--- Log opened Wed Apr 17 00:00:18 2013
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20130417 00:36:55< alex-6_> hi is there a way to install wesnoth-1.10.6 on debian ?
20130417 00:37:49< shadowm> You could build it from source.
20130417 00:38:35< alex-6_> with aptitude or with make ?
20130417 00:39:23< shadowm> cmake or scons. Do you have a previous version of wesnoth-1.10 currently installed?
20130417 00:39:48< alex-6_> no
20130417 00:40:17< shadowm> Are you on squeeze or wheezy/sid?
20130417 00:40:20< alex-6_> oh yes sorry
20130417 00:40:24< alex-6_> I must uninstall it ?
20130417 00:40:34< alex-6_> I have a wheezy
20130417 00:40:56< shadowm> Yes, you'll probably want to uninstall your previous version after compiling 1.10.6 and before installing 1.10.6.
20130417 00:41:29< shadowm> # apt-get build-dep wesnoth-1.10   <- this should pull all the build-time dependencies for Wesnoth 1.10 if you have your apt sources correctly configured.
20130417 00:41:31< alex-6_> shadowm, so you advice me not to use aptitude build essential to compile ?
20130417 00:42:03< shadowm> Or you can replace apt-get with aptitude in that command line if you prefer aptitude for whatever reason.
20130417 00:42:27< alex-6_> the problem is my configuration I think
20130417 00:42:37< shadowm> What seems to be the problem?
20130417 00:42:44< alex-6_> I don't know how to tell apt-get or aptitude to use the experimental version (1.10.6)
20130417 00:42:58< shadowm> Oh, there's 1.10.6 in experimental.
20130417 00:43:00< shadowm> I didn't notice.
20130417 00:43:10< alex-6_> I tried with -t experimental but it tells it's not valid
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20130417 00:43:55< shadowm> Just edit your /etc/apt/sources.list and copy the lines for 'wheezy' into it replacing 'wheezy' with 'experimental'.
20130417 00:44:29< alex-6_> I did
20130417 00:44:36< shadowm> Then aptitude update?
20130417 00:44:39< alex-6_> y
20130417 00:44:50< shadowm> And?
20130417 00:45:05< alex-6_> it doesn't appear in synaptic, but maybe because it's a "deb-src" ?
20130417 00:45:19< alex-6_> I mean it only shows me the version 1.10.3
20130417 00:45:28< shadowm> Okay, you only copied the deb-src line, that's the problem.
20130417 00:45:41< alex-6_> I also need the deb line even for compiling ?
20130417 00:45:43< shadowm> deb-src lines are for source packages if you want to build them from source.
20130417 00:46:01< shadowm> Since 1.10.6 is in experimental, you can just install the pre-compiled packages.
20130417 00:46:36< shadowm> At least, I assume they work against wheezy as-is.
20130417 00:46:52< alex-6_> shadowm, you mean only testing/unstable can be compiled with testing ?
20130417 00:47:11< shadowm> No.
20130417 00:47:15< shadowm> Let's backtrack a little.
20130417 00:47:54< shadowm> Since 1.10.6 is in experimental and _probably_ works with wheezy as-is without having to recompile it, you should add the experimental distribution to your apt sources.
20130417 00:48:12< shadowm> For installing the precompiled packages, you must make sure you have a 'deb' line for experimental in your sources.
20130417 00:48:17< shadowm> Not 'deb-src'.
20130417 00:48:37< alex-6_> it's more recommanded to install the binary than the source on an experimental version ?
20130417 00:49:30< shadowm> This is not really about recommending either thing.
20130417 00:49:45< shadowm> Are you more comfortable with building software from source than installing pre-built packages?
20130417 00:49:58< alex-6_> well I'm used to gentoo more than debian
20130417 00:50:05< alex-6_> that's why I think "compiling"
20130417 00:50:17< alex-6_> but maybe that's wrong with debian
20130417 00:50:23< shadowm> But you don't need to, unless the wesnoth-1.10 version from experimental is broken in some way.
20130417 00:50:31< shadowm> I doubt it.
20130417 00:50:46< alex-6_> so more chnce the binary works than the source ?
20130417 00:50:49< alex-6_> chances)
20130417 00:50:58< shadowm> Sigh.
20130417 00:51:06< shadowm> Not really, you will not know unless you try it.
20130417 00:51:19< alex-6_> ok ^^
20130417 00:51:20< shadowm> If there are problems, odds are that aptitude will complain even before it downloads it.
20130417 00:51:43< shadowm> Just make sure that it is only grabbing and installing wesnoth-* packages and nothing else.
20130417 00:51:58< alex-6_> ok
20130417 00:54:19< alex-6_> so in all case the dependency problems there could be will be the same with compiling or using binary ?
20130417 00:54:31< shadowm> No.
20130417 00:55:05< shadowm> Okay, I just checked and you should be able to install wesnoth-1.10 from experimental on wheezy without encountering any dependency problems.
20130417 00:55:11< shadowm> And without compiling from source.
20130417 00:55:28< alex-6_> it's very strange, it doesn't complain about any dependency
20130417 00:55:38< shadowm> No, it isn't strange.
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20130417 00:56:02< alex-6_> last time I tried with the unstable version and there was a lot of conflicts
20130417 00:56:22< shadowm> http://pastebin.com/H9ccjkvA
20130417 00:56:43< shadowm> For reference.
20130417 00:57:04< shadowm> Now, I don't know exactly what you mean with "the unstable version".
20130417 00:57:27< shadowm> If you mean you tried to mix packages from sid (unstable) in your wheezy (testing) installation, then yes, that could lead to problems.
20130417 00:58:34< alex-6_> I don't understand why mixing testing/experimental doesn't lead to problems
20130417 00:58:44< shadowm> In the wesnoth-1.10 case, it doesn't.
20130417 00:59:00< shadowm> Try it with pretty much every other package, and you will either break your system or stumble upon broken dependencies.
20130417 01:00:22< alex-6_> so it depends of the cases you mean ?
20130417 01:00:25< shadowm> Mixing unstable with experimental should be pretty much equivalent to mixing testing with experimental, which is to say, unless you know well the packages you are installing, you may break your system.
20130417 01:01:40< shadowm> For example, there's a version of libc6 in experimental. Unless you know what its status is or are working with the packager on debugging it or something, you should stay away from it.
20130417 01:02:20< shadowm> The libraries installed by that package are installed by about 99% of all applications in your system, so if it is broken or buggy in some way, you can truly break your system.
20130417 01:02:44< alex-6_> like for wine experimental ^^
20130417 01:02:49< shadowm> Wesnoth, on the other hand, is a stand-alone application and doesn't install anything that's depended upon by other applications, so you can run the risk.
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20130417 01:03:26< alex-6_> ok thx very much your explanations are really complete
20130417 01:03:27< shadowm> I also suspect the packager would never upload a broken/untested version to experimental or any other suite, knowing her for years.
20130417 01:04:35< alex-6_> I asked a lot of people about that and it's the first time someone takes the time to answer me and explain me :)
20130417 01:04:38< alex-6_> thx a lot
20130417 01:05:00< alex-6_> you have a really nice way to explain
20130417 01:05:04< alex-6_> you should be teacher :D
20130417 01:05:31< shadowm> Last time I checked I am a pretty terrible teacher in practice.
20130417 01:08:07< alex-6_> doesn't seem
20130417 01:09:16< alex-6_> I wonder if wesnoth will seg fault as when I installed unstable packages on a stable debian :D
20130417 01:09:51< alex-6_> but I guess there is more compatibility beetweem testing and experimental than stable/unstable
20130417 01:10:54< shadowm> Wait.
20130417 01:11:03< shadowm> I thought you had mixed testing with unstable.
20130417 01:11:23< shadowm> Of course mixing stable with testing _or_ unstable is a terrible idea and the result is bound to be an absolute disaster.
20130417 01:11:28< alex-6_> well testing with wesnoth experimental
20130417 01:11:50< shadowm> (Unless you take certain steps to "backport" an unstable package to stable by rebuilding it -- but that isn't always possible without upgrading half your system.)
20130417 01:12:41< alex-6_> so my friend on debian stable will have a few chance to succeeding in installing wesnoth 1.10.6 ?
20130417 01:13:44< shadowm> Your friend on stable can just grab the source tarball we provide on our site and install the dependencies for the wesnoth version on stable via build-dep, and then some more.
20130417 01:13:53< shadowm> And then build from source.
20130417 01:14:49< shadowm> It might be possible to grab the source package for Wesnoth 1.10.6 from experimental instead and rebuild it against stable, too, but I wouldn't know if that would work.
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20130417 01:16:14< shadowm> I can only assure you that Wesnoth 1.10.x is _can_ be built against current Debian stable.
20130417 01:16:38< alex-6_> so you mean the tarball files can be build with build-dep ?
20130417 01:16:50< alex-6_> I thought it was only for the deb-scr files
20130417 01:17:09< shadowm> No, build-dep only grabs dependencies that would be needed to build the given source package.
20130417 01:17:20< alex-6_> ok
20130417 01:17:28< shadowm> It's the 'source' action with the -b switch that grabs a source package and builds it.
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20130417 01:17:46< alex-6_> so after doing it he would need to build with "make" ?
20130417 01:17:57< alex-6_> or create a deb file with dpkg ?
20130417 01:18:15< shadowm> "make" is not quite what we use.
20130417 01:18:28< shadowm> Okay, for Wesnoth 1.10.6 on stable you have two possible approaches:
20130417 01:19:07< shadowm> 1) Install build-time dependencies with build-dep and then some more (because stable has Wesnoth 1.8, which depends on a few less packages than 1.10), and then build our source tarball from wesnoth.org from source manually.
20130417 01:19:40< shadowm> 2) Add the experimental deb-src line and then use aptitude source -t experimental -b wesnoth-1.10, which may or may not work without pulling bogus dependencies.
20130417 01:19:54< shadowm> I don't have stable here to check whether (2) is actually viable.
20130417 01:20:53< alex-6_> so for choice 1) the build-dep will download binaries from stable repository ?
20130417 01:20:54< shadowm> Hm, s/aptitude/apt-get/
20130417 01:21:16< shadowm> aptitude doesn't support the 'source' action (which grabs the Debian source package and optionally builds it with the -b switch).
20130417 01:21:21< shadowm> alex-6_: Yes.
20130417 01:21:58< alex-6_> hum so stable dependencies would work with the tarball ?
20130417 01:22:40< shadowm> Yes, although you would need a few additional packages from stable that aren't pulled by the build-dep step because, again, Wesnoth 1.8 depends on a few less packages than 1.10.
20130417 01:23:17< shadowm> On the other hand, if you added the squeeze-backports suite to your sources (including the deb-src line), you could get all the dependencies for 1.10 via build-dep then.
20130417 01:23:39< shadowm> squeeze-backports has Wesnoth 1.10.3, which has the same dependencies as every other 1.10.x version.
20130417 01:24:34< alex-6_> nice
20130417 01:24:57< alex-6_> seems like everything as been made in a way people can use 1.10.6 :)
20130417 01:26:26< alex-6_> well, thx a lot again shadowm I will not ask you questions anymore, I just realized I'm asking you questions since 50 minutes :D
20130417 01:26:55< alex-6_> plus I have all answers I needed :)
20130417 01:28:02< alex-6_> I launched wesnoth 1.10.6 and it works :)
20130417 01:28:06< shadowm> Good.
20130417 01:28:43< alex-6_> well goodnight and gooluck if some other people like come to ask you a lot of questions ;)
20130417 01:29:24< alex-6_> bye ^^
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--- Log closed Thu Apr 18 00:00:22 2013