--- Log opened Tue Jun 11 00:00:57 2013
20130611 01:29:35-!- lobby [~wesnoth@wesnoth/bot/lobby] has joined #wesnoth
20130611 01:29:35-!- Topic for #wesnoth: Wesnoth User Channel | http://www.wesnoth.org/ | Latest stable version: 1.10.6 | Latest development version: 1.11.4 | Public IRC logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20130611 01:29:35-!- Topic set by lipkab [~lipk@host-91-147-212-174.biatv.hu] [Mon May 20 11:35:14 2013]
20130611 01:29:35[Users #wesnoth]
20130611 01:29:35[ _8680_         ] [ EliDupree] [ Ivanovic   ] [ MadMerlin  ] [ Samual         ] [ vultraz_laptop] 
20130611 01:29:35[ apoi           ] [ enchilado] [ iwaim_     ] [ melinath   ] [ shadowm        ] [ wesbot        ] 
20130611 01:29:35[ celticminstrel ] [ fabi__   ] [ janebot    ] [ molgrum    ] [ shadowm_desktop] [ Xjs|moonshine ] 
20130611 01:29:35[ Crendgrim      ] [ falcon`  ] [ Jetrel_new ] [ Muad_Dibber] [ Smar           ] [ zookeeper     ] 
20130611 01:29:35[ crimson_penguin] [ Gambit   ] [ knotwork   ] [ namad7     ] [ Soliton        ] 
20130611 01:29:35[ cyphase        ] [ hagabaka ] [ Laela      ] [ qmr        ] [ TC01           ] 
20130611 01:29:35[ DHost          ] [ happygrue] [ lobby      ] [ rei4dan    ] [ ToBeFree       ] 
20130611 01:29:35[ elias          ] [ Hulavuta ] [ loonycyborg] [ Rhonda     ] [ vultraz        ] 
20130611 01:29:35-!- Irssi: #wesnoth: Total of 44 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 44 normal]
20130611 01:29:36-!- Home page for #wesnoth: http://www.wesnoth.org
20130611 01:29:40-!- Channel #wesnoth created Sun Nov 26 07:42:43 2006
20130611 01:30:06< janebot> Twitter: @Wesnoth: http://t.co/U41mOtnC01 back online. [ Jun-10-2013 23:26 ] [ http://tinyurl.com/pwk3vxh ]
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20130611 01:38:13-!- Alikexhi3 [~Alikexhi4@64.156.122.78.rev.sfr.net] has joined #wesnoth
20130611 01:39:00< Alikexhi3> hi, I have a question : is there a limitation in pictures resolution for units (due to wesnoth core) ?
20130611 01:39:31< Alikexhi3> is there a lack of designers ?
20130611 01:40:59< zookeeper> there's a limit, but you'll get other visual problems long before you reach that i think
20130611 01:41:16< zookeeper> see the fire dragon for an example
20130611 01:44:23< Alikexhi3> zookeeper, well the fire dragon is only bigger I guess
20130611 01:45:17< Alikexhi3> for example if I take elvish fighter and make a better resolution picture of same size
20130611 01:45:23< Alikexhi3> will that work ?
20130611 01:45:37< shadowm> What do you mean with 'resolution' here?
20130611 01:46:18< Alikexhi3> shadowm, number of points per distance
20130611 01:46:39< shadowm> Wesnoth works with exactly one pixel by pixel and doesn't use physical measurements.
20130611 01:46:41< Alikexhi3> x*y
20130611 01:47:15< Alikexhi3> shadowm, so you mean I can't make a unit with more details of same size ?
20130611 01:47:25< zookeeper> correct
20130611 01:47:30< zookeeper> one pixel is one pixel
20130611 01:47:43< Alikexhi3> that's sad
20130611 01:47:53< zookeeper> one pixel of a wesnoth unit image will only take up one pixel on your screen (unless you zoom)
20130611 01:48:01< zookeeper> so what you're asking would be impossible
20130611 01:48:09< Laela> server seems to be up
20130611 01:48:15< Alikexhi3> Laela,  thx
20130611 01:48:25< Alikexhi3> Laela, I'm lanceleau, talking with you ^^
20130611 01:48:28< shadowm> Yeah, I announced so about 18 minutes ago.
20130611 01:48:46< Laela> i guessed that from your question, you used same wording
20130611 01:48:58< Alikexhi3> ^^
20130611 01:49:45< Alikexhi3> zookeeper, that's really sad, wesnoth has a really nice gameplay but it kind of hurt eyes (no offense)
20130611 01:50:26< zookeeper> sad or not, what you're asking for would still be impossible.
20130611 01:51:20< Alikexhi3> or have to remake the way wesnoth core handles pictures I guess
20130611 01:51:30< zookeeper> no, it's impossible.
20130611 01:51:34< Alikexhi3> why ?
20130611 01:51:50< Alikexhi3> due to the library it's using to do it ?
20130611 01:52:02< zookeeper> because you can't draw more detail than what your monitor can display. you are asking for exactly that.
20130611 01:52:40< zookeeper> the detail of our art is the exact same level of detail than what your screen is physically capable of displaying.
20130611 01:53:25< zookeeper> if there's a problem with the art, then it's a problem purely with the style or quality, not resolution
20130611 01:54:34< Alikexhi3> or method of screen display
20130611 01:56:02< Alikexhi3> zookeeper, imagine that : units drawed in higher size, then zoomed out
20130611 01:57:22< zookeeper> example: an elvish fighter is an image 72 pixels wide and 72 pixels high. simple enough. when it's drawn on your screen, it takes up exactly 72 pixels in width and height, no matter what the resolution of your display is. it is impossible to make the 72x72 image be of "higher resolution".
20130611 01:58:11 * zookeeper waits for someone to muddle the issue by mentioning subpixel rendering
20130611 01:58:48< Alikexhi3> zookeeper, what if you zoom in/out ?
20130611 01:58:54< Alikexhi3> size changes...
20130611 01:59:14< Alikexhi3> now if default zoom was a bit more out, with bigger images
20130611 01:59:24< zookeeper> size changes because the game scales everything up or down
20130611 01:59:25< Alikexhi3> that would make bigger resolution XD
20130611 01:59:27< shadowm> zookeeper: But subpixel rendering is a thing used for vector formats like fonts.
20130611 01:59:52< Laela> Is there way to make wesnoth start in highest resolution possible and not read those values from preferences
20130611 02:00:06< zookeeper> shadowm, sure, but nothing would prevent one from making and using subpixeled images too, AFAIK
20130611 02:00:18< zookeeper> Alikexhi3, sure
20130611 02:00:52< zookeeper> err, not
20130611 02:01:27< zookeeper> Alikexhi3, as i said, you just have a problem with the style of the art. nothing wrong with that, but it's just that.
20130611 02:01:30< shadowm> Laela: You can pass the --resolution <width>x<height> command line switch or just edit the values (xresolution and yresolution) in the preferences file.
20130611 02:02:12< Alikexhi3> zookeeper, not the style, I have to zoom out if I don't want my eyes to be hurt
20130611 02:02:23< zookeeper> ok, in practise i suppose subpixeled art would be very impractical because different displays have different pixel ordering etc
20130611 02:02:31< Alikexhi3> zookeeper, it's like a png file transformed into a low quality jpeg
20130611 02:02:44< shadowm> Alikexhi3: How does zooming out help? That actually makes units much smaller.
20130611 02:02:52< shadowm> Or did you mean zooming _in_=
20130611 02:03:16< zookeeper> Alikexhi3, i take it that you mean that you prefer when everything is smoother or more blurry, yes? rather than "too" crisp and clear?
20130611 02:03:26< Alikexhi3> shadowm, zoom in 10 times and you will understand why I zoom out :D
20130611 02:03:54< shadowm> No, I don't.
20130611 02:05:32< shadowm> I'm just going to say that if you are using a very small screen with large resolution (e.g. small laptops and such), then yeah, that's not ideal for playing games.
20130611 02:05:38< Alikexhi3> zookeeper, well it's like if there was smoke or fog on units
20130611 02:05:43< shadowm> Or reading lots of text.
20130611 02:06:17< Alikexhi3> shadowm, what if all hexes were bigger (more pixels) and zoomed out ?
20130611 02:06:33< shadowm> Then you'd be able to fit far less content on the screen.
20130611 02:06:47< shadowm> Oh, zoomed out you say?
20130611 02:06:56< shadowm> Well, everything would be blurry.
20130611 02:07:25< shadowm> Which is kind of contrary to the purpose of the art style in use here.
20130611 02:07:41< Alikexhi3> well it's already blurry :/
20130611 02:08:54< shadowm> Not on my 23" 1920x1080 screen, or my 14.1" 1280x800 screen, or my 15" 1280x800 screen. *shrug*.
20130611 02:09:35< zookeeper> are you sure your display isn't just broken? D: "blurry" really doesn't describe wesnoth in general
20130611 02:10:15< shadowm> Very dirty (internally, not externally) LCD screens certainly make everything look blurry.
20130611 02:10:28< zookeeper> maybe you're playing full-screen on a non-native resolution and your display scales the content up/down on its own, which would make stuff blurry
20130611 02:10:50< zookeeper> if so, then see if windowed mode looks better
20130611 02:11:28< Alikexhi3> zookeeper, I'm playing windowed mode
20130611 02:11:33< zookeeper> ok
20130611 02:12:04< Alikexhi3> but even with max resolution + fullscreen it's steal blurry
20130611 02:12:46< shadowm> It's not one of those Apple retina devices either, right?
20130611 02:12:48< zookeeper> if we assume that you're really using the word blurry right, then there's something wrong with your OS or display or something else.
20130611 02:14:14< Alikexhi3> I'm playing other games without any problem
20130611 02:14:33< Alikexhi3> my OS doesn't have any problem too
20130611 02:14:55< Alikexhi3> wesnoth picures are like low resolution, that's the problem in fact...
20130611 02:15:36< zookeeper> which pictures?
20130611 02:15:42< zookeeper> units only? terrain? everything?
20130611 02:16:05< Alikexhi3> terrain has really been improved since 0.9
20130611 02:16:07< Laela> does command line wesnoth work like :   start /b /d "_path to folder_" wesnoth.exe
20130611 02:16:13< Alikexhi3> but no units
20130611 02:17:18< zookeeper> so only units are "low resolution"? if so, then as i said, that's simply you not liking the art style.
20130611 02:17:33< shadowm> Laela: If you are on Windows it's more advisable that you check the Wesnoth desktop or start menu shortcut's properties (namely, in the second page of the properties window) for the full command line to use or modify.
20130611 02:18:27< Alikexhi3> zookeeper,  I really like the art style
20130611 02:18:41< Alikexhi3> zookeeper, only I don't like low-resolution pictures
20130611 02:19:12< shadowm> Alikexhi3: But that _is_ part of the art style here.
20130611 02:19:34< Alikexhi3> ...
20130611 02:19:38< zookeeper> yeah, except that the units are not low resolution.
20130611 02:20:34< shadowm> Well, they are generally 72x72 and one could say that's their 'resolution'.
20130611 02:20:42< Alikexhi3> I'm pretty sure that if units were drawed twice bigger then made smaller they would look better
20130611 02:20:45< shadowm> Otherwise 'resolution' doesn't really fit the context.
20130611 02:21:06< Alikexhi3> I mean zoomed out
20130611 02:21:11< shadowm> Alikexhi3: They'd become blurry.
20130611 02:21:24< Alikexhi3> they are already blurry they just would be less :D
20130611 02:21:26< zookeeper> Alikexhi3, well, try that yourself. take a unit image, scale it up 200% in whatever picture editor you have, and then scale them back to normal size.
20130611 02:21:36< zookeeper> anyways, i gotta go to bed
20130611 02:21:40< Alikexhi3> zookeeper, 
20130611 02:21:46< Alikexhi3> zookeeper, last word I wanna say
20130611 02:21:51< zookeeper> yes?
20130611 02:22:08< Alikexhi3> zookeeper, you draw a unit of 140*140, you make it same size (zoomed out) it will be better...
20130611 02:22:11< _8680_> Alikexhi3: See also this forum thread: <http://r.wesnoth.org/t32273>, especially this post: <http://r.wesnoth.org/p469854>.
20130611 02:22:21< shadowm> Blurry when using some scale algorithm, anyway. If you used narest neighbor or such you'd simply lose detail.
20130611 02:22:40< shadowm> And the result would be pretty much the same thing you have now in most other respects.
20130611 02:22:50< shadowm> Er, *nearest
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20130611 02:23:07< Alikexhi3> shadowm, so the problem come from the way wesnoth handles images
20130611 02:23:12< zookeeper> Alikexhi3, scale the fire dragon down to 72x72 and see whether it looks better than all the other units. if it does, then again, you just have a problem with the art style.
20130611 02:23:22< zookeeper> good luck, shadowm
20130611 02:23:24-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit []
20130611 02:23:50< Alikexhi3> scaling down is changing resolution...
20130611 02:24:10< shadowm> Again, 'resolution' doesn't really fit the context.
20130611 02:24:11< Alikexhi3> if I take a very detailed picture and transform it to 10*10 pixels yeah it will looks bad...
20130611 02:24:33< Alikexhi3> shadowm, x*y = resolution for me
20130611 02:24:52< shadowm> Okay, in that case what I said above about blurriness still applies.
20130611 02:24:58< Alikexhi3> The display resolution of a digital television, computer monitor or display device is the number of distinct pixels in each dimension that can be displayed
20130611 02:25:05< Alikexhi3> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Display_resolution
20130611 02:25:11< shadowm> Yes, I am aware of that.
20130611 02:25:42< shadowm> But neither Wesnoth nor the image files it uses work with any notion of your display device's physical measurements.
20130611 02:25:46< Alikexhi3> shadowm, so what you mean is like if I draw a unit of 140*140 then zoom out, it will be the same as if I convert it to 70*70 ?
20130611 02:26:24< shadowm> ... Depends on how zooming is implemented in this case.
20130611 02:26:30< _8680_> Alikexhi3: Also see also the “Less is more” section of the post after the one I linked.
20130611 02:27:53-!- Blueblaze [~Blueblaze@adsl-99-158-45-47.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wesnoth
20130611 02:28:38< Alikexhi3> shadowm, on a picture viewer it would look different, a 140*140 image and a 70*70 (for the exact same image)
20130611 02:28:48< shadowm> So they would on Wesnoth.
20130611 02:29:03< Alikexhi3> so the answer is yes
20130611 02:29:16< shadowm> No, that doesn't answer your question.
20130611 02:29:22< Alikexhi3> 1:38 : <Alikexhi3> hi, I have a question : is there a limitation in pictures resolution for units (due to wesnoth core) ?
20130611 02:29:44< Alikexhi3> problem of the way it's implemented in wesnoth
20130611 02:29:50< Alikexhi3> which is equivalent to yes
20130611 02:29:50< shadowm> There is a limitation in consequence of an artistic choice.
20130611 02:30:02< Alikexhi3> it's a choice ?
20130611 02:30:05< shadowm> That is, hexes have to be 72x72, and so have to be their contents (most of the time).
20130611 02:30:10< shadowm> And yes, this was an artistic choice.
20130611 02:30:45< Alikexhi3> so drawers have to scale down their pictures to make them look bad so it looks like "vintage low rez picture" ? XD
20130611 02:31:02< _8680_> Alikexhi3: Please read the thread I linked.
20130611 02:31:19< Alikexhi3> _8680_, I'll do
20130611 02:31:42< shadowm> Artists do not scale down unit pictures.
20130611 02:32:04< shadowm> Well, some add-on authors who don't grasp pixel art very well do, and the result is blurry.
20130611 02:32:16< shadowm> I've seen and even done it before.
20130611 02:32:36< shadowm> Everyone else works at the "native resolution", meaning they work directly on 72x72.
20130611 02:33:10< shadowm> Again, this is for unit images. Portraits and terrain art are done differently -- far differently, I'd say.
20130611 02:33:30< Alikexhi3> so the limitation is a choice ?
20130611 02:34:00< shadowm> I answered that question above. Yes, it is a choice, and no, it is not an absolute limitation.
20130611 02:34:23< Alikexhi3> shadowm, when you zoom on a horse you can see to the details the image has been scaled down and transformed blurry to fit in 72*72
20130611 02:34:34< shadowm> No, it hasn't.
20130611 02:34:41< shadowm> I know the artist and he doesn't do that.
20130611 02:35:33< shadowm> And for your information, zooming in an image that was much larger and then transformed permanently into a 72x72 image would not reveal hidden details.
20130611 02:35:48< shadowm> These images do not have extra data that would allow such a thing.
20130611 02:35:59< shadowm> In the best case you'll notice blended pixels all over the place suggesting lost details.
20130611 02:37:29< shadowm> Now, if your game screen was actually originally zoomed out to begin with, that'd be a different issue.
20130611 02:37:40< Alikexhi3> no even with default zoom
20130611 02:38:32< Alikexhi3> shadowm, if I zoom in I can see light reflection on elvish fighter, a belt
20130611 02:38:38< Alikexhi3> can't see that with default zoom
20130611 02:38:48< shadowm> Then your screen isn't good enough. :)
20130611 02:38:59< Alikexhi3> 1280*1024
20130611 02:39:03< Alikexhi3> 17"
20130611 02:39:07< Alikexhi3> not so bad
20130611 02:39:13< shadowm> Then it might be dirty.
20130611 02:39:38< shadowm> Internally. An LCD screen has a few transparent layers on top of the actual display surface.
20130611 02:40:01-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth
20130611 02:40:14< Laela> tried few command line things like -t and -m , but i would like to know what it can do that normally cant be done
20130611 02:42:37< Alikexhi3> shadowm, so if it's due to my LCD, why a 170*170 picture zoomed out with image viewer looks better than 70*70 ? and why it's not blurry :D => because it comes from the way wesnoth handles pictures
20130611 02:42:45< shadowm> Laela: A lot of things that are usually only of interest to people diagnosing or solving problems with the game or add-on content, as well as some options that alter's the game's initialization like the aforementioned --resolution switch.
20130611 02:42:47< Alikexhi3> not my screen
20130611 02:43:05< Alikexhi3> (changed screen and computers a lot of times since wesnoth 0.9....)
20130611 02:43:07< shadowm> Alikexhi3: Have you tried checking Wesnoth's own graphics on the image viewer?
20130611 02:43:17< Alikexhi3> yes
20130611 02:43:29< shadowm> And how does that compare to in-game?
20130611 02:43:46< Alikexhi3> well as blurry, because of 74*74
20130611 02:44:32< Alikexhi3> because of the scaled down pictures...
20130611 02:44:35< shadowm> ... 72x72.
20130611 02:44:41< shadowm> And they are not scaled down!
20130611 02:44:49< shadowm> That's their natural size.
20130611 02:44:51< Alikexhi3> (80 % sure they are scaled down by artist to fit in 72*72)
20130611 02:45:02< shadowm> Okay, no, seriously.
20130611 02:45:08< Alikexhi3> well ok
20130611 02:45:14< shadowm> Unless you are checking some add-on's graphics, that's not how it works.
20130611 02:45:14< Alikexhi3> shadowm, maybe you're right
20130611 02:45:32< shadowm> I am saying this as someone who has done some minor art for the game. :|
20130611 02:45:40< shadowm> As well as plenty of art for add-ons.
20130611 02:46:13< Alikexhi3> shadowm, now last question : is there a way to make 140*140 picture drawed by someone handled by wesnoth with a zoom out by default (only on the unit)
20130611 02:46:36< shadowm> No.
20130611 02:46:52< shadowm> But it can be scaled down for rendering, which is pretty much the same thing.
20130611 02:46:53< Alikexhi3> :/
20130611 02:47:02< Alikexhi3> not really...
20130611 02:47:06< shadowm> Yes, it is.
20130611 02:47:24< Alikexhi3> shadowm, try this : take a wesnoth picture, scale it down to 10*10
20130611 02:47:27< shadowm> Wesnoth's zooming in/out uses a similar (if not the same) algorithm used for scaling in-game.
20130611 02:47:47< shadowm> If you like how Wesnoth does zooming, you will most likely like how it does scaling.
20130611 02:47:48< Alikexhi3> now open the same picture with 72*72 and zoom out
20130611 02:47:55< Alikexhi3> (with image editor)
20130611 02:47:59< Alikexhi3> which one will lokk better ?
20130611 02:48:35< Alikexhi3> 10*10 will look blurry, 72*72 will look better
20130611 02:48:40< shadowm> Okay, first of all.
20130611 02:49:05< shadowm> Pretty much every application may use different algorithms for scaling.
20130611 02:49:17< Alikexhi3> so only way would be to change the algorithm...
20130611 02:49:20< shadowm> Pretty much every application may use different algorithms for zooming.
20130611 02:49:28< shadowm> And in an image editor's case, they may not even be the same.
20130611 02:49:44< Alikexhi3> so would have to use another lib to be able to do that ?
20130611 02:49:46< shadowm> For example, I use an image editor that allows me to scale using nearest neighbor, linear, bilinear, or synczos.
20130611 02:50:12< shadowm> That same image editor zooms in using nearest neighbor for compatible factors and linear for incompatible ones.
20130611 02:50:47< shadowm> So 150% zoom looks awfully blurry, but 200% zoom looks better for pixel art.
20130611 02:51:12< shadowm> I meant cubic above, not bilinear.
20130611 02:51:44< shadowm> So if I use the cubic scale algorithm to scale up the 72x72 elvish fighter to 144x144, the result at 100% zoom is awfully blurry.
20130611 02:52:03< Alikexhi3> limitation due to libcairo ?
20130611 02:52:03< shadowm> Even though the resulting dimensions match the zoom factor.
20130611 02:52:08< shadowm> ... No.
20130611 02:52:28< shadowm> No limitations here. I am just pointing out that zooming and scaling up images does not necessarily yield the same results on every application.
20130611 02:52:48< shadowm> Also, I didn't mention what image editor I am using here or what rendering backend it uses.
20130611 02:53:05< Alikexhi3> I talk about wesnoth rendering...
20130611 02:53:35< shadowm> Wesnoth uses its own rendering backend and the final results are sent pretty much directly to the OS.
20130611 02:53:37< Alikexhi3> librairo2 "The Cairo 2D vector graphics library "
20130611 02:53:50< Alikexhi3> so why does it implement libcairo ?
20130611 02:53:52< shadowm> cairo is only used for text here.
20130611 02:53:57< Alikexhi3> really ?
20130611 02:54:00< shadowm> Yes.
20130611 02:54:29< Alikexhi3> what if another lib with opengl rendering stuff were use instead ?
20130611 02:55:09< Alikexhi3> drawing point per point is like...trying to remake something that exist...
20130611 02:55:33< Alikexhi3> I wonder how much rendering libraries with efficients methods exists...
20130611 02:55:45< shadowm> I don't get your statement.
20130611 02:56:03< shadowm> Yes, there are myriads of ways to draw pixels and they are all trivial.
20130611 02:56:03< Alikexhi3> making from scratch something that already exist in better is not always the most efficient thing
20130611 02:56:22< shadowm> Now, doing fancier drawing is not something Wesnoth does.
20130611 02:56:52< Alikexhi3> well I mean about scaling/zooming/rendering
20130611 02:56:53< shadowm> Wesnoth just blits images and the results of using cairo to render text onto a final framebuffer used by the OS and that's it.
20130611 02:57:07< Alikexhi3> ok
20130611 02:57:28< shadowm> So yes, it uses its own scaling algorithm, which is not very good, and which is why it's not used a lot except for portraits.
20130611 02:58:17< Alikexhi3> why the one use for portraits isn't used for units ?
20130611 02:58:22< Alikexhi3> used)
20130611 02:58:24< shadowm> Because it's not very good.
20130611 02:58:37< Alikexhi3> would go out of memmory ?
20130611 02:58:50< shadowm> No, the results don't look very good.
20130611 02:58:52< shadowm> Visually.
20130611 02:59:02< shadowm> It _can_ be used for units, but there is no need to because units are _not_ scaled down/up by default.
20130611 02:59:28< shadowm> There is simply no need to do that because units are provided in their native format that fits the hex grid.
20130611 02:59:52< shadowm> That is, 72x72 RGBA images.
20130611 03:00:28< shadowm> And you don't like how the art looks, but it's not the game engine's fault as you saw in an image viewer yourself.
20130611 03:00:48< Alikexhi3> well I really like the style
20130611 03:00:50< Alikexhi3> of units
20130611 03:01:07< Alikexhi3> only they would be better in 14*140 :)
20130611 03:01:14< shadowm> The dimensions _are_ part of the art style.
20130611 03:02:11< Alikexhi3> I wouldn't sum up wesnoth art style to low-resolution pictures
20130611 03:02:17< Alikexhi3> for me it's another aspect
20130611 03:02:22< Alikexhi3> the style is really nice
20130611 03:03:00< Alikexhi3> well I guess it would look better with another rendering method
20130611 03:03:38< Alikexhi3> I would really love the same units in 140*140
20130611 03:04:12< Alikexhi3> but If I have to modify wesnoth algorithm about how it handles pictures, then I will not do it...
20130611 03:04:42< Alikexhi3> just hoping someone will take care of that one day
20130611 03:06:01< shadowm> No.
20130611 03:06:16< shadowm> Wesnoth handles pictures by just rendering them as they are. That's it.
20130611 03:06:30< shadowm> The thing you would have to modify is the hex tile mask and how it's used in the code.
20130611 03:06:51< shadowm> Otherwise you'd just have a horde of Fire Dragons.
20130611 03:07:04< shadowm> Or flock maybe?
20130611 03:09:09< Alikexhi3> :D
20130611 03:10:54< Alikexhi3> well anyway tahnk you for your answers
20130611 03:11:03< Alikexhi3> and sorry for my poor english...
20130611 03:11:05< Alikexhi3> hé !
20130611 03:11:50< Alikexhi3> (sorry wrong window)
20130611 03:13:30< Alikexhi3> bye shadowm 
20130611 03:13:55< Alikexhi3> (that was interesting, I'll see now what I can try about all that)
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20130611 03:14:37< shadowm> Okay.
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20130611 08:58:33< zookeeper> shadowm, i see you enjoyed the discussion.
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20130611 08:59:40< shadowm> Meh.
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20130611 16:54:44< Laela> i looked http://wiki.wesnoth.org/CompilingWesnothOnWindows , where i find that visual studio
20130611 16:55:14< Laela> as it is VC9 for me i think it should be 2008
20130611 16:56:22< Soliton> visual studio is provided by microsoft.
20130611 17:05:39< Laela> yes, but hoe to get it
20130611 17:05:41< Laela> hoe
20130611 17:05:43< Laela> how
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20130611 17:30:33< Soliton> you go to microsoft's website and get the express edition or something? i don't really understand the question.
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20130611 20:57:14< JesseH> Who is up for a game or two
20130611 20:57:24< bumbadadabum> depends
20130611 20:57:36< JesseH> On?
20130611 20:58:00< bumbadadabum> who else is playing
20130611 20:58:23< JesseH> 1v1 is fine with me
20130611 20:58:34< JesseH> If someone else wants to play, its ok
20130611 20:59:00< bumbadadabum> I don't really feel like a 1v1 tbh
20130611 20:59:21< JesseH> Hulavuta, You in?
20130611 21:00:28< bumbadadabum> [20:59] [Away] Hulavuta is away: I'm not here right now
20130611 21:00:49< bumbadadabum> I think he's not there
20130611 21:06:26< celticminstrel> Not really in a Wesnoth mood right now.
20130611 21:07:01< JesseH> :c
20130611 21:07:11 * JesseH is off to take a nap
20130611 21:07:46< celticminstrel> Well, goodbye then.
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20130611 21:38:00< Hulavuta> >_>
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20130611 21:38:24< bumbadadabum> <_<
20130611 21:38:52< Gambit> >_>
20130611 21:39:12< bumbadadabum> V_V
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20130611 21:52:07< oldtopman> ^-^
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20130611 21:53:41< Laela_> when should i use | in variables, how it works?
20130611 21:54:45< zookeeper> it marks the end of the variable name
20130611 21:55:20< zookeeper> _"Hi $playername!" would mean the game tries to use the variable called "playername!", so you'll need to use _"Hi $playername|!"
20130611 21:55:58< zookeeper> you only need it if the variable name is followed by something other than a space
20130611 21:56:07< Laela_> ok
20130611 21:57:34< zookeeper> there's also this: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/EventWML#Delayed_Variable_Substitution_Example but that's somewhat advanced stuff
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20130611 22:08:35< Laela_> I am able to understand that link after some thinking but I would not use that way in my files.
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--- Log closed Wed Jun 12 00:00:58 2013