--- Log opened Sun May 26 00:00:52 2013
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20130526 00:42:19< irker437> wesnoth: Alexander van Gessel wesnoth-old:master 55241e / images/ (301 files in 6 dirs): Optipng run http://git.io/4rlhSQ
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20130526 05:37:41-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: current repo: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old (Please read the dev-ml for the latest status!) | http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeIdeas | 186 bugs, 332 feature requests, 30 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20130526 06:42:54< shadowm> fabi: I am seeing a "Transition update" menu item in the map editor's Map menu. That should be "Transition Update" instead (title case!).
20130526 06:43:21< fabi> shadowm: Thank you. I will fix it at once.
20130526 06:43:42< shadowm> Also, for some weird reason, if I press the left or right arrow keys to move the viewport while the mouse is on the sidebar, the zoom slider reacts to that.
20130526 06:44:16< fabi> shadowm: Yes, there is something wrong with the slider class. It always believes to have the keyboard focus.
20130526 06:44:59< shadowm> Ah, yes, I see that in the main GUI1 preferences dialog.
20130526 06:45:14< fabi> shadowm: You do not even need to have the mouse hovering in the near. Just scroll to the edge of a map and keep pressing the button. The slider will move. 
20130526 06:45:16< shadowm> No matter which slider I last clicked on the General page, it's always the topmost one that reacts to keypresses.
20130526 06:46:17< fabi> Yes. I have not yet understand the system behind the focus. Thus no idea yet how to fix it.
20130526 06:51:37< irker437> wesnoth: fendrin wesnoth-old:master 4807f4 / data/themes/editor.cfg: "Transition *u*pdate" ---> "Transition *U*pdate" http://git.io/krVsUQ
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20130526 09:04:08< irker437> wesnoth: Richard Kettering wesnoth-old:master 24d323 / data/campaigns/Heir_To_The_Throne/images/portraits/ (8 files): New portraits for delfador, asheviere, and moremirmu in HttT. http://git.io/VrXsdg
20130526 09:06:30< irker437> wesnoth: Richard Kettering wesnoth-old:master f60b36 / data/campaigns/Delfadors_Memoirs/images/portraits/old_delfador.png: New portrait for old-delfador in delfador's memoirs. http://git.io/Jgph2Q
20130526 09:07:36< irker437> wesnoth: Richard Kettering wesnoth-old:master daf200 / data/campaigns/tutorial/images/portraits/delfador.png: New portrait for old-delfador in tutorial. http://git.io/3rY7mA
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20130526 09:38:56< fabi> hi LordBob_
20130526 09:39:05< LordBob_> hello fabi 
20130526 09:39:32< fabi> LordBob_: I noticed that clicking on a slidebar does no longer mark them as pressed.
20130526 09:40:25< fabi> LordBob_: The image is there but very similar, maybe exactly the same.
20130526 09:41:18< LordBob_> fabi: I did notice that as well. I did make distinct images, though. I'll check if there has been a mix up while committing
20130526 09:44:46< LordBob_> fabi: there is a difference in levels between active and pressed (the latter should be slightly brighter), and the files do show it
20130526 09:45:25< LordBob_> fabi: I'll check what's happening in game and maybe do a couple tests
20130526 09:45:59< fabi> LordBob_: Maybe the file is wrongly named.
20130526 09:47:39< LordBob_> fabi: if it was a matter of file not found, would there not be an error message, or a blank image ? 
20130526 09:47:54< fabi> LordBob_: Let me look in the code.
20130526 09:49:27< fabi> LordBob_: It is working for gui2 bars, not for gui1. Maybe it never worked with gui1.
20130526 09:50:51< fabi> LordBob_: Right, it never worked with gui1 slidebars.
20130526 09:51:18< LordBob_> Fabi: Ah. Is it a matter of filename, or something different yet ? 
20130526 09:52:02< fabi> LordBob_: I think it never got implemented to display another image when pressed in gui1.
20130526 09:53:20< LordBob_> Ok, I've just witnessed it myself
20130526 09:54:21< LordBob_> fabi: while we're on the subject of scrollbars, would it be much work to replace the scroll up/down buttons with the overlayed arrow buttons that you've coded for the palettes ?
20130526 09:54:50< LordBob_> (and also scroll left/right, although this might involve creating the buttons first)
20130526 09:55:13< fabi> LordBob_: No, I will do it right now. It's the same class and file anyway.
20130526 09:55:39< LordBob_> Great :)
20130526 09:57:39< LordBob_> fabi: I'm revising the 800*600 backgrounds. I'll post them as soon as they're done and notice you if it breaks anything
20130526 09:58:39< fabi> LordBob_: It surely will, we have 2 images for the high resolutions, but only one tool panel for the lower ones.
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20130526 09:59:38< fabi> LordBob_: It would be easier if the 2 images tools and tools-options would be a single one, but also a little bit less flexible.
20130526 10:01:08< LordBob_> Hmm...Would you prefer if they were a single image everywhere, or is it okay if I provide a single image for lowres and keep high res unchanged ?
20130526 10:03:49< LordBob_> Fabi: oh wait...That's a stupid question. There are already two images for high-res and one for low-res ^^;;;
20130526 10:04:11< fabi> :-)
20130526 10:04:40< LordBob_> fabi: so I take it you'd prefer the high-res tools+tools option to be merged into a single image
20130526 10:05:27< LordBob_> fabi: I'll do that; it's not much work, and there's hardly a chance we ever want to separate those palettes
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20130526 10:09:49< fabi> LordBob_: Yeah, please do it.
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20130526 10:18:34< irker437> wesnoth: Emilien Rotival wesnoth-old:master 378d76 / data/core/images/themes/editor/classic/ (tools.png tools_options.png): merged the tools + tools options palettes in the editor theme artwork http://git.io/yU5Gow
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20130526 10:37:57< irker437> wesnoth: Emilien Rotival wesnoth-old:master be7516 / data/core/images/themes/editor/classic/ (12 files): revised slicing for the 800x600 editor theme http://git.io/kTQo9w
20130526 10:39:48< LordBob_> fabi: backgrounds are done; I renamed the 800x600 files for better consistency and only included those parts that differe between high-res and low-res, so there might be a little more work involved on your side 
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20130526 10:40:04< LordBob_> *differ
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20130526 10:45:27< fabi> LordBob_: Thank you :-)
20130526 10:55:23< fabi> LordBob_: I currently work on using the background item of the palette to select a group of units, those can be used for defining a leader's recruit list for example.
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20130526 11:37:41-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: current repo: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old (Please read the dev-ml for the latest status!) | http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeIdeas | 187 bugs, 332 feature requests, 30 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20130526 12:03:43< LordBob_> fabi: there ?
20130526 12:03:53< fabi> LordBob_: yes
20130526 12:05:22< LordBob_> fabi: now that the backgrounds are done, and the last few details well underway, I wanted to check what's left for me to do in the editor UI
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20130526 12:05:55< LordBob_> fabi: on the list of things that have artwork but not yet code, I have noted:
20130526 12:06:01< LordBob_> - the scrolling buttons
20130526 12:06:08< LordBob_> - the resize buttons
20130526 12:06:21< LordBob_> - the highlighted selector for menus
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20130526 12:06:50< fabi> LordBob_: The fancy thing that should overlap the map in the frame's corner.
20130526 12:07:07< LordBob_> that too, yeah
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20130526 12:07:30< LordBob_> fabi: on the list of things that still need artwork, I have noted the possible buttons separators for the upper tool bars
20130526 12:07:54< fabi> optional
20130526 12:08:17< LordBob_> ok, let's say we come back to it in the finishing phase
20130526 12:08:26< fabi> yepp
20130526 12:08:43< LordBob_> oh, and in the first list I should count the additional dialog styles
20130526 12:09:30< LordBob_> fabi: do you see anything I would have missed in the "needs artwork" list ?
20130526 12:10:05< fabi> LordBob_: icons for the items.
20130526 12:10:09< fabi> :-)
20130526 12:10:56< fabi> LordBob_: And some artwork for the "soundsources" tool.
20130526 12:11:24< fabi> LordBob_: Which has to be discussed, since I still have no idea how it could work.
20130526 12:12:28< LordBob_> Hmm...Don't we already have all the item artwork we need in data/core/images/icons ? .
20130526 12:13:34< LordBob_> (that, and the attack icons)
20130526 12:13:57< fabi> LordBob_: Hmmm, do you know what I am talking about when I say "item"?
20130526 12:14:29< LordBob_> I'm not sure, actually. Are they the objects shown in data/core/images/items ?
20130526 12:14:39< fabi> yes
20130526 12:15:00< fabi> I display them in the palette.
20130526 12:15:09< fabi> And thus I need group icons for them.
20130526 12:15:21< fabi> I believe we still lack of them, but I might be wrong.
20130526 12:16:51< LordBob_> Ah. We don't have artwork for sure, but then we don't have groups yet either
20130526 12:17:23< fabi> LordBob_: The icons in "scenery" go in the palette as well.
20130526 12:17:26< LordBob_> (at least none that I know of)
20130526 12:17:47< fabi> Thus we have at least two groups: "Items" and "scenery" 
20130526 12:18:25< fabi> But many addons (especially the RPG like ones) have a huge amount of items.
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20130526 12:18:58< fabi> Thus we could have "Weapons", "Potions", Clothes/Armor and more.
20130526 12:19:45< LordBob_> Hmm...Yeah, that's a possibility. I can easily create a dozen icons for such generic categories
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20130526 12:21:10< LordBob_> Though there'll surely be some coding involved afterwards to sort items into their respective categories...Is this okay ?
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20130526 12:25:40< fabi> LordBob_: I have already done the coding, you can produce as many categories as you like.
20130526 12:26:34< LordBob_> fabi: this is fine well for us... But won't it force 
20130526 12:26:49< LordBob_> won't it force addtional work on UMC developpers ?
20130526 12:26:57< fabi> hmmm
20130526 12:27:03< fabi> in what way?
20130526 12:27:55< LordBob_> wouldn't they have to go back to existing items in their content and retrofit them in the categories we create ?
20130526 12:29:33< fabi> For every [item] they want to be placeable in the editor the UMC designer needs to register it and thus make it known to the editor.
20130526 12:29:58< fabi> At that point she also defines the group the [item] falls into.
20130526 12:31:33< LordBob_> So in other words it's a step they'll have to take anyway if they want to use their content in the editor ? Oh well, right then.
20130526 12:31:35< fabi> This is true for most of the new editor features. Addon designers need to solve extra work to make it known to the editor.
20130526 12:31:45< fabi> And the old ones.
20130526 12:32:02< fabi> New terrain types in an addon had to register to the editor since ages.
20130526 12:32:51< fabi> s/to register/to be registered
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20130526 14:31:06< irker437> wesnoth: Boldizsár Lipka wesnoth-old:new_mp_create_ui 034fa5 / src/multiplayer_configure.cpp: Un-break the configure screen layout. http://git.io/oPPKQw
20130526 14:31:08< irker437> wesnoth: Boldizsár Lipka wesnoth-old:new_mp_create_ui a92213 / src/ (multiplayer_configure.cpp multiplayer_configure.hpp): Put some controls in a scroll pane. http://git.io/6qMI-Q
20130526 14:31:11< irker437> wesnoth: Boldizsár Lipka wesnoth-old:master 275719 / src/CMakeLists.txt: Add some missing sources to CMake. Fabi owes me a cookie. http://git.io/-xz7Ig
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20130526 15:38:24< irker437> wesnoth: Boldizsár Lipka wesnoth-old:master e72dd5 / changelog data/core/macros/sound-utils.cfg: New playlist FULL_MUSIC_PLAYLIST, containing all tracks. http://git.io/iRl7Ug
20130526 15:38:26< irker437> wesnoth: Boldizsár Lipka wesnoth-old:master efd2ab / data/core/macros/sound-utils.cfg: Macro documentation for FULL_MUSIC_PLAYLIST. http://git.io/VGqNCw
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20130526 15:52:53< lipkab> fabi, vultraz: Is the game supposed to crash when I click on "Time Schedule Menu"?
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20130526 15:53:34< vultraz> no idea, none of my code is cmmitted
20130526 15:54:00< vultraz> But I'd say no, it isn't...
20130526 15:54:49< lipkab> Oh, hmm, ok.
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20130526 17:05:11< matthiaskrgr> "current repo: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old" wesnoth changed to git ? 
20130526 17:06:08< AI0867> yes
20130526 17:07:18< matthiaskrgr> ok 
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20130526 17:37:41-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: current repo: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old (Please read the dev-ml for the latest status!) | http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeIdeas | 187 bugs, 332 feature requests, 31 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20130526 18:33:07< trademark>  wesbot !seen mordante
20130526 18:33:15< trademark> wesbot, !seen mordante
20130526 18:33:15< wesbot> trademark: The person with the nick mordante last spoke 2d 20h ago.  2d 20h ago was here and on the channel #wesnoth-de with the message: Quit: Leaving
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20130526 20:02:19< fabi> LordBob_: Around?
20130526 20:02:27< LordBob_> fabi: yup
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20130526 20:02:57< LordBob_> I'm working on prospective templates for the game UI
20130526 20:03:40< fabi> lipkab: Silly boy. Wesnoth shall never ever crash at all, please always tell me how to reproduce, simply clicking on the time schedule something doesn't trigger it :-)
20130526 20:04:24< fabi> LordBob_: Hmmm, no idea what that could be. A prospector is a man or dwarf with a tool to find minerals, right?
20130526 20:05:01< LordBob_> oh. synonym for potential
20130526 20:05:11< fabi> I see.
20130526 20:05:47< fabi> LordBob_: May I take your focus and discuss the soundsource tool, note that it isn't urgent at all.
20130526 20:05:50< fabi> ?
20130526 20:06:08< LordBob_> Of course. And in return, I'll share a few thoughts about the game UI ;)
20130526 20:06:38< fabi> Well, let's talk about the game UI first. That topic is more interesting IMHO.
20130526 20:06:49-!- lipkab [~lipk@host-91-147-212-174.biatv.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
20130526 20:07:32< LordBob_> Ah-ah :D
20130526 20:08:30< fabi> I am listening.
20130526 20:08:54< LordBob_> fabi: in fact, I'm specifically working on the unit info sidebar. I'm trying to come up with a design that would allow to include the key info of the combat preview panel
20130526 20:11:44< thunderstruck> fabi, hi.
20130526 20:12:01< fabi> LordBob_: Does your design feature side by side comparison of two units, beside the combat preview values?
20130526 20:12:01< thunderstruck> fabi, could you tell me more about that bug you mentioned a few days ago?
20130526 20:12:06< fabi> thunderstruck: hello :-)
20130526 20:12:17< fabi> thunderstruck: Yes, it is quite simple. 
20130526 20:12:37< fabi> thunderstruck: Say you have a scenario that features multiple [unit] definition in [side].
20130526 20:12:56< LordBob_> fabi: that's precisely what I'm trying to do
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20130526 20:13:39< LordBob_> fabi: but other than a varying display, I haven't been able to think of anything satisfying so far
20130526 20:14:02< fabi> thunderstruck: Every [unit] in [side] is lost with the "Shuffle Sides" feature enabled in MP games. Except the leader, who is also defined in a [unit] tag which implies a no_leader=yes attribute to be set.
20130526 20:14:25< LordBob_> (meaning, the content of the unit info panel would vary depending on wether or not an enemy unit is being hovered)
20130526 20:14:32< thunderstruck> fabi, what do you mean by "lost"?
20130526 20:15:10< fabi> thunderstruck: The engine just ignores it. The unit is not onboard at scenario start. There is not even an error message. Just not there.
20130526 20:15:42< thunderstruck> fabi, hmm.. that didn't happen to me.
20130526 20:16:16< thunderstruck> fabi, I'll double check later today or tomorrow (just switched to debian and need to install a bunch of stuff now)
20130526 20:16:20< fabi> thunderstruck: May I ask which scenario you tried, where several [unit]s are defined in the [side] tags?
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20130526 20:16:27< LordBob_> fabi: the way I see it, side by side comparison implies very little horizontal space ; therefore, we'd have to make a "minimal" display of key informations when comparing, compared to the full "character sheet"
20130526 20:16:37< thunderstruck> fabi, I've tried my own scenario.
20130526 20:17:03< thunderstruck> fabi, to be honest, I stole that scenario from lipkab's bug report
20130526 20:17:13< fabi> thunderstruck: Please give me a link to it.
20130526 20:17:14< thunderstruck> fabi, and then modified it
20130526 20:17:53< thunderstruck> fabi, it is now in my external hdd with all other back-up files.
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20130526 20:18:08< thunderstruck> fabi, I'll contact you then I got it sorted out.
20130526 20:18:49< fabi> thunderstruck: Well, current editor output is reported to produce such a scenario (test scenario and wesnoth scenario).
20130526 20:19:16< fabi> thunderstruck: Just tell me if the editor is working wrong or if the engine is buggy :-P
20130526 20:19:44< LordBob_> fabi: so my first question would be, can we handle dual display within a single area ?
20130526 20:20:03< fabi> thunderstruck: Note that the editor's scenario output is extremely huge currently since it is in fact savefile WML.
20130526 20:20:12< LordBob_> (of both information and backgrounds)
20130526 20:20:26< fabi> thunderstruck: Thus I must admit that usual WMl used in scenarios might not be affected by the bug.
20130526 20:21:12< fabi> thunderstruck: Still I believe that your scenario is not an exact match setup wise. I think you used the toplevel [side] to define the leader.
20130526 20:21:38< thunderstruck> fabi, yes
20130526 20:21:58< thunderstruck> fabi, can you send me your test case if you have one?
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20130526 20:23:03< fabi> LordBob_: Well, my vision is the two units being shown under a round circle displaying the firmament, filled with the time of day display, modified for each side if the units are influenced by some time shifting thing.
20130526 20:23:41< fabi> LordBob_: The terrain the units are standing on is somehow blended beyond them into the scene.
20130526 20:24:23< anonymissimus> fabi: can you make use of FULL_MUSIC_PLAYLIST macro in the editor ? basically, an ingame music player, which is very useful for scenario designers, and actually more useful by showing the id/filename instead of the title
20130526 20:24:37< fabi> LordBob_: Thus one little blink to the units is telling you which units are facing on what terrain in a certain time of day.
20130526 20:24:41< anonymissimus> you should show the title only in addition
20130526 20:25:21< fabi> anonymissimus: Ah cool, I thought I would need to add all the stuff by hand. Would you be so nice and do the fix?
20130526 20:25:43< LordBob_> fabi: we're more or less thinking the same. here's what I have so far: http://imagebin.org/259064
20130526 20:25:49< anonymissimus> I sometimes installed an independent ogg player only for going through the wesnoth music and categorize them
20130526 20:25:56< LordBob_> fabi: the upper half is the minimap + overal TOD
20130526 20:26:06< anonymissimus> fabi: I have no idea about that, sorry
20130526 20:26:11< LordBob_> fabi: the lower half is the unit info 
20130526 20:26:39< LordBob_> fabi: which is where problems arise: as you can see, we have very limited horizontal space is thins configuration
20130526 20:27:27< anonymissimus> mordante: just to be sure you don't miss this and possibly do redundant work, someone updated cmake for you: http://gna.org/bugs/?20841
20130526 20:27:34< LordBob_> fabi: therefore, I would like the unit display to switch to full-width when the comparison isn't active
20130526 20:28:22< fabi> LordBob_: Well no. I like to blend the units into the firmament.
20130526 20:29:19< LordBob_> So you would want a single display for the unit sprite and ToD ?
20130526 20:29:49< fabi> anonymissimus: I read your git hints, they seem to work well so far. But I didn't had a that grave problem with git so far.
20130526 20:32:35< fabi> anonymissimus: The FULL_MUSIC_PLAYLIST is not defined in my copy. At least I can't find it. Would you give me a hint, please?
20130526 20:33:47< fabi> LordBob_: A singel info for units, the terrain they are standing on and the time of day that applies.
20130526 20:34:03< anonymissimus> fabi: pull ?
20130526 20:34:20< anonymissimus> commit e72dd524c908a78d5a02c002db8cb96370a03a02
20130526 20:34:20< fabi> LordBob_: If done right that could be a beauty.
20130526 20:34:36< LordBob_> fabi: that's doable, but the dual "global" vs "local" TOD might be tricky
20130526 20:35:06< anonymissimus> perhaps I'm mistaken in thinking that that gui element is somehow wml-defined though
20130526 20:35:23< fabi> anonymissimus: Please be so kind and give me a working link, I am a very lazy person.
20130526 20:35:25< LordBob_> fabi: for instance, a unit that is underground would require a "cave" overlay on top of the "sky'" image. Is that possible ?
20130526 20:35:28< anonymissimus> or in that a macro meant for scenarios can be used
20130526 20:35:54< anonymissimus> fabi: working link for what ?
20130526 20:36:08< fabi> anonymissimus: e72dd524c908a78d5a02c002db8cb96370a03a02
20130526 20:36:27< LordBob_> fabi: as for the ground, displaying masked hexes of terrain might very well do the trick
20130526 20:36:46< anonymissimus> fabi: I mean you should use git pull to get this commit
20130526 20:36:51< fabi> LordBob_: Well, let's say I would be willing to dedicate enough time to make that happen.
20130526 20:37:28< LordBob_> Hmm... It opens a world of possibilities :D
20130526 20:38:28< LordBob_> fabi: I'll work some more on the concept then, this short chat has given me plenty of ideas :D
20130526 20:38:44< fabi> LordBob_: Most time shifts are already represented by overlays. Which only do some darkening or sunshine effect. Those would pretty much work out of the box. It's easy to only apply them to half of the firmament.
20130526 20:39:24< LordBob_> fabi: aye. But doing so in a beautiful fashion might be trickier :p
20130526 20:40:03< fabi> LordBob_: The areas that blend just need to be a little rounded and get more transparent at the borders. That is easy. 
20130526 20:41:14< LordBob_> fabi: oh, I know about that. I'm not implying it's going to be difficult: /interesting/, rather.
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20130526 20:42:23< LordBob_> fabi: anyway, I'll do some more mockups before we dscuss it again. There's also the delicate matter of the icon vs text display
20130526 20:42:34-!- esr [~esr@static-71-162-243-5.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
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20130526 20:43:05< fabi> hi esr
20130526 20:44:08< fabi> LordBob_: Do you want to start at once, or is there still some time to talk about the soundsource thing?
20130526 20:44:24< LordBob_> nono, let's discuss soundsources as well
20130526 20:51:17< fabi> Okay, a soundsource is just a hex field that omits some sound. It has a radios and fades away under configurable circumstances.
20130526 20:51:27< fabi> wesbot: seen Jetrel?
20130526 20:51:27< wesbot> fabi: The person with the nick Jetrel last spoke 33d 19h ago.  33d 15h ago they left with the message: Read error: Connection reset by peer
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20130526 20:53:58< fabi> LordBob_: You can have a pretty good impression from what [soundsource] is able to do from the wike: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/InterfaceActionsWML#.5Bsound_source.5D
20130526 20:54:28< fabi> anonymissimus: Yes, I got that. Still a link would be nice to let me see where to look.
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20130526 20:57:39< LordBob_> fabi: you did show that page a while ago ; what would be needed art-wise, other than sound group icons and maybe a soundsource "map sprite" ?
20130526 20:58:48< anonymissimus> fabi: I do such thing by looking in my diff viewer
20130526 20:58:56< fabi> LordBob_: Well, groups a thing of the palette.
20130526 20:59:10< fabi> LordBob_: But I don't know if the tool will feature a palete.
20130526 20:59:24< anonymissimus> of course, view-it-in-the-shell is not as nice as at github, but a gui diff viewer is better
20130526 20:59:47< LordBob_> fabi: True, maybe a simple file list would work better for this particular tool
20130526 20:59:58< fabi> The thing is: We have no images for the sounds and the sound itself is not much of a visual thing.
20130526 21:01:01< LordBob_> fabi: the way I see it, we need a visual element that shows map hexes where a soundsource is applied. Other than that, it's mostly a matter of an adequate dialog
20130526 21:01:13< fabi> True.
20130526 21:02:22< LordBob_> fabi: something very simple, such as a music note, would work, I think
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20130526 21:03:03< fabi> LordBob_: You forget about the radius.
20130526 21:03:27< zookeeper> a note says "music", so maybe a normal speaker icon would work better
20130526 21:04:08< LordBob_> zookeeper: true. I thought "note" because that's what the tool cursor looks like, but it can be anything else.
20130526 21:04:58< LordBob_> fabi: then two icons: one for the soundsource itself, a second for hexes that are within range
20130526 21:06:00< fabi> LordBob_: Can we have them in magenta?
20130526 21:06:12< LordBob_> Sure
20130526 21:07:13< LordBob_> Do you mean magenta as in "team colours", or just as a flashy hue that has no chance of not being seen ?
20130526 21:08:34< fabi> LordBob_: Well, team colors could be useful if they overlap each other. 
20130526 21:09:26< LordBob_> Okay. I'll do the icons using the colorable TC hues, then, just in case
20130526 21:10:51< fabi> LordBob_: Note that we also have the green palette to apply color shifting on, like it is used for the flags. shadowm might know more why two different systems exist.
20130526 21:13:50< LordBob_> fabi: duly noted. In doubt, I'll create a file in which I can easily switch colors
20130526 21:14:53< fabi> LordBob_: Well, the green palette might have a much shorter range, as far is I understood it is not a full range of colors but only certain exact values threated as team/flag colors and their number is limited.
20130526 21:15:32< fabi> are threated. And several missing ,,, and ... 
20130526 21:16:19< LordBob_> whereas the magenta TC palette could cover a wider range of colours ? Noted
20130526 21:16:46< fabi> LordBob_: I think yo. Do you have any experience with the TC stuff?
20130526 21:17:36< LordBob_> Not yet, but hopefully it's something I can pick up easily enough. Anyway, time for me to do some other stuff. I'll be back later tonight, hopefully with some GUI mock-ups to discuss :)
20130526 21:17:43< shadowm> fabi: All I know is that the green palette is actually a linear progression from #00FF00 to #000100, whereas the magenta palette has just a few shades.
20130526 21:17:57< fabi> LordBob_: ^
20130526 21:18:04< shadowm> So yeah, you got it the other way around.
20130526 21:18:09< fabi> LordBob_: It seems the green one is mightier.
20130526 21:18:34< LordBob_> shadowm: thanks for the input
20130526 21:18:41< fabi> shadowm: Because terrain art is no pixel art but unit art is. Got it.
20130526 21:19:05< shadowm> I think flags are actually pixel art, n.
20130526 21:19:48< shadowm> Either way, Wesnoth RCX exists if you need to play around with team colors.
20130526 21:19:52-!- lipkab [~lipk@host-91-147-212-174.biatv.hu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130526 21:20:00< fabi> Do you see the nice signs in your message? Do my messages contain those things as well? öäü߀
20130526 21:21:03< shadowm> It's an SSH thing at my end. Ignore it.
20130526 21:21:13< lipkab> fabi: "lipkab: Silly boy. Wesnoth shall never ever crash at all:-)" <- I can never tell with you workflow :P
20130526 21:21:41< shadowm> And I don't see "nice sings" on my line in the IRC log, just an invalid UTF-8 sequence which does not fit the 'nice' description at all.
20130526 21:21:57< fabi> shadowm: Well, I had my problem to compile the nice RCX on linux and it gave me some troubles. I guess lord bob will have them as well.
20130526 21:22:24< fabi> shadowm: Still that is an option if you talk him through it. Maybe together with a mac guru.
20130526 21:22:36< shadowm> No, he won't because Alarantalara made a prebuilt Mac OS X package.
20130526 21:22:46< shadowm> Also, what problems on Linux and why wasn't I informed of this before?
20130526 21:23:39< fabi> lipkab: Fine, still you didn't gave me much to play with. Please, please with sugar on the top, tell me how to reproduce the bug. Is there a bug report at gna?
20130526 21:24:15< lipkab> fabi: I open up the editor, click at the Schedule button, and get this: http://pastebin.com/Xc93yWYb
20130526 21:24:28< lipkab> There's no bug report yet.
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20130526 21:25:40< lipkab> fabi: BTW, I've committed a new playlist macro which contains all music files in alphabetical order.
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20130526 21:27:15< fabi> lipkab: Okay, I can not produce that at all, no bug here. Can you give me a full stacktrace?
20130526 21:27:51< lipkab> fabi: I don't have a debug build :(
20130526 21:28:12< fabi> lipkab: But your build matches current master?
20130526 21:28:19< lipkab> fabi: Yes.
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20130526 21:28:32< fabi> lipkab: Let me rebase and compile to make at least the codebase equal between our systems.
20130526 21:28:37< fabi> lipkab: Are you on windows?
20130526 21:28:56< lipkab> fabi: Linux.
20130526 21:29:45< fabi> lipkab: By any chance, is it current ubuntu?
20130526 21:30:29< lipkab> fabi: Mint Maya (== Ubuntu Precise).
20130526 21:31:44< lipkab> fabi: ...and once you've done playing with that I've got this for you as well: http://imagebin.org/259073
20130526 21:33:11< fabi> lipkab: Yeah, my commits are a little out of sync with Lord Bob. Meaning he is faster in drawing than I can code behind him. Please do not disturb his workflow. I am glad he joined the channel and learned that much of the technical stuff so far. 
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20130526 21:33:45< fabi> lipkab: Thus the lower resolution is known to be broken.
20130526 21:34:33< lipkab> Ok.
20130526 21:35:37-!- irker045 [~irker@ai0867.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130526 21:35:37< irker045> wesnoth: Vinícius dos Santos Oliveira wesnoth-old:master 3f36ec / src/ (unit.cpp unit.hpp): Refactoring unit class to use boost::scoped_ptr instead of raw pointer. http://git.io/vQ5ebQ
20130526 21:35:39< irker045> wesnoth: Alexander van Gessel wesnoth-old:master 8388f9 / src/ (unit.cpp unit.hpp): Merge pull request #5 http://git.io/BIyPCg
20130526 21:35:41< irker045> wesnoth: Alexander van Gessel wesnoth-old:master 8ae940 / changelog data/core/macros/sound-utils.cfg: Merge branch 'master' of github.com:wesnoth/wesnoth-old http://git.io/sesPbg
20130526 21:35:55< fabi> I mean, we could be a little tolerant if a commit breaks the gui as long as we still have to learn a perfect team workflow.
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20130526 21:41:05< fabi> lipkab: Okay, pull rebase + recompile does not help to reproduce the exit. I guess you doing a debug compile is the next logical step. May I ask why you do not have a debug build available?
20130526 21:43:06< lipkab> fabi: I don't use gdb.
20130526 21:43:57< fabi> lipkab: Just use and debugger that suits you. I don't mind as long as it produces a usable stack trace.
20130526 21:44:06< fabi> s/and/any
20130526 21:44:53< lipkab> fabi: I don't use any debuggers. That was meant as an answer for the "why no debug build" question.
20130526 21:45:20< lipkab> I'll launch a build now but it'll take a while...
20130526 21:46:34< fabi> lipkab: Debuggers are really friendly little pets. Mine is really helpful most of the times.
20130526 21:47:34< lipkab> fabi: Wesnoth + debugger = frozen system. I'm not really up to date on the hardware front.
20130526 21:49:43< Soliton> you don't need a debug build to use a debugger.
20130526 21:52:50< lipkab> Soliton: But I need a debug build to create a stack trace.
20130526 21:53:08< lipkab> And we are talking about stack traces here.
20130526 21:53:17< lipkab> Or at least we were.
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20130526 21:54:03< Soliton> no, you don't was my point.
20130526 21:54:33< Soliton> you only need a debug build if you cannot figure it out without line numbers.
20130526 21:55:46< fabi> Soliton: Sure? There is no other kind of annotation?
20130526 21:56:14< fabi> Soliton: Simple line number wouldn't blow my debug build up to 500+ MB.
20130526 21:56:50< anonymissimus> AI0867: there's also a patch http://gna.org/patch/?3914 oO
20130526 21:57:08< shadowm> fabi: 15:22:45 <shadowm> Also, what problems on Linux and why wasn't I informed of this before?
20130526 21:57:34< Soliton> fabi: there is even more in a debug build, yes.
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20130526 21:59:45< fabi> shadowm: My client didn't log that line.
20130526 21:59:53< fabi> shadowm: Is it from today?
20130526 22:00:32< shadowm> fabi: It is from today approximately 38 minutes ago.
20130526 22:01:39< shadowm> I also said there's a prebuilt RCX package for Mac OS X.
20130526 22:03:11< fabi> shadowm: I do not know about linux problems in particular. It went fine enough for my taste. Just the procedure wasn't very, let's say "artist friendly". Lord Bob is used to do everything on a gui. Most Mac users are. Sadly. The mac features a usable commandline.
20130526 22:04:03< shadowm> fabi: Uh, yes, and RCX is a GUI application.
20130526 22:04:06< fabi> shadowm: Would you just talk Lord Bob through the procedure of installing and using the tool on mac, if you know how?
20130526 22:04:13< shadowm> You aren't thinking of Wesnoth-TC instead, right?
20130526 22:04:25< fabi> I tried both tools.
20130526 22:04:39< shadowm> The procedure for RCX on a Mac is "download and double click on the downloaded file" AFAIK.
20130526 22:04:52< shadowm> It's a prebuilt bundle like any other standard Mac OS X application.
20130526 22:05:02< fabi> Both weren't very easy to compile, having a binary would master the biggest problem already.
20130526 22:05:35< shadowm> First, Wesnoth-TC is unmaintained and out of the question.
20130526 22:05:49< shadowm> As for RCX, there's both prebuilt Windows and Mac OS X binaries which don't need any installing procedure.
20130526 22:06:15< shadowm> Now, I expect Linux users to be able to follow the instructions in the INSTALL if they are able to use Linux regularly in the first place.
20130526 22:09:07< fabi> Indeed. I had no major problems. 
20130526 22:09:20< fabi> It is just that lordBob != fabi/fendrin
20130526 22:09:32< LordBob_> Hmmm... If it's a bundle  install then no problem, but what is RCX exactly ? So far, googling the term returned a variety of things ranging from lego robots to finance to microcontrollers...None of which seems remotely close to what you people are discussing :s
20130526 22:10:15< fabi> LordBob_: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?t=31965
20130526 22:10:25< shadowm> fabi: And LordBon uses Mac OS X and doesn't need to compile or install anything. :)
20130526 22:10:31< fabi> LordBob_: http://shadowm.rewound.net/projects/wesnoth-rcx.php
20130526 22:10:32< shadowm> LordBob.
20130526 22:11:30< fabi> shadowm: Does it handle both, the green and the magenta palette?
20130526 22:11:52< shadowm> Any palette you can obtain from WML or make yourself with the GUI.
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20130526 22:12:34< shadowm> The magenta, green flag, and red ellipse palettes are also built-in options.
20130526 22:12:37< fabi> shadowm: I see. But I guess just staying with one of them is fine enough, isn't it? Or would you suggest to create a new one.
20130526 22:12:39< fabi> ?
20130526 22:13:04< shadowm> Depends on what you want to use team coloring for.
20130526 22:13:21< fabi> The icons that represent a soundsource and their range.
20130526 22:13:31< shadowm> As I said before, the green palette has a wider range of shades (exactly 255) than the magenta palette.
20130526 22:14:33< shadowm> So it's kind of an artistic decision. I.e. how many shades do you really need?
20130526 22:15:07< LordBob_> Then let's use the green palette. it's easier to restrain a wide range of shades than the opposite 
20130526 22:15:12< fabi> Not much I guess. LordBob_ how wide is your palette usually for the icon images?
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20130526 22:16:01< shadowm> The magenta palette has less shades and it suits the unit art style (which is evolving toward smaller and better controlled palettes) better than the green palette for this reason.
20130526 22:16:03< fabi> LordBob_: Fine, the tool should help you view the art in all sort of colors and what is more valuable, you can check easily if the color shift thing works like expected.
20130526 22:17:38< LordBob_> Heh, sweet. Changing usually isn't a problem, but being able to check the color shift is indeed help. As for icons, the tools icons don't use more than 10 shades, and probably 5 most of the time, but that's pure chance
20130526 22:17:57< LordBob_> s/help /helpful
20130526 22:18:59< fabi> shadowm, LordBob_: By the way, is anybody of you able to reproduce the assert lipkab reported earlier?
20130526 22:24:26< LordBob_> fabi: if the schedule button lipkab refers to is the "Time Schedule Menu" button, then nothing of the sort happens for me
20130526 22:26:15< irker045> wesnoth: fendrin wesnoth-old:master 8434e3 / src/widgets/scrollbar.cpp: Made the gui1 scrollbar make use of the pressed images. http://git.io/3wfvGQ
20130526 22:26:17< irker045> wesnoth: fendrin wesnoth-old:master c1cedb / src/widgets/scrollbar.cpp: gui1 scrollbar uses the new arrow icon overlays. http://git.io/J_t2oQ
20130526 22:26:19< irker045> wesnoth: fendrin wesnoth-old:master 3b86a0 / data/core/editor/music.cfg: Made use of lipkab's new full playlist. http://git.io/8cX3MA
20130526 22:26:39< fabi> anonymissimus, lipkab: ^ Thank you :-)
20130526 22:27:51< fabi> anonymissimus: Why do you prefer the track's filename or id over the title?
20130526 22:29:05< fabi> anonymissimus: Espreon told me that the best alternative to the title in the ogg meta tag would be a translatable wml attribute like "name=".
20130526 22:29:14< fabi> anonymissimus: I pretty much thought in the same direction.
20130526 22:32:09< lipkab> fabi: Here's your trace: http://pastebin.com/Xi9AqRNx
20130526 22:33:07< anonymissimus> fabi: for a wml author the title mean nothing; one needs to know the filename/id in order to know what to write into one's scenario code after deciding for some music
20130526 22:33:44< fabi> anonymissimus: Well, the editor is doing that for you. It writes the tags in a file.
20130526 22:33:46< anonymissimus> fabi: in this case the "only translatable things should be displayed" idiom is harmful
20130526 22:34:06< anonymissimus> after all, only wml authors upwards are going to use the editor
20130526 22:34:11< fabi> anonymissimus: But I agree, not everybody would like to use the file or cut and past from it.
20130526 22:35:08< anonymissimus> well, I don't want to use the editor to write the filenames for me, I only want an "ingame music player" to listen to the various musics and chose some of them (theri filenames)
20130526 22:35:56< anonymissimus> when the title says "Knolls of Doldesh" it doesn't tell me that I need to write knolls.ogg instead
20130526 22:36:20< fabi> anonymissimus: Yeah, I had that use case in mind. And I agree, you deserve to see the file name. Is it fine to over a dialog to query every information I can gather about a title?
20130526 22:37:21< anonymissimus> fabi: I was thinking about putting the filename in brackets behind the title or something, but if there's more data than that that's fine
20130526 22:38:00< fabi> anonymissimus: Is there more you expect form a ingame audio player? I mean, from your use case point of view.
20130526 22:38:08< fabi> from
20130526 22:39:23< fabi> Currently the thing only plays single tracks. I guess you want to play or even repeat the full playlist?
20130526 22:39:26< anonymissimus> fabi: I don't think so, I just don't want to install some audio player specifically for this; I usually have a DAW (digital audio work station) installed which is much more than a music player, but that one can't read .ogg
20130526 22:40:00< anonymissimus> but that is just me, I suspect most people have Foobar or something installed
20130526 22:40:21< anonymissimus> I think audacity can open .ogg
20130526 22:40:49< zookeeper> it can
20130526 22:41:02< fabi> There is a plugin for most players.
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20130526 22:41:27< fabi> It is quite free in all kind of ways and thus easy and save to implement.
20130526 22:42:23< anonymissimus> but audacity's gui pretty much sucks, controls are not placed intelligent, the level meter way too small, no vertical zoom etc etc
20130526 22:42:50< fabi> I like my Amarok pretty much.
20130526 22:43:18< fabi> But it is bound to having at least qt and also some kde libs installed.
20130526 22:43:31< fabi> But there is a nice fork for macosx.
20130526 22:43:39< fabi> It is called clementine iirc.
20130526 22:44:56< fabi> zookeeper, shadowm: You followed the discussion about the soundsource tool? Iirc shadowm was the first to propose it, you must have at least a rough idea about it.
20130526 22:45:46< zookeeper> no, i haven't been following
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20130526 22:50:37< fabi> zookeeper: The basic idea is to define [soundsource]s with the help of a new editor tool which draws them similar to terrain is drawn. Instead of a palette we choice from a list (similar to the current playlist) and represent them with icons for the source and some for the affected environment.
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20130526 22:53:57< fabi> zookeeper: Each of the sources might feature a different color to display overlapping ones more readable.
20130526 22:56:16< fabi> lipkab: Okay, I think that I handle translated attributes in a complete wrong way.
20130526 22:56:49< fabi> lipkab: You test with a different language enabled, right? ( I mean not the default English)
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20130526 22:58:39< lipkab> fabi: Hmm... no. I'm on English.
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20130526 22:59:10< fabi> hmmm
20130526 23:00:44< fabi> lipkab: I try a rebuild from a vanilla sourcecode. Maybe that triggers some translation related error.
20130526 23:04:59< fabi> lipkab: Your switch to debug build should have done that already.
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20130526 23:20:38< AI0867> anonymissimus: thanks
20130526 23:21:43< fabi> lipkab: Okay, still no luck with reproducing it. 
20130526 23:22:05< lipkab> :(
20130526 23:26:14< fabi> lipkab: Please test again after pulling the next commit.
20130526 23:27:22< irker045> wesnoth: fendrin wesnoth-old:master f39aa9 / src/time_of_day.cpp: Possibly fixed a bug with uninitialized translated wml attributes. http://git.io/LijaZA
20130526 23:27:28< fabi> lipkab: ^
20130526 23:28:11< fabi> lipkab: I must admit, I pretty sure don't know what I am doing here exactly. The t_string wrapper is still alien to me.
20130526 23:31:52< shadowm> You mean gettext wrappers? N_() aliases a function that returns a C string, not a t_string.
20130526 23:33:18< shadowm> Or actually it aliases a macro that returns whatever was passed to it.
20130526 23:33:26< shadowm> It's just a hint for the xgettext tool.
20130526 23:34:45< shadowm> At runtime it makes no difference (the string is not translated), but at .pot build time it is used to ask xgettext to treat it as a translatable string anyway.
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20130526 23:35:15< fabi> shadowm: Well, I guess the last commit wasn't complete nonsense, iiuyc, right?
20130526 23:35:32< shadowm> If you understand me correctly? I am not sure what you are doing there.
20130526 23:35:44< shadowm> Since as I said N_() doesn't translate anything.
20130526 23:36:20< fabi> Yes, it is just a a string that triggers the extractor to catch the string for translation at compile time.
20130526 23:36:22< shadowm> So that change effectively amounts to replacing "NULL_TOD" with "Stub Time of Day" (both C strings) and I don't know if that's what you meant to do.
20130526 23:36:37< fabi> Or better when Ivanovic does his black magic before the release.
20130526 23:37:41-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: current repo: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old (Please read the dev-ml for the latest status!) | http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeIdeas | 187 bugs, 332 feature requests, 30 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20130526 23:38:14< shadowm> Pretty sure I've seen Espreon run pot-update out of the release process before.
20130526 23:38:48< fabi> We should make Espreon make the next release manager if he knows that evil stuff.
20130526 23:39:47< shadowm> To my knowledge, the only evil part about running pot-update is that it is a very taxing operation I/O-wise.
20130526 23:40:24< shadowm> I wonder if I can run that myself now.
20130526 23:41:50< shadowm> Meh, requires a lot of stuff I don't want to download.
20130526 23:43:36< fabi> Well, lipkab's assert is a miracle. Maybe it is related to the fact that every translation seems no to work with me debug compile at all. I mean the game just stays with the English default.
20130526 23:44:19< shadowm> Debug vs. release shouldn't make a difference with translations.
20130526 23:47:41< AI0867> fabi: that commit isn't really going to do anything, other than create a spurious entry in the PO files
20130526 23:48:01< lipkab> fabi: Still no good :(
20130526 23:48:03< shadowm> That is what I said above.
20130526 23:48:07< AI0867> possibly not even that, as I don't see a textdomain anywhere
20130526 23:48:08< fabi> AI0867: Yeah, that was my conclusion as well. 
20130526 23:48:19< shadowm> AI0867: There's a default textdomain.
20130526 23:48:28< AI0867> but is it wesnoth?
20130526 23:48:28< shadowm> It's either wesnoth or wesnoth-lib, I don't remember which.
20130526 23:49:15< shadowm> fabi: My debug build can do translations.
20130526 23:49:19< fabi> AI0867: Can you reproduce lipkab's problem?
20130526 23:50:09< shadowm> LordBob_: :Did you consider any alternative scrollbar button glyph shapes?
20130526 23:50:25< AI0867> fabi: was that something with the ToD menu?
20130526 23:51:02< fabi> AI0867: Yes, just clicking it results in http://pastebin.com/Xi9AqRNx on lipkab's setup.
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20130526 23:51:45< AI0867> not here
20130526 23:51:58< fabi> hmmm
20130526 23:52:58< shadowm> Oh, you added a fb/bg terrain swap button.
20130526 23:53:15< fabi> shadowm: Yes, one of the minor changes.
20130526 23:53:44< LordBob_> shadowm: I did. The short_arrow* images in images/icons/arrows and fold-arrow* images in images/buttons could serve as alternate glyphs. do you think they're more intuitive than the current ones ?
20130526 23:53:46< fabi> shadowm: But it will not always be the swap button. Some palettes don't exactly feature a fg and bg terrain.
20130526 23:53:52< fabi> s/terrain/item
20130526 23:55:20< shadowm> LordBob_: Hm, no, the current ones are intuitive enough.
20130526 23:55:34< shadowm> It's just that they've always reminded me of Windows 3.x for some reason.
20130526 23:56:43< shadowm> The longer shapes seem like they could be used for the storyscreen back/forward buttons if they aren't already.
20130526 23:57:48< fabi> shadowm: Stable, installed from binary gives me language selection. The build just says: warning general: setlocale() failed for 'de_DE'.
20130526 23:58:08< fabi> but then: warning general: Setting LANGUAGE to 'de_DE'.
20130526 23:58:19< fabi> With no further result.
20130526 23:58:38< shadowm> fabi: Yes, it says the same thing here but it does work nevertheless.
20130526 23:59:17< shadowm> I don't install Wesnoth and I don't use Debian's build, so no reference point there.
20130526 23:59:19< fabi> Uh, that gives me headaches.
20130526 23:59:42< shadowm> Hm.
20130526 23:59:49< shadowm> GUI2 scrollbar buttons still use the old images.
--- Log closed Mon May 27 00:00:00 2013