--- Log opened Sat Jun 15 00:00:33 2013
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20130615 01:14:58< Hulavuta> wesbot: seen artisticdude
20130615 01:14:59< wesbot> Hulavuta: The person with the nick artisticdude last spoke 7h 23m ago.  7h 8m ago was here and on the channel #wesnoth-dev with the message: Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.
20130615 01:15:16< Hulavuta> wesbot: seen zarel
20130615 01:15:17< wesbot> Hulavuta: Sorry, I don't know of zarel.
20130615 01:15:43< bumbadadabum> Hulavuta: Zarel doesn't go to these channels afaik
20130615 01:16:00< Hulavuta> don't talk to me
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20130615 01:16:08< bumbadadabum> wat
20130615 01:16:16< shadowm> Hulavuta: How rude.
20130615 01:16:26< Hulavuta> lol
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20130615 01:52:19< Laela> can i use find_in= to find places where to clear labels?
20130615 01:55:36< shadowm> If the WML action in question accepts a standard location filter, you can use _all_ standard location filter features.
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20130615 01:56:20< shadowm> It seems [label] does not, though. You'd have to store locations with [store_locations] and iterate over them instead.
20130615 01:58:17< Alikexhi3> wesbot: seen writing-correct-english
20130615 01:58:17< wesbot> Alikexhi3: Sorry, I don't know of writing-correct-english.
20130615 01:58:21< Alikexhi3> :D
20130615 01:58:28< Alikexhi3> (sorry)
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20130615 02:00:29< Alikexhi3> shadowm, red a bit more about pixel art, now I understand
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20130615 02:02:47< Alikexhi3> shadowm, now I can understand the huge amount of work to draw just one unit !
20130615 02:03:17< Alikexhi3> shadowm, and I also understand why it's blurry :)
20130615 02:03:26< shadowm> It's not blurry.
20130615 02:03:48< Alikexhi3> maybe google translation isn't good enough to translate it so
20130615 02:04:07< Alikexhi3> blurry would be like smoke or fog for me, right ?
20130615 02:04:56< Alikexhi3> the brain recreate the missing details with imagination, that's the idea, no ? 
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20130615 02:06:37< Alikexhi3> (like a cloud of pixel representing a shield will be interpreted by the brain by a shield and the image in mind will be different for each person, is that the concept ?)
20130615 02:06:58< shadowm> I don't think I could accurately define 'blurry' or tell whether something seen through smoke or fog looks blurry or not.
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20130615 02:07:16< shadowm> But steamed up glass is a more broadly understood example.
20130615 02:07:59< Alikexhi3> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/79/BlurryDavid.jpg/220px-BlurryDavid.jpg
20130615 02:08:04< Alikexhi3> for me this is blurry picture
20130615 02:08:12< shadowm> Yes, it is.
20130615 02:08:33< Alikexhi3> for me units are a bit like blurry 
20130615 02:08:54< Alikexhi3> but isn't that a wanted effect ?
20130615 02:09:25< Alikexhi3> so you can imagine the blurry part with your own representation, no ?
20130615 02:09:48< Alikexhi3> (isn't that the goal of pixel art ?)
20130615 02:09:56< shadowm> You are meant to extrapolate some things, but the outlines are decidedly not blurry.
20130615 02:13:05< Alikexhi3> the outlines are the lines that give the shape of the unit ?
20130615 02:13:20< Alikexhi3> (like the black border)
20130615 02:17:50< shadowm> Yes.
20130615 02:18:08< Alikexhi3> shadowm, true
20130615 02:18:17< Alikexhi3> but maybe it's related to what you said
20130615 02:18:27< Alikexhi3> scaling seems to be hard on pixel art
20130615 02:18:36< Alikexhi3> and they are rescaled
20130615 02:18:38< Alikexhi3> in all case
20130615 02:18:58< Alikexhi3> so maybe it comes from there
20130615 02:19:40< Alikexhi3> play the game in 800*600 or 1280*1024 wouldn't be the same scaling => picture are rescaled
20130615 02:19:48< Alikexhi3> => blurry :)
20130615 02:19:54< Alikexhi3> don't you agree ?
20130615 02:20:23< Alikexhi3> it seems images in 100 % zoom aren't really blurry, as you said shadowm 
20130615 02:20:33< Alikexhi3> (I mean with image editor)
20130615 02:20:52< Laela> does labels team(or immutability) matter when i am trying to set them to nothing later?
20130615 02:21:30< shadowm> They are not rescaled in all case.
20130615 02:21:37< shadowm> I mean in all cases, no, they are not rescaled in all cases.
20130615 02:22:39< Alikexhi3> one of the resolution would have the good scale you mean ?
20130615 02:22:44< shadowm> Laela: No, the [label] WML action ignores that kind of thing, although you can set what team can see the label or whether players can alter it. ( http://wiki.wesnoth.org/InterfaceActionsWML#.5Blabel.5D )
20130615 02:23:39< shadowm> Alikexhi3: The default in-game zoom is 100%. No sprites are rescaled at that setting except where content creators have made use of the scaling function explicitly.
20130615 02:23:51< Alikexhi3> shadowm, when I search "pixel art" I find "blurry" associated to "scaling algorithms"
20130615 02:24:27< Alikexhi3> looks like it's very hard to manipulate these pictures
20130615 02:25:10< Alikexhi3> shadowm, if me and my friend have 4/3 and 16/9 screen with same resolution, will that still be true ?
20130615 02:25:24< Alikexhi3> in one case there will be a problem, right ?
20130615 02:26:39< Alikexhi3> shadowm, 100 % zoom in 800*600, 1024*768 and 1280*1024 wouldn't be the same size of units...right ?
20130615 02:27:06< Alikexhi3> = rescaling
20130615 02:27:38< _8680_> Alikexhi3: No, a larger resolution just means you see *more* of the map, not that you see the same area of map at a higher zoom.
20130615 02:28:06< Laela> got what i wanted, but going to look why it didnt work before
20130615 02:28:20< Alikexhi3> _8680_, why I see more of the map ? because hex size is different.How is called chaning size ? rescaling
20130615 02:28:23< Alikexhi3> no ?
20130615 02:28:58< _8680_> Whatever your resolution, the tiles and units occupy the same quantity of pixels.
20130615 02:29:26< Alikexhi3> but not the same size on the screen right ?
20130615 02:31:04< shadowm> Alikexhi3: The difference between playing Wesnoth on 1280x800 with 100% zoom and Wesnoth on 1920x1080 with 100% zoom is that you will be able to see a larger area of the game map. The pixel contents don't change.
20130615 02:31:29< shadowm> Like when you resize your file manager's window. Come on, it's not that hard to grasp.
20130615 02:31:36< _8680_> So if your resolution is 1280×1024 pixels, you can fit… about 17.7×14.2 units in there, assuming each unit is 72×72 pixels and ignoring the borders and sidebar and such.
20130615 02:31:49< Alikexhi3> "Alikexhi3> but not the same size on the screen right ?"
20130615 02:31:56< Alikexhi3> => YES
20130615 02:32:02< Alikexhi3> => not same scale
20130615 02:32:08< Alikexhi3> => blurry :D
20130615 02:33:03< Alikexhi3> I mean, if a unit looks really clean with one size but you change that size it will become blurry in all case
20130615 02:33:04< shadowm> Okay, go ahead and stick to your erroneous conclusion.
20130615 02:33:07< Alikexhi3> with pixel art
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20130615 02:33:39< shadowm> Yes, most cases, but that's not what's going on when you resize the Wesnoth window.
20130615 02:33:53< Laela> shadowm: i just did test with http://pastebin.com/4KKeBESy and at turn 8 labels were removed correctly and at turn 4 they stayed, is that bug?
20130615 02:34:04< Laela> side 8 and side 4
20130615 02:34:12< shadowm> Alikexhi3: Now, if you attempt to play fullscreen at a resolution that's not your monitor's native resolution then of course everything will look blurry, pixel art or otherwise.
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20130615 02:34:44< Alikexhi3> what I call size
20130615 02:34:52< Alikexhi3> is what you can talk in millimeters
20130615 02:35:11< Alikexhi3> a unit wouldn't be same size in real milimeters on the screen depending on the resolution
20130615 02:35:17< Alikexhi3> => blurry if bigger
20130615 02:35:26< Alikexhi3> because of space beetweem pixels
20130615 02:35:34< _8680_> Alikexhi3: Then yes, units would be displayed at different sizes depending on your resolution.
20130615 02:35:34< shadowm> Laela: "side N turn" events do not trigger on turn N, they trigger on any turn number for the side with the given number.
20130615 02:35:43< Laela> yes
20130615 02:35:51< Laela> i meant it happen every turn
20130615 02:36:13< Alikexhi3> _8680_, using 2 times more points for same size will look better right ?
20130615 02:36:17< Alikexhi3> than 1/2 point
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20130615 02:36:22< Alikexhi3> agree ?
20130615 02:36:28< _8680_> Alikexhi3: What do you mean by that?
20130615 02:36:38< Alikexhi3> pixels are LED
20130615 02:36:50< Alikexhi3> like a light you turn on or off
20130615 02:37:12< shadowm> Laela: So the first event that triggers on every side 2 turn deletes the avoid_loc_2 variable or container that you reference on side 4 turn.
20130615 02:37:47< shadowm> That means the side 4 turn event will attempt to alter a label at x,y=0,0 unless there's some other thing going on between both events that's not included in the paste.
20130615 02:37:48< Alikexhi3> _8680_, ok what I mean is just that the scaling "in millimeters" would be the same => it will affect the picture
20130615 02:38:04< Alikexhi3> wouldn't be the same sorry)
20130615 02:38:16< shadowm> Laela: Also, see lines 12 and 13 in the paste. Line 12 is somewhat broken.
20130615 02:38:17< Laela> side 2 turn deletes data and it is recreated by player at that turn, and at side 4 turn that data is used, same way for 6 and 8
20130615 02:39:13< Laela> forgot to change back, tested if x,y= something is same as those on different lines when looking for problem
20130615 02:39:21< Alikexhi3> _8680_, my conclusion is on the same principe, coding the image with 2 times more point would look better (but would ask a lot of work !)
20130615 02:39:46< Alikexhi3> (replace coding by drawing)
20130615 02:40:04< _8680_> Alikexhi3: Possibly. Depends on the style being aimed for.
20130615 02:40:14< shadowm> Laela: In general, a,b,n=a_value,b_value,n_value means the same thing as having a=a_value b=b_value n=n_value on separate lines.
20130615 02:40:45< shadowm> Laela: So, are you completely sure avoid_loc_2 has the data you need by the time the side 4 turn handler runs?
20130615 02:42:09< Laela> yes, side 2 is player and selects locations where allied AI is not allowed to move that turn
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20130615 02:43:05< shadowm> I'd add some [message] statements to the side 4 turn handler's loop to check what x,y the [label] action is using every time.
20130615 02:43:15< Alikexhi3> _8680_, more "vintage" with less points, that's what you mean ?
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20130615 02:43:39< Laela> refreshed to make sure that line 13 wasnt problem, and still got same result, when there was team_name then worked, else label stayed
20130615 02:43:44< _8680_> Alikexhi3: That would be one reason, yes. (I don’t know of any others.)
20130615 02:44:23< Laela> i used {DEBUG_MSG $avoid_loc_6[$i].x} for that
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20130615 02:46:37< shadowm> Laela: Okay, then it might be that someone overlooked something about how the team_name part of [label] works when writing the documentation. I am guessing the label is set with a team_name between both event handlers?
20130615 02:46:49< Laela> yes
20130615 02:48:28< shadowm> It seems like the engine internally maintains separate lists of labels for every team, so it might be that a label associated to a team for a given x,y location takes precedence over a teamless label when displaying it.
20130615 02:48:52< shadowm> It doesn't appear to check for multiple labels for the same location either.
20130615 02:50:42< shadowm> Also, it appears the correct way to delete a label is setting it to the empty string (text= or text=""), not a string containing a single whitespace.
20130615 02:52:18< Laela> that was what i tried first
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20130615 10:39:24< JesseH> who is up for a game
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20130615 18:25:01< Ruk> Hi
20130615 18:25:32< Ruk> Hello, anyone here ?
20130615 18:41:29< Laela> hi
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20130615 18:42:41< Ruk> Hi
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20130615 18:53:26< Ruk> <Ruk> I can't connect to main server
20130615 18:53:41< Ruk> I can ping it
20130615 18:54:13< Ruk> I also can't even open the webpage without proxy
20130615 18:54:30< Ruk> I seem to me that I've been banned for unknow reason
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20130615 21:09:32< Laela> What kind of descriptions is this message about? Version 1.11.4 : Invalid WML found: Descriptions should no longer include the name as the first line. (526)
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20130615 21:48:40< Laela> I suppose it is for weapon special and ability definitions, anywhere else?
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--- Log closed Sun Jun 16 00:00:11 2013