--- Log opened Wed Apr 10 00:00:15 2013
--- Day changed Wed Apr 10 2013
20130410 00:00:15< shadowm> Mr_FauxPas_AFK: I think so.
20130410 00:00:28< Mr_FauxPas_AFK> M'kay
20130410 00:03:49< Mr_FauxPas_AFK> shadowm: Could you add me to GSoC group on forums ? My nickname there is Mr_FauxPas
20130410 00:04:30< shadowm> Mr_FauxPas_AFK: Done.
20130410 00:04:54< Mr_FauxPas_AFK> thanks
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20130410 00:44:48< AI0867> mordante: any particular reason why sdl_utils.cpp uses both tfloat and fixed_t?
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20130410 00:49:47< esr> History rewrite was supposed to get finished today, but this is me from a laptop - graphics-=card upgrade went badly wrong on my main machine, am trying to recover.
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20130410 01:07:40< AI0867> Upthorn: any progress on the persistent variables? I have some code here that fixes the crash, but it doesn't leave subnamespaced variables intact
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20130410 01:17:00< fabi> esr: What is the state of the old repo at SF, can I still commit?
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20130410 01:20:09< esr> fabi: Yes, commits are open.
20130410 01:20:20< fabi> cool, tx
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20130410 01:37:04< Upthorn> AI0867: been a tad busy the past few days, will look into it tomorrow for certain
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20130410 06:16:45< kelpy> hello?
20130410 06:18:45< kelpy> well, if anyones out there, Im an interested Google Summer of Code student and would love to talk to someone about working on wesnoth
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20130410 06:39:45< zookeeper> shadowm, roger.
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20130410 09:41:22< Cuong> Hi guys
20130410 09:41:56< vultraz> hey
20130410 09:42:33< Cuong> Anyone here planning on applying for the Google summer of code program?
20130410 09:42:51< ThePawnBreak> hi; I'm considering applying
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20130410 09:44:45< Cuong> Have you done Google Summer of Code before?
20130410 09:45:07< ThePawnBreak> no; I'm a freshman
20130410 09:45:36< Cuong> Same
20130410 09:45:49< ThePawnBreak> are you planning on applying, too?
20130410 09:45:56< Cuong> Yeah!
20130410 09:46:13< Cuong> I really liked turned based strategy games before
20130410 09:46:28< Cuong> I'm still unsure what I should be doing to increase my chance of accpetance though
20130410 09:47:00< ThePawnBreak> contributing a patch would probably help considerably
20130410 09:47:25< Cuong> What do you mean by contributing a patch
20130410 09:47:34< ThePawnBreak> find an issue in the game and fix it
20130410 09:47:43< Cuong> What level of programming experience would you need for that?
20130410 09:47:59< ThePawnBreak> it depends on the issue; I'm not familiar with the codebase yet
20130410 09:48:06< Cuong> I'm taking a data structures class as of right now, but I'm not sure if that's enough
20130410 09:48:09< Cuong> Oh
20130410 09:48:50< vultraz> Wesnoth is coded in C++
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20130410 09:52:06< Derek> Hello
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20130410 09:59:21< Cuong> Hello
20130410 09:59:37< Cuong> Sorry about that ThePawnBreak
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20130410 10:02:40-!- shadowm changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeIdeas | Will move the repo to github, please read the dev-ml! | 172 bugs, 333 feature requests, 20 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20130410 10:08:52< LordBob-desk> Hi people
20130410 10:11:33< Cuong> Hi there
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20130410 11:19:17< thunderstruck> How can I pass some value from C++ to WML? I noticed 'map_formula_callable', but I'm not sure if it is the thing I'm looking for..
20130410 11:20:30< Crab_> thunderstruck: no, that's not it
20130410 11:20:40< Crab_> thunderstruck: you can set a WML variable from C++
20130410 11:22:15< thunderstruck> Crab_, should I need to do read/write some 'config' in order to do that?
20130410 11:22:33< thunderstruck> to read/write*
20130410 11:24:52< Crab_> see http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth/trunk/src/gamestatus.hpp game_data class. it can be accessed via resources::gamedata
20130410 11:25:19< zookeeper> Crab_, saw my DPL question yesterday?
20130410 11:25:53< Crab_> zookeeper: Yes. will try to fix it this Saturday. maybe earlier if I'll find time.
20130410 11:26:00< zookeeper> ok, cool
20130410 11:26:47< zookeeper> the registrations were re-enabled <24h ago and there's already a ton of new spam in the wiki
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20130410 11:43:37< Crab_> zookeeper: I'll try to think about something to deal with the spam. meanwhile, deleted/blocked today's spammers.
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20130410 11:45:00< zookeeper> Crab_, awesome, thanks
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20130410 12:35:36< thunderstruck> Crab_, I think that due to assert which says state_of_game != NULL, I won't be able to use it. I need to pass the current theme (e.g. Default, Widescreen etc) to the WML.
20130410 12:36:45< thunderstruck> I guess it is dead simple, but I'm missing something.
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20130410 13:57:10< Crab_> thunderstruck: if state_of_game is NULL, then it means that it's outside of normal scenario flow (maybe in some init code?). can you describe at what moment at which you want to do it?
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20130410 13:59:18< thunderstruck> I'm trying to fix this bug: https://gna.org/bugs/?20592. The file called wml_message.cfg has one parameter which I want to change according to the current theme.
20130410 13:59:28< thunderstruck> So I was thinking to store the current theme somewhere in .cfg and then retrieve it from wml_message.cfg.
20130410 14:01:05< vultraz> Can't you fetch the theme id?
20130410 14:02:15< thunderstruck> vultraz, fetch it from where?
20130410 14:02:24< vultraz> Or instead of doing that, simply make it so the dialog box is always drawn starting from the border of the left oolbar
20130410 14:02:36< vultraz> er, left border of the screen
20130410 14:02:41< vultraz> and cut if it a toolbar is present
20130410 14:02:47< vultraz> er
20130410 14:02:49< vultraz> right
20130410 14:02:52< vultraz> god damn I can't type
20130410 14:02:59< vultraz> lemme rephrase this
20130410 14:03:32< vultraz> have it drawn the width of the screen, but below the sidebars
20130410 14:03:49< vultraz> or cut it off when a sidebar is present
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20130410 14:04:54< vultraz> But I really don't know how that works. It *used* to work, somewhere in 1.9 I think
20130410 14:05:08< vultraz> (work = that bug didn't appear)
20130410 14:06:26< thunderstruck> vultraz, I wonder if I have border width information available in wml_message.cfg
20130410 14:08:48< vultraz> Possibly, but as I said, I have noooo idea how that code works 
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20130410 14:10:04< thunderstruck> Anyway, how can I pass information between WML files? Only using #define?
20130410 14:14:19< vultraz> or including them
20130410 14:14:24< vultraz> {path/to/file.cfg}
20130410 14:15:59< thunderstruck> So if I got in some .cfg 'foo="bar"'. And I include that .cfg using {}. How do I access foo attribute value?
20130410 14:17:30< lipkab> You do not access it. It's as simple as that :P
20130410 14:17:43< lipkab> Don't think about attributes as variables.
20130410 14:18:48< Crab_> thunderstruck: basically, WML is first processed, then loaded by game, then parts of it control the execution flow at various stages.
20130410 14:19:34< Crab_> thunderstruck: so, if you want to change something at the preprocessor level, you cannot 'access' the values of any attributes, since there's noone to do the access
20130410 14:20:06< Crab_> thunderstruck: At this step there's just a preprocessor which does the macro expansion, file inclusion, and a few other things.
20130410 14:21:11< Crab_> thunderstruck: loading is simple, it gets some parts of WML into C++ config/vconfig objects. and at any place which does actually do something based on the loaded WML, you can make it read any loaded subconfigs/attributes
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20130410 14:21:51< Crab_> thunderstruck: so, if you want to fix things at the preprocessor level, you can, for example, make the current theme available as a preprocessor define (if it isn't already) 
20130410 14:22:30< Crab_> thunderstruck: then, preprocessor would be able to create different processed WML based on that define
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20130410 14:23:06< Crab_> thunderstruck: an example of such mechanism would be the difficulty level selection - it's put into a list of defines by C++ code, and affects the processed WML.
20130410 14:23:17< lipkab> I'm not sure that's a good idea for themes.
20130410 14:23:54< Crab_> lipkab: I do not know if it's a good idea or not. but at least it's the way to do it, if the plan is to fix that on preprocessor level.
20130410 14:23:55< lipkab> You'd basically make core stuff like dialog definitions depend on add-on style stuff, i.e. themes.
20130410 14:25:03< thunderstruck> lipkab, so I should do something as vultraz suggested?
20130410 14:25:47< lipkab> Yeah, I think so.
20130410 14:27:11< lipkab> Making wml_message behave differently for *specific* themes sounds really evil to me.
20130410 14:27:37< lipkab> I guess mordante would like it even less.
20130410 14:28:15< vultraz> Yes, it does sound bad
20130410 14:28:25< vultraz> especially since you can make a lot of custom themes in UMC
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20130410 14:30:46< vultraz> (Not that people *do*, but you should kinda prepare for any possibility, even border cases)
20130410 14:31:32< lipkab> Well, Crendgrim wanted to do something for his add-on.
20130410 14:31:45< lipkab> Not sure how did it end up.
20130410 14:32:35< vultraz> He has a custom theme, which is basically default with most panels removed, IIRC
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20130410 15:11:32< mattsc> Crab_: do you know why AI aspects defined in a [side] tag that also includes a Lua engine definition do not get set?  (or in MP scenarios, in fact)
20130410 15:11:44< mattsc> See the first bullet here: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Practical_Guide_to_Modifying_AI_Behavior#Ideas_for_Potentially_Easy_AI_Patches
20130410 15:11:56< Crab_> mattsc: I saw you talking about that in the IRC logs.
20130410 15:12:33< mattsc> Yeah, now that the Micro AIs are in mainline, this is starting to trip up more people.  If it is relatively easy to fix, it might be a good project for a GSoC applicant.
20130410 15:12:58< mattsc> Esp. somebody wanting to work on an AI project ...
20130410 15:13:00< Crab_> mattsc: it might be that the lua code includes a version attribute
20130410 15:13:36< Crab_> mattsc: so, the game considers the config to be written in new post-1.8 style, thus not triggering the upgrade procedure, thus ignoring the old-style aspect definitions like A=B
20130410 15:13:39< mattsc> Hmm, well, I always set the version when defining a Lua engine, IIRC it doesn't work otherwise.
20130410 15:13:58< Crab_> and ignoring old-style config snippets is a side effect of this.
20130410 15:14:24< mattsc> Interesting, I didn't know that.
20130410 15:14:35< Crab_> I have to think a little to figure out why my rationale for deprecating the A=B style config was.
20130410 15:14:47< Crab_> if it no longer holds, it'd be worth changing.
20130410 15:15:53< mattsc> So just to confirm, is it correct that I need to define the version number if I want to use the Lua engine?
20130410 15:16:37< mattsc> I'm reasonably sure that I have tried without several times and didn't get it to work.
20130410 15:17:10< alushnikov> Someone talked about GSoC projects? :)
20130410 15:18:03< alushnikov> Seems that you mostly want AI upgrades with this Summer of Code, right?)
20130410 15:18:41< mattsc> alushnikov: possibly.  :)  I'm raising an issue that I thought was a bug, but that might be a feature.  
20130410 15:19:44< vultraz> mattsc: seems a lot of AI stuff going on recently...both GCI and GSoC
20130410 15:19:44< alushnikov> Hehe, documented bug is feature :))
20130410 15:20:37< mattsc> The fact that it's mostly AI projects probably stems from the fact that Crab_ is one of the mentors...
20130410 15:20:56< alushnikov> Btw, I want to try myself with wesnoth as student this summer. Currently going to look into code.
20130410 15:21:05< Crab_> mattsc: yes, it's correct for the version number.
20130410 15:21:37< Crab_> alushnikov: good luck, then. and if you haven't played, you should - it's important for the AI projects :)
20130410 15:22:02< alushnikov> I've playing wesnoth from time to time :)
20130410 15:22:05< Crab_> great
20130410 15:22:10< mattsc> Crab_: And would this same reasoning apply to MP scenario also (all MP scenario, without a specific AI definition)
20130410 15:22:14< alushnikov> It's the best for linux
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20130410 15:22:52< alushnikov> Crab_: you're the one working with AI, right?
20130410 15:23:22< Crab_> mattsc: yes, to any scenario. it's caused by poor deprecation of the previous syntax, probably. People still use A=B style for aspect, and it worked for them because of transparent upgrade.
20130410 15:23:50< Crab_> alushnikov: yes, I'm the person to ask about the AI projects
20130410 15:24:19< alushnikov> I have some experience with lua and AI. I've made several simple games for mobile with lua. AI projects are always alot of fun, maybe will try to apply for your projects :)
20130410 15:25:51< alushnikov> When are you available (time)? While learning wesnoth code I may try to do something useful, maybe will need some of your guides.
20130410 15:26:09< Crab_> some of them are easier than others... e.g. recruitment one is probably the easiest.
20130410 15:26:15< Crab_> workdays 9-16 GMT, but not all the time.
20130410 15:26:36< mattsc> Crab_: ok.  I don't think more than a handful of people know about this yet.  So if there's a reason to get rid of the old syntax, we need to "advertise" it a little better.
20130410 15:26:50< Crab_> mattsc: I'll try to figure out if the reason is still valid.
20130410 15:26:56< mattsc> I'd vote for keeping the old syntax, btw, unless there's a real reason not to do so.
20130410 15:27:12< alushnikov> Crab_: Do you want me to implement something with AI before GSoC starts to try me out?)
20130410 15:27:12< mattsc> Oops...  Sent that at the same time.  Ok, thanks.
20130410 15:27:51< Crab_> alushnikov: yes. in general, we want a successful applicant to be able to compile wesnoth and do at least 1-2 patches before the application deadline.
20130410 15:28:26< Crab_> alushnikov: it can be just any bugfixes for bugs from bugs.wesnoth.org (we have plenty, look at recent ones, probably quite a few small things there)
20130410 15:29:19< Crab_> alushnikov: but I'll write about a couple of project-specific tasks soon - I can think of something now, if you let me know in which project(s) you're specifically interested.
20130410 15:30:51< alushnikov> Do you think AI tasks listed here http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeIdeas are hard enough to be implemented whole summer?
20130410 15:31:08< alushnikov> Crab_: Do you think AI tasks listed here http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeIdeas are hard enough to be implemented whole summer?
20130410 15:31:21< Crab_> alushnikov: yes, those tasks are good enough for a whole summer.
20130410 15:31:54< Crab_> alushnikov: a good student can do them more quickly, but, for example, a student failed in 2012 with one of them.
20130410 15:32:24< alushnikov> Crab_: hmm. Then it should be trickier than it seems at first sight :)
20130410 15:32:43< alushnikov> Crab_: Ok, then I'll look through wesnoth code today-of tomorrow and then will try to select something more specific from the tasks listed
20130410 15:32:53< Crab_> alushnikov: depends. recruitment is easiest, since you can code from scratch - you just need to invest enough time and it'll be good.
20130410 15:33:24< Crab_> alushnikov: 'improving defense' project is trickier, since it involves some research (we know the problem exactly, but we  don't know an exact solution)
20130410 15:33:36< Crab_> ' Improve configuration and behavior in mainline campaigns' is somewhat in between.
20130410 15:35:48< Crab_> alushnikov: also note that, a question gets raised at some point 'well, with just 1 mentor for AI projects, does it mean that only 1 project would be accepted?'
20130410 15:36:56< Crab_> alushnikov: but, that's not the case due to other people being able to mentor those projects as well, and due to an ability to have multiple students per mentor. (e.g. I had two students last year, and plus there was a AI-related student with other person as mentor)
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20130410 15:37:39< fabi> hello
20130410 15:37:45< alushnikov> Crab_: If I remember correctly you should have 1 mentor - 1 student.
20130410 15:38:10< fabi> LordBob-desk: I still suffer from a bug that doesn't cause a crash but leads just to no rendering of the buttons at all.
20130410 15:38:18< alushnikov> Crab_: I've participated in GSoC last year with Natural User Interface Group and worked on community core vision 2.0
20130410 15:38:34< Crab_> alushnikov: some mentors that I know had up to 3.
20130410 15:38:47< alushnikov> Crab_: There were two students working on the same project.
20130410 15:38:54< LordBob-desk> Fabi: damn :(
20130410 15:38:55< alushnikov> Crab_: But just one person really mentored
20130410 15:39:09< LordBob-desk> Fabi: I hope it doesn't cause too much trouble
20130410 15:39:39< alushnikov> Crab_: Nevertheless it shouldn't be a problem if you have enough people to list as mentors ;)
20130410 15:40:15< Crab_> alushnikov: depends. not everyone of the developers is interested in the AI :)
20130410 15:41:09< alushnikov> Crab_: If you will have time to mentor several students - that should be ok :)
20130410 15:42:06< Crab_> alushnikov: It depends on the students. E.g. I had a returning student last year (who knew his way around), and help from our users (who wanted something that student had to code :)) )
20130410 15:42:32< alushnikov> Crab_: hehe :)
20130410 15:43:03< alushnikov> Crab_: Hey, could you find me in skype so we don't trash irc?
20130410 15:43:14< Crab_> alushnikov: we have a lot of people creating scenarios/campaigns for wesnoth, and they like to see bugs fixed, and new things available.
20130410 15:43:46< Crab_> alushnikov: it's actually better to trash irc at this point, since some of my answers can benefit other potential students
20130410 15:44:02< alushnikov> Crab_: Okay
20130410 15:44:24< alushnikov> Crab_: I'm just being curious, wanted to ask you where do you work except for wesnoth :)))
20130410 15:44:32< Crab_> alushnikov: google
20130410 15:44:48< alushnikov> Crab_: Wow, really?)
20130410 15:44:55< alushnikov> Crab_: Cool
20130410 15:45:05< alushnikov> Crab_: What's your job?
20130410 15:45:41< Crab_> alushnikov: software engineer, of course. But it all started as a GSoC student for Wesnoth in 2009 :)
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20130410 16:19:11< dragos> Hello everyone 
20130410 16:19:27< dragos> Crab_: I've just responded to your email
20130410 16:20:41< Crab_> dragos: hello! yes, I see. reading..
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20130410 16:27:12< Crab_> dragos: a good way to start would be reading ( http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Customizing_AI_in_Wesnoth_1.8#how_AI_works.2C_a_short_developer-oriented_overview  , then find a place in the source which does attack evaluation
20130410 16:27:29< Crab_> dragos: in http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth/trunk/src/ai/default/attack.cpp double attack_analysis::rating(double aggression, const readonly_context& ai_obj) const
20130410 16:27:49< Crab_> dragos: the main formula looks like double value = chance_to_kill*target_value - avg_losses*(1.0-aggression);
20130410 16:29:03< Crab_> and the attacks are done one-by-one, chosen by code in http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth/trunk/src/ai/testing/aspect_attacks.cpp
20130410 16:29:48< Crab_> also http://wiki.wesnoth.org/WhyWritingAWesnothAIIsHard might be a good reading (albeit it's old and purely philosophical)
20130410 16:31:05< dragos> Crab_: Ok, I'll start reading what you suggested
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20130410 16:35:14< Crab_> dragos: also see http://wiki.wesnoth.org/General_RCA_AI_Howto and http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Lua_AI_Howto  .    LuaAI is probably the best way to get information from the C++ ai code to lua code (where you can use lua code to log things/display labels on map/etc)
20130410 16:36:04< Crab_> dragos: so, you can have a C++ function 'inside the AI with access to all info that AI knows', and you can make a result of this function accessible from lua via LuaAI (so you can run it from an in-game command-line)
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20130410 16:37:20< Crab_> dragos: so, if you'll try to make that demo patch in C++, you can use LuaAI to help you display it on map (e.g. create a luaAI C++ function that would 'rate' a X,Y hex, and code a small lua function to call it for each hex or unit)
20130410 16:39:19< dragos> Crab_: I understand I will read the articles and start working, I will message you my progress. Thanks a lot !
20130410 16:39:22< Crab_> dragos: also take a look at http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth/trunk/src/resources.hpp - it has all the data structures that represent the current state of game (e.g. map, unit list, etc)
20130410 16:39:55< Crab_> dragos: also take a look at http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth/trunk/src/ai/contexts.hpp - it has some helper functions - in particular see virtual double power_projection(const map_location& loc, const move_map& dstsrc) -  it is an example of a 'analysis of a map'
20130410 16:40:57< Crab_> dragos: ok, great. We should talk again once you'll have questions, about the project or the demo patch. feel free to mail me, as well.
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20130410 17:31:10< flix> Hello, I'm Felix, is somebody here who could answer me some questions about Summer of Code?
20130410 17:33:48< zookeeper> if there isn't, then sooner or later there will be. just ask the questions and wait...
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20130410 17:36:28< Crab_> flix: yes, just asking questions is a good way to go.
20130410 17:37:05< Crab_> flix: I can help you about the AI projects, or about the multiplayer campaign support project, or about gsoc in general.
20130410 17:37:10< Crab_> so, ask
20130410 17:37:27< mattsc> anonymissimus: I've added an SUF to the Healer Support Micro AI in the AI-demos add-on.  As expected, it was very simple.
20130410 17:37:57< mattsc> I have not done my git checkout yet though and at this point I am going to wait until the move to github is done.
20130410 17:38:17< mattsc> If you want to use it before then, here's the diff: https://github.com/mattsc/Wesnoth-AI-Demos/commit/54701ad73e29816b437fe9585091b77e0ef13f04
20130410 17:39:10< mattsc> You can use that in your local copy (same files in /data/ai/micro_ais).  Or you could commit it.  :)
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20130410 17:44:01< flix> [SoC] thank you! I'm kind of evaluating for which projects I could apply for. And I'm really interested in the Idea "AI: Implement a 'total defense' strategy". The thing is that I've never programmed in C++ so far. But I study Computer Science and am quite familiar with AI techniques though. Additionally I wanted to learn C++ over the summer anyway. So my question is if you think I would have some chances to be accepted. I really don't want to 'waste' time
20130410 17:45:12< Crab_> flix: there are always chances to be accepted - the application process has just begin. I'd say that the 'recruitment' idea has higher chances, for you, because it requires less C++ 
20130410 17:46:13< Crab_> flix: for the recruitment project, you'll be mostly creating your own code from scratch. for the AI defense project, you'll frequently have to deal with a big mass of existing code.
20130410 17:46:33< Crab_> flix: and depending on the C++ reading skills, that might take time.
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20130410 17:46:55< mattsc> flix, Crab_: IMO, the challenge of the 'total defense' project is not the coding
20130410 17:47:16< Crab_> mattsc: yes. but to solve that challenge you need to move the coding parts out of the way.
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20130410 17:47:35< Crab_> mattsc: so, if you know C++ you can concentrate on the hard part, otherwise you'll have more problems.
20130410 17:47:36< mattsc> That's true.  I should have said 'main challenge'.
20130410 17:48:45< Crab_> recruitment has a lot of algorithm things, as well.. but it just can be coded from scratch, which is way easier from the coding side of things
20130410 17:49:24< flix> Crab: I see. At first glance the recruitment idea seemed more complex for me... But I get you point
20130410 17:50:10< Crab_> flix: also, recruitment is easier in that its current output is more or less a list of strings, like "recruit archer, archer, fighter"
20130410 17:50:41< Crab_> (it can get fancier if you want to recruit on particular x,y hexes, but current recruitment doesn't bother with that)
20130410 17:51:04< Crab_> flix: and for ai defense, the output would be a mix of moves and attacks, which has a lot more options.
20130410 17:51:57< Crab_> flix: Also, in order to have a chance of getting accepted, you need to compile wesnoth and submit at least 1-2 patches, as well (can be unrelated to project, just some bugfixes from bugs.wesnoth.org). we'll help if there'll be questions.
20130410 17:52:30< Crab_> it's usually possible to figure out some 1-liners in there, at least as of now.
20130410 17:53:19< Crab_> you can try to fix 1-2 small bugs to see if it's hard enough for you
20130410 17:53:45< Crab_> but it's a really good way to learn C++ over the summer (if you know the basics already or know another programming language)
20130410 17:54:26< flix> Crab: Okay, thank you so far! I'll consider doing it over the next days. Can I somewhere read how AI recruiting works in BfW right now? When I've played BfW I never payed to much attension what exactly the AI is recruiting
20130410 17:57:01< Crab_> flix: reading source is easiest, it's small enough. see void recruitment_phase::execute() in http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/wesnoth/trunk/src/ai/testing/ca.cpp
20130410 17:57:18< flix> Crab: great thanks!
20130410 17:58:33< Crab_> flix: it's reasonably stupid, like "recruit some scouts if necessary for villages; then, get a list of all possible units, blacklist some of them that are not good, and recruit a random one"
20130410 17:58:44< Crab_> so it's rather easy to improve
20130410 17:59:17< Crab_> note that each unit has a 'usage' string attached, and a scenario author can tell what units should be recruited by this 'usage' string.
20130410 17:59:54< flix> Crab: Okay thanks for now, I will read the source and ask later more questions ;)
20130410 18:00:00< Crab_> great! bye.
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20130410 18:00:07< flix> bye
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20130410 18:01:48< kosmos> Hello everyone, Could you help me please, I'm trying download repository, but I'm always getting "error: Connection reset by ….."
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20130410 18:05:11< AI0867> kosmos: the sourceforge one?
20130410 18:06:49< AI0867> this is unfortunately a fairly common problem with large git repositories and somewhat unstable connections. There should be a tarball somewhere that you can download with wget -c, but there should be a new repository (that is incompatible with the old one due to history rewrites) somewhere this week
20130410 18:07:29< mattsc> flix: also note that there are some other recruiting AIs out there (some of them even in mainline, although generally not written in C++)
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20130410 18:09:01< kosmos> I see
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20130410 18:27:09< flix> mattsc: thanks!
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20130410 19:57:34< samprit> Hi! I am having trouble building the project in Visual Studio 2012.
20130410 19:57:52< samprit> It is saying unknown compiler version.
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20130410 20:19:50< PL_kolek> Hello all!
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20130410 20:33:12< anonymissimus> mattsc: okay thanks
20130410 20:33:36< anonymissimus> mattsc: I'm not going to use it < 1.11.3 anyway, so you commit
20130410 20:34:00< anonymissimus> (I need players to be able to use it)
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20130410 20:35:53< anonymissimus> samprit:  you have much better chances with MSVC9 or 10
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20130410 21:09:41< ptalbot> Hi
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20130410 21:27:11< Trademark> I see that mordante is not here atm, so does someone knows about the addon server (status since the last year ?) ?
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20130410 21:47:12< mattsc> anonymissimus: sounds good
20130410 21:47:37< mattsc> on a different note, I am not sure that I understood exactly what you want for the retreat-to-villages option
20130410 21:48:05< mattsc> Do you want to use the Protect Unit MAI and add that to it, or would you prefer a different solution?
20130410 21:49:09< mattsc> Either way, I will likely add an "improved goto" Micro AI at some point, as I think that could come in handy in a lot of different situations.
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20130410 21:58:52< anonymissimus> mattsc: I almost finished a new version of my force_to_heal code, it uses move_unit etc
20130410 21:59:10< anonymissimus> so completely wml scripted and combinable with any micro ai
20130410 21:59:33< anonymissimus> mattsc: I was wondering about how one could calculate the "safety" of a position
20130410 21:59:45< anonymissimus> be it a village, or something else
20130410 22:00:46< anonymissimus> get all adjacent tiles (there's helper.adjacent_tiles whcih iterates, but the engine has a function returning a set IIRC, that can be translated to lua)
20130410 22:01:42< anonymissimus> then iterate over all units, consider only the ones where wesnoth.is_enemy return true
20130410 22:02:02< anonymissimus> call wesnoth.find_reach for all of them, look whether any of the adjacent tiles is in that saet
20130410 22:02:32< anonymissimus> if yes, remember that that hex is reachable by an enemy, count the number of reachable adjacent tiles in the end
20130410 22:03:16< anonymissimus> the behavior of protect_unit looks as if you are already doing something like that ?
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20130410 22:04:00< mattsc> anonymissimus: re. your force_to_heal code: okay, sounds good.  I'll still go ahead with the Goto MAI for my own reasons then.
20130410 22:04:16< anonymissimus> the location_set class can probably help or speed up with the location operations
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20130410 22:04:56< mattsc> Re. combining Micro AIs: I am going to set it up so that all Micro AIs can be combined.  I need some information from Crab_ before deciding how to go ahead with that.
20130410 22:05:39< mattsc> I was waiting for the external CA code to be done which would make this trivial, but if that isn't going to happen soon, there are other ways of doing it as well.
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20130410 22:07:14< mattsc> Concerning the safety a position, there are many different ways of doing this (and almost all the AIs use one version or another of it, depending on when I coded them).
20130410 22:08:25< mattsc> The current version of Fred (Freelands Rush AI) can do full counter-attack calculations for all positions a unit can move to.  That's the most complex version I currently have, but there are many intermediate steps possible.
20130410 22:10:48< anonymissimus> mattsc: in my campaign I mostly use "predefined" heal postions, that could work out well
20130410 22:11:10< anonymissimus> so you could allow passing a set of village positions where to heal
20130410 22:11:28< anonymissimus> and only use those, it prevent choosing stupid locations easily
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20130410 22:12:17< mattsc> anonymissimus: yes, that's essentially what Fred does in its "Retreat injured units" actions.
20130410 22:12:56< mattsc> The problem with the code of that AI is that it is still in constant flux and not at all optimized.
20130410 22:13:46< mattsc> Since I throw out at least half of what I am trying because it just doesn't work as expected (the AI behavior I mean, not the code itself), I don't do any optimizing other than what's needed to make things run fast enough for testing.
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20130410 22:16:31< mattsc> In other words, the code's a mess that I will clean up when I actually have an AI that does what I want it to do.
20130410 22:19:03< mattsc> anonymissimus: oh, also, use the current version on github if you're looking at that.  The last release on the add-ons server is way outdated.
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20130410 23:36:43< muditjaju_> hello everyone :)
20130410 23:39:23< Espreon> Hello.
20130410 23:40:46< alushnikov> Good night, developers!
20130410 23:41:04< Upthorn> hrm, having trouble updating my SVN code. has the github move already happened?
20130410 23:41:09< alushnikov> Where can I get latest source for wesnoth?
20130410 23:41:15< Upthorn> err, working copy
20130410 23:42:54< thunderstruck> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/WesnothRepository
20130410 23:43:06< Upthorn> or have I simply failed at setting up my ssh tunnel?
20130410 23:43:22< alushnikov> Is it? Because you were speaking about the github...
20130410 23:43:49< Upthorn> oh, it moved from gna to sourceforge git
20130410 23:44:01< Upthorn> that makes sense.
20130410 23:45:00< alushnikov> I was also a bit confused, because in compile guide you referenced visual studio 10 and there are no projectfiles for it
20130410 23:47:33< Upthorn> I probably don't have commit access on the sourceforge repo
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20130410 23:54:43< Ivanovic> Upthorn: the move to github is in progress
20130410 23:54:53< Ivanovic> esr was working on fixing the history, not sure what the status is there
20130410 23:55:10< Upthorn> I also can't get sourceforge to recognize my ssh key
20130410 23:55:16< Ivanovic> so yes, right now we are kind of in a flux state
20130410 23:55:34< Ivanovic> and i got to head off to bed now, n8
20130410 23:55:46< Upthorn> it says "failed whitespace check" but there is literally no whitespace in my submission form.
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--- Log closed Thu Apr 11 00:00:53 2013