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20130529 14:39:58< siddh> hello
20130529 14:40:14< lipkab> Hi siddh.
20130529 14:40:32< siddh> I've these 2 weaponspecials I think I've made some mistake with, could someone check them out if I post on pastebin? I could put it on wml workshop too but I don't think it's a big error and probably easy to spot if u know things :D
20130529 14:40:36< siddh> hat
20130529 14:40:42< siddh> what's up lip? :D
20130529 14:41:51< lipkab> Having another entertaining day in the library.
20130529 14:42:12< siddh> or actually hmm if a unit has for an example -10% leadership bonus, does it show up in the melee calculation as a blank * 0.9 line in addition to the -leadership%?
20130529 14:42:16< siddh> oh
20130529 14:43:42< siddh> hmm there must be some kind of error 
20130529 14:43:49< siddh> nevermind 
20130529 14:47:42< siddh> oh could it be that add=-10 instead of sub=10 causes the problem? :D
20130529 14:48:15< siddh> hmm probably not :o
20130529 14:51:54< siddh> hmm :D
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20130529 16:42:21< siddh> well if anyone is interested I posted somtehing on the WML workshop in the thread that was there on the subject already. The relevant comment would be the 3rd from the bottom: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=21&p=554157#p554157
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20130529 17:32:24< Necrosporus> I'm thinking about adding a faction of centaurs into wesnoth. I know how to draw and code the units, but I do not know how to balance them against existing factions
20130529 17:34:46< siddh> well you can do the following:
20130529 17:35:47< siddh> count unit hitpoints/gold ratio, and apply to that their resistances and defense average, and you can also count how much damage they do, and include it. Then you'll have some sort of "score" of how strong the unit is
20130529 17:37:01< siddh> in otherwords creating a baseline. If you want to make it easier, you can give the units 40 hitpoints, make them cost 15 gold ,and have an 6-3 attack. Then if you want to make some unit better against something, you can increase some resistance type, or increase defense in some terrain, or similar
20130529 17:39:26< siddh> the "balancing" part isn't that difficult, it's actually more difficult to come up with "themes" and dynamic. Like how does this faction fight? What kind of advantages can they use?
20130529 17:41:48< siddh> was this of any help? YOu might wanna ask someone who is more adept at this stuff if it feels like no clarity came :D
20130529 17:43:09< siddh> and here's another tip: if you think you've a unit that is somehow a bit too strong - but you dont think it's a problem in itself, you just wish the unit was more balanced.. Then instead of reducing it's strengths, you can ask yourself "how do I maintain this unit's strengths, but create an additional weakness?"
20130529 17:43:25< siddh> and tehn compare your alternatives:D
20130529 17:44:02< siddh> an example: I made this trait for undead in an era, which was called "hateful" and it gave the unit that got the trait +1 attack and -2 hps or something like that
20130529 17:44:19< siddh> I tried recruiting a couple of units, and realized it's too strong
20130529 17:44:29< siddh> so I added to the trait that it reduces -10 hp. 
20130529 17:44:36< siddh> but it came out as crude and unstylish
20130529 17:44:48< siddh> so I removed the trait. So soemtimes it doesnt work that way 
20130529 17:44:50< siddh> :D
20130529 17:49:12< zookeeper> the only way to balance factions is to playtest and playtest and playtest.
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20130529 17:50:35< siddh> yea but at that point it's already done
20130529 17:54:10< siddh> for an example I've not played a single game with the era im making, but I have a rough idea how it works, or at least, how it should work, so if it turns out some ability is a bit too strong or too weak, you can adjust it by a point or two, increase a cost, reduce a cost. but that's not so hard, compared to coming up with the dynamic of how it oughta work. well an opinion
20130529 17:54:11< siddh> :D
20130529 17:56:05< siddh> btw zookeeper you interested in checking out the era im making? :D
20130529 17:56:24< zookeeper> not really, sorry :p
20130529 17:57:17< siddh> np :o
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20130529 18:30:32< siddh> hmm anyway in the era Im making i created these weapon_special_melee and weapon_special_ranged. To which then I thought I can add all kinds of things, like for example I added that forests cause reduced fire resistance in ranged combat
20130529 18:30:47< siddh> I also wanted to add this ability which was discussed earlier called "iaido" to give units blade resistance in melee combat
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20130529 18:30:56< siddh> this works, i thought it worked properly, but apparently doesnt
20130529 18:31:09< siddh> I think the problem is that when every unit has the weapon_special_melee, it somehow gets bugged
20130529 18:31:30< siddh> so that even if the attacker doesnt have the iaido ability, the defender still gets a 0.9 multiplier for damage
20130529 18:31:38< siddh> as long as the defender has the iaido ability
20130529 18:31:48< siddh> I'm not sure if it's a filtering mistake (maybe I used them incorrectly)
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20130529 18:32:11< siddh> or if it's that both units have the weapon_special_melee which includes the  iaido [damage] ability 
20130529 18:32:16< siddh> any ideas? :D
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20130529 18:45:03< Necrosporus> zookeeper, do you think, playtest of two AI would be good enough?
20130529 18:45:13< zookeeper> no
20130529 18:46:49< Necrosporus> But even before playtest there must be a rough idea of how should the units be balanced... though I guess I can take stats of similar units from existing factions...
20130529 18:48:34< Necrosporus> for example if I'm making a centaur faction, it's logical to make them have movement type of horses... so maybe they must have some non-centaur units to match other factions?
20130529 18:49:12< celticminstrel> Fauns/satyrs, maybe? >_>
20130529 18:49:27< celticminstrel> ...not sure if that actually fits, though.
20130529 18:51:01< Necrosporus> http://www.yaplakal.com/pics/pics_preview/0/0/6/1939600.jpg ( translation: "Noone like reversed centaur" )
20130529 18:51:06< siddh> I don't know but it sounds pretty good combination :D
20130529 18:51:19< Necrosporus> Maybe
20130529 18:51:27< siddh> what the hell? :DD
20130529 18:51:35< Necrosporus> Though they still need a flying or water unit
20130529 18:52:17< siddh> I mean the picture :DD
20130529 18:53:02< Necrosporus> siddh, just a reversed centaur
20130529 18:53:10< celticminstrel> I guess the "good combination" comment was at me then?
20130529 18:53:24< siddh> yeah I thought that sounded good
20130529 18:55:16< Necrosporus> celticminstrel, doesn't sound very bad, but they also need a flying or water unit
20130529 18:55:22< siddh> "...with goat-like (caprine) features, including a goat-tail, goat-like ears, and sometimes a goat-like phallus." I'm sure the latter part is very relevant
20130529 18:55:34< Necrosporus> like gryphon, naga, meramaid or bat
20130529 18:55:38< siddh> from wikipedia about satyrs :D
20130529 18:56:13< Necrosporus> I do not think it would be visible on 86x86 pixelart
20130529 18:56:47< siddh> they'er 86x86? I've been making pictures thinking they're 72x72
20130529 18:56:53< celticminstrel> It doesn't need to be visible in any art. For example, Narnia.
20130529 18:56:57< Necrosporus> Ah
20130529 18:57:02< Necrosporus> even smaller
20130529 18:57:05< siddh> "pictures" if you call an empty icon with "bat" written on it a picture. 
20130529 18:57:05< siddh> :D
20130529 18:57:08< celticminstrel> 72x72 sounds right, but you can make larger ones.
20130529 18:57:21< celticminstrel> Why don't you just use the bat icon then? :P
20130529 18:57:51< siddh> most of the units wont get a picture from default, I thought it would be akward, so I'm making them without pics like that first
20130529 18:58:21< celticminstrel> You could add a winged centaur...
20130529 18:58:38< celticminstrel> The horse parts are essentially Pegasus.
20130529 18:58:42< siddh> Pegataur
20130529 18:58:46< celticminstrel> Heh.
20130529 18:58:47< siddh> :DD
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20130529 19:00:29< celticminstrel> There's another word for winged horse that I'm trying to remember...
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20130529 19:00:59< Necrosporus> alicorn?
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20130529 19:01:24< celticminstrel> No, that's a winged horse with a horn.
20130529 19:01:25< celticminstrel> .
20130529 19:01:29< celticminstrel> Apparently.
20130529 19:01:51< celticminstrel> Except when it's not.
20130529 19:02:28< celticminstrel> pterippus
20130529 19:02:59< celticminstrel> I guess it's not very useful for blending with centaur.
20130529 19:03:13< celticminstrel> Pegataur is better.
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20130529 21:32:20< siddh> Boing
20130529 21:32:20< siddh> :D
20130529 21:40:17< Hulavuta1> That was fast
20130529 21:40:17< wesbot> Hulavuta1: Sometimes we are fast
20130529 21:40:32< siddh> :D
20130529 21:40:51< Hulavuta1> who are you
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--- Log closed Thu May 30 00:00:09 2013