--- Log opened Sat Apr 20 00:00:38 2013
20130420 00:00:51< LordBob_> and when you say "gold stuff", do you mean the circular shapes, or the entire window frame ?
20130420 00:01:26< LordBob_> If the former, then yes. I did not want to hamper too much the reading of the map
20130420 00:01:52< AI0867> the braid-like stuff
20130420 00:02:56< LordBob_> Ah. That. Thing is, it's got to stop somehow, lest tiling becomes a mess
20130420 00:03:11< fendrin> indeed
20130420 00:03:25< fendrin> but the stopping could be made more smooth.
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20130420 00:03:40< LordBob_> Unless...
20130420 00:03:46< LordBob_> There might still be a way
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20130420 00:04:22< LordBob_> Actually, what makes tiling difficult is because I introduced symetry between each corner
20130420 00:05:02< LordBob_> But i could just as well let the braid run on the entire length of a map side
20130420 00:05:13< LordBob_> Then, it simply doesn't stop anymore
20130420 00:05:41< fendrin> Thus no south border
20130420 00:06:09< LordBob_> Still a south border, with two corners
20130420 00:06:20< fendrin> huh?
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20130420 00:16:04< LordBob_> Fendrin; here's an overview with full-length braid and no south border: is this what you had in mind ?
20130420 00:16:06< LordBob_> http://imagebin.org/254657
20130420 00:16:53< fendrin> LordBob_: Well, that is a solution that works and avoids the stopping. But I was fine wit the stopping.
20130420 00:17:17< fendrin> LordBob_: It was AI0867 who mentioned it stops to abrupt.
20130420 00:17:41< AI0867> yeah, it just looked like a sharp end
20130420 00:18:04< AI0867> a braid doesn't work too well when it doesn't surround the viewport on all 4 sides though
20130420 00:18:07< LordBob_> Oh, I don't mind that it runs full length. 
20130420 00:18:14< AI0867> and if you cut off the bottom, why not cut off the left too?
20130420 00:18:39< LordBob_> It's Fendrin's no south border" that surprised me a bit
20130420 00:19:08< fendrin> What you did is exactly what my "no south border" meant.
20130420 00:20:00< fendrin> And yes, without south border the left is also obsolete.
20130420 00:21:21< LordBob_> Well... Either way looks fine by me (full border vs north-east only), so I can't really decide which one's the best
20130420 00:22:33< LordBob_> I guess this is one of those subjects where half the people you ask will answer that they like an opening, the felling of freedom blabla, and the the other half that they like the border, the neatness blablabla ^^;;
20130420 00:23:18< fendrin> :-)
20130420 00:23:31< LordBob_> (And then, this is possibly where you put the problem in the hands of the art director, who shrugs and tosses a coin
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20130420 00:24:12 * LordBob_ ponders
20130420 00:24:28 * LordBob_ scratches chin
20130420 00:24:44< LordBob_> I say we drop the south and west borders
20130420 00:25:16< fendrin> okay
20130420 00:25:30< LordBob_> We're already looking for ways to give a greater opening on the terrain in the high res screen, so better be consistent with that
20130420 00:25:55< LordBob_> And it allows simpler theme WML
20130420 00:27:17< LordBob_> Fendrin: Fendrin: next, shall I slice the image and provide a modified cfg ?
20130420 00:28:18< fendrin> yes
20130420 00:28:23< fendrin> I if you want to
20130420 00:28:31< fendrin> I could do the cfg as well.
20130420 00:32:13< LordBob_> Oh well. It will be quicker if you're the one doing it, and this way I can get to work on the icons
20130420 00:33:41< fendrin> fine :-)
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20130420 01:30:13< kelpy> question:
20130420 01:30:38< kelpy> where can I go to tell how wenoth handles config files?
20130420 01:34:02< Espreon> Do you mean actual configuration files or just reading WML files in general?
20130420 01:34:29< LordBob_> fendrin: backgrounds are done and sliced
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20130420 01:35:14< LordBob_> I only did main slices, and didn't take care of the tiling transitions
20130420 01:35:52< LordBob_> I'll do that tomorrow and then post the result on the forums.
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20130420 04:00:06< seanl> mattsc:  Are you there?
20130420 04:01:00< mattsc> seanl: kind of - I'll be on for a few minutes, off for a few throughout the next hour or two. 
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20130420 04:02:27< seanl> k i just have a few questions.  Where is the best place to start for getting to know the ai code?
20130420 04:03:09< mattsc> The C++ AI code, or how to add AI behavior (with Lua AI or Formula AI)?
20130420 04:04:11< seanl> mattsc:  c++ 
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20130420 04:05:19< mattsc> seanl: the first thing you should do is to make sure you understand how the candidate action (CA) method works.
20130420 04:05:35< mattsc> The concept of it, I mean, not necessarily the code.
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20130420 04:06:16< mattsc> Try this and links therein: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Practical_Guide_to_Modifying_AI_Behavior
20130420 04:06:27< seanl> mattsc:  Ok thx
20130420 04:06:34< mattsc> After that, I
20130420 04:06:57< mattsc> ... I'd just go into the code in src/ai, pick one of the CAs, and try to work my way through the code.
20130420 04:07:23< seanl> ok ill start with that.
20130420 04:07:37< mattsc> seanl: do you have experience with playing Wesnoth (I might have asked you yesterday already)
20130420 04:08:04< mattsc> ... and which of the AI projects are you interested in?
20130420 04:08:11< seanl> About a weeks worth but i've looked through the logs and the forums a lot.
20130420 04:09:19< mattsc> For the GSoC AI projects it definitely helps to understand how the AI behaves at the moment; but the emphasis is a bit different depending on which project you want to work on.
20130420 04:09:24< seanl> I'm interested in all ai in general so I'm just trying to figure out what would be must important and what would work best for me.
20130420 04:10:03< mattsc> seanl: ok.  Well, for the "total defense" project you want to understand how the AI currently attacks.
20130420 04:10:47< mattsc> for "recruiting", you kind of want a general feeling for what constitutes an advantage (or disadvantage) in Wesnoth gameplay.
20130420 04:11:22< seanl> Ok as of right now I'm leaning towards the total defense.
20130420 04:11:32< mattsc> And for working on the mainline campaigns, you should have a pretty good feeling for what the AI capabilities are, in particular also the new ones that are not used in mainline yet (for the most part)
20130420 04:12:29< mattsc> Okay - Crab_ has given people some ideas over the last few days what to do to get familiar with that.  Have you read the IRC logs?
20130420 04:12:54< seanl> Yeah i've read through the past 4 days.
20130420 04:13:22< mattsc> So you know that he suggested people test how the AI attacks for different values of aggression
20130420 04:13:38< mattsc> ... and that it does not do very well unless aggression is set pretty high.
20130420 04:13:51< mattsc> So you might want to do that too, in addition to look into the code itself.
20130420 04:14:41< seanl> yep i read that it is willing to give up a 2:1 gold ratio.
20130420 04:14:58< mattsc> Ok, have to be off for a little.  Will be back in 15-20 min...  I'll check back then.
20130420 04:15:08< seanl> k thx
20130420 04:15:44< mattsc> ^ that is with the standard setting for aggression (as you can see if you look into the combat CA code); what it is willing to do depends on what you set aggression to.
20130420 04:15:55< mattsc> ttyl
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20130420 04:37:11< mattsc> seanl: I'm back for a short while.  Did you have any other questions for right now?
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20130420 04:38:50< seanl> Yeah, can are new candidate actions written soley in lua?
20130420 04:39:01< seanl> or can they be written in c++?
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20130420 04:39:21< mattsc> No, you can write them in c++, lua AI or formual ai
20130420 04:39:31< mattsc> *Formula
20130420 04:40:41< seanl> Does the ai take into account how many turns you have left?
20130420 04:41:05< mattsc> No, not currently.
20130420 04:42:59< seanl> mattsc:  Does that sound like something that may be beneficial to the ai?
20130420 04:43:58< mattsc> It might be under certain circumstance, but it's probably too unusual a case to make it a high priority.
20130420 04:44:27< _Coffee> mattsc: sorry to jump in maybe an often come up case then
20130420 04:44:38< _Coffee> maybe on the last turn you could have AI try to kill leader?
20130420 04:44:57< _Coffee> in suicide like attack, throwing all units
20130420 04:45:31< _Coffee> if the condition for victory is kill leader and set
20130420 04:45:32< mattsc> _Coffee: sure, that's one of those special cases -- although the AI is already pretty good at suicide attacks.  ;)
20130420 04:45:45< _Coffee> would be easy to add I would think
20130420 04:45:50< _Coffee> and useful
20130420 04:45:57< _Coffee> I've seen it come up a bit
20130420 04:46:15< _Coffee> lol, yes AI is suicidal by default
20130420 04:46:21< mattsc> Another option case is when the goal is survival (the AI is usually not supposed to win after all), to pull everybody back around the leader 2 turns before the end and not attack at all.
20130420 04:47:07< _Coffee> yes, that would be good also
20130420 04:47:08< mattsc> _Coffee: yeah - in Fred we actually have a high priority on leader attacks no matter what turn it is.  But not super suicidal...
20130420 04:47:38< _Coffee> and run for the hills tactics would be awesome
20130420 04:47:58< mattsc> So, seanl: there definitely are cases when that would be useful, but I think it is more important to make sure the AI actually gets to a couple turns before the end without being slaughtered.
20130420 04:48:31< seanl> mattsc: Ok ill see if i can start working on that, seems like it might be an easy place to start.
20130420 04:48:38< _Coffee> yes, AI is very poor, even with setting caution values and agression to match time of day
20130420 04:48:43< mattsc> _Coffee: right, like that scenario in ... TSG, maybe
20130420 04:48:50< mattsc> (where the player has to do that)
20130420 04:49:31< _Coffee> my UMC campaign has "good" AI I think, much better than average AI, just by setting different AI parameters based on time of day
20130420 04:49:47< mattsc> seanl: sure.  You might also ask Crab_.  He's already assigned some easy AI behavior tasks to some of the other students.  He's very good at that kind of thing...
20130420 04:49:48< _Coffee> and more directed recruiting
20130420 04:49:56< _Coffee> and more directed village grabbing
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20130420 04:50:36< mattsc> _Coffee: Cool.  Fred has a 93% win rate against the RCA AI across all maps and factions.  But he's still far from being finished.
20130420 04:50:52< _Coffee> be nice if AI could just recruit well, and grab villages and wait for correct time of day, etc. without being prodded with CA functions
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20130420 04:50:59< mattsc> Ah, sorry, for Fred that's only on Freelands ...
20130420 04:51:11< mattsc> but he now is in principle able to play all maps.
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20130420 04:51:51< _Coffee> mattsc: I've played with the new AIs a bit and found they are in some cases worse than regular AI
20130420 04:51:54< mattsc> _Coffee: you might want to check out Fred in a couple weeks...
20130420 04:52:13< _Coffee> they are easy to goad on to villages, etc.
20130420 04:53:00< fendrin> hi _Coffee, mattsc
20130420 04:53:07< _Coffee> I'll check in a couple of weeks :)
20130420 04:53:17< mattsc> _Coffee: one of the problem I have found with testing the AIs (in their current stage, at least) against human players is that the latter are very good at identifying any weekness.  And then they just pound on that ...
20130420 04:53:39< mattsc> Which is great for identifying the weaknesses, but it doesn't tell you anything about what the AI actually does well.  :)
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20130420 04:54:36< mattsc> _Coffee: cool.  Wait for the next official release, which I will make when the current really big problem is solved.
20130420 04:54:42< mattsc> hi fendrin 
20130420 04:55:04< _Coffee> hello fendrin
20130420 04:55:31< _Coffee> it's actually pretty exiting to see the AI being worked on by so many people
20130420 04:55:46< mattsc> I couldn't agree more
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20130420 04:56:21< _Coffee> with some luck we can test without giving the AI 3 times as much gold to start to make it even ;)
20130420 04:56:34< mattsc> I'm really hoping that one of the students will work on the total defense project - I want to pitch the result against Fred.  L)
20130420 04:57:33< mattsc> _Coffee: I'm not sure that you'd win against Fred even in his current state if he has 3 times as much gold.   :P 
20130420 04:57:42< _Coffee> well...
20130420 04:57:48< _Coffee> we'll see :)
20130420 04:57:55< mattsc> exactly
20130420 04:58:37< fendrin> Indeed, all the new ai work is very exiting.
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20130420 04:59:34< _Coffee> I would like to be able to use LUA AI functions with sides that are dynamically created still
20130420 04:59:44< _Coffee> pity you can't do that
20130420 05:00:07< mattsc> _Coffee: you mean because you need to define an engine?  Or why?
20130420 05:00:15< _Coffee> mattsc:yes
20130420 05:00:28< _Coffee> that is why in my addon I need to still use formula AI
20130420 05:00:47< mattsc> We're very close to that restriction being lifted.  In fact, if you don't need to pass parameters to the CAs, you can already do thart.
20130420 05:01:13< mattsc> If just need Nephro (or Crab_) to finish the last little bit of work on the external CAs.
20130420 05:01:24< _Coffee> would be good
20130420 05:01:26< mattsc> s/If/We
20130420 05:01:38< _Coffee> because the formula AI stuff seems to be broken in many places since 1.10
20130420 05:01:45< _Coffee> and getting obsolete
20130420 05:02:24< fendrin> _Coffee: I would like to have dynamic allocation of sides in multiplayer campaigns.
20130420 05:02:42< mattsc> _Coffee: wiki.wesnoth.org/Luaai_new_syntax
20130420 05:03:09< redeian> Hello
20130420 05:03:10< mattsc> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Luaai_new_syntax
20130420 05:03:16< fendrin> _Coffee: I mean I want them to be freely assignable like player named "foo" plays protagonist "Kalenz" at "side 3".
20130420 05:04:09< fendrin> _Coffee: I guess if a gsoc student is going to work on the issue we can have both at the same time. Freely assignable sides + dynamic allocation of them.
20130420 05:04:17< mattsc> Hi redeian 
20130420 05:04:39< redeian> Hi Mattsc
20130420 05:04:50< _Coffee> as long as you can assign LU AI stuff onto a side already defined earlier, I will be happy :D
20130420 05:05:23< mattsc> _Coffee: do you need it to be different Lua AI stuff, or is it the same for all sides?
20130420 05:05:29< _Coffee> although it's possible that I am the only person who does this
20130420 05:05:40< _Coffee> mattsc: for sure different!
20130420 05:05:46 * fendrin feels a little bit ignored.
20130420 05:05:47< mattsc> Because you can just assign the Lua AI to a human controlled side, no problem
20130420 05:06:11< _Coffee> orcs should poay differently from elves, etc
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20130420 05:06:34< mattsc> fendrin: I did say hi  ;)   but don't really have any insight into the rest you wrote
20130420 05:06:41< _Coffee> I have in my UMC addon set different parameters and play styles and recruit formul for each default faction
20130420 05:06:48< _Coffee> so the AI is fun to play against
20130420 05:07:16< mattsc> _Coffee: that shouldn't be a problem to do even with the old Lua AI
20130420 05:07:17< _Coffee> I don't know why this is not done by default in multiplayer?
20130420 05:07:44< _Coffee> mattsc: it is because the faction is determined after the game has started
20130420 05:08:01< _Coffee> meaning that I can at the moment only use formula AI
20130420 05:08:06< mattsc> That's ok.  You just give the AI an engine that can do all factions.
20130420 05:08:23< _Coffee> maybe what fendrin is saying may fix this in the future?
20130420 05:08:38< _Coffee> mattsc: no, because I mix them up a bit
20130420 05:09:07< mattsc> still possible...  (if I understand it correctly)
20130420 05:09:20< mattsc> But then, the external CAs will take care of it anyway.
20130420 05:09:33< mattsc> fendrin: was there anything you wanted me to comment on that I missed?
20130420 05:09:48< _Coffee> basically side N needs a proper recuirt formula and recuit placement and scouting formula and village grabbing priority and defend this village, etc.
20130420 05:09:50< fendrin> I think you must now that adding new sides during a gamestate is a piece of cake.
20130420 05:10:22< fendrin> I do that in the editor at will, triggered by the user who wants to define a new side.
20130420 05:10:30< _Coffee> perhaps it is possible, but I don't see how with LUA
20130420 05:10:54< fendrin> The c++ engine for the game can add a new side easily as well.
20130420 05:11:18< fendrin> All you need is some simple wml/lua interface to trigger it.
20130420 05:11:28< mattsc> fendrin: the problem is that currently the Lua AI engine has to be defined in the [side] tag at scenario start, otherwise it won't work
20130420 05:11:35< _Coffee> yes
20130420 05:11:38< _Coffee> that is the problem
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20130420 05:12:08< _Coffee> need to be able to tag t on to a side dynamically for it to be really useful
20130420 05:12:12< mattsc> _Coffee: but that does not mean that you cannot change the AI behavior during the scenario.  The Micro AIs have that built in.
20130420 05:12:26< fendrin> Okay, then let's think about a new system.
20130420 05:12:38< fendrin> Let's say that we define all sides in events.
20130420 05:12:46< mattsc> check the action= key here: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Micro_AIs#2._Activating_and_configuring_.28or_deleting.29_a_Micro_AI
20130420 05:13:21< fendrin> [side] tags at scenario toplevel are just translated into [event] name=prestart [side] definitions.
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20130420 05:14:04< _Coffee> you still have to define this up front
20130420 05:14:22< _Coffee> meaning that for some authors (with randomized play) it doesn't really work
20130420 05:14:24< mattsc> fendrin: the new system exists already.  It's the external AI mechanism that Nephro wrote.  It's just not quite completed yet.
20130420 05:14:42< fendrin> mattsc: Nice to hear.
20130420 05:15:02< fendrin> _Coffee: Nope. The [side] tag would be an action WML one.
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20130420 05:15:20< mattsc> It works as long as you don't need to pass parameters to the CA, or need a persistent variable.  But Crab_ says those are easy additions.
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20130420 05:15:52< _Coffee> can you change it dynamically after a game has started?
20130420 05:15:55< fendrin> shikadibot: You are a spy of shadowm, aren't you?
20130420 05:16:01< mattsc> _Coffee: I guess I don't understand what "randomized play" means.
20130420 05:16:06< fendrin> _Coffee: Yes, that is the basic idea.
20130420 05:16:11< mattsc> _Coffee: yes
20130420 05:16:34< mattsc> well, at least that's the goal.  I forgot if I checked whether that works already.
20130420 05:16:44< _Coffee> so you can have a LUA AI file completely different from the one at the start and switch, based on dynamic sfactors?
20130420 05:16:55< mattsc> yes
20130420 05:17:10< _Coffee> have to look into that a bit further then
20130420 05:17:48< mattsc> _Coffee: as I said, this method is not well tested yet and might be buggy  I stopped testing it when I found that it does not (yet) do what I need.
20130420 05:18:01< mattsc> But that means that other people testing it is just so much more valuable  :)
20130420 05:18:15< redeian> what's you guys talking about? lol
20130420 05:18:24< _Coffee> I suppose I should switch to LUA for my custom AI golas
20130420 05:18:32< redeian> add new AI to the game?
20130420 05:18:39< _Coffee> I am talking about using the AI stuff these guys write the capability for :P
20130420 05:18:51< _Coffee> in a UMC MP Campaign
20130420 05:19:00< mattsc> Well, I'm mostly a user as well  
20130420 05:19:26< redeian> oic
20130420 05:19:39< mattsc> _Coffee: I still don't understand your statement that you cannot do this with the current Lua AI though.  Can you give me a concrete example?
20130420 05:19:50< mattsc> Or is that a waste of our time, with the new system on the horizon?
20130420 05:19:52< _Coffee> my campaign is called "The Great Quest"
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20130420 05:20:10< _Coffee> sometimes played on the MP server by various people
20130420 05:20:16< mattsc> I remember vaguely, but I haven't tried it out yet ...
20130420 05:20:25< _Coffee> give it a go then :)
20130420 05:20:30< _Coffee> has better AI than regular
20130420 05:20:37< mattsc> :)
20130420 05:20:41< _Coffee> although is best on 1.10
20130420 05:20:46< _Coffee> as 1.11 broke some code
20130420 05:21:17< mattsc> So what do you do that cannot be done with current Lua AI?  A simple example that even I might be able to understand?
20130420 05:21:25< _Coffee> lol
20130420 05:21:54< _Coffee> what I do is tack on behavious to various sides
20130420 05:22:05< _Coffee> like don't attack until turn 3 with scouts
20130420 05:22:24< _Coffee> with chaotic sides, increase agression during dusk
20130420 05:22:31< _Coffee> and go full out until dawn
20130420 05:22:42< _Coffee> and then retreat, and take a dfensive formation
20130420 05:23:19< mattsc> _Coffee: and you want to change that as you go through the scenario, randomly?
20130420 05:23:26< _Coffee> and proper village grabbing, based on which square to recuirt a scout
20130420 05:23:38< _Coffee> well, for example
20130420 05:23:42< shadowm> *wince*
20130420 05:23:53< _Coffee> one of the villages is 6 hexes away from a side
20130420 05:23:59< shadowm> s/square/hex/
20130420 05:24:15< mattsc> hehe
20130420 05:24:15< _Coffee> and the AI needs to recruit a scout to get this village
20130420 05:24:18< _Coffee> for AI though
20130420 05:24:29< _Coffee> it is better to get an adept than a ghost most often
20130420 05:24:32< mattsc> _Coffee: No problem to do with Lua AI.
20130420 05:24:49< _Coffee> so I recruit an adept, and if not quick, get a ghost to get the village
20130420 05:25:00< _Coffee> need to tweak AI to actually grab the village too
20130420 05:25:12< _Coffee> as it doesn't want to by default do an optimum village grab
20130420 05:25:33< mattsc> _Coffee: sounds very similar to some of the stuff Alarantalara's new recruiting does
20130420 05:25:35< _Coffee> also, placing units around a key village defensively
20130420 05:25:37< _Coffee> etc.
20130420 05:25:53< _Coffee> but the key is
20130420 05:25:59< _Coffee> this side could be any faction
20130420 05:26:03< _Coffee> it might not be undead
20130420 05:26:27< mattsc> _Coffee: no problem.  Both Ron and Fred can play any faction, and on any map.
20130420 05:26:32< _Coffee> I also set it so that the AI does not attack first
20130420 05:26:41< _Coffee> unless there is a good opportunity
20130420 05:27:00< _Coffee> mattsc: yes, I know
20130420 05:27:05< _Coffee> this is good to have smarter AI
20130420 05:27:11< mattsc> _Coffee: btw, don't get me wrong, I am not saying that you should do this with Lua AI, just that you can
20130420 05:27:15< _Coffee> but there will always be goals specifici to a particular scenario
20130420 05:27:25< _Coffee> that I'd like to be able to tack on
20130420 05:27:40< mattsc> Yep.  Fred currently only plays Freelands well.
20130420 05:27:42< _Coffee> and use all the wonderful AI functions that have been developed
20130420 05:28:25< mattsc> Here's how we tell Fredd what to do on Freelands: https://github.com/mattsc/Wesnoth-AI-Demos/blob/master/lua/grunt-rush-Freelands-S1_engine.lua#L57
20130420 05:28:28< _Coffee> another one, is to weed out cheats in my vs_survival addon
20130420 05:29:00< _Coffee> by telling AI to target on an ambushed/submerged unit if and only if there are all units hidden from AI
20130420 05:29:10< _Coffee> so players do not cheat to easy victory
20130420 05:29:28< _Coffee> mattsc: I have seen this
20130420 05:29:53< mattsc> _Coffee: you want to help developing this?  :D
20130420 05:30:11< _Coffee> well, I have sort of found the animation stuff to be my area
20130420 05:30:28< _Coffee> although I am happy to use the AI functions and let you know feedback
20130420 05:30:31< mattsc> (ugh, just looked at the clock; will be back in 10 min)
20130420 05:30:35< _Coffee> in case it is useful
20130420 05:30:44< mattsc> absolutely!
20130420 05:31:43< _Coffee> I'll do a bit more testing with this LUA stuff and check back with you and Fred in a couple of weeks
20130420 05:32:22< shadowm> Lua is not an acronym. :(
20130420 05:32:44< _Coffee> shadowm: I don't know I can't figure out how to use it yet :P
20130420 05:34:51< fendrin> It means "Moon" in Portuguese.
20130420 05:35:08< fendrin> Very fitting.
20130420 05:35:10< _Coffee> probably from "Luna"
20130420 05:35:38< fendrin> As a language that primarily aims at scripting engines that makes totally sense.
20130420 05:36:08< _Coffee> like Python, where you have to contort yourself around branches to use it :D
20130420 05:36:18< fendrin> or perl
20130420 05:36:32< _Coffee> where you could be stuck in a hard to use shell
20130420 05:36:35< fendrin> but lua also offers many functional stuff.
20130420 05:36:44< mattsc> _Coffee: sorry, I need to wind this down, need to do something else...
20130420 05:36:51< _Coffee> np
20130420 05:36:56< mattsc> I can spend another 5-10min if there's something else.
20130420 05:37:41< mattsc> Anyway, yes, any testing and feedback is always very helpful.
20130420 05:39:12< mattsc> _Coffee: a lot of the things you describe up there are already done one way or another in the different AIs.  Not all though.
20130420 05:40:40< mattsc> And there are still lots of problems.  Neither of us working on these AIs has had a lot of time in the last few months, so it's extremely slow progress at the moment.
20130420 05:40:51< _Coffee> mattsc: AI is hard
20130420 05:41:02< _Coffee> I studied a bit of AI programming myself
20130420 05:41:20< _Coffee> I know to stay away form it, else be sucked in to never ending work  :P
20130420 05:42:19< mattsc> _Coffee: well, I never studied it (or any other kind of CS), so that's probably why I figure I'd give it a shot.  Because I had no idea what I was getting into.  :)
20130420 05:46:54< _Coffee> has anything been posted on the dev mailing list since the 14th about the github transition?
20130420 05:47:32< shadowm> _Coffee: No.
20130420 05:47:45< _Coffee> I suppose I am just impatient then
20130420 05:47:46< shadowm> But I did say something about in earlier in this channel.
20130420 05:47:57< mattsc> _Coffee: I'm off then.  I'll stay logged in though, at least for a while.
20130420 05:48:06< _Coffee> see you mattsc
20130420 05:48:23< mattsc> cheers
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20130420 05:52:22< redeian> What part of the project are you working on mattsc?
20130420 05:53:38< mattsc> redeian: I mostly mess with custom AIs (from the user side, not developer side)
20130420 05:54:17< redeian> so you write AI with Lua and submit to the game?
20130420 05:54:56< mattsc> yes, essentially
20130420 05:55:18< redeian> oic
20130420 06:00:31-!- ancestral [~ancestral@mobile-198-228-232-017.mycingular.net] has quit [Quit: Smell ya later!]
20130420 06:02:28< fendrin> mattsc: Well, I started being a developer as WML contributor as well. You are clearly on the developer side. Don't you have commit access already?
20130420 06:03:38< redeian> ^_^
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20130420 06:59:57< mattsc> fendrin: thanks, yes, I do.  I'm just trying to say that most of what I am working on is user-side work on the AI, rather than development of new capabilities.
20130420 07:00:03< danny__> hey
20130420 07:00:09< mattsc> Probably not expressing myself very wellm as usual.  :)
20130420 07:02:13< mattsc> hi danny__ 
20130420 07:02:30-!- BeachedWhale07 [~StephenNi@172.220.5.7] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
20130420 07:02:49< danny__> My course's project was to fix few bugs on Wesnoth :) we fixed a few
20130420 07:02:59< danny__> and now I am planning on applying for Google Summer of Code
20130420 07:06:45< mattsc> danny__: nice.  Did you submit patches for those bug fixes?
20130420 07:06:56-!- kkthecoder [~kk@49.136.215.170] has joined #wesnoth-dev
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20130420 07:08:29< danny__> Not yet. But one of my classmates fixed the bug just a day earlier than me and got credit for it
20130420 07:09:01< danny__> After the semester is over we are going to submit the patches 
20130420 07:09:34< fendrin> danny__: I wonder why your whole class isn't in our chat room?
20130420 07:09:46< danny__> We were trying to fix the text_box issue 
20130420 07:09:48< danny__> they were
20130420 07:09:55< danny__> but most of them are done with their bugs 
20130420 07:10:04< danny__> or some of them are too stuck up to seek help
20130420 07:11:13< fendrin> Wesnoth being the subject of classwork feels somehow strange.
20130420 07:12:01< Gambit> Someone was writing their thesis about us.
20130420 07:12:43< fendrin> A thesis must be published somehow. Were can we read it?
20130420 07:13:28< Gambit> Sadly their site is very out of date: http://www.poderi.eu/
20130420 07:13:45< danny__> http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=wesnoth&btnG=&as_sdt=1%2C10&as_sdtp=
20130420 07:13:45< Gambit> They last visited the forums March 28th.
20130420 07:13:56< Gambit> I should pm them and see how things are going.
20130420 07:14:20< danny__> http://www.poderi.eu/sites/default/files/ReasonedBibliography-Poderi.pdf
20130420 07:14:34< danny__> I think this is the paper you were looking for
20130420 07:15:27< Gambit> That is a neat google subdomain that I did not know existed.
20130420 07:16:02-!- molgrum_ [~molgrum@h-234-238.a189.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130420 07:19:14< fendrin> Gambit: tx
20130420 07:20:01-!- kratos [0e8bc402@gateway/web/freenode/ip.14.139.196.2] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130420 07:21:49< kratos> How to proceed for Gsoc?
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20130420 07:29:11< fendrin> hi kratos
20130420 07:29:21< danny__> kratos from?
20130420 07:29:33< kratos> guwahati india
20130420 07:29:51< _Coffee> Tales of Symphonia :D
20130420 07:30:06-!- Kexoth [~kex@78.157.29.209] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20130420 07:30:08< danny__> nice, you choose a Greek nick name though 
20130420 07:30:20< kratos> gamer :D
20130420 07:30:39< kratos> GOW fan
20130420 07:31:05< danny__> I realized 
20130420 07:31:32< fendrin> kratos: Currently only a few devs are online.
20130420 07:32:01< fendrin> kratos: Sadly, most of our developers are either from Europe or north America.
20130420 07:32:26-!- Netsplit over, joins: kkthecoder
20130420 07:32:38< _Coffee> fendrin: what's wrong with those upside down places :)
20130420 07:33:09< fendrin> _Coffee: Well, I guess we are a little sleepy when india is awake :-)
20130420 07:33:11< kratos> I am basically interested in games and coding(C++ mainly) and came across gsoc ... Is there a possibility to still apply and get through?
20130420 07:33:43< fendrin> kratos: Sure, but we have only two mentors this year.
20130420 07:34:21< fendrin> At least I haven't heard about the deadline for the submit being over.
20130420 07:36:36< kratos> So where can i contact the mentors?
20130420 07:37:27-!- danny__ [a376d6cf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.163.118.214.207] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
20130420 07:39:44< fendrin> kratos: Exactly here.
20130420 07:39:53< fendrin> kratos: Just at other times :-)
20130420 07:39:59< fendrin> wesbot: seen crab_?
20130420 07:39:59< wesbot> fendrin: The person with the nick Crab_ last spoke 13h 27m ago.  13h 18m ago they left with the message: Client Quit
20130420 07:40:06< fendrin> wesbot: seen mordante?
20130420 07:40:07< wesbot> fendrin: The person with the nick mordante last spoke 3d 9h ago.  3d 9h ago was here and on the channel #wesnoth-de with the message: Quit: Leaving
20130420 07:40:30< fendrin> kratos: crab_ is one of the mentors. I am not sure about mordante.
20130420 07:41:12< fendrin> kratos: But in general, stay here in the channel, participate and show some community skills. 
20130420 07:41:34< kratos> I just looked up the project crab_ is heading and would be interested in it ... guess will have to wait it out for him
20130420 07:41:45< kratos> Thanks for the help fendrin
20130420 07:41:59< fendrin> kratos: Sure, just ask again if anything is unclear.
20130420 07:42:08< fendrin> kratos: Please have a look at the easy coding paging.
20130420 07:42:44< fendrin> kratos: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/EasyCoding
20130420 07:42:48< kratos> sure. one more thing .. are the projects discussed here?
20130420 07:42:57< fendrin> They are.
20130420 07:44:28< kratos> This isnt restricted to players right? i havnt played wesnoth
20130420 07:44:43< fendrin> kratos: Well, no.
20130420 07:44:54< fendrin> kratos: But it won't hurt to play at least once.
20130420 07:45:02< fendrin> kratos: Just to know what you are facing
20130420 07:45:38< kratos> I would love to do that but its exam time for me and deadline is approaching.
20130420 07:46:19< kratos> but even if i dont apply playing the game is on top of my list for the next week when m free... m a big mmorpg fan
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20130420 08:01:05< kratos> any good app to run this on android?
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20130420 08:07:53< Ivanovic> wesbot: seen esr
20130420 08:07:53< wesbot> Ivanovic: Queried user last spoke 1d 8h ago.  esr is currently in this channel.
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20130420 08:51:13< mordante> servus
20130420 08:51:58< mordante> hi fendrin 
20130420 08:52:27-!- kelpy [~forrest@c-67-201-222-79.reshall.wwu.edu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130420 08:53:45< Ivanovic> hi mordante
20130420 08:53:52< mordante> hi Ivanovic 
20130420 08:54:07< mordante> Ivanovic, do you know what the status of the GitHub migration is?
20130420 08:54:22< Ivanovic> mordante: i have tried to reach esr for the last 4 days without any reply
20130420 08:54:34< Ivanovic> i am about to write a mail to the ml asking about the options we have right now
20130420 08:54:35< mordante> ok
20130420 08:54:47< Ivanovic> basically there are three
20130420 08:54:48< mordante> it seems the branches are not complete yet
20130420 08:54:50< Ivanovic> 1) wait for esr
20130420 08:55:39< Ivanovic> 2) continue using sf.net for commiting until esr eventually finishes things, then commits would have to be ported over or something like this
20130420 08:55:54< Ivanovic> 3) just migrate what is currently there at sf.net to github and be done
20130420 08:56:05< Ivanovic> i really have no idea what will be the best option
20130420 08:56:19< mordante> there seems to be something at GitHub, but it misses some branches
20130420 08:56:36< mordante> did you try to contact esr here or per email?
20130420 08:57:19< Kratos> anyone applying for gsoc here ?
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20130420 08:58:53< thunderstruck> Kratos, yes.
20130420 08:59:23< mordante> Ivanovic, also seems what's now at GitHub has zas' acount information updated
20130420 09:00:15< Ivanovic> mordante: here many times
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20130420 09:04:46< Kratos> thunderstruck , what idea you working on?
20130420 09:05:08< thunderstruck> Kratos, MP campaigns support. What about you?
20130420 09:05:34< mordante> thanks for the link AI0867 
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20130420 09:06:26< thunderstruck> mordante, hi. Any chance that you will review any of my patches soon? :)
20130420 09:07:00< mordante> Ivanovic, from my point of view I prefer 1 and also email esr asking him what the status is
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20130420 09:07:01< Noble6> thunderstruck , planning for ai defense  
20130420 09:07:17< Ivanovic> mordante: he tends to read the wesnoth-dev mls
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20130420 09:07:25< mordante> Ivanovic, especially since what's now on GitHub has some issues with the old repo fixed
20130420 09:07:56< Noble6> thunderstruck , can you run me through the pre reqs of applying if any?
20130420 09:08:02< mordante> Ivanovic, true, more like add him to the To field
20130420 09:08:24< thunderstruck> Noble6, Do you mean pre reqs for GSoC or Wesnoth?
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20130420 09:08:32< mordante> thunderstruck, at the moment I'm working on something for fendrin, your patches are scheduled after that
20130420 09:09:31< LordBob_> fendrin: awake ?
20130420 09:09:33< Noble6> thunderstruck , wesnoth dev
20130420 09:09:35< thunderstruck> mordante, ok. Thanks.
20130420 09:10:43< thunderstruck> Noble6, well, I would say that this is the answer: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeIdeas#I_want_to_be_one_of_your_Google_Summer_of_Code_students.2C_what_should_I_do...
20130420 09:14:13< Noble6> thunderstruck , thanks . have you done any development here b4 or just applying with exp?
20130420 09:15:39< mordante> Noble6, are you kratos?
20130420 09:16:22< thunderstruck> Noble6, I've started a bit earlier than most of GSoC applicants here and I have contributed a few patches by now.
20130420 09:16:29< thunderstruck> mordante, I bet he is.
20130420 09:16:31< mordante> and Noble6 please don't use sms abbreviations here, not everybody is fluent in English and it makes reading things harder
20130420 09:17:29< DarkNemesis> It is necessary to have done development prior to this?? I want to apply too, and I meet the requirements for AI defense, but I doubt I will be selected over others...
20130420 09:17:49< Noble6> mordante, yes
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20130420 09:17:51< DarkNemesis> Sorry I was asking a question : Is it necessary*
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20130420 09:18:14< Noble6> alternate nick
20130420 09:18:41< Noble6> any advise for some1 fresh to this
20130420 09:19:29< thunderstruck> Noble6, and also, as what I hear here, previous experience is not really enough. You have to do something here to prove you can work on your project.
20130420 09:19:50< DarkNemesis> Like thunderstruck said, he has contributed to a few patches, and so he is more likely to be selected, but what about beginners.. those who want to start..
20130420 09:20:10< mordante> Noble6, thought so, I saw you wanted to contact a mentor
20130420 09:20:13< thunderstruck> DarkNemesis, I think there is plenty time to do something.
20130420 09:20:19< mordante> I'm mentoring GSoC
20130420 09:20:37< DarkNemesis> thunderstruck, like?
20130420 09:22:03< thunderstruck> DarkNemesis, probably the easiest and most interesting way is to find a bug or a task on Easy coding page which interests you.
20130420 09:22:08< thunderstruck> DarkNemesis, and start working on ti.
20130420 09:22:14< thunderstruck> s/ti/it
20130420 09:22:19< DarkNemesis> The problem with me is that I can't really do anything at my university since games are banned, and so only after 2 weeks, when I will go back back home, I will be able to do something...
20130420 09:22:48< Noble6> mordante , how do we prove that?
20130420 09:23:11< DarkNemesis> So its kind of hard to do something to show right now..
20130420 09:23:34< DarkNemesis> thunderstruck, can you please give me the link for that easy coding page?
20130420 09:23:56< DarkNemesis> thunderstruck, I will open it with google cache
20130420 09:24:31< Noble6> is there any other requirement to the ai defense project other than c++
20130420 09:25:06< thunderstruck> DarkNemesis, I'm not sure why do you want to use google cache. To find the page simply put "wesnoth easy coding" in the google.
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20130420 09:26:56< DarkNemesis> thunderstruck, thing is all wesnoth pages are banned here, and to view them I have to use google cache... Doing this for every google search regarding wenoth makes it a bit tedious to find the page which I am looking for
20130420 09:27:33< Noble6> tell when is it feasible to start working on easy coding problems and bugs
20130420 09:27:53< Noble6> till*
20130420 09:28:12< thunderstruck> DarkNemesis, http://wiki.wesnoth.org/EasyCoding
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20130420 09:28:24< Noble6> I mean to submit the application successfully
20130420 09:29:36< DarkNemesis> thunderstruck, thank you.. and will working on this be considered as under GSoC?
20130420 09:30:34< thunderstruck> DarkNemesis, I would say it is a pre-GSoC thing.
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20130420 09:33:30< DarkNemesis> thunderstruck, student application will close after 2 weeks, and till that period, I will be at my university, which means I won't be able to attempt these....
20130420 09:34:27< DarkNemesis> thunderstruck, It seems I will have to wait for 1 year..
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20130420 09:35:59< LordBob_> fendrin: editor background elements are posted on the forum
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20130420 09:50:09< mordante> kratos, how to prove what?
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20130420 09:51:22< kratos> mordante , that m eligible for the ai defense project ... 
20130420 09:51:59< mordante> kratos, see it as a job interview, you need to convince use that you're able to do the job
20130420 09:52:27< mordante> kratos, the best way to do so is to write a strong proposal, interact with us and provide patches
20130420 09:53:54< kratos> mordante , actually I have exams this week . so I wanted to know beforehand if m eligible to apply
20130420 09:54:21< kratos> I mean language and platform pre reqs
20130420 09:54:36< mordante> kratos, ?
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20130420 10:55:07< Ivanovic> mordante: please make sure to reply to the wesnoth-dev ml so that we have the opinions gathered there
20130420 10:55:26< Ivanovic> shadowm, Soliton, all other active folks interested in the git conversion: please check wesnoth-dev ml!
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20130420 11:07:38< AI0867> Ivanovic: I'll go send a mail with more details about the current status
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20130420 11:17:44< mordante> Ivanovic, I will, but wait for AI0867's email
20130420 11:17:50< shadowm> Same.
20130420 11:26:05< AI0867> done
20130420 11:26:13< AI0867> and I forgot to sign my mails again...
20130420 11:27:41< shadowm> Your quotes are also a little broken.
20130420 11:28:56 * AI0867 checks gna
20130420 11:28:58< shadowm> All I have to say is that this exact same branch problem happened when we switched to SF.net, except that esr addressed the issue much faster.
20130420 11:29:06< shadowm> Since this is all I have to say, I won't post in the mailing list.
20130420 11:29:41< AI0867> it's not in the archive yet
20130420 11:30:30< shadowm> I already got your email.
20130420 11:30:35< shadowm> The archive is a little slower.
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20130420 11:45:13< thunderstruck> lipkab, hi. I've found the cause of this bug: https://gna.org/bugs/?20704 . In unit.cpp add_modification function access resources::controller.
20130420 11:45:42< thunderstruck> lipkab, the problem is that this method is called after controller is destroyed.
20130420 11:45:57< lipkab> thunderstruck: Very cool.
20130420 11:46:25< thunderstruck> lipkab, so, I'm not sure that is the best solution. I know that I can simply remove the code which checks for 'id'.
20130420 11:46:44< thunderstruck> lipkab, or I could postpone controller destruction or maybe pass it to other function.
20130420 11:46:50< thunderstruck> lipkab, but that can be quite nasty.
20130420 11:47:05< lipkab> I'm afraid I can't help with that just now.
20130420 11:47:18< lipkab> I'm not familiar with that part.
20130420 11:47:39< lipkab> ...I'm just the one who happened to get across with this bug.
20130420 11:47:48< thunderstruck> lipkab, ah ok. I don't know why assumed that you might be..
20130420 11:49:00< thunderstruck> Who is familiar with unit modifications and play_controller code?
20130420 11:50:01< lipkab> thunderstruck: The bug is likely to be connected to jamit's work in that area, but he's being inactive nowadays :(
20130420 11:50:09< Necrosporus> Seem like ctrl-b shows the moves of enemy which is not visible
20130420 11:50:12< Necrosporus> or somehow
20130420 11:50:41< Necrosporus> Do this function work in fog of war correctly?
20130420 11:50:56< lipkab> thunderstruck: mordante was also interested in that issue, although not sure if he's aware what code it is related to.
20130420 11:55:03< thunderstruck> lipkab, hmm. Well, the code which causes that issue is only there for performance reasons. So if no one helps me dealing with this issue, I'll simply remove/comment that part which causes a bug.
20130420 11:55:22< thunderstruck> lipkab, I think it is better to have code which is a bit slower, but won't crash the game :)
20130420 11:55:53< lipkab> Indeed.
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20130420 12:00:05< lipkab> thunderstruck: We're talking about line 2553, right?
20130420 12:00:39< lipkab> Removing that should not pose much performance drop, I think.
20130420 12:01:05< thunderstruck> lipkab, em, I was playing around with the code so I can't tell the number precisely. But it is the code inside '  } else if (apply_to == "new_animation")'.
20130420 12:01:19< lipkab> Yeah, that's it.
20130420 12:01:57< thunderstruck> lipkab, and to be more precise, it is the else part -- there is an 'id'.
20130420 12:02:07< lipkab> std::vector<unit_animation> &built = resources::controller->animation_cache[effect["id"]];
20130420 12:02:26< lipkab> That's the offending line, I guess.
20130420 12:02:28< thunderstruck> yup..
20130420 12:02:42< lipkab> I think that could go.
20130420 12:03:10< lipkab> It only affects effects with new_animation, which is not a very common thing.
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20130420 12:04:14< lipkab> Although it would be nice to know whether this code at some point in the past.
20130420 12:04:34< thunderstruck> lipkab, I'll check that.
20130420 12:04:45< lipkab> If yes, then the thing that broke it could have broken other stuff as well.
20130420 12:05:17< thunderstruck> lipkab, in unit.cpp the only things which accesses controller is this animation stuff.
20130420 12:06:34< thunderstruck> lipkab, it works with 1.10.4
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20130420 12:07:01< lipkab> Yeah, it's fine in 1.10.x, I know that.
20130420 12:07:50< lipkab> It was good in 1.11.x in last October IIRC.
20130420 12:07:50< thunderstruck> lipkab, ok. I'll do some more research later today and see what has been changed.
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20130420 12:08:00< lipkab> Great, thankies.
20130420 12:08:28< thunderstruck> lipkab, my guess is that controller was handled in different way.
20130420 12:10:38< mordante> lipkab, thunderstruck indeed interested in that bug, but haven't looked into it yet
20130420 12:10:51< mordante> also not too familiar with that part of the code
20130420 12:11:38< mordante> but I don't think there are others around who are familiar with the code :-(
20130420 12:11:44< lipkab> thunderstruck: I suspect that, too. At first glance, git log doesn't show anything that would imply that effect apply_to=new_animation was changed.
20130420 12:12:00< lipkab> So it must be the controller.
20130420 12:17:22< AI0867> now running git fsck on the new repo to see if the branches are fully there, just not named
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20130420 12:19:16< mordante> nice AI0867, btw you saw esr also replied?
20130420 12:20:28< AI0867> yeah
20130420 12:20:43< AI0867> and as you noted, he seems to have missed the noted problems
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20130420 12:24:56< kratos> mordante, Where to get the source code to do easycoding tasks ( in VC10)?
20130420 12:25:59< mordante> kratos, we're in the process of moving to GitHub, not sure how ready the repository there is
20130420 12:26:18< mordante> kratos, but try this repository https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth
20130420 12:26:21< AI0867> git://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth.git <-- this one shoudl work
20130420 12:26:34< AI0867> and yes, that's the same repo
20130420 12:27:46< kratos> Thanks .. This can be compiled in VC10 right?
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20130420 12:29:33< mordante> I never tried it (I don't use Windows) but the instructions are on the wiki http://wiki.wesnoth.org/CompilingWesnothOnWindows
20130420 12:34:11< kratos> mordante, How are we supposed to get our code to the coding problems evaluated?
20130420 12:34:47< mordante> kratos, when you fixed an issue you can post a patch at patches.wesnoth.org
20130420 12:34:59< mordante> that patch will be reviewed there
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20130420 12:36:41< kratos> Thanks for the help, I will start working on it now.
20130420 12:36:55< _8680_> Are macros in the paths of #ifhave-s expanded?
20130420 12:38:53< AI0867> shadowm: ^
20130420 12:39:03< AI0867> oh wait, that's ifver
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20130420 12:40:35< AI0867> _8680_: IIRC it checks if the argument is a defined macro or existing file
20130420 12:40:58< AI0867> or possibly just an existing file, we have ifdef for macros
20130420 12:41:39< _8680_> If I have `#ifhave {XYZ}/foo/bar`, it won’t expand XYZ?
20130420 12:42:01< AI0867> I don't know
20130420 12:42:03< AI0867> try testing it =P
20130420 12:42:14< _8680_> Thanks anyway.
20130420 12:42:17< AI0867> and then post the results on the wiki: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/PreprocessorRef
20130420 12:42:20< _8680_> I don’t really need it.
20130420 12:42:33< _8680_> Maybe someday when I have more time.
20130420 12:44:42< mordante> AI0867, might be esr is not aware of all issues (regarding his post on the dev-ml)
20130420 12:46:52< AI0867> yeah
20130420 12:47:06< AI0867> despite the fact that we told him this when he was last on irc
20130420 12:48:29< AI0867> which was april 18 ~2200 UTC
20130420 12:48:56< mordante> yup, but might be wise to mail the remaining issues to him, to make sure he's aware of them
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20130420 13:00:25< _8680_> Wesnoth reloads all the WML when a campaign is started, correct?
20130420 13:00:57< _8680_> Or was there some optimization applied to make it only reload the WML after the [campaign] tag?
20130420 13:05:25< AI0867> it reprocesses everything with the campaign's define(s)
20130420 13:05:38< AI0867> of course, the results of this might be cached
20130420 13:07:19< _8680_> But if there is an #ifdef CAMPAIGN_FOO_BAR above Foo Bar’s [campaign] tag, it will be processed?
20130420 13:11:23< AI0867> if the [campaign] is hidden by its own ifdef, then it won't be visible in the campaigns list
20130420 13:11:47< AI0867> and you can't start it from the commandline either, as wesnoth won't know which define to define
20130420 13:11:56< AI0867> (though you could perhaps do that by hand)
20130420 13:12:15< _8680_> No, the campaign is ouside the #ifdef.
20130420 13:12:45< _8680_> There are two campaign #ifdef-s, one above and one below the [campaign] tag.
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20130420 13:19:14< AI0867> well, *all* the WML will be reprocessed
20130420 13:19:39< AI0867> the preprocessor isn't intelligent enough to do the optimization you suggest
20130420 13:20:37< _8680_> Okay, thanks.
20130420 13:20:40< AI0867> (and it's too powerful for that to work reliably, as you might define/redefine macros in an ifdef, which will then affect things on the outside)
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20130420 14:11:40< Zazweda> Hey all, I have a question about the hex pos, (0,0) is topleft ?
20130420 14:11:44-!- TheMonster [~TheMonste@41.69.215.174] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130420 14:12:21< Zazweda> jsaispa
20130420 14:19:46< TheMonster> who can I contact to ask about the Addon Server Idea for GSoC ?
20130420 14:20:36< Zazweda> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SoC_Ideas_Addon_Server_2013
20130420 14:20:40< Zazweda> I would say mordante 
20130420 14:21:40< TheMonster> yeah I checked that link.
20130420 14:21:52< TheMonster> ok thanks.
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20130420 14:27:00< PL_kolek> I'd like to play a little with the AI. Is there a possibility to copy RCA AI, rename it, modify and play against it? Or I'm doing it wrong?
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20130420 14:54:08< Trademark_> hello
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20130420 15:00:42< Trademark_> mordante, hi, about the automatic sync with wescamp, does the addon-server will store po file ? Or does we'll just rely on the wescamp server ?
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20130420 15:29:01< faabumc> Hi, is there a known issue with carryover gold in SVN latest?
20130420 15:36:30< lipkab> faabumc: There's no more SVN latest :P
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20130420 15:36:54< lipkab> But there's some gold issue I heard of.
20130420 15:37:25< faabumc> hi lipkab
20130420 15:37:58< lipkab> Nah, that's not about carryover.
20130420 15:38:10< lipkab> I don't know, then.
20130420 15:38:20< lipkab> faabumc: Nice see you again, btw.
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20130420 15:38:35< faabumc> seems the percentage is always 80% whatever percantage is in the scenario
20130420 15:41:42< faabumc> it is quite easy to test
20130420 15:42:25< faabumc> anyway I will get a fix only after I switch to git :S
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20130420 16:06:24< flix> mattsc: hey! I spend the whole night bothering with the LUA-Stack and know it's working!
20130420 16:06:47< mattsc> flix: great!
20130420 16:07:27< flix> mattsc: wanted to ask you: is it enough when this function *only* gets the unit ID-String as parameter?
20130420 16:08:37< mattsc> flix, in principle yes, the probably is that it is possible for there to be duplicate IDs.
20130420 16:09:10< mattsc> So either the hex coordinates or underlying_id would be better, but you definitely do not need to pass the entire unit.
20130420 16:09:29< mattsc> s/probably/problem    d'oh!
20130420 16:09:37< flix> mattsc: really? I couldn't create 2 units with the same id
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20130420 16:10:18< mattsc> I thought it was possible.  I know it _was_ possible, maybe it isn't any more?
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20130420 16:11:53< flix> mattsc: maybe there are some fancy cases... but I think it won't work by just giving the same IDs in the [unit] tags, I'll check it again...
20130420 16:13:07< mattsc> flix: ok, thanks.  I do know that leader IDs for MP games started from the commandline used to have their faction names as IDs and were identical when the 2 sides were the same faction.
20130420 16:13:18< mattsc> I fixed that some while ago, so that's not the case any more.
20130420 16:14:07< mattsc> Also, it is probably possible to create units with the same using Lua, and I don't know how modifying a unit deals with assigning an ID that already exists.
20130420 16:14:14< mordante> Trademark_, not yet determined, do you have a suggestion?
20130420 16:14:33< mattsc> So I think it's better to be safe than sorry and use something that cannot be duplicate, like the hex or underlying_id.
20130420 16:16:25< flix> mattsc: can you easily query the unit when you have the underlying_id or the hex?
20130420 16:16:36< mattsc> PL_kolek: You do not need to copy the RCA AI to have it play against itself.
20130420 16:16:48< mattsc> flix: no problem whatsoever  (you mean in Lua, right?)
20130420 16:16:53< flix> mattsc: yes
20130420 16:17:53< mattsc> flix: hex is slightly easier though, IIRC
20130420 16:18:10< flix> mattsc: btw: it's very easy for me to change it... 1 or two lines
20130420 16:18:13< PL_kolek> Nope, I wanted to make my changes and than make it play against itself. But... I figured out what to do.
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20130420 16:18:35< TheMonster> mordante, I know C++ but I know nothing about the boost library. It is said that it can be learned during the process. What else should I know other than c++ ?
20130420 16:18:40< mattsc> PL_kolek: ok, that's what I meant too.  Glad you figured it out.
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20130420 16:20:27< mattsc> flix: sounds good
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20130420 16:20:35< PL_kolek> One question to be sure. Thats currently the best way to modify AI: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Lua_AI_Howto ?
20130420 16:20:52< mordante> TheMonster, it would be a good idea to look at boost and specifically boost asio
20130420 16:21:18< mordante> but learning about boost will be interesting for every C++ developer
20130420 16:21:27< mattsc> PL_kolek: I don't know if it's the best, but in my opinion it is the easiest.
20130420 16:21:43< mordante> we also like our students to work on patches
20130420 16:22:07< mordante> do you have questions regarding the Addon server task?
20130420 16:22:17< mattsc> PL_kolek: that page is a bit outdated though.  It works, but there are subtle ways to do it better.
20130420 16:22:37< TheMonster> yeah, where can I find the code for the server, mordante ?
20130420 16:22:48< TheMonster> I mean the one running now
20130420 16:23:14< mattsc> I'd suggest you use the Micro AIs (either in data/ai/micro_ais or in the AI-demos add-on) as templates if you want to use Lua AI.
20130420 16:23:24< PL_kolek> Cool :). I missed one information on that page though: where to put that code, and that what I found out.
20130420 16:23:32< mordante> did you already download the Wesnoth source code?
20130420 16:23:45< TheMonster> I'm downloading it
20130420 16:24:29< mattsc> PL_kolek: great.  If you have questions, just ask here, even if the right persons are not around.  We all read the logs.
20130420 16:25:05< mordante> the source is in the campaign_server directory but it uses parts of the main wesnoth directory as well
20130420 16:25:19< PL_kolek> I experienced that already, thanks ;)
20130420 16:25:33< mordante> what compiler will you be using?
20130420 16:26:04< TheMonster> I have visual C++ express 2005 & 2010 
20130420 16:27:03< mordante> the instructions for Windows are here http://wiki.wesnoth.org/CompilingWesnothOnWindows
20130420 16:27:27< TheMonster> yeah, I saw them. Thanks, mordante
20130420 16:27:32< mordante> fendrin, around
20130420 16:27:38< PL_kolek> mattsc: Can I use Micro-AIs in skirmish? I still want to change something and then see it working (or not...).
20130420 16:27:45< mordante> ok just wanted to make sure you found them
20130420 16:28:05< mordante> compiling on Windows seems to be harder than compiling on Linux
20130420 16:28:26< TheMonster> one more question, if possible. In C++ I know OOP and pointers (I mean that's the farthest thing I know)
20130420 16:28:35< TheMonster> would that be ok?
20130420 16:29:06< TheMonster> I can ofcourse learn others if essential
20130420 16:29:28< mordante> there's no maximum of number of questions you may ask ;-)
20130420 16:29:44< TheMonster> ok, that's great :)
20130420 16:30:25< TheMonster> I just want to know if my level of experience is enough for a project like this or not
20130420 16:30:35< mordante> it's hard to judge whether you know enough, but we don't expect experienced developers
20130420 16:31:18< mordante> the project aims at students
20130420 16:31:41< TheMonster> Ok. I guess I should read the code for the server and see if I can understand it or not
20130420 16:31:52< mordante> we do like people who are eager to learn
20130420 16:32:29< mordante> after all at the end of the summer we hope the student has earned some money and gained a lot of new knowledge
20130420 16:32:55< TheMonster> oh that's great. I actually like to learn
20130420 16:33:15< mordante> good
20130420 16:33:28< TheMonster> but during searching for GSoC projects I find it's a bit hard to understand everything easily
20130420 16:34:13< TheMonster> While exploring the code for the project, I can ask here if I don't understand a specific thing, right?
20130420 16:34:27< mordante> of course
20130420 16:35:02< mordante> http://devdocs.wesnoth.org/ might also help to navigate the source
20130420 16:35:46< TheMonster> ok thanks, mordante
20130420 16:36:00< mordante> you're welcome
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20130420 16:37:28< mattsc> PL_kolek: I'm not sure I understand what you mean
20130420 16:37:36< mordante> also don't forget to create a wiki page for your application
20130420 16:38:07< TheMonster> yeah, ok. 
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20130420 16:39:25< mattsc> PL_kolek: I think the answer is probably yes, but as I said, I'm not entirely sure what you mean.
20130420 16:40:07< mattsc> Also, you don't actually need to use the MAI formalism, that's just a wrapper to enable easy implementation of an AI in a scenario (using only WML)
20130420 16:40:21< mattsc> s/implementation/inclusion
20130420 16:40:44< PL_kolek> Ah, I read again what you said earlier and now I know i'm completely wrong. Sorry.
20130420 16:41:07< mattsc> PL_kolek: have a look at how the test scenario in AI demos is set up.  In that one, you can simply test AI code with a right-click option.
20130420 16:41:35< mattsc> You don't even have to reload.  Just change the Lua code, save, right-click again and it will test the new code.
20130420 16:41:41< PL_kolek> You wanted me to look at the MAI code as an example/template to work on my AI actions.
20130420 16:42:06< PL_kolek> I've seen that in the article about LuaAI, I'll setup it like that.
20130420 16:42:31< mattsc> PL_kolek: yes, sure, just saying that you can skip the setting up of the [micro_ai] tag.  The actual AI code is exactly the same.
20130420 16:43:17< mattsc> I'd still set up the engines the way it is done in the MAIs these days, rather than what it says on the wiki page.
20130420 16:43:31< mattsc> (I really should update that wiki page  :P )
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20130420 16:44:19< mattsc> And then I just added that for testing, the way it is done in the test scenario is super simple and quick.  :)
20130420 16:44:27< PL_kolek> I would appreciate that!
20130420 16:45:04< PL_kolek> OK, now I have some new techniques to learn. Don't worry, I'll be back. With lots of new questions :)
20130420 16:45:05< mattsc> PL_kolek: I don't think that I can do that within the next couple days, unfortunately ...
20130420 16:45:23< mattsc> Sounds good.
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20130420 16:57:16< mattsc> PL_kolek: the reason why I haven't updated the page is that the current method of doing is is going to change again and I don't want to put a lot of time into something that I then have to redo again later.
20130420 16:57:32< mattsc> Unfortunately, we've been at the "almost done" stage for a long time now ...
20130420 16:58:57< PL_kolek> No problem. As I see the AI the development is the most active at the moment.
20130420 17:01:27< mattsc> PL_kolek: but only recently.  There was little going on for quite a while, so this is a great development (in my biased opinion)
20130420 17:02:15< PL_kolek> I downloaded your plugin from inside wesnoth. Where I can find the files? (I have compiled, not installed wesnoth)
20130420 17:02:24< mattsc> Although, the GSoC period has always been quite active for AI work I think.  Definitely since Crab_ did his GSoC project.
20130420 17:02:59< mattsc> PL_kolek: they are in your user directory in add-ons/
20130420 17:03:18-!- kkthecoder [~kk@49.136.183.92] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
20130420 17:03:55< mattsc> Note though that that version is quite a bit older than the current development version on github
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20130420 17:05:35< PL_kolek> I got that. For reference it was in: .local/share/wesnoth/1.11/data/add-ons
20130420 17:06:59< mattsc> PL_kolek: the user-dir location depends on your OS
20130420 17:07:38< mattsc> PL_kolek: so you're all set for now?  (I have to run off again shortly)
20130420 17:08:38< PL_kolek> I hope so. Thank you very much.
20130420 17:10:01< mattsc> PL_kolek: np.  I'll be here on and off throughout the day, but possibly with long off periods.
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20130420 17:50:05< mordante> fendrin, LordBob_ the code for the palette window seems to work now only needs more polishing for an initial version which I'll look at later
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20130420 18:26:52< thunderstruck> The question 5.1) In the GSoC students questionnaire asks about Subversion.
20130420 18:27:00< thunderstruck> I think it should be changed to Git.
20130420 18:27:30< thunderstruck> So, I'll edit the page if no one minds.
20130420 18:33:14< tokliw> speaking of GSoC
20130420 18:33:54< tokliw> does anybody know which parts of the code constitute the AI recruitment?
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20130420 19:12:03< Trademark_> mordante, in my opinion, I'd suggest to store the .po files in only one place. So they would be on the addon server until the sync flag has been received and then move to wescamp. However, if some performance issues arise, we could consider keeping it on the addon server too (but I think it would be harder to maintain a coherent state between wescamp and the addon server).
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20130420 19:15:09< AI0867> Trademark_: the sync process generates the PO file
20130420 19:15:23< AI0867> though the sync process is currently done by an external script
20130420 19:19:05< perennate> mordante: I was wondering if there was more information on the gsoc idea to improve the server code
20130420 19:19:18< Smar> Asami Sanada, Miyuki Sawashiro, Kyoko Hikami — Ready Go! (From album: Di Gi Charat The Best II Special Edition)
20130420 19:19:21< Smar> whoop
20130420 19:19:22< Smar> wrong chan.
20130420 19:19:34< Smar> ignore.
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20130420 19:24:40< shadowm> esr: Are you even remotely available on IRC now or not?
20130420 19:25:16< shadowm> Giving you one hour, then email.
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20130420 19:29:53< fendrin> hi mordante
20130420 19:30:20< fendrin> LordBob_: tx, I will do something with it.
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20130420 19:56:17< fendrin> LordBob_: Most of the images are jpg. Is this intentional?
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20130420 20:11:43< molgrum_> i can't compile with code::blocks, can someone help me?
20130420 20:14:26< shadowm> fendrin: I think this forum topic is for you (make sure to read it thoroughly, it's kind of confusing): http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=38680
20130420 20:18:51< fendrin> shadowm: Indeed, it confuses me.
20130420 20:18:56< fendrin> :-)
20130420 20:19:18< fendrin> F5 works when there are no other hotkey bindings?
20130420 20:20:25< Trademark_> AI0867, sorry for the latency. I don't understand what you means with "generates the PO files". The PO file is made by the translator, isn't it ?
20130420 20:24:44< shadowm> fendrin: The only thing I really know is that it works for me with my current configuration.
20130420 20:25:01< shadowm> Which apparently does include the f5 assignment to title_screen__reload_wml.
20130420 20:25:53< fendrin> I will have a look at the issue.
20130420 20:26:02< shadowm> It also seems to work with a fresh config.
20130420 20:26:38< AI0867> Trademark_: it's originally generated from the POT (PO template) that is generated by wescamp.py
20130420 20:26:55< shadowm> That is, one where there are no hotkey bindings explicitly defined in WML in the preferences file.
20130420 20:26:56< AI0867> the translator then works on the po, but he does not necessarily create it
20130420 20:27:26< fendrin> shadowm: Ah yes, If you delete all hotkeys the engine will fall back to the defaults.
20130420 20:27:34< AI0867> and no worries about slow responses, my client is always on, even if I'm not here
20130420 20:28:56< shadowm> fendrin: Yes, except that there is a difference between doing that and just starting with a fresh (missing) preferences file.
20130420 20:29:04< shadowm> The difference being that reseting all hotkeys to their defaults _actually records the defaults in the preferences file_.
20130420 20:29:24< fendrin> yes
20130420 20:30:18< fendrin> I could change that and save only those who differ from the default.
20130420 20:31:13< shadowm> If you are resetting all hotkeys, isn't that effectively "none"?
20130420 20:31:42< shadowm> Oh right, the changes aren't written back to disk immediately.
20130420 20:36:04< Trademark_> AI0867, ok ;-) So the translator must request a po file from wescamp and then work on the generated one's ?
20130420 20:37:44< AI0867> well, you can create your own with the pot file, but you still need to get that from wescamp
20130420 20:38:30< AI0867> you can get links at gettext.wesnoth.org: http://www.wesnoth.org/gettext/?package=wesnoth-The_Dark_Hordes&order=trans&version=branch
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20130420 20:42:32< mordante> thunderstruck, good catch regarding SVN
20130420 20:44:24< mordante> tokliw, search for recruit in the AI directory or try to contact Crab_
20130420 20:45:26< thunderstruck> mordante, I wonder how other students didn't notice it :) I'll update the wiki now, 'cause when I tried the last time it didn't work for me.
20130420 20:45:42< mordante> Trademark_, that might be possible another option is to have them is wescamp and use a checkout on the server to grab them
20130420 20:46:20< mordante> perennate, anything specific you want to know?
20130420 20:47:31< perennate> I guess I'm not really sure what specific features are desired in the server
20130420 20:47:46< perennate> besides the language 
20130420 20:47:54< mordante> molgrum_, any specific issue you have (unfortunately we don't have many Windows developers)
20130420 20:47:56< perennate> configurable language I guess
20130420 20:49:20< Trademark_> AI0867, ok I get it now
20130420 20:49:27< mordante> thunderstruck, well some might have had a checkout before we moved (looking at you for example :-P)
20130420 20:49:45< molgrum_> mordante: says that static_cast is undeclared, some missing library perhaps?
20130420 20:50:01< mordante> Trademark_, also the po file might need to be remerged after the a pot-update
20130420 20:50:35< Trademark_> mordante, ok, but it's not the work of the addon server right ?
20130420 20:50:36< mordante> molgrum_, are you sure you use a c++ compiler and not a c compiler static_cast is a language feature
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20130420 20:50:43< mattsc> tokliw: the RCA AI recruiting code is in src/ai/testing/ca_testing_recruitment.cpp
20130420 20:51:07< mordante> Trademark_, no 
20130420 20:51:28< mordante> perennate, some of them need to be discussed and haven't been cast in stone yet
20130420 20:51:45< mordante> perennate, but we also like to mark addons to be of a certain type
20130420 20:52:28< Trademark_> mordante, I'm not sure that storing the .po file in two places is a good idea. However, I have another idea to make the po retreival time invisible to the user. You begin to send the addon without the po file and during this time you retreive the po file that you send after
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20130420 20:53:37< shadowm> Yes, we in fact llike to mark add-ons to be of a certain type -- I implemented this in production for 1.6 I believe.
20130420 20:53:41< shadowm> *like
20130420 20:53:45< shadowm> (As opposed to "would like".)
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20130420 20:54:35< PL_kolek> mattsc, is the easy coding page up to date now?
20130420 20:54:59< mattsc> Zazweda: ai_helper.next_hop() returns nil if there is no path to the goal.
20130420 20:55:10< mattsc> See l.766 here: https://github.com/mattsc/Wesnoth-AI-Demos/blob/master/lua/ai_helper.lua#L755
20130420 20:55:41< mattsc> I thought the comments at the end of the function said that, but they don't.  I'll add that, thanks.
20130420 20:55:54< mattsc> PL_kolek: yes, it should be.
20130420 20:56:12< PL_kolek> (BTW I managed to write my MicroAI for recruitment, that mirrors the opponent)
20130420 20:56:30< mordante> Trademark_, what would be wrong with storing it in a checkout with the addon server. If the svn/git/whaterver update fails since the connection is down we have a local backup else we can make sure the latest version is there
20130420 20:56:34< mattsc> PL_kolek: great
20130420 20:56:44< PL_kolek> How do you that "Add deprecation messages for those." in the code? Some special logger, function?
20130420 20:57:25< mordante> Trademark_, with GitHub it might even be possible to send notification to the server when an update is there and then directly pull the changes
20130420 20:58:12< mordante> Trademark_, not sure whether that's technically possible (I guess is), but AI0867 probably knows the answer to that question
20130420 20:59:32< mattsc> PL_kolek: tbh, I don't know.  I would approach that by doing a grep for already existing deprecation messages (there are a whole bunch of them).
20130420 21:01:37< PL_kolek> That's what I'm doing... Asked in case there is some standard way and somebody could explain it shortly.
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20130420 21:03:15< fendrin> hi mordante
20130420 21:03:23< mordante> hi fendrin 
20130420 21:04:30< mattsc> PL_kolek: I'm sure somebody can, but not I  :)
20130420 21:08:07< PL_kolek> To this point you seemed to be a person who knows everything about the code ;)
20130420 21:08:42< mattsc> Oh man, I must have been fooling you well then.  :D
20130420 21:09:40< mordante> fendrin, what I'm still wondering about is how to call the feature that the dialog disappears when you click outside it, any suggestions
20130420 21:10:04< mordante> (it does work, just not sure about a good name, and foo is not a good name)
20130420 21:10:45< lipkab> dismiss-on-focus-lost
20130420 21:11:00< PL_kolek> If you want to know something more, the logger is: std::stringstream wml_error
20130420 21:11:34< PL_kolek> Now I can again thnk you know everything :P
20130420 21:11:52< mattsc> Cool, thanks.   Good.  :)
20130420 21:12:12< mattsc> ... and I have to be off again.  Ciao.
20130420 21:12:32< PL_kolek> Cya
20130420 21:13:02< thunderstruck> mordante, are you going to mentor only the addon server project or is it still not known who mentors what projects? 
20130420 21:13:14< fendrin> mordante: dismiss on non focus :-)
20130420 21:13:50< Trademark_> mordante, it's seems to be interesting. However I didn't know that the po file were store on github. Okay I'll go for a local copy then :-)
20130420 21:14:15< mordante> thunderstruck, I'll be mentoring it, there are two mentors, Crab and me. Crab will be mentoring at least one AI project
20130420 21:14:45< mordante> but we don't know how many slots we get (and haven't determined the number we ask for)
20130420 21:15:33< mordante> lipkab, fendrin I really like the word `focus' in the name
20130420 21:16:12< mordante> Trademark_, we were hosted on Berlios and I think AI0867 did the move to GitHub
20130420 21:16:31< thunderstruck> mordante, so if you mentor the addon server project and Crab mentors one of the AI, who could mentor MP support?
20130420 21:17:54< perennate> I found some topics about stats like http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5122 but I don't know if there's been any progress since then
20130420 21:18:55< mordante> thunderstruck, not sure I think Crab, however if we get only 2 slots we will need to decide which students we want to work with
20130420 21:19:06< mordante> (students not projects)
20130420 21:19:08< Trademark_> mordante, ok that's good to know
20130420 21:19:23< perennate> mordante, do you mean two slots total or two slots?
20130420 21:19:33< perennate> oops, do you mean two slots total?*
20130420 21:19:53< Trademark_> two slots, that's all ?? the past year you got 4 or 5
20130420 21:20:03< thunderstruck> mordante, I see. But from your answers it seems that priority is for AI projects. So if there are only 2 slots, MP support project would not happen?
20130420 21:20:42< mordante> Trademark_, there is no guarantee how many slots Google will give us, we ask for x slots and Google decides how many we get
20130420 21:21:13< mordante> it could be even one. IIRC in the past two was the minimum.
20130420 21:21:59< mordante> thunderstruck, no we like to look also at the students we get
20130420 21:23:44< mordante> thunderstruck, the goal is to find students who we think can finish the task
20130420 21:24:58< mordante> thunderstruck, a good example is the addon-server in 2012 a project I wanted to mentor
20130420 21:25:18< mordante> the student was not deemed strong enough so I ended up with an AI project
20130420 21:25:41< mordante> and the addon-server returned on the list this year
20130420 21:28:11< thunderstruck> mordante, ok. Thanks. This whole who mentors what things seems more clear now.
20130420 21:28:32< thunderstruck> s/things seems/thing seem
20130420 21:28:34< mordante> you're welcome
20130420 21:34:49< AI0867> 20:58 < mordante> Trademark_, not sure whether that's technically possible (I guess is), but AI0867 probably knows the answer to that question <-- very much so, POSTing to a random url is one of the (many) github hooks
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20130420 21:36:42< Trademark_> AI0867, that's nice :-)
20130420 21:37:03< AI0867> and that is in fact a future goal
20130420 21:37:56< mordante> thanks AI0867 
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20130420 21:44:11< PL_kolek> I found function deprecate_wml_key_warning in wml_exception.hpp, which generates  nice warning about deprecated key. However, it requires me to give it version in which the key will be removed.
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20130420 21:44:35< PL_kolek> So first question: is that corrrect way to inform user about deprecated aspects?
20130420 21:45:14< mordante> thunderstruck, compiling https://gna.org/patch/?3844 at the moment
20130420 21:45:24< PL_kolek> The second one: If the answer to first one was "yes", when will aspects like "protect_leader" be dropped?
20130420 21:49:20< Zazweda> Hey, I tried to develop a MIA and it seems to be working how an I get it reviewed ?
20130420 21:52:49< lipkab> Zazweda: You ping mattsc and wait.
20130420 21:53:25< lipkab> Well, I've just done the ping part so now you just wait.
20130420 21:53:33< Zazweda> sounds good ^
20130420 21:53:35< Zazweda> ^^
20130420 21:54:50< lipkab> Zazweda: It's also a good idea to upload it somewhere and drop a link here.
20130420 21:55:09< lipkab> Or send him in a forum PM.
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20130420 21:59:39< Zazweda> I'll see by the time I disconnect
20130420 21:59:43< Zazweda> thanks
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20130420 22:04:43< thunderstruck> mordante, are you still compiling it?
20130420 22:06:21< mordante> thunderstruck, no just tested it and it seems to work, now looking at the patch itself
20130420 22:11:04< mordante> thunderstruck, why did you call the variable gamemap_width_offset?
20130420 22:13:54< thunderstruck> mordante, hmm.. Would gamemap_x_offset would be better?
20130420 22:14:19< mordante> thunderstruck, yes
20130420 22:14:58< mordante> thunderstruck, please also have a look at src/gui/auxiliary/canvas.cpp:366
20130420 22:16:24< mordante> thunderstruck, and I think the bug is player visible so also please an update to the player's changelog
20130420 22:16:59< thunderstruck> mordante, ok. No problem.
20130420 22:17:01< mordante> other then that it looks fine to me
20130420 22:18:45< thunderstruck> mordante, I'll fix it tomorrow. I'm currently looking at new_animation bug. Do you think that bisect could help me? I noticed that there is 1.11.x which doesn't have that bug.
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20130420 22:20:01< mordante> if the bug is easily to reproduce a bi-sect often helps
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20130420 22:21:10< thunderstruck> mordante, the bug is easy to reproduce, but there is some clicking involved..
20130420 22:21:53< thunderstruck> mordante, if I start wesnoth with crashtest scenario, I still have to click mouse about 10 times to reproduce it.
20130420 22:22:26< Trademark_> I'm off, bye bye
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20130420 22:22:37< mordante> bye Trademark_ 
20130420 22:23:28< mordante> thunderstruck, ok, of course it can be tricky how many times you need to click, which can screw up bi-secting
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20130420 22:28:43< shadowm> asdf asdf asdf asdf sourceforge.net asdf asdf subversion asdf allura asdf asdf asdf hate asdf
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20130420 22:33:29< mordante> thunderstruck, just a quick question did you check when you use %x where x is an unrecognised format specifier?
20130420 22:34:45< thunderstruck> mordante, there's a switch which checks for format specifiers.
20130420 22:34:54< thunderstruck> mordante, 'default' inside switch handles that.
20130420 22:35:09< mattsc> Zazweda: I'm back now for a little.  Sorry, I'm only here for short amounts of time today ...
20130420 22:35:27< mordante> thunderstruck, I've seen that, just wonder what the standard version does and whether you checked that
20130420 22:36:13< thunderstruck> mordante, I cannot guarantee if it will work precisely as the standard version in this case.
20130420 22:36:20< thunderstruck> mordante, although I think it does.
20130420 22:36:39< mattsc> Zazweda: I left you a message up there ^ while you were offline, but it seems you figured it out on your own.
20130420 22:36:48< thunderstruck> mordante, but as I stated in my patch, the misuse of function can give different results compared to standard strftime
20130420 22:37:06< Zazweda> mattsc: I can give a pastebin
20130420 22:37:25< mordante> thunderstruck, true, just wondered whether you checked it
20130420 22:37:31< thunderstruck> mordante, simply because documentation doesn't provide me with such information
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20130420 22:38:10< mattsc> Zazweda: sure; either that or upload it somewhere and send me a link
20130420 22:38:43< Zazweda> mattsc: http://pastebin.com/JX0yCMnD
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20130420 22:39:20< mattsc> Zazweda: can you give me a quick summary of what you want it to do?
20130420 22:39:23< thunderstruck> mordante, I've started bisecting. Git tells me only 11 steps.
20130420 22:39:46< thunderstruck> mordante, but with my compile time I might not be able to finish today.
20130420 22:42:07< shadowm> Now I see why I was not looking forward migrating Wesnoth-UMC-Dev to Allura.
20130420 22:42:12< shadowm> The repository is 1.4 GiB in size.
20130420 22:42:44< shadowm> Or 1.5 GiB, says du -sh.
20130420 22:43:06< mordante> thunderstruck, 11 steps is quite some recompilation indeed
20130420 22:43:25< shadowm> esr: I bet your repository wasn't as big.
20130420 22:43:30< shadowm> Not that you will ever read that message.
20130420 22:43:58< mordante> thunderstruck, http://en.cppreference.com/w/c/chrono/strftime seems not to clearly specify what happens and I don't have the C standard around
20130420 22:44:39< Zazweda>  It's basically an AI that guards a zone. If no enemy is detected it moves from one side of the zone to the other randomly. when one enemy comes close or in the zone (zone square +1 hex) the guardian is going to attack ot
20130420 22:44:59< thunderstruck> mordante, I wrote a couple of programs to test my strftime. I could send you that if you are interested.
20130420 22:45:43< mordante> thunderstruck, that would be nice
20130420 22:46:21< thunderstruck> mordante, email?
20130420 22:46:55< mordante> yes please
20130420 22:47:02< lipkab> shadowm: AtS has an interesting bug on master.
20130420 22:47:25< mattsc> Zazweda: I don't have time to review this in detail right now, but after a first very quick looks, there are 2 things I'd prefer to do differently (my personal opinion, feel free to convince me otherwise):
20130420 22:47:25< lipkab> I was playing scenario 3 and suddenly a level 4 shaxthal popped out of the nothing.
20130420 22:47:26< mattsc> 1.
20130420 22:47:43< lipkab> shadowm: Without even saying a hello or something.
20130420 22:47:49< shadowm> lipkab: Which third scenario?
20130420 22:47:54< mattsc> 1. You define your zone as a rectangle.  It would be nice if it could be defined arbitrarily using a Standard Location Filter.
20130420 22:48:03< lipkab> shadowm: Ep3.
20130420 22:48:15< shadowm> lipkab: There are exactly three scenarios which can be called "scenario 3"-- okay.
20130420 22:48:31< mattsc> You can then set up the SLF to describe a rectangle, if you want to, but other options are possible also.
20130420 22:48:31< shadowm> lipkab: That's not a bug.
20130420 22:48:37< shadowm> Assuming it's the Shaxthal Warlord.
20130420 22:49:36< thunderstruck> mordante, email is sent. Those programs' code is a mess IIRC.
20130420 22:49:43< lipkab> shadowm: At least some indication that "hey, I'm here and am going to kill you" woudl be nice.
20130420 22:49:46< lipkab> *would
20130420 22:49:59< shadowm> mordante, Soliton, Ivanovic, whoever else is interested in the SVN conversion to Git that was never quite as finished as you thought: I sent an email about that matter to the current ML thread.
20130420 22:50:07< thunderstruck> mordante, but to use is something like that './test_strftime "%b %a" 0'
20130420 22:50:10< Zazweda> mattsc: Ok I will look into it
20130420 22:50:16< shadowm> I mean, I tried to send.
20130420 22:50:23< mattsc> Zazweda: 2. I'd also prefer to pick a real random location from anywhere in the zone for the random wonder (also, that part of the code seems to be there twice, but I haven't checked out yet why  that is the case)
20130420 22:50:33< thunderstruck> mordante, where 0 is seconds after 1970.
20130420 22:50:59< mordante> thunderstruck, got it, the code is not that bad, some of the stuff here looks a lot worse (needs serious polishing before committing)
20130420 22:51:09< mattsc> Zazweda: several of the Micro AIs already use SLFs, so you can check those out.
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20130420 22:51:30< Zazweda> mattsc: yes this is the case I have to do more testing to remove one of both, but the first is there if no enemy is detected, and the second one if no enemy is reachable
20130420 22:51:43< shadowm> Okay, resent.
20130420 22:51:52< thunderstruck> mordante, I was talking about those files I sent you just now. Are you saying that my strftime needs polishing?
20130420 22:51:54< shadowm> lipkab: He can't kill you.
20130420 22:51:54< mordante> thunderstruck, thanks will have a look tomorrow, about to leeave
20130420 22:51:56< mordante> leave*
20130420 22:52:26< lipkab> shadowm: But I can't kill him either.
20130420 22:52:27< shadowm> lipkab: Unless you are playing on a version older than 0.9.1.
20130420 22:52:30< mordante> thunderstruck, no I was talking about the files as well that they don't look too bad
20130420 22:52:34< shadowm> lipkab: Yeah, that's normal.
20130420 22:52:36< mattsc> Zazweda: ok.  Maybe you could put the code into a function then rather than duplicating it?  But as I said, I'm kind of pressed for time right now, so haven't really looked at it yet.
20130420 22:52:55< mordante> thunderstruck, haven't looked at the patch yet, just recalled the % issues from the last time I looked
20130420 22:52:59< mattsc> Zazweda: and on that note, I have to be off again for half an hour or so.  Sorry, that's just how today seems to be going.  :P
20130420 22:53:11< Zazweda> yep I will try to make it right before I leave tonight
20130420 22:53:48< thunderstruck> mordante, ahh. ok. By the way, I got into some issues with bisection. Do you have a minute to look at it?
20130420 22:54:00< mattsc> Well, it's not a question of right or wrong, what you have looks pretty good for what I have seen.  Now we'll just generalize it a little more.
20130420 22:54:06< mordante> thunderstruck, yes what's the issue?
20130420 22:54:08< mattsc> bbl
20130420 22:54:16< lipkab> shadowm: Ok.
20130420 22:54:37< thunderstruck> mordante, after setting 'git bisect good 'somehash', I get error: Your local changes to the following files would be overwritten by checkout:
20130420 22:56:21< Zazweda> mattsc: general is often the "right" way ^^"
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20130420 22:57:29< perennate> thunderstruck, you could git stash and then git stash pop
20130420 22:57:44< perennate> thunderstruck, not sure exactly what you're doing though
20130420 22:58:04< thunderstruck> perennate, I was doing a bisection.
20130420 22:58:20< mordante> on a dirty checkout?
20130420 22:58:52< thunderstruck> mordante, I don't recall that.
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20130420 22:59:09< thunderstruck> mordante, oh well, I need to learn more git.
20130420 22:59:53< shadowm> thunderstruck: git status should show you what files have local/uncommitted changes, and git diff should display those changes (assuming they weren't staged for commit).
20130420 22:59:53< mordante> I would look with git diff at the differences and if you care about the do as perennate advised
20130420 23:02:17< mordante> I'm off now, night
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20130420 23:02:58< thunderstruck> shadowm, I knew those commands, I'm just not sure where to those changes came from.
20130420 23:03:09< thunderstruck> I'm going off too, bye.
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20130420 23:04:18< AI0867> shadowm: esr decided to make website and resources subdirs of master
20130420 23:04:29< shadowm> What.
20130420 23:04:30< shadowm> Why.
20130420 23:04:36< AI0867> no idea
20130420 23:04:53< shadowm> Does this mean we did come to a consensus on the matter when I wasn't looking?
20130420 23:05:15< AI0867> no, it means nobody offered an opinion, so esr did what he thought was best
20130420 23:05:38< shadowm> I suppose then my email is rendered pointless. We wouldn't want to undo that now.
20130420 23:05:44< shadowm> :|
20130420 23:06:47< shadowm> shadowm@nanacore:~$ du -sh src/wesnoth/resources
20130420 23:06:47< shadowm> 284M    src/wesnoth/resources
20130420 23:07:04< shadowm> :|
20130420 23:07:47 * shadowm sighs deeply and goes back to getting tedious stuff accomplished.
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20130420 23:10:30 * vultraz wonders how big a file he's going to have to download
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20130420 23:35:28< mattsc> Zazweda: I am back for little.  I would prefer to review your code once you have made those changes, but is there anything specifically you would like me to look at?
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20130420 23:37:24< Zazweda> mattsc: I just finished implementing the function to move randomly
20130420 23:38:08< Zazweda> http://pastebin.com/3FCTZha1
20130420 23:38:16< mattsc> in an arbitrarily shaped zone?
20130420 23:38:24< Zazweda> not yet
20130420 23:38:39< Zazweda> I will modify the shape of the zone tommorrow morning probably
20130420 23:38:46< mattsc> because you'll have to redo that once the zone is not rectangular any more, right?
20130420 23:39:01< Zazweda> yep I know, I was just trying to familiarize with the concept
20130420 23:39:07< mattsc> and actually, it will get easier  :)
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20130420 23:39:58< Zazweda> mattsc: any idea of MAI where it's used ?
20130420 23:40:00< mattsc> What you want is set up a SLF, then you read all the hexes defined by the filter into an array, and just pick one of them at random.
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20130420 23:40:16< mattsc> The Goto MAI that I just set up uses one.
20130420 23:40:29< Zazweda> ok I will look at it
20130420 23:40:34< mattsc> Also Lurkers and others, I think.
20130420 23:41:01< mattsc> Just search the Micro AI wiki page for the term, you should find several examples.
20130420 23:41:13< Zazweda> ok
20130420 23:42:04< mattsc> Zazweda: anything you want me to look at right now?
20130420 23:42:11< Zazweda> nop thanks
20130420 23:42:27< mattsc> Cool.  Thanks.
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--- Log closed Sun Apr 21 00:00:13 2013