02:04:02< shadowm> (Also note that in C++ you cannot have 'private' members of a namespace, unless they are part of an 'anonymous' (unnamed) namespace.)
20130405 02:05:08< nurupo> because i need to enable/disable the option-box in dialogs::save_preview_pane::draw_contents(), which is called from the event processing loop
20130405 02:06:23< shadowm> save_preview_pane is a class. You could make it so you can pass the pointer to the checkbox in the class constructor or some member method.
20130405 02:07:08< nurupo> shadowm: you are right
20130405 02:07:23< shadowm> Although I presume it's not used for anything other than the Load Game dialog, so that could as well be a mandatory argument to the constructor.
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20130405 02:35:17< AI0867> http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=38638
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20130405 04:22:22< nurupo> shadowm: do you mind checking my fix before i put it in on patches.wesnth.org?
20130405 04:23:29< shadowm> Not at all. What's the bug you are fixing again?
20130405 04:23:52< nurupo> this one http://gna.org/bugs/index.php?20381
20130405 04:25:08< nurupo> the bugreporter claims that Change Difficulty checkbox should be disabled for save-files that have >0 turns done, since change of difficulty won't take effect
20130405 04:25:22< nurupo> (hope it's not a false bug report)
20130405 04:25:42< shadowm> Yes, that's correct.
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20130405 04:26:55< nurupo> shadowm: here http://anonymousdelivers.us/43930/080a79e6db4a8610f630153a04435f27
20130405 04:30:12< nurupo> found some typos in function description :)
20130405 04:32:37< shadowm> const std::string turn_string = summary["turn"]; <- Is there really no simpler way to get the turn number later on than doing some substring conversion op on that thing?
20130405 04:33:01< shadowm> (On save_preview_pane::decide_on_difficulty_option())
20130405 04:33:24< nurupo> summary["turn"] contains "current/total" string
20130405 04:34:08< nurupo> you can just do `std::istringstream stream(turn_string) >> turns_made;`, without substringing
20130405 04:34:41< shadowm> Anyawy, we generally don't use std::istringstream directly, I think.
20130405 04:34:46< shadowm> *Anyway.
20130405 04:34:56< vultraz> Hah
20130405 04:35:06< shadowm> vultraz?
20130405 04:35:20< vultraz> Anyawy
20130405 04:35:29< nurupo> what do you use to parse a number from a string then? scanf?
20130405 04:35:45< shadowm> We avoid C library functions most of the time.
20130405 04:36:03< nurupo> thought so
20130405 04:36:23< shadowm> In src/util.hpp there's a template function called lexical_cast(), and another called lexical_cast_default().
20130405 04:36:23< nurupo> but what do you use then? :)
20130405 04:37:18< shadowm> There are specializations of those template functions declared there that attempt to do conversions using more optimal codepaths wherever possibnle.
20130405 04:37:48< shadowm> For example, lexical_cast<int,const std::string&>(const std::string&) uses strtol().
20130405 04:38:22< shadowm> So the point is that we use the lexical_cast()/lexical_cast_default() family for most things.
20130405 04:39:09< shadowm> The difference between both is that lexical_cast() will throw an exception if the conversion fails, whereas lexical_cast_default() will simply return its second argument.
20130405 04:39:21< nurupo> would it work on string like "0/0" without substringing the needed number?
20130405 04:40:44< shadowm> Yes, apparently.
20130405 04:41:11< shadowm> According to strtol()'s documentation, "The remainder of the string is converted to a long int value in the obvious manner, stopping at the first character which is not a valid digit in the  given base".
20130405 04:41:43< shadowm> So strtol() (which is the implementation of the lexical_cast() case I mentioned above) would stop at the first / and discard the rest.
20130405 04:42:01< shadowm> At least on GNU libc, I am not a code lawyer so I don't know if this is standard behavior.
20130405 04:43:40< shadowm> So, the assignment to turns_made could be simplified as:
20130405 04:43:41< shadowm>   const int turns_made = lexical_cast(turn_string);
20130405 04:43:56< nurupo> i think it's good to assume that lexical_cast() implementation for int might change, so i would go with the safest way
20130405 04:43:56< shadowm> (Although current_turn would be a much better name IMHO.)
20130405 04:44:53< shadowm> In that case,  const int turns_made = lexical_cast(turn_string.substr(0, slash_position));
20130405 04:45:16< nurupo> yes
20130405 04:45:19< shadowm> Also, any particular reason you wanted valid_format to be assigned and used only once in consecutive lines?
20130405 04:46:10< nurupo> i just gave a name to a complex logical condition
20130405 04:46:19< shadowm> I believe the compiler would rewrite it as if(slash_position == std::string::npos || !slash_position) { return; } at non-O0 optimization levels anyway.
20130405 04:46:45< nurupo> it's a standard practice to в so, so when someone reads you code he won't freakout :)
20130405 04:46:51< nurupo> *to do so
20130405 04:47:00< nurupo> *your code
20130405 04:47:09< shadowm> (I also believe what I just said is a gross oversimplification of how an optimizing C++ compiler works.)
20130405 04:47:16< nurupo> argh, i need to check my messages before sending :)
20130405 04:48:21< shadowm> Okay, regarding the load_game_dialog() function now...
20130405 04:48:44< nurupo> shadowm: code should be readable first. it should be optimized to an unreadable state only if there is a need to do so, and then it should contain a description of what if does
20130405 04:49:43< shadowm> In your diff I don't see a hunk handling the check at the very end of the function.
20130405 04:50:05< shadowm> That is, the if (select_difficulty != NULL) { *select_difficulty = lmenu.option_checked(option_index++); } check.
20130405 04:51:34< shadowm> I am not sure whether you need to change that line (no idea whether the option_index == the difficulty switch checkbox assumption is broken), but you certainly need to add an additional check.
20130405 04:52:01< shadowm> If the checkbox is disabled (because the user selected a non-start-of-scenario save), you need to ignore its value and carry on.
20130405 04:52:05< nurupo> you are right, the index should have changed
20130405 04:52:20< nurupo> but what is the check you are talking about?
20130405 04:52:34< nurupo> okay
20130405 04:53:25< shadowm> Looking at the implementation of the dialog::option_checked() method, there is no check to return false if the option is checked _and_ disabled.
20130405 04:53:40< shadowm> So if you don't do that checkk downstream, you could run into the following situation:
20130405 04:53:51< shadowm> 1) Player selects a start of scenario save, activates the checkbox.
20130405 04:54:09< shadowm> 2) Player then selects a non-start-of-scenario save, the checkbox is disabled but still checked.
20130405 04:54:24< shadowm> 3) Player clicks OK, gets the difficulty selection dialog for a non-start-of-scenario save.
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20130405 04:55:19< shadowm> (Disclaimer: I haven't actually tested the patch yet.)
20130405 04:56:24< shadowm> Anyway, other than all this, it looks good to me.
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20130405 05:48:08< nurupo> shadowm: thanks for corrections :)
20130405 05:48:24< nurupo> submited the patch for review
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20130405 09:48:34< LordBob-desk> Hi guys
20130405 09:48:46< LordBob-desk> zookeeper, you online?
20130405 09:48:51< zookeeper> yes
20130405 09:50:19< LordBob-desk> Good. I need your help
20130405 09:50:40< zookeeper> sure, what's up?
20130405 09:50:43< LordBob-desk> See, I've been contacted by someone who's willing to do some story art
20130405 09:51:12< LordBob-desk> Judging by his portfolio, the guy could work wonders
20130405 09:52:01< zookeeper> mm-hmmh
20130405 09:52:07< LordBob-desk> But before throwing at him the entire HttT storyboard, I'd like to pick which scenarios we want to illustrate in priority
20130405 09:52:31< LordBob-desk> Or, find a smaller campaign on which we can put him to the test with 3-4 images
20130405 09:52:56< zookeeper> a smaller one sounds better for a first job
20130405 09:53:12< LordBob-desk> Seeing how you're currently the maintainer for like, every single campaign I've portrayed for, I thought you might have some ideas ^^
20130405 09:53:54< zookeeper> yeah, let's see...
20130405 09:54:05< LordBob-desk> btw, here's his portfolio: http://izg.daportfolio.com
20130405 09:54:45< zookeeper> nice
20130405 09:56:19< zookeeper> of the short campaigns, i think liberty would be the easiest. there's already an older set of story art for it, so replacing those and maybe adding 1 or 2 new ones would be perfectly good
20130405 09:56:45< zookeeper> there's an orcish incursion too which is even shorter, but i don't care that much for it so i'm not going to prioritize it :>
20130405 09:57:52< LordBob-desk> Liberty you say... *goes to check*
20130405 09:59:14< LordBob-desk> Oh, right, definitely up for replacement (gouges eyes out)
20130405 09:59:20< zookeeper> haha
20130405 09:59:58< zookeeper> sceptre of fire is reasonably short too, but would probably require some 5-10 images
20130405 10:00:52< LordBob-desk> I think Liberty's a good start
20130405 10:00:56< zookeeper> yeah
20130405 10:01:08< zookeeper> want me to write up a list of image suggestions?
20130405 10:01:32< LordBob-desk> Would you by any chance have a brief of sorts, similar to what we recently wrote for tRoW ?
20130405 10:01:59< zookeeper> not yet, but i could write one now, i suppose
20130405 10:01:59< LordBob-desk> Combined with the existing, it would be the perfect starting point for him
20130405 10:02:10< LordBob-desk> *existing story art
20130405 10:03:24< LordBob-desk> that would be very nice
20130405 10:03:40< LordBob-desk> if you please
20130405 10:03:47< zookeeper> sure
20130405 10:03:59< zookeeper> i take it that you don't mind acting as the messenger?
20130405 10:04:08< LordBob-desk> of course
20130405 10:04:15< zookeeper> okay, great
20130405 10:04:49< LordBob-desk> great, that's settled.
20130405 10:05:11< LordBob-desk> I can go back to the Ancient Lunch
20130405 10:05:29< zookeeper> yeah, i'll PM you what i got when i'm done
20130405 10:05:42< LordBob-desk> Okay, thanks
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20130405 11:05:35-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: Developers, please vote: http://r.wesnoth.org/t38590 | 171 bugs, 333 feature requests, 21 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20130405 11:57:41< zookeeper> LordBob-desk, PM sent
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20130405 11:59:32< zookeeper> LordBob-desk, addendum: it remains summer throughout the campaign, with the last scenarios perhaps already showing signs of fall.
20130405 12:00:02< LordBob-desk> Duly noted. Looking at it as we speak
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20130405 12:03:18< LordBob-desk> zookeeper: looks good. There are a number of precision that would help, though
20130405 12:04:02< zookeeper> okay. i mostly just tried to spec the things that should be depicted in a certain way and left the rest up for interpretation
20130405 12:04:08< LordBob-desk> First, do the numbers refer to scenarios in the game ? (if the artist taking care of a given story art wishes to check the general context
20130405 12:06:09< zookeeper> yeah, each scenario has one image allotted to it, except the epilogue has the last three
20130405 12:06:11< LordBob-desk> Second, in numbers 2 and 8, are the antagonists (cavalry and Halstead defenders) humans ?
20130405 12:06:22< zookeeper> yes
20130405 12:06:54< LordBob-desk> So 1-8 are individual scenarios, 9-11 are the epilogue
20130405 12:07:37< zookeeper> yeah. and if he leaves some of the optionals out, then those scenarios just won't have a story image, which shouldn't be a problem since they don't have any story text even now.
20130405 12:07:38< LordBob-desk> And third, is Elensefar a human city ?
20130405 12:07:41< zookeeper> yes
20130405 12:07:50< bumbadadabum> Liberty is human vs human
20130405 12:07:53< bumbadadabum> except one s
20130405 12:07:57< bumbadadabum> *2 scenarios
20130405 12:08:01< bumbadadabum> forgot the first one
20130405 12:09:32< zookeeper> LordBob-desk, so i take it that he's not actually played the game much?
20130405 12:09:43< LordBob-desk> I don't know if he has
20130405 12:10:15< LordBob-desk> I'm just gathering any information possible, so that the brief we write is as complete as possible
20130405 12:11:43< zookeeper> it's always easiest if the artist can at least quickly glance through the maps and portraits and that sort of stuff, but if we don't know how willing he is to do that...
20130405 12:11:49< LordBob-desk> Anyway, those questions are my own: I didn't play the Liberty campaign ^^;;
20130405 12:11:57< bumbadadabum> you should
20130405 12:12:10< bumbadadabum> I enjoyed it
20130405 12:13:00< LordBob-desk> zookeeper: Agreed. I'll mention that when I next contact him.
20130405 12:13:08< zookeeper> LordBob-desk, you might want to suggest that he for example produces sketches for each one first, in case we forgot to mention something notable
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20130405 12:13:20< LordBob-desk> yup
20130405 12:13:33< zookeeper> ok, well, we'll see what happens
20130405 12:13:44< zookeeper> looking at his portfolio it looks like he could do as good story images as anyone
20130405 12:14:05< LordBob-desk> bumbadadabum: I wish I had the time for that, but most of my Wesnoth time these days goes into art ^^;;
20130405 12:14:42 * vultraz wonders what he missed
20130405 12:14:52< bumbadadabum> vultraz: everything
20130405 12:15:29< LordBob-desk> Yeah, I think so. As often, the key will be how he handles working under the (relative) constraint of the community
20130405 12:16:32< LordBob-desk> Anyway, what I'll do next is drop these storyboards in the Art Dev forum so that they're available for future reference and forward them to the guy
20130405 12:19:42< zookeeper> sure
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20130405 12:23:18< bumbadadabum> Why is vultraz using the nick Yukiria?
20130405 12:23:20-!- Yukiria is now known as vultraz
20130405 12:23:41< LordBob-desk> split personnality disorder ? :p
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20130405 12:24:44< vultraz> It's my alt :P
20130405 12:24:58< bumbadadabum> Why Yukiria?
20130405 12:25:17< vultraz> Bc it's the first one I remembered
20130405 12:25:33< vultraz> Turns out it's a female name but whateverz #yolo
20130405 12:25:49< bumbadadabum>  /kickban vultraz
20130405 12:25:56< bumbadadabum> "#yolo"
20130405 12:25:58< bumbadadabum> get out please
20130405 12:26:17< vultraz> I'm joking, dude :P
20130405 12:26:26< bumbadadabum> still, get out please
20130405 12:26:26< bumbadadabum> :p
20130405 12:26:59< vultraz> #yolo #swag
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20130405 12:44:22< LordBob-desk> zookeeper: I've posted a new sticky in the Art Dev forum. I think I've gotten everything in, but don't hesitate to check
20130405 12:46:30< zookeeper> looks good to me
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20130405 12:52:56< vultraz> LordBob-desk: JW, what's with UtBS? Will portraits be made for it eventually?
20130405 12:53:33< LordBob-desk> That is a question I cannot answer
20130405 12:54:27< LordBob-desk> The last time I heard of UtBS (like, 2 years ago), it was under heavy revamp and has remained so to this day as far as I can tell
20130405 12:55:20< LordBob-desk> I don't know if there has been any actual progress, but back then we had decided to put portraits on hold until the rewriting was complete
20130405 12:55:50< zookeeper> no substantial progress that i've heard of.
20130405 12:56:01< vultraz> Well, Alarantalara was doing a bunch of stuff in 1.9
20130405 12:56:02< LordBob-desk> Plus, the maintainers at that time wanted Kitty to take care of it, but she went MIA since then
20130405 12:56:22< zookeeper> kinda hard to make progress when one person wants one thing and another something else, too
20130405 12:56:57< vultraz> And there's a new map sitting in UtBS-E, awaiting balancing
20130405 12:57:04< vultraz> but that's all I know
20130405 12:57:29< LordBob-desk> zookeeper: to be honest, I didn't quite follow the politics about that
20130405 12:58:16< vultraz> Honestly, I'd really like some new art for UtBS
20130405 12:58:22< vultraz> It feels like it's getting no love
20130405 12:58:44< LordBob-desk> It's a shame: the campaign is brilliant and fun to play
20130405 12:59:12< vultraz> Exactly
20130405 12:59:16< LordBob-desk> But it's steadily ascending the steps of the worst-mainline-art podium
20130405 12:59:37< vultraz> even AtS has better art :S
20130405 12:59:56< vultraz> (and shadowm did all the art for that)
20130405 13:00:18< bumbadadabum> UtbS mainly needs new sprites
20130405 13:00:28< bumbadadabum> and a new faction
20130405 13:00:39< bumbadadabum> well
20130405 13:00:54< bumbadadabum> make the faction something more than elves with +1 melee and -1 ranged
20130405 13:01:38< zookeeper> that's what the big UtBS reworking was mainly about
20130405 13:02:09< zookeeper> we just never came to an agreement on what their unit lines should be like exactly.
20130405 13:02:25< bumbadadabum> I might do some experimentation in my era
20130405 13:03:07< vultraz> So no new art can be done until everyone comes to a consensus on the faction design?
20130405 13:03:25< LordBob-desk> Sort of
20130405 13:03:50< bumbadadabum> my ideas ATM are:
20130405 13:03:59< bumbadadabum> have a light and heavy infantry line
20130405 13:04:23< bumbadadabum> kinda like hunter/fighter but more extreme
20130405 13:05:01< vultraz> I think there should be only mage line, Shyde
20130405 13:05:07< LordBob-desk> Vultraz: I guess eventually we'll have to kick some asses and try to get things in motion again, but before it comes to that there are still other campaigns that need love and get it they should
20130405 13:05:08< bumbadadabum> I think there should be 2
20130405 13:05:17< bumbadadabum> a healer with more HP, cleric like
20130405 13:05:24< bumbadadabum> and a ranged attacker
20130405 13:05:31< vultraz> bumbadadabum: yeah, but no Slyph
20130405 13:05:38< bumbadadabum> indeed
20130405 13:05:49< vultraz> LordBob-desk: what campaigns don't have art, now?
20130405 13:05:59< vultraz> s/art/portraits
20130405 13:06:45< bumbadadabum> I think the archer should be more of a mixed fighter
20130405 13:06:50< LordBob-desk> There's still SotBE that needs replacing, plus I'm not sure what happened with Northern rebirth in the end (did Valkier finish the cast ?) 
20130405 13:07:01< bumbadadabum> and no longbowman
20130405 13:07:11< vultraz> bumbadadabum: IMO, a lifestyle of desert living would result in more experience in healing and stealth
20130405 13:07:13< LordBob-desk> As for story art, pretty much every single campaign needs decent artwork
20130405 13:07:24< bumbadadabum> vultraz: The light infantry would be stealth
20130405 13:08:00< vultraz> LordBob-desk: yeah, story art would be nice :)
20130405 13:08:37< vultraz> It's kinda dispiriting that UMC can't reach mainline level, art wise, unless the creator has commission money.
20130405 13:09:24< bumbadadabum> and a paypal
20130405 13:09:30< bumbadadabum> *hint hint*
20130405 13:11:24< vultraz> bumbadadabum: which I don't have :P
20130405 13:11:29< vultraz> I would commission valk if I did
20130405 13:11:45< vultraz> $40 per portrait is cheap
20130405 13:13:09< LordBob-desk> Heh. I wish we had a dozen Valkiers or Kittys. We'd be long done with Mainline stuff and could focus on improving UMC and eventually expanding mainline, instead of spending ages revamping stuff that doesn't change at its core
20130405 13:13:25< bumbadadabum> if only
20130405 13:13:50< bumbadadabum> LordBob-desk: You could comission other artists to make portraits
20130405 13:14:01< vultraz> If only we had unlimited budget to hire people
20130405 13:15:46< vultraz> If we had even the people Big Fish Games Studios hires, we could have mainline all arted out in a few months
20130405 13:16:56< vultraz> As it is, only LordBob is there to make portraits, and a handful of good spriters
20130405 13:20:56< LordBob-desk> bumbadadabum: would if I had the budget
20130405 13:21:21< LordBob-desk> but these things are not into my hands
20130405 13:22:27 * vultraz wishes we could afford Andree Wallin
20130405 13:24:46< vultraz> http://andreewallin.com/portfolio
20130405 13:26:45< zookeeper> it's also been a long time since anyone's brought up voice-overs once again D: any day now...
20130405 13:27:26< vultraz> zookeeper: I was just thinking of that :P
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20130405 13:32:09< LordBob-desk> ? What's the deal with voice-overs ?
20130405 13:32:36< zookeeper> every couple of years someone suggests them
20130405 13:33:00< vultraz> Normally I'd support them, but it'd be a huge hassle re-recording them every time a string changed
20130405 13:33:08< LordBob-desk> Vultraz: yes, AW is like a god among current concept artists :^^
20130405 13:33:39< LordBob-desk> Oh, you mean like having actual voice acting in game ?
20130405 13:33:39< zookeeper> ...without realizing how utterly impossible it would be for us to voice-over everything, or what a hassle it would be to voice-over even just story text.
20130405 13:33:43< zookeeper> yeah
20130405 13:33:57< LordBob-desk> Yeah, definitely not in our reach :p
20130405 13:34:31< vultraz> We'd need to find voice actors for every character
20130405 13:34:40< bumbadadabum> yeah
20130405 13:34:50< zookeeper> somewhat understandably people tend to think that voice acting is easy, that all you need is a microphone
20130405 13:35:19< bumbadadabum> I could read storytext in front of a microphone
20130405 13:35:29< bumbadadabum> but actual voiceacting, nah
20130405 13:35:52< vultraz> What's that one UMC campaign that has voice acting on the intro storytext
20130405 13:35:54< vultraz> ?
20130405 13:35:59< bumbadadabum> TAM
20130405 13:36:21< vultraz> (or was it all storytext?)
20130405 13:36:29< zookeeper> if we had someone with a particularly good voice and who'd say that he's willing to re-record lines whenever needed, then i wouldn't be categorically opposed to voice-overs for story screens.
20130405 13:36:32< bumbadadabum> just the start
20130405 13:36:44< zookeeper> but for anything beyond story screens, just no.
20130405 13:36:48< bumbadadabum> good voice might be a problem
20130405 13:37:15< bumbadadabum> because it needs to be a native speaker
20130405 13:37:17< bumbadadabum> who has the time
20130405 13:37:21< vultraz> We'd need a huge budget to hire people to speak the lines
20130405 13:37:25< bumbadadabum> and a pleasant voice
20130405 13:37:29< LordBob-desk> not to mention the archive that would like, triple in size overnight
20130405 13:37:46< bumbadadabum> LordBob-desk: not really
20130405 13:38:07< bumbadadabum> if the audio is compressed well
20130405 13:38:20< bumbadadabum> the files are pretty compact
20130405 13:38:41 * vultraz imagines Johnny Depp voicing Delfador
20130405 13:39:21< bumbadadabum> I would want Christopher Walken as Delfador
20130405 13:40:21< vultraz> Emma Watson as Eloh :P
20130405 13:40:37< bumbadadabum> Nicolas Cage as Eloh
20130405 13:40:47< vultraz> xD
20130405 13:42:09< vultraz> Matt Smith as Konrad
20130405 13:42:58< vultraz> Bar Halberkamp as Baldras
20130405 13:43:05< bumbadadabum> nah
20130405 13:43:44< bumbadadabum> Baldras rly?
20130405 13:45:48< vultraz> Justin Bieber as Mal Ravanal
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20130405 13:45:57< bumbadadabum> enough
20130405 13:46:06< vultraz> hah
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20130405 14:01:50< LordBob-desk> Hah. Anyway, we should worry about story*telling* firsthand.
20130405 14:08:57< fendrin> There are voice acting projects out there. They do voice acting for free games.
20130405 14:27:12< LordBob-desk> fendrin: there might be, but for most campaigns we don't have a story that's worth putting into words.
20130405 14:27:25< fendrin> :-)
20130405 14:28:08< vultraz> TRoW
20130405 14:28:31< LordBob-desk> Maybe this one, yes.
20130405 14:28:48< LordBob-desk> But take SoF, for instance
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20130405 14:50:05< vultraz> LordBob-desk: any luck with the group buttons?
20130405 14:51:24< LordBob-desk> Not yet: I've been dealing with the whole story art thing and also hard at work with the lich, which I'd like to get done before I do other buttons 
20130405 14:51:32< vultraz> ah ok
20130405 14:51:37< vultraz> how's the lich going?
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20130405 14:52:46< LordBob-desk> Rather well. It's mostly jewellery and the background, now. I might even post a WIP later today
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20130405 14:56:47< vultraz> I hope he no longer looks like a middle eastern dancer
20130405 14:56:48< vultraz> :P
20130405 14:56:57< bumbadadabum> he looked cool
20130405 14:57:32< bumbadadabum> I liked the "ancient" feeling
20130405 14:57:33< vultraz> did not
20130405 14:57:55< bumbadadabum> he looked like an egyptian-ish guy
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20130405 15:01:32< vultraz> bumbadadabum: I would love an ancient Pharaoh lich, but he doesn't look like an ancient Pharaoh lich, he looks like an ancient belly dancer
20130405 15:01:39< bumbadadabum> no
20130405 15:01:53< vultraz> yes
20130405 15:01:56< bumbadadabum> no
20130405 15:02:03< vultraz> yes
20130405 15:02:32< bumbadadabum> google "belly dancer"
20130405 15:03:00< vultraz> ...I don't trust you
20130405 15:03:49< bumbadadabum> LordBob-desk: I'd say add more spikes
20130405 15:03:51< bumbadadabum> and more armor
20130405 15:04:03< bumbadadabum> and perhaps ditch the skirt
20130405 15:04:09< bumbadadabum> and go for a more armored lich
20130405 15:04:16< bumbadadabum> not fully clad, of course
20130405 15:04:27< bumbadadabum> but a more manly, strong lich
20130405 15:05:03< vultraz> LordBob-desk: I agree with bumbadadabum. Ditch the skirt, and maybe give him a pharaoh headgear thingy
20130405 15:05:13< LordBob-desk> Nah
20130405 15:05:37< LordBob-desk> The lich is more wizard than warrior, it seems to me
20130405 15:05:39< bumbadadabum> my main problem is that it doesn't really look powerful
20130405 15:06:00< LordBob-desk> That's not necessarily required, at least in the physical sense
20130405 15:06:26< vultraz> I really preferred the second sketch you had posted, before this arm stuff came up
20130405 15:06:30< bumbadadabum> no, but giving him more impressive armor/clothing will make it look powerful
20130405 15:06:37< LordBob-desk> If I were to do a draugh portrait, then yes, it'd be a freaking tank with spikes and possibly a drake arm for extra strength
20130405 15:07:10< bumbadadabum> what vultraz said
20130405 15:08:08< vultraz> The first sketch, thought the idea of a feminine lich is cool, it just didn't convey a sense of power
20130405 15:08:14< vultraz> The second one, however, was awesome
20130405 15:08:30< LordBob-desk> vultraz: which one exactly ? Can you lonk it ?
20130405 15:08:35< LordBob-desk> *link
20130405 15:09:07< LordBob-desk> (the thread is 40 pages long, I'm having trouble finding the sketches)
20130405 15:10:00< bumbadadabum> http://forums.wesnoth.org/download/file.php?id=61094&t=1
20130405 15:10:56< vultraz> http://forums.wesnoth.org/download/file.php?id=60088&t=1
20130405 15:11:06< vultraz> (except without the 3rd arm)
20130405 15:11:10< bumbadadabum> I didn't notice that one
20130405 15:11:35< vultraz> I think it's the predecessor of the on you just linked
20130405 15:11:40< bumbadadabum> yeah
20130405 15:11:54< vultraz> But honestly, I just don't like the extra arms
20130405 15:12:41< vultraz> But one of the things I liked about the sketch is the pose
20130405 15:12:59< vultraz> He's like beckoning
20130405 15:13:10< bumbadadabum> the pose wasn't very powerful
20130405 15:13:24< vultraz> I think it look menacing
20130405 15:13:25< LordBob-desk> It didn't look anymore powerful than the current one
20130405 15:13:35< vultraz> looks
20130405 15:13:44< bumbadadabum> it's more menacing
20130405 15:13:55< bumbadadabum> but the one I linked seems more powerful
20130405 15:13:57< bumbadadabum> strong
20130405 15:13:58< LordBob-desk> But back then, I think some people complained it was too mundane, more Lich than Ancient
20130405 15:14:51< LordBob-desk> Or maybe that was in the earlier stages. Either way, the arms were added as a mean to disturb the viewer
20130405 15:14:58< vultraz> Maybe you could kill the extra arm on it and make it into a new lich portrait?
20130405 15:15:16< vultraz> IMO, the current one is kinda outdated
20130405 15:16:11< vultraz> (Or make it an alt?)
20130405 15:16:22< LordBob-desk> Turst me, I've tried. Removing the extra arm also gives it an extra-frail figure
20130405 15:16:31< LordBob-desk> Which is even less interesting
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20130405 15:17:12< vultraz> hm...
20130405 15:17:26< vultraz> is frail bad?
20130405 15:17:48< LordBob-desk> Judging on your asking a more powerful lich, it seems, doesn't it ?
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20130405 15:19:54< vultraz> I thought I was asking for a menacing lich
20130405 15:20:03< vultraz> bumbadadabum: wanted the powerful lich
20130405 15:20:05< bumbadadabum> I asked for powerful
20130405 15:20:30< vultraz> I asked for menacing
20130405 15:20:39< bumbadadabum> mainly because it's a level 4 unit with very powerful attacks
20130405 15:21:01< bumbadadabum> it should look threatening
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20130405 15:21:19< LordBob-desk> Well, see, even you guys can't agree on it. How am I supposed to please everyone under such circumstances ? :p
20130405 15:21:24< vultraz> True, I suppose
20130405 15:21:33< vultraz> But the menacing one could be the lvl3 lich
20130405 15:21:51< bumbadadabum> The Ancient Lich is mostly used for campaign bosses
20130405 15:22:00< vultraz> I agree the lvl4 should be powerful, I just don't really like the extra arms
20130405 15:22:38< vultraz> bumbadadabum: don't you agree the lvl3 lich portrait is outdated?
20130405 15:22:52< bumbadadabum> vultraz: Kindof
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20130405 15:22:57< bumbadadabum> many portraits are outdated
20130405 15:23:04< bumbadadabum> but outdated > none
20130405 15:23:08< vultraz> True
20130405 15:23:29< vultraz> But it'd be nice to have a new lich to go with the new ancient lich
20130405 15:23:31< bumbadadabum> portraits will always continue to get better, hopefully
20130405 15:23:59< bumbadadabum> Before kitty joined, the Lutesian portraits were considered "very good"
20130405 15:24:09< bumbadadabum> then kitty made her elves, and that was the shit
20130405 15:24:39< vultraz> Which is why I suggested making a frailer, more menacing version from the sketch (sans 3rd arm) for the lvl3
20130405 15:24:39< bumbadadabum> and now the elves are nothing too special
20130405 15:24:41< LordBob-desk> Vultraz: yes, I do get your point about not liking the extram arm. But others like them and I'm among them. It's difficult to please everyone. 
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20130405 15:24:55< vultraz> And keep the powerful lich with the extra arms for the lvl4 
20130405 15:24:56< bumbadadabum> I don't mind the extra arm
20130405 15:25:01< bumbadadabum> adds a little flavor
20130405 15:25:12< vultraz> That way everyone is satisfied
20130405 15:25:19< LordBob-desk> Either way, I will likely post an armless alt, to be used as a lower lvl lich
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20130405 15:25:38< LordBob-desk> With also less bling
20130405 15:25:46< LordBob-desk> Best compromise out there, I think
20130405 15:26:11< bumbadadabum> yes
20130405 15:26:15< vultraz> yes
20130405 15:27:14< LordBob-desk> As for outdated portraits, if we're starting to replace Kitty's work then we might as well do another full round of generic portraits... Not very constructive. We've got to move forward, eventually 
20130405 15:27:40< bumbadadabum> What happened to kitty anyways?
20130405 15:27:53< LordBob-desk> Life got in the way, I guess
20130405 15:29:50< fendrin> wesbot: seen crab_?
20130405 15:29:50< wesbot> fendrin: The person with the nick Crab_ last spoke 21d 23h ago.  9d 2h ago person left:
20130405 15:30:47-!- bumbadadabum [~bumbadada@d155109.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: bumbadadabum]
20130405 15:31:00< vultraz> Speaking of kitty, whatever happened to your wriath (or was it spectre?) portrait?
20130405 15:31:56-!- bumbadadabum [~bumbadada@d155109.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130405 15:33:08< LordBob-desk> It's still on my desk. I'll get back to it once I'm done with the commission
20130405 15:33:42 * vultraz wonders if LordBob literally has a desk
20130405 15:35:16 * LordBob-desk does have one, its computer and graphic tablet are sitting on top of it. Portraits, howerver, are sitting on the metaphorical desk that is his hard drive
20130405 15:36:20 * LordBob-desk has just qualified himself as "it". Speaks volumes about the guy's mental health
20130405 15:36:44< fendrin> Ivanovic: Can you confirm that crab_ is responsible for the wiki?
20130405 15:37:42< zookeeper> fendrin, are you asking because of the spam?
20130405 15:38:35< zookeeper> if so, then he's already told me that he'll try to update the DPL thing so we can more easily mass-delete them
20130405 15:38:45< fendrin> zookeeper: No, I like to talk to him about the single credentials project.
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20130405 15:39:04< zookeeper> okay
20130405 15:39:37< fendrin> My first question would be how he managed to disable the first letter of a username being always capitalized.
20130405 15:47:53-!- mgla [~shishir@unaffiliated/noobjoe] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20130405 15:49:25< fendrin> AI0867: Around? Do you have some time? I have finished a first test setup.
20130405 15:59:34< AI0867> fendrin: mostly
20130405 16:00:41< fendrin> AI0867: Go to http://baldras.wesnoth.org:19980/mediawiki and register a user. Note that this mediawiki still capitalizes the first character.
20130405 16:00:51< fendrin> Meaning if you register "aitest" your username will be "Aitest".
20130405 16:01:37< fendrin> AI0867: Then go to http://baldras.wesnoth.org:19980/phpbb and log in with your new account.
20130405 16:05:06< fendrin> You may notice an error printed about not connecting to the ldap server. You can ignore that, its because I haven't setup the encrypted connection yet.
20130405 16:15:04< Soliton> upon creating an account: "There was either an authentication database error or you are not allowed to update your external account."
20130405 16:17:35< fendrin> Soliton: I just created a "Soliton" account without problems.
20130405 16:19:26< Soliton> that's great but does not explain the error i got.
20130405 16:20:42< fendrin> Yeah and it is strange. I did not do something local but used the webinterface just like you.
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20130405 16:22:35< fendrin> Soliton: Please tell me exactly what you did, so I can reproduce
20130405 16:25:52< Soliton> went to login/create..., clicked on create..., put in 'TestUser' with password 'hello'. clicked create account.
20130405 16:26:32< AI0867> fendrin: 
20130405 16:26:32< AI0867> Warning: ldap_start_tls(): Unable to start TLS: Can't contact LDAP server in /usr/share/mediawiki-extensions/ldapauth/LdapAuthentication.php on line 580
20130405 16:26:36< AI0867> Warning: ldap_start_tls(): Unable to start TLS: Can't contact LDAP server in /usr/share/mediawiki-extensions/ldapauth/LdapAuthentication.php on line 580
20130405 16:26:39< AI0867> Warning: ldap_start_tls(): Unable to start TLS: Can't contact LDAP server in /usr/share/mediawiki-extensions/ldapauth/LdapAuthentication.php on line 580
20130405 16:27:15< fendrin> AI0867: That is the error I talked about. It can be ignored, its just a warning that a fallback to unencrypted connection is done.
20130405 16:27:24< AI0867> Login error
20130405 16:27:25< AI0867> There was either an authentication database error or you are not allowed to update your external account.
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20130405 16:27:31< AI0867> on creating an account
20130405 16:31:11< fendrin> AI0867, Soliton: It's the empty "Real name" field. Put a value in there and it works.
20130405 16:33:06< AI0867> gah
20130405 16:33:10< AI0867> it says it's optional
20130405 16:33:46< fendrin> And if it weren't we should get a much better error message. But I do not worry yet. I think this is easy to fix.
20130405 16:33:54< AI0867> okay, it works
20130405 16:34:35 * fendrin celebrates
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20130405 17:31:22< AI0867> fendrin: I created a 'bar' account through phpbb, and now I can't log in using it
20130405 17:34:01< AI0867> and I can try to change the password of 'Foo' in phpbb, but it complains about me not having an email address
20130405 17:34:33< AI0867> when I add an email address, I can change my password, but it's the local phpbb one that I change, not the ldap one, so it has no effect
20130405 17:35:11< fendrin> AI0867: Yes, phpbb user creation and password changing would have to be disabled.
20130405 17:35:41< fendrin> AI0867: The phpbb auth plugin is read only, it can't write anything into the ldap.
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20130405 18:31:45< nurupo> can somebody tell how do i send these notifications this guy is talking about http://gna.org/bugs/?19328 ?
20130405 18:32:15< nurupo> is it a whisper?
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20130405 18:53:11< fendrin> nurupo: I think it refers to the Desktop's notification system. It only displays messages when Wesnoth is not the active application.
20130405 18:53:36< fendrin> Espreon: ^
20130405 18:54:16< nurupo> freim: i found a forum message saying that wesnoth uses D-Bus for notifications, so there are no notifications on windows os
20130405 18:56:56< nurupo> i wonder if it would be acceptable to make notification work on windows os by using WinApi calls
20130405 18:58:12< Soliton> if that's how you do it on windows, sure, why not.
20130405 18:59:40< Soliton> http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/dbus#Windows_port maybe that's interesting as well, though.
20130405 19:01:48< Soliton> i don't know how complicated the WinApi way would be but for maintenance the less platform specific code the better.
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20130405 19:27:12< fendrin> LordBob-desk: The lich is awesome.
20130405 19:31:51< vultraz> LordBob-desk: lich looking good :) One little nitpick, I think it would look better if the hands were switched (eg, the one facing down made to face up, and vice versa)
20130405 19:35:17< vultraz> With his right hand down, it almost seems (to me, at least), like he could be saying, "Bitch, I'm fabulous" :P
20130405 19:36:49< bumbadadabum> LordBob-desk: Awesome lich man
20130405 19:36:57< vultraz> So my suggestion would just be swap the hands
20130405 19:39:08< vultraz> besides that, looks great :)
20130405 19:57:14< LordBob-desk> Ah. If this is how you see him, then it means I have messed up part of the shading. The right hand is supposedly holding a purse, but it's very difficult to see it
20130405 19:58:22< LordBob-desk> And the left hand will be tracing some kind of fiery magical circle in the air
20130405 19:59:18< LordBob-desk> Which just goes to show that he's indeed "almost done"
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20130405 20:05:56< irker246> fendrin wesnoth:master * 1.11.2-112-gd9ab14f / images/buttons/editor/brush/brush-1-active-pressed.png images/buttons/editor/brush/brush-1-active.png images/buttons/editor/brush/brush-1-disabled-pressed.png images/buttons/editor/brush/brush-1-disabled.png images/buttons/editor/brush/brush-1-highlighted.png images/buttons/editor/brush/brush-1-pressed-highlighted.png images/buttons/editor/brush/brush-1-pressed.png images/buttons/editor/brush/brus
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20130405 21:11:24< Ivanovic> fendrin: i am not 100% sure that crab_ takes care of the wiki, but he is the most likely person
20130405 21:12:14< fendrin> Ivanovic: tx
20130405 21:12:28< fendrin> Ivanovic: Some last tests then I will write a mail to report about my investigations.
20130405 21:12:31< Ivanovic> what is the status of the LDAP process?
20130405 21:12:40< Ivanovic> cool, looking forward to the mail!
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20130405 22:22:09< irker246> fendrin wesnoth:master * 1.11.2-113-g3f8d6f5 / src/widgets/button.cpp src/widgets/button.hpp: Enabled the use of the "disabled" image variants for gui1 buttons.
20130405 22:28:39< fendrin> We have this images for ages...
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20130405 22:53:17< irker246> fendrin wesnoth:master * 1.11.2-114-g7cda069 / images/buttons/editor/paste_button_editor-active.png images/buttons/editor/paste_button_editor-pressed.png images/buttons/editor/paste_button_editor.png: Removed obsolete pink button images.
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20130405 23:05:36-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: Developers, please vote: http://r.wesnoth.org/t38590 | 172 bugs, 333 feature requests, 21 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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--- Log closed Sat Apr 06 00:00:07 2013