--- Log opened Fri Jun 14 00:00:19 2013
20130614 00:03:19< fabi> zookeeper: Have you ever been at the FOSDEM?
20130614 00:03:23< zookeeper> nope
20130614 00:03:55< fabi> zookeeper: What a pity, don't you like to join us some year? We have a lot of fun.
20130614 00:04:16< fabi> zookeeper: And I really would like to meet you in person some day.
20130614 00:04:39< zookeeper> why would you want to meet me specifically? :x
20130614 00:05:20< fabi> zookeeper: You helped me the most in my first time with the project. Without you, I would not have joined.
20130614 00:05:37< zookeeper> oh. what did i help you with? :P
20130614 00:05:45< fabi> Mostly WML.
20130614 00:06:15< zookeeper> i guess that was a long time ago then :>
20130614 00:06:57< fabi> 2004
20130614 00:07:17< fabi> And again when I tuned LoW for mainline.
20130614 00:08:45-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-23-20-32-120.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 00:08:45< travis-ci> [travis-ci] wesnoth/wesnoth-old#38 (master - 8965c46 : fendrin): The build passed.
20130614 00:08:45< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/compare/bf3517d1e47d...8965c46d3e24
20130614 00:08:45< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/builds/8067989
20130614 00:08:45-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-23-20-32-120.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20130614 00:09:29< zookeeper> i've sometimes mused about going to FOSDEM, although i've usually figured i'd do it incognito :p
20130614 00:10:39< fabi> zookeeper: I missed the first FOSDEM in my time as a developer because I considered it more of a coders freak show. But that prediction didn't hold. Or maybe I am just the right kind of freak.
20130614 00:12:56< fabi> zookeeper: And it really makes a huge different if you meet other developers in person. So far every Wesnoth member I met at FOSDEM turned out to be a really nice guy.
20130614 00:15:11< zookeeper> yeah well, meeting people isn't usually my cup of tea
20130614 00:17:48< fabi> zookeeper: Me too. That's why I missed the first.
20130614 00:18:20< fabi> zookeeper: But the fellow Wesnoth developers were the right people to meet without pain.
20130614 00:20:54-!- Gambit [~gambit@wesnoth/developer/grickit] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 00:21:00< zookeeper> i suppose they would be
20130614 00:22:37-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 00:51:45-!- jetrel_laptop [~jetrel_la@67-6-124-109.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: jetrel_laptop]
20130614 00:55:05-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
20130614 01:00:15-!- mjs-de [~mjs-de@g224186119.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20130614 01:03:16-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20130614 01:16:24< elias> i went to fosdem a few times even though i suffer from social anxiety... and somehow survived :)
20130614 01:34:25-!- Upth [~ogmar@108-85-91-228.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 01:34:26-!- Upth is now known as Upthorn
20130614 01:38:31-!- H-Hour [~H-Hour@cpc7-sgyl35-2-0-cust428.18-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20130614 01:42:55-!- Samual_ [diotecktec@c-71-195-88-69.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 01:42:55-!- Samual_ [diotecktec@c-71-195-88-69.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host]
20130614 01:42:55-!- Samual_ [diotecktec@xonotic/core-team/Samual] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 01:44:55-!- Samual [diotecktec@xonotic/core-team/Samual] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
20130614 01:59:17< fabi> elias: hehe
20130614 02:17:21-!- love1cat1 [~Adium@c-98-217-91-242.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 02:19:47-!- love1cat [~Adium@c-98-217-91-242.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20130614 02:50:22-!- irker381 [~irker@ai0867.net] has quit [Quit: transmission timeout]
20130614 02:58:11-!- flix [~flix@178.77.175.34] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 03:15:11-!- shadowm_desktop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 03:31:42-!- Upth [~ogmar@108-85-91-228.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 03:41:12-!- Kexoth [~kex@89.205.70.185] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20130614 03:43:46-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20130614 03:47:47-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 03:53:35-!- Upth [~ogmar@108-85-91-228.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20130614 03:57:59-!- skyfaller [~skyfaller@c-75-67-154-18.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 03:57:59-!- skyfaller [~skyfaller@c-75-67-154-18.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host]
20130614 03:57:59-!- skyfaller [~skyfaller@wikipedia/Skyfaller] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 04:04:10-!- Ivanovic_ [~ivanovic@x2f3bf11.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 04:06:25-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
20130614 04:06:28-!- vultraz_laptop [~chatzilla@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 04:07:07-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@x2f422db.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
20130614 04:08:03-!- Ivanovic_ is now known as Ivanovic
20130614 04:35:56-!- love1cat1 [~Adium@c-98-217-91-242.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20130614 04:39:49-!- Upth [~ogmar@108-85-91-228.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 04:43:31-!- boucman_work [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20130614 05:04:09-!- love1cat1 [~Adium@c-98-217-91-242.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 05:12:58-!- mattsc [~mattsc@d154-20-34-165.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: Ciao]
20130614 05:35:40-!- Blueblaze [~Blueblaze@adsl-99-158-45-47.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Blueblaze]
20130614 05:53:53-!- exciton [chuck-the-@89.208.169.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20130614 05:54:12-!- Gambit [~gambit@wesnoth/developer/grickit] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20130614 05:54:49-!- exciton [chuck-the-@89.208.169.104] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 06:14:57-!- love1cat1 [~Adium@c-98-217-91-242.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
20130614 06:30:16-!- Alarantalara [~Adium@CPEc0c1c09e8055-CM00252eac6d62.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
20130614 07:10:35-!- Gallaecio [~quassel@84.120.219.21.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 07:51:21-!- EliDupree [~quassel@66-189-34-122.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
20130614 08:19:19-!- DHost [~Pcy@sc.plok.fr] has quit [Quit: reboot]
20130614 08:27:03-!- thunderstruck [~thunderst@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust174.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 08:32:49-!- DHost [~Pcy@sc.plok.fr] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 08:41:18-!- lipkab [~lipk@host-91-147-212-174.biatv.hu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 08:42:15-!- LordBob_ [~LordBob_@2a01:e34:ee82:47e0:21e:c2ff:fe01:261f] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 08:53:52-!- Gallaecio [~quassel@84.120.219.21.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20130614 08:55:00-!- boucman_work [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 08:57:07-!- lipkabb [~lipk@host-91-147-212-174.biatv.hu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 08:58:09-!- lipkab [~lipk@host-91-147-212-174.biatv.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20130614 09:13:03-!- skyfaller [~skyfaller@wikipedia/Skyfaller] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20130614 09:13:17-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 09:27:21-!- dailin [~dailin@116.237.39.171] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 09:38:06-!- trademark_ [~trademark@mne69-1-82-67-17-201.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 09:50:43-!- stikonas [~gentoo@128.232.240.234] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 09:50:43-!- stikonas [~gentoo@128.232.240.234] has quit [Changing host]
20130614 09:50:43-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 10:29:14-!- exciton_ [chuck-the-@89.208.169.104] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 10:29:54-!- Smar [smar@freenet/translator/finnish/Smar] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
20130614 10:30:01-!- Smar [smar@nano.smar.fi] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 10:30:01-!- Smar [smar@nano.smar.fi] has quit [Changing host]
20130614 10:30:01-!- Smar [smar@freenet/translator/finnish/Smar] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 10:31:53-!- exciton [chuck-the-@89.208.169.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20130614 10:33:21-!- mjs-de [~mjs-de@g224177021.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 10:37:57-!- boucman_work [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20130614 10:39:54-!- lipkabb [~lipk@host-91-147-212-174.biatv.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20130614 10:40:01-!- lipkabb [~lipk@host-91-147-212-174.biatv.hu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 10:42:12-!- lipkabb [~lipk@host-91-147-212-174.biatv.hu] has quit [Client Quit]
20130614 10:42:23-!- lipkabb [~lipk@host-91-147-212-174.biatv.hu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 10:48:30-!- lipkab [~lipk@host-91-147-212-174.biatv.hu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 10:48:30-!- lipkabb [~lipk@host-91-147-212-174.biatv.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20130614 10:52:42-!- lipkab [~lipk@host-91-147-212-174.biatv.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20130614 11:06:43-!- _Coffee [~david@ppp118-210-24-210.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 11:24:20-!- boucman_work [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 11:31:46-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20130614 11:33:14-!- H-Hour [~H-Hour@cpc7-sgyl35-2-0-cust428.18-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 11:36:49-!- stikonas [~gentoo@128.232.240.234] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 11:36:49-!- stikonas [~gentoo@128.232.240.234] has quit [Changing host]
20130614 11:36:50-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 12:04:48-!- bumbadadabum [~bumba@d155109.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 12:08:29-!- Kexoth [~kex@89.205.70.185] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 12:44:29< LordBob_> bumbadadabum: I've read your comment on the new hero/leader/loyal icons. You're not forgotten, however they're the only ones I've had so far, so I'll wait until others get a chance to comment. And also unti fabi tells wether the crop problem can be fixed.
20130614 12:46:08< vultraz_laptop> LordBob_: I am 90% sure it can
20130614 12:46:26-!- {V} [~V@139-79-ftth.on.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20130614 12:48:34< vultraz_laptop> LordBob_: there was a similar problem with units back in 1.9, but it was fixes
20130614 12:48:43< vultraz_laptop> fixed
20130614 12:48:44< fabi> LordBob_: I think vultraz_laptop is right there. Most likely this can be fixed. I mean, surely it can be fixed, the question is only how much work it is.
20130614 12:50:02< fabi> vultraz_laptop: Can you still find the commit? It would be useful to look at.
20130614 12:50:20< vultraz_laptop> ill look
20130614 12:51:13< LordBob_> fab, vultraz_laptop: indeed, that's going to be the key here. The reason the crowns @orb now overlap the neighbouring hexes is because of purely cosmetic changes. So if it"s too much trouble, I'll revert it.
20130614 12:51:25< LordBob_> fabi: ^
20130614 12:52:01< LordBob_> btw, mudcrawler anims are done
20130614 12:52:09< bumbadadabum> :]
20130614 12:52:26< LordBob_> I'll commit them as soon as I'm sure no blatant mistake slipped in
20130614 12:54:27-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20130614 12:59:32< vultraz_laptop> fabi: this was the bug: https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?19614 it's not exactly what our problem is, but it's similar
20130614 13:00:37-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@x2f3bf11.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Changing host]
20130614 13:00:37-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 13:00:37-!- shadowm_desktop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20130614 13:04:08< fabi> vultraz_laptop: Thanks :-)
20130614 13:04:19< Ivanovic> finally back from the business trip...
20130614 13:04:27< fabi> hi Ivanovic
20130614 13:25:05-!- DCW [~Thunderbi@cpc1-finc14-2-0-cust12.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 13:32:39-!- Dnyarri [dnyarri@hilla.kapsi.fi] has left #wesnoth-dev ["WeeChat 0.3.8"]
20130614 13:41:52< fabi> LordBob_: The unit_box theme got an update.
20130614 13:47:53-!- {V} [~V@139-79-ftth.on.nl] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 13:49:03-!- EdB [~edb@abo-200-11-69.bdx.modulonet.fr] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 13:51:50-!- Crab_ [Crab_@wesnoth/developer/crab] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
20130614 13:53:51-!- EdB [~edb@abo-200-11-69.bdx.modulonet.fr] has quit [Client Quit]
20130614 14:01:18-!- Kexoth [~kex@89.205.70.185] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20130614 14:08:18-!- Blueblaze [~Blueblaze@adsl-99-158-45-47.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 14:22:17-!- DCW [~Thunderbi@cpc1-finc14-2-0-cust12.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20130614 14:40:55-!- EdB [~edb@abo-200-11-69.bdx.modulonet.fr] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 14:57:55-!- EdB [~edb@abo-200-11-69.bdx.modulonet.fr] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
20130614 15:01:26-!- Kexoth [~kex@89.205.70.185] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 15:30:07-!- mattsc [~mattsc@207.230.251.234] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 16:05:46< bumbadadabum> The new outrider still has the old animations
20130614 16:05:52< bumbadadabum> is this intended
20130614 16:06:00< bumbadadabum> because it isn't present with the scout
20130614 16:12:04< vultraz_laptop> don't think it has new anims yet
20130614 16:12:15< bumbadadabum> it doesn't
20130614 16:12:17< bumbadadabum> none of them do
20130614 16:12:23-!- irker387 [~irker@ai0867.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 16:12:23< irker387> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master b6afbf / changelog: Update changelog with AI changes http://git.io/DPABhQ
20130614 16:12:30< bumbadadabum> but the scout just uses the baseframe in the anim
20130614 16:12:32< bumbadadabum> *anims
20130614 16:12:39< bumbadadabum> instead of the old ones
20130614 16:13:28< vultraz_laptop> no idea
20130614 16:13:35< vultraz_laptop> ask Jetrel_new 
20130614 16:16:10-!- lipkab [~lipk@host-91-147-212-174.biatv.hu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 16:16:40-!- mattsc [~mattsc@207.230.251.234] has quit [Quit: I'm asleep]
20130614 16:33:17-!- jetrel_laptop [~jetrel_la@71-220-17-233.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 16:33:38-!- skyfaller [~skyfaller@c-75-67-154-18.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 16:33:38-!- skyfaller [~skyfaller@c-75-67-154-18.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host]
20130614 16:33:38-!- skyfaller [~skyfaller@wikipedia/Skyfaller] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 16:36:43-!- mattsc [~mattsc@fw.hia.nrc.ca] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 16:37:50-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-23-20-102-84.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 16:37:50< travis-ci> [travis-ci] wesnoth/wesnoth-old#39 (master - b6afbf6 : mattsc): The build passed.
20130614 16:37:50< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/compare/8965c46d3e24...b6afbf6e3002
20130614 16:37:50< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/builds/8087717
20130614 16:37:50-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-23-20-102-84.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20130614 16:52:06-!- dailin [~dailin@116.237.39.171] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20130614 17:01:46-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 17:11:45-!- artisticdude [~artisticd@vsat-148-64-186-230.c005.g4.mrt.starband.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 17:31:19-!- boucman_work [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
20130614 17:35:18-!- love1cat [~Adium@c-98-217-91-242.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 17:37:41-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: current repo: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old (Please read the dev-ml for the latest status!) | http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeIdeas | 196 bugs, 333 feature requests, 26 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20130614 17:47:28< irker387> wesnoth: Emilien Rotival wesnoth-old:master 85e4aa / data/core/ (29 files in 2 dirs): New base frame, animations and animation WML for the giant mudcrawler http://git.io/AH_Scw
20130614 17:51:29< vultraz_laptop> yay!
20130614 17:51:38< vultraz_laptop> bumbadadabum: ^
20130614 17:52:12< bumbadadabum> YAY!
20130614 17:52:31-!- happygrue_ [~happygrue@c-66-30-159-137.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 17:52:31-!- happygrue_ [~happygrue@c-66-30-159-137.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host]
20130614 17:52:31-!- happygrue_ [~happygrue@wesnoth/developer/wintermute] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 17:53:00-!- lobby_ [~wesnoth@wesnoth/bot/lobby] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 17:53:00-!- Topic for #wesnoth-dev: current repo: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old (Please read the dev-ml for the latest status!) | http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeIdeas | 196 bugs, 333 feature requests, 26 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20130614 17:53:00-!- Topic set by wesbot [~wesbot@asteria.debian.or.at] [Fri Jun 14 17:37:40 2013]
20130614 17:53:00[Users #wesnoth-dev]
20130614 17:53:00[ _8680_         ] [ elias     ] [ Ivanovic     ] [ love1cat ] [ shikadibot   ] [ Upthorn       ] 
20130614 17:53:00[ _Coffee        ] [ enchilado ] [ iwaim_       ] [ Mara_Jade] [ skyfaller    ] [ vultraz_laptop] 
20130614 17:53:00[ AI0867         ] [ Espreon   ] [ janebot      ] [ mattsc   ] [ Smar         ] [ wesbot        ] 
20130614 17:53:00[ apoi           ] [ esr       ] [ jetrel_laptop] [ melinath ] [ Soliton      ] [ yann          ] 
20130614 17:53:00[ artisticdude   ] [ exciton_  ] [ Jetrel_new   ] [ mjs-de   ] [ stikonas     ] [ zookeeper     ] 
20130614 17:53:00[ balrog         ] [ fabi      ] [ Kexoth       ] [ molgrum_ ] [ stikonas_    ] [ {V}           ] 
20130614 17:53:00[ Blueblaze      ] [ flix      ] [ knotwork     ] [ nurupo   ] [ thunderstruck] 
20130614 17:53:00[ bumbadadabum   ] [ H-Hour    ] [ lipkab       ] [ rei4dan  ] [ timotei_     ] 
20130614 17:53:00[ crimson_penguin] [ happygrue_] [ lobby_       ] [ Rhonda   ] [ ToBeFree     ] 
20130614 17:53:00[ DHost          ] [ Ingmar    ] [ loonycyborg  ] [ Samual_  ] [ trademark_   ] 
20130614 17:53:00[ ejls           ] [ irker387  ] [ LordBob_     ] [ shadowm  ] [ Upth         ] 
20130614 17:53:00-!- Irssi: #wesnoth-dev: Total of 61 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 61 normal]
20130614 17:53:01-!- Espreon_ [~espreon@ai0867.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 17:53:08-!- Channel #wesnoth-dev created Tue Jan 27 06:28:41 2009
20130614 17:53:23-!- ShikadiLord [~ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 17:53:25-!- Espreon_ is now known as Guest87360
20130614 17:53:36-!- shikadibot_ [~shikadi@wesnoth/umc-dev/bot/shikadibot] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 17:53:40-!- Espreon [~espreon@wesnoth/developer/espreon] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe]
20130614 17:53:46-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe]
20130614 17:54:14-!- lipkab [~lipk@host-91-147-212-174.biatv.hu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
20130614 17:54:21-!- Irssi: Join to #wesnoth-dev was synced in 93 secs
20130614 17:57:08-!- shikadibot [~shikadi@wesnoth/umc-dev/bot/shikadibot] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe]
20130614 17:57:08-!- _8680_ [~8680@2002:44e1:f952:0:78af:712e:5d47:b899] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20130614 17:57:18-!- shadowm [~ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20130614 17:58:30-!- lipkab [~lipk@host-91-147-212-174.biatv.hu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 18:00:57< bumbadadabum> LordBob_: I might change the offset of the mudcrawler melee anim
20130614 18:06:32-!- artisticdude [~artisticd@vsat-148-64-186-230.c005.g4.mrt.starband.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.]
20130614 18:06:42-!- lipkab [~lipk@host-91-147-212-174.biatv.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
20130614 18:06:53< bumbadadabum> LordBob_: Try this: http://pastebin.com/M55YY8un
20130614 18:07:54-!- love1cat [~Adium@c-98-217-91-242.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20130614 18:09:16< LordBob_> bumbadadabum: trying it as we speak. What does the offset do, by the way ?
20130614 18:09:40< bumbadadabum> LordBob_: it changes the way the unit slides in the anim
20130614 18:09:58< bumbadadabum> now, it goes only 60% of the hex
20130614 18:10:31< bumbadadabum> I might make it a little more complex
20130614 18:10:38< bumbadadabum> with almost no movement during the windup
20130614 18:10:55< bumbadadabum> what has your preference?
20130614 18:12:55< zookeeper> LordBob_, yeah, in case you weren't aware, the slide in melee animations can be made to work however one wants; you can have a windup where the unit first moves backwards, then accelerates forwards, etc. and non-melee anims can have sliding too.
20130614 18:13:24< bumbadadabum> you can even make a unit go backwards
20130614 18:13:32< LordBob_> Ooo, shiny 8)
20130614 18:13:35< bumbadadabum> for a funny moonwalking anim
20130614 18:13:59< zookeeper> the default of a steady slide forward and then backwards isn't very elegant, so usually one would want a smoother acceleration/deceleration and possibly a short windup or a pause upon impact
20130614 18:14:15< flix> mattsc: hello :) have you read Crab_'s statement to protect_my_unit ?
20130614 18:14:29< zookeeper> quite a few new'ish melee anims do that, so you should be able to find examples
20130614 18:14:37< LordBob_> I might leave that up to the likes of you guys, i.e. someone more at ease than me with those mechanics. But it's good to no the possibility exists
20130614 18:14:50< bumbadadabum> I might do something
20130614 18:15:17< bumbadadabum> uhh, LordBob, what do you think about a small backwards movement during the ranged anim windup?
20130614 18:15:43< mattsc> flix: hi.  You mean in the logs here a day or two ago?  If so, yes.
20130614 18:15:43< LordBob_> bumbadadabum, zookeeper: feel free to propose more similar edits; as I said, I'm really new to animations, so there are many details that I will likely overlook
20130614 18:16:07< LordBob_> bumbadadabum: not for the ranged attack. It wouldn't make sense to have his whole body slide
20130614 18:16:41< LordBob_> bumbadadabum: however, it might work wonders in the wind-up of the melee attack
20130614 18:16:52< bumbadadabum> LordBob_: I thought it might look cool to have his body go backwards a few pixels
20130614 18:17:03< bumbadadabum> yeah, the melee anim, I'm thinking:
20130614 18:17:12< flix> mattsc: yes. So I will add this deprecation message and convert the mainline scenarios.
20130614 18:17:23< mattsc> flix: sounds good
20130614 18:17:52< flix> mattsc: could you write this forum post anonymissimus wrote about?
20130614 18:17:58< bumbadadabum> A little bit backwards during frame 1-4, then go forwards to ~50% between frames 5 and 6, and back during frame 7-11
20130614 18:18:39< mattsc> flix: was that adding it to the thread about syntax-breaking WML changes?
20130614 18:19:03< flix> mattsc: yes, sounds right.
20130614 18:19:28< mattsc> flix: sure, I'll do that.
20130614 18:19:49< flix> mattsc: great :)
20130614 18:20:42-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-23-20-32-120.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 18:20:42< travis-ci> [travis-ci] wesnoth/wesnoth-old#40 (master - 85e4aac : Emilien Rotival): The build passed.
20130614 18:20:42< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/compare/b6afbf6e3002...85e4aac8cc79
20130614 18:20:42< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/builds/8090787
20130614 18:20:42-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-23-20-32-120.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20130614 18:22:35< bumbadadabum> LordBob_: http://pastebin.com/ELBwAiVQ
20130614 18:22:48< bumbadadabum> I feel the forward movement is a bit too fast
20130614 18:23:11< bumbadadabum> maybe you can tell me what you think
20130614 18:25:40< LordBob_> bumbadadabum: the trouble with the ranged anim is that I've already made him arch his back as if he were drawing a deepbreath,  so it's really the upper body that moves. Thus, I think that faving the whole body slide backwards will feel artificial, and may even lose the focus on the part of movement that really matters.
20130614 18:26:08< bumbadadabum> ok
20130614 18:26:19< bumbadadabum> LordBob_:         offset=0.0~-0.1:225,-0.1:125,-0.1~0.4:175,0.4:50,0.4~0.0:325
20130614 18:26:33< bumbadadabum> replace this in my latest paste
20130614 18:26:41< bumbadadabum> and you should get something that looks good enough
20130614 18:26:52< bumbadadabum> Well, I think it looks good, you be the judge
20130614 18:29:51< LordBob_> bumbadadabum: ok, looks fine now
20130614 18:30:02< bumbadadabum> Ok :]
20130614 18:30:05< LordBob_> You can commit the revised cfg
20130614 18:30:16< bumbadadabum> No I can't.
20130614 18:30:36< vultraz_laptop> he doesn't have commit access AFAIK
20130614 18:30:41< bumbadadabum> ^
20130614 18:30:49< bumbadadabum> so you'll have to do it yourself
20130614 18:32:06< LordBob_> Ok
20130614 18:32:43< bumbadadabum> And even if I had access, my lattest attempt at git ended... not so well
20130614 18:33:08< bumbadadabum> so if githubophobia is a thing, I might have a minor case of that
20130614 18:33:48< LordBob_> ^^
20130614 18:36:27< vultraz_laptop> LordBob_: I remember you saying not too long ago that you didn't think you would do well at pixel art :P and yet, look at the mudcrawler :)
20130614 18:37:21< vultraz_laptop> I think it's right on par with jetrel quality-work :)
20130614 18:38:00-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 18:38:07< LordBob_> don't let appearances fool you.
20130614 18:38:35< zookeeper> well, i'm not surprised; a good coder can quickly pick up a new language, so similarly i'd expect a good artist to be able to pick up new styles or mediums
20130614 18:38:45< LordBob_> I might have solid bases because thanks to my other 2D skills, but I've been struggling with that anim for nearly a week
20130614 18:39:16< LordBob_> and I did receive advice from the master himself :p
20130614 18:39:56< irker387> wesnoth: Emilien Rotival wesnoth-old:master e8734b / data/core/units/monsters/Giant_Mudcrawler.cfg: Tweaks to the timing and offset for a fine-tuned anim, courtesy of Bumbadadabum http://git.io/7aYNWA
20130614 18:41:05< bumbadadabum> yay!
20130614 18:41:23< vultraz_laptop> now we just have to wait for zero's scorpion to land :)
20130614 18:42:16-!- EliDupree [~quassel@66-189-34-122.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 18:45:07-!- Gallaecio [~quassel@84.120.219.21.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 18:45:38< vultraz_laptop> and perhaps we can get someone to redo the giant rat
20130614 18:47:46-!- DCW [~Thunderbi@cpc1-finc14-2-0-cust12.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 18:47:53< vultraz_laptop> not really bc the sprite is bad, but because it's kinda small :P
20130614 18:49:54-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20130614 18:50:36< bumbadadabum> IMO the sprite isn't the best either
20130614 18:55:27< vultraz_laptop> yeah
20130614 18:55:40< vultraz_laptop> also the new sea serpent needs anims
20130614 19:05:58-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-23-20-102-84.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 19:05:58< travis-ci> [travis-ci] wesnoth/wesnoth-old#41 (master - e8734b5 : Emilien Rotival): The build passed.
20130614 19:05:58< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/compare/85e4aac8cc79...e8734b54a144
20130614 19:05:58< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/builds/8092274
20130614 19:05:58-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-23-20-102-84.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20130614 19:08:07-!- jetrel_laptop_ [~jetrel_la@71-220-21-194.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 19:08:44-!- jetrel_laptop [~jetrel_la@71-220-17-233.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20130614 19:08:44-!- jetrel_laptop_ is now known as jetrel_laptop
20130614 19:08:45< vultraz_laptop> LordBob_: now that the mudcrawler is done, what are you going to do next?
20130614 19:09:52-!- DCW [~Thunderbi@cpc1-finc14-2-0-cust12.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: DCW]
20130614 19:13:05< LordBob_> resume work on the unitBox theme
20130614 19:17:34< zookeeper> how about defeated asheviere? :>
20130614 19:17:46< LordBob_> oh right, she's still due too
20130614 19:19:07< LordBob_> I'll do that first, yeah. It's about time I finished that portrait gallery 
20130614 19:19:15< zookeeper> oh, cool.
20130614 19:19:31-!- jetrel_laptop_ [~jetrel_la@67-6-109-104.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 19:21:42-!- jetrel_laptop [~jetrel_la@71-220-21-194.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
20130614 19:21:42-!- jetrel_laptop_ is now known as jetrel_laptop
20130614 19:22:15< LordBob_> zookeeper: while we're on the subject fo HttT portraits, have the diverse Delfador portaits been wired in ? I know jetrel committed them, but there are more variants than there used due to the elven outfit, so some extra work might be required 
20130614 19:22:49< zookeeper> LordBob_, no, i haven't done that yet as i haven't even figured out how to commit with git -.-
20130614 19:23:08< bumbadadabum> zookeeper: Have you started?
20130614 19:23:10< zookeeper> it's on my list whenever i get back to doing something useful
20130614 19:23:12< zookeeper> no
20130614 19:23:24< bumbadadabum> Can I take a look?
20130614 19:23:25< zookeeper> if anyone else wants to do it, be my guest
20130614 19:23:26< zookeeper> sure
20130614 19:24:43< bumbadadabum> zookeeper: Only thing... the mentoring pose should appear on the left side and the other ones on the right side
20130614 19:24:51< bumbadadabum> which might look weird
20130614 19:25:34< zookeeper> well, i'd say that you should simply avoid using mentoring and the others one after another
20130614 19:25:45< bumbadadabum> yeah
20130614 19:26:05< zookeeper> as long as another character speaks in between, i think it's fine
20130614 19:26:41< LordBob_> bumbadadabum: just in case, to fill you in on the job: there are now "-elf" variants for each of Delfador's portraits. They should be used up to a certain point in the story (not sure when), once Konrad makes his open claim for the throne and switches himself from the "elvish" to "human" outfit
20130614 19:26:55< LordBob_> at least that's how it was planned when last I looked
20130614 19:27:02< bumbadadabum> I figured
20130614 19:27:37< zookeeper> the logical places to switch outfits would be after siege of elensefar, or in/after elvish council
20130614 19:28:00< bumbadadabum> zookeeper: I think it's done at Princess of Wesnoth IIRC for Konrad
20130614 19:28:10< AI0867> I think at either elensefar or the dwarves, he switches to human gear
20130614 19:28:57< AI0867> I vaguely remember someone proposing that someone would offer him some "proper gear"
20130614 19:29:24< bumbadadabum> Shall I add macros for the variants?
20130614 19:29:30< zookeeper> i think switching after elvish council would be best, since that's when they start marching back to wesnoth. it'd make sense for delfador to sort of openly start being delfador at that point and switch to his old robes.
20130614 19:29:48< zookeeper> i don't see a point in macroifying them
20130614 19:29:55< bumbadadabum> it's easier to replace
20130614 19:29:58< bumbadadabum> but meh
20130614 19:30:01< bumbadadabum> I'll just do this
20130614 19:31:28-!- Kexoth [~kex@89.205.70.185] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20130614 19:40:19-!- _8680_ [~8680@2002:44e1:f952:0:76de:2bff:fed4:2766] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 19:40:30-!- _8680_ [~8680@2002:44e1:f952:0:76de:2bff:fed4:2766] has quit [Client Quit]
20130614 19:41:39< bumbadadabum> Can't the LoW Uradredia portrait be used in HttT?
20130614 19:41:53< bumbadadabum> (if it is, I must be really blind)
20130614 19:43:23< LordBob_> If the character appears as well, I can't think if a reason not to
20130614 19:43:36< bumbadadabum> Or is it a different Uradredia...
20130614 19:43:39< bumbadadabum> it might be lol
20130614 19:44:10< zookeeper> IIRC there's a bit of a continuity problem since there's a lot of time in-between and the only reason kalenz has lived so long is the potion
20130614 19:44:52< bumbadadabum> yeah
20130614 19:45:07< bumbadadabum> that's what made me doubt whether it's the same one
20130614 19:46:21< AI0867> I think it was decided that it's just someone with the same name, but I'm not sure
20130614 19:46:41< LordBob_> Then, maybe the Uradredia in HttT can be renamed in order to avoid confusion ?
20130614 19:46:47< bumbadadabum> Then why not change the name
20130614 19:46:49< bumbadadabum> ninja'd
20130614 19:46:53< zookeeper> yep, he should be
20130614 19:47:50 * zookeeper pulls out a name generator
20130614 19:51:01< zookeeper> lamolrian, umenuard?
20130614 19:51:36< LordBob_> Lalmorian ?
20130614 19:51:48< bumbadadabum> ^
20130614 19:51:52< LordBob_> (easier to pronounce)
20130614 19:52:21< bumbadadabum> *Lamorian would be best
20130614 19:52:24< zookeeper> i have no preference really, just throwing in some ideas
20130614 19:52:27< bumbadadabum> I don't like the 'al'
20130614 19:55:00< LordBob_> Still, it gives a nice weight and singing note to the name. 'Lamorian' sounds like a dry name
20130614 19:55:22< bumbadadabum> hmm
20130614 19:55:25< bumbadadabum> I'm not sutre
20130614 19:55:27< bumbadadabum> *sure
20130614 19:55:37< LordBob_> Although you could name it flemodnar for all I care, these sorts of things don't justify endless debates
20130614 19:56:19< bumbadadabum> Name him "Pasunnom" then
20130614 19:56:20< bumbadadabum> :p
20130614 19:56:42< bumbadadabum> it actually sounds decent
20130614 19:56:57< LordBob_> Hehe, except to french players :p
20130614 19:57:13< bumbadadabum> they will get the joke
20130614 19:58:28< bumbadadabum> it does sound too dwarvish
20130614 19:58:30< bumbadadabum> so meh
20130614 19:59:43< LordBob_> Whichever. As the person doing the job, it's only fitting that you get to decide ;)
20130614 20:00:18< bumbadadabum> But I'm by no means HttT's mainainer
20130614 20:00:23< bumbadadabum> *maintainer
20130614 20:04:13-!- Gallaecio [~quassel@84.120.219.21.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20130614 20:05:17-!- EdB [~edb@abo-200-11-69.bdx.modulonet.fr] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 20:05:36-!- Gallaecio [~quassel@84.120.219.21.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 20:05:58-!- _8680_ [~8680@2002:44e1:f952:0:76de:2bff:fed4:2766] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 20:06:07-!- exciton [chuck-the-@89.208.169.104] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 20:06:15< LordBob_> bumbadadabum: "zookeeper: i have no preference really, just throwing in some ideas" <- I think he will voice his disagreement if need be
20130614 20:09:23-!- exciton_ [chuck-the-@89.208.169.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20130614 20:10:36< bumbadadabum>         name=moveto
20130614 20:10:37< bumbadadabum>         [filter_second]
20130614 20:10:47< bumbadadabum> I might be a bit rusty with WML
20130614 20:10:57< bumbadadabum> what is the second unit in a moveto?
20130614 20:12:02< _8680_> bumbadadabum: The second unit is (almost?) always the unit at ($x2,$y2), which for a moveto event is the location moved from, which can’t have a unit on it yet.
20130614 20:12:35< _8680_> (I think.)
20130614 20:12:49< bumbadadabum> in that case, I don't think this works
20130614 20:13:00< bumbadadabum>         name=moveto
20130614 20:13:02< bumbadadabum>         [filter_second]
20130614 20:13:03< bumbadadabum>             side=1
20130614 20:13:05< bumbadadabum>             x=2-9
20130614 20:13:06< bumbadadabum>             y=24,30
20130614 20:13:08< bumbadadabum>         [/filter_second]
20130614 20:13:09< bumbadadabum>         [message]
20130614 20:13:11< bumbadadabum>             speaker=second_unit
20130614 20:13:12< bumbadadabum>             message= _ "Stop! You shall not pass! Quick, reinforcements, protect the Princess!"
20130614 20:13:14< bumbadadabum>         [/message]
20130614 20:13:51< _8680_> bumbadadabum: <https://dpaste.de> <https://gist.github.com>
20130614 20:14:12< bumbadadabum> oh right
20130614 20:14:17< bumbadadabum> my bad
20130614 20:14:19-!- nurupo [~nurupo.ga@unaffiliated/nurupo] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
20130614 20:14:25< _8680_> (I recommend dpaste for temporary pastes and Gist for permanent ones.)
20130614 20:15:45< _8680_> I would change the [filter_second] to a [store_unit], and `speaker=second_unit` to `id=$speaker.id`.
20130614 20:15:46-!- exciton_ [chuck-the-@89.208.169.104] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 20:16:22< _8680_> ($speaker being the variable stored into.)
20130614 20:16:29-!- nurupo [~nurupo.ga@unaffiliated/nurupo] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 20:18:24-!- love1cat1 [~Adium@c-98-217-91-242.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 20:18:53-!- exciton [chuck-the-@89.208.169.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20130614 20:22:26-!- thunderstruck [~thunderst@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust174.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20130614 20:48:20< zookeeper> err, just change them to [filter] and unit
20130614 20:48:41< bumbadadabum> zookeeper: the $unit won't work
20130614 20:48:49< bumbadadabum> because it needs to be said by a guard
20130614 20:48:56< zookeeper> oh right, my bad
20130614 20:48:59< bumbadadabum> not the guy moving
20130614 20:49:05< zookeeper> type=Royal Guard then
20130614 20:49:20< bumbadadabum> side 2 type= royal guard
20130614 20:49:23< zookeeper> yes
20130614 20:52:10< _8680_> Oh yes, somehow I forgot that a whole SUF can go directly in a [message]. Seems I’m rusty at WML as well as C++ and JavaScript.
20130614 20:55:24-!- lipkab [~lipk@host-91-147-212-174.biatv.hu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 20:59:00< flix> mattsc: I have problems to define this macro. $side_number isn't resolving... I'm not sure if I can use it like this. Here is what I have so far: http://pastebin.com/jrC0Fgfa Any ideas?
20130614 21:01:24< mattsc> flix: oh, right, this is this delayed variable substitution thing...  I never have paid much attention to that.
20130614 21:04:02< mattsc> To be honest, I'd just make the side number the first argument in the macro - but then the question is whether it makes sense to introduce the macro in the first place.
20130614 21:05:22< mattsc> (actually, it's not really a delayed variable substitution thing if you put this into a [side] tag)
20130614 21:06:57< flix> mattsc: so no workaround in mind? :D Otherwise, it's maybe really not worth introducing it...
20130614 21:07:59< mattsc> flix: I wasn't thinking earlier how this would be implemented...  Depending on where you put the [goal] tag, the time when this gets parsed can vary, and so side_number (or it's equivalent) do not necessarily correspond to the side for which you want to apply this.
20130614 21:08:04< flix> mattsc: to give the side as a parameter inside [side] would seem really strange...
20130614 21:09:40< mattsc> Imagine that you put [modify_side]s for all AI sides into an event (e.g. a moveto event).  side_number then corresponds to the side doing the move, not necessarily to the side for which you want to modify the AI.
20130614 21:10:15< fabi> shikadibot_: I think there is a bug in the addon manager. The addon "To Lands Unknown: Imagas" never appears as "Installed" no matter how hard I try.
20130614 21:10:33< fabi> shadowm ^
20130614 21:11:48-!- lipkab [~lipk@host-91-147-212-174.biatv.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
20130614 21:13:39< flix> mattsc: I see... so what would you say then, define it with a side parameter or not define the macro at all?
20130614 21:14:06< mattsc> flix: yes, I think so.
20130614 21:14:07< mattsc> flix: There are cases like that.  For example, all the MODIFY_AI_* macros take a side argument, even if they are used inside the [side] tag.  But yes, the question is whether it is worth it here. 
20130614 21:19:55< mattsc> flix: actually, there's a  MODIFY_AI_ADD_GOAL SIDE GOAL_WML already ...
20130614 21:21:01-!- lipkab [~lipk@host-91-147-212-174.biatv.hu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 21:21:17< mattsc> flix: you could make it a special case of that, or we could just not do it.
20130614 21:21:36-!- EdB [~edb@abo-200-11-69.bdx.modulonet.fr] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
20130614 21:21:51< mattsc> flix: personally, after look at this, I'd probably do the latter
20130614 21:22:20< flix> mattsc: we still would need side as a parameter, right? So, no, I won't do it then.
20130614 21:22:35< mattsc> flix: correct
20130614 21:23:11< mattsc> flix: sorry for that.  The idea sounded good, but I didn't think it through how it would be used.
20130614 21:23:14< flix> mattsc: I just convert those 15 scenarios over the next days then...
20130614 21:23:14-!- lipkabb [~lipk@host-91-147-212-174.biatv.hu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 21:23:30< mattsc> flix: sounds good.
20130614 21:24:53< mattsc> flix: talking about macros, I'll probably add a macro that let's people add the Experimental AI to SP scenarios.  (One of our beverage-named developers had that idea and I like it.)
20130614 21:25:05< mattsc> That should be simple - unless I am missing something here too...  :P
20130614 21:25:33-!- jetrel_laptop [~jetrel_la@67-6-109-104.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
20130614 21:25:57-!- lipkab [~lipk@host-91-147-212-174.biatv.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
20130614 21:26:44-!- lipkabb [~lipk@host-91-147-212-174.biatv.hu] has quit [Client Quit]
20130614 21:27:01-!- lipkabb [~lipk@host-91-147-212-174.biatv.hu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 21:27:01-!- jetrel_laptop [~jetrel_la@184-100-85-61.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 21:27:27< flix> mattsc: yes, could be useful...
20130614 21:27:51-!- lipkabb [~lipk@host-91-147-212-174.biatv.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20130614 21:27:58-!- lipkab [~lipk@host-91-147-212-174.biatv.hu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 21:28:27< mattsc> flix: the main argument (besides convenience) is that we'll like get much more testing by UMC authors out of it that way.
20130614 21:29:33< flix> mattsc: To be honest at the beginning I hated all those macros... (and pssst, I still do :P).
20130614 21:30:14-!- lipkab [~lipk@host-91-147-212-174.biatv.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20130614 21:30:20< flix> mattsc: But of course they are super useful. It's just hard for new people....
20130614 21:30:26-!- lipkab [~lipk@host-91-147-212-174.biatv.hu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 21:31:55< fabi> trademark_: around?
20130614 21:32:00< mattsc> mattsc: yeah - and the AI code still scares a lot of people.  So if the choice is include these https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/blob/master/data/ai/ais/ai_generic-rush.cfg
20130614 21:32:28< mattsc> 60 lines of code, vs. all you need to do is insert one macro (without arguments), guess which one will be chosen.  :)
20130614 21:33:13< mattsc> And, actually, those 60 lines already contain a bunch of macros  :P
20130614 21:33:33< flix> :)
20130614 21:34:48-!- LordBob_ [~LordBob_@2a01:e34:ee82:47e0:21e:c2ff:fe01:261f] has quit [Quit: LordBob_]
20130614 21:34:48-!- lipkab [~lipk@host-91-147-212-174.biatv.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20130614 21:35:28-!- lipkab [~lipk@host-91-147-212-174.biatv.hu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 21:35:28-!- lipkab [~lipk@host-91-147-212-174.biatv.hu] has quit [Client Quit]
20130614 21:36:28-!- LordBob_ [~LordBob_@che33-7-78-232-36-126.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 21:39:19-!- Crab_ [~chernyi@wesnoth/developer/crab] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 21:46:07-!- prkc [~negusnyul@BC06D8CE.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 21:49:19< flix> Crab_: Hi! Time for a question?
20130614 21:54:22-!- lipkab [~lipk@host-91-147-212-174.biatv.hu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 21:55:38< Crab_> flix: hello!
20130614 21:55:42< Crab_> flix: yes
20130614 21:58:56-!- stikonas_ [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
20130614 21:58:59< mattsc> flix: while you're at it, could you ask Crab_ about reinstating the old aspect syntax?  ;)
20130614 22:01:42< flix> Crab_: I'm about to copy functionality which is already implemented in pathfind.cpp/find_routes() and ai/formula/function_table.cpp/calculate_map_ownership. But I can't use the formular function and I would need to extend find_routes() significantly for my purposes. So is it okay just copying it or should I think about extending find_routes() ?
20130614 22:02:52< flix> Crab_: I'm talking about Dijkstra's algorithm ;)
20130614 22:04:01-!- Guest87360 [~espreon@ai0867.net] has quit [Changing host]
20130614 22:04:01-!- Guest87360 [~espreon@wesnoth/developer/espreon] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 22:04:11-!- Guest87360 is now known as Espreon
20130614 22:04:47-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 22:06:17< flix> Crab_: I need a shortest-path-map for all hexes. The output of find_routes() are the hexes which can be reached in one turn. But the algorithm behind it is exactly the same (Priority Queue and stuff). So when I would copy it, it would contain 90% the code from find_paths. But I see no clever way how I could extend it though.
20130614 22:07:02< flix> s/find_paths/find_routes()
20130614 22:08:17< mattsc> flix: may throw in something related but somewhat different here?
20130614 22:09:00< flix> mattsc: go for it :)
20130614 22:09:31< mattsc> flix: I'd be very interested (for Lua AI purposes) to add some functionality to paht finding (or at least to the part that's accessible by Lua).
20130614 22:09:52< mattsc> I don't know if that would be easy for you to do while you're working on this already or not.
20130614 22:10:14< flix> mattsc: what kind of functionality?
20130614 22:10:31< mattsc> 1. be able to provide an alternative cost function.
20130614 22:11:04< mattsc> 2. get result of cost of movement to all hexes on the map (or at least a specified subset, not just to one goal hex)
20130614 22:11:36< mattsc> flix: Crab_ said that this functionality is already there in C++, just no accessible to Lua.
20130614 22:11:54< mattsc> flix: and this is simply for speed reasons, not because it can't be done in Lua
20130614 22:13:00< flix> 2. Is exactly what I need, too. As far as I can see, there are only functions in C++ which will do nearly this, but not exactly this. (Maybe I'm missing something)
20130614 22:13:53< mattsc> flix: you might be right.  I am just paraphrasing what I remember Crab_ telling me at some point.  I might have misunderstood him or misremember, it's been quite some time.
20130614 22:13:54< irker387> wesnoth: Adrián Chaves Fernández (Gallaecio) wesnoth-old:master 9c063a / po/ (12 files in 12 dirs): Updated the Galician (gl) translation. http://git.io/uq0rfg
20130614 22:13:56< irker387> wesnoth: Alexander van Gessel wesnoth-old:master d5d17f / po/ (12 files in 12 dirs): Merge pull request #25 from Gallaecio/gl http://git.io/O6l_9g
20130614 22:15:05< flix> 1. can be done easily in C++. I will see what it would need to give LUA an interface for this...
20130614 22:18:09< mattsc> flix: that would be great, thanks!
20130614 22:21:00< mattsc> flix: am I distracting you enough from what you're supposed to be doing?  ;)
20130614 22:21:46< flix> mattsc: definitely :P
20130614 22:22:42-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
20130614 22:25:01< flix> mattsc: how is the function called you need the cost-function for?
20130614 22:25:44< mattsc> flix:  http://wiki.wesnoth.org/LuaWML:Pathfinder#wesnoth.find_path
20130614 22:27:04< mattsc> flix, actually ...  Umm!
20130614 22:27:15< mattsc> See the second part of that wiki page...
20130614 22:27:42< mattsc> flix: wow, that was quick!  If you could solve all my problems that easily...  :D
20130614 22:28:06< mattsc> I didn't know that.
20130614 22:29:01< flix> mattsc: Yes, I've just committed it 5 sec ago... You're welcome :D
20130614 22:29:35< mattsc> flix: ... and you wrote the wiki entry in no time on top of that!
20130614 22:30:13< mattsc> Cool!  That means I can finish up the avoid_enemies= functionality for the Goto MAI.
20130614 22:34:48< flix> mattsc: I want to see this cost function, when it is finished. I could use it in the (new) MLTK CA.
20130614 22:35:06< flix> (maybe)
20130614 22:35:22< mattsc> MLTK?  machine learning ... ?
20130614 22:35:43< flix> Move Leaders To Keep Candidate Action :P
20130614 22:36:26< mattsc> Oh, duh!   :P 
20130614 22:36:36< mattsc> flix: I'll probably do something very simple and similar to how scouts are already handled in the RCA AI.
20130614 22:40:33-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-23-20-102-84.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 22:40:33< travis-ci> [travis-ci] wesnoth/wesnoth-old#43 (master - d5d17f4 : Alexander van Gessel): The build passed.
20130614 22:40:33< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/compare/e8734b54a144...d5d17f4c8101
20130614 22:40:33< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/builds/8098476
20130614 22:40:33-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-23-20-102-84.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20130614 22:40:42< flix> mattsc: are there situations where this MLTK CA have to do actually something intelligent? E.g. is there a scenario where a AI leader really needs to choose a appropriate keep and move to it? I mean in most scenarios the AI-leader just sits on its throne and drinks tea... (Going back just after a one-turn attack doesn't count) 
20130614 22:41:33< mattsc> flix: in most SP scenarios that's true, but there are definitely cases on MP maps where castle switching is very useful.
20130614 22:41:53< mattsc> flix: and, of course, this has already been done in AI-demos.  ;)
20130614 22:43:45< mattsc> flix: and moved to mainline: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/blob/master/data/ai/lua/generic-rush_engine.lua#L57
20130614 22:44:02< mattsc> flix: actually, this is (also) Alarantalara's code, so I don't know much about it.
20130614 22:44:30-!- happygrue_ [~happygrue@wesnoth/developer/wintermute] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20130614 22:46:09< flix> mattsc: Hmm, I don't know if I can improve it to think about castle switching. I thing this could be out of my project scope... (and also, when this micro AI is good then there is no need to copy it...)
20130614 22:46:18< Crab_> flix: (sorry, was afk)
20130614 22:46:38< flix> Crab_: no problem
20130614 22:46:42< mattsc> flix: the reason why the leader usually stays on the keep in scenarios might also be because the AI can't handle anything else.  I bet if you provide the functionality, somebody will use it.  But yes, what you write makes sense.
20130614 22:47:01< Crab_> flix: it is important to not make the existing pathfind code slower
20130614 22:47:32< Crab_> flix: but, if you manage to extend it without making it significantly slower, it's the best course of action
20130614 22:47:54< Crab_> flix: copying is possible if you want just to do a quick test of something, but in the end, duplicated code is not that good
20130614 22:48:42< Crab_> flix: I guess that if extending it is not easily possible, you have to copy
20130614 22:51:21< trademark_> fabi, yep
20130614 22:51:34< fabi> hi trademark_
20130614 22:51:46< trademark_> hello 
20130614 22:51:52< fabi> trademark_: You are working on the addon server?
20130614 22:52:06< trademark_> not yet but be sure I'll ;)
20130614 22:52:37< fabi> trademark_: I have some plans about a rating system for addons.
20130614 22:53:04< Crab_> flix: if you make a copy, please make it generic enough and place it inside the pathfind code, so other places of wesnoth would be able to use it, as well
20130614 22:53:13< trademark_> fabi, is it you who sent the email on wesnoth list ?
20130614 22:53:21< fabi> trademark_: no
20130614 22:53:22< trademark_> ho no, 
20130614 22:53:25< trademark_> it was lipk
20130614 22:53:27< fabi> trademark_: let me check
20130614 22:54:06< trademark_> he spook about something similar, with a UMC content quality system
20130614 22:54:24< trademark_> spoke* hum
20130614 22:55:00< fabi> lipkab
20130614 22:55:44< flix> Crab_: okay. So if I have time I could write even a lua interface for mattsc for this ;). And as soon as I finished the copy you can have a look at it to see if one could refactor it into one in a clever way.
20130614 22:56:56< trademark_> fabi, did you 
20130614 22:57:21< trademark_> fabi, oops, did you write something about it in the wiki or can you explain me your plans ?
20130614 22:58:33< fabi> trademark_: Yes, the moment the addon server gets a new upload, it will create a poll thread on a special section of our forum. These polls are used for the rating and can also hold reviews in the following discussion.
20130614 23:00:02< fabi> The URL to the thread where you can rate can be copied to the clipboard (or even opened by the default browser)  from the addon manager dialog.
20130614 23:00:27< lipkab> fabi
20130614 23:00:46< fabi> The result of the rating can be used to sort the addon list.
20130614 23:01:31< Crab_> flix: ok!
20130614 23:01:54< trademark_> how does the user rate the add-on ? I guess it's on the forum, but how the add-on server can retrieve these results ?
20130614 23:02:12< AI0867> we already have the "forum user handler"
20130614 23:02:20< AI0867> allowing people to log in using their forum accounts
20130614 23:02:23< fabi> trademark_: Indeed, what AI0867 says.
20130614 23:02:30< AI0867> I suppose extending that wouldn't be too difficult
20130614 23:03:02< fabi> trademark_: The rating itself is just the normal "poll" function the forum offers since ages.
20130614 23:03:32< flix> mattsc, Crab_: I need to get some sleep now. Bye!
20130614 23:03:37< Crab_> flix: bye
20130614 23:03:43< mattsc> flix: bye
20130614 23:03:47-!- flix [~flix@178.77.175.34] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20130614 23:04:03< mattsc> Crab_: any chance to look into the aspect syntax thing yet?
20130614 23:04:28-!- stikonas [~gentoo@128.232.240.234] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 23:04:29-!- stikonas [~gentoo@128.232.240.234] has quit [Changing host]
20130614 23:04:29-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 23:04:29< trademark_> well, ok but I see two disadvantages, it's add dependency to the forum, I don't know how we can retrieve result of a poll from a C++ server, does an API exists ?
20130614 23:04:40< trademark_> it adds*
20130614 23:04:48< Crab_> mattsc: sorry, not yet.
20130614 23:05:14< mattsc> Crab_: ok, no worries.  As long as you don't mind that I poke you about it occassionally.
20130614 23:05:19< Crab_> sure
20130614 23:06:27< mattsc> Crab_: also, it looks like Nephro's busy with other things at the moment.  He hasn't been here for a while, so getting the external CAs done will have to wait again.
20130614 23:06:39< Crab_> it's summer time :)
20130614 23:06:51< mattsc> Exactly.  I don't blame him, just saying.  :)
20130614 23:07:13< mattsc> The significance of that is that I need that to make the Micro AIs be combinable arbitrarily.
20130614 23:07:35< trademark_> however it's clearly a good idea, but it's also a task with very low priority. Coding the add-on server is already a tremendous work in a very short time frame. If I have time, I will try to get it done before the end, otherwise it will wait until I have some times during other holidays.
20130614 23:10:25< trademark_> lipkab, hi ! BTW I read your mail, I currently have no time to respond and give a detailed answer/ask questions, but I'll after my exams ;-)
20130614 23:17:25< love1cat1> Crab_: hi Crab_
20130614 23:17:31< Crab_> love1cat1: hello!
20130614 23:17:57< love1cat1> Crab_: got time for a question on multi target attack?
20130614 23:18:01< Crab_> yes
20130614 23:18:02< lipkab> trademark_: Well, the main point of my mail was that we could do stuff _without_ touching the add-ons server ;)
20130614 23:19:13-!- exciton_ [chuck-the-@89.208.169.104] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20130614 23:19:48< love1cat1> Crab_: the description is long and i'll send a pastebin soon
20130614 23:20:35< mattsc> Crab_: power outage.  The Internet's still working for the moment, but nothing else is, so I'll sign off and call it an early evening.  :P  Bye.
20130614 23:20:44< Crab_> bye :)
20130614 23:21:30-!- mattsc [~mattsc@fw.hia.nrc.ca] has quit [Quit: Ciao]
20130614 23:22:23< trademark_> lipkab, ho :) however it's time to raise remarks/suggestions on the add-on server because it'll be re-coded during the summer ;-)
20130614 23:22:23< love1cat1> Crab_: http://pastebin.com/B2Me6Rdq
20130614 23:22:38< Crab_> love1cat1: reading...
20130614 23:24:21< love1cat1> Crab_: it's basically about in what scenario, multi taget attack analysis can outperform single target analysis
20130614 23:24:30-!- exciton [chuck-the-@89.208.169.104] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 23:26:00< Crab_> to outperform single target analysis, the rating (a1, a2, a3)->t1 must depend on the fact that other two units are attacking t2, (a4,a5)->t2 , and vice versa. let's assume for a second, for simplicity, that wesnoth is deterministic (no randomness in attacks)
20130614 23:26:32< Crab_> then, we know the exact situation after both of those attacks are done
20130614 23:26:48< Crab_> then, we can 'rate' this position together
20130614 23:27:47< Crab_> and (a1,a2,a3)->t1 can be rated higher because the enemy cannot do all possible counter-attacks due to moves in the second attack, (a4,a5)->t2 , blocking some enemy moves
20130614 23:29:24< Crab_> for another example, take two 1hp berserkers b1,b2 attacking two dark adepts, d1,d2
20130614 23:29:59< Crab_> berkerker will always kill a dark adept when attacking, dark adept will most likely (0.91 chance) kill a berserker when attacking.
20130614 23:30:22< Crab_> ratings:
20130614 23:30:56< Crab_> 2. single target (b1)->(d1): we kill a dark adept, +1; a second dark adept will kill us next turn, -1. final rating 0
20130614 23:31:09< Crab_> 3. single target (b2)->(d2): we kill a dark adept, +1; a second dark adept will kill us next turn, -1. final rating 0
20130614 23:31:43< Crab_> 1. multi target (b1)->d1 and (b2)->d2 : we will kill two dark adepts +2, no one will be alive to counter-attack us next turn, -0. final rating 2
20130614 23:32:22-!- LordBob_ [~LordBob_@che33-7-78-232-36-126.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: LordBob_]
20130614 23:33:03< Crab_> so, the multi-attack rating is not outperforming single target rating if you rate the attacks separately and don't consider the results of both attacks at the same time
20130614 23:33:42< Crab_> but, if you consider two attacks together, you know the new positions of all those units, and the approximate hp/death chance, for them and enemies.
20130614 23:34:13< Crab_> so, the evaluation of the next turn enemy counter-attack will give a different number.
20130614 23:35:09< Crab_> so, to make multi-attack outperform single-attack, you need to do a quick evaluation of enemy counter-attack on the resulting position after both attacks are done.
20130614 23:35:38< Crab_> if done right, it might give you a better rating for two attacks, than the sum of two ratings
20130614 23:41:17< Crab_> for example, if the ratings are computed like this: multi : R1+R2 - counter_attack(on position after multi);  1st single: R1-counter_attack1(on position after 1st single); 2nd single : R2 - counter_attack2(on position after 2nd single);  ,  then, it's totally possible than counter_attack(on position after multi) < counter_attack1(on position after 1st single) + counter_attack2(on position after 2nd single)    
20130614 23:41:20< Crab_> (it's not guaranteed, since our units will be injured in the attacks or will be on worse terrain after the attacks, but it can happen if the attacks are good and new positions help units protect each other via zone of control)
20130614 23:42:07< Crab_> but, if it happens,  multi would be > 1st single + 2nd single, two attacks would rate higher than the sum of singles
20130614 23:42:50< love1cat1> Crab_: is the "power_projection" the only function related to the counter attack evaluation?
20130614 23:43:06-!- Octalot [~noct@host86-128-72-16.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 23:44:03< Crab_> there are a number of other things that contribute to the rating of attack, like vulnerability and support. but those aren't good either.
20130614 23:45:23< Crab_> and power projection is also not very useful (it cannot tell how badly several hexes can be hit, since attacking one hex takes units - so, a power projection on several units is not a sum of power projections on individual units)
20130614 23:46:58< love1cat1> Crab_: as far as I see, vulnerability and support are computed by calling power_projection
20130614 23:47:26< Crab_> as far as I remember, they also try to take terrain quality change into account
20130614 23:47:39< Crab_> also note that for 'multi would be > 1st single + 2nd single' to happen, usually you need to kill/attack/block off a enemy unit, or make sure the attacking units are close to each other to prevent enemy from taking hexes near them to attack
20130614 23:48:16< Crab_> so, in those 'attacks', some of the attacks can actually be just moves without attacking which block enemy from reaching some other units
20130614 23:52:37-!- Alarantalara [~Adium@CPEc0c1c09e8055-CM00252eac6d62.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 23:53:03< love1cat1> Crab_: sounds promising. I think the part that "generates multi target attack" can be improved following your idea here.
20130614 23:54:08< Crab_> there are many possible ideas to try there. the main point is that if we consider 2 attacks at a time, we can check the estimated resulting position which might be better than checking two single positions individually (e.g. as in the berserker vs dark adept example)
20130614 23:54:37-!- happygrue [~happygrue@c-66-30-159-137.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 23:54:37-!- happygrue [~happygrue@c-66-30-159-137.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host]
20130614 23:54:37-!- happygrue [~happygrue@wesnoth/developer/wintermute] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130614 23:54:40< Crab_> then multi would be able to outperform the singles
20130614 23:57:06-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
20130614 23:57:11< love1cat1> I see your point. I was focusing on how to improve rating generated multi attacks. Now I think I may improve generating multi attacks by considering these counter attacks after unit movements of all attacks
20130614 23:59:40< irker387> wesnoth: fendrin wesnoth-old:master 6e8f76 / src/server/user_handler.cpp: Fix the spelling in a comment. http://git.io/iTIK7g
--- Log closed Sat Jun 15 00:00:33 2013