--- Log opened Mon Jun 10 00:00:41 2013
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20130610 00:10:10< irker547> wesnoth: Richard Kettering wesnoth-old:master c1065b / data/core/ (9 files in 3 dirs): New image for the skeletal dragon. http://git.io/E9a6vA
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20130610 00:21:03< H-Hour> regarding the addon ranking discussion and a like/dislike system: has anyone considered whether this would discourage authors from putting up work in progress?
20130610 00:21:36< H-Hour> i'm not sure that's necessarily a bad thing, but it does seem very different from current norms
20130610 00:25:29< zookeeper> well maybe WIP add-ons would be exempt from the rating system, and/or somehow clearly separated from the rest
20130610 00:27:55< jamit> Just a flag indicating which add-ons are works in progress might accomplish much of what a rating system seeks to accomplish.
20130610 00:30:53< zookeeper> well currently you're supposed to see that by looking whether the version number < 1.0, but that's pretty ackward. and i bet a lot of people number their add-ons all wrong.
20130610 00:31:23< _8680_> Which is technically a violation of the add-ons servers’ rules.
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20130610 00:34:11< H-Hour> i was mostly thinking about the problem of legacy ratings. if an add-on gets low ratings while it's being developed and that effects overall rating even after it is finished. but i agree with jamit that marking clearly which addons are not finished (such as by excluding them from ranking) would probably go a long way towards weeding out bad addons
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20130610 00:37:55< _8680_> What about halving the weight of an add-on’s average rating when it is updated? For example: Some Add-On v0.1 is uploaded, and gains an average rating of 2 of 5 stars (or whatever), aggregated from 20 individual ratings; it’s aggregate rating is 2 with a wieght of 20. Then version 0.2 is uploaded, and 20 people rate it at an average of 3; its aggregate rating is now ~2.7 with weight 30. Then version 0.3 is uploaded, and 40 people
20130610 00:38:23< _8680_> I think I calculated that wrong.
20130610 00:39:14< flix> mattsc: Is there something like a wml-validator which I could run over all those scenario cfgs from pl_koleks second patch?
20130610 00:39:25< _8680_> Version 0.3 would have an aggregate rating of ~3.6 with weight 55.
20130610 00:40:50< irker547> wesnoth: JaMiT wesnoth-old:master 3cbdf6 / src/unit_abilities.cpp: Convert a static function to an anonymous namespace. http://git.io/TkCNqg
20130610 00:40:52< irker547> wesnoth: JaMiT wesnoth-old:master 0952df / / (3 files in 3 dirs): Fix to unit abilities sometimes matching too often. http://git.io/PlYfMg
20130610 00:40:55< _8680_> (This proposal is not to be taken as a show of support for a rating system. This aside is not to be taken as a show of opposal to a rating system.)
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20130610 00:41:11< travis-ci> [travis-ci] wesnoth/wesnoth-old#3 (master - c1065bc : Richard Kettering): The build passed.
20130610 00:41:11< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/compare/9d1dfe063858...c1065bcbca6e
20130610 00:41:11< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/builds/7934857
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20130610 00:42:17< _8680_> ^4s/it’s aggregate/its aggregate/
20130610 00:44:48< mattsc> flix: wmllint and wmlindent
20130610 01:00:58< shadowm> Neither catches everything, though.
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20130610 01:05:46< travis-ci> [travis-ci] wesnoth/wesnoth-old#4 (master - 0952dfb : JaMiT): The build passed.
20130610 01:05:46< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/compare/c1065bcbca6e...0952dfb180e0
20130610 01:05:46< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/builds/7935333
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20130610 04:34:43< irker547> wesnoth: Richard Kettering wesnoth-old:master dbd2ad / data/core/ (7 files in 3 dirs): New base image for the paladin. http://git.io/7riq8Q
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20130610 04:35:17< vultraz> ok I;m back
20130610 04:35:34< vultraz> shadowm: is there still stuff I have to fix?
20130610 04:38:06< vultraz> lemme go look for any remaining lite usage...
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20130610 04:56:17< irker547> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth-old:master a80191 / src/widgets/button.cpp: Corrected default path for TURBO GUI1 button (lite -> menu_button_copper_H20) http://git.io/S4IR2Q
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20130610 04:58:04< travis-ci> [travis-ci] wesnoth/wesnoth-old#5 (master - dbd2adf : Richard Kettering): The build passed.
20130610 04:58:04< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/compare/0952dfb180e0...dbd2adf66a61
20130610 04:58:04< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/builds/7938150
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20130610 05:08:28< irker547> wesnoth: Richard Kettering wesnoth-old:master 444549 / data/core/ (18 files in 5 dirs): New base frames for the knight, lancer, and grand-knight. http://git.io/wu6iXA
20130610 05:08:46< vultraz> dayum, sprite quality going uppp
20130610 05:08:56< Jetrel_new> vultraz:  /me salutes
20130610 05:09:30< Jetrel_new> vultraz:  I'm informally going to try and make sunday a "wesnoth day" for me, for the near future.  Should get a lot more done, that way.
20130610 05:10:10< Jetrel_new> Within today I'm hoping to polish off the rest of the cavalry units - the elven cavalry, and the cavalryman line.
20130610 05:10:42< Jetrel_new> Of course this is without animations, but we're helped by their current animations being worthless.
20130610 05:11:15< Jetrel_new> Ergo it's safe to just delete them wholesale.
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20130610 05:11:38< Jetrel_new> And damn do I like having git, finally - otherwise these operations on large number of images would be a colossal PITA.
20130610 05:11:47< Jetrel_new> s/numbers
20130610 05:11:56< vultraz> may we expect new elves, soon? :D
20130610 05:12:12< Jetrel_new> vultraz:  not sure.
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20130610 05:12:33< Jetrel_new> I mean, you'll certainly be getting their rider units tonight.
20130610 05:12:45< Jetrel_new> But I don't quite know what I'm going to do after that...
20130610 05:13:16< Jetrel_new> It's a tossup between animating horse units, and doing elves.
20130610 05:13:49< Jetrel_new> I might iron out the rest of the elf bases first, who knows.
20130610 05:14:13< vultraz> The Slyph line is one I'm most anxious to see, as well as the new female archer (love that sprite)
20130610 05:14:18< Jetrel_new> The elves are a harder sell for liberally removing animations.
20130610 05:16:39< vultraz> What with the new terrains in 1.9, and the portrait and sprite updates since then, and the UI revamp and and lordbob have been working on here in 1.11, the general art quality of wesnoth is going through the roof
20130610 05:16:42< shadowm> Why not commission animations so they are done before 1.12?
20130610 05:16:52< shadowm> At least the Knight and Lancer, since they are L2.
20130610 05:16:55< Jetrel_new> shadowm:  short on funds atm, as I understand it.
20130610 05:17:59< Jetrel_new> I've been given a temporary hold put on commissions from the people holding the purse strings.
20130610 05:18:28< shadowm> OK funny the people in charge haven't really put more pressure on the system admins to get rid of asheviere.
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20130610 05:20:07< travis-ci> [travis-ci] wesnoth/wesnoth-old#6 (master - a801915 : Charles Dang): The build passed.
20130610 05:20:07< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/compare/dbd2adf66a61...a80191578411
20130610 05:20:07< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/builds/7938373
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20130610 05:21:34< Jetrel_new> shadowm:  is asheviere a code-name for something, or is that a joke, or ?
20130610 05:21:53< shadowm> Live wesnoth.org is asheviere.wesnoth.org.
20130610 05:22:07< shadowm> I thought you knew this.
20130610 05:22:10< Jetrel_new> Live..?
20130610 05:22:19< shadowm> As in the production server instead of the new one.
20130610 05:22:44< Jetrel_new> I'm confused.
20130610 05:22:58< shadowm> Aren't we paying for two servers atm?
20130610 05:23:02< Jetrel_new> We have two servers - one we're actually using, and a new one meant to replace it which we aren't using yet?
20130610 05:23:24< shadowm> ... Probably. I don't know. I'm not sure now if I am actually supposed to be talking about this.
20130610 05:23:32< shadowm> Here, at least.
20130610 05:23:45< shadowm> And being me. Pretend I didn't say a single word.
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20130610 05:32:28< travis-ci> [travis-ci] wesnoth/wesnoth-old#7 (master - 444549d : Richard Kettering): The build passed.
20130610 05:32:28< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/compare/a80191578411...444549dc3442
20130610 05:32:28< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/builds/7938469
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20130610 05:37:41-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: current repo: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old (Please read the dev-ml for the latest status!) | http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeIdeas | 195 bugs, 333 feature requests, 27 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20130610 06:43:42< irker547> wesnoth: Richard Kettering wesnoth-old:master b11612 / data/core/ (161 files in 3 dirs): Moved all the horseman images to their own folder. http://git.io/CtI6jw
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20130610 07:08:25< travis-ci> [travis-ci] wesnoth/wesnoth-old#8 (master - b11612c : Richard Kettering): The build passed.
20130610 07:08:25< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/compare/444549dc3442...b11612cce9c1
20130610 07:08:25< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/builds/7939667
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20130610 07:23:07< irker547> wesnoth: Richard Kettering wesnoth-old:master 85b15a / data/core/ (46 files in 5 dirs): New base frames for the cavalryman line. http://git.io/N3V56A
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20130610 07:48:39< travis-ci> [travis-ci] wesnoth/wesnoth-old#9 (master - 85b15a2 : Richard Kettering): The build passed.
20130610 07:48:39< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/compare/b11612cce9c1...85b15a2c5274
20130610 07:48:39< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/builds/7940178
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20130610 08:03:43< irker547> wesnoth: Richard Kettering wesnoth-old:master e458f4 / data/core/ (70 files in 5 dirs): New base frames for the elven cavalry units. http://git.io/vGbBSQ
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20130610 08:15:07< LordBob_> fabi_: ping ?
20130610 08:15:38< vultraz_laptop> hullo LordBob_ 
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20130610 08:15:53< LordBob_> hi vultraz_laptop 
20130610 08:16:03< vultraz_laptop> LordBob_: I found and fixed the reference to the lite button
20130610 08:16:20< vultraz_laptop> well, a reference
20130610 08:16:22< LordBob_> Ah, that's good. I was about to ask
20130610 08:16:28< vultraz_laptop> not sure if it was the one causing problems
20130610 08:18:37< LordBob_> vultraz_laptop: it apparently has to do with a custom-made theme refering to old artwork.
20130610 08:20:17< LordBob_> vultraz_laptop: if I understood correctly, shadowm and fabi discussed a method that would prevent the game from shutting down when it's trying to download missing artwork.
20130610 08:20:56< vultraz_laptop> LordBob_: it's weird, because for me, the game doesn't die when finding missing art
20130610 08:21:01< LordBob_> Which imho is a good thing, because such situations might occur with any number of UMCs that customize the UI / make use of its artwork
20130610 08:21:07< vultraz_laptop> it just shows an "image not found" error
20130610 08:21:57< LordBob_> The details of this are beyond my understanding, really, and maybe how I word it does not describe the situation accurately
20130610 08:22:19< LordBob_> But I did have these shutdowns when some icons artwork was missing
20130610 08:22:28< vultraz_laptop> huh..
20130610 08:22:30< vultraz_laptop> weird
20130610 08:22:54< LordBob_> vultraz_laptop: shadowm and fabi will know how to explain it a lot better, I'm sure
20130610 08:23:54< LordBob_> vultraz_laptop: in other news, I think I've found the correct math to do for the grayscale function, and it's a LOT simpler than it had first seemed
20130610 08:24:21< vultraz_laptop> oh?
20130610 08:24:23< vultraz_laptop> what is it
20130610 08:25:01< LordBob_> I would like to test it ingame just to make sure, but I tried a few sample values and it was pretty accurate
20130610 08:26:11< LordBob_> Apparently, the desaturate method that I used in photoshop is equivalent to RBG -> HSL conversion
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20130610 08:26:55< travis-ci> [travis-ci] wesnoth/wesnoth-old#10 (master - e458f40 : Richard Kettering): The build passed.
20130610 08:26:55< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/compare/85b15a2c5274...e458f4065846
20130610 08:26:55< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/builds/7940662
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20130610 08:26:58< LordBob_> Except that you only need to calculate the "L" factor and apply it as the new RGB values
20130610 08:28:28< vultraz_laptop> alright, how do you do so
20130610 08:28:58< vultraz_laptop> I guess we can just wire this right into the GS function
20130610 08:30:55< LordBob_> vultraz_laptop: it all boils down to grayscale(r,g,b)= (max(r,g,b)+min(r,g,b))/2
20130610 08:31:10< LordBob_> with r,g,b in 0...255
20130610 08:31:41< LordBob_> The result must be an integer in 0...255
20130610 08:32:05< LordBob_> However, I don't think we should just replace the existing GS function, except for tests
20130610 08:32:35< LordBob_> In the same way it is inconvenient to us, the new method might not suit the purpose of other users anymore
20130610 08:34:29< LordBob_> vultraz_laptop: Instead, shadowm suggested yesterday a way of implementing the alternate method as a configurable use of the GS function (I think). It's in the log
20130610 08:36:37< LordBob_> vultraz_laptop: still, it would be a good idea to quickly translate this math into the appropriate code, replace the GS function with it and test locally. If we're content with the result, then it can be fully implemented
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20130610 08:49:49< fabi_> LordBob_: pong
20130610 08:51:23< LordBob_> fabi: hello. See the above: I looked up the grayscale math, and it might be a lot simpler than I had thought.
20130610 08:52:07< LordBob_> fabi_: I would just like to try and test the formula on my home build, to be certain
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20130610 08:52:48< LordBob_> and now, I will be gone for an hour or so.
20130610 08:56:01< vultraz_laptop> hm...
20130610 08:56:12< vultraz_laptop> now how to translate that formula into the code
20130610 08:59:55< vultraz_laptop> I really have no idea how this code works
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20130610 09:02:51< vultraz_laptop> shadowm: maybe you could help?
20130610 09:02:54< _8680_> vultraz_laptop: Please pastebin this purportedly perplexing procedure.
20130610 09:03:21< _8680_> (A procedure being a function.)
20130610 09:04:22< vultraz_laptop> _8680_: http://pastebin.com/T9JXCGZC
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20130610 09:07:46< _8680_> vultraz_laptop: The current formula weights each channel (red is given weight 77 of 255, green 150, and blue 29) to account for the human eye perceiving those colors with biases as to their brightness.
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20130610 09:11:36< _8680_> Human vision will see green that’s actually as bright as 50%-brightness gray as having ~90%(?) brightness, so this formula distorts the actual average brightness of the channels. (“brightness” here may or may not be a technical term.)
20130610 09:13:28< vultraz_laptop> _8680_: alright, but how do we apply LordBob_'s formula
20130610 09:16:10< fabi_> vultraz_laptop: 
20130610 09:16:11< fabi_> const Uint8 avg = (std::max(r, std::max(g, b))
20130610 09:16:13< fabi_> 					+ std::min(r, std::min(g, b))) / 2;
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20130610 09:24:44< shadowm_desktop> 02:20:57 <vultraz_laptop> LordBob_: it's weird, because for me, the game doesn't die when finding missing art
20130610 09:25:16< shadowm_desktop> --debug causes _all_ image::get_image() calls to succeed by returning a placeholder.
20130610 09:25:45< shadowm_desktop> That's also the case after using :debug to enable debug mode in-game.
20130610 09:35:44< vultraz> ahhh
20130610 09:35:58< vultraz> is -d the same thing?
20130610 09:36:01< vultraz> (I assume so)
20130610 09:40:55< vultraz> anyway, building
20130610 09:42:37< LordBob_> ok, I'm officially confuzzled
20130610 09:43:06< vultraz> LordBob_: turn on debug mode, and wesnoth won't crash when finding missing art
20130610 09:43:32< LordBob_> vultraz: not this. I've tried the code fabi_  provided on my home build, and ...nothing
20130610 09:43:48< LordBob_> vultraz: the images don't look any different
20130610 09:44:03< fabi_> LordBob_: It worked for me, but right, the image does not look different.
20130610 09:45:31< fabi_> LordBob_: I guess photoshop is doing something different.
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20130610 09:52:54< LordBob_> fabi_: it's something else, maybe a matter of how color profiles are handled, or the IPF does sadditional operations we're not aware of
20130610 09:53:35< LordBob_> fabi_: I've done the math with both formulas, and for a given pixel of the button both return a grayscale value of approximately 21 
20130610 09:53:44< LordBob_> (rgb= (21,21,21)
20130610 09:54:30< LordBob_> fabi_: grayscaling the picture in photoshop gives the same result, and the "disabled" image had that same value
20130610 09:55:05< LordBob_> fabi_: however, when I launch the game, make a screen shot and sample it with photoshop, the actual rgb value for this pixel is (48,48,48) 
20130610 09:56:35< LordBob_> in other words, *something* happens that makes the IPF-modified button look brighter than it should be
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20130610 09:59:29< LordBob_> fabi_ The next test I would like to locally revert vultraz's IPF commit and check the screen shot again, but I do not know how to do that
20130610 10:00:02< LordBob_> ie revert locally to a previous state in history
20130610 10:01:27< fabi_> LordBob_: The editor buttons are gui1 ones. 
20130610 10:02:01< fabi_> LordBob_: The IPF commit of vultraz should have affected gui2 only.
20130610 10:02:58< fabi_> LordBob_: I guess vultraz just removed the disabled images which causes the gui1 buttons to fallback to the grayscale method.
20130610 10:03:58< LordBob_> Hm ? By grayscale method, you mean the IPF ~GS() function, or something else ? 
20130610 10:06:12< fabi_> LordBob_: I guess IPF means image path function. ~GS() would be one of them. But I don't know what vultraz did there exactly.
20130610 10:09:42< LordBob_> fabi_: what he did, AFAICT, is replace references to the "-disabled" state images with an image rendered by applying the ~GS() function (the image path function for grayscale) to the "normal" variant.
20130610 10:10:47< LordBob_> how exactly he did this, and what side effects this might have, I cannot tel
20130610 10:10:56< LordBob_> *tell
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20130610 10:13:37< LordBob_> fabi_: so, when you say that the GUI1 buttons fallback to the grayscale method, is it the same image path function we mentionned above, or is it a different one ?
20130610 10:17:44< LordBob_> fabi_: because indeed, I've checked disabled scrolling buttons on the 'language' (GUI2, I think) and 'preferences dialog (GUI1, I guess) dialogs, and the difference is there
20130610 10:21:18< vultraz> LordBob_, fabi_: I applied ~GS() to both gui1 and gui2 buttons
20130610 10:22:06< vultraz> LordBob_: if you want a screenshot, I give you one from 1.11.4
20130610 10:22:17< vultraz> which uses the disabled images
20130610 10:23:36< fabi_> vultraz: I don't get that. The gui1 buttons already did use the greyscale function in case there is no disabled version since ages. 
20130610 10:24:23< fabi_> LordBob_: It is the same greyscale function.
20130610 10:25:43< LordBob_> fabi_, vultraz : then , how come the same function gives different results in the two GUI systems ? ôo
20130610 10:32:45< fabi_> Okay, what vultraz did to the gui1 button is a bit awkward but it disables the loading of the disabled image and uses the image path function ~GS() in all cases. I do not know if that change is useful, in some cases you might want disabled images to be used. 
20130610 10:35:24< fabi_> vultraz: line 100 of button.cpp checks for a file being present in the filesystem, that is named ~GS() at the end, this will always fail. And it does not make much sense here since we already load the same image before, thus should the file not be here the code would through an image load exception earlier (the one shadowmaster wants to not lead to wesnoth crash)
20130610 10:36:25< fabi_> LordBob_: I guess one of the systems is still using disabled images in some cases.
20130610 10:37:33< fabi_> vultraz: Then later when the code recognizes that the loading of the disabled image failed it applies the greyscale function directly, without the way over the image path function.
20130610 10:39:37< LordBob_> fabi_: this should normally not be possible, since all disabled images have been moved to the attic
20130610 10:42:38< fabi_> LordBob_: Then the reason is that ~GS() does not really use the pure grayscale function like shadowm suggested.
20130610 10:44:52< LordBob_> fabi: in the button.cpp you link to, could it be that the greyscale function it defaults to is a different one ?
20130610 10:44:59< fabi_> LordBob_: Okay, I found it. 
20130610 10:45:14< LordBob_> :D
20130610 10:46:13 * LordBob_ does a victory dance
20130610 10:46:53< shadowm_desktop> fabi_: ~GS() does use greyscale_surface()
20130610 10:47:24< shadowm_desktop> I mean greyscale_image(). See image_modifications.cpp:200
20130610 10:48:15< fabi_> LordBob_, shadowm_desktop: And the gui1 button uses: blend_surface(greyscale_image(button_image), disabled_btn_adjust, disabled_btn_color);
20130610 10:49:18< shadowm_desktop> Right.
20130610 10:49:28< LordBob_> so it does apply further modifications beyond the grayscaling
20130610 10:49:45< LordBob_> deos it ?
20130610 10:49:48< LordBob_> *does
20130610 10:50:02< fabi_> yepp
20130610 10:51:09< LordBob_> Wew, I'm really thankful you've found this one. The whole problem was puzzling me to no end
20130610 10:53:20< fabi_> LordBob_: Okay, a quick hacky fix gives me the same behavior for both gui systems.
20130610 10:54:48< fabi_> LordBob_: Seems like the new greyscale code you provided works.
20130610 10:55:07< LordBob_> fabi_: that's good news. What adjustments did those "disabled_btn_" functions perform, actually ? I mean, can we just ditch them, or might there still be some other situation where they are required ? 
20130610 10:55:37< fabi_> LordBob_: I think it shifted the disabled button down a bit to give a pressed impression.
20130610 10:56:02< fabi_> LordBob_: They are no functions but variables.
20130610 10:56:16< LordBob_> fabi_: ok, I'll call them variables from now on
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20130610 10:57:16< fabi_> LordBob_: both are constant variables. disabled_btn_adjust = 0.18
20130610 10:57:24< fabi_> disabled_btn_color = 0xAAAAAA
20130610 10:57:34< LordBob_> fabi_: the greyscale code might work, but now that we've found about these extra variables, maybe it will turn out that the difference in greyscale conversion is minimal, and was mostly caused by the variables
20130610 10:57:47< fabi_> indeed
20130610 10:59:20< LordBob_> fabi_: so, the blend_surface is another image modification function, which applies a shade of gray to the already-grayed image, hence the difference we were seeing, right ?
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20130610 11:01:15< fabi_> LordBob_: Yes, I assume so as well.
20130610 11:01:42< LordBob_> fabi_: in which case, *if* it only affects GUI1 buttons which we already revamped anyway, I propose that we get rid of it
20130610 11:02:16< fabi_> LordBob_: Yes, best we use the ~GS() IPF just everywhere.
20130610 11:03:13< LordBob_> fabi_: I would also be in favor of adjusting Vultraz's code so that both GUI systems do use a specific "-disabled" state image should we ever feel the need to create one
20130610 11:04:07< LordBob_> But all in all, this is a relief
20130610 11:04:09< fabi_> LordBob_: Hmm, I fear that this is not possible easily. The definition of gui2 images is done in WML files and those do not allow a fallback.
20130610 11:04:53< fabi_> LordBob_: Every gui2 widget has a corresponding wml file (and the windows and dialogs as well)
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20130610 11:05:53< fabi_> LordBob_: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/blob/master/data/gui/default/widget/button_25x25.cfg
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20130610 11:07:18< fabi_> LordBob_: Do you get the syntax?
20130610 11:07:21< LordBob_> Oh. Well, can these exceptions be handled on a button-by-button basis ? If, for instance, someone defines a new kind of control for which the "greyscale" is not satisfying and they want to use a specific image for this particular control, will it still be possible ?
20130610 11:07:53< LordBob_> I'm trying to
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20130610 11:10:20< fabi_> LordBob_: Ah, no. The {IMAGE} macro argument is used everywhere. Thus it is not possible to define buttons which do use a dedicated disabled image instead of the ~GS() system yet.
20130610 11:10:28< fabi_> LordBob_: But that can be changed.
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20130610 11:12:59< fabi_> hi H-Hour
20130610 11:13:13< H-Hour> hi fabi_ 
20130610 11:13:16< fabi_> H-Hour: You had some questions about the rating system.
20130610 11:13:48< H-Hour> i was just raising the issue of how it might effect works-in-progress
20130610 11:14:23< fabi_> LordBob_: Here you can learn how the WML macros work: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/PreprocessorRef
20130610 11:14:28< LordBob_> fabi_:  it's ok, we don not need to change it right now. I'm just content to know that a workaround is possible should the need arise
20130610 11:15:07< fabi_> H-Hour: I have a work in progress addon on the 1.10 server, called Wings of Victory, on which I used to work with esr on.
20130610 11:16:08< LordBob_> fabi_: so let's clean up what  needs to be , use ~GS() everywhere, and the 'disabled' situation will be back to normal :)
20130610 11:16:25< fabi_> H-Hour: The feedback from the users was mostly positive thus I assume that users rate the "promising factor" if you clearly tell them that it is not finished (which we did by calling it the 0.04alpha version).
20130610 11:17:29< fabi_> LordBob_: Okay, I will take care about it.
20130610 11:17:46< LordBob_> A huge thanks :)
20130610 11:18:34< fabi_> H-Hour: Still, a bad rating for a work in progress addon is exactly what we want. The new user should not download an unfinished campaign accidentely because it has a high rating. 
20130610 11:18:38< H-Hour> fabi_, sure. the rating system isn't for forum users, though, who likely know some background about the addons they play. i've got no problem with it. i was just raising the issue.
20130610 11:19:30< H-Hour> fabi_, i agree about bad ratings for works-in-progress. i was more concerned about the legacy issue. if ieach 1.0 with a bad rating, how do i overcome that legacy?
20130610 11:19:46< H-Hour> ieach = i reach
20130610 11:20:46< fabi_> H-Hour: Well, you remove your addon from the server. Then you upload it again. It will start with a fresh rating.
20130610 11:21:28< H-Hour> fabi_, yeah that seems like it will be a common approach.
20130610 11:22:10< fabi_> Of course someone could abuse that to get rid of bad ratings. But I doubt he will ever get a good rating with a bad addon.
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20130610 11:25:45< LordBob_> fabi_: on a different subject, I've had a word with Jetrel about the mudcrawlers sprites and he agrees that  while the size rule is fine for humanoids, we shouldn't let it bother us for monster sprites. I will therefore finish the mudcrawler in its current size so that we can get rid of the old sprite, and maybe at a later date produce an intermediate sprite, but with a low priority.
20130610 11:26:13< fabi_> LordBob_: Ah yes. That sounds reasonable.
20130610 11:26:45< vultraz> LordBob_, fabi_: what seems to be the problem with what I did to the buttons?
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20130610 11:27:56< vultraz> LordBob_: I thought the whole point was to never use -disabled images
20130610 11:28:19< fabi_> vultraz: Please read the logs, I tried to explain it already. Basicaly you use a function that checks the existance of a file with the ~GS() ending. This always fails. Thus we fall back to the internal greyscale conversion which does not match the ~GS() function.
20130610 11:28:52< vultraz> I see....
20130610 11:29:11< fabi_> vultraz: That is in widgets/button.cpp line 100.
20130610 11:29:19< vultraz> so I just need to adjust that, and LordBob_'s formula will work?
20130610 11:29:36< LordBob_> vultraz: not exactly "never". "not use a disabled image where the exact same image can be obtained with "~GS()" is how I had meant it
20130610 11:29:42< vultraz> (I assume that means it already worked for gui2?)
20130610 11:29:51< fabi_> yes
20130610 11:29:57< lipkab> It... has... started... http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=38946#p555028
20130610 11:30:04< vultraz> LordBob_: not possible, I don't think
20130610 11:30:55< vultraz> lipkab: lmao
20130610 11:31:08< vultraz> lipkab: dugi really can't take a bad review, can he
20130610 11:32:34< LordBob_> vultraz: that's what we discussed with fabi_. He says than some sort of exception mechanism can be coded should the need ever arise, and I'm fine with just that 
20130610 11:32:34< fabi_> vultraz: Where can I see the bad review?
20130610 11:32:58< lipkab> fabi_: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Guide_to_UMC_Campaigns/Players_Reviews#Review_by_bumbadadabum
20130610 11:33:50< vultraz_laptop> fabi_: so, I just need to remove the ~GS() fit from buttons.cpp line 100?
20130610 11:33:54< vultraz_laptop> s/fit/bit
20130610 11:34:04< LordBob_> vultraz:  so we stick to the current ~GS() function. Since the largest difference was caused by something entirely different, there's no need to change the grayscale function anymore.
20130610 11:34:25< vultraz_laptop> LordBob_: ah, I see
20130610 11:34:45< vultraz_laptop> LordBob_: so I can revert the change you formula did locally?
20130610 11:35:18< LordBob_> ... If I properly read that sentence, the answer is yes
20130610 11:35:33< vultraz_laptop> er
20130610 11:35:44< vultraz_laptop> yeah
20130610 11:36:02< vultraz_laptop> fabi_: hm...should we keep the disabled image check for the GUI1 button?
20130610 11:36:21< vultraz_laptop> since we're using ~GS now, I don't think there's need for it
20130610 11:37:39< fabi_> vultraz_laptop: Well, it depends. The gui2 way of using disabled images instead of ~GS() would be to define it in the WML.cfg file of the widget in question while the gui1 way would be to just have the disabled image on the disk.
20130610 11:38:26< fabi_> vultraz_laptop: If we do not want to feature to have disabled images instead of GS then the check is obsolete.
20130610 11:38:55< vultraz_laptop> well, it seems obsolete, since we've gotten rid of all disabled images
20130610 11:39:36< LordBob_> vultraz_laptop: that's precisely what we're discussing. Just because we've gotten rid of them doesn't mean the need won't ever exist.
20130610 11:39:57< vultraz_laptop> I don't think it will
20130610 11:40:11< LordBob_> vultraz_laptop:  imagine you make a button with an shape or pattern that needs to be different when it's disabled
20130610 11:40:24< LordBob_> Because, maybe, the button is grey right from the start
20130610 11:41:07< vultraz_laptop> Don't think that would happen
20130610 11:41:13< vultraz_laptop> all buttons are colored when active
20130610 11:41:28< LordBob_> no. all buttons *we* made are colored when active.
20130610 11:41:54< LordBob_> the old GUI buttons were grey, and who knows what other users will want to make
20130610 11:41:54< fabi_> vultraz_laptop, lipkab: I think if duggi wants a review system he has to life with bad ones, no matter if they are inspired by personal loath. 
20130610 11:42:31< vultraz_laptop> LordBob_: but they still did not have a different shape/pattern, then
20130610 11:42:44< vultraz_laptop> I vote for removing the check, and restoring it sound the need ever arise
20130610 11:43:10< LordBob_> vultraz_laptop: the GUI1 way of things that fabi_ described is fine as is. It doesn't eat bread to let it be
20130610 11:43:23< vultraz_laptop> ?
20130610 11:43:31< LordBob_> Doesn't cost anything
20130610 11:44:11< fabi_> LordBob_: And if we get out of bread we can still rely on cake :-)
20130610 11:44:26< vultraz_laptop> SO what am I supposed to do here
20130610 11:45:06< LordBob_> vultraz_laptop: if the current code already allows to simply use an image when one is made available, use ~GS() if not, then it is perfectly fine
20130610 11:45:51< vultraz_laptop> eh...
20130610 11:45:54< vultraz_laptop> I can make it do that
20130610 11:46:16< vultraz_laptop> currently it uses the blend_surface thing that's causing the problem if an image is not found
20130610 11:46:34< fabi_> Damn, no one understood the joke I made about Marie Antoinette.
20130610 11:46:54< LordBob_> fabi_: oh, cake. That's how it translated into english ?
20130610 11:47:18< vultraz_laptop> The code can be simplified if the check is removed, just saying 
20130610 11:47:31< LordBob_> fabi_: the saying in frecnh goes with" brioche"
20130610 11:47:42< vultraz_laptop> fabi_: what is your opinion?
20130610 11:48:37< lipkab> fabi_: I think too. The real question is how far will these fights escalate in the future.
20130610 11:49:11< vultraz_laptop> fabi_: should we allow -disabled images to be loaded if present, and if not use ~GS, or just outright use ~GS and be consistent with GUI2
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20130610 11:51:03< vultraz_laptop> blagh, I'm just going to remove it
20130610 11:51:29< LordBob_> vultraz_laptop: No
20130610 11:52:03< LordBob_> vultraz_laptop: If anything, I'd rather you updated GUI2 to bring it up to the same standard
20130610 11:52:04< fabi_> LordBob_: Ah, in German it is just "Kuchen" which translates to "Cake".
20130610 11:52:39< LordBob_> vultraz_laptop: when one of your children lost a leg, you don't cut one off to the second child just for consistency's sake
20130610 11:52:54< vultraz_laptop> LordBob_: I have no idea how GUI2 works, that's mordante's territory, and I'm willing to bet he removed the feature for a reason
20130610 11:53:46< fabi_> vultraz_laptop: It can be done with WML only for GUI2.
20130610 11:54:15< vultraz_laptop> fabi_: well, yes, but I meant internally
20130610 11:54:23< vultraz_laptop> I don't know how GUI2 works internally
20130610 11:54:44< fabi_> And why does that matter?
20130610 11:55:21< fabi_> The whole point of the gui2 wml.cfg files is to have not to know how it works internally.
20130610 11:55:31< LordBob_> vultraz_laptop: then, until we hear from him what the reason may be, we just let things hang; I think fabi_ already has a fix for the grayscale inconsistency, and this is all that really matters
20130610 11:55:35< vultraz_laptop> if lordbob wants to make GUI2 use the same behavior as GUI1 for disabled buttons
20130610 11:56:15< vultraz_laptop> LordBob_: oh, fabi_'s going to commit the fix? I thought you both expected me to do so
20130610 11:56:20< fabi_> ... then it can be done by using WML only entirely.
20130610 11:57:06< fabi_> vultraz_laptop: You can try if you want. Practice makes the master, we say in Germany. 
20130610 11:57:24< LordBob_> vultraz_laptop: what I want is to know that *if* the need ever comes to have a control with a specific disabled image, it can be done either with GUI1 or GUI2, which is already possible if I understood everything properly 
20130610 11:58:15< fabi_> LordBob_: Well, it is already possible if I or vultraz_laptop fix the gui1 c++ code and someone extends the gui2 button wml definition file.
20130610 11:58:40< vultraz_laptop> alright. so, for the GUI1 button, it should first look for a specific disabled images, and if none are found, fall back to a ~GS on the base. Is this agreed?
20130610 11:59:11< LordBob_> vultraz_laptop:  yes
20130610 12:01:15< LordBob_> fabi_, vultraz_laptop: if both GUI systems allow that behaviour then it will be perfect, but I'll be satisfied with just GUI1 and knowing that GUI2 can be modified if needed. 
20130610 12:01:39< fabi_> LordBob_: Okay, but the gui2 modification is trivial.
20130610 12:02:07< LordBob_> then, may as well do it
20130610 12:03:04< fabi_> Okay
20130610 12:03:56< LordBob_> I'll let you guys sort out the "who does what" part ;)
20130610 12:04:24 * LordBob_ returns to his buck of mud and crawls
20130610 12:04:27< fabi_> LordBob_: I guess French knows much more words for cake like meals than German :-)
20130610 12:04:30< vultraz_laptop> I'm fixing the GUI1 button code
20130610 12:05:30< LordBob_> fabi_: indeed. Must be because as a people, we are very fond of sweet foods
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20130610 12:06:54< fabi_> LordBob_: We have many words for how to murder people :-)
20130610 12:07:16< vultraz_laptop> fabi_: all the overlays paths should have size_postfix in them, right?
20130610 12:08:09< LordBob_> ôo
20130610 12:09:20< vultraz_laptop> LordBob_: what's oo mean anyway :P
20130610 12:10:10< LordBob_> It's me staring wide eyes and rising an eyebrow
20130610 12:10:17< vultraz_laptop> oh
20130610 12:10:48< LordBob_> There's probably a corresponding smiley somewhere, I just don't know its shortcut
20130610 12:10:59< fabi_> LordBob_: Not that I am much in the murder buisness. We made a pause for the last half century.
20130610 12:11:41< LordBob_> Heh. Here's to hoping it lasts another half century. :)
20130610 12:11:44< vultraz_laptop> fabi_: can you confirm that I did this correctly? http://pastebin.com/pUEVHBDJ
20130610 12:12:37< fabi_> vultraz_laptop: On a first glance, it looks okay. Why don't you just test it?
20130610 12:12:51< vultraz_laptop> k
20130610 12:13:06< vultraz_laptop> building
20130610 12:14:01< fabi_> LordBob_: Well, the truth is, we have outsourced the holocaust. Nowadays we just use what is called the "global market" to let people die in the world for our profit.
20130610 12:15:56< vultraz_laptop> seems to work fine
20130610 12:16:09< fabi_> vultraz_laptop: Sure, the global market is a nice thing.
20130610 12:16:21< LordBob_> fabi_: Ah, but then this new sort of holocaust has become a worldwide effort.
20130610 12:16:23< vultraz_laptop> s'cuse me?
20130610 12:16:51< LordBob_> maybe the one and only goal on which the largest part of mankind is tuly endeavouring altogether
20130610 12:16:54< fabi_> vultraz_laptop: Sorry, a joke. Let's go back to buisness. Did you try it with a disabled image on the disk?
20130610 12:17:06< LordBob_> fabi_: I think vutraz meant the commit works fine :p
20130610 12:17:23< vultraz_laptop> er, no, I didn't try with a disabled image on disk
20130610 12:17:38< fabi_> vultraz_laptop: Well, then your test is not worth much, is it?
20130610 12:18:18< vultraz_laptop> hm...I am getting a 'cannot open image' error, though
20130610 12:18:22< vultraz_laptop> shouldn't happen
20130610 12:18:23< vultraz_laptop> hang on
20130610 12:21:30< vultraz_laptop> ah, I keep forgetting to use -
20130610 12:25:20< vultraz_laptop> ok, it works with an image on disk
20130610 12:25:25< fabi_> LordBob_: Yes, that is sad. Not even the memebers of the European Union can work toghether efficentily.
20130610 12:25:46< fabi_> vultraz_laptop: And without one?
20130610 12:25:53< vultraz_laptop> yes
20130610 12:26:39< fabi_> vultraz_laptop: You may also fulfill shadowm's request to not let Wesnoth bail out if the base images are missing. 
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20130610 12:33:45< LordBob_> fabi_: indeed. I still hope we will live to see the EU become more than it is today, but what it will become exactly is anyone's guess
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20130610 12:34:41< fabi_> LordBob_: Yes, I would be fine if it would end in a union state like USA. 
20130610 12:35:20< vultraz_laptop> ugh...
20130610 12:35:25< vultraz_laptop> why do I keep getting 20130610 21:34:42 error display: could not open image 'buttons/button_square/button_square_30-disabled-pressed.png'
20130610 12:35:58 * Espreon chuckles
20130610 12:36:12< Espreon> The EU becoming a union state like the US
20130610 12:36:17< lipkab> USE
20130610 12:36:20< Espreon> ... what a statement.
20130610 12:36:32< Espreon> ... what... a concept... simply absurd.
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20130610 12:37:03< fabi_> Espreon: The concept of the USA is absurd?
20130610 12:37:28< Espreon> No, the concept of the EU becoming a union state like the US.
20130610 12:37:37< Espreon> ... I don't think it'd work very well.
20130610 12:37:54< lipkab> fabi_: The US is quite a different story.
20130610 12:38:02< Espreon> Indeed.
20130610 12:38:14< Espreon> Very, very different indeed.
20130610 12:38:48< lipkab> fabi_: There were a bunch of people mostly from the same country (England) who founded a state, which happened to conquer half of a continent afterwards.
20130610 12:39:25< lipkab> fabi_: In Europe, you'd have to force 40+ different nations into the same state.
20130610 12:39:59< Espreon> And you'll have to kill all those pesky non-international languages too.
20130610 12:40:30< enchilado> Everyone should speak Finnish
20130610 12:40:38< fabi_> :-)
20130610 12:40:43< Espreon> No, everyons should speak... ... Elfdalian.
20130610 12:41:00< fabi_> What the hell is Elfdalian?
20130610 12:41:10< Espreon> A language found... in Sweden.
20130610 12:41:16< Espreon> ... it is... suprisingly pleasant.
20130610 12:41:51< Espreon> And it has "Elf" in the na,e
20130610 12:41:52< Espreon> *name
20130610 12:41:58< Espreon> ... what more could you ask for?
20130610 12:43:20< fabi_> Sounds reasonable :-)
20130610 12:43:28< Espreon> :)
20130610 12:45:03< vultraz_laptop> er...can't figure why it keeps spitting this error...
20130610 12:45:10< vultraz_laptop> nothing seems to be missing...
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20130610 13:02:42< fabi_> vultraz_laptop: You code use a debugger to find out what is happening.
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20130610 13:20:36< vultraz_laptop> huh...error isn't there if the file is on disk, but I still can't find what's wrong >_>
20130610 13:23:01< vultraz_laptop> ah, I should probably check for the file first
20130610 13:26:52< thunderstruck> How to use --screenshot command line option? Every time I use it Wesnoth just goes to infinite loop.
20130610 13:27:07< thunderstruck> s/to/into
20130610 13:31:20< vultraz_laptop> ok, got it
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20130610 13:36:21< irker547> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth-old:master 06c757 / src/widgets/button.cpp: Corrected behavior of GUI1 button in regards to disabled states http://git.io/M-ee0w
20130610 13:37:48< vultraz_laptop> LordBob_, fabi_: ^
20130610 13:38:07< LordBob_> Ah, good. 
20130610 13:38:13 * LordBob_ builds and tests
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20130610 13:49:16< Soliton> thunderstruck: post a bug report.
20130610 13:49:32< vultraz_laptop> LordBob_: works fine?
20130610 13:49:38< LordBob_> vultraz_laptop: perfect. The greyscale is taking place normally and the disabled artwork is used as expected. 
20130610 13:49:48< vultraz_laptop> good :)
20130610 13:49:57< vultraz_laptop> that's another thing off the list
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20130610 13:50:13< LordBob_> vultraz_laptop: does this fix cover every kind of buttons, or just the square ones ?
20130610 13:50:27< vultraz_laptop> every
20130610 13:50:32< vultraz_laptop> (pretty sure)
20130610 13:50:51< vultraz_laptop> LordBob_: is there anything else for me to do?
20130610 13:52:00< thunderstruck> Soliton: okay. But what's is the correct usage? Should arguments provide full path or path from Wesnoth's data dir/
20130610 13:52:39< LordBob_> "fabi_: vultraz_laptop: You may also fulfill shadowm's request to not let Wesnoth bail out if the base images are missing."
20130610 13:53:45< Soliton> thunderstruck: doesn't look like --screenshot is covered in the man page so no idea. another bug report...
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20130610 13:54:56< vultraz_laptop> ah
20130610 13:54:58< vultraz_laptop> hm...
20130610 13:55:06< vultraz_laptop> dunno how to do that, exactly...
20130610 13:55:33< LordBob_> vultraz_laptop: there is also the similar GUI2 modification, which fabi described as "trivial" and to be done "in the WML.cfg file of the widget"
20130610 13:55:49< vultraz_laptop> hm...
20130610 13:55:52< LordBob_> (similar to what you just did with GUI1)
20130610 13:57:28< LordBob_> I'm quoting here, because I couldn't say how it's done and whether I would find it trivial ;) 
20130610 13:57:46< LordBob_> But maybe it speaks more to you
20130610 14:01:10< vultraz_laptop> I'm not sure how to do it either :/
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20130610 14:01:48< travis-ci> [travis-ci] wesnoth/wesnoth-old#11 (master - 06c757f : Charles Dang): The build passed.
20130610 14:01:48< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/compare/e458f4065846...06c757fc35be
20130610 14:01:48< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/builds/7946599
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20130610 14:03:04< LordBob_> vultraz_laptop: then best wait for fabi_  and ask him guidance
20130610 14:04:05< LordBob_> By the way, what does this Travis do ? Build with freshly-committed content to check that nothing's broken ?
20130610 14:04:36< loonycyborg> Exactly
20130610 14:06:10< AI0867> it could run tests too, but we currently don't have tests that work
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20130610 14:10:32< vultraz_laptop> I guess shadowm just wants an error printed if an image isn't found? Or does he want the --debug behavior to happen always?
20130610 14:14:51< vultraz_laptop> ok I really don't know how
20130610 14:20:30< LordBob_> vultraz_laptop: same as before: fabi seems to know what has to be done
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20130610 14:24:09< LordBob_> vultraz_laptop: as for what exactly shadowm suggested, yesterday's log at 21:34
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20130610 14:39:23< irker547> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth-old:master bbb51b / data/campaigns/Two_Brothers/_main.cfg: ToTB: updated campaign icon and difficulty images paths since jetrel moved them  http://git.io/EZZymQ
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20130610 14:54:16< AI0867> http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=555022#p555022 <-- someone seems to be putting effort into making 320x240 usable again
20130610 14:54:37< AI0867> er, 480x320
20130610 14:56:58< LordBob_> AI0867: no surprise: Dailin is the iOS port guy
20130610 14:57:23< LordBob_> He does need such small displays
20130610 14:58:14< vultraz_laptop> LordBob_: that mockup is actually pretty good, icon-wise
20130610 14:58:27< AI0867> LordBob_: yes, but the mockup was done by someone else
20130610 14:59:13< LordBob_> isn't it ? That mockup is precisely the kind of icon-basd display fabi_ and I are trying to promote
20130610 14:59:30< vultraz_laptop> LordBob_: yes, but I like the way he does it better than the one you proposed :P
20130610 14:59:32< AI0867> yes, and I like it
20130610 14:59:41< AI0867> but the post was made by someone who now has 4 posts
20130610 15:00:05< LordBob_> AI0867: I see that, yes. We really need to get in touch with Dailin
20130610 15:00:32< AI0867> and this is the second mockup he's posted
20130610 15:00:46< LordBob_> AI0867: in fact, the more I think of it, the silliest it sounds that the iOS version of the game is a separate port and not included in the core repo we're working on.
20130610 15:00:52< AI0867> well, the first were some slight GUI issues
20130610 15:01:27< LordBob_> AI0867: I mean, it would make things a lot easier if someone like Dailin was here among the dev and could share his needs, and in return we could provide what he requires
20130610 15:01:43< AI0867> LordBob_: I'm afraid that's at least partially the result of us using subversion until not too long ago
20130610 15:01:49< vultraz_laptop> LordBob_: I might even go so far as to say we should use that system/icons if we switch to an icon-based display
20130610 15:02:12< AI0867> but porters tend to have the habit of doing "source dumps"
20130610 15:02:43< AI0867> that is, they work until they have a release, then drop the source of that in a fresh repository
20130610 15:03:03< AI0867> then when they make a new release, all the differences are committed as a single commit
20130610 15:03:39< LordBob_> AI0867: I see. And so, anything that happens in the original source in the meantime gets kinda lost / has to be adapted
20130610 15:03:47< AI0867> the old iphone port worked this way, the android port, and dailin isn't really doing much different
20130610 15:04:11< AI0867> well, you can rediff from the version they based things on, but that just gets  you a huge diff
20130610 15:04:27< Soliton> LordBob_: and everything the porter has done is pretty much impossible to review and incorporate into mainline.
20130610 15:05:11< AI0867> in the case of kyle poole's iphone port, that consisted mainly of tearing features out, changing lots of systems to use slightly less memory-intensive stuff and so on
20130610 15:05:22< vultraz_laptop> LordBob_: what do you think?
20130610 15:05:40< AI0867> it was close to impossible to find changes that would actually make sense to include
20130610 15:06:48< LordBob_> Hm.  Either way, it kinda feels like a waste to have different teams/individuals working each in their corner, especially when the iOS port is a non-neglect-able source of income for the project
20130610 15:07:44< AI0867> yes
20130610 15:08:51< LordBob_> vultraz_laptop: I think this pika guys has put into image the very concept we were contemplating, as far as icons are concerned, so I'm all for it
20130610 15:08:59< LordBob_> *guy
20130610 15:09:19< vultraz_laptop> we should contact him and see if he has the images
20130610 15:09:33< vultraz_laptop> well, he does
20130610 15:09:37< vultraz_laptop> but if he would send us them
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20130610 15:10:30< LordBob_> vultraz_laptop: what in these images do you prefer, when compared to our own attempts ?
20130610 15:10:54< vultraz_laptop> LordBob_: can I see your concept again?
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20130610 15:11:13< travis-ci> [travis-ci] wesnoth/wesnoth-old#12 (master - bbb51bc : Charles Dang): The build passed.
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20130610 15:11:13< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/builds/7948243
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20130610 15:12:13< LordBob_> vultraz_laptop: here's the latest mockup
20130610 15:12:15< LordBob_> UI-game-mockups-05.jpg
20130610 15:12:18< LordBob_> errr
20130610 15:12:24< LordBob_> https://www.dropbox.com/s/td64xn1yhj8ptpl/UI-game-mockups-05.jpg
20130610 15:12:57< LordBob_> vultraz: and you can find a bunch of icons in images/icons/profiles - Some of them placehoders, others not
20130610 15:14:26< LordBob_> vultraz_laptop: note that part of the mockup is already obsolete,  and it only shows the dual profile display
20130610 15:15:33< LordBob_> vultraz_laptop: what we would like to make is split the profile display into two "short profiles" when the player is comparing a selected unit against a hovered over unit 
20130610 15:16:02< LordBob_> vultraz_laptop: and this short profile wouldn't be very different than the mockup AI0867 linked
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20130610 15:17:01< vultraz_laptop> hm....
20130610 15:18:11< vultraz_laptop> "Piss on feet"..? xD
20130610 15:18:50< bumbadadabum> lol
20130610 15:19:07< LordBob_> Ain't it a fine ranged weapon ? :p
20130610 15:19:16< vultraz_laptop> LordBob_: well, as for the mockup the other guy linked, I like the way the damage/strikes number is aligned to the edge of the screen 
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20130610 15:19:41< vultraz_laptop> LordBob_: and how the icons are immediately opposite it
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20130610 15:21:01< Soliton> AI0867: indeed https://github.com/dailin/wesnoth_ios/ is a joke. :-(
20130610 15:21:57< vultraz_laptop> LordBob_: also I like the way his icons don't uses boxes
20130610 15:23:33< vultraz_laptop> LordBob_: and the way his are monochrome
20130610 15:24:34< LordBob_> vultraz: color adds information
20130610 15:24:58< vultraz_laptop> hm..
20130610 15:25:25< LordBob_> vultraz_laptop: if we're going to represent things as different as attak types, attributes, traits, abilities... We need to be able to carry every bit of information we can
20130610 15:25:44< vultraz_laptop> that is true
20130610 15:26:08< vultraz_laptop> one thing I see bad about your mockup is that long unit/type/attack names will go off the edge :/
20130610 15:26:12< vultraz_laptop> unless they got scaled down?
20130610 15:27:06< LordBob_> Plus, tiny icons are fine for a handheld device which you hold at arm's length. On a computer screen, you don't want to lean forward half the time
20130610 15:27:57< vultraz_laptop> I already do that :P
20130610 15:28:19< vultraz_laptop> probably why I'm very slightly nearsighted :P
20130610 15:28:36< LordBob_> The names might be a problem, though. We're seriously considering not displaying them at all in dual profile display
20130610 15:28:57< LordBob_> They would still appear in the full profile, of course
20130610 15:30:48< vultraz_laptop> full profile?
20130610 15:31:03< LordBob_> when you only have one unit selected, or hovered over
20130610 15:31:11< vultraz_laptop> aj
20130610 15:31:12< vultraz_laptop> ah
20130610 15:31:21< LordBob_> in which case the full width of the panel is dedicated to its profile
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20130610 15:35:27< fabi_> Soliton: He is working like you described above? One commit per release?
20130610 15:40:06< elias> well, one commit per release would still be better than a new force pushed repository per release
20130610 15:41:30< fabi_> elias: force pushed repository?
20130610 15:42:11< elias> just overwriting with a new repository :P (but he's not doing that)
20130610 15:42:44< fabi_> I see.
20130610 15:45:30< Soliton> fabi_: pretty much. huge commits, most with a commit message of "version 1.0". best commit is this one: https://github.com/dailin/wesnoth_ios/commit/0fc1dfc7573fc69f8d2113fae5f33e73d8d13176 (only 55 changed files with 6,035 additions and 4,292 deletions!)
20130610 15:46:14< Soliton> impossible to find changes to actual upstream code.
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20130610 15:46:41< Soliton> on the bright side it might mean there are none and it's all in the build system or whatever...
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20130610 15:48:36< fabi_> Soliton: That is a pity. When dailin appeared on the forum I took care about him. Talked him into coming here, being part of the dev team. He agreed to share his money with the project and to include his coding into our repository to make further releases more easy.
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20130610 15:49:09< LordBob_> ôo You did this much ?
20130610 15:49:12< Soliton> well he's at least been here a couple of times iirc.
20130610 15:49:19< fabi_> LordBob_: Yes I did.
20130610 15:49:34< Soliton> someone just needs to push him further in the right direction.
20130610 15:50:13< fabi_> LordBob_: But I was called of by senior developers. I should not handle him because of legal issues.
20130610 15:50:29< LordBob_> Legal ?
20130610 15:50:32< LordBob_> Oh, well
20130610 15:51:14< fabi_> I thought the people who took over handling him would also take care about getting him into to team like I tried.
20130610 15:51:23< fabi_> Seems that wasn't the case.
20130610 15:51:50< Soliton> since that has nothing todo with legal issues surely that was a fairly naive assumption.
20130610 15:52:14< Soliton> i doubt anyone told you not to talk to dailin or something.
20130610 15:52:53< AI0867> we may have to remind dailin to check in changes again. I think we've had releases since march 1
20130610 15:53:38< Soliton> well, continuing to check in changes like he's done is not really useful.
20130610 15:54:05< AI0867> yeah, but without that, you're pretty clearly in violation of the GPL
20130610 15:54:24< fabi_> We need to get him into #wesnoth-dev permanently. Just like it succeeded with LordBob_ :-)
20130610 15:54:31< Soliton> if he's released new versions of his app, yeah.
20130610 15:54:52< Soliton> fabi_: that would be a good first step indeed.
20130610 15:54:54< fabi_> dailin is a polite and nice person. Pretty easy to handle.
20130610 15:56:48< vultraz> `
20130610 15:56:52< vultraz> ignore that
20130610 15:57:14< AI0867> this one's even worse: https://github.com/cjhopman/Battle-for-Wesnoth-on-Android/commits/master
20130610 15:58:06< AI0867> and that's from someone we already knew somewhat
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20130610 17:24:56< irker547> wesnoth: Alexander van Gessel wesnoth-old:master 997d7d / src/tests/test_formula_ai.cpp: Disable broken test http://git.io/-h_QNg
20130610 17:24:58< irker547> wesnoth: Alexander van Gessel wesnoth-old:master 828fb3 / src/ (ai/configuration.cpp ai/configuration.hpp multiplayer_connect.cpp): Allow [modification] to add [ai]s http://git.io/xvVAlQ
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20130610 18:11:25< bumbadadabum> LordBob_: Have you committed the anims?
20130610 18:11:55< bumbadadabum> because I'm fairly interesting in seeing them in-game
20130610 18:13:11< LordBob_> bumbadadabum: not yet. I wanted to see if anything needs to be fixed before. But if you want, I can post the individual frames
20130610 18:13:41< bumbadadabum> LordBob_: Ok
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20130610 18:21:07< LordBob_> bumbadadabum: there you are. Frames are posted for both anims
20130610 18:21:27< bumbadadabum> LordBob_: Thanks
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20130610 20:34:31< shadowm> wesbot: seen dailin
20130610 20:34:31-!- crimson_penguin [~crimson_p@wesnoth/developer/crimsonpenguin] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130610 20:34:31< wesbot> shadowm: Sorry, I don't know of dailin.
20130610 20:34:33< shadowm> wesbot: seen dailin_
20130610 20:34:33< wesbot> shadowm: Sorry, I don't know of dailin_.
20130610 20:34:39-!- shadowm_desktop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130610 20:34:45< bumbadadabum> shadowm: He doesn't have IRC afaik
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20130610 20:34:55< shadowm> I thought I saw him here the other day.
20130610 20:36:19< bumbadadabum> hmm
--- Log closed Tue Jun 11 00:00:57 2013