--- Log opened Mon Apr 15 00:00:01 2013
--- Day changed Mon Apr 15 2013
20130415 00:00:01< shadowm> Ivanovic: You will eventually have to get used to uploading 400 MiB or so to baldras for every release.
20130415 00:00:15< Ivanovic> shadowm: for me 400MB uploads are not a problem
20130415 00:00:36< Ivanovic> am doing this stuff already for ages, okay, only 250MB but that twice
20130415 00:00:37< shadowm> Hm.
20130415 00:00:44< shadowm> Okay, but essentially you are saying that baldras is slow for downloads.
20130415 00:00:50< Ivanovic> no
20130415 00:00:53< shadowm> (Download from baldras' side, upload from your side.)
20130415 00:01:04< Ivanovic> what i am saying is that esrs internet connection might have a bad upload bandwidth
20130415 00:01:24< shadowm> I had been operating under the assumption that his connection was extremely good.
20130415 00:01:30< Ivanovic> and if you only have say 100KB/s upload it will takes ages to get several GB transmitted
20130415 00:01:36< shadowm> I thought he had said something on the matter before.
20130415 00:01:50< shadowm> Ivanovic: Yes, yes, I can do the maths.
20130415 00:02:12< shadowm> Well, no I can't do the maths, butI can do an approximation.
20130415 00:02:33< shadowm> Like when I had to upload 200 MiB over this shitty mobile broadband connection.
20130415 00:04:56< Ivanovic> anyway, time for me to head off to bed, n8
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20130415 00:57:13< kelpy> hey, is there a map of the codebase anywhere?
20130415 00:57:45< kelpy> like, if Im looking for something should I just search until I find what im looking for?
20130415 00:57:58< Espreon> I think devdocs.wesnoth.org has something like a "map".
20130415 00:59:33< kelpy> thanks Espreon
20130415 01:10:05< Espreon> Yup.
20130415 01:14:04< kelpy> okay, new question
20130415 01:14:28< kelpy> working on the "more powerful village naming" easycodingproject
20130415 01:14:45< kelpy> but, playing the game, I dont see the villages as having names
20130415 01:15:08< kelpy> where are village names used?
20130415 01:21:14< shadowm> When you create a local or networked MP game using one of the Random Map generators.
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20130415 04:28:42< kelpy> hey, does anyone have any suggestions on navigating the codebase?
20130415 04:28:51< kelpy> Im currently using grep to find functions
20130415 04:28:55< kelpy> and it seems inefficient
20130415 04:29:13< Gambit> Unfortunately that's the best way I know. :(
20130415 04:30:15< kelpy> -sigh-
20130415 04:31:13< Gambit> Apart from a fancy IDE that turns things into links.
20130415 04:31:48< mattsc> kelpy: in Xcode on a Mac you can right-click on functions and often get to their definitions or usages.  But grep is sometimes easier anyway, at least for me.
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20130415 05:34:13< Samual> [22:29:07pm] <kelpy> Im currently using grep to find functions
20130415 05:34:30< Samual> kelpy: If you use something like "Geany" or such (really any more advanced IDE),
20130415 05:34:39< Samual> you can look up tags and symbols easily 
20130415 05:35:03< Samual> so you can find usage of variables, functions, etc by right clicking and then selecting the find function in the IDE
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20130415 08:17:50< LordBob_> fendrin: ping ?
20130415 08:18:53< Jetrel> LordBob_:  oh hey, it's that guy!
20130415 08:19:03< Jetrel> Hey there. :)
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20130415 08:19:03< LordBob_> Oh, hey het
20130415 08:19:07< LordBob_> Jet
20130415 08:19:50< LordBob_> How are you ? Is it daytime yet over there ?
20130415 08:19:52< Jetrel> Alas, I'm nearly off to bed, but gee, if you're actually into this IRC thing, I might chat during your early evening hours (i.e. when I'm awake)
20130415 08:20:09< Jetrel> it's about 1:00
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20130415 08:20:35< LordBob_> Heh, I've started to dwell here recently; makes things easier when discussing UI artwork with the devs
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20130415 08:21:11< LordBob_> So yeah, We'll likely cross ways in the early evening (it's about 8:00 am here)
20130415 08:21:18< Jetrel> Yeah - I've been absent for a while despite heavy involvement in the project, because I'm a sucker for online arguments.
20130415 08:22:05< Jetrel> When I realized I was spending more time in #wesnoth-dev bickering than actually working on the project, I picked "working on the project" instead.
20130415 08:22:10< LordBob_> I can relate to that: sometimes, the chat window simply gets in the way of the actual drawing
20130415 08:22:34< Jetrel> I've since gotten better about that, but I held off for a while during the heart of my hiatus.
20130415 08:23:04< Jetrel> Since I didn't have time to contribute then anyways.
20130415 08:23:36< LordBob_> While we're at it, then, do you know if I would trample any feet by picking up the UI facelift project ?
20130415 08:23:49< Jetrel> Probably not
20130415 08:24:09< Jetrel> How ... uh .. deep of a facelift are we talking here?
20130415 08:24:36< LordBob_> In all likeliness, cosmetic for the most part, I think
20130415 08:24:42< Jetrel> Right...
20130415 08:24:57< Jetrel> Uhm...  are we talking a total overhaul of how buttons/windows and such look?
20130415 08:25:08< Jetrel> Even if it's largely the same, "touching" most stuff at least?
20130415 08:25:37< LordBob_> Not necessarily
20130415 08:26:18< Jetrel> I mention this because a few people have poked at that, like West and such - none of them got remotely close to done, though.
20130415 08:26:23< LordBob_> I don't mind touching most stuff, but buttons for instance do their job well enough, and the new ones we've been creating for the editor are still in the same aspect
20130415 08:26:51< Jetrel> Yeah - overall I think the blue-and-gold thing is pretty tasteful.
20130415 08:27:25< Jetrel> If nothing else, the only complaint I'd level is that some of the bits of art are "noisy".
20130415 08:28:51< LordBob_> Actually, I'd like to pick up things where West left them, starting with fresher UI windows, and maybe the general UI frame
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20130415 08:29:07< Jetrel> aha
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20130415 08:29:55< LordBob_> (by "noisy", do you mean the pixelated noise in some of the golden / blusih tones, or do you mean that they are flashy and catch the eye more than they should ?
20130415 08:30:15< Jetrel> The first - as though there's been some jpeg artifacting or something
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20130415 08:30:51< LordBob_> Ah. Shame, I thought that was part of the design and went as far as to introduce artificial moise in my own buttons ^^;;
20130415 08:30:59< LordBob_> *noise
20130415 08:31:11< Jetrel> heh
20130415 08:31:28< Jetrel> Well, I don't really care, so no biggie.
20130415 08:32:40< LordBob_> Good. I might turn to that once the commission and current editor artwork are done
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20130415 08:35:49< LordBob_> Jetrel: it is time for me to get some other work done. Hopefully we'll be able to chat later
20130415 08:35:56< Jetrel> Right-o
20130415 08:36:00 * Jetrel tips hat
20130415 08:36:09 * LordBob_ waves
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20130415 10:03:11< vultraz> fendrin: wow the editor looks fantastic in that screenshot you posted on the forums :D
20130415 10:12:48< thunderstruck> Could someone tell me which classes/source files are responsible for evaluating the correctness of WML?
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20130415 10:16:30< fendrin> thunderstruck: none, wml isn't checked for correctness at a central code section.
20130415 10:16:37< fendrin> vultraz: :-)
20130415 10:16:42< fendrin> vultraz: I have a new one.
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20130415 10:25:23< fendrin> vultraz: http://imagebin.org/254092
20130415 10:29:13< vultraz> fendrin: woww :OO
20130415 10:30:53< fendrin> vultraz: All work in progress of course. 
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20130415 10:33:02< vultraz> fendrin: what're the row of blank buttons to the top left supposed to be for?
20130415 10:33:57< thunderstruck> fendrin, maybe you could give me a brief overview of the correctness checking? Is every part of the program which uses WML checks for correctness itself? 
20130415 10:34:32< fendrin> vultraz: They are to be filled dynamically. Say you select the "Select terrain" tool. Then those buttons will act as cut, copy, paste, invert selection and select none.
20130415 10:34:56< fendrin> thunderstruck: Yes, the lua engine does some checking on certain wml commands it controls.
20130415 10:35:47< fendrin> thunderstruck: But every wml command that is handled in c++ code is checked (sometimes it isn't checked at all) in the class itself.
20130415 10:36:33< thunderstruck> fendrin, and that C++ code uses stuff inside serialization/?
20130415 10:37:40< fendrin> thunderstruck: No, serialization only checks for syntatic errors. This is done once during loading and at a central place. But you asked about correctness, which involves the semantic as well, imho.
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20130415 10:38:06< vultraz> ah ok
20130415 10:38:10< thunderstruck> fendrin, ah, yes. I should have been more specific.
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20130415 10:39:11< fendrin> thunderstruck: But, there are some efforts to store the schema of wml tags in wml and check against them. I guess AI0867 is the person who can tell you the most about it.
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20130415 10:40:25< thunderstruck> fendrin, I'm not sure if I need that for my proposal for gsoc, but thanks for letting me know.
20130415 10:41:01< fendrin> thunderstruck: Have a look at the data/schema.cfg file if you are interested.
20130415 10:41:57< thunderstruck> fendrin, is this file used by a parser?
20130415 10:42:16< fendrin> thunderstruck: It is more of a validator.
20130415 10:43:32< fendrin> thunderstruck: You know, a parser translates between linear structures and tree like. But at the level of validation we already have a parsed tree.
20130415 10:47:26< fendrin> vultraz: http://imagebin.org/254036 The mockup from Lord BoB after which I created the screenshot.
20130415 10:52:29< thunderstruck> fendrin, if the gsoc project, multiplayer campaign support, is aimed to make life easier for UMC devs and players playing MP campaigns, do you think it is a good idea to ask them on the forums what they want to get? E.g. how to manage MP campaign saving/restoring from the end users perpsective.
20130415 10:53:19< fendrin> thunderstruck: Sure. It also makes sense to ask me. I maintain the only MP campaign in mainline.
20130415 10:54:48< thunderstruck> fendrin, well, I ask you this question, because I noticed your involment 
20130415 10:54:55< thunderstruck> in that
20130415 10:55:23< fendrin> thunderstruck: One of the biggest problems is the lack of difficult level support.
20130415 10:55:23< thunderstruck> involvement*
20130415 10:56:02< fendrin> thunderstruck: And the fact that we do not have a gui that supports what we need.
20130415 10:56:17< thunderstruck> fendrin, I know. As Crab suggested I implemented a simple SP campaign, then turned into MP campaign and then enabled difficulties.
20130415 10:56:49< thunderstruck> fendrin, it was not a nice thing, both from the developers and players perspectives.
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20130415 11:04:02< thunderstruck> fendrin, what would make more sense: adding a new top level tag [campaign_mp] or to enable the current [campaign] tag to have a new bool attribute 'multiplayer'?
20130415 11:05:07< fendrin> thunderstruck: I would go with the multiplayer attribute.
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20130415 11:16:37< vultraz> hullo LordBob_ 
20130415 11:17:00< LordBob_> hi Vultraz
20130415 11:19:59< vultraz> I see you and fendrin have been busy while I was internet-less
20130415 11:20:13< fendrin> LordBob_: hi
20130415 11:20:37< fendrin> LordBob_:  http://imagebin.org/254092
20130415 11:21:31< LordBob_> Vultraz: yup. we've discussed many things, but maybe we didn't ended so far from where we hadstarted :p
20130415 11:21:50< LordBob_> Hi Fendrin. Is that a mock-up, or an actual screenshot ?
20130415 11:22:13< fendrin> LordBob_: I am not able to do mock-ups. 
20130415 11:22:48< fendrin> LordBob_: I know how to make screenshots with gimp :-)
20130415 11:22:49< LordBob_> ^^;; so it's actually faster for you to directly code things
20130415 11:22:54< fendrin> indeed
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20130415 11:23:30< LordBob_> then you might find more inspiration ovr here: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=38636&start=15#p551578
20130415 11:23:36< LordBob_> *over
20130415 11:24:42< LordBob_> I've given this tool-specific option some more thought and there's still one thing that bothers me
20130415 11:25:52< fendrin> LordBob_: Wow. You have been quite productive.
20130415 11:26:49< LordBob_> Regarding the selector tool options, are actions such as select all/none/invert sel restricted to when the selector is the currently active tool, or can they be pressed at any time regardless of the tool (provided that a selection exists)
20130415 11:26:51< LordBob_> ?
20130415 11:27:23< LordBob_> Fendrin: heh, I can't code but I'm at home when it comes to moving pixels around ^^
20130415 11:27:48< thunderstruck> fendrin, I am thinking to implement that attribute now and add [campaign] tag to my MP campain and later on, if everything goes right, try to enable some basic functionality using 'difficulties' attribute in [campaign] tag. Do you think it is a good idea in order to get myself more familiar with what I might be doing if I succeed with my proposal? Or is it too complex and I should rather focus more on my p
20130415 11:27:48< thunderstruck> roposal?
20130415 11:29:05< fendrin> LordBob_: The later. But we do not necessarily have to show the buttons when not in selection mode.
20130415 11:30:21< fendrin> thunderstruck: You should get a little familiar with the code before you finish your proposal. Thus I think starting with the difficulties is fine.
20130415 11:30:51< fendrin> LordBob_: Remember that all utils are also menu items and maybe bound to a hotkey as well.
20130415 11:32:07< LordBob_> Fendrin: I differ; if we create a situation where the button is easier repalced with a different control, then there's little point in having a button at all
20130415 11:32:18< LordBob_> *replaced
20130415 11:32:59< fendrin> LordBob_: Well, that is true for the tools themselves. You do not need the buttons. Every tool can be bound to a hotkey.
20130415 11:33:03< LordBob_> I was in the idea that the user might want for instance to use selection controls while using the brush
20130415 11:33:56< LordBob_> and so, having to make extra clicks just to get out of brush mode and back again might be a pain
20130415 11:34:05< fendrin> Might be. We can consider to have the selection utils around all time and just gray them when no selection is done.
20130415 11:34:52< fendrin> Okay, I just compiled and the buttons which change their purpose on context work. That means we can do what we planed.
20130415 11:35:21< LordBob_> That's the conclusion I came to. I which case they might just as well join the common use actions in the upper bar, and then we're left with only the brus tip size buttons as tool-specific options
20130415 11:36:16< LordBob_> That's good news, but now we need to check which options will find their way in there
20130415 11:37:10< LordBob_> Based on the current keyboard shortcut list, I don't see this many aside from the brush tips and selection commands. Did you have additional controls in mind ?
20130415 11:40:38< fendrin> LordBob_: There is a switch fg/bg action for the selected palette item.
20130415 11:41:21< fendrin> Soundsources will have a on and off button.
20130415 11:43:23< fendrin> Another action to define named areas. (Selection Tool)
20130415 11:43:39< LordBob_> So the switch bg/fg would apply for every palette-based tool, i.e. brush, fill, unit, village, item, ... Am I forgetting any ?
20130415 11:44:14< LordBob_> Or does only terrain support background/foreground ?
20130415 11:44:16< fendrin> brush and fill. 
20130415 11:44:20< fendrin> Yes.
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20130415 11:46:18< LordBob_> fendrin; what's the difference between the "define named areas" and "labels" actions ?
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20130415 11:47:00< fendrin> LordBob_: An area is a collection of hex fields. A label is just a text bound to a single hex.
20130415 11:47:58< fendrin> LordBob_: The area is not user visible. It is used by the scenario coder to do some stuff. Maybe spawn monsters when the player enters the area.
20130415 11:47:58< LordBob_> Okay.
20130415 11:49:11< LordBob_> Fendrin: another question: what's the soundsource function exactly ?
20130415 11:49:18< fendrin> LordBob_: Code wise the area is just a wrapper around a SLF (Standard Location Filter)
20130415 11:49:28< vultraz> LordBob_: places a [soundsource]
20130415 11:49:49< LordBob_> Vultraz: ...and ? What does that do ?
20130415 11:49:50< vultraz> which is sound emanating from a specific location that dims as you scroll away
20130415 11:49:55 * LordBob_ is a compelte editor noob
20130415 11:50:03< LordBob_> *complete
20130415 11:50:18< fendrin> LordBob_: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/InterfaceActionsWML#.5Bsound_source.5D
20130415 11:50:44< zookeeper> sound sources are ambient sound generators
20130415 11:50:45< fendrin> LordBob_: Soundsources don't have anything to do with the editor. At least not until I implement the tool.
20130415 11:51:01< zookeeper> sounds (usually looping) emitted by some part of the map
20130415 11:51:05< LordBob_> Thanks guys ^^
20130415 11:51:22< zookeeper> (which are almost completely unused in mainline atm)
20130415 11:52:07< LordBob_> Fendrin: so, in other words, there aren't any existing sound functions yet in the editor, but you're in no shortage of potential additions ?
20130415 11:53:26< vultraz> yeah, they're one of the lesser-used features
20130415 11:53:31< fendrin> LordBob_: Well, I think the soundsource tool is enough. But now as you ask, a playlist editor would be cool.
20130415 11:54:53< LordBob_> Fendrin: could be. Where I'm going to is that we currently don't have this many tool-specific options 
20130415 11:55:51< LordBob_> But you seem to have many ideas for new functions, or editor capacities 
20130415 11:55:52< vultraz> fendrin: if we had a playlist function, how would we include music from music dependency addons?
20130415 11:56:24< fendrin> vultraz: It can search the music folder of addons.
20130415 11:56:57< vultraz> ah ok
20130415 11:57:18< fendrin> LordBob_: I think that 4 or 5 general purpose buttons are enough. That gives me some room to play with. If no tool will have that much we can disable them again.
20130415 11:57:35< zookeeper> yet some of that music will not actually be available when you run your scenario.
20130415 11:57:57< fendrin> zookeeper: Yeah, same with terrain, units and other stuff.
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20130415 11:58:57< LordBob_> Fendrin: currently we're toping at 6 for the brush, so indeed a total 10 spots for tool-specific buttons will be enough
20130415 11:59:30< fendrin> LordBob_: Well, the brush can be a permanent installment.
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20130415 12:01:13< LordBob_> Fendrin: it can, but making them optional would free up an entire-row for other tools. Might be useful if you wish to add WML-related functionalities in the future (I think you did mention something like that yesterday)
20130415 12:01:57< LordBob_> Anyway, we're not in the future yet. Do you have a favortie among the mock-ups ?
20130415 12:03:15< LordBob_> *favorite, dammit. I really need to pay attention to what I'm typing
20130415 12:03:29< fendrin> LordBob_: The first one.
20130415 12:04:30< fendrin> LordBob_: My plan was to do it like: Have the 10 tools below the map, like we do already. The brushes permanently below. No more stuff there, the palette follows.
20130415 12:04:49< fendrin> LordBob_: Everything static and dynamic can go in the additonal top bar.
20130415 12:05:03< fendrin> LordBob_: Or beside the map.
20130415 12:05:59< LordBob_> fendrin: if possible, I'd put only map controls beside them minimap, if that's what your last line implied
20130415 12:06:09< fendrin> yes
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20130415 12:07:27< LordBob_> so yes, I would have permanent buttons there with zoom in/out/1:1 and grid.
20130415 12:08:01< fendrin> LordBob_: resize and flip can go to the right of the topbar, like in my screenshot.
20130415 12:09:11< fendrin> LordBob_: selection utils can go to the left after undo/redo. Between are the general purpose buttons.
20130415 12:09:51< LordBob_> in this case, would you group them with the other map controls, or have them standalones with the zoom/grid controls vertical on the side of or horizntal beneath the map ?
20130415 12:10:17< LordBob_> * them = resize+flip
20130415 12:11:00< fendrin> They would appear a little bit apart. At least the sidebar border line is between the two sets.
20130415 12:17:42< fendrin> LordBob_: The 30 buttons, did one of your sets include disabled versions? The one I fond on disc does not. 
20130415 12:18:07< LordBob_> not sure it did. let me check
20130415 12:18:40< LordBob_> yup, it did. Both diabled and diabled-pressed
20130415 12:18:45< LordBob_> *disabled
20130415 12:18:48< fendrin> LordBob_: And those overlay images. I think that I can use active versions for every button, even the non checkbox/radiobox ones.
20130415 12:19:18< LordBob_> okay, I'll include them when I produce the final images
20130415 12:19:19< fendrin> LordBob_: And I could use disabled versions, because the gray conversion fails on the white icons.
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20130415 12:20:20< LordBob_> Heh, there's still quite a lot of work on that UI. Maybe I'll put it on hold for now until we have a final plan for the general overlay of the screen
20130415 12:21:16< LordBob_> Once we are certain of sizes and the finite list of required icons, I'll get back to it and produce a high-res set
20130415 12:22:18< LordBob_> And maybe also start to work on a revised overal UI frame: since we're adding new parts anyway, now might be a good time to make some concepts that will be used later for the game UI as well
20130415 12:22:44< fendrin> LordBob_: Indeed.
20130415 12:22:45< LordBob_> oh, and I meant general _layout_ of the screen
20130415 12:22:55< fendrin> understood
20130415 12:23:13< fendrin> LordBob_: About the action overlay icons.
20130415 12:23:36< fendrin> Let's say that we have a button with the overlay icon for paste.
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20130415 12:23:54< fendrin> I could go and add the icon to the menu item as well.
20130415 12:24:37< fendrin> Thus the user recognizes that both actions match.
20130415 12:24:51< fendrin> Do you understand/agree?
20130415 12:25:05< LordBob_> I do
20130415 12:25:53< LordBob_> Generaly speaking, this is precisely why it is better, and less work, to separate the base of buttons and the icons that go on top of them 
20130415 12:26:15< LordBob_> And also to create standardized sets of icons in different scales
20130415 12:26:27< fendrin> The problem is just that our 30 overlay icon size might make the menu entries  unusual sized.
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20130415 12:27:04< LordBob_> hence the plan to create also smaller icons
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20130415 12:27:54< LordBob_> And why I'd rather wait until we've acertained our needs before doing the actual work :)
20130415 12:29:19< fendrin> LordBob_: Okay I will just produce more screenshots with the art and code I have.
20130415 12:30:23< LordBob_> yeah. Let's work with placeholders for now
20130415 12:30:49< fendrin> no problem
20130415 12:31:09< LordBob_> when adjusting menu item icon sizes, a red square will do the job just as well ^^
20130415 12:35:27< fendrin> huh?
20130415 12:36:51< LordBob_> Sorry. What I meant is that, for now, you can use whichever placeholder you deem fit when doing the screenshots and generally preparing the code
20130415 12:37:48< LordBob_> For instance, since we were discussing adding icons next to the menu items, do it with a placeholder :)
20130415 12:38:10< LordBob_> Once we're sure of the size that best fits, I'll do the final picture
20130415 12:39:08< LordBob_> And now, I will leave you people so that I can fully dedicate myself to the thrilling experience if doing my taxes (weeeeeheeeeee)
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20130415 12:40:06< LordBob_> See you later... If taxes don't take away what's left of my sanity. :p
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20130415 12:55:17< vultraz> oh look Jetrel is here
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20130415 13:34:14< zlv> Question for Crab_ (if he would be here): what file connected with LOG_AI, WRN_AI streams
20130415 13:36:48< flix1> zlv: good question, I want to know it too :)
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20130415 13:42:27< Soliton> zlv: stdout
20130415 13:42:51< Soliton> on windows there should be a stdout.txt somewhere.
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20130415 13:48:31< zlv> Soliton: I'm on Fedora. I think this streams are turned off
20130415 13:51:50< Soliton> ah, right. checkout the --log-debug=... parameter.
20130415 13:52:34< Soliton> like, --log-debug=ai is probably what you want or maybe --log-debug=ai/*.
20130415 13:53:23< Soliton> --log-debug=all if you want to get your terminal flooded.
20130415 13:55:25< zlv> Soliton: thank you, variant with ai/* is right
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20130415 14:58:46< flix1> Crab_, mattsc, anyone_who_is_interessted: I wrote down some Ideas for the GSoC AI Recruitment Idea: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/User:Flixx/GSoC_2013/Idea_AI_Recruitment:_Purposes
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20130415 15:26:38< mattsc> flix: I read over your page quickly once (not very carefully yet).  A couple quick comments:
20130415 15:27:25< mattsc> Assigning a purpose to a unit (or marking it to be used for a certain purpose, if you want) can already be done.  That's what the role= key is for (among other things)
20130415 15:28:07< mattsc> Or the [variables] tag inside [unit].  So you wouldn't have to worry about that part, it's already there.
20130415 15:28:42< mattsc> I agree with what you write at the very end, that the hard part is not assigning the purposes, but having the AI do something useful with it.
20130415 15:30:03< mattsc> As for recruiting itself (since you have this posted under the topic), Alarantalara has done a lot of work on a new recruitment strategy.
20130415 15:31:46< mattsc> You can find that at data/ai/lua/generic-recruit_engine.lua in trunk, or a (slightly) newer version in lua/generic-recruit_engine.lua in the AI-demos add-on.
20130415 15:31:46< flix> mattsc: can I see his work somewhere? Is it implemented yet?
20130415 15:32:04< mattsc> Just typoed it  Sorry, was slow looking up the dirs  :)
20130415 15:32:10< mattsc> *typed
20130415 15:32:17< flix> okay, thanks, np ;)
20130415 15:32:32< flix> I will have a look now
20130415 15:33:41< mattsc> flix: I know I am not really addressing your "purposes" idea with that, I don't have too much to say on that.  I think the idea is good in general, I just see the problem of the AI doing something with it once they are assigned.
20130415 15:34:30< mattsc> But again, to some extent, some of the Micro AIs and the other AIs in AI-demos are to some extent trying to do something along those lines.
20130415 15:34:56< mattsc> [I apologize for bringing up that add-on all the time, it's just what I know best.  :P ]
20130415 15:37:30< flix> mattsc: okay, seems that I have some research to do!
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20130415 16:24:35< Crab___> zlv: on linux the LOG_AI output goes to stderr, launch wesnoth from console and you'll see. on windows, it goes to a text file (named like stderr.txt)
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20130415 16:34:01< Crab___> flix: read your page. be sure to note that there are two use cases - when scenario creator controls most of things, and when we're playing using arbitrary units on arbitrary map (and don't have any hints from scenario author)
20130415 16:34:16< Crab___> flix: recruitment must be good enough in both cases, either with hints or without them.
20130415 16:36:00< vultraz> I found a small typo in DiD scenario 11, line 549. It says "by armies" when it should say "my armies"
20130415 16:37:05< zlv> Crab___, thanks
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20130415 17:18:54< flix> Crab__: okay, thank you for reading! About the two cases you mentioned: This is actually a question I wanted to ask you anyway about the SoC Recruitment Idea: Shall the improved Recruitment-Algorithms be better (harder to play against) or shall the recruitments become more configurable by a scenario author? I think this are two completely different things and there is a lot mixed up... But I guess the answer is both, though most of the Problems mentioned in
20130415 17:18:55< flix> Now for the case with no hints / arbitrary units and maps : I think the combat-analysis right now is working pretty well, doesn't it? So the current AI is actually good in finding the right units to combat. I see improvement possibilities in 1. analyzing the map better and 2. Counter-Recruiting Strategies. 
20130415 17:18:55< flix> For 1: This would include the Algorithm to find the most important hexes. Then a purpose_request could be set for this regions and the AI will recruit units that are good in this region. Also the purpose_requests could be updated when the AI can figure out where a fight goes on.
20130415 17:18:55< flix> For 2: This can easily be made by letting the AI only to recruit a few units in the first round (by setting purpose_request to 'save money' in my idea), and then the combat analysis will do the rest. This should be rather easy. The question is rather in which cases a AI should choose to go for a Counter-Recruiting-Strategy.
20130415 17:18:55< flix> Now the most important question for me: Should I stick with the purposes-idea and try improve it or do you think this is not a appropriate way to solve the problems and not worth a proposal? 
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20130415 17:20:55< flix> (hope I did't wrote too much ;), thanks for reading anyway, Crab_)
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20130415 20:20:12< Harm_> is it always this quiet here?
20130415 20:20:28< Anakonda> no
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20130415 20:21:16< Wooz> hello
20130415 20:21:39< Harm_> hi
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20130415 20:26:24< Harm_> are there always this many people on the channel, or is the summer of code atracting a lot of new people?
20130415 20:27:32< Wooz> I'm here for the gsoc. ^^
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20130415 20:35:23< seiC1n> I'm here for GSoC too :)
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20130415 20:40:02< Wooz> For what project are you interested in ?
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20130415 20:41:56< Harm_> meh, i'll have to read the source code first, most of them sound interesting
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20130415 20:49:26< Ivanovic> Harm_: the number is just a little higher than usual
20130415 20:49:38< Ivanovic> but there tend to be many people lurking in here, not saying anything for month
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20130415 21:09:31< razvan_florea> Hello!
20130415 21:09:52< razvan_florea> I'm here for GSoC projects
20130415 21:10:22< razvan_florea> I want to find out more information about those
20130415 21:11:12< Anakonda> did you check http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeIdeas
20130415 21:11:37< razvan_florea> yes
20130415 21:11:58< razvan_florea> i've already cloned and compiled the project
20130415 21:14:06< razvan_florea> It would be very helpful for me to speak with one of the mentors
20130415 21:14:25< lipkab> razvan_florea: None of them are here right now.
20130415 21:14:38< Anakonda> more helpful than with one who cant compile
20130415 21:14:55< razvan_florea> maybe they already have some ideas about what should i study to do a good application
20130415 21:14:56< lipkab> If you have any concrete questions, ask them and keep an eye on the logs.
20130415 21:15:37< lipkab> You can could also write a forum PM.
20130415 21:15:53< lipkab> s/can/
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20130415 21:17:33< Ivanovic> razvan_florea: the best way to get started is to have a look at the code
20130415 21:17:42< Ivanovic> in the area which actually interests you
20130415 21:18:01< Ivanovic> most likely by looking at the easy coding tasks (not sure if there is much left) or the bugtracker
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20130415 21:19:02< lipkab> Bonsoir boucman.
20130415 21:21:02< boucman> salut
20130415 21:21:49< razvan_florea> Ivanovic: Supposing I will fix some bugs, how can i submit the patch
20130415 21:22:22< Ivanovic> razvan_florea: boucman is the perfect contact for this
20130415 21:22:39< Ivanovic> that is: we are currently moving our repository to github, with this things will change
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20130415 21:22:59< Ivanovic> but right now the easiest way is to create a patch/diff against the code and add it to patches.wesnoth.org
20130415 21:23:20< boucman> what Ivanovic said :P
20130415 21:24:13< razvan_florea> ok
20130415 21:26:56< badola_> Hi all, I also wanted to contact the dev community for GSoC this year.
20130415 21:26:59< badola_> I want to work on the project Game_Engine:_Improve_Multiplayer_Campaign_Support.
20130415 21:27:29< thunderstruck> Is it going to be possible to use cloned repo from SF when the move to github will be made? If not, how can I save my branch then?
20130415 21:27:43< Harm_> heheh, wesnoth seems to be a popular choice for gsoc 
20130415 21:27:48< thunderstruck> s/save/move
20130415 21:28:06< badola_> wesnoth is one cool game, had been playing it since 2009. :)
20130415 21:28:07< Soliton> thunderstruck: git format-patch + git am
20130415 21:28:54< badola_> That time the graphics seemed more intutive to me, but the storyline was always awesome. Cheers to the dev team behind wesnoth.
20130415 21:30:04< thunderstruck> Soliton, thanks, I didn't expect it to be so simple :)
20130415 21:32:29< badola_> Most of the time I am not able to find Crab_, can I bug other developers for help, on how to get started with it..?
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20130415 21:37:30< Soliton> badola_: sure. just ask.
20130415 21:38:01< badola_> Thanks Soliton . :)
20130415 21:38:36< badola_> I have the code cloned from git, I haven't compiled yet but sure will do soon.
20130415 21:39:11< badola_> My doubt is should I dive into code right now and try to make sense out of it, or should I try solving some bug before..?
20130415 21:40:27< Soliton> should be difficult to solve a bug without diving into the code.
20130415 21:41:03< Ivanovic> badola_: first you should be able to compile and run the game
20130415 21:41:16< Ivanovic> then you should look for a bug and, to fix it you will need to dive into the code
20130415 21:43:04< badola_> Thanks for the guidance guys. I will do it asap and report back. btw, are there some specific bugs to solve for the beginners..?
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20130415 21:43:44< badola_> or can I choose any from the bug entries of wesnoth..?
20130415 21:44:05< badola_> My core competency is C++
20130415 21:44:59< Soliton> there is the easy coding page on the wiki otherwise just try to find a simple looking bug.
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20130415 21:46:00< Soliton> you're welcome to ask questions here about whatever bug report you're trying to tackle.
20130415 21:46:50< badola_> Thanks Soliton. I will surely do so. 
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20130415 23:05:00< LordBob_> evening, people
20130415 23:06:23< LordBob_> fendrin, you there ?
20130415 23:06:23< fendrin> LordBob_: hi
20130415 23:06:23< fendrin> LordBob_: Just working on the imitation of one of your mockups.
20130415 23:06:23< LordBob_> Ah ,good :) judging by reactions in the forums, it seems we're headed in the right direction
20130415 23:06:29< fendrin> LordBob_: Looks a bit ugly because of the non fitting background images. Scaling them makes ugly large blury borders.
20130415 23:07:07< fendrin> But is seems fine just for having a look.
20130415 23:08:32< fendrin> LordBob_: you used some mockup icons in your images. Can I have images for them? Just to avoid blank buttons. 
20130415 23:09:28< LordBob_> I'm eager to see the result. Did I ? Most of the time, I copy/pasted from your earlier screenshot or simply wrote on top of a blank button
20130415 23:10:24< fendrin> LordBob_: Yes, but isolation a transparent overlay gives my some gimp headache. I had the hope that it is trivial for you.
20130415 23:11:38< LordBob_> Ah. Well. Errrr... Since it was a mock-up, I did everything on a single layer (if you're refering to the cut/copy/paste etc. icons)
20130415 23:11:48< fendrin> yes, those
20130415 23:11:51-!- seiC1n [~6c1n@host180-232-dynamic.44-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20130415 23:12:20< LordBob_> So yes, I'm afraid you'll be quicker done if you just copy/paste from the mockups :s
20130415 23:12:37< fendrin> okay
20130415 23:13:21< flix> mattsc: Is somewhere documented what the basic idea behind the Rush-Recruitment-AI from the MicroAI-Demos is? http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Micro_AIs#Rush_Recruitment_AI_.28recruiting_type.3Drushers.29 is not very helpful there.
20130415 23:14:14< jetrel2> Hey there.
20130415 23:14:23< fendrin> hi jetrel2
20130415 23:14:36 * jetrel2 tips hat
20130415 23:14:37< LordBob_> Fendrin: while you do that, I'll start studies for a revised background. Since we're going to make changes anyway, might as well start to prepare the future ^^
20130415 23:14:43< LordBob_> Hi Jet
20130415 23:15:06< jetrel2> hi. :)
20130415 23:15:18< fendrin> LordBob_: Oh yes, the background images haven't changed since ages.
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20130415 23:16:33< fendrin> jetrel2: You might catch interest on this: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=38636&start=15
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20130415 23:17:42< fendrin> LordBob_: And I am preparing a screenshot which uses the overlay icons on the actions in menues. We can see how the size of the icons works.
20130415 23:20:59< LordBob_> Fendrin: that's good news
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20130415 23:38:10< Darko> Hello everyone, i registered on the forums to PM someone , and i didn't receive the activation e-mail for 24 hours now , i tried re-sending the activation mail and still didn't receive it , what should i do ?
20130415 23:38:24< Ivanovic> Darko: talk to shadowm
20130415 23:38:38< Ivanovic> and i am off to bed now, n8
20130415 23:39:38< mattsc> flix: no, unfortunately not at this time.  You'll have to check out the code and comments therein:  https://github.com/mattsc/Wesnoth-AI-Demos/blob/master/lua/generic-recruit_engine.lua
20130415 23:39:48< Darko> @Ivanovic , ok thanks
20130415 23:40:30< mattsc> Darko: also check your spam or junk mail folder.  Sometimes these emails end up there.
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20130415 23:40:37< AI0867> Darko: which email provider are you using?
20130415 23:41:45< Darko> @mattsc i did check my junk
20130415 23:41:58< Darko> @AI0867 , hotmail
20130415 23:42:08< mattsc> Darko: ok.  Well, it was worth a try...
20130415 23:43:49< Darko> @mattsc , yeah thank you :)
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20130415 23:49:49< AI0867> Darko: we had some other hotmail users with the same issue last week
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20130415 23:51:47< Darko> @AI0867 , hmm, any suggestion ? or should i wait and it will be fixed ?
20130415 23:52:20< AI0867> I have no idea what the problem is, but it seems to work fine with gmail. Another option is having shadowm activate your account manually
20130415 23:52:31< AI0867> so poke him
20130415 23:52:42< AI0867> (perhaps gambit can do this too)
20130415 23:53:31< Darko> @AI0867 ,i see,  i did speak to him , but no reply so far :D
20130415 23:55:37< fendrin> LordBob_: http://imagebin.org/254175
20130415 23:57:18< LordBob_> fendrin: it feels tightly packed. What resolution is this ?
20130415 23:58:03< fendrin> LordBob_: Well, the smallest we need t support 800x480. But the good news is that there are no extra rules yet. I do not have to cripple the gui in order to make it fit here.
20130415 23:59:34< fendrin> LordBob_: And I guess most of the distress is caused by the bad background.
--- Log closed Tue Apr 16 00:00:12 2013