--- Log opened Wed Jun 12 00:00:21 2013
--- Day changed Wed Jun 12 2013
20130612 00:00:21< mattsc> flix, anonymissimus: I'm looking through the source code to see if there's an indication of why there's a protect_my_unit.  There's that protect_only_own_unit parameter that I don't yet understand (for some sort of backward compatibility, maybe), but I don't have time to continue looking into it right now.
20130612 00:01:00< mattsc> We should probably ask Crab_ or Nephro about this just to be sure.
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20130612 00:04:16< anonymissimus> flix: that syntax is against wml principles, filter tags don't normally limit the amount of things befor they start to filter
20130612 00:05:22< anonymissimus> with the exception that some unit filtering tags filter over recall list units as well, btu most don't
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20130612 00:13:36< Espreon> I too am not fond of having this [protect_my_unit]
20130612 00:15:11< anonymissimus> flix: I'm looking into making wmllint complain about the deprecated syntax
20130612 00:15:58< flix> anonymissimus: okay, thanks
20130612 00:16:54< flix> anonymissimus, Espreon, mattsc: there it is: http://gna.org/bugs/?15465
20130612 00:18:40< Espreon> Hmmm...
20130612 00:18:46< Espreon> How funny.
20130612 00:19:01< flix> Espreon: :P
20130612 00:20:10< anonymissimus> muahaha, I hope that never happens to me :)
20130612 00:20:49< mattsc> I'm glad that I am not the only one who forgets things !
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20130612 00:27:03< flix> anonymissimus, mattsc: I suggest that we discuss it with Crab_ and wait for a decision on this before we make this forum post
20130612 00:30:03< shadowm> LordBob_: Glad you liked it!
20130612 00:30:40< flix> anonymissimus: mattsc: If the decision is that the tag should be removed then I'm willing to do the coding and the conversions in the mainline scenarios.
20130612 00:31:26< mattsc> flix: sounds good to me :)  Thanks.
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20130612 00:39:11< Espreon> Hmmmm, I think I recall why I asked for that.
20130612 00:39:58< Espreon> ... ... ... hmm..
20130612 00:40:39< shadowm> protect_my_unit will be removed?
20130612 00:42:09< flix> Espreon: I think you asked for that because the single-line command protect_leader=... got somewhat complex.
20130612 00:42:09< Espreon> Eh, meh.
20130612 00:42:13< Espreon> Yeah.
20130612 00:42:16< Espreon> Pretty much.
20130612 00:43:20< flix> shadowm: Maybe
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20130612 00:50:00< anonymissimus> 94 hits to update in my campaign :(
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20130612 00:55:45< AI0867> fabi: on a sufficiently large screen, it would be nice to have all the terrain categories available in the sidebar without having to open a menu
20130612 00:57:17< fabi> AI0867: Yes, noted. But I like to wait for mordante's new dialog before I go on. The dialog might solve to problem to a satisfying degree.
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20130612 01:02:06< flix> Espreon: Can't this easily be solved with a macro? Something like {PROTECT_LEADER 5}, which will expand into a [goal] tag. (Probably there is also a side parameter needed for the macro though.)
20130612 01:04:18< Espreon> I suppose it could.
20130612 01:07:12< shadowm> fabi: What new dialog would that be?
20130612 01:08:54< fabi> shadowm: It is some kind of menu. But it tries to be always a square to keep mouse distance small. No text but only icons, as many in rows as in columns. It is basically what we had before but in dialog form.
20130612 01:09:22< shadowm> And what will it be used for?
20130612 01:09:38< fabi> The palette group menu.
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20130612 01:10:34< shadowm> Ah, sounds good but it will require some changes to how dialog events are handled in GUI2.
20130612 01:10:45< shadowm> At least, last time I asked for something similar I got a negative response.
20130612 01:11:26< fabi> shadowm: Well, mordante is working on the dialog, I guess he knows about the problems already. Would be nice if you talk to him about your concerns.
20130612 01:12:18< fabi> shadowm: To keep mouse clicks to a minimum the dialog could be opened by click down, kept open during mouse pressed and select when you release the button again.
20130612 01:13:10< shadowm> I am sure he knows what he is doing and that you've provided him with all the ideas.
20130612 01:13:33< fabi> I hope so.
20130612 01:13:39< shadowm> Hopefully the result will be something I can reuse in the add-ons manager dialog.
20130612 01:13:54< fabi> Where would you apply it?
20130612 01:13:56< shadowm> My original idea was to have the filter options be a popup thing instead of a modal dialog.
20130612 01:14:17< shadowm> But at the time I was told this wasn't possible because of how click-dismissable dialogs handle events.
20130612 01:15:05< fabi> Hmmm, please explain the difference to me.
20130612 01:15:52< fabi> I mean, we have gui2 tooltips being quite popup like already.
20130612 01:16:03< shadowm> Tooltips do not handle any mouse click events.
20130612 01:16:13< fabi> Ah yes.
20130612 01:16:43< shadowm> Anyway, IIRC GUI2 click-dismissable dialogs will always catch click events and terminate, regardless of what widget would otherwise be the receiver. This means that I couldn't possibly have a click-dismissable GUI2 dialog with working checkboxes.
20130612 01:17:11< shadowm> And this IIRC why they are currently designed so that they stop being click-dismissable when they have children who can receive mouse click events.
20130612 01:17:50< shadowm> Including click-dismissable dialogs that are forced to get active scrollbars because of text or other widgets not fitting.
20130612 01:19:20< fabi> click-dismissable means, they close when you click outside the dialog?
20130612 01:19:31< shadowm> Both that and inside the dialog.
20130612 01:19:44< shadowm> See the objectives display in-game, for example.
20130612 01:21:13< shadowm> Also notice that when the text becomes too long to fit, it stops being click-dismissable and gains a scrollbar and a close button (which glitch horribly with dialogs using transparency blur due to a design limitation in GUI2).
20130612 01:21:15< fabi> In case you toggle a checkbox in the dialog, it wouldn't close, would it?
20130612 01:21:30< shadowm> That'd be the idea.
20130612 01:24:30< fabi> shadowm: By the way, do you mind if I replace the list on the options dialog with a radiobox group solution?
20130612 01:25:18< shadowm> As long as the code is clean and I can add new options later without bashing my head against the wall, sure.
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20130612 01:25:52< fabi> Well, I guess currently you can add more options by c++ only.
20130612 01:26:27< fabi> The radiobox solution would require to add the box in the gui2 cfg file as well.
20130612 01:26:54< shadowm> Yeah, but it might actually turn out to look better than the listbox approach.
20130612 01:27:44< shadowm> Listboxes are better suited to long option lists or user-defined data IMO and the installation status selection doesn't fit either criterion.
20130612 01:27:58< fabi> Indeed, I think this is a clear case of radiobox group being the gui element of choice.
20130612 01:28:11< anonymissimus> flix: , mattsc there's a left case of protect_location in data\core\macros\ai_controller.cfg
20130612 01:28:41< anonymissimus> (#ifdef __UNUSED is no reason to not convert it as well)
20130612 01:28:55< fabi> And option lists are for for dynamic context, while the "Installation status:" is more or less constant.
20130612 01:29:03< AI0867> the orange orb is perhaps too red
20130612 01:29:09< fabi> s/context/content
20130612 01:29:20< anonymissimus> considering how much manual work that is it should be an automatic conversion :(
20130612 01:29:20< AI0867> difficult to distinguish between "no moves left" and "some moves left"
20130612 01:30:17< flix> anonymissimus: I saw that it ignored it because of this #ifdef __UNUSED. I will convert and commit it.
20130612 01:31:51< fabi> shadowm: Something different, addon server and forum can be on different hosts. How do you prefer their communication with each other?
20130612 01:32:30< shadowm> fabi: As configurable as wesnothd's FUH is.
20130612 01:32:38< fabi> FUH?
20130612 01:32:43< anonymissimus> I'm not sure whether I should commit my wmllint patch; it emits multiple messages for the same case (can't fix that), but no false positives it seems
20130612 01:32:44< shadowm> forum_user_handler
20130612 01:33:19< fabi> shadowm: Is it a server?
20130612 01:33:34< shadowm> It's an optional piece of code. The configuration section is explained in the wesnothd manpage.
20130612 01:34:00< shadowm> doc/man/wesnothd.6 , user_handler section.
20130612 01:34:11< shadowm> I mean [user_handler] section.
20130612 01:34:47< flix> anonymissimus: better multiple messages than no message.
20130612 01:35:08< shadowm> fabi: You aren't going to actually spend time implementing a complicated campaignd feature now, are you?
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20130612 01:35:51< fabi> shadowm: I am going to implement the rating system we talked about, I thought the context would be clear.
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20130612 01:36:05< shadowm> fabi: And what about the GSoC project?
20130612 01:37:28< fabi> shadowm: The most work is on the forum end of the pipe.
20130612 01:38:00< fabi> shadowm: Changes to campaignd should be rather small and I will talk to trademaster about it.
20130612 01:38:14< shadowm> I am hoping you don't need to modify the forums' codebase for this. It is possible to use phpBB functions and session functionality in external scripts.
20130612 01:38:35< fabi> shadowm: Indeed, I do not want to touch the forum's code at all.
20130612 01:39:46< shadowm> Also, I am not sure there's been an official verdict on the rating system or you are just being hasty.
20130612 01:41:03< fabi> shadowm: It is a FPI, Indeed.
20130612 01:41:26< shadowm> That is not quite what I was referring to.
20130612 01:41:53< fabi> ?
20130612 01:41:54< shadowm> How many developers think this is a good idea that is actually worth investing time into and what is the intended rating system?
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20130612 01:43:04< shadowm> After seeing Dugi's outburst I can't help but think not everyone is ready for terse ratings with no content whatsoever.
20130612 01:43:13< fabi> true
20130612 01:43:23< shadowm> In particular the person who brought up the topic in the first place.
20130612 01:43:30< fabi> I guess Dugi is still a very young member of the community.
20130612 01:44:36< irker766> wesnoth: flix wesnoth-old:master aafe86 / data/core/macros/ai_controller.cfg: Convert a (unused) macro to use [goal] http://git.io/7j6RfA
20130612 01:44:44< shadowm> Joined July 22nd 2010.
20130612 01:45:19< fabi> I mean young in years spend on earth, not exactly the joining date on the forum.
20130612 01:45:28< vultraz> He's in university, AFAIK
20130612 01:46:21< shadowm> Yeah... I'm not going to go there. Age isn't necessarily the most useful criterion for anything.
20130612 01:46:35< fabi> Very true. 
20130612 01:46:48< mattsc> flix, anonymissimus: just got back.  Looks like you took care of everything, flix?
20130612 01:47:07< shadowm> People can be over 50 years old and still have quite childish outburst.
20130612 01:47:11< shadowm> outbursts.
20130612 01:47:48< vultraz> I'm younger than dugi, just saying
20130612 01:48:13< fabi> shadowm: Do you think it is a good idea to start a poll on the forum in a developer restricted area about the rating thing?
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20130612 01:48:57< shadowm> I am not sure about our development team and the forums at this point, really.
20130612 01:49:05< shadowm> And I'll stop there before I start ranting again.
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20130612 01:49:36< flix> mattsc: everything? :D ... Just converted one little macro I left out (because it's unused). But as anonymissimus pointed out it should be converted as well...
20130612 01:50:31< mattsc> flix: when you checked for code to convert, did you search in data/ai also?
20130612 01:50:43< flix> mattsc: I also had the idea to define a macro like {PROTECT_LEADER 5}. What is your opinion?
20130612 01:50:45< flix> mattsc: no
20130612 01:51:32< fabi> shadowm: Well, it is difficult to measure a majority among the developers otherwise. Using the mailing list might end in endless discussions without reaching a decision. A yes/no poll performs better and people can still discuss the issue.
20130612 01:51:39< mattsc> flix: yeah, just reading up on things.  It should probably have two arguments (radius and value), but besides that it's a good idea.
20130612 01:51:59< shadowm> fabi: The only thing I know for sure is that many people here consider the Ideas forum to be a joke.
20130612 01:52:09< shadowm> So they generally don't read it.
20130612 01:52:32< fabi> That is a pity.
20130612 01:52:38< shadowm> And I can't help but agree with the sentiment. Ideas is currently a disorganized mess. Whoever thought that allowing people to post ideas for UMC was a good idea?
20130612 01:52:47 * shadowm glares at Gambit.
20130612 01:53:02< flix> mattsc: data/ai is clean! (puh)
20130612 01:53:24< Gambit> shadowm: that will be taken care of in the new forum reorganization
20130612 01:53:36< shadowm> Gambit: No, that's not a valid excuse.
20130612 01:53:37< mattsc> flix: thanks for checking.  But it would have been okay to do that in a separate commit anyway, so you could have claimed intention.  :)
20130612 01:53:46< shadowm> People shouldn't be allowed to post every UMC idea anywhere, period.
20130612 01:53:57< shadowm> Otherwise you'll certainly have an infinite influx of ridiculous ideas.
20130612 01:54:13< flix> mattsc: is it possible to let the macro figure out the side by itself?
20130612 01:54:42< shadowm> For example, MC's randomness thread should really have been killed already.
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20130612 01:55:06< shadowm> It's just going in circles last time I checked.
20130612 01:55:47< fabi> Well, I thought he proposes for mainline inclusion, not for UMC.
20130612 01:56:26< shadowm> But the forum allows posting ideas for add-on creators. ("Categories" sectio in http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=34904 )
20130612 01:56:31< fabi> The idea, well, most RPG systems have some sort of lucky or critical hit.
20130612 01:56:34< mattsc> flix: I forgot if there's a variable called 'side_number' or something in WML (it's been so long!).  But if not, it can definitely be done with Lua.
20130612 01:56:39< Gambit> shadowm: and actually, UMC ideas could always be posted there
20130612 01:56:42< shadowm> So if an idea isn't suitable for mainline it's still allowed to be discussed forever for some weird reason.
20130612 01:56:46< fabi> But I doubt that the idea makes much sense in Wesnoth's context.
20130612 01:56:50< fabi> Even in UMC.
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20130612 01:58:39< shadowm> Gambit: Kids these days! Back in my days, far-fetched ideas were locked with the advice of implementing them in UMC and seeing how well they worked in practice!
20130612 01:59:16< fabi> Well, but there was or is still some abuse.
20130612 01:59:52< shadowm> I only see two locked threads on page 1.
20130612 01:59:56< fabi> We often call for CABD in the ideas context.
20130612 01:59:57< mattsc> flix: yes, `:show_var side_number` give the side number in a scenario.  So: `side=$side_number`
20130612 02:01:01< fabi> And often this is not true just because the idea would need to be ported to every single scenario in many cases.
20130612 02:01:09< flix> mattsc: okay, thanks for checking. So maybe I'll write one over the next days. Shouldn't take too long.
20130612 02:01:29< shadowm> I've not seen CABD being misused by developers, myself, only a few overzealous players.
20130612 02:02:22< shadowm> This is where our opinions with regards to extensibility vs. handing everything pre-made diverge.
20130612 02:04:28< fabi> If I understood the new "modification" addon type correctly, it solves many of this cases.
20130612 02:05:03< fabi> I wonder id it can be put in use for SP campaigns as well.
20130612 02:05:13< fabi> s/id/if
20130612 02:06:22< shadowm> The top-level [lua] tag is very powerful in single-player too.
20130612 02:06:54< shadowm> Or so I've heard. I haven't really used it for anything other than registering WML tag handlers and custom unit statuses for the theme engine.
20130612 02:11:45< mattsc> flix: sounds good.  And you'll contact Crab_ about protect_my_unit= too?  (you're much closer in time zone to him than I, I think)
20130612 02:15:40< flix> mattsc: yes I can do it. (I have some other questions anyway). But the best thing is when he would discus it briefly with anonymissimus. Because for me it would be also fine if the tag remains. I have a neutral opinion there :)
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20130612 02:16:32< travis-ci> [travis-ci] wesnoth/wesnoth-old#26 (master - aafe863 : flix): The build passed.
20130612 02:16:32< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/compare/e087bbfa5933...aafe86364b2d
20130612 02:16:32< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/builds/8001538
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20130612 02:17:05< mattsc> flix: ok.  :)  Well, I'll be off soon and might not be back online tonight.  Talk to you tomorrow then.
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20130612 03:22:22< shadowm> vultraz: Do you know whether GUI2 progress bars can be used in Lua?
20130612 03:23:01< vultraz> well...
20130612 03:23:07< vultraz> I'm sure you could place the widget
20130612 03:23:14< shadowm> Never mind, I answered that question myself because I'm awesome.
20130612 03:23:16< shadowm> They can.
20130612 03:23:20< vultraz> as to whether you can make it do anything
20130612 03:23:21< vultraz> no idea
20130612 03:23:31< shadowm> wesnoth.set_dialog_value() can set the progress bar's percentage value.
20130612 03:23:45< vultraz> oo, nice
20130612 03:23:50< vultraz> I gotta use this somehow
20130612 03:26:19< vultraz> no idea what for, though
20130612 03:32:35< shadowm> Compulsive programming.
20130612 03:39:10< vultraz> what practical use could a progress bar have in umc
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20130612 04:40:08< Alarantalara> What do I need to do to get commit access to the current repository?
20130612 04:41:38< vultraz> talk to AI0867 
20130612 04:45:21< vultraz> Alarantalara: you're on os x 10.6?
20130612 04:45:29< Alarantalara> At the moment
20130612 04:45:34< shadowm> Alarantalara: Tell me your GitHub account name.
20130612 04:45:40< Alarantalara> Alarantalara
20130612 04:47:01< vultraz> ok, good
20130612 04:47:39< shadowm> Alarantalara: Done.
20130612 04:47:48< Alarantalara> Thank-you
20130612 04:50:15< vultraz> Jetrel_new: can you do me a favor and see if the wesnoth XCode proj builds on 10.8 without any settings tweaks?
20130612 04:59:21-!- Gambit [~gambit@wesnoth/developer/grickit] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20130612 05:03:21< Jetrel_new> vultraz: as of ~3 or so days ago, no
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20130612 05:12:08< vultraz> Jetrel_new: what was the problem
20130612 05:12:40< Jetrel_new> vultraz:  I don't recall right now; something about linking - I need to knuckle down and draw for a few hours, here.
20130612 05:12:56< Jetrel_new> I'm sorry I can't hunt that down right now. :(
20130612 05:13:24< vultraz> no prob, it's not a priority
20130612 05:13:47< vultraz> 10.6 and 7 seem to build fine out of the box, so that's what's important
20130612 05:22:06< vultraz> (if you're wondering why I was asking, it was to see if it build out of theboc on 6,7 and 8)
20130612 05:37:42-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: current repo: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old (Please read the dev-ml for the latest status!) | http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeIdeas | 195 bugs, 333 feature requests, 26 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20130612 05:45:48< irker766> wesnoth: Alarantalara wesnoth-old:master 2b1c2f / data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/scenarios/03_Stirring_in_the_Night.cfg: Remove orc side from capture message http://git.io/P_QkkA
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20130612 06:09:02< travis-ci> [travis-ci] wesnoth/wesnoth-old#27 (master - 2b1c2f2 : Alarantalara): The build passed.
20130612 06:09:02< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/compare/aafe86364b2d...2b1c2f24d426
20130612 06:09:02< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/builds/8004726
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20130612 06:20:12< shadowm> Jetrel_new: Is it just me, or the Knight's canvas isn't 72x72? https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21371130/screenshots/wesnoth-campaigns-menu-with-weird-knight-canvas.png
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20130612 06:28:53< Jetrel_new> shadowm:  correct - they need space for their lances.
20130612 06:29:46< shadowm> Okay, well, as you can see that kind of breaks the campaigns menu.
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20130612 06:30:43< Jetrel_new> shadowm:  Yeah, I knew that going in.
20130612 06:31:01< Jetrel_new> It also breaks the in-game sidebar display.
20130612 06:32:02< shadowm> That might be fixed later with the new theme fabi and LordBob are working in, but I don't know what to do about the campaigns menu.
20130612 06:32:10< Jetrel_new> I appreciate that it is a PITA, and I'm sorry for that; at the same time, I do believe we need rigorous, adaptive support in the engine to procedurally work around stuff like this.  I can write pseudocode to solve this, if you'd like.
20130612 06:32:57< Jetrel_new> Because yeah, for the campaigns menu, people can be coerced to always provide 72x72 images - but for the unit preview in the sidebar, they can't.
20130612 06:33:27< shadowm> Yeah, I've been at the artist end of the dilemma rather recently.
20130612 06:33:28< Jetrel_new> And since we'll need a solution there, that same should be a drop-in that can work in the campaigns menu as well.
20130612 06:34:06< shadowm> I chose to use ~SCALE() to provide custom scaled-down versions of the relevant baseframes for use in the sidebar, but that obviously wouldn't look well in the menu.
20130612 06:35:14< Jetrel_new> Basically, step 1 is to take the image canvas, and find a bounding box which crops away rows and columns containing fully transparent pixels; getting a min box containing all the opaque pixels.
20130612 06:35:41< shadowm> There is an internal function that does that already.
20130612 06:36:05< shadowm> It's just not used for listboxes in general, although it might be possible to adapt it for an image-path function.
20130612 06:36:11< Jetrel_new> Take whichever of it's H/W is the max, then, and scale that down to 72px - and scale the other by the same scaling factor.
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20130612 06:38:02< Jetrel_new> Hmm
20130612 06:38:34< Jetrel_new> width/height = scaling_factor;
20130612 06:39:20< Jetrel_new> new_width = 72 * scaling_factor
20130612 06:39:35< Jetrel_new> new_height = 72 * (1/scaling_factor)
20130612 06:39:38< Jetrel_new> (probably)
20130612 06:40:01< shadowm> The thing is that scaling tends to ruin these sprites, and this one will be standing together in the same column as unscaled sprites.
20130612 06:41:04< Jetrel_new> shadowm: speaking as one who drew them, I honestly don't get cut up if they get billinear scaled in this context.
20130612 06:41:17< Jetrel_new> It beats the alternative.
20130612 06:41:38< shadowm> Yeah... I was speaking from a user interface design standpoint.
20130612 06:41:48< Jetrel_new> It's not perfect, but sometimes solutions can't be optimal.
20130612 06:43:17< shadowm> So the smallest box I can have is 48x72, so 0.67 * 72 x 0.67 * (1/0.67)...
20130612 06:44:12< shadowm> Er.
20130612 06:45:09< shadowm> 48.24 x 72*1.49, yeah, that's not right.
20130612 06:46:34< shadowm> Shouldn't the factor really be 72/max(72,max(height,width)) ?
20130612 06:47:49< shadowm> Actually, I'm overthinking this. The smallest box that can contain all opaque pixels in this case is 48x72.
20130612 06:48:04< shadowm> So for this particular case it'd be enough with centering that on a 72x72 canvas.
20130612 06:48:16< shadowm> Tell you what, why don't you file a feature request and assign it to mordante? :p
20130612 06:51:02< Jetrel_new> Sure, I'll get around to that.
20130612 06:51:35< Jetrel_new> I plan to be doing stuff for wesnoth on sundays.
20130612 07:03:35< shadowm> AI0867: Okay, so I started NR scenario 1 and:
20130612 07:03:35< shadowm> 20130612 01:03:21 error display: could not open image 'misc/ellipse-nozoc-leader-top.png'
20130612 07:03:38< shadowm> 20130612 01:03:21 error display: could not open image 'misc/ellipse-nozoc-leader-bottom.png'
20130612 07:03:45< shadowm> AI0867: That's kind of a problem. :p
20130612 07:04:57< shadowm> Especially on debug mode: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21371130/screenshots/tallin-ellipse.png
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20130612 07:26:25< vultraz> shadowm: how come the image not found thing only happens on debug mode. I don't see why it shouldn't on regular
20130612 07:26:52< shadowm> That wasn't a question.
20130612 07:27:00< vultraz> ...
20130612 07:27:03< vultraz> ? <-
20130612 07:27:11< shadowm> That'd be an empty question. Next.
20130612 07:27:45< vultraz> ................................
20130612 07:27:54< vultraz>  how come the image not found thing only happens on debug mode *?*
20130612 07:28:07< shadowm> Why are there asterisks around the question mark?
20130612 07:28:26< shadowm> Anyway, I don't remember what the rationale was because I obviously have nothing to do with it.
20130612 07:29:50< vultraz> I would think a better solution would be to expand that behavior to all states
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20130612 09:41:48< vultraz> hulllo LordBob_ 
20130612 09:42:03< LordBob_> hello vultraz 
20130612 09:45:40< vultraz> LordBob_: question about misc/selection1 2 3 images
20130612 09:45:46< vultraz> LordBob_: what are 1 and 3 for?
20130612 09:46:55< LordBob_> selection1 may have been an older artwork. I'm not sure if and where it's used
20130612 09:47:08< LordBob_> maybe it's still used by some UMC, though
20130612 09:48:49< LordBob_> selection3 is an alternate style that I created in case we would want to differentiate the "currently-selected" and "hovered over" states in a listbox / menu. this is currently done with a radiobox, 
20130612 09:49:44< shadowm> misc/selection looks like the listbox item imageset used in the default lobby.
20130612 09:50:03< vultraz> ah, yes it is
20130612 09:50:15< vultraz> can I change it to use selection2?
20130612 09:50:32< shadowm> I don't see why not now that the lobby is all golden and shiny.
20130612 09:50:38< vultraz> mk
20130612 09:56:20< LordBob_> shadowm: a side question; do you know in which context "tinyGUI" elements are used. (for example, "images/misc/bar-energy-tinyGU"I vs "bar-energy"
20130612 09:56:31< LordBob_> ?
20130612 09:58:44< shadowm> LordBob_: Nowadays, absolutely nowhere. Before 1.9.x, there used to be a build option to replace a considerable amount of GUI behavior and appearance to suit resolutions less than 800x480, but it was dropped. It was called "tinygui".
20130612 09:59:27< LordBob_> Ok, thanks
20130612 09:59:28< shadowm> 800x480 also used to be handled by the --smallgui command line option but now it's a built-in automatic and transparent thing.
20130612 10:00:28< vultraz_laptop> shadowm: can those images be removed, then?
20130612 10:00:54< shadowm> shadowm@nanacore:~/src/wesnoth$ find data images src -name '*tinygui*'
20130612 10:00:54< shadowm> images/misc/bar-energy-tinygui.png
20130612 10:01:00< shadowm> I don't see any others.
20130612 10:01:41< vultraz_laptop> ok
20130612 10:01:46< vultraz_laptop> ill delete it
20130612 10:04:04< vultraz_laptop> anyway, re selections, shouldn't the images be in images/dialogs?
20130612 10:05:01< shadowm> Don't ask me that stuff because I find the current directory layout to be inherently broken in multiple ways, and yet we are stuck with it because the decisions were made by people with greater historical weight.
20130612 10:05:13< vultraz_laptop> LordBob_, what do you think
20130612 10:06:13< LordBob_> I think I put those images in there completely by default, but indeed they would rather belong with the dialogs
20130612 10:06:36< vultraz_laptop> ok, I'll move them
20130612 10:06:53< vultraz_laptop> anyway er...I'm going to delete selection- and then rename selection2- to selection-
20130612 10:07:06< LordBob_> This may break things in ways more than one
20130612 10:07:17< LordBob_> So exert caution ;)
20130612 10:07:18< vultraz_laptop> then update refs to 2 to use 1
20130612 10:07:48< LordBob_> Is there an in-game clik-and-drag selection, btw ?
20130612 10:07:57< vultraz_laptop> no
20130612 10:08:06< shadowm> LordBob_: As in...?
20130612 10:09:02< LordBob_> shadowm: as in "click left moused button, drag and create a selection box". It makes little sense in the game, but maybe the editor uses one, I'm just asking.
20130612 10:09:12< LordBob_> *left mouse button
20130612 10:09:13< shadowm> Units can be dragged from one hex to another for moving, and there's a very obscure trick in the MP sides setup screen when creating a game that allows dragging... comboboxes... to swap player slots.
20130612 10:09:37< shadowm> But yeah, there isn't anything like what you mentioned.
20130612 10:10:07< shadowm> The editor's selection tool just sets a hex-sized highlight overlay on affected hexes.
20130612 10:10:41< vultraz_laptop> LordBob_: I'm going to also remove the selection_transparent images
20130612 10:11:08< shadowm> LordBob_: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21371130/screenshots/editor-selection.png
20130612 10:11:10< LordBob_> vultraz_laptop: and replaced them with image path functions ? Sure, go ahead
20130612 10:11:25< vultraz_laptop> well, I don't think they're used at all
20130612 10:11:34< shadowm> vultraz_laptop: [message] [option]
20130612 10:12:03< vultraz_laptop> there is no transparent version of the old selection_
20130612 10:12:09< LordBob_> shadowm: ah yes, this one I had seen before.
20130612 10:12:40< shadowm> vultraz_laptop: Right, because GUI2 listboxes used selection2
20130612 10:12:47< shadowm> used/use
20130612 10:14:32< vultraz_laptop> ah
20130612 10:14:34< vultraz_laptop> ok
20130612 10:14:38< vultraz_laptop> well, IPF it is then
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20130612 10:27:31< groggy> AI0867: around?
20130612 10:33:08< fabi> vultraz_laptop, LordBob_, AI0867: About the missing image in NR, what caused it? And who is taking care about it?
20130612 10:33:20< vultraz_laptop> AI0867 is
20130612 10:34:03< shadowm> fabi: AI0867 did it.
20130612 10:34:24< LordBob_> missing image ?
20130612 10:34:25< shadowm> dbd66472997bb4057501006d07b723a1480cad06 and 6bc3de766387298fc230c24c4733bf697f65ea57
20130612 10:34:39< fabi> Thanks.
20130612 10:34:53< shadowm> In particular
20130612 10:34:55< shadowm> !log dbd66472997bb4057501006d07b723a1480cad06
20130612 10:34:56< shikadibot> shadowm: Revision dbd664 (Alexander van Gessel) on Tue Jun 11 14:37:42 2013:
20130612 10:34:59< shikadibot> shadowm: Use the leader ellipse
20130612 10:35:01< fabi> LordBob_: AI0867 introduced a special ellipse around leaders.
20130612 10:35:01< shikadibot> shadowm: Web interface URL: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/commit/dbd664
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20130612 10:35:19< shadowm> fabi: The images have been around since 1.3.x or before but weren't used in mainline.
20130612 10:35:26< fabi> LordBob_: But in NR your leader is also a level 0 unit with no zoc.
20130612 10:35:33< LordBob_> fabi: ah, yes, saw that. The artwork had been lying around for quite a while already
20130612 10:35:35< shadowm> As far as I know, anyway. I thought I once saw TSG using them.
20130612 10:36:00< fabi> LordBob_: We just don't have a leader with no zoc image for the ellipse.
20130612 10:36:59< LordBob_> fabi: surely this can be fixed 
20130612 10:38:57< LordBob_> I might try & come up with different ellipses while I'm at it. I'm not fond of the leader ellipse, and the no-zoc either
20130612 10:39:03< shadowm> I am not a fan of these pointy non-ellipses, but I'll --
20130612 10:42:28< fabi> shadowm: If you have suggestions regarding the artwork, now is the time to speak up and tell LordBob_ what you think.
20130612 10:42:51< LordBob_> Indeed :)
20130612 10:43:16< shadowm> I don't have a problem with the no-zoc ellipse. It's just the pointy leader and hero ellipses that I don't really like.
20130612 10:43:42< shadowm> I remember that very early during IftU's development (2007) I decided to use the hero ellipses for a while and decided I didn't like them after a while.
20130612 10:44:13< shadowm> But while testing AI0867's changes earlier I noticed that all ellipses might be hard to see against certain terrains when not selected.
20130612 10:45:09< shadowm> e.g. blue ellipses on human castle hexes.
20130612 10:45:36< shadowm> I don't really know what can be done about that though.
20130612 10:46:20< fabi> Let's make them blink like a pharmacy in france!
20130612 10:46:41< shadowm> I'd probably end up disabling them in that case.
20130612 10:47:32< shadowm> In fact, things look much cleaner when disabling ellipses in preferences, but of course not all units can use team color bits (e.g. wild animals), so it's not an option for everyone.
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20130612 10:47:58< fabi> shadowm: And much units have only a few pixels of TC.
20130612 10:49:41< LordBob_> "fabi: Let's make them blink like a pharmacy in france!" > is that a german saying ? ôo
20130612 10:50:01< fabi> LordBob_: Yes, at least in the Saarland.
20130612 10:50:02< shadowm> Also, someone said that the orange orb looks too red or something.
20130612 10:50:23< shadowm> I don't remember who or at what time and I have a migraine atm, so I'm leaving.
20130612 10:50:36< LordBob_> It was AI0867, I think
20130612 10:50:51< LordBob_> I'm still adjusting the palette anyway
20130612 10:50:57< fabi> It was me.
20130612 10:51:31< fabi> But it got better with the latest version.
20130612 10:52:15< LordBob_> "20130612 01:29:03< AI0867> the orange orb is perhaps too red
20130612 10:52:15< LordBob_> 20130612 01:29:20< AI0867> difficult to distinguish between "no moves left" and "some moves left"
20130612 10:52:44< fabi> Ah yes, I think I told you in a private chat.
20130612 10:52:56< LordBob_> However, I don't know if that was before or after he saw the latest orb
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20130612 11:08:06< irker766> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth-old:master 6138fe / images/misc/ (18 files): Removed old selection border images and selection2 transparent images http://git.io/8RNpDA
20130612 11:08:09< irker766> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth-old:master 6261ca / images/misc/ (27 files): Renamed selection2* images to selection* and selection3* to selection2* http://git.io/rlQSzg
20130612 11:08:12< irker766> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth-old:master aec788 / images/ (36 files in 2 dirs): Moved selection images to images/dialogs http://git.io/aZtxsg
20130612 11:08:15< irker766> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth-old:master fab74c / / (5 files in 4 dirs): Updated imagepaths to selection border images http://git.io/-0c0FA
20130612 11:08:18< irker766> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth-old:master 5a35bc / data/gui/default/widget/toggle_panel_wml_message.cfg: Used opacity IPF (value 65%) for wml message tp border, and grayscale IPF for di http://git.io/gDKB2g
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20130612 11:14:25< irker766> wesnoth: Emilien Rotival wesnoth-old:master acbc39 / data/core/team-colors.cfg: Adjust "bright orange" and "light blue" TCs for "ally" and "partly moved" orbs http://git.io/CGkhrQ
20130612 11:15:24< LordBob_> fabi: still around ?
20130612 11:15:32< fabi> LordBob_: yes
20130612 11:15:59< LordBob_> you wanted to explain a few things on debug mode: now might be a good time
20130612 11:16:41< fabi> LordBob_: Indeed. Okay, in the game (in a scenario) you can press shift+: to bring up a ingame console.
20130612 11:17:22< fabi> LordBob_: Confirmed?
20130612 11:17:44< LordBob_> yup
20130612 11:17:54< fabi> type "debug" and press enter
20130612 11:18:24< LordBob_> "could find label or unit containing the string 'debug'
20130612 11:19:00< fabi> uh
20130612 11:19:16< LordBob_> In fact, what I am loking at is a "search" CL
20130612 11:19:30< LordBob_> is this what you expect ?
20130612 11:19:48< fabi> the search is provided by the operating system?
20130612 11:19:57< fabi> And bound to shift+: ?
20130612 11:20:02< vultraz_laptop> no, it should say "command"
20130612 11:20:31< vultraz_laptop> you don't press +. you press "shift" and "colon"
20130612 11:21:23< LordBob_> shift +',' or ";" does'nt produce any result,
20130612 11:21:39< LordBob_> could it be an azerty keyboard matter ?
20130612 11:21:40< vultraz_laptop> : not ;
20130612 11:21:57< vultraz_laptop> and press at the same time
20130612 11:23:11< fabi> LordBob_: Just open the preferences and look in the hotkeys subdialog how it is bound.
20130612 11:25:56< LordBob_> fabi: I see a number of options in there, but none that refers to a console
20130612 11:26:19< fabi> "Enter User Command" in General
20130612 11:26:33< fabi> No idea why it is in General, it should be in Game.
20130612 11:27:00< LordBob_> Ah, got it. Somehow, it's just ':', no shift
20130612 11:27:10< LordBob_> so
20130612 11:27:15< LordBob_> let's debug
20130612 11:27:26< fabi> LordBob_: Yes, my fault. With German layout you need shift to get a ":".
20130612 11:27:51< fabi> LordBob_: You will notice some more commands in the right click context menu after debug is enabled.
20130612 11:29:06< LordBob_> sweet
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20130612 11:29:54 * LordBob_ enters cheat mode :p
20130612 11:30:17< fabi> LordBob_: try "cl" on the command line after you enabled debug.
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20130612 11:30:56< LordBob_> fabi: opens up a list of scenarios
20130612 11:30:56< fabi> LordBob_: select one!
20130612 11:31:06< LordBob_> In fac,, they're the whole campaign ôo
20130612 11:34:56< fabi> LordBob_: Just "n" skips to the next (or default next) scenario.
20130612 11:36:57< LordBob_> Ok, so a good way of getting a quick overview of a campaign and test new units
20130612 11:37:15< fabi> LordBob_: Or the ellipses on different backgrounds.
20130612 11:37:35< fabi> LordBob_: You can also change the side of a unit and thus its team color.
20130612 11:37:43< LordBob_> fabi: how about the test scenario you mentioned yesterday....can I access it ingame ?
20130612 11:38:13< fabi> LordBob_: Not that I know of. The commandline switch is the only option afaik.
20130612 11:38:40< vultraz_laptop> LordBob_: you said the selection3 images (now selection2) were for hovered states?
20130612 11:39:14< LordBob_> fabi : ah. do I give this command from any directory within the repo, or from wherever the latest build is located ?
20130612 11:39:32< LordBob_> vultraz_laptop: "meant for", though not implemented yet.
20130612 11:39:59< vultraz_laptop> I think I could do that easily for GUI2. Dunno about GUI1, though
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20130612 11:40:30< LordBob_> vultraz_laptop: part of the problem, I think, was that the GUI system doesn't handle easily two different kind of selectors. Better ask fabi, though
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20130612 11:40:34< travis-ci> [travis-ci] wesnoth/wesnoth-old#28 (master - 5a35bc4 : Charles Dang): The build passed.
20130612 11:40:34< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/compare/2b1c2f24d426...5a35bc4b7417
20130612 11:40:34< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/builds/8009800
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20130612 11:40:52< vultraz_laptop> fabi?
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20130612 11:41:28< travis-ci> [travis-ci] wesnoth/wesnoth-old#29 (master - acbc39a : Emilien Rotival): The build passed.
20130612 11:41:28< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/compare/5a35bc4b7417...acbc39addaa0
20130612 11:41:28< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/builds/8009915
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20130612 11:41:44< fabi> vultraz_laptop: I don't know the context.
20130612 11:41:57< bumbadadabum> What is this travis-ci thing?
20130612 11:42:13< vultraz_laptop> bumbadadabum: tests commits and see if they build
20130612 11:42:20< bumbadadabum> ok
20130612 11:42:37< flix> Crab_: Hello! I have a couple of questions, but not much time right now. So I will send you an e-mail later. Will you read it when I reply to your comments on github?
20130612 11:42:49< LordBob_> fabi: remember the editor's ToD selection menu, for examplle ?  
20130612 11:42:52< fabi> LordBob_: My build system just produces a "wesnoth" or "wesnoth-debug" binary in the toplevel.
20130612 11:43:21< Crab_> flix: hello! yes, I should get email notifications about your github replies
20130612 11:43:21< bumbadadabum> ^ mine too
20130612 11:43:28< fabi> toplevel = the dir where data or images can be found.
20130612 11:43:46< LordBob_> fabi: in this menu, the selector shows hovered over options, and a radiobox button shows the currently-selected option 
20130612 11:43:53< fabi> from there I can start it with "./wesnoth-debug -t"
20130612 11:43:54< bumbadadabum> and then just ./wesnoth to launch it
20130612 11:43:58< vultraz_laptop> mine sticks an .app in projectfiles/XCode/build/Debug/Wesnoth.app
20130612 11:44:43< fabi> LordBob_: Ah yes.
20130612 11:44:51< vultraz_laptop> LordBob_: actually, yeah, I think I understand the problem
20130612 11:45:04< vultraz_laptop> with the checkbox, it's working on a single widget
20130612 11:45:15< LordBob_> fabi: because this wasn't the cleanest way, I produced artwork for an alternate selector, so that the currently-selected option in such menus could be highlighted in a different manner; that's the "formerly) selection2 set
20130612 11:45:17< vultraz_laptop> this would involve working on different rows of the listbox
20130612 11:45:39< LordBob_> er, formerly selection3, now selection2
20130612 11:46:01< fabi> LordBob_: I remember. We talked about that it could replace the current way of marking a selection with radiobuttons.
20130612 11:46:19< bumbadadabum> hmm
20130612 11:46:27< bumbadadabum> ccache doesn't seem to be working anymore
20130612 11:47:02< LordBob_> fabi:  Absolutely. Since you guys have all the information now, I'll let you sort it out and return to crowns and ellipses
20130612 11:47:30< fabi> LordBob_: Did you manage to start the test scenario?
20130612 11:48:18< fabi> vultraz_laptop: What is the MacOSX way of giving commandline arguments to applikations?
20130612 11:48:29< bumbadadabum> fabi: just adding it after
20130612 11:48:46< vultraz_laptop> fabi: just like linux
20130612 11:48:57< bumbadadabum> it's the same terminal
20130612 11:49:33< fabi> I guess LordBob_ starts the build result with some click gui.
20130612 11:49:48< LordBob_> vultraz: what's the command for running the app from CL in OSX ?
20130612 11:50:16< LordBob_> fabi: I do a "build & run" with XCode each time
20130612 11:50:40< vultraz_laptop> LordBob_: cd into "projectfiles/Xcode/build/Debug/Wesnoth.app/Contents/MacOS"
20130612 11:50:44< fabi> LordBob_: Then most likely you can also tell xcode with parameters to add.
20130612 11:50:59< fabi> s/with/which
20130612 11:50:59< vultraz_laptop> LordBob_: run "./wesnoth --anyoptionsyouwanthere"
20130612 11:51:20< vultraz_laptop> LordBob_: that is, if you have a debug build
20130612 11:53:08< LordBob_> vultraz_laptop:: the command line doesn't recognize "wesnoth" as a bash commmand. I think I need a keyword like "run" or something
20130612 11:53:22< vultraz_laptop> no
20130612 11:53:26< vultraz_laptop> "./wesnoth"
20130612 11:53:30< vultraz_laptop> you need the "./"
20130612 11:53:37< flix> Crab_: okay. One more thing: After I submitted pl_koleks patch with the conversions from [target] to [goal], mattsc, anonymissimus and me, we discussed if it is maybe better to remove the wml-tag [protect_my_unit] since it is redundant. Could you have a look at todays log beginning from midnight? We need your opinion on this :)
20130612 11:54:19< fabi> LordBob_: Maybe it is called wesnoth-debug if you are doing a debug build.
20130612 11:54:39< vultraz_laptop> fabi: no
20130612 11:54:40< LordBob_> vultraz_laptop, fabi : ok, got it to work his time
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20130612 12:09:55< Crab_> flix: I'll take a look now
20130612 12:11:06< Crab_> [protect_my_unit] was made for easier use in macros, which might not know the current side
20130612 12:12:26< Crab_> flix: it's ok to remove it. however, the procedure needs to be followed:  deprecate it with a warning message 'will be removed in version X', then, later, remove in version X, where X = current version + 2 minor releases. bonus points if there's wmllint support
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20130612 12:23:12< LordBob_> fabi: I'm done with the new leader/hero/loyal crowns and orb, however but they go beyond the borders of the hex, which causes a glitch when the nearby hex is refreshed by a unit movement. 
20130612 12:24:17< LordBob_> fabi: however, cranking them inside the hex won't look too good.
20130612 12:24:38< fabi> LordBob_: Can I see a screenshot?
20130612 12:24:39< LordBob_> fabi: do you know if there can be a fix for this
20130612 12:24:51< LordBob_> I'll try and make one shortly
20130612 12:25:39< fabi> LordBob_: How is the glitch produced? Just moving into a neighboring hex?
20130612 12:30:52< LordBob_> fabi: https://www.dropbox.com/s/f39h08thcwvcsq7/glitch.jpg
20130612 12:31:12< LordBob_> fabi: even hovering the mouse cursor over the nearby hex is enough
20130612 12:33:04< LordBob_> fabi: I can alter the artwork so that every thing fits within the hex, if it's too much trouble to work around this kind of problems
20130612 12:33:43< bumbadadabum> LordBob_, fabi: I don't like the new green 'golden hex'
20130612 12:34:03< bumbadadabum> It could be a little less bright green
20130612 12:34:05< bumbadadabum> a bit darker
20130612 12:35:09< LordBob_> bumbadadabum: the cursor update wasn't part of our UI effort,
20130612 12:35:33< LordBob_> Which doesn't mean I can' t update it, mind.
20130612 12:35:41< bumbadadabum> then who did it?
20130612 12:35:51< bumbadadabum> wesbot: seen mattsc
20130612 12:35:51< wesbot> bumbadadabum: The person with the nick mattsc last spoke 10h 18m ago.  10h 10m ago was here and on the channel #wesnoth-umc-dev with the message: Quit: Ciao
20130612 12:36:21< fabi> bumbadadabum: I bet AI0867 wired it in.
20130612 12:36:27< vultraz_laptop> bumbadadabum: AI0867 
20130612 12:36:33< bumbadadabum> ok
20130612 12:36:46< vultraz_laptop> it was a long standing FR
20130612 12:37:13< LordBob_> bumbadadabum: however, the artwork has been lying around for ages and can be easily modified
20130612 12:37:24< bumbadadabum> LordBob_: Ok
20130612 12:37:55< LordBob_> We just want it bright enough so that the next person won't be complaining about how it blends in the grass tiles
20130612 12:39:47< bumbadadabum> now it's a little too bright IMO	
20130612 12:40:10< bumbadadabum> 20130612 12:36:52 error display: could not open image 'misc/ellipse-nozoc-leader-selected-top.png'
20130612 12:40:11< bumbadadabum> 20130612 12:36:52 error display: could not open image 'misc/ellipse-nozoc-leader-selected-bottom.png'
20130612 12:40:19< bumbadadabum> I'm getting this error with a level 0 leader
20130612 12:40:44< LordBob_> yup, I know. The artwork was simply never made
20130612 12:40:47< vultraz_laptop> bumbadadabum: known
20130612 12:40:53< LordBob_> I'm going to take care of it as well
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20130612 12:47:37< thunderstruck> Crab_: Hi! FYI, there is actually a bug in a config manager's helper class :( . It causes a corrupt config in case of "return;" in load_game_cfg(). I found out that using a pointer for game_config_ instead of reference fixes the bug. But I can't tell why. Might it be something with initialization list?
20130612 12:48:04< thunderstruck> By "game_config_", I mean a member variable inside helper class.
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20130612 12:55:11< fabi> LordBob_: I can try to fix the drawing issue, please commit your changes to give me a testcase.
20130612 12:56:59< fabi> LordBob_: A blue hex field is missing, still we could handle all non attack hex field overlays with some color shift technique.
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20130612 13:17:47< _Coffee> hi bumbadadabum
20130612 13:17:57< bumbadadabum> Hello _Coffee
20130612 13:18:03< _Coffee> responding a bit late to your hello earlier :P
20130612 13:18:40< _Coffee> I've been busy and waiting around for the git transition to happen before really doing much
20130612 13:18:41< vultraz_laptop> LordBob_: what are the different opacity translucent* images in images/dialogs/ for?
20130612 13:19:11< bumbadadabum> _Coffee: Are you back for real now?
20130612 13:19:33< _Coffee> bumbadadabum: yeah
20130612 13:19:47< _Coffee> I suppose I should update my status when I go away to do other things
20130612 13:19:47< vultraz_laptop> LordBob_: I thought the default for trannsparent/lucent images was 65
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20130612 13:20:27< _Coffee> bumbadadabum: I might go put that forum post in for the animation timings
20130612 13:20:42< bumbadadabum> _Coffee: Yeah, that's a good idea
20130612 13:21:55< vultraz_laptop> LordBob_: seems only 54 and 65 are used, with two cases  of 80
20130612 13:23:33< vultraz_laptop> LordBob_: dunno what the point of having 50,55,60,70,75,and 85 around for is
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20130612 13:26:22< vultraz_laptop> LordBob_: hm, seems only variations based on background
20130612 13:26:34< vultraz_laptop> aren't used*
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20130612 13:38:36< fabi> hi dailin
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20130612 13:52:36< bumbadadabum> _Coffee: You've created the thread, nice.
20130612 13:52:55< _Coffee> bumbadadabum: yeah, I thought it was about time to do it :D
20130612 13:54:40< _Coffee> I remembered to mention you in there as well for your earlier help
20130612 13:56:33-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@124.109.10.167] has joined #wesnoth-dev
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20130612 13:56:57< bumbadadabum> ^_^
20130612 14:01:15< fabi> LordBob_: ping
20130612 14:02:20< LordBob_> fabi, vultraz : back
20130612 14:02:43< fabi> LordBob_: I have asked dailin to join this channel and he did so.
20130612 14:04:31< LordBob_> vultraz: I thing they were varying transparency backgrounds meant for the message box before the IPF were available (or before anyone considered using them)
20130612 14:04:38< LordBob_> s/thing/think
20130612 14:04:57< LordBob_> hello dailin, and welcome to the dev channel
20130612 14:07:45< LordBob_> vultraz: either way, it does seem a lot more logical to use the image path functions for any similar situations
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20130612 15:14:14< LordBob_> fabi; what do you mean by 'a blue hex field' ?
20130612 15:15:37< fabi> LordBob_: AI0867 wired in different hex field frames for enemy and owned units.
20130612 15:16:04< fabi> LordBob_: Instead of the golden frame we used before for everything.
20130612 15:16:15< fabi> LordBob_: But there is no blue frame for allied units.
20130612 15:17:03< LordBob_> Oh. Right. Should I submit a blue hex, or a TCable one maybe ?
20130612 15:18:54< fabi> LordBob_: I prefer the team colorable.
20130612 15:19:06< LordBob_> On a side note, we're starting to have much redundancy in team/size indicators. Hex cursor color, ellipse, orb, sprite color, ...
20130612 15:19:48< LordBob_> not size. side
20130612 15:20:27< fabi> Do you consider it a problem?
20130612 15:21:08< LordBob_> It may become one if there are so many indicators that the sprite gets buried under them
20130612 15:22:53< LordBob_> re: the cursor, team colorable or not I will probably still make them in different shapes. Shape plays a great part in differentiating stuff
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20130612 15:23:49< fabi> LordBob_: A different shape for each side?
20130612 15:24:20< fabi> LordBob_: That would be incredible cool for color blind people.
20130612 15:25:09< LordBob_> fabi: maybe three shapes: neutral (or when no unit is hovered over), friend, foe
20130612 15:25:47< LordBob_> we'll let color discriminate between the player's own units and allied units.
20130612 15:27:00< fabi> LordBob_: Sorry, I thought of different shaped elipses for the sides.
20130612 15:28:14< LordBob_> Hm... This could be a real success, but also lead to much confusion
20130612 15:28:36< fabi> Maybe optional, but imagine you are color blind.
20130612 15:28:40< mattsc> bumbadadabum: you were looking for me?
20130612 15:28:43< fabi> How do you see which side a unit is on?
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20130612 15:29:40< fabi> LordBob_: But different shapes for the hex frames is a good idea as well.
20130612 15:30:14< LordBob_> fabi; that would mean coming up with 9 different shapes and a clear leader +/- no zoc for each one of them 
20130612 15:30:32< fabi> 9?
20130612 15:30:46< LordBob_> can there not be up to 9 sides in a game ?
20130612 15:30:50< vultraz_laptop> LordBob_: ugh, mac crashed. may I remove the unused translucent_background images?
20130612 15:31:02< LordBob_> Or did you mean side as in ally/foe, here ?
20130612 15:31:15< bumbadadabum> LordBob_: There can be as many sides as you want
20130612 15:31:19< fabi> LordBob_: Yes, even more. I don't think there is a limit beyond the integer size. 
20130612 15:31:27< bumbadadabum> mattsc: Yes.
20130612 15:31:40< bumbadadabum> The rusher recruitment is giving me an error as of today
20130612 15:31:42< fabi> LordBob_: 2 to the power of 32
20130612 15:31:53< vultraz_laptop> bumbadadabum: did you ask mattsc about [macro_ai]s in [side]?
20130612 15:32:08< LordBob_> fabi: which is exactly why coming up with 2^32 kinds of ellipses sounds like too much 
20130612 15:32:18< bumbadadabum> mattsc: 
20130612 15:32:19< bumbadadabum> 20130612 12:41:18 error scripting/lua: ...sktop/wesnoth-old/data/ai/lua/generic-recruit_engine.lua:154: attempt to perform arithmetic on field 'multiply' (a nil value)
20130612 15:32:21< bumbadadabum> stack traceback:
20130612 15:32:22< bumbadadabum>         ...sktop/wesnoth-old/data/ai/lua/generic-recruit_engine.lua:154: in function 'get_best_attack'
20130612 15:32:24< bumbadadabum>         ...sktop/wesnoth-old/data/ai/lua/generic-recruit_engine.lua:244: in function 'analyze_enemy_unit'
20130612 15:32:25< bumbadadabum>         ...sktop/wesnoth-old/data/ai/lua/generic-recruit_engine.lua:436: in function <...sktop/wesnoth-old/data/ai/lua/generic-recruit_engine.lua:408>
20130612 15:32:27< bumbadadabum>         (...tail calls...)
20130612 15:32:28< bumbadadabum>         [string "(...):rusher_recruit_exec({ ["randomness"] = ..."]:1: in main chunk
20130612 15:32:34< fabi> LordBob_: Yes, well their colors repeat as well beyond 9.
20130612 15:32:49< bumbadadabum> fabi: They all turn into black after that IIRC
20130612 15:32:55< bumbadadabum> not repeat
20130612 15:33:03< vultraz_laptop> fabi: they all go black
20130612 15:33:10< vultraz_laptop> fabi: there's a case in AtS where that happens
20130612 15:33:25< mattsc> bumbadadabum: argh.  That's something I changed recently to fix another bug.  Apparently I did it incorrectly.  I'll look into it.  Thanks.
20130612 15:33:46< vultraz_laptop> mattsc: are [macro_ai]s not supported in [side]?
20130612 15:34:13< mattsc> vultraz: no, they are action WML.
20130612 15:34:27< bumbadadabum> I've never heard of [macro_ai], but [micro_ai] isn't supported
20130612 15:34:33< mattsc> vultraz_laptop: ^
20130612 15:34:48< mattsc> bumbadadabum: I figured that's what vultraz_laptop meant.
20130612 15:35:21< vultraz_laptop> mattsc: well, it would kinda be nice to have them able to be defined in [side], like with the regular [ai] tag
20130612 15:35:50< LordBob_> vultraz_laptop: yes, you may remove obsolete backgrounds like we've discussed earlier, but make sure to provide a substitute with the ImagePath functions where necessary
20130612 15:36:08< vultraz_laptop> LordBob_: I'm not going to delete any that are being used
20130612 15:36:33< bumbadadabum> vultraz_laptop: I personally think it's fine right now
20130612 15:36:38< bumbadadabum> you can just use it in a prestart
20130612 15:36:56< bumbadadabum> eventually between side definitions
20130612 15:37:15< vultraz_laptop> bumbadadabum: I find that a bit clunky. Extra trouble just to assign an ai, when the other ai's can be done in [side]
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20130612 15:37:37< LordBob_> vultraz_laptop: it would still be a good idea to do with these dialogs backgrounds what you've already done with the sidebars and buttons
20130612 15:37:37< vultraz_laptop> bumbadadabum: unless the [micro_ai]s are shortcuts to stuff you can set in a [side]'s default [ai] tag?
20130612 15:38:04< mattsc> vultraz_laptop: Unfortunately, I'm not sure that this is possible since they are written in Lua and use wesnoth.wml_actions
20130612 15:38:17< vultraz_laptop> LordBob_: I cannot do it on all of them, since it they feature some elements at 100% opacity
20130612 15:38:58< vultraz_laptop> LordBob_: I could only do it on the background images, but for that I'd need one committed at 100% opacity
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20130612 15:40:17< mattsc> bumbadadabum: actually, what you found is not an error I introduced.  Phew.  :)  
20130612 15:40:25< LordBob_> Oh well, do it as you see fit
20130612 15:40:51< bumbadadabum> mattsc: Then what is it?
20130612 15:40:54< mattsc> bumbadadabum: is this with a custom unit that has a "defense" special?
20130612 15:41:00< bumbadadabum> because it worked fine yesterday
20130612 15:41:15< mattsc> bumbadadabum: well, I didn't make any changes since yesterday anyway.  :)
20130612 15:41:22< bumbadadabum> mattsc: something that alters terrain defense?
20130612 15:41:31< bumbadadabum> or something like steadfast?
20130612 15:43:20< mattsc> bumbadadabum: this happens in a part of the code that is supposed to deal with things like backstab or charge.  But it checks out anything that is set up through [special][defense].
20130612 15:43:57< bumbadadabum> There's a unit with backstab
20130612 15:44:07< mattsc> And if there's a unit with that tag, but without the "multiply=", then you get the error.  So my guess is that you have a unit like that when you tried this.
20130612 15:44:19< LordBob_> fabi: I feel that the ellipses are a lot of effort for little gain, right now. They could be part of a wider effort to make the game friendlier to color-blind people (no doubt there is more than just those ellipses at stake), though.
20130612 15:44:43< mattsc> Anyways, it's clearly a bug in generic_recruit_engine.lua, so I'll take care of it.  Unless Alarantalara wants to.  :)
20130612 15:48:37< fabi> LordBob_: Okay, then let's delay that.
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20130612 15:49:36< irker332> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth-old:master cd7728 / images/dialogs/ (7 files): Removed unused translucent-background images http://git.io/ucM5oQ
20130612 15:52:06< AI0867> shadowm: I expected hero/leader issues, but I completely forgot about nozoc leaders
20130612 15:52:30< LordBob_> fabi: it doesn't mean we shouldn't do it. But coming up with all those different shapes is something I would rather do slowly as a background task
20130612 15:53:07< fabi> LordBob_: Sure, no problem.
20130612 15:53:14< AI0867> 07:29 < vultraz> I would think a better solution would be to expand that behavior to all states <-- I think that's turned off for stable branches and nobody turned it back on for 1.11
20130612 15:53:20< LordBob_> fabi: we have enough on our plate at the moment with the terrain types, unit box, icon-based display, tods, ... ;)
20130612 15:53:28< fabi> indeed
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20130612 16:01:47< irker332> wesnoth: Emilien Rotival wesnoth-old:master 505fdf / / (6 files in 2 dirs): New artwork for the on-map unit status http://git.io/RUy99Q
20130612 16:02:06< LordBob_> fabi:  I've committed the new artwork
20130612 16:02:15< fabi> tx
20130612 16:03:09< LordBob_> fabi: I think the glitch I mentionned earlier might be amatter of layering: after a few more test, it turns out that it doesn't happen when the unit is in a keep, for instance
20130612 16:03:19< LordBob_> *a matter
20130612 16:04:00< AI0867> 15:35 < vultraz_laptop> mattsc: well, it would kinda be nice to have them able to be defined in [side], like with the regular [ai] tag <-- that's nice, but that doesn't make actionWML usable in [sides]
20130612 16:04:25< AI0867> s/\[sides\]/[side]s/
20130612 16:05:04< fabi> LordBob_: I have an idea where to look for the glitch :-)
20130612 16:05:37< LordBob_> You da man 8)
20130612 16:07:01< fabi> rofl
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20130612 16:13:15< vultraz_laptop> AI0867: can I remove the black bg from the version label on the titlescreen? I think it was there because the text would have been unreadable on the old map, but it's nice on the new wooden background
20130612 16:13:43< AI0867> I have no idea
20130612 16:14:14< AI0867> you could very well be right though
20130612 16:15:38< vultraz_laptop> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/95558676/version_label_wo_bg.png
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20130612 16:16:18< AI0867> looks good to me
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20130612 16:17:12< LordBob_> vultraz_laptop: for improved readability, the text could have a cast shadow
20130612 16:17:40< LordBob_> same result, more discrete than the background
20130612 16:17:51< vultraz_laptop> not sure GUI2 text supports that :/
20130612 16:18:10< LordBob_> It's worth a look
20130612 16:18:19< vultraz_laptop> hm...I have an idea
20130612 16:21:40< LordBob_> bumbadadabum: in the animation WML you provided yesterday, the attacks in [attack-anim] > [filter_attack] are filtered with range=melee/ranged, whereas the current unit.cfg filters with name=fist/mud glob. Which should I keep ?
20130612 16:21:58< LordBob_> (for the giant mudcrawler)
20130612 16:22:01< bumbadadabum> LordBob_: it doesn't matter
20130612 16:22:11< bumbadadabum> the only melee attack is the fist
20130612 16:22:16< bumbadadabum> and ranged attack the mud glob
20130612 16:24:12< bumbadadabum> so keep which one you like better
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20130612 16:26:54< travis-ci> [travis-ci] wesnoth/wesnoth-old#30 (master - cd7728e : Charles Dang): The build passed.
20130612 16:26:54< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/compare/acbc39addaa0...cd7728e60b26
20130612 16:26:54< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/builds/8017088
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20130612 16:27:23< vultraz_laptop> LordBob_: is black 255 or 0? I'm mixed up...
20130612 16:28:48< LordBob_> 0
20130612 16:29:02< LordBob_> in RGB, that is
20130612 16:29:44< LordBob_> (in CMJN, it's the opposite: the more ink, the darker the color. not that it matters here)
20130612 16:32:09 * vultraz_laptop is trying to simulate a text shadow by drawing the same text underneath at a darker color with a small offset
20130612 16:32:34< LordBob_> Hmm...Don't bother if the effect doesn't exist
20130612 16:33:35< LordBob_> Well, unless you've already got it working... But it's fiddling
20130612 16:34:49< vultraz_laptop> hmmm
20130612 16:35:23< vultraz_laptop> yeah, this ends out ugly
20130612 16:35:34< vultraz_laptop> plain white text it is
20130612 16:36:33< vultraz_laptop> The two texts do gets drawn, but the text is so thin it doesn't look like a shadow and more like a gray mess
20130612 16:37:29< vultraz_laptop> get*
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20130612 17:34:15< irker332> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth-old:master f8be6c / data/gui/default/widget/label_title_screen_revision.cfg: Removed bg from titlescreen version label. It reads fine against the main wooden http://git.io/0SAd1A
20130612 17:34:18< irker332> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth-old:master 81aac6 / images/dialogs/translucent-background_80.png: Removed image previously used for titlescreen version label bg http://git.io/rsPDYQ
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20130612 17:42:06< vultraz_laptop> .....
20130612 17:44:20< AI0867> fabi: how do I see the orb-colored minimap?
20130612 17:44:43< AI0867> unrelated: why is the "show ellipses" preference called "show team colors"?
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20130612 18:07:24< zookeeper> AI0867, no reason
20130612 18:07:44< zookeeper> dates back to the times before TC, i think
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20130612 18:15:00< travis-ci> [travis-ci] wesnoth/wesnoth-old#32 (master - 81aac64 : Charles Dang): The build passed.
20130612 18:15:00< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/compare/505fdfb73ee6...81aac64fc2e3
20130612 18:15:00< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/builds/8020986
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20130612 18:22:39< AI0867> vultraz: can the partial transparency stuff now be generated with imagepath functions?
20130612 18:24:01< vultraz_laptop> AI0867: yes, no more need for transparent versions of images. Just use ~O(65%)
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20130612 21:29:57< fabi> AI0867: It is a hotkey action. Just bind any key to the action called "Toggle minimap color coding".
20130612 21:30:40< fabi> AI0867: Or use the new unit_box theme, it features a button beside the minimap. But be warned, the unit_box theme is very experimental.
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20130612 22:27:36< thunderstruck> Crab_: Hi. I saw that you just left some comments. So in case you didn't notice, I just pushed one more commit.
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20130612 22:56:15< shadowm> vultraz_laptop: Don't remove the black background from the version label in the titlescreen.
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--- Log closed Thu Jun 13 00:00:12 2013