--- Log opened Thu Jul 04 00:00:26 2013
--- Day changed Thu Jul 04 2013
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20130704 02:10:55< irker419> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master bce61017f1bc / data/ (5 files in 3 dirs): New Hang Out Micro AI and test scenario http://git.io/uwi0rg
20130704 02:37:07< nurupo> https://github.com/blog/1547-release-your-software
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20130704 02:59:27< mattsc> vultraz: the Hang Out MAI test scenario combines the Hang Out and the Messenger AI, so I know it works.  Whether it works the way how you want it for your scenario is a different question...
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20130704 03:00:33< mattsc> I actually think that it's kind of fun to watch the AI in that scenario - but that's just a sign of how easily I'm amused.  ;)  (and I don't mean from a playing perspective, it's pretty lame in that respect; that's not the point of the test scenarios)
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20130704 03:44:50< irker419> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master 969c6aef03c6 / data/ai/micro_ais/ais/mai_messenger_escort_engine.lua: Messenger MAI: keep messenger at final waypoint once it gets there http://git.io/fZ-xRw
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20130704 04:16:07< irker419> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master bd76e51af962 / data/ai/micro_ais/ais/mai_animals_engine.lua: Multipack Wolves MAI bug fix: move a misplaced 'end' http://git.io/LbDrXA
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20130704 04:30:58< AI0867> mordante: clang still produces warnings regarding the draw function in various classes: https://api.travis-ci.org/jobs/8708948/log.txt?deansi=true
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20130704 05:06:06< irker419> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master 5e676307dc72 / data/ai/micro_ais/ (12 files in 2 dirs): Micro AIs: consistently use underscores in ids and file names http://git.io/a4Wmlw
20130704 05:06:08< irker419> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master 447cbc0ecb48 / data/ai/micro_ais/scenarios/ (5 files): Micro AIs: consistently use underscores in ids and files names, Part 2 http://git.io/jD5FOA
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20130704 05:43:51< irker419> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master 5b86d489f138 / data/ai/micro_ais/ais/micro_ais_wml_tags.lua: Micro AIs: make CA names consistent with eval/exec function names (and thus uniq http://git.io/lutXrg
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20130704 08:39:31< shadowm> AI0867: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SingleUnitWML [status] doesn't include not_living or the split versions from 1.11.x.
20130704 08:40:14< shadowm> Not sure if they belong there or they are exclusively an [effect] thing.
20130704 08:40:43< shadowm> Also, uh, I assume filtering on units with status.not_living=yes still works after the split? :/
20130704 08:43:32< shadowm> Okay, checked the C++, it seems it does.
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20130704 09:53:24< trademark> hello
20130704 09:53:31< vultraz> herro
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20130704 10:36:09< trademark> In a i18n server context, does the server send translated strings or does the client translate the received strings?
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20130704 14:42:51< thunderstruck> fendrin: Hello.
20130704 14:43:14< fendrin> hi thunderstruck
20130704 14:43:37< thunderstruck> fendrin: I want to discuss some new WML features again.
20130704 14:43:42< thunderstruck> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SoC2013_thunderstruck_MP_Campaign_Support#WML_syntax_changes_for_multiplayer_campaigns
20130704 14:43:53< thunderstruck> Please look at "campaign_type" attribute.
20130704 14:44:24< thunderstruck> Do you agree with it? And do you agree that default should be "sp"?
20130704 14:46:25< fendrin> Yes and yes.
20130704 14:46:25< vultraz> thunderstruck: if it's any worth, i agree with it. However, it could be shortened to just type=
20130704 14:46:37< fendrin> indeed
20130704 14:46:59< thunderstruck> yes, that is better
20130704 14:47:39< thunderstruck> fendrin: So the follow up question: there will probably be some users who would like to be able to play SP campaigns even if they were not adjusted for MP.
20130704 14:48:28< thunderstruck> I think that we could add an option somewhere in the preferences to show SP campaings, as well. What do you think?
20130704 14:49:08< fendrin> hmmm
20130704 14:49:20< fendrin> I thought more about showing them when started with --debug.
20130704 14:50:24< thunderstruck> I was thinking about a checkbox in "Multiplayer" or at least "Advanced" in the main preferences.
20130704 14:50:32< thunderstruck> at least in advanced*
20130704 14:51:52< thunderstruck> 'Cause playing SP campaigns in MP is not what only advanced users could do.
20130704 14:55:32< fendrin> okay
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20130704 15:01:39< thunderstruck> fendrin: okay what? Multiplayer or Advanced?
20130704 15:03:14< fendrin> thunderstruck: You might have difficulties to add another checkbox into mulitplayer (at 800x480)
20130704 15:03:26< fendrin> thunderstruck: Thus advanced might be the better option.
20130704 15:04:21< thunderstruck> fendrin: I always forget about 800x480..
20130704 15:05:03< thunderstruck> fendrin: Although it seems that another checkbox would still fit in, if that is the question about the screen space.
20130704 15:05:46< fendrin> I wonder if the checkbox is not better placed inside the dialog itself.
20130704 15:08:53< thunderstruck> fendrin: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/36902762/low_res.png
20130704 15:09:15< thunderstruck> fendrin: I'm not sure where could I put it.
20130704 15:11:27< fendrin> switch to maps should be in the topbar
20130704 15:11:45< fendrin> together with "switch to singleplayer campaigns"
20130704 15:11:53< fendrin> switch to multiplayer campaigns
20130704 15:11:59< fendrin> switch to scenarios
20130704 15:14:01< thunderstruck> fendrin: that's an option, but I the convenient fast switch as it is now would be gone.
20130704 15:14:43< fendrin> fast switch?
20130704 15:14:56< fendrin> Why should the current one be faster?
20130704 15:15:05< thunderstruck> fendrin: to switch from maps/scenarios to campaigns now takes one click.
20130704 15:15:37< thunderstruck> fendrin: if we would do as you suggested it would take up to 3 clicks with a button and 2 clicks with a combo.
20130704 15:15:56< thunderstruck> plus move a mouse for the last one.
20130704 15:16:29< thunderstruck> s/last one/latter
20130704 15:25:29< fendrin> checkboxes?
20130704 15:26:33< fendrin> or better radio buttons
20130704 15:27:03< thunderstruck> fendrin: those are both good solutions
20130704 15:27:18< thunderstruck> but again I'm not sure how to squeeze everything in
20130704 15:28:16< thunderstruck> fendrin: what about not displaying description text box at all in very low resolutions?
20130704 15:28:28< thunderstruck> fendrin: none of the functionality would be lost
20130704 15:28:38< thunderstruck> fendrin: and plenty of space gained
20130704 15:30:58< fendrin> sorry
20130704 15:31:03< fendrin> have to go
20130704 15:31:07< fendrin> bye
20130704 15:31:27< thunderstruck> fendrin: no problem. see you later.
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20130704 16:13:11< thunderstruck> lipk: Hi. I was talking with a fendrin about scenarios/campaigns/map selection for mp and he proposed to add radio buttons instead of "Switch to" button.
20130704 16:13:57< lipk> thunderstruck: That could work, too.
20130704 16:14:07< thunderstruck> lipk: However, there is not really enough space for that.
20130704 16:14:28< thunderstruck> lipk: I was thinking about not displaying description text box for very low resolutions to allow space for radio buttons.
20130704 16:14:50< thunderstruck> lipk: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/36902762/low_res.png
20130704 16:14:59< thunderstruck> current mp::create state with fixed low res.
20130704 16:15:26< lipk> thunderstruck: I don't think that's a good idea.
20130704 16:15:38< thunderstruck> lipk: I thought so.
20130704 16:16:04< thunderstruck> lipk: Any ideas where to fit in those radio buttons?
20130704 16:16:06< lipk> I wouldn't give up a good feature for some marginal aesthetic gain.
20130704 16:19:17< lipk> thunderstruck: Maybe it could go where currently he button is, and if it's *really* bad on low-res, we could render it higher, in the same row as the "Create Game" label.
20130704 16:20:04< lipk> s/he/the
20130704 16:20:32< thunderstruck> lipk: that might be a good place.
20130704 16:21:34< thunderstruck> and "Maps/campaigns to play:" label would become unnecessary, so that would give a bit more extra space
20130704 16:21:45< lipk> Indeed.
20130704 16:23:30< thunderstruck> lipk: How were you planning to solve a problem that gui::menu doesn't have multiple selection? You can't use it for mods right now.
20130704 16:24:52< lipk> thunderstruck: I was planning to implement a new widget for that.
20130704 16:25:23< thunderstruck> lipk: I see. What about gui2:tlistbox?
20130704 16:25:57< lipk> thunderstruck: I'm not sure GUI2 widgets can be used in a GUI1 dialog.
20130704 16:26:10< lipk> In fact I'm quite sure that they can't.
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20130704 16:30:49< thunderstruck> lipk: I'm not sure if I could implement it in a reasonable amount of time.
20130704 16:31:17< thunderstruck> lipk: And it is, I think, the biggest obstacle to push my work to master.
20130704 16:34:01< lipk> thunderstruck: I also had a backup plan in case we'd need an urgent solution: adding a "toggle selection" button, and indicate selection with a change of colour on the item labels.
20130704 16:34:40< vultraz> thunderstruck: why do you need a "Number of Players" label under the image AND next to the slider?
20130704 16:34:44< lipk> thunderstruck: But in any case, you shouldn't have work with that, it's my messup.
20130704 16:35:19< thunderstruck> lipk: as an urgent solution it would be possible to just use that gui2 dialog again.
20130704 16:36:07< lipk> thunderstruck: Well, in fact, yes.
20130704 16:36:12< thunderstruck> vultraz: slider should work as a filter for Maps/Campaigns to play menu.
20130704 16:37:14< thunderstruck> lipk: ^ am I right?
20130704 16:37:51< lipk> thunderstruck: Perfectly.
20130704 16:38:23< vultraz> thunderstruck: not sure I understand
20130704 16:40:01< thunderstruck> vultraz: moving a slider sets a limit of number of players for games. So that those games won't be displayed in the list.
20130704 16:40:07< lipk> vultraz: With the slider, you'll be able to narrow the selection to maps with a certain number of sides.
20130704 16:40:14< vultraz> ahhh
20130704 16:40:23< vultraz> that's not really obvious, though...
20130704 16:40:26< vultraz> but whatever
20130704 16:41:13< vultraz> lipk, thunderstruck: if I may make another suggestion, how about removing the "Campaigns to play" label and "Switch to Maps" button, and instead have 2 toggle buttons, one for Maps, one for Campaigns
20130704 16:41:41< thunderstruck> vultraz, lipk: the problem I see with it, is that it would just set a max limit. But there would be users who would be interested only in e.g. 5+ players games.
20130704 16:42:52< thunderstruck> vultraz: I think I'll go for a radio buttons as fendrin suggested.
20130704 16:43:19< lipk> thunderstruck: I wanted it to set the exact number of players. 
20130704 16:43:25< thunderstruck> vultraz: the options would be: "Scenarios, Maps, Campaigns, SP Campaigns".
20130704 16:43:27< vultraz> (still not very sure of the difference between a radio button and a toggle button)
20130704 16:43:53< thunderstruck> only one button can be selected from radio buttons group.
20130704 16:44:12< vultraz> ah yeah, I meant radio then
20130704 16:44:40< thunderstruck> vultraz: maybe they are called toggle as well..
20130704 16:44:49< vultraz> thunderstruck: but where would you fit these 4 radio buttons?
20130704 16:45:31< thunderstruck> vultraz:  Maybe it could go where currently he button is, and if it's *really* bad on low-res, we could render it higher, in the same row as the "Create Game" label.
20130704 16:45:41< thunderstruck> I'm citing lipkab
20130704 16:46:13< vultraz> thunderstruck: why not do what the addons dialog does, and have a single button that opens a secondary dialog where you select your options?
20130704 16:46:36< vultraz> call it Advanced or something
20130704 16:47:09< thunderstruck> vultraz: hmmm.. I think that choosing the type of game should be easily done
20130704 16:47:48< lipk> thunderstruck: Well, in fact, we do have a combobox widget.
20130704 16:48:26< lipk> It has the size of a single button, and you can squeeze in as many options as you'd like.
20130704 16:48:59< thunderstruck> lipk: I know. But radio button = 1 click while combo = 2 clicks + mouse move.
20130704 16:49:27< lipk> *shrug* Well, okay.
20130704 16:50:13< thunderstruck> lipk: I guess I'm exaggerating :)
20130704 16:51:10< lipk> It would be interesting to calculate, though, that how much scrolling could we spare with the higher listbox that way :P
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20130704 16:52:25< vultraz> what would be really useful would be a tab bar...
20130704 16:52:35< vultraz> you could have the 4 options as tabs
20130704 16:52:58< thunderstruck> lipk: What I don't really like is that "Switch to" button now perfectly switches between scenarios and campaigns. And those two are most important there. Maps and SP campaigns are only secondary things.
20130704 16:54:02< thunderstruck> vultraz: there is something similar. e.g. Main preferences. But that takes lots of space.
20130704 16:54:20< vultraz> thunderstruck: will Eras and Mods be useless with SP campaigns>
20130704 16:54:22< vultraz> ?
20130704 16:54:30< lipk> thunderstruck: I have nothing against merging categories.
20130704 16:54:57< lipk> Especially "Maps" with "Scenarios".
20130704 16:55:24< vultraz> lipk: I see no reason why Maps can't be merged with Scenarios and SP Campaigns into Campaigns
20130704 16:55:42< lipk> Since the only difference between the two is that a scenario has WML code, while a map doesn't.
20130704 16:55:54< lipk> Which doesn't really matter to the player.
20130704 16:55:57< thunderstruck> vultraz: with mods, yes. But eras should work with them.
20130704 16:56:08< vultraz> thunderstruck: how?
20130704 16:57:11< thunderstruck> vultraz, lipk: to make things clear: by campaigns I meant the campaigns with [campaign] tag and "type" attribute set to "mp" or "hybrid". Look http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SoC2013_thunderstruck_MP_Campaign_Support#WML_syntax_changes_for_multiplayer_campaigns
20130704 16:57:39< thunderstruck> and by SP campaigns, with the type set to "sp", because that means they are not adjusted for MP.
20130704 16:58:34< lipk> It sounds reasonable to keep sp/mp campaigns separate, then.
20130704 16:59:02< thunderstruck> lipk: my idea was to put an option somewhere in main preferences to show SP campaigns next to MP.
20130704 16:59:49< thunderstruck> and stick with what we've currently got now.
20130704 17:00:19< vultraz> lipk, thunderstruck: BTW, I have an idea...dunno how difficult it would be to do, or even if it's feasible but... why not use this interface for a default "Game creation" screen. Selecting an SP campaign would load it as normal. Selecting MP content would connect you to the server, then present the "player join screen". You could still connect to the server interdependently, and create a...
20130704 17:00:21< vultraz> ...game from there
20130704 17:01:26< lipk> thunderstruck: So no radio buttons? Aren't we going in circles? :D
20130704 17:01:47< vultraz> Meaning this would replace the Campaigns and Multiplayer/Local Game dialog/option. However, the default section would be SP campaigns if you opened the dialog from outside the server, and MP content if opened from thelobby
20130704 17:01:55< thunderstruck> lipk: fendrin does not agree with me. I was trying to find a compromise :D
20130704 17:03:01< lipk> thunderstruck: It's very probable that not everyone will agree with you in everything.
20130704 17:03:17< lipk> thunderstruck: I think that both approaches are good enough.
20130704 17:03:24< vultraz> thereby having one dialog, just accessible in different ways
20130704 17:03:33< irker419> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master 0a3277100b91 / data/ai/micro_ais/ais/ (4 files): All MAIs: only define score/max_score in one place http://git.io/xgb85Q
20130704 17:03:48< vultraz> lipk, thunderstruck: is that even feasible?
20130704 17:04:49< lipk> vultraz: I guess it would meet quite some opposition.
20130704 17:05:18< vultraz> probably, as does any major change...
20130704 17:05:23< lipk> vultraz: And thunderstruck's GSoC project should not be wasted on political debates, so forget about that for now.
20130704 17:05:34< thunderstruck> lipk: that's right.
20130704 17:05:38< vultraz> Could it possibly be done after?
20130704 17:06:11< lipk> vultraz: Of course, along with the OpenGL renderer and the parallel WML preprocessor.
20130704 17:06:28< vultraz> the what and what?
20130704 17:06:42< vultraz> well I know of the former, but WTH is the latter
20130704 17:06:46< lipk> Heh heh.
20130704 17:07:17< thunderstruck> lipk: I might put this question of how to display mp games in the forums.
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20130704 17:07:43< lipk> thunderstruck: Sounds like a good idea.
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20130704 17:11:14< thunderstruck> Is UnitBox theme would going to be default sometime in the future or is it just an alternative?
20130704 17:12:27< vultraz> thunderstruck: AFAIK, it will become default once LordBob_, fabi, and finish throwing around ideas and it's completely functional
20130704 17:12:33< vultraz> fabi and I *
20130704 17:12:44< thunderstruck> cool
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20130704 17:13:16< vultraz> thunderstruck: also, question. what will happen to sp campaign icons?
20130704 17:13:51< thunderstruck> vultraz: nothing.
20130704 17:13:56< thunderstruck> What about them?
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20130704 17:14:06< vultraz> and since sp and mp campaigns can now be made the same way, mp campaigns will also now be able to have an icon. Will they be shown at higher reses?
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20130704 17:15:58< thunderstruck> vultraz: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/36902762/1.png
20130704 17:16:26< thunderstruck> vultraz: they are currently shown instead of a map in mp::create.
20130704 17:17:53< vultraz> thunderstruck: I meant the icons shown to the left of the campaign name in the Select Campaign dialog
20130704 17:18:08< thunderstruck> vultraz: ahh.. I was not planning to use them.
20130704 17:18:27< vultraz> I was thinking maybe they could be shown if the res is high enough
20130704 17:18:30< thunderstruck> vultraz: but if you have any ideas about them, please tell me.
20130704 17:18:57< vultraz> to the left of the campaign name, just as usual
20130704 17:19:06< vultraz> but removed on lower reses
20130704 17:19:46< thunderstruck> vultraz: I doubt if that is possible with gui::menu. And it would also take a lot of space.
20130704 17:23:57< vultraz_laptop> thunderstruck: doesn't the editor ToD list use gui::menu?
20130704 17:25:34< thunderstruck> vultraz: I think, yes. You're right.
20130704 17:26:18< thunderstruck> vultraz_laptop: I will note this and think about it later. Thanks.
20130704 17:37:42-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: current repo: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old (Please read the dev-ml for the latest status!) | 193 bugs, 334 feature requests, 27 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20130704 21:28:50< irker419> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master 2cd8dea7d941 / data/ai/micro_ais/ais/micro_ais_wml_tags.lua: [micro_ai] tag: simplify how CA id and eval/exec function names are set up http://git.io/318dkw
20130704 21:28:53< irker419> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master 9b8be208ed62 / data/ai/micro_ais/ais/ (mai_animals_engine.lua micro_ais_wml_tags.lua): All Animal MAIs: add optional ca_score parameter http://git.io/nU6E6w
20130704 21:28:54< irker419> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master f8e242d5ac41 / data/ai/micro_ais/ais/ (mai_guardian_engine.lua micro_ais_wml_tags.lua): All Guardian MAIs: add optional ca_score parameter http://git.io/QR7sXQ
20130704 21:28:56< irker419> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master c225c2a3e71e / data/ai/micro_ais/ (ais/mai_patrol_engine.lua ais/micro_ais_wml_tags.lua scenarios/patrols.cfg): Patrol MAI: add optional ca_score parameter http://git.io/KmYOdw
20130704 21:28:58< irker419> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master ff7a2590f4a6 / data/ai/micro_ais/ais/ (mai_recruit_engine.lua micro_ais_wml_tags.lua): Recruiting MAI: add optional ca_score parameter http://git.io/X1zvlw
20130704 21:29:00< irker419> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master 64b923f98f6c / data/ai/micro_ais/ais/ (mai_bottleneck_defense_engine.lua micro_ais_wml_tags.lua): Bottleneck MAI: add optional ca_score parameter http://git.io/UlqBMw
20130704 21:29:02< irker419> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master 5b5964c1e412 / data/ai/micro_ais/ais/ (mai_lurkers_engine.lua micro_ais_wml_tags.lua): Lurkers MAI: add optional ca_score parameter http://git.io/te01ow
20130704 21:29:04< irker419> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master 338d2f1f22e5 / data/ai/micro_ais/ais/micro_ais_wml_tags.lua: Healer support MAI: add comment about CA scores being hard-coded http://git.io/fIG0RA
20130704 21:29:06< irker419> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master 7242ed59bfcc / data/ai/micro_ais/ais/ (mai_protect_unit_engine.lua micro_ais_wml_tags.lua): Protect Unit MAI: slight adjustment of evaluation scores http://git.io/JnPpYw
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