--- Log opened Mon Apr 29 00:00:17 2013
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20130429 00:34:18< irker600> Wesnoth: fendrin :master * 3bdeb8c / src/display.cpp: http://git.io/_jNRJg
20130429 00:34:19< irker600> Wesnoth: Switch [panel] drawing from scaling to tiling.
20130429 00:43:43< AI0867> Ivanovic: 20:39 < fabi_> Soliton: I guess the problem is that AI0867 did not add my github account to the members list. <-- 'fendrin' is a member
20130429 00:45:43< AI0867> ah, right shadowm fixed that an hour ago
20130429 00:45:58< AI0867> fabi_: what is lordbob's username?
20130429 00:49:09< LordBob_> AI0867: I don't think I have one yet. In fact, I don't know *anything* about Github and it's ample time I filled in those blanks
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20130429 00:56:47< AI0867> okay, well, you need an account (obviously)
20130429 00:56:58< AI0867> do you know what a public key is?
20130429 00:57:06< AI0867> also, which OS are you using?
20130429 00:57:50< LordBob_> AI0867: 1. account created 2. In theory yes, but I wouldn't recognize one if it hit me 3. Mac OSX
20130429 00:58:09< AI0867> k
20130429 00:58:27< AI0867> okay, lordbob has been added
20130429 00:58:43< anonymissimus> AI0867: apropos keys; I hope you didn't post yours in that senseless encrytion thread :P
20130429 00:58:53< AI0867> anonymissimus: lol
20130429 00:58:57< AI0867> that was AES encrypted
20130429 00:59:23< AI0867> with the result base64 encoded
20130429 01:00:56< mattsc> LordBob_: for OS X there's a really easy to use GUI for github for lazy people like me.
20130429 01:01:19< LordBob_> AI0867: thanks for adding me. I'll go through the Github welcome tour and ask questions later
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20130429 01:03:09< LordBob_> mattsc: I think I've found it ; a "Github for Mac" download complete with setup instruction. Lazy works for me as well ^^
20130429 01:03:56< bumbadadabum> I use the command line
20130429 01:04:06< bumbadadabum> because I'm not lazy
20130429 01:04:31< bumbadadabum> (actually it's because I'm too lazy to find a github GUI that works on 10.6.8)
20130429 01:05:39< LordBob_> unfortunately, I don't speak command line. :p
20130429 01:06:10< mattsc> bumbadadabum: I'm using it on 10.6.8 because I'm too lazy to update my OS  ;)
20130429 01:06:23< mattsc> Am I winning the "I'm the laziest" contest yet?
20130429 01:06:31< LordBob_> And now,  g'night people
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20130429 01:06:41< mattsc> bonne nuit
20130429 01:06:49< bumbadadabum> I couldn't even wish him a good night
20130429 01:09:01< shadowm> Soliton: You missed the first link to the repository in wiki.wesnoth.org/WesnothRepository; fixed now. <http://wiki.wesnoth.org/index.php?title=WesnothRepository&diff=50560&oldid=50554>
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20130429 01:18:48< anonymissimus> no need for "unix-like" on that page; the stuff applies for windows just as well
20130429 01:19:18< anonymissimus> why is it wesnoth-old btw, what's old about it ?
20130429 01:20:26< mattsc> anonymissimus: esr fixed a couple things in the SF repository before moving it to github.  So "old" means "before those fixes".
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20130429 01:20:49< anonymissimus> actually, I didn't even notice a single difference as far as git command line commands are concerned between windows and Linux
20130429 01:20:59< shadowm> Attempting to move it to GitHub.
20130429 01:21:10< shadowm> The keyword here is 'attempting'.
20130429 01:22:01< anonymissimus> so far at least
20130429 01:31:09< AI0867> the whole reason we had this void was because esr wanted to redo the conversion
20130429 01:31:22< AI0867> wesnoth-old simply started out as a mirror of the sourceforge repo
20130429 01:31:32< AI0867> wesnoth-unfinished is the failed reconversion
20130429 01:33:36 * anonymissimus wonders how many devs will wait until esr may be done with it
20130429 01:33:50< anonymissimus> it will require a full recheckout, right ?
20130429 01:34:00< anonymissimus> since the history is changed
20130429 01:34:10< shadowm> Yes.
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20130429 01:34:17< AI0867> wesnoth-old simply requires changing an url, but the new repo does require a full clone
20130429 01:34:52< AI0867> I already have a clone of the new repo, but it's likely that I'll have to trash that too
20130429 01:35:01< anonymissimus> well, if he can't get it done within reasonable time, then he should just let it be, he did enough already
20130429 01:37:07< shadowm> Since he just disappeared without saying anything, I suspect he silently chose that path.
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20130429 01:48:13< irker600> Wesnoth: fendrin :master * 68fbc43 / src/display.cpp: Made all menu buttons to be of type "turbo". http://git.io/RzkTLQ
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20130429 06:05:05< Shofixti> VICTORY! Wesnoth Compiles in Visual Studio! 3 days of frusteration, conquered!
20130429 06:05:15< Shofixti> Sorry. I guess that seems trivial to most of you...
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20130429 06:16:17< Shofixti> mattsc: Are you around?
20130429 06:16:50< mattsc> Shofixti: for another ~5min
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20130429 06:17:47< Shofixti> mattsc: I'm looking at working on some AI work patches, to bolster my application to Gsoc
20130429 06:18:16< Shofixti> mattsc: Have any recomendations? It sounds like you know a thing or two about all this.
20130429 06:18:53< mattsc> Shofixti: well, yes and no.  I know how to work with the AI, I don't know as much about the code itself.
20130429 06:19:07< mattsc> Which project are you interested in?
20130429 06:20:32< Shofixti> mattsc, i'm looking at the list on EasyCoding in the wiki... The first one, about setting the AI to exclude units in the move-to-target phase, looks like a place to start
20130429 06:21:01< mattsc> Shofixti: from what I am told that is not at all an easy task.
20130429 06:21:18< mattsc> because of the way how that CA is set up.
20130429 06:21:27< mattsc> But I meant: which GSoC project?
20130429 06:21:46< Shofixti> mattsc: Refactoring the AI recruitment algorithm
20130429 06:22:14< Shofixti> I've got 2 cans of redbull and all night to work on something, so i'm ready to dive in anywhere
20130429 06:23:04< mattsc> Shofixti: in that case, Crab_ has recommended to other students to start by just setting up a mirror-the-opponent recruitment algorithm.  Just to get your hands dirty.
20130429 06:23:33< mattsc> Or just set up _any_ recruitment algorithm.  Doesn't really matter what it is, just get it working.
20130429 06:23:56< Shofixti> Sounds reasonable actually. A good way to introduce me to all the concepts, since mirroring a player would touch on everything in a basic way
20130429 06:25:02< mattsc> Besides that, the first EasyCoding task (get aspects to work with the Lua engine) or the second to last one (more replay-safe actions) would be really useful to have from my point of view.
20130429 06:25:22< mattsc> Crab_ said that they are relatively easy, but I have no idea about how that would be done, you'd have to ask him.
20130429 06:25:57< Shofixti> I've not seen him on in a bit, but regardless, thanks a ton for the pointers
20130429 06:26:26< Shofixti> I'll dive into the deep end with a mirror AI tonight, and see where that takes me
20130429 06:26:26< mattsc> Shofixti: the last couple weeks he's been around during the week (daytime central European time), but not on the weekends.
20130429 06:26:42< mattsc> I expect him to be back tomorrow (but only he knows for sure of course)
20130429 06:26:53< Shofixti> Righto! Thanks champ.
20130429 06:27:09< mattsc> Shofixti: cool.  I'm off now, but will be back tomorrow again too.
20130429 06:27:27< Shofixti> mattsc: Speak at you then
20130429 06:27:46< mattsc> Have fun!
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20130429 10:15:47< irker600> Wesnoth: fendrin :master * 5cfb927 / src/display.cpp: Remove obsolete panel drawing hack. http://git.io/dsCy5w
20130429 10:15:48< irker600> Wesnoth: fendrin :master * ce86591 / src/display.cpp: Removed an obsolete panel drawing hack. http://git.io/f88rAQ
20130429 10:16:23< fabi_> Damn, that should have been in a single one.
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20130429 10:19:47< irker600> Wesnoth: fendrin :master * 725634e / src/game_config.cpp,src/game_config.hpp: Variables pointing to the radiobutton images. http://git.io/o2uBzA
20130429 10:19:56< thunderstruck> fabi_, Hi.
20130429 10:20:10< thunderstruck> fabi_, are you aware of current save/restore issues regarding MP games?
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20130429 10:35:53< fabi_> thunderstruck: No, not in detail.
20130429 10:37:23< thunderstruck> fabi_, I'm honestly struggling with those things for my project. I can't find much about it in bug tracker. I found some forum posts, but I failed to reproduce most of the bugs.
20130429 10:37:57< thunderstruck> fabi_, maybe you know who might be aware of those issues?
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20130429 10:48:47< LordBob_> fabi_: hi there
20130429 10:49:25< fabi_> LordBob_: hi
20130429 10:50:00< LordBob_> fabi_: http://forums.wesnoth.org/download/file.php?id=61573&mode=view
20130429 10:50:55< LordBob_> fabi_: I'm thinking of doing something similar to C1 for menus, but it involves a thicker border compared to the existing. Would you rather I kepts dimensions unchanged, or is this okay ?
20130429 10:53:14< fabi_> LordBob_: No, just do what you want. I will fix the dimensions in the code when necessary.
20130429 10:53:36< LordBob_> great :)
20130429 10:53:42< fabi_> LordBob_: C2 could be the new frame for dialogs like the preferences.
20130429 10:54:55< LordBob_> fabi_: that's a possibility. I was also thinking of using one of those, depending on the importance we want to give to a given dialog: http://forums.wesnoth.org/download/file.php?id=61572&mode=view
20130429 10:55:55< fabi_> ui
20130429 10:56:22< fabi_> LordBob_: You are not doing things only half, do you?
20130429 10:57:07< LordBob_> fabi_: heh, researching concepts is always the most enjoyable part, for me ^^
20130429 10:57:43< LordBob_> (and besides, I had plenty good inspiration available from West's earlier work)
20130429 10:58:39< fabi_> LordBob_: I did not know that West is also a painter.
20130429 10:59:32< LordBob_> He had begun work on a UI facelift 3-4 years ago. I don't know if he did much else art-wise, though.
20130429 11:00:17< LordBob_> fabi_: what I'm still unclear about, however, is how many different types ofdialogs we could/should use. So far, I counted 3 at least: tooltips, menus, "active" dialogs (i.e settings and the like)
20130429 11:00:32< LordBob_> I don't know if we need/can afford more
20130429 11:02:32< fabi_> LordBob_: hmmm
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20130429 11:09:08< fabi_> LordBob_: The dialog class (gui1 dialogs) knows about 3 different styles, "default", "message" and "hotkey".
20130429 11:10:27< LordBob_> fabi_: "default" I get, but when would "message" or "hotkey" classes be used ?
20130429 11:10:57< fabi_> LordBob_: Hotkey is used for menus, maybe because menus do display hotkey actions.
20130429 11:11:34< fabi_> LordBob_: Default is currently used for the preferences dialogs and message for everything with the lighter border.
20130429 11:11:58< fabi_> LordBob_: But I can add more if the "style"s.
20130429 11:12:53< LordBob_> fabi_: ok. I'll start with those three, and we can add more afterwards if relevant use cases arise
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20130429 11:14:19< LordBob_> fabi_: it's likely that I introduce a distinction between tooltips and other messages, but beyond that I don't see any major changes on the horizon
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20130429 11:50:40< thunderstruck> Crab_, hi. Could you look at my proposal again? I've re-written most of it. There are still many things to work on (especially goals section), but I would like to get some feedback.
20130429 11:51:33< Crab_> thunderstruck: hello. will do.
20130429 11:51:44< thunderstruck> Crab_, thanks. http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SoC2013_thunderstruck_MP_Campaign_Support
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20130429 11:57:05< Crab_> thunderstruck: I have done a quick read, and will reread and let you know my detailed feedback later. Meanwhile, two things : 
20130429 11:57:39< Crab_> thunderstruck: (1) make sure you submit a proposal to Google, as well (you can link from there to your wiki page). the deadline for that is 3rd May. 
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20130429 12:02:04< Crab_> thunderstruck: (2) to display a list of MP scenarios, game must read all of them (without setting difficulties and campaign defines) - it has to learn the names, sizes, map previews, etc. With lots of content, it would take a long time. I suggest increasing the priority of problem mentioned in https://gna.org/bugs/?11503 (that you mentioned in your proposal)
20130429 12:02:33< Crab_> thunderstruck: when working with diff. levels, you'll need to touch that part anyway.
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20130429 12:03:30< thunderstruck> Crab_, ok. I will think about that.
20130429 12:04:11< thunderstruck> Crab_, as for the submit too Google, should I just put the link inside "content" section instead of putting my whole proposal?
20130429 12:04:21< thunderstruck> submit to*
20130429 12:04:57< Crab_> thunderstruck: yes, add 2-3 paragraphs with the main project idea, and put a link
20130429 12:07:23< irker600> Wesnoth: fendrin :master * c84190d / src/editor/editor_controller.cpp,src/hotkeys.cpp,src/hotkeys.hpp: Adds support for tooltip descriptions to hotkey actions. http://git.io/jlxyDw
20130429 12:09:02< flix> Crab_: Hi! I have a patch for you. So wesnoth.debug_ai(2).ai.move is now working for me. I had to inject the ai-table because get_ai() (like it's written in http://wiki.wesnoth.org/LuaAI#Debug_access_to_the_AI_tree) wasn't implemented yet. (I asked Nephro about it) 
20130429 12:09:26< thunderstruck> Crab_, by the way, I've found previous gsoc project by zaroth. Was anything implemented from that proposal?
20130429 12:10:04< Crab_> flix: great! submit it to patches.wesnoth.org, and mention it in your proposal, as well. I'll take a look at it.
20130429 12:12:40< flix> Crab_: I haven't submitted yet because I had a question: When I let the ai make a turn and then in my turn I try to move a ai's unit it sometimes won't work because the unit hasn't any moves left. Should I reset the moves somehow before?
20130429 12:13:33< Crab_> thunderstruck: that was in 2011, zaroth wasn't accepted (instead, my student was Nephro, for his first time in GSoC with us). in 2012, Ayne did some work in related areas, but that mainly involved cleaning up code and figuring a good way to deal with scenario transitions/carryover.
20130429 12:14:17< thunderstruck> Crab_, oh, I must have misread something, because I thought he was accepted.
20130429 12:17:06< Crab_> thunderstruck: let me take a look..yes,  it's possible that he was in, but dropped for personal reasons after midterm.
20130429 12:17:15< Crab_> thunderstruck: so, not much was done.
20130429 12:18:10< thunderstruck> Crab_, I was interested in that case since I can find some similarities between our projects. So I thought I might learn something from others mistakes.
20130429 12:18:29< fabi> hello
20130429 12:19:29< vultraz> thunderstruck: what does yours deal with?
20130429 12:20:29< thunderstruck> vultraz, mp campaigns improvements. Basically, I aim to make CampaingWML and ScenarioWML to work for mp, fix save/restore issues and improve a bit of mp gui.
20130429 12:20:46< vultraz> ah
20130429 12:20:57< vultraz> does sound like zaroth's
20130429 12:21:35< vultraz> I remember talking to him about it 
20130429 12:21:44< vultraz> but then he left
20130429 12:22:14< vultraz> no idea why
20130429 12:23:31< thunderstruck> vultraz, yeah, I think I've seen yours discussion with him on his proposal's page.
20130429 12:24:49< vultraz> might wanna read http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=33540 if you haven't already
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20130429 12:26:45< thunderstruck> vultraz, no, I haven't. Thanks.
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20130429 12:29:59< Crab_> thunderstruck: one of the mistakes was to try to change the code of play controllers to 'unify' SP and MP. it turned out that that wasn't solving problems and was hard to do.
20130429 12:30:29< Crab_> thunderstruck: in 2012 I instead focused on the things that happen between scenarios, before they start or after they finish
20130429 12:30:38< Crab_> thunderstruck: and that turned out to be a better approach
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20130429 12:31:38< thunderstruck> Crab_, are you referring to Ayne's project?
20130429 12:31:43< Crab_> thunderstruck: yes
20130429 12:34:14< thunderstruck> Crab_, I see. I think, I need to be careful with my proposal and not try to fix all issues, but focus on changes which would help to deal with current problems later on.
20130429 12:34:31< thunderstruck> Crab_, Because I see that zaroth's project was quite bigger than mine.
20130429 12:37:56< Trademark_> does someone know how to shrink the contents table to the second level (for example) on the wiki ?
20130429 12:38:29< thunderstruck> Trademark_, use "="
20130429 12:39:00< Crab_> thunderstruck: yes, it's better to keep small, have focus on features, and have 1/3 time free from mandatory stuff just-in-case
20130429 12:39:05< thunderstruck> Trademark_, e.g. "==title=="
20130429 12:39:19< thunderstruck> Trademark_, or "===title==="
20130429 12:42:32< thunderstruck> Crab_, ok. When do you think you'll give me more detailed feeback? I would probably go AFK it if won't be soon :)
20130429 12:42:58< Crab_> thunderstruck: probably 'tomorrow early morning via google's tracker'
20130429 12:43:15< Crab_> thunderstruck: I have things to say, but it requires some time to specify. overall, it's good.
20130429 12:44:17< thunderstruck> Crab_, I will probably work on goals section later today, so be sure to refresh the page then you look at it :)
20130429 12:44:25< Crab_> thunderstruck: ok!
20130429 12:44:26< thunderstruck> Crab_, See you later.
20130429 12:44:43< thunderstruck> s/then/when
20130429 12:49:58< flix> Crab_: have you read my question at 01:12:37?
20130429 12:51:00< Crab_> flix: sorry, read and thought I've answerred :)
20130429 12:51:14< Crab_> flix: so, no, there should be no need to move units outside of your turn
20130429 12:51:39< flix> Crab_: great, I will submit it now
20130429 12:52:30< Crab_> flix: the main thing, it should always 'just work' if you try to move your own units on your turn
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20130429 13:06:09< flix> Crab_: it does. https://gna.org/patch/index.php?3888
20130429 13:08:51< Crab_> flix: reading... it would be better if it worked without temporary dummy engines
20130429 13:09:06< Crab_> flix: e.g. if it'd created a proper non-temporary engine
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20130429 13:15:36< flix> Crab_: so the engine wouldn't be deleted but could be used for later invokes of debug_ai()?
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20130429 13:22:23< irker600> Wesnoth: fendrin :master * e014493 / src/hotkeys.cpp,src/hotkeys.hpp,src/theme.cpp,src/theme.hpp: Support for [action] in theme WML. http://git.io/Hk-Yew
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20130429 13:41:29< flix> Crab_: shall I try to add this or is it okay for now?
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20130429 14:19:06< Crab_> flix: ues, it's better to fix this. it would be used for later invokes of debug_ai, it would also be used for regular ai turns, etc
20130429 14:27:42< flix> Crab_: okay, I will do this later today. Shall I then just upload a new patch-file on the same patch-page?
20130429 14:33:19< flix> Crab_: And what do you mean by "it would also be used for regular ai turns"? shall I overwrite the AI engine with the dummy engine? That sounds not right.
20130429 14:34:37< Crab_> flix: yes, upload the new file.  I'd say "if the AI has no lua engine, create a dummy lua engine and add it to regular AI. if the AI already has a definition for the lua engine, just init it".
20130429 14:36:54< flix> Crab_: okay!
20130429 14:38:29< flix> Crab_: I submitted my proposal (via link) to google. I consider it finished but it would be nice, if you'd take another look. (now or over the next days)
20130429 14:38:41< Crab_> flix: I will
20130429 14:39:03< flix> Crab_:( http://wiki.wesnoth.org/User:Flixx/GSoC_2013/AI:_AI:_Refactor_recruitment_algorithm )
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20130429 14:43:51< Crab_> flix: I will be looking over all the submitted proposals in more detail on 1st May, which is a public holiday here, and will provide feedback via google's tracker.
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20130429 14:50:48< flix> Crab_: fair enough! thanks.
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20130429 15:26:03< Trademark_> thunderstruck, I know this, but see my proposal : http://wiki.wesnoth.org/User:Trademark/GSoC_2013/Addon_Server:_Create_a_new_and_shiny_one#Server_configuration see my content table, the questionnaire section is really big.
20130429 15:28:10< thunderstruck> Trademark_, em, why did you put all the questions of questionnaire as a headings?
20130429 15:28:38< thunderstruck> Trademark_, you could just make them bold or something if you want to outline them.
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20130429 15:44:47< Trademark_> thunderstruck, I know but I liked the output :)
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20130429 16:08:28< irker600> Wesnoth: anonymissimus :master * 4e93b39 / src/scripting/lua.cpp: graceful error message when inserting unknown unit type into help http://git.io/NJihgg
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20130429 16:36:22< irker600> Wesnoth: fendrin :master * a1861e2 / / (168 files): Tooltip support in GUI1 widgets. http://git.io/_iM_GA
20130429 16:36:23< irker600> Wesnoth: fendrin :master * 67d66c5 / src/ (7 files): Drawing support for the [action] theme wml. http://git.io/kbbN6Q
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20130429 17:05:36-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: current repo: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old (still to be fixed) | http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeIdeas | Will move the repo to github, please read the dev-ml! | 177 bugs, 333 feature requests, 28 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20130429 17:28:07< fabi> LordBob_: hi
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20130429 17:32:26< LordBob_> fabi: hi there
20130429 17:33:32< fabi> LordBob_: I have commited most of our new stuff into the git repository.
20130429 17:36:14< fabi> LordBob_: Still the terrain info is a problem.
20130429 17:36:41< LordBob_> fabi: Does this mean I can download somewhere a dev version of the game that includes it, or would I have to compile myself ?
20130429 17:36:58< AI0867> we don't have a "nightly build" system
20130429 17:37:04< AI0867> so you'd have to poke an OS X user
20130429 17:37:24< bumbadadabum> LordBob_: You'll have to compile
20130429 17:37:34< fabi> bumbadadabum: Is compiling an mac hard?
20130429 17:37:53< fabi> s/an/on
20130429 17:37:55< bumbadadabum> fabi: it gave errors for me
20130429 17:38:06< AI0867> we are planning to set one up in the future (as part of a continuous testing system), but that's a bit harder of OS X than for linux, due to licenses and stuff
20130429 17:38:10< LordBob_> Ah, it can wait. Screen captures are enough for now
20130429 17:38:12< AI0867> maybe we can crosscompile
20130429 17:38:54< bumbadadabum> LordBob_: ask Alarantalara
20130429 17:39:32< fabi> LordBob_: hmmm
20130429 17:40:15< fabi> LordBob_: I had hoped you could touch the interface soon. Having to wait for a new dev release is not good.
20130429 17:41:16< LordBob_> fabi: by touch you mean give it a try ?
20130429 17:41:24< LordBob_> or resume updates ?
20130429 17:41:31< fabi> give it a try
20130429 17:41:55< fabi> There is also sound feedback.
20130429 17:42:05< fabi> The sound of the interface needs design as well.
20130429 17:43:02< LordBob_> Ah. Then indeed, either someone who's more at home with OSX can provide a pre-compiled package, or I'll have to do it myself but this will take lots of trial and error
20130429 17:45:11< AI0867> I believe the way we do this for windows is that we recommend that people just maintain a source clone themselves, and periodically download just the executable
20130429 17:46:12< AI0867> maybe something like that can be arranged for OS X too, because I believe the OS X packager has limited bandwidth, so he's not going to upload the entire DMG multiple times a month
20130429 17:46:17< fabi> AI0867: A nightly build executable?
20130429 17:46:32< AI0867> fabi: nah, an on-demand "I poked the right dev" executable
20130429 17:47:04< fabi> LordBob_: Just learn to compile. I am sure you can do that.
20130429 17:47:13< bumbadadabum> AI0867: if you set everything up right, it's only a buttonpress
20130429 17:47:18< bumbadadabum> and anyone could do it
20130429 17:47:20< bumbadadabum> (on OSX)
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20130429 17:51:46< irker600> Wesnoth: fendrin :master * dd7a497 / / (597 files): Automagic Button State System. http://git.io/ecQTzw
20130429 17:51:55< LordBob_> fabi: I can do that, but the learning curve consumes time that I would otherwise dedicate to more pressing matters. Not to mention that I already need to learn how to use Git
20130429 17:52:40< fabi> LordBob_: Indeed, the page describing the macosx compile process is looking scarier than I had thought.
20130429 17:53:46< vultraz> LordBob_: it's not that hard, actually
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20130429 17:54:13< vultraz> once everything is set up, you can just push one button
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20130429 17:54:25< vultraz> that is, assuming everything works
20130429 17:54:32< vultraz> which most of the time...it doesn't
20130429 17:54:34< vultraz> :P
20130429 17:55:50< vultraz> in the most optimal situation, you would
20130429 17:56:42< AI0867> Soliton: this is probably for you? https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/pull/1
20130429 17:56:51< vultraz> Clone the repo. Download and install XCode. Download the MacCompileStuff zip and drag the folders within to projectfiles/XCode. Open the XCodeproj file. Press build.
20130429 17:57:10< bumbadadabum> vultraz: doesn't work on 10.6.8 at least
20130429 17:57:33< vultraz> bumbadadabum: why?
20130429 17:57:42< bumbadadabum> gives errors
20130429 17:58:29< vultraz> maybe I told you to stick the maccompilesuff in the wrong place
20130429 18:00:05< vultraz> I can check
20130429 18:00:24< vultraz> LordBob_: what mac version do you have?
20130429 18:00:47< LordBob_> vultraz; the not-so-optimal situations are precisely what I don't want to deal with. It /sounds/ easy, but before I know it I'll have spent a couple hours, and then maybe a whole evening, just learning the basic troubleshooting when I should be drawing stuff. 
20130429 18:01:03< LordBob_> vultraz : 10.6.8
20130429 18:01:08< vultraz> ah...
20130429 18:01:13< vultraz> well, I did get it working on that
20130429 18:01:21< vultraz> it was when I got 10.7 that problems started
20130429 18:01:35< vultraz> But I forgot what XCode version I had had..
20130429 18:01:43< vultraz> and one thing I know about compiling...it never goes well
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20130429 18:13:12< LordBob_> Vultraz: that's precisely why I would rather work with a precompiled package. I need to be able to spare time to practice beside Wesnoth stuff, and I fear learnng to compile would just eat on that
20130429 18:13:41< vultraz> I hear you
20130429 18:13:56< vultraz> I spent literally months trying to get wesnoth to build
20130429 18:14:01< vultraz> And when it did
20130429 18:14:04< vultraz> IT DIDN'T WORK
20130429 18:14:32< Shofixti> Oh good! Man, I don't feel so bad now... I've been raking my brains out trying to get it to compile the past few days, and I just assumed everybody else thought it was trivial
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20130429 18:14:54< vultraz> hahaha
20130429 18:14:57< vultraz> trivial
20130429 18:15:39< Shofixti> I got it to compile late last night, 2 redbulls later... But man, that was frusterating
20130429 18:16:14< vultraz> but does it run?
20130429 18:16:20< Shofixti> It does! Amazingly
20130429 18:16:30< vultraz> I have a build that compiles, but doesn't.friggin.run
20130429 18:16:34< vultraz> Same with frogatto
20130429 18:16:36< Shofixti> Which IDE are you using?
20130429 18:16:38< vultraz> compuiles like a charm
20130429 18:16:44< vultraz> but doesn't.run
20130429 18:16:49< Shofixti> And OS, for that matter
20130429 18:16:49< vultraz> Shofixti: XCode
20130429 18:16:56< vultraz> OS X 10.7
20130429 18:17:08< Shofixti> Ahhhh Macs... Well, i'm afraid I can't be of much help then
20130429 18:17:18< Shofixti> I had the same problem with Visual Studio 2010...
20130429 18:17:46< Shofixti> My solution was to switch to Visual Studio 2008, manually install the boost library for that, make sure all the external files were in place...
20130429 18:17:49< Shofixti> Then pray to the gods.
20130429 18:18:06< vultraz> Yeah, I tried on windows too
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20130429 18:18:13< vultraz> MSVC 2010
20130429 18:18:15< vultraz> didn;t work
20130429 18:18:26< anonymissimus> Shofixti: so, how did you solve it ?
20130429 18:18:32< anonymissimus> or what was the problem
20130429 18:18:38< Shofixti> vultraz: Yeah, compiled fine, then error code 1, correct?
20130429 18:18:44< vultraz> I think so
20130429 18:18:59< anonymissimus> compiling something is *never* trivial
20130429 18:19:22< Shofixti> anonymissimus: I got it to work in Visual Studio 2008, but I had to manually install the boost library, the one provided didin't work for me
20130429 18:19:44< anonymissimus> its just that some Linux-only guys think that if apt-get build-dep did always get all dependencies for them
20130429 18:20:08< Shofixti> vultraz, if you're okay using windows to compile, I can give you my projectfiles folder
20130429 18:21:37< Shofixti> anonymissimus: Yeah... I'm just glad I got it to work at all. I'm tempted to make a tutorial for anybody else who wants to compile on windows
20130429 18:22:20< anonymissimus> Shofixti: if you do that, link to and from the compiling on windows page
20130429 18:22:39< anonymissimus> it sounds as if you have an unusual amount of trouble though
20130429 18:22:55< artisticdude> fabi: I don't suppose you've been committing the editor GUI changes to the SVN repository, right?
20130429 18:23:07< Shofixti> anonymissimus, I did, but that might be because I gave up on each IDE too quickly
20130429 18:23:49< fabi> artisticdude: svn?
20130429 18:24:11< anonymissimus> the last time I tried vc10 I only needed to replace the libs and dlls with the according versions for vc10, they can all be downloaded from the boostpro site
20130429 18:25:02< Shofixti> VC10 was weird. It compiled just fine after I did that, but just exited with a code of 1 on startup
20130429 18:25:12< artisticdude> fabi: I don't read the mailing list very thoroughly, but I think the old svn repository on Sourceforge isn't being actively used now, with the transition to github in progress and everything?
20130429 18:26:08< fabi> artisticdude: I don't know about a svn repository on sourceforge. 
20130429 18:26:43< anonymissimus> Shofixti: make sure that you delete your cache folder though, there's currently some bug when MSVC reads cache files
20130429 18:26:57< fabi> artisticdude: I hope that my push went into github.
20130429 18:27:10< artisticdude> Ah, okay.
20130429 18:27:34< anonymissimus> causing the debugger to exit with a std::io_base::badbit or something
20130429 18:29:12< Shofixti> anonymissimus: I'm done screwing around with compiling :p I'm happy enough now that VC2008 works
20130429 18:29:39< artisticdude> fabi: Sorry, I was confusing sourceforge and gna. I meant the gna repository.
20130429 18:29:41< Shofixti> Now i've just got to dive into the deep end of AI development.
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20130429 18:33:50< LordBob_> fabi: so, home-compiling isn't an option for the moment, but I'll have some time later tonight to take care of the terrain info, missing icons and stuff.
20130429 18:35:06< LordBob_> btw, let this be a call to any dev who would happen to compile a mac build for their own needs:can you please share ?
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20130429 19:12:22< timotei> mordante: shouldn't we use the pull request functionality instead of the older 'post a patch'?
20130429 19:12:57< timotei> I am talking about the first pull request we got :P
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20130429 19:40:44< AI0867> I agree, it's not like gna has any special functionality we use
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20130429 20:07:59< mordante> servus
20130429 20:08:10< fabi> hi mordante
20130429 20:08:32< timotei> hi mordante 
20130429 20:09:24< mordante> hi fabi 
20130429 20:09:27< mordante> hi timotei 
20130429 20:10:59< mordante> thunderstruck, I see a few minor issues when looking at patch 3844, the offset is an int instead of unsigned line 74 misses a type
20130429 20:11:10< irker600> Wesnoth: fendrin :master * b97ed9b / data/themes/default.cfg: Changed the endturn button from [menu] to [action]. http://git.io/UArf_w
20130429 20:11:37< mordante> will compile it now
20130429 20:13:35< mordante> shadowm, what is the status of the commit emails?
20130429 20:14:49< mordante> timotei, AI0867 the last time we discussed bugreporting/patching we said we would leave that at GNA for the time being
20130429 20:15:22< timotei> mordante: Ah. I thought we would use GNA just for bugreports, and use the pull-requests github was so appraised for :)
20130429 20:16:03< mordante> timotei, where was that discussed?
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20130429 20:16:50< AI0867> mordante: I just set up the email hook to mail to wesnoth-commits@gna.org
20130429 20:17:00< mordante> thanks AI0867 
20130429 20:17:31< mordante> fabi, can it be you have not committed stuff around, wesnoth crashes at startup for me
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20130429 20:18:03< AI0867> send from author is currently off, so mails will be from noreply@github.com
20130429 20:18:21< mordante> sounds sane to me
20130429 20:18:32< timotei> mordante: Hmm, it was in one of the emails reasoning for github. (https://mail.gna.org/public/wesnoth-dev/2013-03/msg00055.html the section with: "Potential contributors are able to fork the repository in seconds online. Then after cloning their fork and pushing their changes, they can make what is called a "pull request" online in a few seconds.")
20130429 20:18:38< timotei> But maybe I got it wrong, IDK
20130429 20:18:45< timotei> Let me know if that's the case.
20130429 20:19:35< Necrosporus>  How can disconnected user get back if observers are disabled?
20130429 20:19:35< mordante> timotei, https://mail.gna.org/public/wesnoth-dev/2013-03/msg00053.html
20130429 20:20:35< fabi> mordante: Do you get any error messages=
20130429 20:20:37< fabi> ?
20130429 20:21:08< AI0867> mordante: this does mean we may need a mailinglist moderator (whoever they are) to add that address to the permitted non-member senders
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20130429 20:21:18< AI0867> the admins are dave and ivanovic
20130429 20:21:38< timotei> Yeah, but that was the before Gambit would say about the pull-requests, since Ivanovic *asked* for what "So guys lets please just fill up this list and decide based on *facts* what we
20130429 20:21:39< timotei> want to do."
20130429 20:21:45< mordante> fabi, http://paste.debian.net/1162/ on a clean master
20130429 20:21:56< timotei> But anyway, I was just asking. If we don't want to use a good feature, then be it that way.
20130429 20:22:40< timotei> I was just saying that if people want to contribute to wesnoth through pull-requests we should allow them. Others will use the patches.wesnoth.org if they feel better :)
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20130429 20:23:21< timotei> afk
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20130429 20:24:05< mordante> timotei, well it was never decided that we wanted to use that feature, that's also my problem with the whole second move, it turned into a big mess
20130429 20:24:37< mordante> AI0867, are they then send to GNA?
20130429 20:25:57< fabi> mordante: I have problems to reproduce, how exactly do you start Wesnoth?
20130429 20:26:34< mordante> from a subdirectory called bin ./wesnoth ..
20130429 20:26:42< mordante> and I've been using it for ages
20130429 20:27:04< fabi> Thus the crash is when reaching the title screen?
20130429 20:27:06< mordante> fabi, but this looks suspicious ould not open image '-pressed.png'
20130429 20:27:26< mordante> »could not open image '-pressed.png'«*
20130429 20:27:51< thunderstruck> mordante, hi.
20130429 20:27:54< thunderstruck> mordante, http://sdl.beuc.net/sdl.wiki/SDL_Rect
20130429 20:28:22< thunderstruck> mordante, by this page x and y are signed ints if I'm not mistaken.
20130429 20:29:20 * thunderstruck feels ashamed for missing a type in that comment
20130429 20:29:35< mordante> thunderstruck, they are, but using a negative value will not work properly
20130429 20:30:01< mordante> the engine uses unsigned at other places, where SDL uses signed ones
20130429 20:30:22< mordante> recompiling again since seems master is broken for me
20130429 20:31:07< AI0867> 20:24 < mordante> AI0867, are they then send to GNA? <-- as I said, I configured the email hook to mail to wesnoth-commits@gna.org
20130429 20:31:20< AI0867> I don't see how that couldn't go through gna ;)
20130429 20:31:34< mordante> AI0867, ok, I missed that line
20130429 20:32:07< thunderstruck> mordante, ok. Should I modify that patch by hand?
20130429 20:32:47< mordante> thunderstruck, I'm about to test so better wait a few minutes
20130429 20:33:04< thunderstruck> mordante, and what exactly do you mean by "will not work properly"? Would it cause an error because of wml message implementation?
20130429 20:34:04< thunderstruck> mordante, alright, but I'm not sure why you're testing it if I'll have to fix it.
20130429 20:34:49< mordante> the x position in the window is an unsigned so I'm quite confident a negative x will wrap to a large value
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20130429 20:37:18< Shofixti> Working with the AI code is overwhelming as hell.
20130429 20:38:41< mordante> thunderstruck, since I don't expect the change of the types will give issues and I'm not sure about another aspect of the patch
20130429 20:39:11< mordante> and if I'm right about that hand-crafting will be hard
20130429 20:39:54< mordante> Shofixti, welcome to the AI :-P
20130429 20:40:07< thunderstruck> mordante, what hand-crafting?
20130429 20:40:23< mordante> the patch
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20130429 20:41:44< thunderstruck> mordante, so what aspect of the patch worries you?
20130429 20:42:00< mordante> thunderstruck, yup the x_offset is placed in the wrong section, it should be in the windows section
20130429 20:42:22< mordante> but I can also make these modifications, no need to recraft the patch
20130429 20:42:55< mordante> once master works again I'll commit the patch
20130429 20:43:17< thunderstruck> mordante, thanks. I can't believe how many things I've missed..
20130429 20:44:15< mordante> and of course the name is also wrong there ;-)
20130429 20:45:18< thunderstruck> mordante, explain it please
20130429 20:46:03< mordante> what is the name of the variable?
20130429 20:47:05< thunderstruck> mordante, gamemap_x_offset. I thought we discussed it the last time.
20130429 20:48:55< mordante> and how is it named in the variable table?
20130429 20:49:09< mordante> patch is queued up
20130429 20:52:05< mordante> I first have to review another patch then look at the time patch
20130429 20:53:35< mordante> fabi, any idea regarding what's wrong with master?
20130429 20:54:28< thunderstruck> mordante, oh, now I see... Sorry. Nex time I won't submit a patch in a hurry.
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20130429 20:55:04< mordante> ok good and indeed doing things in a hurry often causes mistakes ;-)
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20130429 21:01:23< anonymissimus> hm, I don't get mordante's errors
20130429 21:03:15< mordante> anonymissimus, the current tip ( b97ed9b) of master? 
20130429 21:03:29< anonymissimus> yes
20130429 21:04:17< anonymissimus> this feels kind of great :P
20130429 21:05:52< mordante> I can imagine :-P
20130429 21:08:12< mordante> anonymissimus, too bad for you it's not a Linux problem :-P
20130429 21:08:49< mordante> fabi, the problem is starting wesnoth with ./wesnoth .. -t and you _need_ to have the wide screen theme enabled
20130429 21:10:21< Soliton> mordante: you closed the pull request because there was no official mention of using that feature on github?
20130429 21:13:23< mordante> Soliton, no since it was said we didn't want to use additional features on GitHub
20130429 21:13:39< Soliton> that sounds like exactly what i just said.
20130429 21:14:23-!- souravsingh [~souravsin@106.66.49.178] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130429 21:15:40< Soliton> mordante: are you working on the ignore patch?
20130429 21:15:41< souravsingh> hello all,i would like to propose a project in GSoC 2013
20130429 21:16:14< mordante> Soliton, yes it is assigned to me
20130429 21:16:29< Soliton> mordante: are you working on the ignore patch, now?
20130429 21:16:49< mordante> Soliton, I'm compiling it at the moment
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20130429 21:17:15< mordante> souravsingh, hi, what do you want to propose
20130429 21:17:34< Soliton> mordante: ok, did you use the obsolete patch on gna?
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20130429 21:18:50< mordante> brb
20130429 21:18:53< souravsingh> i  want to propose AI:Implementing a "Total defense" strategy
20130429 21:19:09< Shofixti> Oh hullo, another AI programmer applicant
20130429 21:19:17< souravsingh> hello
20130429 21:19:20< Shofixti> Heed my warning young one: Turn back while you still can.
20130429 21:19:33< lipkab> Hehe.
20130429 21:19:33< Shofixti> The AI code is a hellhole.
20130429 21:20:07< souravsingh> ok
20130429 21:20:30< lipkab> Shofixti: Scaring away the competition? Hmm...
20130429 21:20:33< lipkab> :P
20130429 21:20:34< timotei> :))
20130429 21:20:44< timotei> souravsingh: only fighting once can achieve things!
20130429 21:20:48< timotei> s/once/once
20130429 21:20:50< timotei> s/once/one
20130429 21:20:52< Shofixti> lipkab: It's either that, or i'm just concerned for his mental well being
20130429 21:21:08< Soliton> mordante: is your aversion to github pull requests based on something more than "it was said we didn't want to use additional features on GitHub"?
20130429 21:22:01< souravsingh> ok will i get any reply?
20130429 21:22:50< Soliton> souravsingh: maybe if you ask a question or get anymore specific on your plans.
20130429 21:22:50< souravsingh> hello!!!
20130429 21:23:30< leo42> hey i am trying to get in the GSoC for wesnoth :P and i really want to work on the AI:Improve configuration and behavior in mainline campaigns project :P any sugestions ?? :P
20130429 21:23:43< Shofixti> souravsingh: But really, welcome! Let me know if you have any problems starting out as an Applicant. I've not had any real experience, but i've hit some of the same hurdles your likely to
20130429 21:24:09< souravsingh> I have plans on working on AI defense strategy so that defense for AI is not a problem
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20130429 21:24:35< Shofixti> leo42: Be prepared to lose hair, And start fooling around with the AI code ASAP
20130429 21:25:19< Shofixti> leo42: O
20130429 21:25:33< Shofixti> leo42: I'm an applicant for GSOC as well, slightly different proposal...
20130429 21:25:34< leo42> shofixti im almost bold alredy :P
20130429 21:25:47< Shofixti> leo42: Well than you have nothing to lose! : p
20130429 21:26:06< Shofixti> leo42: Have you looked at compiling the Wesnoth source yet?
20130429 21:26:52< souravsingh> hello
20130429 21:27:05< leo42> not yet iv been trying to get the feel of the game for the last 2 days and now i a searching for any database on the units and terains :P
20130429 21:27:05< souravsingh> can anyone listen to me
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20130429 21:27:07< leo42> you ?? :P
20130429 21:27:41< Shofixti> leo42: Took me a few days of fiddling with IDEs, but I got it... Now i'm just sifting through the AI code and trying to get a feel for things
20130429 21:28:24< Shofixti> souravsingh: Mordante is the mentor you want to be talking to, and he's afk right now
20130429 21:28:49< souravsingh> mordante:could you please help me with my proposal?
20130429 21:29:05< leo42> yea that is what i will be doing to probably :P
20130429 21:29:25< leo42> shofixti: must lern to use tags :P
20130429 21:30:31< Shofixti> I had wanted to write a patch or two to bolster my proposal, but most of the AI projects in the EasyCoding wiki are either already being worked on, outside of my ability, or already patched. Mostly outside of my ability :p
20130429 21:30:59< leo42> shofixti : do you know ho can give me some info on figering out what direction the behevier and configuration progect whants to move on ?? :P
20130429 21:31:42< Shofixti> leo42: I may not be the right person to ask, i'm as green as you are... But I think _Crab would be a good start. If nothing else, he could tell you who to go to
20130429 21:31:46-!- prkc [~negusnyul@4E5C105D.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
20130429 21:31:53< leo42> he he we are on the same road but you seem more ahed than me :P
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20130429 21:33:32< Shofixti> leo42: This road's currently stopped at a mammoth of a roadblock :p So You've got time to catch up
20130429 21:33:56< lipkab> You've got time... until this friday!
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20130429 21:35:01< leo42> tick tock tick tock... dam :s
20130429 21:35:59< Shofixti> I've gotta take off for a bit... Look me up sometime if you need help getting things to compile, leo42
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20130429 21:42:02< mordante> Soliton, no
20130429 21:42:53< mordante> got to go, bye
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20130429 21:44:09< timotei> Ivanovic: what's your opinion on the pull requests feature? Shouldn't we use it if we have it? I mean, we could let users who are handy with that to continue using it, and those who are used with patches.wesnoth.org to use that instead.
20130429 21:44:11< Soliton> AI0867: can i reopen a pull request?
20130429 21:44:30< timotei> Soliton: yes
20130429 21:44:35< Soliton> how?
20130429 21:44:45< timotei> https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/pull/1
20130429 21:44:47< timotei> At the end of the page
20130429 21:44:48< Ivanovic> timotei: i don't care much, just use what suits those *applying* fixes most
20130429 21:44:50< timotei> There is a 'reopen'
20130429 21:45:03< Soliton> ah, thanks.
20130429 21:45:06< timotei> Ivanovic: ok then.
20130429 21:45:44< Soliton> i asked for the pull request because i can comment line-by-line which eases talking about the patch a lot.
20130429 21:46:04< timotei> Yes, that's what I was talking about too.
20130429 21:46:13< timotei> I mean there's nothing better than that.
20130429 21:46:42-!- jleldridge [~chatzilla@wireless-152-13-43-177.uncg.edu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130429 21:47:10< Soliton> it honestly boggles my mind how you can see that awesome feature and go 'wait a minute we did not say we're going to use that feature! let's close the request!'
20130429 21:48:45< Trademark_> someone knows how to display image in the wiki ? I saw that a link to the image should inline it, but the link is just diplayed in my case :-( http://wiki.wesnoth.org/User:Trademark/GSoC_2013/Addon_Server:_Create_a_new_and_shiny_one#Option_3:_RDF_database
20130429 21:48:53< Soliton> timotei: do you see that button? do i need some more permissions?
20130429 21:49:08< Soliton> timotei: (i don't see it.)
20130429 21:49:15< timotei> Soliton: Yes I see it. It is in the left of the green comment button.
20130429 21:49:19< AI0867> Soliton: I see it below the comment box (but I'm an admin)
20130429 21:49:37< timotei> You are a member of this Organization!
20130429 21:49:40< timotei> I am a normal member
20130429 21:49:50< AI0867> and in the developers group
20130429 21:49:52< timotei> Soliton: Are you logged in with `soliton-`?
20130429 21:50:05< timotei> Can you at least comment on it?
20130429 21:50:24< Soliton> oh, logged in with work account, that explains it... :-)  (still at work :-()
20130429 21:51:17-!- mjs-de [~mjs-de@wh.Uni-Dortmund.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
20130429 21:51:32< timotei> good
20130429 21:54:47< thunderstruck> Trademark_, Wesnoth's wiki runs on mediawiki. So just google how to do that thing in mediawiki..
20130429 21:55:38< timotei> Trademark_: yes
20130429 21:55:38< Trademark_> thunderstruck, dude I did it, you must upload your file on the wiki, however the upload is disabled. They don't say anything on how to inline image.
20130429 21:55:39-!- mjs-de [~mjs-de@wh.uni-dortmund.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130429 21:55:46< timotei> Trademark_: You forgot to put http://
20130429 21:55:46< timotei>  :P
20130429 21:55:53< timotei> It can't guess the protocol all by itself :)
20130429 21:56:02< Trademark_> timotei, woow thanks
20130429 21:56:10< timotei> You're welcome
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20130429 21:56:55< thunderstruck> Trademark_, sorry then. But the previous time you asked a basic question, so I thought you don't know where to look for things.
20130429 21:57:13< thunderstruck> Trademark_, regarding wiki*
20130429 21:57:42< Trademark_> thunderstruck, you through it was basic because you didn't understand what I meant, however thank you too for trying to help
20130429 21:57:53< jleldridge> Soliton, can you mark my account on the forums as a google summer of code account?
20130429 21:58:17< Trademark_> s/through/though
20130429 21:59:21< Soliton> jleldridge: still at work, i can try later but better ask shadowm or so.
20130429 21:59:41< Soliton> jleldridge: and mention your account name. ;-)
20130429 22:00:14< jleldridge> ok, thank you :0
20130429 22:00:20< jleldridge> :)*
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20130429 22:15:28< mattsc> Hi, leo42 
20130429 22:16:04< mattsc> Got your PM.  I'll reply here so that others can benefit from it also.
20130429 22:16:36< mattsc> I don't really have time to read up on the IRC logs right now, so let me know if you have any specific question.
20130429 22:17:38< mattsc> In general, for the "Improve mainline campaign AI" project, you want to develop a good understanding of how the AI plays, and to which extent it is configurable, both the standard AI aspects and the new Micro AIs.
20130429 22:18:26< mattsc> So I would start this by getting some playing experience against the AI, and understanding what its capabilities (and problems) are.
20130429 22:19:02< leo42> okkk that is somthing i stated doing alredy.... 
20130429 22:19:06< mattsc> The person you really want to talk to though is Crab_
20130429 22:19:08< leo42> thank you :)
20130429 22:19:26< leo42> i pm'd crab with the same msg...
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20130429 22:19:37< rsyh93> How would you start configuring the ai?
20130429 22:19:46< mattsc> leo42: yes, I saw, just confirming that he's the right person
20130429 22:20:03< rsyh93> I tried looking through the code but the size of it's kind of overwhelming
20130429 22:20:22< mattsc> leo42: Other than that, just ask questions here and be patient as the right person to answer might not be around.  The more specific a question you ask, the more likely it is that you'll get a response.
20130429 22:20:39< mattsc> ... and most people here read the logs, so it doesn't matter whether the right person is on at the time you ask.
20130429 22:21:14< mattsc> rsyh93: standard AI configuration:  http://wiki.wesnoth.org/AiWML
20130429 22:21:25< mattsc> Micro AIs: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Micro_AIs
20130429 22:22:10< rsyh93> alright thanks :D
20130429 22:24:51< mattsc> rsyh93: yeah, the AI code is pretty big and quite spread out.  Again, if you have questions, just ask.  Just keep in mind that it's much better though to ask something like "where does the AI do its attack evaluation" rather than "I need some help figuring out the AI"
20130429 22:26:10< rsyh93> okay I'll try to keep that in mind
20130429 22:29:32< rsyh93> Well then where should I look for the current recruitment code?
20130429 22:31:44< mattsc> rsyh93: src/ai/testing/ca_testing_recruitment.cpp
20130429 22:32:48< rsyh93> Ahh Thanks, that really helps :)
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20130429 22:46:49< anonymissimus> mattsc: so, I wrote a function that distributes enemy units onto the hexes adjacent to some hex in an optimized way and calculates and estimated danger value out of that :)
20130429 22:48:24< mattsc> anonymissimus: cool.  Could you remind me of the context?  :)
20130429 22:52:58< anonymissimus> well, choosing optimized heal postions
20130429 22:53:06< mattsc> It sounds like you're doing a counter attack calculation, but I forgot why and how it is different from what Fred does.
20130429 22:53:15< mattsc> oh, there...   ok
20130429 22:53:16< anonymissimus> but it should be suitable to choose safe positions in general
20130429 22:53:37< mattsc> anonymissimus: you did this in Lua I assume?
20130429 22:53:41< anonymissimus> pretty expensive though, and I bet it's doing some calculations several times
20130429 22:53:45< anonymissimus> yes
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20130429 22:54:13< mattsc> anonymissimus: yeah, Fred's libraries are full of routines like that, and optimizing them is what I spent most time on.
20130429 22:55:01< anonymissimus> I am weighing enemy units that can reach an adjacent hex rather simple; only their level counts
20130429 22:55:59< mattsc> anonymissimus: Hmm, cool.  I am not counting levels, but either simply units or HP.
20130429 22:56:28< mattsc> But we do have full counter attack evals available these days also.  Those are even more expensive.
20130429 22:57:21< mattsc> When you say "optimized way", how do you do that?
20130429 22:57:30< anonymissimus> yeah, that is difficult
20130429 22:58:12< anonymissimus> basically, I look at all units, look at their reachs, intersect with the adjacent hexes
20130429 22:58:41< anonymissimus> get a few units that can reach and for all of them store the hexes they can reach
20130429 22:59:43< anonymissimus> then look at that unit which has the highest level and the fewest reachable hexes and place it
20130429 23:00:03< anonymissimus> then delete the used up hex from all the other units
20130429 23:00:50< anonymissimus> then look at the next unit etc until no more units are there or all hexes used up
20130429 23:00:53< mattsc> anonymissimus: yeah, that sounds like a perfectly reasonable way to get an approximation of the best combination
20130429 23:01:24< mattsc> Have you checked out the different get_attack_combo functions in ai_helper and battle_calcs in AI-demos?
20130429 23:01:51< mattsc> E.g.: https://github.com/mattsc/Wesnoth-AI-Demos/blob/master/lua/ai_helper.lua#L1240
20130429 23:02:12< mattsc> or: https://github.com/mattsc/Wesnoth-AI-Demos/blob/master/lua/battle_calcs.lua#L1368
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20130429 23:02:43< mattsc> There are several others too, depending on what level of completeness you want.
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20130429 23:05:02< anonymissimus> well, this looks as confusing to me as my code does for you
20130429 23:05:32< mattsc> I bet it does.  Actually, it looks rather confusing to me myself also.  :)
20130429 23:05:36-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: current repo: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old (still to be fixed) | http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeIdeas | Will move the repo to github, please read the dev-ml! | 177 bugs, 333 feature requests, 27 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20130429 23:06:34< mattsc> anonymissimus: Great to know that you're working on this too!
20130429 23:07:00< mattsc> Any specific insights you have to share?
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20130429 23:10:06< anonymissimus> mattsc: your ai demos have grown pretty large and confusing; perhaps you may want to make some "A simple AI modification demo" addon instead of the practical guide ?
20130429 23:10:58< mattsc> anonymissimus: sorry?  which practical guide?
20130429 23:11:20< anonymissimus> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Practical_Guide_to_Modifying_AI_Behavior
20130429 23:11:40< mattsc> Oh, that ...
20130429 23:11:58< mattsc> Yes, those wiki pages need to be reworked badly.
20130429 23:12:31< mattsc> As for the simple demo add-on, the Micro AIs are kind of meant to be like that.  Just lots of them, rather than one single one.
20130429 23:12:38< mattsc> But I see your point, that makes sense.
20130429 23:12:38< anonymissimus> I realized that I wish to be able to make the healing units use their attacks; I'd need the ai.attack function for that I supposed ?
20130429 23:13:17< mattsc> anonymissimus: yes  (assuming you want to use a custom AI to do it, rather than an event)
20130429 23:13:25< anonymissimus> in pure event-scripting I would need to code the animations etc manually, no chance
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20130429 23:13:36< mattsc> right
20130429 23:14:03< mattsc> Yes, ai.attack() simply executes the attack - but it needs to be part of an AI stage.
20130429 23:14:51< mattsc> I'm pretty sure that you cannot execute it as part of a [lua] tag.  Or at least you shouldn't be able to.
20130429 23:19:27< anonymissimus> mattsc: you could have named the subtag simply [filter] btw, not healers
20130429 23:19:57< anonymissimus> and I hope you somehow keep what's in mainline in sync
20130429 23:20:19< anonymissimus> actually, those tags and code that are in mainline should no longer be in your addon
20130429 23:20:41< anonymissimus> I use what's in mainline, not in the addon
20130429 23:21:09< mattsc> anonymissimus: I know, however, some of the Micro AIs have several top-level SUFs and then they cannot both be called [filter]
20130429 23:21:29< mattsc> For example, it's quite conceivable that there will be a [healee] tag added also.
20130429 23:22:23< mattsc> And yes, I definitely update mainline from the AI-demos periodically.
20130429 23:23:05< mattsc> As for having them both in mainline and in the add-on, my idea behind that was to use the add-on for development, and then move things into mainline once they are mature.
20130429 23:23:28< mattsc> Is there a better way to do that?
20130429 23:25:24< anonymissimus> dunno, I don't have shared code
20130429 23:26:25< anonymissimus> you could name them filter and filter_second
20130429 23:26:30< mattsc> anonymissimus: hmm, as I have pointed out before, I really don't know what I am doing, so advice is always welcome.  :P
20130429 23:26:32< anonymissimus> makes sense in wesnoth logic
20130429 23:26:46< mattsc> anonymissimus: Hmm, true.
20130429 23:26:53< anonymissimus> filter the healers, and filter_second the healed units
20130429 23:28:39< anonymissimus> cna you add this filter_second pls ? I would want to heal level 2 units preferably, for instance
20130429 23:28:41< mattsc> Ok, yep, makes sense ...
20130429 23:29:38< mattsc> anonymissimus: sure, that's easy.  But that wouldn't preferentially heal L2s, but only those.
20130429 23:31:43< mattsc> anonymissimus: how about I rename the [micro_ai] tag in AI-demos to [micro_ai_demos] or something?
20130429 23:31:54< mattsc> Then there is no possible conflict, but I can still have both versions.
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20130429 23:32:52< anonymissimus> mattsc: no point in renaming, you'd still have 2 versions of basically the same
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20130429 23:33:51< mattsc> Hmm.  I guess I can always make the development version a fork, and only merge it back in when done...
20130429 23:33:53-!- Upth [~ogmar@108.85.91.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20130429 23:34:03< mattsc> Now i need to learn how to do that.  :P
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20130429 23:34:22< mattsc> (Yes, yes, I know.  It's not hard at all.)
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20130429 23:37:35< mattsc> anonymissimus: btw, thank you for all these comments!  Except for the people who helped develop this and a few individual comments here or there, this is the first real feedback we're getting on the MAIs.
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20130429 23:48:07< perennate> so, should future patches be submitted through gna or through github? o_O
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20130429 23:50:51< LordBob_> fabi: you there ?
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--- Log closed Tue Apr 30 00:00:46 2013