--- Log opened Sat Jun 15 00:00:33 2013
20130615 00:02:27< trademark_> I'm off, bye.
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20130615 00:03:48< irker387> wesnoth: Alarantalara wesnoth-old:master 62c2bb / data/ai/lua/generic-recruit_engine.lua: Merge AI-demo and mainline experimental recruit logic http://git.io/oZUchg
20130615 00:03:53< love1cat1> Crab_: you also mentioned something last time about next-turn counter attacks in power_projection. Probably I can work on that first?
20130615 00:06:29< Crab_> it might be useful and easier - the idea is to make a version of power projection that would quickly return a rating for several hexes at once - like 'how much average damage/kills/kills in gold   can enemy do to our units a1,a2,a3,a4,a5 on locations l1,l2,l3,l4,l5' ? obviously, each enemy can only attack once, and it has to be fast, without simulating combats
20130615 00:08:02< Crab_> alternatively, you can try to think of some methods that would rate which side has an advantage at a given part of the map
20130615 00:10:05< love1cat1> Crab_: alright it probably be better to improve it first since it is also related to multi target analysis
20130615 00:10:39< Crab_> yes. we need some functions that would 'rate' a small part of the map.
20130615 00:10:55< Crab_> then, we'll be able to use those functions in determining the multi-attack score
20130615 00:11:17< Crab_> 'the strength of the enemy counterattack' just seems the easiest one to compute
20130615 00:13:10< love1cat1> Crab_: when rate part of the map, what should we consider? Sth. about vulnerability and support?
20130615 00:14:42< Crab_> maybe something like 'we have 300 gold worth of units here, enemy has 280 gold worth of units there. next turn, he can deal us 50 gold of damage while losing 20'
20130615 00:15:14< Crab_> estimates are ok, it has to be reasonably fast
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20130615 00:16:38< Crab_> each enemy unit present is a problem (it can deal damage to us and take some damage without being killed), and each our unit is a good thing (it can deal damage to enemy and can take damage without being killed)
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20130615 00:20:17< Crab_> so, we need a function like power projection, that'll try to do something simple, like a simple greedy algorithm 'for each enemy unit, find it's best attack, mark attack-from hex as occupied, maybe mark our target unit as damaged or dead, add damage to sum'
20130615 00:20:55< love1cat1> Crab_:  like a improved multi location power_projection?
20130615 00:20:58< Crab_> yes
20130615 00:21:11< Crab_> it might be a reasonable estimate of what 10 enemy units can do to 10 our units.
20130615 00:21:31< Crab_> we don't need the same level of precision as in multi attack planning
20130615 00:21:50< Crab_> since we'd want to use that multi location power_projection when finding best multi attack
20130615 00:21:56< Crab_> so, it has to be faster and simpler
20130615 00:22:47< Crab_> it'll work in simple cases like the 'two berserkers two dark adepts' example (since most-likely-dead dark adepts won't attack us next turn )'
20130615 00:22:58-!- ShikadiLord is now known as shadowm
20130615 00:23:41< Crab_> so, in that example, each single attack would get a penalty from multi-location-power-projection due to 1 adept remaining and potentially attacking us, while multi attack will get no penalty
20130615 00:24:44< Crab_> also, it might allow the AI to find things like 'ok, we need to attack this enemy unit to kill it, and use this one unit to block the other enemy units from reaching our wounded units and causing us damage'
20130615 00:24:59< shadowm> fabi: How did you install it?
20130615 00:25:30< fabi> shadowm: ?
20130615 00:25:47< shadowm> How did you install the add-on?
20130615 00:26:30< fabi> shadowm: Ah. With the addon manager gui. Not with the python script.
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20130615 00:27:48< love1cat1> Crab_: got it. basically a fast implementation of multi loc power_projection. I'll work on it and keep you posted
20130615 00:27:48< shadowm> Can you file a bug report? If you manage to find out what makes it so different from all other add-ons, the better.
20130615 00:27:58< Crab_> love1cat1: great
20130615 00:28:10< fabi> shadowm: Can you reproduce it?
20130615 00:28:58< shadowm> I am not going to download that massive add-on and I'm currently busy with other stuff so I won't look at the id until much later.
20130615 00:29:35< love1cat1> Crab_: thanks a lot for all your advices.
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20130615 00:29:41< travis-ci> [travis-ci] wesnoth/wesnoth-old#44 (master - 6e8f764 : fendrin): The build passed.
20130615 00:29:41< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/compare/d5d17f4c8101...6e8f764162e5
20130615 00:29:41< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/builds/8101787
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20130615 00:29:48< travis-ci> [travis-ci] wesnoth/wesnoth-old#45 (master - 62c2bbc : Alarantalara): The build passed.
20130615 00:29:48< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/compare/6e8f764162e5...62c2bbcb20f9
20130615 00:29:48< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/builds/8101915
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20130615 00:31:25< love1cat1> Crab_: I'm out for food now. Bye
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20130615 00:31:30< Crab_> bye!
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20130615 00:50:35< lipkab> shadowm: I challenge you!
20130615 00:51:02< bumbadadabum> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFkdcQgNJHo
20130615 00:52:32< shadowm> lipkab: Uh?
20130615 00:54:09< lipkab> shadowm: Well, I'm looking for someone to play an mp match.
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20130615 00:55:58< shadowm> Well, yeah, I'm busy with other stuff as I said before. Sorry.
20130615 00:56:03< lipkab> :(
20130615 00:56:28< lipkab> Well, no problem, I'll challenge... fabi instead.
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20130615 00:56:36< lipkab> fabi: I challenge you!
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20130615 00:56:57< fabi> lipkab: huh?
20130615 00:57:09< lipkab> fabi: mp?
20130615 00:57:40< fabi> lipkab: uh, I am a bad MP player, you can call me a noob.
20130615 00:57:52< lipkab> Who cares.
20130615 00:58:12< bumbadadabum> fabi: Can't be worse than me
20130615 00:58:20< fabi> lipkab: Do you want to test something?
20130615 00:58:58< lipkab> fabi: No... I just want to play... you know, this is a game or what...
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20130615 01:01:04< shadowm> On the other hand I think I need a little break from this tedious script reviewing.
20130615 01:01:06< _8680_> bumbadadabum: I’m fairly sure I’m worse than you.
20130615 01:01:29< bumbadadabum> _8680_: Did you savescum during TSG?
20130615 01:01:35< bumbadadabum> on easy?
20130615 01:01:49< _8680_> TSG being The South Guard?
20130615 01:02:07< bumbadadabum> yes
20130615 01:02:16< _8680_> I think so, yes.
20130615 01:02:42< AI0867> TSG used to be absolutely terrible with that
20130615 01:02:48< AI0867> dunno if it's been fixed
20130615 01:02:53< AI0867> people have tried
20130615 01:03:28< shadowm> Does anyone know how I can make a new directory with a newline in its name without having to use an API directly?
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20130615 01:03:55< shadowm> mkdir "foo\nbar" is making a directory literally named foo\nbar instead of foo<LF>bar
20130615 01:04:39< Alarantalara> mkdir 'test\
20130615 01:04:45< Alarantalara> bar'
20130615 01:05:02< Alarantalara> It does something strange for me
20130615 01:05:11< Alarantalara> no idea it's a newline though
20130615 01:05:12< AI0867> yes
20130615 01:05:14< shadowm> Oh yes, that works.
20130615 01:05:29< fabi> shadowm: newlines are allowed in directory names?
20130615 01:05:29< shadowm> Yes, it is a newline, it's just that ls handles that specially. My GUI file manager doesn't.
20130615 01:05:39< fabi> hmmm
20130615 01:05:50< shadowm> fabi: Every system admin should know this.
20130615 01:06:07< shadowm> Alarantalara: Okay, that's actually foo\<LF>bar for me.
20130615 01:06:19< shadowm> But that's good enough I guess.
20130615 01:08:53< shadowm> And I randomly discovered how to facilitate this process after tab completing one of the LF-including names in zsh.
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20130615 02:39:51< irker387> wesnoth: Emilien Rotival wesnoth-old:master 677b11 / / (6 files in 2 dirs): Updated artwork for the hero/leader/loyal status icons http://git.io/vsUo8Q
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20130615 02:53:23< irker387> wesnoth: Emilien Rotival wesnoth-old:master 82b8d9 / / (7 files in 3 dirs): New artwork and TC ranges for team color-able icon bases and cursor hexes http://git.io/TRyovA
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20130615 03:20:17< irker387> wesnoth: Alexander van Gessel wesnoth-old:master bab455 / src/game_display.cpp: Recolor new hex cursors for yours/enemy/ally/empty http://git.io/9rcWWg
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20130615 05:35:43< irker387> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master d11edb / changelog data/ai/ais/ai_generic-rush.cfg data/core/macros/ai.cfg: Make Experimental AI available in MP and SP http://git.io/ExT98w
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20130615 05:59:48< travis-ci> [travis-ci] wesnoth/wesnoth-old#49 (master - d11edb6 : mattsc): The build passed.
20130615 05:59:48< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/compare/bab455dc8cbc...d11edb6ec79e
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20130615 06:12:19< mattsc> _Coffee: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/AiWML#Experimental_AI  (available in trunk now or in 1.11.5)
20130615 06:12:57< _Coffee> mattsc: cool, I'll check it out
20130615 06:13:02< mattsc> I know this is not very descriptive at the moment (I might flesh it out later if I have the time), but it does show how to use the ExpAI in a SP scenario.
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20130615 06:13:52< _Coffee> I'll let you know if I can follow it :)
20130615 06:14:22< mattsc> I think you can handle including a single macro line (which doesn't even require arguments).  :)
20130615 06:14:34< mattsc> I'm off now.  Bye.
20130615 06:14:44< _Coffee> see you
20130615 06:14:49< _Coffee> and thanks for that
20130615 06:15:23< mattsc> Thanks for the idea.  It's one of those "why didn't I think of that myself?!" things.
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20130615 13:44:23< irker387> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth-old:master 2b6bf5 / src/widgets/menu.cpp: Used slider arrows for GUI1 menu sort indicators http://git.io/u14-Jw
20130615 13:44:26< irker387> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth-old:master 05987f / images/misc/ (sort-arrow-reverse.png sort-arrow.png): Removed old sort arrow images http://git.io/3nam6Q
20130615 13:50:31< irker387> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth-old:master 49da1b / attic/bar-energy-tinygui.png images/misc/bar-energy-tinygui.png: Moved tinygui energy bar image to attic http://git.io/vh4NYw
20130615 14:00:09< irker387> wesnoth: Charles Dang wesnoth-old:master 3e8aee / images/buttons/button_selectable/ (button_selectable_38_base-disabled.png button_selectable_74_base-disabled.png): Removed usused disabled variation images for the tristate button http://git.io/d7YyKA
20130615 14:06:54< irker387> wesnoth: Adrián Chaves Fernández (Gallaecio) wesnoth-old:master 7f0297 / / (7 files in 5 dirs): Updated the Galician (gl) translation http://git.io/-fuFpQ
20130615 14:06:56< irker387> wesnoth: Alexander van Gessel wesnoth-old:master 742437 / / (7 files in 5 dirs): Merge pull request #26 from Gallaecio/gl http://git.io/pdMUyQ
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20130615 16:02:47< flix> mattsc: Hi!
20130615 16:04:09< flix> mattsc: You said you wanted to have this cost-map, right? (I think it was the "2." yesterday)
20130615 16:05:45< flix> mattsc: Just to make sure: You mean a map where for one unit on the game-map each hex is mapped to a value which indicated the total cost from the units location until there, right?
20130615 16:06:29< flix> s/indicated/indicates
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20130615 16:11:41< mattsc> flix: hi.  Yes, that is exactly what I meant.
20130615 16:12:59< flix> mattsc: Would you be satisfied when you get this map not with the total costs but with the amount of turns until the unit gets there? Although it seems more inaccurate I think it's even better!
20130615 16:13:22< mattsc> flix: in the meantime I remembered one of the other things that would be very useful: if providing an alternative cost function, evaluate it only at the end points of each move (that is, per turn).  I haven't looked into it whether that can be done with the existing functionality.
20130615 16:14:29< mattsc> flix: that depends on the situation.  In some cases turns is sufficient (or better), in some cases it is not.
20130615 16:14:57< flix> mattsc: do you have a situation where it's worse?
20130615 16:15:04< mattsc> For example, if a unit can get to a hex using up 1 MP, it might be able to do something else afterward.
20130615 16:15:28< mattsc> That might be useful in some situations, and not in others.
20130615 16:15:39< flix> mattsc: Hmm, but just imagine a unit with 3 max_moves and a map with 2-cost-hexes everywhere. A path with cost of 6 will take the unit 3 turns, not 2!
20130615 16:16:09< flix> mattsc: so costs can be misleading
20130615 16:16:16< mattsc> flix: find_path takes that into account, as far as I know.
20130615 16:16:32< mattsc> And the version with the new cost function should as well.
20130615 16:17:23< mattsc> As in, in the example you bring, the cost should be given as 3 + 3 + 2 = 8, not 6
20130615 16:17:58< mattsc> s/bring/give
20130615 16:21:09< flix> mattsc: so it's       (<turns I need> - 1) * <max_moves> + <move cost in last turn>             right?
20130615 16:22:02< mattsc> flix: yes  (although I don't know if that's how it's done internally in the code)
20130615 16:25:06< Alarantalara> flix, that's what find_path returns, though it doesn't do that calculation directly (since it's a search algorithm)
20130615 16:26:17< mattsc> flix: and with the default settings, it also takes hexes next enemies into account as turn-ending, as far as I know
20130615 16:26:25< flix> Alarantalara: :) exactly, what I'm doing / extending is find_routes(). This uses this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dijkstra's_algorithm
20130615 16:27:13< flix> mattsc: it's fine for you if enemies and zocs are ignored for this?
20130615 16:27:34< mattsc> flix: no  :(
20130615 16:28:02< mattsc> flix: again, the answer is the usual: we want both - depending on the situation.
20130615 16:28:26< mattsc> But I can create the no-enemies situation myself while evaluating a turn, so the one with enemies is actually more important.
20130615 16:29:14< flix> mattsc: okay, the functionality is already there, I just need to extend my adapters :)
20130615 16:29:19< Alarantalara> flix: There already is code that does what mattsc wants. The primary issue is adding the ability to use a Lua function for the cost
20130615 16:29:22< Alarantalara> too slow
20130615 16:32:09< flix> Alarantalara: what function you are referring to? (just for preventing misunderstandings)
20130615 16:33:47< flix> Alarantalara: because mattsc found yesterday that it is already possible to define a custom cost function for find_paths(). So I'm doing something different.
20130615 16:37:57< Alarantalara> Right, I'm confusing find path and paths
20130615 16:38:07< Alarantalara> No I'm not
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20130615 16:38:26< Alarantalara> pathfind.cpp:260
20130615 16:39:01< Alarantalara> though the cost function is somewhat limited there
20130615 16:41:00< flix> Alarantalara: This is the function I'm about to extend. But not with a custom cost function but with the ability to create this full cost-map. 
20130615 16:43:23< Alarantalara> instead of a long list of routes?
20130615 16:43:38< flix> Alarantalara: and this find_routes() function there is used by the Lua function find_reach(). find_path() uses a* search
20130615 16:45:16< mattsc> Alarantalara (and flix): just to summarize, there are 3 things I have come across that would be really helpful to have available in Lua:
20130615 16:45:48< mattsc> 1. pass a custom cost function to wesnoth.find_path - turns out that functionality is already there, I jsut didn't know about it
20130615 16:46:22< mattsc> 2. be able to apply this cost function only at the end points of each move (that might or might not already be doable, I haven't looked at it)
20130615 16:46:59< mattsc> 3. get a cost map for all hexes on the map (or a subset) for a unit
20130615 16:47:12< flix> Alarantalara: yes
20130615 16:47:39< mattsc> And yes, as you said, all of that is already possible in Lua, but it is too slow for large maps and complex calculations.
20130615 16:48:21< mattsc> If I understood it right, flix is currently working on 3. (which was 2. in my list from yesterday, because I'd forgotten about what is now 2.)
20130615 16:48:31< mattsc> :P
20130615 16:48:33< flix> :)
20130615 16:49:45< mattsc> flix: and yes, all of that should be done for the current situation on the map, taking enemies into account.
20130615 16:50:33< mattsc> wesnoth.find_path has a bunch of nifty parameters which let you choose one or the other, but taking the enemies off the map is easy (and quick), if it's too complicated to add to the function itself.
20130615 16:50:58< mattsc> *to add as a parameter
20130615 16:50:59< flix> mattsc, Alarantalara: I'm just thinking about something: Is it right that with this "long list of routes" given by find_reach() it could be possible to create this full cost-map?
20130615 16:51:22< flix> "full score map" = 3.
20130615 16:51:36< flix> s/score/cost :P
20130615 16:52:25< Alarantalara> Actually, it would probably be faster to separate out the last 10 or so lines from find_routes and get the costs from nodes directly
20130615 16:52:30< mattsc> flix: I'm not sure I understand the question.  Do you mean putting together routes until they cover the entire map?
20130615 16:53:17< Alarantalara> That is add them to a map instead of an array
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20130615 16:54:22< flix> mattsc: yes. And Alarantalara is right, even when it is possible it could be definitely done more efficient. (So my work so far is not useless ;) )
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20130615 16:55:53< mattsc> flix: ok - and while it is a moot point by now, I am actually doing something like that in one of the MAIs (bottleneck, to figure out which side of the bottleneck a hex is on), because I don't have the full-map functionality available yet
20130615 16:56:37< mattsc> But there I only need it once, so it's not an issue, while in other AIs this is needed many times over and then it's just too slow.
20130615 16:57:13< flix> mattsc, Alarantalara: Also I need the functionality that I can call this function with a location and a unit-type instead of a existing unit, but I don't know yet if I can give Lua a interface for this.
20130615 16:57:17< flix> mattsc: okay
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20130615 16:58:20< mattsc> flix: okay.  If you can't make it available to Lua, that is easy to "fake", so don't worry about it.
20130615 17:02:20< flix> mattsc: for future-flix: How would you expect the data-structure outputted by this new Lua-function to look like? (2 dimensional table or something?)
20130615 17:03:32< mattsc> flix: { { 1, 1, 17 }, { 1, 2, 16} .... } ?
20130615 17:03:47< Alarantalara> It might be easiest if you made it match the location set library in Wesnoth Lua
20130615 17:03:48< mattsc> Either that, or a location set  :)
20130615 17:03:57< mattsc> Alarantalara: yep
20130615 17:04:33< Alarantalara> It's a one dimensional map (k*y+x) -> {set}. I don't remember the constant
20130615 17:04:45< mattsc> Alarantalara: that has a problem though, as a LS contains not just the coordinates, but also all the functions.
20130615 17:05:15< mattsc> So we also need a way of actually making it a location set, or you have to import it one by one anyway
20130615 17:05:43< Alarantalara> You can import the functions :)
20130615 17:06:29< flix> mattsc: It's this, right?: "The locations are stored as triples in an array. The first two elements of a triple are the coordinates of a reachable tile, the third one is the number of movement points left when reaching the tile."
20130615 17:06:30< mattsc> Alarantalara: hmm, okay.  We'll need an extension to the LS library then.
20130615 17:07:29< Alarantalara> It's trivial to extend
20130615 17:07:40< mattsc> flix: for your data structure?  (the description of the third element doesn't sound right)
20130615 17:08:03< mattsc> Alarantalara: sure, that wasn't a complaint, just a mental note :)
20130615 17:08:14< flix> mattsc: it's the output by find_reach(). The description is from the wiki
20130615 17:08:33< mattsc> flix: yes, that's correct.
20130615 17:08:58< mattsc> flix, Alarantalara: so there's something that does triples already.  Does it make sense to stick with the same format?
20130615 17:09:25< Alarantalara> No, the problem is that you then have to search through the triples
20130615 17:09:30< mattsc> There's a distinct lack of consistency in data format between the Lua functions and it's actually quite annoying.
20130615 17:10:16< Alarantalara> They're probably ordered, so binary search is possible, but still
20130615 17:10:24< mattsc> Alarantalara: that's true.  So the bet thing would be to give find_reach an option that also does that.
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20130615 20:22:16< fabi_> Ivanovic: Hello, when do you plan the next release?
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20130615 21:41:51< irker387> wesnoth: fendrin wesnoth-old:master 3a463b / src/server/forum_user_handler.cpp: Fix spelling in comment. http://git.io/KMxm9Q
20130615 21:41:53< irker387> wesnoth: fendrin wesnoth-old:master 20ef5c / src/game_display.cpp: Fix spelling in comments. http://git.io/DcH3kg
20130615 21:41:55< irker387> wesnoth: fendrin wesnoth-old:master 3b0469 / src/display.hpp: Fix spelling in comment. http://git.io/DbQkxQ
20130615 21:45:17< fabi_> AI0867: ping
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20130615 22:12:44< travis-ci> [travis-ci] wesnoth/wesnoth-old#57 (master - 3b0469e : fendrin): The build passed.
20130615 22:12:44< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/compare/742437dbb405...3b0469eed9ba
20130615 22:12:44< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/builds/8120909
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20130615 22:32:14< AI0867> fabi_: pong
20130615 22:33:32< fabi_> AI0867: I saw you wired in the new hex frame images from LordBob_. But they are still shown in magenta for me. Did you make an attempt to use their team coloring?
20130615 22:33:53< fabi_> AI0867: Well, I don't saw it, LordBob_ told me.
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20130615 22:41:13< AI0867> fabi_: did you compile?
20130615 22:41:22< AI0867> ah
20130615 22:41:35< AI0867> well, the ~RC stuff is hardcoded
20130615 22:41:55< AI0867> that may not be the best idea, but I was seeing magenta all over the place too
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20130615 22:45:00< fabi_> AI0867: Ah yes. Sorry to bother you. Indeed, my binary was not up to date for some reason. Using scons -c and rebuild fixed it. :-)
20130615 22:52:57< LordBob_> Oh yeah, thanks for taking care of this, AI0867.
20130615 22:54:30< AI0867> you may want to create/tweak some palettes
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20130615 22:58:48< LordBob_> Indeed, I was thinking just that. :)
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--- Log closed Sun Jun 16 00:00:11 2013